Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 774 | Phil's Low-Tech Lifestyle Sparks an Absolute Wedding Debacle & Jase Can't Stop Laughing

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

Phil’s solo journey across multiple parishes with absolutely zero information about his destination is the stuff of a legend that only Phil can pull off. Jase struggles to explain the meaning of the word “woke” to Phil, and the guys discuss the greatest injustice that ever happened. Jase unveils his theory about the “parable” of the rich man and Lazarus, and the text reveals a window into both heaven and hell. In this episode: Luke 16, verses 19-31; Philippians 3, verses 19-21; Philippians 4, verse 2; Ephesians 5, verse 42; Romans 12, verse 19 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm here at the Southern Lair yet again, at least and I are super busy into our travel schedule. So this is kind of base of operations this week. But Dad, I have to ask you because last week, Jersey Joe and Christine spent a few days with us down here at the Lair before we had to head out of town and start our travel schedule, but I understand that I helped Joe do some wedding notes because he was doing the ceremony for his daughter. And so I got a text that everybody was so thrilled because you actually came to the wedding

because you don't make a lot of weddings. You're not really a wedding guy. So. You went to a wedding, Phil? I took a nap. Oh, boy. And the women said, there's he, Joe. And he told me, said, I'd really like for you to.

come to the wedding of my daughter and he said he he he he he helped him with some stuff on the how to do these marriage ceremonies and I said yeah I don't know there you know I normally don't even go to weddings of my own family members yeah which is embarrassing yeah so I thought you know so I said so I just took a nap and everybody left to go to the wedding. Well, I got up and I thought, well, I said, I wonder what time that wedding was. So I don't know why this is this funny. I get in my rig.

I don't have an address to where the wedding is. I mean, Louisiana's not a gigantic state, but, you know, you have to know where you're going. Yeah. So I go out by White's Fair Road. You have no idea where the wedding is. I had no idea. You don't have your cell phone.

I don't have on the cell phone. I know. So I said, well. He thought it was in farmable. So you were driving around looking for wedding. I go to a town about 30 miles from Monroe, West Monroe. And I pulled over to a filling station and asked somebody. I said, there's a wedding taking place.

And I think there was something about a wood road. go up the wood road. She said, wait a minute. Can I have a picture of you? Oh, good, great. I said, well, no, I'm just trying to get this wedding. She's standing there. I'm standing there with a woman, you know,

the filler station woman. She took a couple of snapshots, and she said, I got the police on the, on my, they said, you need to go back to the direction you came here. And they directed me to, Sterlington. Really?

So I'm driving along going to Sterling. I got a question. How does the police know where old Jersey Joe's daughter's getting married? Because they just wanted to know the name of the road was there a road with wood in it. Oh, so they looked it up. Yeah, they looked it up and they said, yeah, it's right out here. And they pointed the way. So you were, how far away?

I took off and I drove to Sterlington. How far were you from Sterlington when you got this into? About 10 miles. Oh, all right. 10 or 12 miles. I'm pretty surprised you got when they 10 miles. He got in the general vicinity. So you've...

I come back, I say, I thought that wedding's not here. Of course, I'm looking for... You're looking for a wedding. I'm looking for a lot of cars or trucks, parking lines out in front of a kind of a church bill looking thing. I said, maybe that's where it is. So I got back, came back the way I came. and I took off and I went on in the farmable. I went north.

I came out of the south looking. I pulled in front of a, it was an old folks home, but the cars were stacked up out there. Well, I'd have took off from there. Oh, yeah, I got out and looked around. I made wheelchairs looking at me. And I said, I wasn't the world. I said, it ain't I waiting.

So I just kept on going. Well, I went north toward Junction City. That's in Arkansas. I said, well, let me just go a couple of miles out on each one of them. So I went from the south. I didn't see any cars stacked up. I went north and five miles, thin, no. Time's clicking.

