Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 771 | Phil Relives a Real Scene from ‘The Blind’ & His Last Conversations with Big Al Bolen

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Phil recalls a scene from “The Blind” that features one of the last conversations he ever had with his old drinking buddy Big Al Bolen before his death, and Jase enjoys making the religious people squirm with a certain parable about money. The parable leads the guys to a discussion on earthly riches versus heavenly ones, and where the Pharisees in Jesus’ day went wrong in their hearts. In this episode: Luke 16, verses 1-18 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. I'm glad to have you guys along, as always. We were talking in between recordings because we record a couple, you know, and so we just got finished with, you know, the podcast from a couple days ago. And in between there, we were talking about that some folks that dad had baptized yesterday, day that because people come, and by the way, we've said come, you know, come to WFR if you want to. A lot of people have come there just to check it out, see if we're real people, which we are. Others have come to renew their life, which is a great blessing.

Some have come to be baptized, which we've encouraged that as well. Dad does an unashamed Bible study every 9 o'clock at WFR every Sunday, if he's in town, which is most Sundays. And so we've encouraged that. And dad, you were talking about a young man that had talked about as he was in the water there sharing some things that had happened to him in his past and things that he's, these burdens that he's carried. And it really touched me when you were telling us that because, you know, a lot of times transformation, obviously when we come to this point of submission to Christ and we're saying everything we've ever done, we want to give to Christ and we can be redeemed and freed. but it's also things that maybe have been done to us as well. It's about a release of people holding something over you or the evil one something holding over you. And so the burden that's lifted is not always just your own actions, it's any actions.

It's anything that's affected you in a negative way. At least I'm not, you know, part of our witness in the last podcast, Jace was talking about his family and what they've been able to do through what Mia has dealt with and they have dealt with with her, her whole life. For other people like us, sometimes it was bad decisions. And Lisa's been very open about some things that happened to her as a child that then affected how she viewed life, how she viewed people, led to her being a dishonest person. And then finally, when she relented and allowed God to remove what not only she had done in her past, but what other people had done to her, it totally transformed her into a different person.

So I do think that that's powerful. And for our audience out there to know that when you give up everything to Christ, it means everything. And things that maybe you've held on to, hurts, old things in your family, maybe a bad relationship with a parent, whatever,

all these can be given to Christ. And when renewal happens, that's when this transformation can take place. So that's a pretty big deal when you think about it. A good text to read. if you walk down into a pool of water, don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus

were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried with Him through baptism. That into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, this great text here, we too may live a new life. If we've been united with him in his death, we'll certainly also be united with him with his resurrection.

That's what goes on inside a pool of water. For we know that our old self, some will confess their sins while they're standing there in the water. And you remind them that all their sins are in just a moment will be washed away and God will give you his spirit to help you live a godly life in him. Anyone who has died has been freed from sin. So that death burial, it's a great thing. It's throughout the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.

At the end of all of them, Jesus died, was buried and raised from the dead. Jesus died was buried and raised from the dead. So that's what we preach. It is not hard to understand. It's a simple truth. And I'm happy to report that since that movie, the blind came out, me being one of the blind, that was me, blind, or in the duck blind.

But you say, you track it back to there. You just simply tell others what happened and the rest belongs to God. We're just servants to proclaim Jesus. That's all we are, just servants proclaiming the gospel. And dad, it was really, it was highlighted and so beautiful in the film because you literally, in the film, you come to this moment of recognition on the banks of the water that later, a little bit later in the film, you would be immersed into that that same later,

with the idea of giving up everything. But then I thought really what brought it all together in the movie was when your buddies show up and say, hey, we want you to go with us. Let's go out and drink and party again. And you said, the guy you're looking for is dead. Yep. You know, he's been put to death. I was speaking of my baptism, they all looking at each other like I'd gone nuts.

Yeah. Like you were crazy. One out of that little group, one. That's right. Twelve years later. the phone rang and he said, I need to talk to you.

