Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 768 | Jase Learns an Unsavory, but Useful Skill from His Grandparents

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

Jase reveals the impact of a skill he learned at Granny and Pa’s knees. From card games to dominoes to church softball games, Jase has left tears and near-fights in his wake! Phil once played softball for the church league and used his NFL-caliber arm, to the awe of spectators. The guys camp out in Luke 15 to discuss the characters of three different parables and how each of us can identify with nearly every one of them in some way. Jase proposes that Jesus isn’t a trash-talker, but he is a truth-talker. In this episode: Luke 15 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? All right, so welcome back to Unashame. We were just laughing about, because Zach's not with us today. And we did a podcast with him yesterday, and he was very, for Zach, he was super quiet. And Dad, you said you saw him sleeping. A lot of people, you know, they've learned how to be wide awake, but then they're asleep. Their eyes are open, but they're asleep. I've talked about that's a skill that you develop. It's funny because I was talking about having a cricket crowd in Colorado.

And meanwhile, Zach, and I don't think it's because the podcast was boring. He was having trouble staying awake. I think that translates. Well, he's been working hard. This movie's out. He's kind of burning both ends of the candle. But, I mean, I don't know that he could be working any harder than I'm working, because I'm on the road.

I've got eight appearances this month. Two or three times, I paused because I thought, I don't want to be hogging the conversation. I'll throw it to Zach. And he's just. What was it? What's your dude? I mean, it's the perfect, it's the gift that keeps on giving.

Because Zach is like the rest of us. He likes to talk. And you never know how he's going to come in, though. Some days he's like, he's pre-occupying. occupied and then we're like I'm prompting them I'm I'd made a strong point the thing and look to him like okay come in follow that up Zach crickets yeah so so I called him yesterday after we did the podcast because I was talking about another potential guest coming up in the future and it's so funny I was just trying to get under his skin a little bit because Zach's one of the few people I can still make fun of because he's not sensitive yeah and so and he explains It expects it. I mean, you know. Look, I used to be the biggest trash talker, like in all sports and competition. And I learned that after I made a few people cry, especially females, you know, when you were a part of some of that. Playing cards. You remember the time we were playing cards

with Shirley Riley, our neighbor? Oh, yeah. I mean, we were young. Like, I don't even think, you were like a teenager, and I was maybe, like, just got married. We were playing hearts, which, look, Hearts can be a brutal game. If you've never played the game, Hearts, it's very barbaric and brutal. Well, basically you team up against whoever is winning. That's right.

And it's part of the game. And if you give a color commentary on that, I mean, we just looked up in our neighbor who was... She used to come and play cards with us. And she was like a grown woman, married. She's our parents. Our parents ate.

Right. And then so we're playing cards. And Jason and I are just doing what we do. And we look up and she just bust out balling. Yeah. And I couldn't figure it out. I felt so bad. I was like, but that was the beginning of many times that I got into situations where tears were shed, threats were made over.

It's not like we're playing for money. I mean, these were gin rummies. Hearts, spades. You remember one of the. elders at uh at the at at wfr you know his wife back in the day we're playing spates and same thing and i remember that hand specific hand because they needed like if they caught their bid which is crazy i'm going back 30 years i remember this you remember a hand 30 years ago well this is what made her cry which i've apologized

We made up. But they, we had to set them to extend the game. And so we, you know, the beds came out, whatever. And so we sandbagged them is basically the term for you spades players. And so I was a setup. You know, I turned my hand over with like six tricks left to catch because I had the rest of them. You knew you had it. because I play cards, this is what we do.

And she said, what do you do it? Is it possible that you might have carried card playing a little bit? Yeah. We were probably a little too competitive. I was, but I lay down. There was like six cards left, and I had the rest of them. I had the ace of spades. I had done the math.

I'm almost 70, and I've never played a game of cards. You never were a card. There's four suits, Phil. There's hearts, diamonds, clubs, and spades. Spades are trumps. Well, spades are trumps, and I look at my hand, and I have six spades left in my hand, and they need, like, five. They need, you know, I need to catch the rest of the tricks for them to go set, or whatever it was.