Yeah. I finally get back in there. I said, you know what? I'm a motel Jersey Joe. He said he'd appreciate it if I went to his daughter's wedding. He did the ceremonies. Yeah. He went to the courthouse and it was, they gave him to wherever.

with all to marry people. So I finally get on a road going toward Bernice. Yeah. So you were leaving now. I'm leaving. I left Farmerville. Yeah. And then you left Stalington.

I got along out there about 10 miles out of that town. And I looked over there. Cars lined up a little bit. I said, wait a minute here. So I took a hard left. I pulled back up in there. and I started looking on fence posts and whatever, because sometimes they'll put their names on a post.

I said, so I looked at a post. It said, welcome, wedding, Amanda, and somebody else. I said, what is the name of that one? His daughter. So now you found a wedding, but you don't know her name. I mean, so I said, I said, I think maybe, this is a long shot, but somebody was just pulling in.

I walked over that to them and I said, they knew me, but I never seen them for them. A lot of people know you, Dad. Yeah, I walked over and I said, is there going to be a wedding here? And they said, yeah, you're here.

And I said, was the girl's name, Amanda? They said, her name's Amanda. I said, I have found the wedding. And I just eased up there. And people were looking at them. And I got on the back row sitting there before Jersey. They got wind pretty up pretty quick. You made it.

So you made it to the wedding? I made it to the wedding and had 10 minutes to spare. Well, that's one of the most incredible stories I've ever heard. I've never been led in a vehicle like that. I'd say, well, what about this? And turn left. I was guessing, but it was going through my mind. but I don't know.

You talk about a, I was stunned. I have to say that this, the, the legend of your tracking skills just went up a whole not, because it must have been from all the years in the woods of tracking things down that you would just take off and really not know where you're going and find a wedding that's two parishes away from our parish. I mean, that's unbelievable. That's right. I was so shocked that when I finally did pull out and head for the house after the wedding,

Jersey Joe said that means more to him than he said than anything I've ever done. He said, I'm glad you came. I said, well, he said, you pointed me in the right direction, you know. Yeah. He thanked me profusely. Well, he sees you. Showing up at the wedding. Miss Kay and him came.

Here they are. I am there looking at me. He's like, how in the world, you get here? I said, you wouldn't believe it if I told you. but I didn't have a map, so I was just kind of guessing. I'm trying to figure out why you went to Stirlington, and that had nothing to do with the wedding. Because the woman in the filling station,

when I said, have you ever heard of her? No, I got it, but that was wrong. So it wasn't in Stirlington. Wasn't in Sturlington. I just turned around and went back on the road. It hits Highway 2 over there. Oh, yeah, I'm familiar. But I just, man, you're talking about it.

It's almost like you had divine in the way. Well, I had to because it's a needle in the haystack. Do you realize how many streets have the name wood in it? I do now. Did the street have the word wood in it? I was looking for something that said Wood Lane or whatever. But that wasn't it. I just heard Kay talking.

It said, wouldn't it out there? The Wood Lane is what they said. Well, where it was. Oh, man. It wasn't there. I can't believe you just pulled that off. You guessed and hit it. I guessed and I guessed and I guessed.

And I finally just looked and saw the, in a turn around and then I pulled back in and looked. I said, well, I said, Lord. If you get a cell phone, Phil, you could actually type in Wood Lane and see what came up. Do you mean to get you one for Christmas? It's more trouble. That's why he doesn't do weddings. I guessed it going to the wedding. I made it.

to the wedding. You made it. So I guess why. Not an address. The reason I asked, because I didn't know the story, which is hilarious, but Joe sent me a text and said,

ask your dad on the podcast about coming to the wedding. He said, it's one of the funniest things you'll ever hear. And he was correct. That was amazing. And like I said, it was divided intervention or your tracking skills that you would take off, launch into,

I mean, you got to understand folks listening. Where dad's talking about is like, 45 minutes to an hour away from where he lived. I haven't been there in a decade. Yeah, you were almost back where the movie was made. You were back in our old stomping ground. Yeah.

