Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 757 | Missy Forces Jase to Watch ‘The Sound of Music’ & Phil Fights Off a Herd of Cows

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

Jase is inspired by Al’s trip to Wyoming to figure out what to do during a bear encounter, while Phil and his butler become literal cowboys out of necessity. Jase reveals the ultimatum he was issued by Missy during their first few dates, which resulted in his reluctant viewing of a classic musical. The guys discuss the idea that bad things can happen to good people and it doesn’t always mean they’re being punished or tested.  In this episode: Luke 12, verses 49–59, Psalm 5; Hebrews 10, verse 14 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed podcast. We're inside a week now, Zach, for the movie release, which is exciting. Six days. Yes. It's the 22nd. The movie comes out on the 28th.

Yeah. Wow. Inside a week. So get your tickets. It's been a grind to get here. That's for sure. No, we're super excited about it. It's going to be great.

Right. And just a reminder, Unashamed Nation, you guys are going to be the drivers of this thing. So be sure not only go see it, but then talk about it, get others to go. Yeah, get your tickets now, though. You can get them at our website, theblindmovie.com. And then it has a tab on there that you'll click, get tickets pretty self-explanatory. And you can put your zip code in or your city. And it'll pop up wherever it's at near you. So I think we're sitting around 1,700 theaters maybe. something like that, maybe a little more. So yeah, jump in there and get them while you can. Six days. Very impactful. The movie is amazing story of hope, I think, would be the word I would use to describe it, but really, really good.

So, Jay's, because of your scheduling for your other show that you're doing, your treasure show, we wind up getting a few days off, Dad and I did. And so I took my time while you were filming to go to Wyoming because my thought process, one is you had just been there. So you were telling me about how pretty it was there. And I'd never been. And so I wanted to get out of the, at that time, 108 degree Louisiana temperatures. So when I left DFW, we flew out of Dallas.

When I left DFW, is Lisa and I and her two oldest granddaughters. and then Joey. Because now I'm at the stage, Zach, where when you travel, you have to take along the hairy-legged boyfriends as well, or the girls don't want to go. And so we went to Wyoming. And so I left, it was 11, 11, 11 degrees at the DFW airport. When I landed in Jackson, Wyoming, it was 56 degrees with a light rain falling. I mean, and at the airport in Jackson's like at Hawaii, when you get there, you walk outside of the plane.

You walk down the outside step. So I just stood there. I was like the guy in Shawshank Redemption with my hands out, just stood there in this nice, cool rain. I just imagine what I had escaped to get there. And we spent a week up there. And it was really interesting because, you know, that's like real cowboys are there. And we saw a little bit of that. But then there's like tourists mostly.

So you have a lot of fake cowboy stuff going on for tourists like me. I don't know anything about cowboy, but you go and you do these experiences where they're trying to make you seem like a cowboy. So we loaded up one of these things we did. We went to a hoot-nanny deal out in the middle of nowhere. We got on these covered wagons with two horses pulling us. And so then there's these kids like college-age kids riding around us horses. They're all used to horses. They're acting like their outlaws and bandits and they're

shooting at one another, you know, with blanks and stuff. So the whole idea is it's like trying to give you a little taste of what it would have been like back in the, you know, 1880s or whatever, whenever people were coming across there and covered wagons. What was ironic was when I got there to the hoot-nanny because they had a big, they sang Western songs and, you know, we had the meals out of the Dutch ovens and all this stuff. And it was great. It was a great experience. and I was on the phone with Dan trying to line up some stuff for dad. So I'm a fake cowboy at a, you know, a fake setting because it's not real cowboys as me. And then Dan told me he was moving cows, dad, off your property.

And so I just found it interesting that while I was being a fake cowboy, Dan, your sidekick, your right-hand man, was actually doing real cowboying on our hunting property. and they were out. Some cows got loose on your land. What was the story there? And then he had to go and get them off the property. Well, they tore the fence down. And it was somewhat of a stampede, 20 to 30 head.

So they was eating all the stuff we feeding the deer. The cows have moved in. So I don't know whether we're going to have a lot of good fat beef this year. Maybe it's deer, deer beef, deer meat. Well, I just found it fascinating that I'm on the phone with Dan. He said, I'm moving cows. I said, moving cows. He said, yeah, they're loose on the property.

