Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 746 | Phil Encourages Jase After a Terrible Tragedy & How to Deal with Grief as a Christian

Episode Date: September 4, 2023

Jase turns another year older, but his heart is heavy after someone he knows suffers an extreme hardship. Phil, Al, and Kyle Thompson of the "Undaunted.Life" podcast offer encouragement to Jase in this tough situation and explore the ways that Christians grieve differently from non-believers. Al points out other interesting events that share Jase’s birthday, and Kyle assures us that the Gospel is powerful enough by itself without any modern adornment.  In this episode: Psalm 88; Luke 11, verses 37–54 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. It is a momentous day, Dad. We're recording on, I don't know when this releases, but we're recording a day on August the 16th, which is the day Elvis died. And so I thought we'd have a tribute to Elvis. And it's also Jason's birthday. What a lead in. now. Yeah, I haven't heard that yet. No, we mention it every year because it ruined when the day Elvis died on August 16th, 1977, I'll never forget it. It ruined Jace's birthday.

Jase was, let's see, eight years old that day. Yeah. And we had a party planned and all this stuff. And then everybody was so distraught because Elvis died basically the party. I hate to break it up every year, but since it comes up every year, I thought that was the I actually had... Chase's birthday. Happy birthday, Judge.

Thank you. That was quite the presentation. I wear the candles. Always the older brother. So I had an epiphany about my birthday, but I'm going to wait, you know, for you to get finished with your presentation. I do have a presentation. Oh, you got some other stuff? I do.

So... I'll tell you the epiphany post our presentation. That way, I'll see if you notice something that I had the epiphany about. Okay. this day. So it's August 16th. And so I thought we've never done this for on the podcast, it's Jason's birthday. And once you do get to a certain age, it's kind of like, you know, there's not as big a deal as it used to be. But I thought, I looked up and I was surprised because normally there's so many famous people that like you share a birthday with a lot of famous people.

But Jay's not a lot of famous people were born on your birthday. I mean, you're right up there with the famous people. Well, I will say this before you continue. the back when I used to be on social media, which was four or five years ago, so they might have corrected this. But somebody got it wrong. And I think... Oh, had your birthday wrong? Yeah. And so I think they still do, because yesterday, I got as many birthday wishes yesterday as I have today.

So they, so there's... That's funny. Media has, some of them have it 15. You're right, because when I search this, on August 16th. Your name did not come up. I just thought about that. There you go. That's why. So I will add one thing. So when you were born, Jace, our cousin, Chad, who is dad's older brother's son, was born the next day. His birthday is August 17th. And so I always, because I always think of Jason's birthday, so it reminds me to send Chad. He gets a happy birthday text when normally my cousins wouldn't because I don't remember when most of them were born, but it happened to be the day after Jace.

So Steve Correll, one of my favorite actors. He was in the office. He's done some funny movies. His birthday is today, so you share a birthday. Do you know who Steve Correll is? The black hair. My wife watches that shit. He was the main guy in my office.

Very funny man. Kind of a comedian. Comedian, yeah. James Cameron, who is a great director, directed Titanic. Aliens was probably my favorite movie he directed. The new ones, what are they called? Avatar. he's done them.

And Madonna. Really? Yeah. So you share a birthday with Madonna. I don't know if that's a good thing or you're a Madonna fam. I was a virgin when I got married. Maybe that song was about you, Dad. Dad, do you know who Madonna is?

Are you aware of Madonna? She's some blonde-headed chick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember what she looked like. She's had a few. She's had a few moral, moral issues through her. I don't know of anything she would star in that I would watch.

Probably not. Probably not. That's the problem when you go to the celebrity world to try to. Well, this is the only three I recognize. So far you haven't touched on the epiphany I have. Okay, good. So I also checked out some on this dates because sometimes your birthday happens to hit on something big. And again, eh, I mean, these were a few things.

The best of the list was in 1858, the first transatlantic telegraph was sent. So the first time they were able to communicate across continents was on Jason's birthday in 1858. You remember that, Phil? That's for my time. We thought you might have known about that. I haven't been around that long. Well, I always do that with Murray on our show. We'll find something, you know, be like 1857.

and we're going crazy. And I'm like, Murray, what was going on back then? And he was like, at first, he would always be. He always falls for it. And he's like, well, how old are you think I am? In 1898 on August 16th, the first patent for a loop-the-loop roller coaster was issued. Boy, that didn't, that didn't end well. 1898.