Yep. Which is amazing. All right. Well, Jay's top that one. No, there's no top him now. I'm just amazed that you always feel is always talking about he's a, what do you say? I'm a low-tech guy. In a high-tech world.

It's friction there. That's, that is. Yeah. I don't think we need as much as I'm watching go by. I think we're just a little bit. You got a few points. They start whole movements, you know, just on one, somebody running his mouth or something. And we're most fortunate, I think, reading the Bible, and there's enough people there

to make that, you know, okay. But I was shocked that the people on these cell phones that many would tune in. I was shocked. Well, it's because, look, for you can. They said I was non-woke. Oh, boy. Whatever that means. Like, you woke up, you slept over.

Would that mean you sleep? I'm not sure why that, I don't know where that name. But dad, you did. Whatever wake up is, they said, this fool is not on it. You did open that story where I was taking a nap, so that would make you non-woke right there. So maybe that's what you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know where the phrase come from.

Do you, no, I don't. I think it's, I assume that they mean that they've been, people have been just sleeping through whatever, but now they're woke. You know, they've woken up to the way things are to this kind of new way of living, which is, and that's, So we still have not woke up yet. Right, we're still sleeping. It actually said, it's a picture of me sitting there, and Dan showed to me, and it says, it was something about that, the movie they just made, and it was a hit, and they were talking about, how could it be a hit if he hadn't woke up yet?

He's not, he's not woke. How did he do it? How did they do it? They were amazed. So here's the definition, according to Miriam Webster. It's aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues, especially issues of racial and social justice. But I didn't reach that level according to the, whoever wrote what he wrote.

Yeah. He just said he hasn't woken. He's not woke. Oh, yeah. So was it a negative like you should be waking up or you should be more aware? I had the feeling that he didn't think I was on the not, not woken. Well, you know, it's kind of funny. You say that about the movie because the somebody.

He was shocked. There was an audience for a non-woke picture. Yeah. Well, and that's what a lot of people told me don't read the reviews. But look what the people think. And, you know, Zach mentioned the rotten. made us, which is 99% of the people that saw the film and commented on it, loved it. And so, but the apparently critics who are just people who watch a movie who don't know you

or don't know anything about you, they said it was they didn't like it is what someone told me. I didn't, I'm like Jace. I don't read the criticism. So I don't get a lot of that. Let's take our first break. Well, I wasn't known what, I still don't know what the woke is, but Dan from time to time just holds his cell phone in front of my face and I'm sitting there.

Well, that's when you need to just cover your eyes up and scream. Yeah. Well, Dad, because now, I mean, what is it really made? I'm looking at our culture and if woke is what that is, that's not healthy. Well, a lot of this, right. For your eternal life. A lot of the racial stuff you're seeing kind of came out of this woke thing with the systemic racism, those terms.

There's been a lot of new vocabulary that people have just kind of made up. And supposedly that makes you... I haven't caught up with it because I don't look at the cell phone. I don't have one. So somehow another, I didn't sign up to be like that. Right. I just point people to Jesus. He removed our sin and going to raise us from the dead for crying out loud.

I'm thinking that's better than woke. Here's your first, Dad. Ephesians 514, for it is light that makes everything visible. That's why it said, wake up, oh, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you. Now, that to me is woke. There you go. But whoever wrote that article, they're like, nah. You idiot.

You call a Jesus? It comes back to your story. When you woke up, you then pulled off one of the greatest finds or adventures, I guess, that you could ever imagine. It happened. I'm very impressed. Well, what happens? This technology makes you,

it kind of enables you where you don't know. It's like now when people, they'll say, what is your phone number? Well, I don't know my phone number. Because in the phones, it's all by name. So when somebody calls me, I have a name there. And the reason the benefit of that is if you don't know the person, well, you don't answer the phone.

but if the name, like if Al called me right now, when I looked at my phone, it wouldn't be a number. It would say, Al. So I would answer it. But the problem of that is, you don't know anybody's number. Right. So if I was in, if I got, you know, if I got kidnapped or whatever and they, or let's say I wound up in jail and they said, we'll give you one phone call.