We have four wheelers, not horses. Yeah, he said they had four wheelers. But the problem was the four wheelers were scaring the cows. Yeah. So then he said we had to turn the four wheelers off and just hand walking back. I said, with dad, you actually are a real cowboy. You're doing real cowboy work. you're mending fences, you're taking cows off the property.

So I just thought it was funny that I escaped the heat to go to Wyoming. And then back home, Dan is actually doing real cowboy work. Well, I did notice when I was in Wyoming that they did use horses to herd the cows, but they also used four wheelers. I saw the ranchers out there. Oh, yeah. I noticed they used the four wheelers on the horses. When the horses got out of where they were supposed to be, they'd take off on them

forward. Oh, boy, cowboying has taken a whole. It's modernized. Yeah. I tell you what, I saw every, all the big animals that are up there. I saw them all up close because they've gotten so used to people. You just drive around. But when you're right next to an American bison, I mean, that's quite the beast. That's quite the animal that the Almighty made right there. I'm going to tell you right now. Of course, you know, normally you'd kind of be afraid of being so close for him, but like I said, he just stood there and was eating grass. He didn't even pay any attention to me. But we were close enough.

Until he does. You shouldn't have been there. Until he does. Yeah. You don't want to get out of your car. You got to be careful. I just read a story. Deer Hunter gets a, I think he got attacked in Montana. No, it was Utah.

Man in Utah recovered, recovering after he was mauled by a grizzly bear. Oh, yeah. You don't want to get too close to the grizzlies. Oh, I saw some. some idiots, man. They were black. I never saw a grisly, but I saw a big black bear, and like these people are running right up to it and taking pictures.

And I'm sitting over there across the street in the car, and I'm thinking, you crazy people, that's still a wild animal. Like, I know it's out here just walking around by the road, but they're acting like they're at the zoo, you know? Well, the black bear is not as dangerous as the grizzly. But this, I mean, this guy shot the bear and the bear still, like, came after him. I mean, I don't know what he had to shoot him, but probably a 45 caliber or something,

but large caliber pistol or whatever, that's what they take out there. But he shoots the bear, and the bear is still attacking him. Yeah. That's scary. Yeah. These are huge.

Did he live to tell about it? I don't know if he's told about it yet, but it says he's recovering. Well, what's sad is when he recovers, they're probably going to put him in jail for shooting the bear. That's where we're at in our culture. I mean, I told you when they disperse those black bears, which I've talked about this before,

go back a hundred podcasts. You know, they sent everyone landowners, like the 10 things you do when you encounter the bear. And if you want a good laugh, look that up and read it. Make yourself big. Make yourself big. And hopefully you won't die.

That's the gif. That's the gist of it. You can't run. You can't shoot him. You can't, you just die. Just make yourself big. Make yourself look bigger than you are, and hopefully you won't die. That's what I learned from that.

Well, if you're in Black Mountain where I live, someone told me this, I don't know if this is true or not, but somebody told me that we have the highest per capita bear to human ratio of anywhere in the country, black bear. So we got some bears. There's a lot of them up there. And there's a lot. I see them every day. They're the biggest danger to trash cans in your county.

Yeah, they're like big rack. Coons. I mean, they're really just a, they just get in the trash and they just, I mean, they're nasty, nasty creatures. Well, maybe you should move. That's right. So Carly and Joey were hiking. They took a ski lift up and height back down the mountain that was behind their house. And they came upon two bear cubs, which is probably the most dangerous situation you can come upon because there's a mama somewhere nearby. And sure enough, they were just taking. taking pictures. And they weren't super close, but they were close. And then all of a sudden, that mama come charging out of a stream. But Jace, they didn't follow the protocol because Carly says she turned and ran as fast as she could. She figured if she could outrun Joey, she was good to go. But they took off. But we had a great time. I went to the top of this mountain that was behind her house. And it's beautiful. And you get a look at the whole Jackson

Hole was just that whole valley. And we get up to the top. And a woman comes over to me and she says, are you, are you Al Robertson from Unashamed? And I said, yeah, I am. And she said, well, you know, we listen to the podcast. We love it. And she was from Chattanooga, Tennessee. And then she kind of teared up. And she said, would, would you pray with me? I just buried my son last week. And I said, I'm so sorry for your loss. And so I said, sure, I'd pray for it. And so her husband came over and he didn't recognize him right at first. And she said, you know, it's a It's Al from Duck Dynasty. And so we just stood there holding hands 11,000 feet above the sea level and prayed for them and for their loss and what they were going with.