So they needed one more to make their bid, but I have the rest of them. And so, because I've counted the amount of spades that have come out and realize that it's a mathematical impossibility for me. Me not. Which is why we were always good because when you're good at cards, you count cards and you know what's been, you remember what's been played. So I showed my last six cards, given the impression that I will start with the ace of spades and lead it, then the king. And somewhere in here, you have been mathematically eliminated for catching your bid, and you

are now set. So I said, I got the rest of them. And she said, what are you doing? exposing your hand. I said, I have the rest of the tricks. You're going set. It's like in Domino's when you play three times a row. You know, like, you know you're the old one.

She said, well, play it out. That's where I messed up. I picked my hand up, and then I didn't play the ace of spades. I slammed the ace of spades and said, okay, I slammed the king of spades. That's when they started crying. Yeah, tears began to flow. And apologies, then we're given. Now look, was I wrong?

Yes. I'm not defending it. That's why maybe I wore this shirt or could be wrong. It's actually not. This was. So anyway, to go back to Zach, I was trying to get under his skin because he can, he can take it. Yeah. Because he's one of us.

It was like when I went on a mission trip, first mission trip I went on, we went to Romania. And this time was 26 years old. So I was still kind of still left over from that, our childhood and early 20s in terms of games. And so, you know, it's long flights, long airport, all that. So we're playing hearts. And it's with Kellett and Chris Howard and then Steve Adam, who's also one of our elders now. Well, you know, I mean, like I just went back into the mode. I'm always in playing cars.

Well, Adam, who's got quite the temper, he gets hot, you know, because you just, you know, you're playing with somebody good. He didn't know the game as well as I knew the game. He just gets up and flings his cards and storms all. And I was like, wait, we're on a mission trip. Like, we've got to work together. We can't be fighting over hearts. So I started to realize then that probably the way I always did it was not going to

bode well for me in the future. So for years, I never played cards. But some good friends of ours that we travel with, she wanted to play rook. She brought the rook cards. And I was dubious because I thought, I mean, I really like these folks, and I thought, oh, I'm going to have to, like, not care what happens, which is hard because your instinct is to go for the juggler. That's, you know, that's the way we did it. I mean, we were raised in an environment where you had to be thick skinned.

It's just part of it. There's a movie out there about it. You'll see the conditions we were raised. One of the things we did to escape the current situation and, last year, and last year, you're not. lack of money was we play cards. And Dominoe. Bill's parents were notorious trash talkers. Oh, they were.

They liked it. This was fun. We learned it from your parents. Yeah, that's the way I was raised. And your brothers. You don't just win. You tell them about your victory. Now, look, the next day, you're on the other side of it.

Yeah. You're eating crow. You got to take it. You can give it, but you've got to take it, too. You can't get mad about it. So I tried to defend it in the first. early years of my faith of making people upset. And I'm like, they need to toughen up.

But after a while, I realize, what would Jesus do? No, I can't be slamming cards and trash talking. Making people cry. No, I cannot do it. It's taking a little too seriously. Yeah. Well, but we're not, I wasn't really serious. This was, it was part of the game for us.

It's like when you watch professional sports now. And the whole time they're on, field or on the court, they're just jawing at each other. I mean, it's, and we're not hearing what they're saying, but it probably is not very, you know, kind. And so, but that's just what they expect. It's just trash talking. Look, it's fun.

I play cars now with people who can, who can dish it out and take, and I enjoy it. But if there's anybody new there or I'm never going to do that, and I'm not near like I used to be, because I think it's just frivolous, you know. Well, I'm like that, though, with just even joking around. So the other night, we were at an event for the movie, and Jersey Joe went with us. And Joe's just like, he's like my brother-in-law. He's like, Tony. They're thick skinned.

You can kid with them. They don't get offended. And I love that. So I'm going to be way more over the top and kidding around and joking with them. But if it's somebody I don't know, I'm not going to take a chance of offending them, you know, because I don't know how thin skin they are. So it's just kind of knowing your audience. I think more than anything, but...

Well, right. But look, I mean, you can make a case. Jesus was very offensive to a lot of people, but he did it the right way. It was... He was giving truth, not trash talk. That's right. So, but I do think you can't take yourself too seriously.