I knew the way he said, I need to talk to you. Something was up in his life. And as it turned out, old Big Al obeyed the gospel. We had a driving around talking that what we'd done for years,

but usually with our fifth of whiskey between us. So all that was gone on my part and I pointed him to Jesus. He obeyed the gospel. two months later his life was taken from this earth but he made it that's right he made it so that's took him about 12 years now and i think that's just applies to people and i mean so many people where they are and what they need so but i don't that touched me and you were telling me about the guy

because we all come into this was something and the only thing that can redeem us is what Jesus did for us. That's really powerful and a powerful part of the film. So we've been in Luke chapter 15. And, Zach, you were not with us because you were doing, getting the movie out there when we talked about this chapter. And Jason and I both said that it's probably one of our favorite chapters in the whole Bible. And especially in the book of Luke, just because of the stories that Jesus tells. And of course, it's couched in this idea of what.

what we talked about in the last podcast. And that is, is that the flawed, the damaged, the people who the world looks at, and sometimes even religious leaders in this case, look at it and say, well, these people aren't worth spending time with. And so it starts with this idea about why does he eat with these centers and tax collectors? And so Jesus tells three stories, which, you know, are based on the idea that God seeks out those who are flawed and who are weak and who were imperfect. And so he tells the story first about lost sheep and how the idea of the one that he goes after

instead of the 99 who were there. Then he talked about the coins, which was, Jay's had some really interesting thoughts about that and the idea of the preciousness of that coin. And then finally, there were two sons. And we agreed that we were going to quit calling it the prodigal son story because it's really the lost sons, plural, because there are two sons involved in the story, one who goes away and squanders his inheritance, then the other one who stays, but who's embittered because of the young son and also at his dad. So that kind of got us into this mode of saying it was

kind of a TBD at the end because we don't really know what happens. The younger son, we know what happens. He comes back. He submits himself to Christ. He, you know, he does the right thing or submits himself to the father. But the older son, you know, he doesn't. He just kind of, Jesus kind of leaves it hanging, which will take us later on. But I was, I wanted to get your take on his accent since you weren't here to comment on that because you, you were kind of like me. I shared in the story that I was kind of the, even though I'm Jason's older brother, I was the younger son in the, in our life and story. And Jason had more of the tendency of the older brother, which she shared with.

But what's your take on Luke 15? Well, first of all, it's one of my favorite passages, too. We were talking about getting my take on them at the beginning. And Jay, so I don't know Zach's had time to read it, but, and I haven't studied it recently, but I'll tell you the one thing, because I have a hind on our study, but I'll tell you this, what I love about this passage, what, and I preached out of it several times over the last, you know, 15 years. But there's this one thing that happens in this story.

that I think is the basis for why you probably shouldn't call it the prodigal son. I love the point that y'all bring up that there's two sons here. And there's a little caveat in the story that this always like hit me really in a powerful way of understanding really what the Hebrew writer meant in Hebrews 12 when he says, let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfector of our faith, or the author and perfector of our faith, for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. And here's the thing that I want to point out that I love this, that when the son goes off, the one that was like us, the prodigal, he goes off and he squanders the inheritance,

he finds himself in the worst possible predicament. He's like he's so broken. He's so desperate. He's so entwined in his own depravity that he's looking at pig slop. And he's like, now that would be good to eat. I mean, that's how far this guy has fallen. And he has that moment where he's like, I mean, I got a, I got, I got, it's not even like he wants to change. It's almost just a pragmatic like, this is not good.

The hired servants and the servants and the slaves in my father's household have it better than I do here. So his intention was to go back to his father, not to say, hey, let me back in as a son. He wasn't like entitled in this moment. He's literally like, I'll take the scraps at my dad's house. I'll just be a servant there because even as a servant, I want to be better off than I am out here. So you kind of see his mentality. And so he comes back to the father. he's probably, I'm thinking, rehearsing in his mind,

okay, this is what I'm going to say. I'm going to tell him. I just want to be a servant. I'm going to beg him, and maybe he'll let me back in. Maybe he'll give me one of the lowest jobs on the totem pole. But his mindset is one of brokenness. And there's this moment. There's this incredible moment.

Y'all probably pointed this out that gives us a glimpse into the heart of God. And it also testifies who the author and perfector of our salvation is. It's that when he comes over the hill, and the father sees him while he was a long way off. And the father pursues him. The father takes off running after him. The father, before the son could even say anything that he probably had rehearsed in his head, before the son could plead his case, before the son had did anything.