And so Zach, it was just another reminder to me about the reach of Unashamed Nation. Here I was as far away from home as I could be and as high from the sea level as I could get. And yet still you have an opportunity to share ministry with some of our understanding. shame nation, which was really cool. So I think her name was Tammy, but I can't remember for sure, but I hope you're doing well if you're listening and I was still praying for you and your family and what you guys have been going through. I was just reading this stupid article from CNN on the best strategies to survive an encounter

with a bear. Do you say make yourself big? No, it says the best strategy is to never get in harm's way. don't provoke the wild bear and don't offer him food or beverages. This is for real. I'm reading this in living time. And first of all, keep your distance if you happen on a bear. Give it plenty of room to walk away from you.

Then look, the next paragraph, you can run a foul of the law as well as the bears if you get too close and you may end up paying a fine. So they're going to fine you. Their logic is if you get too close, you may have to pay a fine. If you live to pay it. Well, no, that doesn't say that. Other tips, talk calmly to yourself

during the encounter in low tones to identify yourself as a human. I'm reading this. To identify yourself. Yeah. It's better to walk with a group and keep yourself from being smelly or nosy when you're in these packs. So I guess wear deodorant and go with people. If you have a small child or dog, pick it up.

This is during the encounter. Don't just, okay. Great point there. Don't put yourself between cubs and the mother. Avoid direct eye contact and move away slowly sideways if possible. Almost all encounters are peaceful. Remember that. So be positive.

It's going to be great. If the bear starts making assertive moves in your direction, stand your ground with the bear. Now make loud noises by yelling, banging pots and pans, or using an air horn to scare bears. Oh, hang on. Let me get this air horn out of my pouch. Or the pots and pans I brought with me. And mind you, I didn't read this beforehand.

I'm literally reading this in time. So I don't know how this is going to end. Make yourself look as large as possible. Okay, we brought that one up. If you're with other people, stay together. Terrible idea. I would go to the back. They don't put that in there.

So what if the bear actually is about to attack? In the rarest of situations, you've attracted the bear's attention. It didn't move off. It's coming aggressively. Next, lay down and assume the fetal position. In other words, turn yourself into lunch. You go from standing your ground to a baby. To go in into the fetal position.

That's what you need to do. Look, throw things, if available, throw things not at the bear, but near it. Yeah, because you're telling the black bear that you're intimidating. dating him. Let it know you are a big person. Pick something up, yell, and if it attacks, fight back. Aim for the face. So that's basically it.

They left out good luck. I feed a lot better after hearing it. Yeah. That too, man. Then they actually close with saying, you only fight as a, and they put in quotations, as your Hail Mary pass.

So that's your Hail Mary, is you're going to get into a fist, with a bear. I mean, this is where we're at in our I don't know what to do. What I say is I would preach the gospel to whoever wrote that. I would at least then include.

I thought you're going to say preach the gospel to the bears. Maybe you could convert it. No, preach of God was the person who wrote that because then they could add at least if you had the Holy Spirit of God, you'd be resurrected. After reading that article, they're basically just saying you're going to die. Yeah, you've got to be a snack.

And I just, I think I'd rather just die and not look like an idiot while dying. Yeah. You don't want to be the story. Yeah, he was in the fetal position. God rest his own. That's what it said. And look, somehow I knew it was going to be something like that because I just know how the world thinks. They just, they're not used to the outdoors, you know.

Oh, man. Anyway, I'm depressing. I'm glad I didn't have any. We did have some bare encounters, but nothing bad. So we had a good time. Wyoming's beautiful, by the way, those of you, anybody listening from up there, you guys live in a beautiful place. All right.

So we're hitting Luke 13 today. I feel like we did as well as we could on Luke 12, which is a really kind of a difficult passage to all together. But I thought we laid it out pretty well. There was one thing I didn't mention that I wanted, that I didn't get to in my notes. There was a sermon from Chuck Swindall, who's a guy that I read and like to get his ideas on stuff when we study him.