No, I just, I never. I don't know what that means. a loop to loop road the first roller coaster that went upside down the patent for that was 1898 on us yeah when I was in Nashville

which is pretty amazing you think about it because I worry about getting on one now I don't know about crawling on one back in before 19 somebody sent me a video a couple weeks ago of a

it was a roller coaster and every time the you know it would go across that something had broken at the top of it and you would see it moving and I mean they and it became a big news story and they were riding on it and it was just like I mean it could have just broken up at any time

yeah and I thought well it happens much more frequently you're paying to do this yeah when I was in Nashville the other day they right beside my son's house they were having a fair and so I had to drive by it because if you after a while I took notice because if they were entering the fair you would be stuck in traffic an hour and a half. Right. But I saw the loop to loop upside down. I thought, yep, they're still doing it, you know. I used to, so when the grandkids were really little, the last time I went to the fair,

because now we don't even tell them it's in town, because the kicker for me that made me question everything that's put together at the fair, and this may be unfair, but, you know, oh, well. I went into the restroom there at the Civic Center where the fair is here every year, because we used to go and we were kids, and it said, please do not bathe. And I knew that was for the people that were there setting up the fair. And I thought, you know, if you got to put that note up, I'm not sure that I want my grandkids on a ride that they put together.

Yeah. That's just my general road. So that was- It away, Al. You know, the carnies, I don't know. You got to remember, though, that whole industry, I mean, there's people making money from guessing weight. Yep.

And the yak lady. Yeah, I mean... He's got a horn growing out of her head, but she's a heck of a good cook. Is there a school, you know, for this? Marking for the Tilt of World. So in 1954, now, Dad, you were alive for that, right? Yep, born in 46. I was about nine years old.

Nine years old. The first issue of Sports Illustrated was published. One of my all-time favorite magazines until they got... I wouldn't have had an access to a magazine. You wouldn't have known. You wouldn't have even seen it. You're in the no magazine. What was life like before the printing press?

Log house, no telephone, no TV, no gas. No running water? No running water. You went and got it out of a bucket, just like Matt Dillon. Let the bucket down. That's why you watch it. It returns you to your childhood. Go and get some water.

Let me clarify for the audience, because we've had some confusion. That's Matt Dillon, the law officer, of the 1850s, not the actor, Matt Dill. Yeah, 1954, see, the first year, but it was a, it was, we didn't see anything like that. Yeah. Well, for the record, it was Eddie Matthews, who played for the Milwaukee Brewers, was on the cover, swinging a bat, so it was a baseball scene, the very first one. And the last one, Jay, so today, did you ever go to Dominican Republic on our trips down there?

No, my wife, I know Missy's been. Kids did. So today is a big national holiday in the Dominican Republic. And I thought you'd like this, Dad. The day is called Restoration Day. Well, which, by the way, the Dominican flag, the Dominican flag, because I've been several times, has a Bible on their national flag. Really? Yeah, which is impressive.

Good for that. When I spoke down there, I was like, you guys are impressing me. But the reason they call it Restoration Day is not really a spiritual thing. It's because there was a war in 1863 to 1865, and they restored their independence from Spain. So everybody's out of school. Touching. So there you go, Jay.

That's what I dug up for, on this day. Well, you miss something. In history. So you miss something. Okay, what I meant. So the epiphany I had was, and the way I came up with it, because we've been doing the grandparent thing this week, keeping our two grandkids.

And the girl is almost too, Maris. She still love you? I mean, she still... Oh, yeah, we bonded that. You're good now. I went reverse psychology, if you don't remember that podcast. Yeah, I remember that podcast. And I was like...

Just hoping it still... She's crying, the drama, you know, and I'm like, I don't care. And then she wanted some love from old J-Rock because there were no other options. So, and then we have the little one. David, he's seven, eight months. And typically like the second kid, he's just happy to be here. Not a problem whatsoever.

Couldn't get a word in edgewise. Anyway, because Mary, she's a talker. But anyway, there was a little bit of a drama there. And so I was, when I see that, I get the playlist out. And, you know, the one that really resonated with her was that happy, you know, happy, who's the guy that sings? Ferrell.

Farrell, you know, everybody happy. You have a Farrell hat. You wore it at Chaps Wedding. Yeah. And so, you know, Phil, they actually goes along where you're famous saying, everybody happy, happy, happy. Well, he did a song about, I don't think this is on your playlist, but you would like it.

You'd like the song. Rale basically sings a song about your slogan. Everybody happy, happy, happy. And I like it. They got a little gospel choir there. And so that song, but in my looking for that, no, because I was trying to find songs at work. That's how I deal with toddlers and little kids. And so I came up with one from your era, I feel, a little song called, what is the name of that song?

Going About the Country. It's by canned heat. I remember canned heat. Yeah, the guy had a real high-pitched voice. And he's like, going across the country. Oh, yeah, I know that. You know, look, you can't help but, you know, do a little. Yeah.