The father was like, get the fat and cab, get the ring, my dead son is back and he's alive. And I love that because it puts all of the effort of our salvation. not on us. Thank God. It puts it on the Father. The Father is the one who initiates. The father's the one that pursues. And so I think it's just important to remember who is the author of salvation. You know, we get a question a lot because sometimes you'll hear Phil or somebody might say that they converted somebody. But they don't mean that, I mean, God's doing the converting. I mean, it is all God, all Him. All we mean by that is that we're just vehicles of sharing that message. but it's always God that does it.

Ambassadors. We're ambassadors. Yeah. So I love that story, Al, Phil, Jays, because I feel like it puts into picture form the beauty of a God who accomplishes our salvation. And the reason why that's important, because in my heart, I know that I can't accomplish it. So, man, I love the fact that all I do is turn.

I just turn to the, you turn to the living God. I want the scraps and the and the father runs after you and the father prepares the banquet before you even really have anything to have a chance to say anything he comes he comes to you and I think that's important when we're discussing you know our own coming to Christ when you only come to Christ really he comes to you and then you respond and one of the things we pointed out as well Zach was that when the older brother who reacts you know strongly when he hears that the younger brothers come back and he's not positive about it. Yeah.

The father also goes to him. And Jace made this point. We talked about it. Just like he did to the younger son, he goes to the older son. Because you'd think he would be like, oh, that sour puss, you know, just let him sit out there and stew it a little bit. He didn't. He went to him and he pleaded with him as a son.

You know, look, this, this son of yours is return. We have to celebrate because this is what, you know, this is what it's all about. And so I love it that God is so merciful that even when we respond in the negative ways to something good and something positive where angels are rejoicing in heaven, he still comes to us in that place too, which is very powerful. It shows his long suffering with us. Yeah, he also, he went after the one sheep. You know what I mean? He, he, he, again, God, I think the message here is God goes after. God goes after us. And the reason why the other son, his issue, was that he thought that somehow the inheritance was based on his effort. And he's like, but I've done all these things. That's right. And I've done the right thing.

And so he sees the grace that's given to the other son. And what he doesn't get is everything you got anyways, you didn't earn it. It's your dad's, you know what I mean? That's his hard work. That's his accomplishments. That's not your accomplishments. That's his. So he'd missed that.

And I think that's why the grace of God is the great leveler. You know what I mean? It's like the blood of Christ is the great leveler. We tend to want to judge ourselves based on somebody else. But if we judge ourselves based on the Word of God, then we all really kind of stand in the position of the prodigal. Yeah. Yeah.

Everybody stands in that position. Everybody has sinned, according to Paul, and falling short of God's glory. all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and are justified freely by grace, not by our merit or by our effort or work. Not that works not important. It's just not the means of your salvation. Right. Well, on the underlying theme to this whole story, the backdrop is humans putting their confidence

in the pursuit of earthly material possessions and money. I mean, that's kind of what it's about. instead of things that will last. I mean, Jesus' new kingdom that he's introducing is you use all your earthly stuff for heavenly reasons. That's why he's constantly saying, give all your money away. Yeah. You know, go to the lower places of honor at the table.

When you have a banquet, invite everybody. And so you see a lot of undercurrent themes here, and one of them is that each individual is valuable. I mean, I think the number one thing I like, about this. It's in response to why Jesus, the king of king, savior of the world, greatest character of any adult that's ever walked the earth, he's being ridiculed in question because he's eating with what religious people are calling lower class citizens. if you're if you're somebody you don't eat with these types of people and we're so racially divided and we're so socially divided you know in our world even today you just you see a need

for Jesus and the things that he brings to bring people together in heaven and that's what that that speaks to me because I'm like once you put yourself at that table with him well that takes a whole new meaning i mean he came down here for each and every individual of which i am one it was a pretty a was a pretty provoking thought in the context of what's going on here because you think about if if you're if you're part of israel if you're jewish then you are god's chosen people you know what i mean and but one of the big things that jesus's ministry brought was kind of this mind-blowing idea that he actually came to bring all the nations to him. It wasn't just one people group, which, by the way, Jesus, he explains this in the New Testament,