I thought it was really good about this section in 12, about possessions and all that. And he says, here was his three points. When you're blessed with much, give generously, because you talked about the man who had all the possessions. When you plan for the future, fake terminally. In other words, you know, you're not going to be around. So you've got to think about the next level. And then the third one, which was really good, when you have much or little, hold it loosely.

Because you never know, you know, when the Lord's going to take it away or what he's going to do with it. So I thought it was pretty good three-point sermon from this idea about what's most important. Yeah. And, I mean, really, it's about who's in control of this. I mean, just to sum up, you know, if you're just joining. and they missed the context of that Luke 12. You know, I read this passage in Proverbs 21, 30, that says there's no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the Lord.

And I also read the passage in 2nd, Corinthians 13, 8, which we kind of all agree was very inspiring in the context of the kingdom versus any other kingdom. 2ndthians 138 says for we cannot do anything against the truth but only for the truth and so when you look at how kingdoms are made on the earth they have money

you know power you know military I mean whatever makes the great kingdoms of our earth which I guess those three things authority, yeah. Yeah, authority. Then inside those things, it creates, what, success and economies and personal wealth and little individual kingdoms.

And so you really, you tap in that and you see what Jesus is fixing to attack here are these people who are putting their confidence in what they can do and their money and their power. and their success and their fame. And so when you cut to the chase and go to the end, well, all that stuff fades out. Yeah. And so part of the accusation against Jesus comes up here, because I'm sure, look, these things he's throwing out there are making people angry,

especially people with money or who feel justified by their own righteousness. And I don't know who said this, but, you know, the human heart default setting is kind of self-salvation. And so you enter a very non-preached-owned section of scripture, the end of chapter 12 and especially the first few verses of chapter 13. But I heard a fantastic sermon from Tim Keller called Falling Towers. and he did that before the Twin Towers fell in New York from the hands of terrorists. And it was so strange to listen to. So if you look that up and listen to, keep in mind that, because he would have had to have said something about it,

because we actually have a story in Chapter 13 that Jesus brings up about a tower falling on people and kill them. And I'll read it. It says, now there were some present at the time. that time. And so I'm assuming part of this crowd, and you talked about interpreting the times that was at the end of chapter 12. And so they bring up some interpretation of the times, which is why do bad things happen to people? So they told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood pilot had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus. Which is an interesting phrase. How

how that was put. I mean, he didn't say they were massacred. They were slaughtered. You know, it was an interesting way to put that. Their blood was mixed with their, he was letting them know they were doing something good. They were making sacrifices and they got slaughtered. I just found it interesting that phrase. No, you're right.

Yeah, you're right. You know, and to save y'all time, you can do the research on your own. But from everything I read, it was basically people worshiping God. who were slaughtered at the hands of Pilate. Right. And said, you want some sacrifices? I'll give you some sacrifices. Exactly.

And he killed him. Yeah. And Josephus had recorded several times that had happened during Pilots. Yeah, not this exact thing, but things like it. You know, so he was, probably capable of doing that. So then Jesus answered, now this is a very, you know, I'm not going to sugarcoat this. This is going to be a deep.

discussion. So they say, you know, they bring up this point about why did these people get killed for worshiping. And Jesus answered, do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? So that's a profound question. So now you can almost read in between the lines. they're like, well, why do the, where's God in this?

Why did these people who were worshipping, you know, their God? Why did the God that you claim to be allow this to happen? It's a valid question. Yeah. And so then. And their answer, Jace, would have actually been, yes. He didn't give them a chance to answer, but they did think that they were worse because they're That's the implication.

Which is the implication. Hang on. Hang on. Before you read that, let's take another break. So then Jesus, in his own way, if you're ever doubting Jesus answering something in a way that you would never conceive, imagine. Jesus is answering verse three is quite the response, and it will literally take us an hour to figure out what in the world is he talking about. So we asked this question. let me back up again,

do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? And Al's right, he realized, the only reason he's asking this question is because like the culture of that day, we even to this day think, if something bad happens to you, that means you must have been doing something bad.