So anyway, I'm telling you this long story because they like that. I mean, his voice is unique. Of course, then when I got to researching about what happened to him, you know, he died like a year later, you know, in 1970, had drugs on him. So you remember, it was the hippie movement, Phil. In 1968's when that song came out. Oh, they formed in 1965 the year I was born. So that song came out in 68.

I think he died in 70. But what I... Going up the country. That's the next year. Going up the country. Canned heat. Do yourself a favor. It's not a spiritual song.

So don't look at the words too closely. There's a, well, there's a section in there. He's like, we're going to try to change the water into wine so we can drink the wine and get drunk. So it's kind of the opposite of what we're... Almost biblical. They were 90% biblical until they got to the broke part. So I tell you that to say, here's the epiphany.

So I realized when that, because they made a tribute, when the 50-year tribute to Woodstock, and I didn't realize this. And I'm surprised you didn't bring this up. But August 16th is the anniversary of Woodstock. Really? Yes. Why would that have not have come up on my research?

Could have. August 16th to 18. So here's what, here was my epiphany. So you got to remember when Woodstock happened, August 16th, 1969, that's the very day I was born. So what I've come to now realize is the Lord in his wisdom realized that the world needed a guy to do some ministry to the hippie world and to Elvis impersonators. That's why Elvis died on your birthday. Oh, Jace, that was the plan. I kind of thought that was funny, but, and somewhat true.

Yeah. Well, you taught me something new. I never knew there was a group called canned heat. So send me your hippies and send me your Elvis impersonators, and I will declare that Jesus is Lord. August 16th, a Jesus revolution led by Jace. I like it. So we've got a, we've got a, we got a.

special guest that we're going to bring in for a podcast today. Actually, the next couple of podcasts, and he's been with us before. And so is he playing along with where we're at and Luke? Are we going in a different? He is ready to rock. So we'll take a second when we come back. We'll tell you who's with us. All right. Welcome back. We have Kyle Thompson in the house. Welcome, Kyle, back to Unashamed Nation. Third time. I guess it's okay. I guess it's okay for me to be here. time. Was I here all the person? No, the first time you weren't here. So you heard a red-headed guy was coming in the studio and you're like, not on my watch. And then the next year, they just tricked you. They didn't tell you I was coming. So this is an annual event. Well, welcome

by. And this year, you're coming on Jason's birthday. I know. Isn't that exciting? I brought you presents and everything. I forgot the cake. We're working on it. So Kyle has a podcast called Undaunted Life and kind of a larger ministry as well. Kyle's from Oklahoma. Tell us a little bit about your ministry. essentially I feel like I was put on the planet to equip men to push back darkness. And so with our podcast and the content we create, it's to help men cultivate spiritual, mental, and physical resilience. We want them to be able to forge those things because, I mean, y'all, y'all talk about on the show all the time, but it's people love to get into all these complicated arguments and they like to philosophize and like to do all these different things. But it's like we're just muddying the waters, you know, around the gospel.

And so part of it is some Christians want to take themselves completely out of culture and just want to have to. have nothing to do with it. Well, you can't push back, you know, the darkness of culture if you're not in it. But also, you can't push it back if you don't recognize it. So we got a lot of Christians, you know, covering their eyes and plugging their ears. It's like, that's not going to work either. And so we know there are a lot of churches that aren't really going after the hearts of men. They're kind of catering to the women and children. And they're shocked when the men aren't there to do work when works, you know, needs to be done. And so we're just trying to, you know, move that pendulum a little bit for them. Well, and you guys, you started a new,

I guess what would you call a Bible study format that I love. And it's kind of like what we do here because you and some other guys going chapter by chapter in a book of the Bible. And you and I were talking last night about what an impact that's had on people not only that listen, but also even leaders. And, you know, it lets people know, you're in your late 30s, kind of what your audience is thinking like. Well, you didn't have to bring up how old I was, but, you know, that's okay. And I feel super old now. You're a lot younger than all of us. I will say this.

You're now the young buck on set. I told you this before we started because you said, boy, I get excited because you stand on a lot of your podcast. Every episode. And I said, well, when you get about 50, you're going to go sit out there on the porch like everybody else. I'll check in with you on my 50th birthday. We'll see if I'm still standing. He's got a high motor. It's me and send him to stay alive.