but man, think about how many verses in the Old Testament, talk about God's desire for the nations. Think about, you know, go read the book of Isaiah. We're going to Isaiah's prophecies right now, and I'm like, I mean, it's just, one after another of God having a desire for the nations. And so when you think about this expansive kingdom that is bigger than one people group that encompasses all people groups across all the world, and you say, what is the two things that people, well, one thing that we all have in common and another thing that we could have in common,

one thing that we all have in common is that we all stand equally guilty before a holy God. And that's the great, you can't go and look at your brother with, or look at any other human being with disdain and prejudice if you understand your own position. Once you understand your own position in creation, meaning that you understand that you stand, now you fall guilty. One of the things that draws a better, I get a better feeling when I understand the son in verse 21, 1521. The son said to him, Father, I've sinned again.

heaven and against you, he knew what was right and wrong, I'm no longer worthy to be called your son, but the father said to his servants, and it's one of the few times where it made me feel good that God moves quickly, because here, quick, bring, this is God talking, bring the best robe and put it on him, put a ring on his finger. sandals on his feet bring the fat and calf and kill it let's have a feast and celebrate now look how things are changing once god steps into the picture for this son of mine was dead and is alive again he was lost and is found so they begin to celebrate i like that about god he moves quickly if you're wondering about where is God? He said he's there right in your face. Look what he's done for you.

I'm so glad you brought that up because there were a couple of passages I didn't get a chance to read. Before we moved to 16, I wanted to talk about this, this idea because the son, when he was in the pig pen, he said, you know, I don't have any right. If I can just be accepted back as a servant, that's good enough. But you're right. When he came to Christ, when he came to God, he was made a son. And I want to read a couple of passes. Which was real quick, was not his expectation. I mean, I think that's key.

His expectation was, I just want to get in. And he had not, he had not said those words yet. And the father had actually had embraced him first. It saw him a long way off. Yeah. Embraced him. And then he comes back and says that. But his expectation was not, I mean, he must have been blown away at the father's

response after his verbal confession. He must have been blown away by that. He was. And the reason I know he was is because I was too, because that's how I was accepted. Listen to this, Romans 8, verse 12. Therefore, brothers, Paul tells the Romans, we have an obligation, but is not to the flesh, the sinful nature, to live according to it, because that's what this younger brother was doing.

For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, which is what he realized, right, in that pickpin. But if by the spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. Because those who are led by the spirit of God are sons of God. And that's what the father made him, his son. He reinstitute, he restored him. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave. Because see, he was like, if I can just be a slave, that's good enough. But God said, no, you're more than that. Not makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the spirit of sonship. and by him we cry, Abba, Father,

the Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. And if we're children, then we're heirs, heirs of God, co-hears with Christ, if indeed we share in His sufferings in order that we may also share in His glory. No matter how bad it is,

you can climb out of it, and you can climb out of it in a hurry. That's right. Well, yeah. Because God's in a hurry to save you. Yeah, and offers that idea of sonship. Let's take another break. Well, I had the same thought, Al, you know, when he said, this son of mine, you know,

we started talking about Phil was talking about this guy who comes up to him with, you know, bad things that happened to him when he was a child. And abuse happens, unfortunately, every day in our culture. And so not only do you got to deal with the mistakes that you make as an adult, you have all this baggage that was thrust on you because we live in an evil world. But in Galatians 3, speaking of this, in verse 26, it says, you are all sons of God, which seems weird at first because you think, well, what about the women? And he says, through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ,

have clothed yourself with Christ, which that phrase just, we read over it, but what a profound statement that you're putting on Christ, you're clothing yourself, who had all this injustice done to him. And despite all that, because of his love and the purpose of the father,

went to a cross, insult, rebuke, persecution, sins of the world on his back. And to do that because of love is really the only way you can look at things that happen in your childhood and the injustices that happen and say, you know what, for the sake of God creating me for a purpose, I'm going to let that go. I'm going to bury that. And so then it says, then it gets into this same thing. There's neither Jew or Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you're all one in Christ Jesus.