There's a reason for it. And in the same way, if something is good, is happening to you, then you must be doing something good. It's the reverse of the prosperity gospel. The prosperity gospel is you have enough faith, and then you're rewarded based on the amount of faith that you have with health, wealth, and prosperity. This is the opposite of that. This is you didn't, you sin.

You had something going on. And so this punishment is now coming on you as a way of, almost like an intentional karma that's directed by God. Well, it's not the opposite. It's the same philosophy. Just one's negative and one's positive. I mean, they believe the same thing. Yeah.

You'll be rewarded for doing something good and you'll be punished for doing something bad. And I'm just telling you right now, if you believe that, that's a lot. That's what. He's fixing to take that argument. And be grateful that that's a lie because, if, because at the end of the day, we'd all be in trouble. We'd all be in trouble. If it's based on what we're doing, then not one of us would be left standing and say,

well, look, give me what I deserve. Nobody needs to ever say, give me what I deserve. No. Yeah, so before I read Jesus's response, well, maybe I should just read it. Then I want to make an illustration that was pretty funny that Keller made, but it says, Jesus said, I tell you no. So he answered the question, no. Yep.

They were not more guilty. So he took that argument, that belief system, which I'm telling you, people today, and even if we don't want to admit it, we think that. I think it is a natural, and I mean natural, as in earthly of the selfish ambition mode that we are, we tend to think that. You see some tragedy happen and you're like, well, it didn't happen to me and here's why. You think it. You wouldn't verbalize it, but you're like, oh, I'm doing good things. I mean, that's, he says verse three, I tell you no. But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

And then there's this huge gasp. I'm just imagining to get, what? You want me to repent? Don't put this on me. But if you are a human being, you are a sinner. Oh, yeah. You are a sinner. Well, and I think you've cut to the end of the road here.

That is true. And it was something Keller said at the end of his sermon, and he almost had to prepare the audience for it. And even when he said it, there was like the same gasp. It's like, we all deserve towers to be falling on us. That is correct. And boy, you know, it was crickets in his, I could hear the, it was just, wait what?

No, we don't. And that was his point. There's nothing you can do about this. There's nothing you can do outside of children, which who you... Everyone is... They're innocent, but we know that in God's grand scheme of things, you know, death is not necessarily a problem. It's not to God. But as far as deserving in the context, so we would say adult,

It's sad, but everyone is a sinner. Exactly. And he brings up to your point, Phil, verse four. Another illustration. He's like, are those 18 who died when the tower at Salon fell on them? Do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? And then he says the same response. I'll tell you no.

But unless you repent, you two will perish. So it's almost in a riddle because it's. It's so hard to wrap your head around, why he would say you need to repent. They weren't more guilty, but you need to repent. And so we'll get into it. The illustration I wanted to use, because it was very profound to me, of all things that Keller could have used, he brought up this movie, and I doubt you all have seen it, but it's called The Sound of Music. Have y'all seen that movie? Oh, I've seen it on times.

Well, here's the backstory on this. When my wife and I were dating and we were, you know, there's a little bit of a jockeying for position mainly due to immaturity about how this thing is going to go. And so like on the second date, I told my wife, I said, look, I duck hunt 60 days a year, every year. so if that's a problem let's just end this now I mean I said it more nicely than that is a second date and she was like

well I don't have a problem with that and so about on the fifth date she was like well let me just explain something to you you know if you were ever lucky enough to marry me my kids are going to a Christian school and I already have one picked out

so if that's a problem you can move on you know see this is way that's what that's what we were negotiating yeah so during one of these negotiations she said look there's one prerequisite now this was later on in the day we're getting close to marriage and she said you're going to need to sit down and watch the sound of music with me and so I was like that's it okay so I sat down and watched this movie with her which I totally did not get it you know I just thought, really?

So that's why I said when he brought up an illustration about the sound of music, I was like, I've actually seen this movie. Before you leave that, Jay's, did you tell her she had to watch Outlaw Josie Wales? I attempted that post-marriage, and that's where I made the mistake. I waited until we were married, and I said, I want you to watch this movie, and she never made it to the end. And I've tried on multiple occasions. She just she couldn't do it and I think it was mainly because I kept quoting the lines before they said it. Yeah, you were probably ruining it. And she's like, are you going to let me watch them?