Well, on the show, it's called The Forging Table, and it's 100% inspired by U3 because I told you this last night. you know, because if you come on my show and you've got a book, I'm going to read your book. Like, it's the least I can do is to read every page of your book and really prepare for the interview. So last year I read 54 books for the podcast. And so these are, you know, 200 page books, and everything in between. And it hit me like a ton of bricks in December. I was like, wait a minute. I haven't read 53 chapters of the Bible this year. And I was like, because I was so focused on these books and trying to get this content. A lot of the books were Christian books, right? And so I'm, you know, hey, I'm kind of reading the Bible. Bible. And I was like, no, no, this is bad. Like, this is, this is completely out of whack. And so, you know, I kind of dialed down some of the interview stuff, which, you know, was hard to do. But then it's like, I had to do something to kind of bring myself to the scriptures. And I wanted to model to my audience, like, look, me and these three guys around my table, we don't have theology degrees. Like, we're not professional Christians. We're not pastors. But we're just guys that can read that are going to make mistakes. And we're going to kind of do that. And you mentioned that kind of being an inspiration to

pastors, you know, a good buddy of mine's Joe B. Martin of Church of 1122 out in Florida. And he loves the forging table. And I'm like, you know, kind of why? It's like, you know, spirit of disdiminishment a little bit. But he's just like, you guys keep reminding me of those 30 year old, 30-something year old guys with young kids that are like really fervent for the Lord and seeking his face and all that. It reminds me that I'm preaching to them too. And so I'm not just preaching to guys that in my age range or my parents' age range, it's those guys that are leaning forward that next generation that, you know, y'all kind of remind me what, what y'all are thinking and kind of how y'all are working through that. And so...

Oh, that's exciting. Well, and that's one of the blessings of our podcast. And there's a lot of young guys out there. I just appeared on some young guys' podcasts. And, you know, they just, they were inspired because the word has spoken to them through unashamed. And so they said, you know, we want to start our own podcast. It's going to help us. study more, you know, and get into the Word. And so I was on their podcast, and it was great. It was, they're young. They're just starting out. They're trying to figure it all out. But it was, you know, it's encouraging to know that, that we want people to get into the Word. It's interesting. You said that because, like Zach, who's usually here, I'm not sure where Zach is today.

Oh, he's got big meetings. He's a moose. He's got big meetings. Zach reads a lot of books, you know, outside of the Bible. And I mainly just stick, you know, with the Bible, primarily. but we it's amazing how and he'll tell you you know theologically we we agree on most I mean as in the 90 percentile of the way we think but he always says that and he was like how many you know or he'll he'll say won't you read this book or whatever and then he said oh I forgot who I was talking to him and so one time I got him because I said Zach I've actually read 66 books and he's like really

well can you give me a list of them and I was like sure And this is Exodus Levitin. Because Zach, as smart as he is, he's a little lacking in common sense, which therefore he's easy to play. But he's got big words, so he's got that going for. Yeah. So, well, you mentioned something about, you know, what y'all do with going through darkness. And I haven't shared this, but just the past few days, you know, I've been helping a family. My family has been reaching out.

And it's kind of one of these things that come to our doorsteps. when you put your faith forward in a public way. But we're in a section in Luke 11, where we finished up last podcast, the one that says in verse 33, no one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden or under a bowl.

Instead, he puts it on its stand so that those who come in may see the light. Your eyes, the lamp of your body, when your eyes are good, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are bad, your body also is full of darkness. See to it then that the light within you is not darkness. Therefore, if your whole body is full of light and no part of it dark, it will be completely lighted as when the light of the lamp shines on you.

Which I think we made the practical applications that everybody makes when we read this, Jesus is the light of the world. He's being confronted with people who are not looking to him as the son of God. And so, and their eyes, you know, are blinded in which we talked about that. But, you know, there's different kinds of darkness. And usually, especially, you know, in your podcast, which you talked about, most of it is we're living in a dark world. There are spiritual forces of evil. a lot of the darkness comes from our own sin or someone else's sin but the situation i've been

dealing with is more of a darkness of that it's really hard to figure out why this happened uh you know there's some tragedies in life and the one i'm dealing with was a car accident no fault of you know the mom who was driving two kids two their two two of their three kids lost their lives. And it's just like a darkness, you know, comes over everyone involved in these types of situations. And so in my prep, I was actually just looking for verses about this section. And I'll run across a sermon by Tim Keller and everybody knows who lists to our podcast. I'm a big Tim Keller fan. And he's literally speaking from the grave. But he did a sermon and he was actually in England when he did it and it was titled how to deal with dark times so when I read that I was like