And he explains that when he gets to the next chapter in verse four. In verse two, it says he is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. So also when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. all know what it means to be a slave to sin you know ephesians too kind of says that but when the time had fully come god sent his son born of a woman born under law to redeem those under law that we might receive the full rights of sons because you are sons same type of verse that i'll just

read because you are sons god sent the spirit of his son into our hearts the spirit he calls out father, Abba father. So you are no longer a slave but a son, and since you are a son, God has made you also an error, which gets back to this underlying principle of using earthly situations, circumstances, material possessions, money, or even bad things that happen to you. You use this as a catalyst to realize Jesus came here for you. God wants you to be a son and then you experience eternal inheritance, which is everything God has. Yeah.

You are now having access to. Well, you know, if you think about the, if you're in a position and you think, man, I've made a mess of my life and I'm this, I am this guy eating the pig slop. You think what do I do? Because that's the big question. I think people think is, what do I do? I was thinking what you guys are even describing is this, what you get is the sunship. You get, you get that. But our response is so important because what we want to do is we want to say, okay, let me, let me go make things right.

You know, let me go, let me, like, do a lot of good things and, and hopefully kind of give enough time between, you know, that whatever the big sin you did was. And let's get some time between us. and then maybe I can be right with God. Like one of the young kids at church this Sunday asked his parents if he could take communion. He said, I've been good all week. Can I take communion? I'm like, man, what an opportunity to share with him what communion is all about. That's right.

It's so great. I love it. I love kids getting to see communion and baptism because it gives an opportunity to ask questions and you can share the gospel. But, man, listen to this in Psalms 51, which is a Psalm that David wrote after David had committed adultery with Bashiba, and he had also committed murder, murdered her husband, and was called out, you know, by a prophet who basically read his mail and told him, you're the guy. You're the, you're the one that's wrong here, the one that you wanted to punish.

He gave him this big story, and he's like, you're that guy. And when he heard this and he understood the weight of the sin in this moment, the only thing that he could do was repent. And he wrote this Psalm that we sing in church growing up a lot. It's created me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence. You can get the same imagery of the son, the prodigal son, or take your Holy Spirit from me. Restore to me the joy of your salvation.

By the way, your salvation. And grant me a willing spirit to sustain me. then I'll teach transgressors your ways so that sinners will turn back to you. Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, oh God, because he was a murderer. You are my God, my Savior, and my tongue will sing of your righteousness. Open my lips, Lord, and open my mouth, and my mouth will declare your praise. And this is the part I love, because we want to bring the sacrifices in. We want to start.

What are going to do? This is what he says here. Here's the promise from God. You do not delight in sacrifice, or I'd bring it. You do not take pleasure in burnt offerings. My sacrifice, oh, God, is this. It's a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. You, God, will not despise.

That is a promise. And I think that's what you see in the heart of God here. We don't bring anything to God except a broken spirit and a contrite heart. And I like that. I don't like that. I take a lot of comfort in that because there's been a lot of times in my life when my spirit has been crushed and a lot of times because of my own sin. Man, how awesome is it that we have a promise in scripture that if I come to my God

with a broken spirit and a contrite heart, he will not despise me. In fact, he will bring me in and make me a son again and again and again. He reaffirms I am his son. And that is a great spirit to live in with this promise of God, as I think, played out here in the story of the prodigal son. Well, and think about that, the passage I read in Romans, and the one I'm glad Jay's had written down Galatians 3 right after that that you went to, great minds, I guess. But think about that, the picture of the gifts that he gave him, that what they symbolize

in those later passages, he says, Jay's read that you're clothed with Christ. And what did the father do? He puts this new robe on him to signify that he's a son, that that pig poo. that he had been, you know, in was covered by Christ's sacrifice. Then that ring is put on his finger, which we talked about being a symbol of empowerment, because now you wear the ring of the father. So you're a true son. And when I think about power and how we're empowered, I think about the Holy Spirit that God gives us,

that gives us now the power to be able to be like him. And then the idea of the fat and calf, which is Zach, you just mentioned, the idea of sacrifice for celebration, that ultimately because of a sacrifice, we have been made clean. Therefore, we can celebrate and show other people. So even in the gifts that he gives the son to show his sonship, we see that same picture that's given to us. And then again, even though the older brother doesn't react and respond the way that he should,

the father even still opens up that opportunity for him, which I think ultimately takes us to chapter 16. Yeah, well, because I think he was using the older brother as an illustration of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. Correct. In the story. He addressed why he's eating with the tax collectors and sinners, and I think that was the prodigal son, the young son. And then the older brother, I think he was talking to them because then he kind of continues in chapter 6. 16, because you're going to see before we read it, that verse 14, it says, the Pharisees who loved money heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.