I was like, I can't help it. I literally cannot help it. And I just wouldn't quit talking during the movie. So what I wish I would have known is that one of the stars in the movie of the male, the lead male, I can't, I didn't write his name down. but he actually would later refer to that movie a project as the sound of mucus. He did not like the movie, and it's my wife's favorite movie, but I don't want to tell her that because it'll break her heart. But he actually picked out a song that they sang from the movie

to illustrate the point that we are now discussing. And the song, I won't sing it for you, but it went something like this. I must have done something good. Oh, if you love me, so they're recording or whatever in the movie. And it says, if you love me, I must have done something good.

Nothing comes from nothing. I must have done something good. That's the nature of the song. Now, he went into more of it than I am. But he made the point, that's what we think. If I get the person that I really want, well, I must have done something good. If I get the promotion at work, well, I did something good.

And therefore, if, you know, if I have a car wreck, well, I must have done something bad. You know, if I wound up in the hospital. So really, when you think about this from the biblical perspective, you think about John 9. Remember this same situation came up? Man's born blind, and they said, well, who's seeing that this happened? Yep. Because there's no way. I mean, this guy's born blind.

He's innocent. Yep. And Jesus didn't answer the question. But he basically said this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. And you think about what happened to Job. Now, we kind of know what happened there. We, but Job didn't. He just looked up and his family started dying.

His, you know, crops started getting raided. Everything got stolen. And then his friends, you remember what his friend said for 30 chapters? What have you done? You did something wrong. You did something wrong. The bulk of the book of Job is them telling him, no, you messed up. You just need to confess what it is.

Let's take another break. That's the context here of what he's addressing. Correct. And really, it's interesting, days, because it sounds harsh. this first part, you know, because he mentions the tower and he makes the same point for them. But he puts it back unless you repent. In other words, Jesus puts it back into that, into the place that we're all the same. And we all have a chance.

It's according to how you look at it, the negative side about evil, and Zach, you can probably speak to this with all your apologetic stuff. The negative side is, well, this just isn't fair. This isn't right because you can't have a. a just God and have, you know, bad situations. But Jesus flips it the other way and says, but we're all the same. There's no, there's no such thing as somehow we were good. Somehow we're all the same, not Jesus, but like we humans. Yeah, and in the apologetic world, they call it the problem of evil.

And a lot of good things happen about people, that whole thing. But when, when, when, when you were talking about the, the song from the sound of music, the first thing that popped in my head, I must have done something good. The first thing that popped in my head was what Paul said in Romans 3, when he quotes out of Psalm, he says,

quote the Psalmist, he says, both Jews and Greeks, which would be everybody, are under sin. As it is written, none is righteous, no not one,

no one understands, no one seeks for God, All have turned aside. Together, they have become worthless. No one does good. Not even one. Their throat is an open grave. They use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asp is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood. In their paths are ruin and misery. And the way of peace they have not known. There is no fear of God before their eyes. So when I want to think about myself in a better light, you know, I'm really kind of ignoring the words of Paul, you know, here, which are really echoing the words of Jesus. You don't, if you're, if whatever you get is based on what you do, then every one of us is going to get destruction.

If it's based on what we do. You know, but if it's based on what Christ has done, which is ultimately where this whole thing is moving towards, then those who are in him will not get what they deserve. They'll get what Christ has accomplished for them and for us. I think that's the whole thing here, this kingdom mindset, kingdom lifestyle. Part of it is like we're doing good, we're doing stuff, but we're not, our obedience is not an obedience to earn anything.

That's not what it is. Our obedience is how we enjoy God. It's not to earn favor with God because that's impossible. We're not good enough. it's not that so our obedience is to is more as how we enjoy him and I think that's the kingdom life that he's pointing out here like you're not getting what this stuff based on what you do yeah well Keller had a couple really good points that I never thought about one if this logic was true then Jesus who was the best of us or is the best of us he did he do something good he did everything good

And what happened? You did. He suffered. He was persecuted. He was tortured. And he was killed. Because by one sacrifice, he, Jesus, has made the group that Dasher was on, he has made perfect forever those who have been. made holy.