Well, I wouldn't be able to call anybody because I don't know anybody's number. I don't have anybody's number. Well, I don't either. Including my own. Well, I have 100. Well, you don't have a number. What number are you? I'm like, well, you don't have a number.

But I'm saying, I only have names, but I don't have numbers. So I wouldn't be able to call anybody. Well, it's the same thing about traveling now. So what we do, the normal people, Phil, is we'll put in an address in our phone. And the phone will direct you. And there's several sites. that do this. I mean,

my favorite is a thing it's called Waze. Yeah. Because they not only tell you where you're going. Look, they have a cartoon version of your travel.

And so you're looking at that. And you're just staying on the line. And if a cop's coming up, they'll say, and Missy hers, because she went with me to Houston this past weekend for the Mighty Oaks.

Yeah, I want to hear about that. Yeah. But she has like a British voice. It's a male British voice. And I love it because it's like one mile ahead, turn right. But it's very intense. I'm not into it. No, I like it.

Because that way you... I'm trying to figure out why. And then he'll say, police ahead. I mean, it's... I mean, it's drama. It's dramatic. Dad, don't you Well, Missy

Don't you want the Brits telling you what to do, Dad, didn't we fight a revolution about that? Jason's back in the colony. Wow, this thing, I've ever heard something rip telling you were turn in turn. With Passionville. It's like, well, that's what I needed the other day. I needed somebody sitting in the back doing that. Well, what happened was, so when I, we got in Missy's car, you know,

she didn't have the sound on because she just watches the cartoon. but I'm easily distracted, especially with my lovely wife. That's what I told her to get out of that. So if I'm not woke, I said, put the voice up. What am I missing, Jason? Well, I was trying to make a point. Somebody said I wasn't woke, and I just figured out, well, what am I missing for not being?

No, you're not missing. No, you're not missing. Well, I think now, well, I didn't know what it meant, but after reading, after reading, now. I don't have the Middle Eastern cat. Who were you talking about saying, you know, No, they'd have people just up to turn left here. Not Middle East.

He's a British. He was from Britain. But that was just a voice. It was not an actual person. It was an artificial intelligent person. They call it AI. This was not an actual human being. They just, it was an artificial human being telling me a mile ahead of every turn.

He would say, turn right in one mile. I mean, it was very intense. But what I was, my point was about the woe Cal, now that I heard the definition, you just need to say, if they say, are you woke, you need to say, I love everybody. Yeah. There you go. That took care of that.

I'm commanded to love my neighbor. Yeah. Well, you've always done a good job of loving people, no matter where they're from or what they look like. So, but because people are saying that, from based on that definition, I guess, Al, that there's powers that be that are alienating certain types of groups of people. And injustice is happening. Right. And they're now waking up to this, but we're still all asleep. But I think we just say, yeah, we're woke.

Ephesians 514, you know, arise those sleep. Well, here's what I always say. Injustice happens. It happens. It's not if, it's when. Yeah, that's right. And Jesus himself. in an act of injustice,

I think the greatest act of injustice in the history of the world actually use that as God's plan to save all humans. So, I mean, just think about that. No, you're right. What happened to Jesus was an injustice because he's the only living adult

who literally was flawless and perfect. Yeah. No, he was not guilty of any sin. and he was capitally punished for everyone else. If it wasn't for that and my knowledge of that, I would have a hard time with forgiveness. You know, we're going to get into forgiveness in Luke 17,

but we're in Luke 16. I'll tell my experience with Mighty Oaks next podcast. All right, good. Well, before we go to that text, one thing I will say, Jase, is that you talk about a time when everybody's going to be woke at the resurrection, when everybody wakes up,

all injustice will be dealt with. So there is a day coming where justice will happen for everyone. So just hang on. Well, where's that text in Romans where it says about its mind to avenge? Because you know,

there's a, isn't there a movie? Isn't there a movie that's called Avengers? Yeah. It's the, Avengers are the, that's all the Captain, Captain America, they're all the Avengers. So to your point, is that a woke movie because they're trying to avenge injustice or am I missing? No, it could be. I mean, maybe, yeah.