So he's bringing these parables up to not only convict us through his love and forgiveness, but he's also, you got to remember the Pharisees, they're made by God also. and he's trying to present his case to them. That's right. So I think when we get into these, the word that comes to my mind, we get to chapter 16, because there's three different instances here. The first parable that he's going to tell,

he aims at his disciples. He says in verse one, Jesus told his disciples, and I'll read in just a minute. But as Jason mentioned, we get down to 14, the Pharisees who overhear what he just told his disciples, all of a sudden, they're like, wait a minute.

You know, is he talking to us? You know, and so then he addresses them, which we'll talk about. And then when you get to verse 19, I think he's going to lay out a choice that would apply to disciples, Pharisees, or anybody. The choice is real simple. Are you living for this life? Are you preparing for the next one? And so I think he lays out three different ideas here as we break them down. and it really boils down to a choice.

And it makes sense when you think about it because he just painted this picture where the Pharisee was listening to him tell the story about the two sons. They're going to relate much more to the older son because he looks like exactly what they're all about. Yeah, why would you honor people who squander what's good? We're like that guy. So he knows they're relating to him. And I think that's why he comes back with this next story. I agree, but I do think that each one has the same thing in common, which to go back to kind of the context of what Jesus is doing before his death,

he's introducing this eternal kingdom. Well, when you say that, if something is eternal, we know by this earth, even, you know, if you're not a believer or not, this thing's going to wear out. It's temporary. Yep. This is not an eternal. earth unless something eternal were to transform it.

That's the only way that's going to happen. And so he's given these illustrations on you really have two choices. Are you going to live for the temporary? Or are you going to be open-minded to what I'm bringing, which is something eternal? And so it's like every one of these parables or stories or however you want to classify the rich man and Lazarus because there's a big debate whether that's a story or a parable

because you got a real name dropped in here, which I think he did that on purpose because things that are eternal, if you're known by God, well, you're eternal. I mean, so of course it would make sense to use a real name. But I do think that's the theme of what he's introducing. seen about the kingdom. No, I agree. And I think this first passage we're going to read is a little, I guess you would call

it controversial because, again, if you took it out of the context, Jesus was trying to tell it in, it would seem like he was being, he was uplifting dishonesty, which he's not. He's just painting a picture for them to understand out of the world. But I think the question is the who and why you choose to serve, because he paints it in a worldly picture and said, well, this is why worldly people do it. So why wouldn't, why wouldn't we be as zealous as worldly people in our, in our approach to the kingdom? I think is the point he's trying to make.

No, I thought the same thing. I love it when Jesus tells a story that makes religious people, even in modern day, uncomfortable. That's right. It's like the least, the least preached miracle is when Jesus changes the water to wine. Yeah. Because it makes a lot of religious people uncomfortable. they're like, you don't say, well, that couldn't have been real wine.

You know, it's just like, so just, you know, we are what we are. And I do think the story of the older brother in Luke 15, which a lot of religious groups defend, as in said, now he was perfectly fine. Nothing wrong with him. I read it. Read the scholars. There's a lot of them that, who I think have legalistic. fair-sacal tendencies if you're going to defend the older brother in that story.

I'm trying to be open-minded about it, but I just can't be. I just think they missed it. And so this story and the story of Lazarus and the rich man, it makes religious people very uncomfortable. Because they're like, one guy was loaded. He went to hell. You know, the other guy had nothing. He was a beggar and he didn't. and for different reasons that just makes people feel uncomfortable.

So what I read out in my research, which I wanted to make this point, is most of what I read from the scholars and from different denominations, was what Jesus didn't mean rather than what he means. That's right. So I found it quite comical. And, I mean, look, it was not a story I was familiar with. I don't know if you were, but I'm sure I've read it before, but before we did this, I read it.