Other words, Hebrews 10. Hebrews 10. At Hebrews 10, every time you say, without the death of God, gave up his life for three days. Without faith in that, no one's good enough to make it.

You only become good enough when you have enough faith to say, I trust you, God. to take care of me. Yeah. Well, he made the point. He took the biggest tower falling, which was all our sins.

That's right. And so when you put it in that perspective, the other point he made, which I really think this was why he approached this this way. It's hard to be perfect in front of God because nobody has ever done it except the one who died for the ones who didn't. Exactly.

And they said, well, what I do now? You move on it. Faith. So what he said is why people don't understand what Jesus was saying is because we've, in our Western culture, is we've misunderstood what repentance means. He's like most churches, we think, oh, we do something wrong, and then we got to go repent of it. So you confess it, and then you're forgiven. And he's like, but when you try to read that in here, you're like, well, that wouldn't make any sense.

Why is he telling them to repent after telling a story about towers? you know, falling on people and people dying, you know, where injustice is seemingly happened. And so he made a really good point. He's like, in essence, we always think sin is just breaking the law. We're like, well, that's what it is for, you know, what's the verse 1st John 3, 4? Yeah. Sin is breaking the law. He said, but think about, what the root of sin is. And you come up with a verse like, and he didn't do this,

but I thought of this verse, James 316, for where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. And you think of the verse that says, you know, God doesn't tempt us. Each one is dragged away

by his own evil desires. So he made a point, the essence of sin is putting yourself in God's place. Now, we use. usually think that that's, you know, having sex with, you know, someone that's not your wife or getting drunk or all these different things, which is true. And you're like, you've got to repent of that. He said, but who is he talking to here? He's talking to people that a tower didn't fall on. He's talking to people who have confidence in their own righteousness, who's putting their

faith in their own kingdoms in their, so he's like, that is the most dangerous place to be, because really when tragedy happens, it makes you realize that there's a God and you're not him because you're perishable, you're immortal. And so I've always viewed this as saying, look, suffering or bad things happen from our own sin or somebody else's sin or because we live in an evil world. Or we don't have access to that tree of life. You remember back in the garden? well, one of the consequences of the sin, you know, was separation. We know that from God. But another one was it said he can no longer reach out from that tree of life and continue to live forever.

So I don't know if even though there was even no sin before that time, you know, a tree may fall on your head and you were perishable. So he had a tree, he had a way for you to get around that. But now we don't have that. So I don't think you can think of any other thing to explain why bad things happen. But Keller's point, to get back to the point was, he wasn't necessarily talking about the self-indulgence, sins, but the self-righteous. And when you put something else in place of God, when you make your, you know, you, your own savior and Lord, or you put your confidence in your own kingdom and get security in the context of what we've been. talking about in your wealth or what you can do,

that is when you better watch out. That's why you should repent. That's why he's saying, you need to repent. You've got to change Lord. If you're going to put this on yourself, what's your answer to all these problems? Lord, how many, Lord, how many radics, how many admonitions have I failed?

His answer would be a lot. Exactly. That's a good point, Jason, on the essence of sin. I think we've always viewed it. I grew up, you know, I mean, it's true. It's a failure to hit the mark and all of that. But at its core, it's what you said, which is what you see in the first sin. The first sin was Adam and Eve eating the fruit.

And the reason why they ate the fruit, what was the temptation Satan told them? He said, if you eat this fruit, the reason why God doesn't want you to eat it, because if you do eat it, your eyes will be open and you'll be like him, knowing good from evil. So the pull into the first original sin in the Bible was a temptation that you can be your own God, that you can control your own destiny, that you can, God's holding something back from you, he's not good, and if you eat this, then you can become like him, and you can have all these sanks. And then they saw the fruit and they ate it. Another way I've heard sin described is that it's a failure to thank God, to thank him,

a failure to thank God for the gift that he's given you and to worship the gift for the sake of itself. And so you think about what these, in this context, when you mention that these aren't like the egregious sinners, these are the people who are the so-called righteous. And they took the things of God, the law, the temple, and they elevated the. those things over God himself. And the reason why they did that is because they wanted to contain God. And they wanted to put him in that temple. And they wanted to put him inside that law.