I mean, there's a balance in there. Yeah. And people shouldn't act like an idiot because they want a card game. Right. You know, it's, you don't rubbing it in can hurt people's fee. And you don't know. what kind of triggers that are out there for people. But, you know, when we had Philip on the podcast, you remember, he talked about it,

about it got so bad. He's one of the ones I offended early on. As new Christians, we would get them together and play cards. Because you got to remember, we had, we, there were hundreds, literally hundreds, in that age group that came to the Lord during that time. And they're like, what are we going to do? So our house and Jay's house were like mechas of cars. of card games

because it was mainly just staying away from worldly people was the main thing. But we were still kind of just doing what we always did. So even though I tried to work on my attitude when I play cards and all, because I love these guys. We're trying to get them to heaven. Philip was one of the ones that after a card game,

he's like, can I talk to you? And he's like, I'm really offended by that, you know, I mean, you're like you're rubbing it in. And it was like, Man, you should have seen me five years ago. You think that was a event. And so Phil told the story on the podcast, if you all remember, that it got down to the last thing. And he just, he knew what was coming.

So he just said, excuse me, I've got to go to the bathroom. And he went out a window and just left. Yeah. Rather than take what he was going to get. That's taking card playing a little too far. Well, it wasn't just cards, Phil. We had a famous story that, I don't know if I've ever told before, but we used to play fast pitch softball played for years and we had the best pitcher around here

and our pitcher was the guy who lives in the Dallas area now he's the guy that came to the lord that by accident yeah he was studying with somebody else yeah he overheard the conversation well he this guy while everybody was in high school doing whatever they were doing he was practicing and pitching a softball underhanded. I mean, he was a stud. He could smoke it. And so we were just beating everybody, winning the league. Well, after a while, you know, it's just kind of like there was no competition.

And so what we decided to do because we had a pool of players that played on the team because it's hard to get everybody for the whole season. I mean, people working. I mean, this is like. I had even played a couple of years. You did. And so what we decided to do one year was split our team. into two teams and everybody kind of recruited some other guys and played each other oh man that sounds

like a great idea we're all brothers right trash talking between the two teams the two church because we're winning every every game they're winning every game and i'm not on mackintosh's team you know they had the best pitcher because they had him and he had taught me how to pitch this was kind of late in our careers and so uh obviously we were at a disadvantage because I'm not as good a pitcher as McDonagh. But I was learning quickly. So I got in the game and I was the lead off hitter. Well, McIntosh, first pitch he threw to me, I deposited it over the fence, home run,

and talked all the way around the basis. I should have known right there this was not going to end well. Because it embarrassed him because he was like all day, he was like, I'm going to strike you out, you know. Well, one of his buddies, our mutual friends who played on his team, he was telling me, I'm going to take you deep, you know. This is before the game. They called me.

I was at Duck Command. They called me and, like, laughing. So first pitch of the game, I take it deep. We're up one nothing. So then when I'm facing them, the guy who said he was going to take me deep and was the best home run hitter around. I loaded the bases on walks because I was a good point. pitch of it I was wild and I just thought it was a they got to a three two count and I was

throwing my off speed and he kept fouling it off kept fouling it off kept fouling it off because I was struggling with fastball and I thought you know what who cares if I'll walk I mean he's I'm not going to give in and I just thought I'm fixed a rear back and throw this as hard as I can so I threw a fastball after about three changeups and I blew it by him he swung late you know Well, in that moment, I just lost it. And I hollered as loud as I could. Sit down! So I struck him out, and then I showed him up because I said, sit down.

Well, when I said sit down, of course, this guy's about... He's a big guy. He's a big guy. He turned and started walking right toward me, like, because I'm on the mound. And like an idiot, I'm like, what are you going to do? benches cleared Willie who was on our team he come running by me from the outfield

like oh we just lost it you know and so before any punches were thrown somebody said this is a fine way for Christians to be yeah that's a little too far so then we wound up having a prayer this is during the game

and the umpire said you are pathetic I've forgotten about that, Judge. I was there that night. But then I tell you, when I lost my competitive spirit, then we lost like 12 to 2. But I did have two home runs. Just saying. And you did. Tell them to sit down.

Let's take a break. Oh, man, that was memory laying there. I'd forgotten about all that. I do remember Dad playing, though, and Dad pitched some because he always had a good arm. But we put Dad in the center field because he could throw the ball. I mean, somebody hits the ball out there. Dad could throw the ball to home plate on a rope. I saw some strange things from Phil's arm.