And I was like, hmm, what a weird story. That's right. I told them yesterday morning, I said, some of you may be wondering who you'll be. You said, well, who will I be? Once I'm baptized, they had raised their hands that they want to be baptized. They heard the gospel, but they said, I won't end. And they basically, I told them, I said, look, when you're wondering who you are, just tell them you're a member of the kingdom.

And I walked over to the board and I pointed to Jesus. I said, and he's the king. That's who you'll be. That's so weird because I had somebody asked me yesterday, who will I be if I come to Christ? They asked me the same identical question. I gave a different answer, but that one would have been good. I said, you'll know where you came from, you'll know what you're doing here, and you'll know where you're headed.

that was my answer. Attributes of the kingdom. Well, exactly. I just went to the source. I said, he's your king, the one right here, the one who died for you and was raised for you. Well, I just said, you want to read this story? Yeah, I was going to read it. So, because I think what you just said is exactly what he's trying to get across to his disciples.

Remember, this is who it's aimed towards in this story. So he tells his disciples, there was a rich man whose manager was accused of wasted. his possessions. So he called him in and he asked him, what is this I hear about you? Give an account of your management because you cannot be manager any longer. So what he's saying is, is he's firing him, but he wants him to bring in the audit first. And so this guy knows now he's done. The jig is up.

This made me realize this is probably where they got the idea to do that show, the apprentice. Yeah. You're fired. Every time I think the world comes up with some novelty idea, I get to reading in the Bible somewhere. And he brings him in and he's like, you're fired. So not only does he tell him that up front, but now he's got to go and show him what he's not been doing. So the manager says to himself, verse three, what shall I do now? My master is taking away my job.

So he gets it. I'm not strong enough to dig. I love the honesty of this. Don't give me a shovel. Don't give me a shovel. I'm too ashamed to beg. So I can't dig. I can't beg.

I know what I'll do. So he comes up with a plan. So that when I lose my job here, people will welcome me into their houses. So he hatches a plant. So he calls in each of his master's debtors. And he asked the first, how much do you owe my master? 800 gallons of olive oil. He replies a lot of olive ball.

The manager told him, take your bill, sit down quickly and make it 400. So he cuts his bill in half. Then he asked the second one, how much do you owe? A thousand bushels of wheat. It's a lot of wheat. He told them, take your bill and make it 800. So he does a 20% cut there. Verse 8.

The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly for the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of light. That's a really important part of this whole context, I think. And then he says in verse 9, and remember he's talking to his disciples, I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings. Now, Jace, that's the verse that makes the religious world super uncomfortable. And then in verse 10, he says, whoever can be trusted,

with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. So if you have not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? And if you have not been trustworthy with someone else's property, who will give you property of your own? No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money. Now, we mentioned what the response is going to be. Before we get there, I want to flesh out this first thought just to the disciples

and kind of what we think he was trying to. What's the point he's trying to get across to him? Yeah, I drew a line when it said, I'm devoted to, and then I'll put a blank. and when it says those who let's see what did that say again in 13 no servant can serve two masters either he will hate the one love the other

or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other you cannot serve both God and money so when you look at your life if you put I am devoted to if there's anything other than God it's going to mean you despise God right if you're devoted to God well you despise what money could do to you or you despise but you could put good thing I mean there's nothing wrong with money you know you can put I'm devoted to my wife but if that's more important than God I'm probably going to despise God at some point

Because what happens when I lose her or what happens when she does me wrong? So it's a really radical statement. And it's done in a story that makes us say, wait, what? Because the Pharisees who loved money heard all this and they were sneering at Jesus. Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, ultimately, he's going to get to them. They're hitting the home run when he starts talking about.

the power of money. So here's what I think his point is. This is just my take. And it could be wrong. So he tells the story. And a little bit of background, I think, helps in the sense that, you know, the Jews, it was very, in law, they couldn't have interest and what they would call usury on the people. They weren't supposed to do that.