And they wanted to contain him in there. But they didn't want to put him in their hearts. And I think that that's, that's the big shift in this kingdom mentality that we're talking about, that Jesus is bringing a new kingdom. It's not that the law was bad. Paul says in 1 Timothy 1, 8, that the law is good if you use it, you know, lawfully.

But the problem is nobody does. But the law itself is not bad. That's my point. Breaking the law is just a symptom of the problem. And you say, what? It's a symptom that you've elevated yourself as to make decisions on what is right and wrong and how you're going to live your life. And if you do that, guess what?

It's not going to end well for you. And we're real manipulative on how we do that. There's layers to it. You know, we're very manipulative, even in our own hearts. It's hard to see this stuff. these Pharisees, man, they thought they were being righteous. Paul said, I persecuted the church in good conscience. I mean, you can trick yourself and manipulate yourself into thinking that what you're doing is good. And when in all actuality, you're indulging in evil. That's the scary part,

you know, that we can lauder ourselves about this. And I think that's why Keller said, this is a very dangerous place to be, particularly when your sin is self-righteousness. Well, remember, his call to repentance is really a call to mercy. And, which is what we're talking about here. You want mercy, not justice. And so, because that's what repentance is looking to God and saying, I can't do this on my own. So I need you.

Let me read this last little bit because we didn't talk about it in overtime, because you're almost out of time. The parable that he tells highlights this point that I just made and that Keller made. He says a man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find in him. So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, For three years now, I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down.

Why should it use up the soil? Sir, verse eight, the man replied, Leave it alone for one more year and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine. If not, then cut it down. And the point being, Swindaw had talked about this. And he put for the man that had the own. the vineyard, he put justice. And for the other man who tended it, he put mercy. And he said,

justice says it has to be cut out because it's not doing what it's designed to do. But mercy says, give it a little more time. You know, give it another year. And let's continue to give an opportunity. Which really, if you think about it, it's the perfect conclusion to coming out of Luke 12, when everything was about, you need to do this while you still have an opportunity to follow me and to do what's right. Remember that last illustration he used at the end of 12? He said, why would you wait until you get to court to settle a debt? Why wouldn't you try to settle it before you get there? Because once you get to court, all this is going to happen is justice and judgment.

And so it really is a point of grace, you know. Oh, it is. I think that is the point because when you think, oh, I must have done something good because good things are happening. And like the song that we mentioned, you know, nothing comes from nothing. that doesn't allow for grace. Our attitude should be, yeah, the only way I'm going to do something good is the grace of God. Because when you swallow your pride, step away from the self-righteous things, when you look at what you have to offer, that's when you realize you need a savior and you need a Lord.

I mean, you're alone, you're perishable, you're sinful, and that's just the honest truth. And that's the core of repentance. That's the core of the repentance is seeing that you're sinful. And I think what we've done in modern culture, not all church cultures, but we fall into the trap. And I think it is a trap. And it's where we want to, we don't want to talk about freedom from sin. We want to talk about freedom from like self-esteem issues or we use terms of broken. And that's all true.

Brokenness, depression, whatever, like alone, lonely. But it's not just the hills me from my, you know, my insecurities. my loneliness. No, no, I'm a rebel. Like, I have rebelled against the Holy God, and I'm a sinner. And grace starts there. The other stuff comes after that, but the first place that grace starts is in the movie The Blind that feels life. I mean, it starts with forgiveness for our rebellion against God. It's, it's that old man dying. That guy's got to die. The old man, the sinful man, the enemy of God. Romans 5 says it very clear that while we were enemies, Christ died for. We were enemies. We weren't, we weren't just like insecure in our own,

you know, our own, our own personality. That we were enemies of God and he, and his blood covered me there. So grace starts when I'm an enemy and then it cleans up the other stuff. It helps me gain confidence and all these things. But at the core of it, it is coming to grips with the fact that I am a sinner. I have rebelled against God. I have been an enemy of God. and I'm sorry and God give me mercy, give me grace. That's where it starts. That's good. That's well said. And a great way to close out our podcast because we're out of time.

We'll talk a little bit more about this in our overtime segment. If you want to follow us over there, blazedtv.com slash unashamed. Be sure and buy those movie tickets. We're less than a week away. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube.

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