You had that NFL talent arm. You threw one one day, Dad, you were way out. I mean, you were like at the fence, and these are big parks. You threw the ball, and I think you were throwing it to third, and it started rising, and it went into the other park at the other where they were playing. I mean, I don't know how far that walk. I actually remember that. Everybody was like, what just happened?

That was like a shout out of a candy. It was. It just rose out of sight into another field of play. It was so funny. Well, we went down a rabbit hole, but we lost Zach. Yeah, we said all that. We started with Zach. He's not here today, so I hope he's sleeping.

He needs some rest. But we're in Luke chapter 15, and we're going to hang out here a while just because, to be honest, this is just so good. Yeah. So we introduced it last podcast. Is there? And it's about the midpoint of the whole gospel. But it kind of wraps up everything he's been talking about in the last two or three chapters to me. I mean, you know, you can make a case that they all go together.

But he's kind of wrapping up this thing. He's been talking about all these settings where they were eating and had all these controversies back and forth. And so, yeah, given the picture of I'm bringing a kingdom and there's going to be a great feast and the eternal consequences of that and we actually left off in overtime with a with a passage that i jumped forward to in luke 17 in verse 20 and 21 when it says once having been asked by the pharisees when the kingdom of god would come jesus replied the kingdom of god does not come visibly or some version say with careful observation nor will people say here it is or there it is because the kingdom of God is within you or some version say among people yeah but the reason

I brought that up is because you got to remember Jesus came saying repent for the kingdom is near he's acting as the king yep the son of God he has supernatural ability he's going to be the king and they're all like well when when when is it and he started talking about where And he said it's in you. And so when you tie that in with what's happening in Luke 15, the accusation from the Pharisees and teachers we talked about they were muttering about Jesus. They said, this man welcomes sinners and eats with them because Jesus was having a meal with tax collectors and sinners. So he tells them three stories, three parables, about something being lost and found a sheep a coin and a son and so the result of it being found in

each case caused joy not only on earth but in heaven and we talked about this last podcast he zeroed in on this power and godly fundamental of the power of one person being valuable enough for Jesus to come and save and rescue that. And so that's why I brought that up. The kingdom is within you. It's within people. It's almost a explanation of the narrow gate in that it's Jesus, but it happens one at a time. You know, it's funny, Jay's because you said this many times before that movies are made with so many spiritual themes. And I'm not even sure the writers of them know that they're coming from that. It's just, it's almost like they've heard this. So I was watching the other night, and I thought about this text and what we're talking about, I was watching one of the Marvel

movies that it's a Thor, which is the whatever he is. And it's my guy with the hammer. Yeah, the hammer. So it was my, it's my favorite of all those movies. I don't know why. This one really resonated, but I liked it. But I didn't really look at it like it came out of this until, so the, the setup is they're on this, this, uh, uh, uh, Asgard, which is their planet, you know, where they all come from. And so it gets destroyed. And the people escape before it gets destroyed. And he says, first his dad tells him this. His dad's like a whatever. His dad tells him that Asgard is not a place. It's the people. And so then the people get on a ship and they escape. And when the planet's destroyed, he says that to the people. He says, Asgard is not a place. It's a people. And so the kingdom survived,

to even the planet getting destroyed. And I thought they got that from this. This is the idea that the kingdom is not a place. It's not boundaries around a certain piece of property. It really is people, which I thought was really interesting. Which is interesting you bring that up, because when we get to the next chapter in Luke 16, that's what that's all about.

About when we get to heaven and begin eternal life, all the things that we chase on earth and just put it, anything there. I mean, at the top of the list, from Jesus' perspective, his money, there's more, he brings up money more than anything else. It's not going to, it's not needed. There's nothing you can do with money in the afterlife. And, you know, you get this incredible depiction of the rich man and Lazarus, when it's all said and done, you got a beggar and you got one of the richest men on the planet and they are in opposite places. Yeah. And the rich man, what can he do now?

It really, and the thrust of the, there's been a lot, we'll get into that, we get there, but there's been a lot of, is that, are those real people? Is this just a story?

But don't miss the point Jesus is trying to make. There's regret if all you had was this life. And that was the whole point of that parable, which we'll get to when we get there. Yeah, and even the first story before you get to that one, the parable of the shrewd manager, is very,

it's, I don't think I've ever heard a sermon preached on it. But it's basically about being ready for the next phase. That's right. He used an earthly story about, you know, a guy that's going to lose his job, whatever. But then he was shrewd to, even though he was going to lose his job, he was going to use whatever he could, resources for a new beginning. Well, Jesus then applies that to the eternal hope that we have.