oh my goodness that's right where you were yeah where you are yeah I mean I look I was I mean I am you know today I'm in the middle of this and it really it really brought me some peace and I know I don't you know it wasn't what Jesus was referring to here in the general aspect of the kingdom is coming the king is here I'm the king he's he's dealing with all this opposition, but there is a third category of life, and I think unbelievers use this against their being a God, because they're like, well, I mean, why would this happen, you know, what kind of tragedy? And so... Nothing really would challenge your faith more than this situation you're dealing with, right? I mean, exactly, because you're like, there's nothing you can say,

you know, and I realize that real quickly in this situation. There's, and these, and these you know the parents you know they're going to deal with this the rest of their life there's there there there's seemingly no way of you know resolving the situation you know we have a problem but it's almost unfixable in that they'll have to live with this the rest of their life i mean it's it's terrible but in that vein i thought we could bring up just a discussion because look this happens and uh you know you think what does the bible say about this And I strongly recommend if you've, you know, had a similar situation to go listen to that sermon. But, and I'll just give you the thumbnail version.

And y'all had no idea I was going to do this. So I know this is off the top of your head. But, you know, he had a really interesting, Keller had an interesting view on this. And what he said was, because he does a lot of lessons from the book of Psalms. You got 150 Psalms. and he said there was two psalms that my entire career i've avoided and they were psalm 88 and psalm 39 he said they're the only two psalms and i'm i'm going to read from 88 that there's really no no hope in the psalm it's all just dark and it's dark in a similar situation as to what I described.

You know, here you have a situation that happens in life where innocent children were killed and you're trying to figure out, well, why does this happen? And darkness envelopes everyone involved. And so if you turn over to Psalm 88, I'll read the first couple of verses. It says, oh, Lord, the God who saves me, day and night I cry out before you so instantly you realize that no matter what's fixed to be said here

he is crying out to the lord and it says may my prayer come before you turn your ear to my cry and if i skip down to verse six it says you have put me in the lowest pit in the darkest depths your wrath lies heavily upon me you have overwhelmed me with all your waves you have taken from me my closest friends and have made me repulsive to them i am confined and cannot escape my eyes are dim with grief i call to you lord every day i spread out my hands to you do you show your wonders to the dead do those who are dead rise up and praise you is your love declared in the grave your faithfulness in destruction you know question mark are your wonders known in the place of darkness or your righteous deeds in the land of oblivion. But I cry to you for help, Lord. In the morning my prayer comes before you.

While, Lord, do you reject me and hide your face from me? From my youth, I have been afflicted and close to death. I have suffered your terrors and am in despair. Your wrath has swept over me. Your tears have destroyed me all day long. They surround me like a flood. And they completely engulf me. You have taken my companions and loved ones from me, the darkness is my closest friend. And he made a point that in the Hebrew, the way it's worded, it ends with the word darkness.

It's like my closest friend is darkness. And so you're like waiting for the, well, where's the hope? What? Yeah, how does this, where's the happy ending? Yeah, so even when he was given the sermon, he said, look, this is a down. this this this is the valley and psalm 39 has a similar vibe to it and it ends the last verse of

psalm 39 is you hide your face from me and so i'm like well where where's the where's the good news here so he had he had four basic points that the first three i jotted down and the first one was darkness can last a long time even for a believing christian because here's a guy who's believing in the Lord, but you realize he's been going through this a long time. And then he had, there's no better place to lean on God's grace when these difficulties come. Because obviously death has happened, and you don't know all the details, but you realize this is something that is very terrible, and he feels like, you know, God has allowed

this to happen. And he made a good point in that when you look at the context and the reason I read the whole thing is you realize there's an exaggeration to this, to his heart in the prayer. Right. He's angry. He's upset. He's almost, you know, somewhere in Keller, Keller's word, he's in between blasphemy and, you know, his temperament being not in a good place. And so the third point is God's grace brings greatness from God. And so obviously, you know, his eyes are dim with grief.

And you see that there's an outward darkness that has enveloped him that was not really caused by him. But there's also an inward darkness that has developed because now he feels like God, you know, is against him and he's not, you know, compassionate. So, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. Then he had an illustration from a movie called The Princess Bride, which I haven't seen.

But when he said that, everybody kind of chuckled, I think, just to break the tension of the moment. But the line was life is pain, and anybody that sees it differently is trying to sell you something. And the reason he did that illustration is because he made a point that the reason he had avoided these two Psalms is because he just thought, well, this is not going to bring any hope to anybody. He read a quote from a guy Derek Kidner, and he said, this is when he turned around his viewpoint of these two Psalms. But it says, the presence of these prayers in scriptures is evidence of God's understanding.