I've never seen it. There's been several of them. They're like super. Where's that? What verse was I looking for there? Yeah, that's the one. It's mine to aven. That's the one, he's, the.

the burning coals on their head. Where is that? It's in Romans. Yeah, Romans 12. 17, do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. That's a good verse, Phil. Yeah. That's, if it is possible as far as it depends on you, live at peace with every.

Yeah. Here's the verse. So it's Romans 12, 19. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath. for it is written it is mine to avenge i will repay says the lord on the contrary if your enemy is hungry feed him if he is thirsty give him something to drink in doing this you will heap burning coals on his head that's a quote from proverbs 25 do not be overcome by evil but overcome evil with good i think that's a very good paragraph for our country i don't think the woke crowd has awakened today

That's what you just read. I think if they read that, based on the definition. Yeah, all injustice will be settled. Let me push that through. I will. Let them know that that's in the ball. We're going to let that out there, Jay's. So before we take a break, I've got two events coming up this week.

One is at the Bogie Hills Country Club in St. Charles, Missouri. It's for a group called the Vitae Foundation.org is where you go to see about tickets. Bogey Hills. Logie Hills Country Club. I wonder why it's not birdie hills. Well, it must be not a lot of good golfers there, Jay. I was thinking the same. Get the story on the same thing.

That's on Thursday, October 26 at 630. That's a fundraiser of Vitey Foundation.org. And then the next day, Friday, October 27th, at 7, I'm going to be at Camp Calvary in Macville, Kentucky for a men's retreat. And that's K.Y. Camp Calvary.com. So check those out. I've met a lot of people that I'll talk about on the next podcast up in Minnesota. that we're listeners.

So I appreciate you guys coming out. We do events. Let's take another break. Welcome back. We're getting to Luke, the end of Luke 16, verse 19. And I guess to set that back up, Jase, we had talked about, there was a parable about serving money or serving God is what kind of got that chapter started. And so I said, well, and just using your earthly.

blessings for heavenly consequences or maybe I could think of a better word there for heavenly matters you know yeah that's what I view the money is sort of a euphemism in that whole story about just worldly gain I mean what because you can put a lot of things in the context there yeah I told that illustration about you know the hearse you don't see a hearse with a you whole vehicle you know, use it for godly things. But, you know, actually I did see that one day. And I was just, I rolled down the window and was like, no, that's not going to work.

You can't take it with you. And other stories, just in the last couple chapters about all these arguments about inheritance and even it's an epidemic in our culture about people who die with a lot of money, about then how that gets distributed. And it's almost like some kind of curse that's passed on to each generation whereby delusionally you think that that money is going to give you security on earth, which always go back to our roots, which we didn't have any money based on a lot of reasons. But when you experience the joy that you have in Christ,

and you're really poor from an earthly standpoint. It does put that in perspective. So I'm grateful for that because then, you know, later we became famous, you put that in perspective. So passages like this mean a lot to me because you look at that as a trap. It's awesome. It's a blessing that you can have things and help. Yeah, but if you put your security in that, it's just a lot.

Yeah. I mean, there's a reason you see all these Hollywood celebrities, you know, once they get to about 40, they start using a lot of money to try to keep their youthful look. And, you know, it's a, it's a trap that they're just trying to follow that's going to end one day. I mean, at some point, there's nothing you can do. All the money's gone. All the looks are gone. And you're left with what?

The resurrection without it. I can't imagine what a person would be thinking with no faith in at least the possibility that they could be raised from the dead. It's a story. It's really sad, which is why we're getting, you know, to this. I mean, it makes me look at it, you know, and you said, well, you know, I woke. I said, I'm going to be awakened from the grave one day. So, but we want to talk about woke. That's kind of the woke.