It's about a group. Whatever money you have, use it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's about a group who go forth as one, which is difficult to do to get everybody on board with the same thinking process. Yeah, the unity of it. Oh, yeah.

And that's the power of it. Yes, right. You can't break it up because you peel off a little bit. There's others that replace it. It's a group. And individually, they have. The group of individuals. They had the same goal.

Yeah. That's it. And you're right. The problem is, and we outlined this a little bit in the last podcast. You don't see those actively working. No. The problem is once you become part of the 99 to use the illustration he did in the sheep, it's hard for you not to think like a collective where you quit caring about the one.

That's right. So that you're right. You've zeroed in on it. The idea is to be unified. I mean, in a purpose. One, contrary to all of these years before, you see what happens when you get a little bitty small group calling the shots. That's right. And the bulk of them are weeded out.

Get out of the way. You're not worth getting up here and doing this and doing that. If you finally get to get a group of individuals who are, they think as one and act as one, and they're guided by love for the head. Yep. And it's just a, it's a unique way of operating. I've found that we know what to work because we're here. If groups, if collectives can always be concerned about the one,

then they'll stay on track. If it stays cord in this and grace, you do well. But when you get away from that is when you run in the same problems that are happening in this. See, that's why they're asking Jesus, what about? that one. Oh, what about this one? What about this one? What about that one? They're looking for ways to rule over them. I mean, that's just the nature of mankind. That's right. And you're right, it's the ultimate in human nature. Let's take another. It's amazing to me, though, even how many scholars are kind of taken up for the older brother when we get to him and taken up

for the 99 who doesn't need to repent. But you've got to remember, the Pharisees, this is not a warm and fuzzy. I mean, they're attacking him. Oh, big time. Even in the next chapter in chapter 16, this withering story about what you do with your money, you know, he gets to verse 14 and it said of 16. It says the Pharisees who loved money.

Well, he pretty much has zeroed out, I mean, a zeroed in on, you can't love money and God. That's not going to work at the same degree. You either love money or you love God. There's no in between there. And the murmuring went to sneering, by the way, when it came to talking about money.

And you've got to remember, at this stage of the life of Jesus Christ, at this stage, this is just before he is going to die a horrible death here shortly. but you wouldn't think he's talking like this with each group and how you should treat each other. He goes out of his way. He's sick to die. But his death provides salvation for a large number who will accept it by faith. Right. These people don't have faith.

That's right. It's a battle. And they're looking at him. Oh, yeah. They're physically looking at the Messiah. They would be shocked if they understood. what was fixing and happened well he's been been telling them but but they're not buying what Jesus even told the group then remember he said blessed are you because you're seeing me

and you get but but blessed even more the ones after who won't even see me that's right but will understand me that's why it's interesting in like chapter 14 and verse one it's like when he was at the prominent Pharisee house they were watching him but they weren't watching him. Yeah, that's a great point. Like, you want to watch Jesus. They're just trying to. Remember we said that word, Jays, that Greek word meant ambush. It's lying in weight. You know, you think if you're watching for somebody in a positive way, you're excited, you're looking forward to. But if you're looking to waylay and ambush somebody, that's watching

all the wrong way. So I did some research. You have to go back all the way back to Luke chapter nine, Jesus strictly warned him not to tell anyone. He said, the son of man must suffer many things, be rejected by the elders, the chief priest, teachers of the law, he must be killed, and on the third day be raised alive. He's fixing to tell you how to live your life after he does this. Well, you know, Al, they're scratching their head saying, He just said he's fixing to die. Yeah, the message was too drastic. And this is how you ought to behave.

So that's just, that's Luke 9. Right. But he just spells it out, but he's been doing it up to that. I'm going to die. So here's the way you need to roll. Yeah, but it's one thing, Dad, to think, okay, you're going to die, but the death of a system, the one I've always known, now that's that, now we're getting personal.

Yeah. guys, which is why they had such a hard time. What were you going to say, Judge? You did research. I was going to say, I did research. Because some people defend the older brother, and I'm just not seeing it. I really think that you had the scenario, tax collectors and sinners, and Jesus is eating with them, and the Pharisees and teachers of the law muttering. So you have two groups of people, and Jesus in the middle.