And the point was, why would God allow this to be in the Bible? and he said that's when it hit me that in both these psalms it's a yes it's a prayer of anger yes it's frustration yes it's blaming god but the fact that he's listening and that this is in the bible is showing you his grace in that he understands that some things happen on the earth that are unexplainable that are terrible and he listened so then he wants went to the book of Job, which really was the place to go, because here you have a conversation of this, of Satan accusing, saying, the only reason Job is following you, because you're giving him everything. And so then we know what happens. The Lord allows the evil one to unleash on him.

And then Job's prayers were a lot like these two. Yeah. Frustration, anger. That's where I went to immediately in my mind when you were talking about it. And so he gets to the end of the end of of the prayer, I mean of the story of Job. And it says God honored Job, and he was proud. And so you think, wait, what? After all that, just unleashing? And the point while they're in here, and the point Job, you know,

was the first book written, even though it's in the middle of the Bible. It's considered the eldest book. Is that, you know, that's what the evil one does. He tries to get you to say, you know, the only reason, you know, because a relationship, if someone's loving you only for what you're getting out of it,

well, that's not. I mean, how do you feel if someone, you realize when you were, have been used in life? The only reason somebody's loving you is because they want something from you. So we know what happened, but it's that even as difficult as it was, they were still praying to God.

And it may last a very long time. And so he summed it up by going to Jesus because he said, yeah, you know, bad things happen. But when you look at who Jesus is, he's better than you. You know, his life was better. His character was better. And what happened? God chose for Jesus to live his life, to be tortured, to be crucified,

and you see what happens. And he used those same two references where Jesus was on the cross. And you remember from 6 o'clock to 9 o'clock, darkness came over the land. And he looked up and said, my God. my God, why have you forsaken me or like Psalm 39? Why have you hidden your face from me? And so it was really moving. It's what I needed to hear.

But I just wanted to bring it up because there is darkness that comes from just living on a planet. And there is a spiritual war. And there are evil forces. And things do happen. But I think these are here for a reason because we know what Jesus conquered on a cross for our sins. and with an empty grave, that in the end, we know if you hang in there and you appeal to God, as frustrated as you are, he does make great things happen in the end. And it's also hard, Jays, to, it's hard to communicate inside the shadow, I would call it a shadow,

what you're describing, because it's not forever darkness, but in the moment of being in it, it feels like it. And I love that you brought that up about the crucifixion because that was a season, right? That was three hours out of this entire time. And of course, he overcame because he died and was resurrected. But it's hard when someone is in that shadow of darkness and going through what they're going through to convince them of something on the other side. And we've all lived that, right? Well, we've been there. Let's go back to verse 34 of Luke 11. Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eye is healthy, your whole body is full of light. But when it is bad, your body is full of darkness.

So in that, the problem is not the lack of light. It's your perception of the light. Yeah. And so you brought this up. You know, a lot of non-Christians will love to use that as a club. They use a tragedy, a natural disaster, a death of a child, the sickness of a child to be like, how could a good God possibly allow that type of evil? Now, inherent is their question is the, there's a moral law, right?

How do you know that that's even evil? Well, because there's a moral law that that God gave to us in the Bible. But if we just even skip right over that, it's like you have to be so arrogant as to assume that no good can be created from this dark situation. It's in, I guess it's an overconfidence in the power of the darkness and a complete diminishment of the power of the light. And that's the difference. And it's easy to say when you're not in the middle of it like you and that family are right now. It's very, very easy to say. but the ending of the story is the same because when you go into the Psalms there's different Psalms

I was reminded of Psalm 40 you know Psalm 40 has some Thanksgiving in it it's got you know quite a bit of Thanksgiving but then it turns into lamentation and then it gets into the goal of the lament which is Psalm 40 verse 16 but may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you may those who love your salvation say continually great is the Lord so and we all know how important it is when you see someone get up at a funeral and deliver, you know, a eulogy without cracking, you know how powerful that is because in spite of everything they're going through, watching them just be basically an oak in that moment and pointing to God and say, it's not me, but it's him.

Like, it's incredibly powerful. Yeah, it really is. And I think you hit on a good point. You know, I think we as Christians think, oh, if I become a Christian, nothing bad's ever going to happen to me. And to go back to the point about the eyes, our expectations are that, which I'm not sure where we're getting that,

but that's where the problem comes in because most of our suffering and trouble dealing with darkness is because our expectations were a bit too lofty. I mean, you got to remember, we were saved by an act that God did based on his love, that was very difficult to wrap your head around. I mean, he was tortured. He was spat upon it because part of us, we just, we really do want him just to say,

hey, let me show you who I really am here. But we realize that God used that. So, I mean, I agree with you. I think our expectations are way too high in that, oh, we're Christians, nothing bad's ever going to happen. I mean, most of these guys, the New Testament writers, they all died, grew some deaths. Right.