But, you know, you remember. You remember when Jesus raised the girl, you know, the young girl, and he's like, wake up? You know, a lot of people thought, well, what, was she asleep? I mean, maybe she wasn't dead. No, she was dead. And the other gospel records that. But he did it in a way like, that's how simple. She did wake up.

Yeah, that's how simple it's going to be for the person who has this kind of power. Yeah. It's a snap of the fingers. It's the twinkling of an eye, and even though you're dead, you can be awakened. I mean, you got to remember, we're talking about a person that visited our planet who's eating fish on a creek bank after he was dead. Yeah. He's walking into walls, walking through walls with doors locked, but they're looking at him,

and he's like, I'm not a ghost. Grab a hole tummy. Well, what? Right. This is what we're talking about. They killed him. And he woke up. Yeah.

Well, look, when you hold the power. That's the reason. If I'm not woke, I said, oh, I'm woke all right. But when you hold the power over life and death and you can bring people back from the dead and you can be brought back from the dead and be in a glorified body to live forever, things like money and possessions and somehow having everything. right on this earth just begin to pale. They begin to kind of get in the rearview mirror.

And that's the whole point. You made a really interesting point, Jay, is earlier in Luke 16, and it really sets up where we're going to wind up today because the Pharisees had built their whole philosophy of money and wealth and possessions on how good they were, which is exactly why Jesus went the route he did by saying, look, you've never understood the law and the prophets, or you wouldn't be. the way you are because God knows your heart. And that's why I use that illustration about marriage and divorce.

They had a bad heart about the whole thing and a complete misunderstanding of possessions and money. And so their view was if some poor, you know, sad sack didn't have anything, that's because he's a terrible person. I mean, that's how they build their whole thing. Yeah. And it's real interesting before Jesus tells this next story, you know, heaven and hell, which is, look, it's one of the most talked about parables.

or story-like parable that you'll ever read. What's interesting is right before it in Luke's account, he actually singles out not the worldly people with money, but it's the Pharisees who love money. And then he does a contrast in their belief system because they would take some laws like the one of, marriage and divorce, and then they watered that down just because it didn't fit what they wanted to do on this earth.

Exactly. And then in other matters, they would go across the line and have all these amendments to the law of where you literally couldn't function without breaking some kind of rule. And so he brings up out. All that leads up to this parable where there's a rich man and a poor guy, and they both face death. And so before I read that, though, I want to read this, because I thought this was a good capper to get us ready. This is what Paul said in Philippians 3. But think about the context of what I'm about to read with this idea.

We're talking about with the Pharisees and money and the ultimate choice of resurrection or heaven or hell. It says Paul said in Philippians 3, 7, whatever was to my prophet. I now consider loss for the sake of Christ, which is the way we should view anything towards possessions or money. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law. there's the Pharisees, and Paul was one, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so somehow

to attain to the resurrection of the dead. I mean, so to me, that's just such the capping idea that Paul has to the Philippine church of exactly what we're talking about, about what really matters versus... He had to die. He had to die. Yeah. Had to die. I mean, the price to be paid, he established. That's right. But you know, Al, even there, he went on to say in verse 18 that he said, I've often told you, I told you before and now say again, even with tears, you know, Paul was so passionate about this and the situation was so dire in this concept of putting your faith in things of the earth or looking beyond the earth, he says, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ.

Their destiny is destruction. Their God, and this is little G, is their stomach. And you say, what? I mean, they want to eat high off the hog thinking this is like the comforts of an earthly existence. And it says their glory is in their shame because they're doing things because of their power and who they think they are and their money that are shameful. But here's the key phrase. Their mind is on earthly things. Yep.

But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly body so that they'll be like his glorious body. Oh, that's good. The woke among us must pay attention to what you just read. Yeah. Yeah, maybe they'll wake up.