Yep. And I really believe that this lost son represents the first group of people, which is the tax collectors and centers. And I believe the older son represents the second group of people, which is the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. But I was amazed that there were a few people that I read who I generally respect that they didn't see it that way. And I don't, they were defending the older brother.

And I thought, I don't think so. I couldn't defend that guy. No. Because to me, when we get to that, which I know we're not specifically there, I'm jumping ahead. But I'm just trying to set the context of the first two verses is that they both wanted their father's stuff. Now granted, the younger son, he basically gave the equivalent to, I wish you were, dead. Give me my inheritance. I'm out of here. I mean, he left. He wanted the stuff, which happens when your father dies. I mean, what kind of? That's horrible. I'm not making light of that.

But this older brother, well, he doesn't like his brother coming back. He doesn't like him wasting the father wasting in his mind his money. And I'm like, they're both using the father for his stuff and his money rather than appreciating the father. And I think what I noticed is that the father went to both of them. He ran to the younger son and he ran to the older son and gave the same message. I'm trying to give you, you already have everything I have. Right. No, I agree.

So I don't know. Do you agree with that? I agree 100%. In fact, we're not quite there, but I want to read this now anyway since you brought it up. This was so good. I just had to bring it and read it. This is out of Chuck Swindaw's book. He says, The Parable of the Prodical Son is perhaps the best known, yet least understood story Jesus ever told. It resonates deeply with readers because they so readily see their own experiences reflected in the wayward son's choices. And he's right. And they long for the kind

of grace shown to him by the father. Furthermore, we all know that wayward people who have caused intense heartache. So this powerful story of forgiveness, challenges us to imitate the gentle, merciful father, who's the hero of the story. Yet lurking in the shadows is a figure we all know, a frowning, finger-wagging, petulant enemy of grace who never fails to spoil a good story of reconciliation. I agree. Who does this older brother represent the answer is obvious and surprising at the same time? So I thought it was just really well spoken to your point, Jay's because he agrees with us

that really that he's the villain of the story. I've noticed something about Pharisees. They can't recognize other Pharisees. Yeah. That's right. So I'm saying people who are defending the older brother, I was really shocked about that. That's why I brought it out.

I didn't notice that until I studied this last night. But I thought, I agree. Really? Let's take another break. So I think it's impressive that Jesus, off the top of his head, you know, tells these three parables. And we talked a little bit about the sheep and how, I mean, look, we were talking about being thick skin and thin skin.

I mean, the creator of the universe, now in human form, compares us humans to one of the dumbest animals on the planet. Yep. I don't think that's by accident. That's right. And most helpless. I mean, pretty much. They need a shepherd.

Yeah, they don't have any defense of themselves. And there's no loyalty. You know, they'll, they'll just wander off. Right. And they're lost. And they'll fall off cliffs, chasing grass. And it's really kind of an app. When you really think about it, what causes all the problems with the sheep?

And if you do some research, you'll see this. It's all based on their appetite. They have one thing on their mind, eating grass. and nothing else matter. They don't even realize the danger they put themselves in. And so I noticed that in all that research, the number one death of sheep besides, you know, someone trying to eat one is they just fall off cliffs and just die.

They don't realize where they're at, and they'll just fall and die. Which, you know, you read the 23rd song, David, who was a shepherd, kind of lays out that the nature of sheep, even looking at his own life, which is interesting. So the principles that we took out of that first story, and then we're about to read the second one, about the treasure. The principles are that the father is a seeker, because he goes to get the one. So the idea is he goes to look, and, of course, then he compares that to the 99. And also, Jay is the point we brought up last time, and we're going to see this in the next story, is the joy and the rejoicing that happens when a lost sheep is found.

And so he puts it in the story. But then he says when a sinner comes to grace and comes to repentance, the angels in heaven rejoice. I mean, like a football game in another realm, I mean, that's a big deal. And I understand with that with the people that have seen the movie and come to grace. I just thought, man, the last few weeks, heaven has been. loud, you know, just from people we know that have come to Christ, which is pretty powerful. Yeah, I wanted to say one thing, too, and I noticed that I've shared this before, but not in this context, that in Matthew's version of this, this story comes in a completely different

place. In Matthew 18, there's no doubt that he's talking about kids in verse one. I've never heard anybody teach this. And every commentary I read, just to see, you know, every once in a while you have an idea when you read something, you think, ooh, has anybody discovered this? To my surprise, I read, I have zero support in the people I read, but I just want to throw it out there.