And, uh, What's the expectations for us are too high and the expectations of the gospel are too low? Like Al and I were talking this morning at breakfast to where it's like, you have these ministries that they try to make the gospel seem sweeter. And I told him about there was something that Voddy Bakum talked about in a sermon where there was a father walking his son through a strawberry field and the son's pulling strawberries off and eating them and he loves them. But then his father starts giving him, you know, artificially flavored strawberry stuff. So strawberry slushy, strawberry soda, pop tarts. And over time, the son's taste changed to appreciate that. And so when he went back to the strawberry field and picked a strawberry and ate it,

he didn't like the taste of the real thing because he had fallen in love with the artificial. And I feel like, you know, we do that with the gospel to where it's like, we don't think the gospel can stand on its own. So we're going to be so smart or we're going to be so funny or we're going to build these big sets at our church. We're going to do these big light shows. We're going to do all that. you know, that in and of itself is not wrong, but it's like, you realize you don't have to anything to the gospel?

This isn't gospel plus. Yeah. Like, you don't need gospel plus anything. Like, that's when you go back to Paul rebuking Peter in, was that first or second Timothy, or no, Galatians. When he's rebuking him in public, it was because they were trying to add stuff to the gospel. It's like there's no addition needed. Just preach and spread the gospel.

No, you're right. That's the problem with these like prosperity gospels and all. And, boy, you come to Jesus, and everything is going to be gold roads and rainbows on the earth. You know, one of the strongest points from that sermon days that I took, I love the thought, because I wasn't really aware of these Psalms, and that's probably why. Because if you hadn't heard a lot of lessons about Psalm 88. Look, I was incredibly moved that here's a guy who, you know, he doesn't consider himself a scholar or anything. He's a practitioner, as he says.

But he's like, I realize I had a problem. problem because I didn't understand it. And he said, I didn't understand it because the same thing we're talking about, he was a victim of. He's like, that doesn't fit my narrative of what I want to. I want to uplift people. But even Jesus, you know, when we were in Luke 6, it was very depressing when he said, you know, let me tell you what the kingdom is like.

Blessed are you when you're poor and you're in tears and your mourning and you're being persecuted and you're like, wait, what? Because all the sermons that you hear about the sermon on the mouth, they always use Matthew's version because it's not quite as depressing as Luke's version. Right. Because it really is. I mean, he's just being honest. And when you factor in all the verses of they'll be trouble, you're going to have trouble.

You know, John 16. They're going to hate you just like they hated me. I mean, it wasn't like he wasn't telling us that you're going to be persecuted. Things are going to be difficult. Well, bad things are going to happen. And I really feel like the reason they're in there is that what gives us hope is these guys, look, they went to God in their frustration. That is a key. And look, when you think about this story that he shared, and it says the title of, you know, in the Psalm who shared that,

Did you ever think that when he was writing this psalm down this prayer, that God would use this for, what has it been, 2,500 years since that was written? Yeah. To help people 2,500 years later who are trying to figure out why am I so frustrated and why I'm like? That it would speak into the heart and lives of those who are trying to lift them up. You know, in your same situation, Jays, I've been sending some text to people who are surrounding this family. and my prayer for them, obviously we're praying for the family having to do with it, but my prayer for the support people is that you help hold people out of the abyss. That's the way I put it.

In other words, I've walked enough grief situations with families through the years to realize they're at the abyss in their minds, in the moment, because the darkness is so heavy and so real, they can't imagine how can I live when someone I love so much is not living, and this was tragically taken away. And so you're trying to hold them back from the abyss with just a glimmer of hope that there is something more and that this will have meaning at some point. So you're trying to help them see past this shadow, which is why I love the point about, it's a great point that God allowed these songs to be there. It reminded me of the old Elton John song. They're sad songs.

The reason there are sad songs is that people are sad. Yeah. And so you do need that across the gap. We'd all rather sing Pharrell and be happy all the time. but the truth of life is it's not always happy. And that's why the Psalms are so comforting, because if you read through the Psalms, even in your own life, and we all have tragedy,

it's hard to find yourself in a more tragic place than what you'll find in the Psalms and also a more elated place than you'll find in the Psalms as well because he's got all of it. And sometimes in the same Psalm, there will be lamentation and Thanksgiving. And it's just, it's like if David could do that, and we know the stories of David, right?

Very famous. But if you can look at it and then put that through your life and your experiences through the lens of what he went through and the truth of what we see in the gospel presentation is still there even in, even in the darkness. Like that's the message. Yeah, there's a reason why even unbelievers will hold up the work of the Psalms as one of the greatest literary collections of all times. Even people don't believe in God. They'll read the 150 Psalms and say, wow. it's truly amazing. I think this is one of...