So the way they get around that, which, by the way, Jesus never commends the man. for being dishonest, either the owner or the manager. What he condemns is how they worked out where they were going to land. And so I think that's what the whole thing is talking about. So what they would do to get around not have an interest, instead of you paying back money, interest on money, which you could not do under law, what you would do is you say, you know, you owe me a certain amount of money. So I tell you what, you give me, you know, however many barrels of olive oil.

and that way I can charge you more without having to have an interest on it. So the owner is dishonest and the manager are dishonest, but the owner looks at the manager and says, well, you're pretty slick. So what you did was I've been slicking people out of interest, but now you slick me because how could I get you back? Because you're doing something that I could do anyway. So I think what Jesus is saying is because the manager was preparing for where he would wind up, he says, that's the way I want you disciples to be. And then because he goes into the whole thing then about when you can be trusted with a little, you can be trusted with a lot.

So the whole thing he's trying to tell his disciples is you should have the same ingenuity resources putting into what you will be in the kingdom as what you have right now. And so I think that's the simple part of the point that he's trying to get across to his disciples. Well, I agree with your conclusion 100%. Now, I don't think it really matters about the interest. I think my take on it was, I mean, we arrive at the same conclusion. I just got there a little differently. Right. Which was he basically had the wrong attitude.

And here's why I concluded what I'll tell you is, you know, I didn't agree with when he said, my master's taken away my job. That's in verse three. What are you talking about? You haven't been doing your, he's blaming the master for him not doing his job. I got fired. He took away my job. Well, it sounds like the facts, you didn't do your job.

That's right. But then he commends him because what that, so once that the gavel has been struck, he then realized, well, what am I going to do? So what he did was he used the master and him firing him by gaining friends by counseling their accounts. Because then, so he's going to lose the job, but then he's going to go to all the, Guys, he just made this deal with because they look at him as like, awesome. They just saved him a tremendous, I mean, he saved them a tremendous amount of money. So he's going to start his own business.

And he's going to, he basically went the relationship route for his next venture. He took his clients. You know, if you were looking at this like a law firm type of deal, he did his manager wrong on multiple fronts here. and even though he got some of it back, he won them over because he's like, look, I made the deal. Remember that time when I saved you out of them? Well, now I got another venture that I'm going to do. And I think that's what Jesus is telling the parable to say, look, think of the heavenly inheritance here. You need to use all of this worldly wealth and all these arguments that, you know, come up and all the deals that you're,

You need to find eternal rewards in those transactions. What's going to happen next? Because if you put it all in the basket of what happens on the earth, where are you going to go to? That's what he says. This is verse 9. He says that. He says, basically, you're going in there and you're doing all these dealings and you're using your wealth to get all these friends. And that's great because when it fails, I mean, when that comes to an end, depending on the translation, you

have when that happens. That's going to fail you. Then he says, you'll, you'll have the, the eternal, how does he say, welcomed into eternal dwellings.

So it's almost like you're saying, you know how shrewd you guys are? I mean, that's awesome, how shrewd you are in business. Yeah. And that doesn't hardly even matter. Like,

I mean, that's, that's a, that's a small, small, small, little thing compared to what, what we're talking about here in this eternal dwelling,

this eternal kingdom. It's a much bigger picture, much bigger picture. And that's why he kind of comes back to it when he says, like the idea is if you, if you can be trusted with a little, then you can be trusted with a lot. And if you are dishonest with a little, you'll be dishonest with a lot. Because a lot of people, a lot of people, completely myself, we tell ourselves this, when I get, then I'll do.

When this happened, oh, the only reason why you do that is because you have that. And I'm always attaching what I'm going to do to what I have. But I look at like, you know, Phil and Kay, you guys came up this weekend. Someone asked you all about hospitality. Man, y'all are, y'all are pouring it out when you had nothing. You know, I mean, you were feeding people when you had nothing. You were, so when that grows into more, well, what it grows into it is just more giving, more hospitality in the same way. If I'm stingy you with nothing, if I'm stingy when I'm poor, I'm going to be stingy when I'm rich.

And it's the same principle here of what he's trying to paint it. I think he's trying to paint a picture of is what does eternal shrewdness look like. Take that emphasis and put it on the kingdom and see what happens. Which, of course, yeah, the Pharisees were missing. All right, so we're out of time. But we'll talk a little bit more about this in our overtime segment. If you want to follow us over, blazedtv.com slash unashamed is where you find our overtime. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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