And I do have my shirt on that says I could be wrong. But he's talking about who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. so he calls a child and had him stand among them and said i tell you the truth you know unless you became like become like little children you will never enter the kingdom of him and we went through that therefore whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom which goes along with the previous chapter in luke when remember when he said whoever exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted then he goes with the consequences of children people who calls children to stumble.

It would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around his neck. And so it's like the reason this other movie has received so much fanfare, what was the name? Sound of Freedom is versus like this. And I've heard this passage quoted more in the last couple of years because of our current cultural stuff that's going on than I've ever heard in my life. I mean, outside of church, just everywhere. And I realize there are all kinds of religious views on this.

Some people believe, you know, children are born into sin, and I do not agree with that. So we just, I don't agree with that. I think they're safe. They're innocent. I see a baby. I'm like, there's no sin there. Now, do we all have the sinful nature, which is what causes all this debate? And sin curse, right.

Theologians and all. But there's no, to me, they're safe. So when you say, are they, you know, you have safe, lost, saved. Yeah. I mean, that's my view. So then he gets to seven. He's still talking about kids. And then he has this very graphic picture about if your hand or foot calls you to sin, you know, throw it away.

It's better to enter life maimed or creativity. will then have two hands so you know and be thrown into eternal fire so then he goes down to verse 10 he says see that you do not look down on one of these little ones we're still talking about this for i tell you that they're angels always see the face of my father in heaven and that's where people get the idea about garden angels and we're not getting into that now but that means something yep but that does kind of support what i was saying about safe you know we as lost people who are found, we have Jesus representing us in heaven today. Well, to me, if you had kids who were safe, it would make sense to have angels representing them in heaven because of their innocence.

But that's, I'm on an island with that thought, but I mean, I do think it's interesting. So we said all that to say this. So look at how Matthew does. So then he says, based on what, Jesus said, in this context, what do you think if a man owns a hundred sheep and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the 99 on the hills and go look for the one that wandered off? And if he finds it, I'll tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the 99 that did not wander off. In the same way your father in heaven is not willing that any of the sheep, you know,

of these little ones be lost. So that, but the difference is when he said at this time, there's no repentance. There's no, it's just a wandered off, which would seem like he's talking about kids in this context. And then in Luke 15, it seems like he's talking about tax collectors and sinners wandering off, same parable with two different people in mind. now look you're not going to offend me well it's interesting because i've never really thought about it maybe being the context um of the same story although it very well could be or he could just

be using that same story multiple times because he's teaching another context but you're right the wording is the same either whether he's making the point separately from the way he does in the loop passage or matthew just takes that story and plugs it in here either way, I think you're exactly right. Well, the only thing he changes is the repentance. It goes from wandering off to they didn't wander off. Yeah, that's right. I mean, it is.

Well, when you were talking about this, let's take our last point. When you were talking about this, I looked at the next context of Matthew, and it's the brother who sends against you. And then Peter's question about forgiveness, which is kind of interesting, applying that into the story of the two brothers where the brother couldn't forgive his brother or wouldn't. So in a sense, it's almost like Matthew has does have that same theme. He just doesn't tell the story.

But he also makes you think that what if a kid is sinned against. Let's face it, some kids are sinned against. They were totally innocent. It was zero percent their fault. And they're going to have a harder time. having clarity to find the Lord because somebody else's sin has caused them trauma. Every time Lisa and I speak, she talks about that. She was sexually abused as a child.

It was not her fault. It was someone else that did it to her. But then she dealt with dishonesty and all these things in our life because of what happened. He said, well, you're just taking the blame putting it on somebody else. No, you're just explaining the rules. root cause of what happens when a child ascend against, then they have to deal with the consequences until they can figure it out. And for her, she didn't figure it out until she was 33 years old. So here's the hope, though, Al, is what I'm trying to say. And look, you can disagree with me.