It's why Psalm 51 has always been one of my personal favorites is because in David's situation, coming right out of his final recognition of his sinfulness, you see both in there. That is both a sad and uplifting song because in the Psalm, he gives you how the depth of where he's at,

but then he also realizes he has a pathway out and the pathway is God. He can be saved. And again, we talk. talked about that. He was another of the old covenant. He should have been killed for what he did under law, but he wasn't and because of God's grace. So that's one of the rare sounds where you actually see both. You see that both the valley in the darkness and the light. Well, it's interesting you bring that up because like Psalm 88, you know, in verse 15, when he said,

even from my youth, have I been affected close to death? It's almost like David's in 50 and 51. where he's so distraught. Remember when David said, surely I was sinful at birth. Yeah, even when I was conceived. You see their, you know, exaggeration. Yeah, hyperbo. Well, you've never been with me.

Yeah. Because you're in such a dark place that it just, you know, it's overwhelming. And you're overwhelmed and you're crying out to God, which is, I think, God administering his grace in the lowest of lows. He's understanding and he's listening. And ultimately, to your point about the guy standing up who's like an oak,

I think that's what really the greatness that God uses is that, you know, through these bad times and his grace, is that when we respond in ways that the world can't even imagine, that is when they see the power of God. Because deep down, we know, I mean, 100%, I know, you know, when a kid dies, I am 100% sure. They'll be in heaven forever. It's incentive to see them again.

And so we know that and we believe that and we trust God, but at the end of the day, we know there's a God and we're not Him, and we are perishable, and we are sinful. We do live in a sinful world. But really big picture-wise, what Jesus was bringing would change the course of the world in history and the future because of these guarantees that we have in him. About the word of God, we have no chance. There's nothing.

There's no hope at all, and I know we're about to wrap, but it doesn't have to be a big thing either. So when people see a movement or a strength of God, because last year my cousin, his police officer, was killed in the line of duty, and his wife, you know, my first cousin, I didn't know she was going to deliver the eulgy, but she gets up to go on stage to deliver the eulogy. And I basically fall apart because I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe she's going to do this. There's no way she's going to hold together. And the level of poise and strength she showed delivering the eulogy for her high school sweetheart was astonishing. And that by itself would have been enough of a description of strength.

But when she walked off stage and nobody really noticed because unless you were sitting down in front, you probably didn't notice, but his caskis right out there, right in front. And as she walks back to her seat, she just runs her hand along the side of the casket and takes her seat, never cracked, voice didn't crack, not a single tear, not the tears are bad or emotions are bad, but she can't get through that without divine appointment and divine help. And God was able to show tremendous his strength and his love through her strength and her obedience. It was incredible.

Which was a lot like when you did Kathy's funeral, our friend who died of cancer, 50 years old, had a really hard, difficult life. And, you know, just from our perspective, just way too early. But, you know, her son got up and spoke at her funeral. And I was like you. I thought, oh, man, this is, I was thinking. I was standing right beside him, but I, because I thought. I was thinking this is going to be terrible because this poor kid, his mom has died,

and he's only in his 20s. And he was phenomenal. I mean, the faith. But he had, he, his words, and Jay's did a great job, but this kid's words spoke as much to her life and what she'd invested in him and his sister than anything I could have ever heard. And you're right, it was the only divine strength that was able to hold him up in that moment because otherwise it wouldn't happen. No, you're right. Look, that was one of the darkest moments in my life, not from sin but just in the context of what we're talking about having to stand up. And here's this.

Because on her deathbed she asked you to. Yeah, and here's the, yeah, she did. And she was literally minutes away from death. And she died after, you know, she asked me. She said, I'm staying alive to ask you. I mean, that's how she put it. She said, I've willed myself to stay alive with God's help, you know, to ask you to get up and share Jesus at my funeral because I've, I've given my whole life to get my kids in heaven.

Yeah. Younger or older, physical death comes to all. Yeah, you're right. It's the darkness we all face. It's a problem that's been conquered by the resurrection of Jesus. But other than that, there is no other way out. That's right. Now, you're right.

The victory's in Jesus. The evil one is defeated when we go to God even in our darkest moments, and that is the light that cannot be shut out. You can't put it under a bowl. So we're out of time. man, that's rich stuff. So I want to talk a little bit more about in overtime, especially we want to get into a little bit of the Joe,

which we didn't get a chance to talk about, which is really rich out of that sermon. So follow us over to overtime, blaishtycTV.com slash Unashamed, and then we're going to continue this discussion. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube

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