It's fine. I just wanted you to think about it. Because where the hope is, is that no matter if you were a kid and something terrible happened to you, or if you chose, you know, in Luke's version, if you made some bad decisions, and that's why you wandered off or lost from the herd, the shepherd's coming after you. He is coming after you to restore you and make you whole, and you can start over whether you started off right and chose to go wrong, which we all do. Or you were innocent and somebody else came in there and gave you a lot of baggage. that you're going to have to deal with,

Jesus is still in pursuit of that person and to make it right, even though it wasn't your fault, the way it started. No, that's a great point. And I'm sure there's people listening that have probably carried along some baggage. And here's the way Lisa describes it.

She said, I went out, I fell out in the backyard when she just got to this place. It was so heavy. And she called out to God and said, if you're there, because I'm not sure right now, I'm such a place.

if you're there, come and rescue me. She made a call to the shepherd. And she said, and he did. I felt it in that moment and knew he had come for me. And so she was 33. Now she's, you know, 57. There's been a lot of years that have gone by. But look, she's been released from all that stuff.

The shepherd showed her the way out. So she's been released. So some of you out there, you're struggling with something was done to you, something from your past, something from your youth, you have to get to that place where you let Christ release you from whatever it is. And that's what he does. You're talking about the blind now. That's exactly right. That's another good example from the movie. But there's plenty of verses talking about justice is coming in the end. Everything will be made right and as painful and terrible as things

that happen, especially to kids. It's not like God's not saying he's not aware of this. He's not asleep. He's, you know, they're like, well, why, why doesn't God care? He cares. Yes. And this was his plan, and he came down to make wrong things right. And they will be righted. That's right.

And that's part of the problem with the older brother is he wanted justice in the moment, which we'll talk about when we get to him. Let me read this because we only have a few minutes left on the podcast. And I want to be able to talk about something in overtime. And next time, because we're still hadn't gotten to the sun. Jace did warn you. We're going to camp out here a while because there's so much good stuff. Yeah, and I mean, there's so many interchanges among other passages. That's right.

That's right. I'm so glad you brought the Matthew Pazzo. I hadn't thought about that. So now in Luke 15, verse 8, let me read the second little short story, because he's going to give you another context, but he's still making the same point from the first one. He says, or, verse 8, suppose a woman has 10 silver coins in drachmas. is the actual coin they're talking about, and loses one. Does she not light a lamp, sweep the house, and search carefully until she finds it?

So here's, again, he's establishing the principle of the seeker, the creator, the beginner, the owner, however you want to put it in the context, the shepherd, they're seekers. Because he says she's going to look for it, right? And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, rejoice with me. There's the second principle from the first story. There's joy. I have found my lost coin. In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents. Yeah. Well, I want to say this. So I'm a treasure hunter, and one of the reasons I got into treasure hunting is this paragraph. Yeah. Because I thought

if the creator of the universe is using this as an illustration of the joy that happens when you find the lost coin, and he's equating that to the reason he's having a meal with tax collectors and centers and to save humanity, that seems like a good hobby. It's certainly not a bad, Ivy. No. You have a scriptural basis for why you do it. But I'm going to give you a different perspective in this, and I'll talk further in the overtime about it, is do you realize that a lot of the coins that we find

pre-1900 and i found them all the way back to the 1600s that's the oldest coin i found that they'll have a hole at the top or the bottom because what they used to do in the 1617 and 1800s and way before is they would make necklaces out of them or they would represent something you know we don't wear coins anymore but that's a new trend the people have been wearing coins and in their culture i read a lot of the women who would get married and instead of giving them a ring, they would have this tin coin on a necklace and it was the equivalent to their wedding ring. So they'd drill the little hole in it.

And you wouldn't really appreciate it unless you found a lot of coins with holes in it at the top used as a necklace, which I have found many. So it's, so the depth of then, probably from his perspective of telling the story, it's even more meaningful than us thinking about somebody having a handful of quarters. That's right. If you lost your wedding ring, you know, now I lost mine. And look, I went through, well, I'm still going through the misery with my wife of losing that wedding ring. Because you can't replace it.

Right. It's like, how do you lose it? But if I ever find it, imagine the joy. You will call your friends and neighbors and have a celebration. I'll keep looking. Well, it's another reason I got into treasure, honey. You gotta keep searching. Maybe I can find that wedding ring one day.

All right, we're out of time. So if you want to follow us over to overtime, we're going to talk a little bit more about the treasure hunting aspect before we get into the two sons. So it's blazediv.com slash unashamed is where our overtime segments are. So we'll see you there. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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