Maybe they'll wake up. Yeah, we've got to wake up the woke. So, Jesus is right. It puts it in a heavenly context versus an earthly one. And so think about that when I'm fixing to read this next story. And we'll talk about it because the first question is, is it a parable? Is it real? Is he talking about somebody he knows?

And we'll get into that. So this is Luke 16, verse 19. So remember, in the context of Luke puts this is right into this whole discussion about the Pharisees and about how they view money and how they view money. they view things. There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores, which in, you know, in a Jewish context, to add that little caveat to the story would have been very important.

it, you know, because that's just, you didn't do stuff like that. This, this situation was bad. That's what Luke's trying to get across. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried in hell or Hades is another, which we'll get into that, where he was in torment. He looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue because I am an agony in this fire.

But Abraham replied, son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you, a great chasm has been fixed, so that, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us. He answered, then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house. For I have five brothers. Let him warn them so that they will not come to this place of torment.

Verse 29, Abraham replied, They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them. No, Father Abraham, he said, but if someone from the dead goes to them, will repent. He said to him, if they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced, even if someone rises from the dead. So there's any doubt that he's talking about himself, you know, in that little hint about, you know, that they're not listening to him either.

So there's a lot to unpack. I guess first of all, the first question is, is Jesus given a actual something that's happened, which some people believe that. Scholars are all over the place, Jace, when it comes to this text. But. Which we're going to have fun with that, not that this is a funny subject. Because there's a lot of people out there who believe in God, but don't believe in hell. Right. Which is a little strange when you realize that, you know, who talked about hell more than any other person in the Bible?

Jesus, I'm sure. It's Jesus. And so, you know, you're like, I thought we were supposed to be motivated by God's grace. Well, you are. But I will agree with some of the scholars I read that you're really not going to appreciate the grace of God unless you understand that there's a hell. And you're not going to understand the love of God. and so there's a lot of places to go here but i i will say one thing that that people who wind up in hell they're going to do it by their own accord because it's obvious that god does not want you there

right you know even even reading this story i mean it's not the narrative of here these people are in hell and they're like oh let me out and god is like no you know and they're like crawling trying to crawl out You notice the guy never even asked in the story to get out. Right. I mean, I think I would have at least said, hey, you know, how about let me out of it? He was just not being rational is an understatement because he was still functioning like Lazarus was his servant. Hey, go tell him. He's still dictating policy.

Yeah. and acting like, well, go get him, you know, get him to go tell my family, get him to dip my, give me a drop of water. Well, what's a drop going to do? Nothing. Yeah. I mean, maybe five seconds of like, oh, now what? I mean, he's still not looking at this thing from the right perspective, which I think is Jesus is.

My theory is, and this is just my opinion, because I could be wrong if Jay said his shirt on. is that it is a parable, just because the way Jesus frames some of it, is there literally you're looking across and can see somebody? It just, it seems that the concept of heaven and hell seems a lot bigger than what Jesus is describing here. He's just given a little thumbnail,

because the point of the parable is, to the audience he's speaking to, is you need to listen to everybody that's pointed everything in history to me. And so, I mean, that's his point. That's what he's trying to make here. You don't want to be in the story. You want to be Lazarus. You don't want to be the rich guy is the whole point.

Another thing that's interesting to me is that he uses Abraham. You know, the Old Testament doesn't talk much about heaven at all. It does talk about Shio or this concept of hell. You do see that more in the Old Testament, but you don't see a lot about heaven. Most Jews just saw the idea of generations going forward. was their idea of heaven. I mean, I don't know that they had a concept, you know, of it at all. In fact, you had the Pharisees and the Sadducees even didn't agree on the resurrection.

So there was a lot of interesting thing about the afterlife, but it's interesting that Jesus would bring Abraham into the topic or into the discussion because what I guess he did understand, they understood, was that Abraham was the before Judaism, before everything. He was the father of the faithful, the one who was called out. So they all agreed about Abraham. So I guess in their minds, they would have seen Abraham. If anybody would have made it, it would have been him. And so that's why he used it. He was subtly using that also because this is not a window into what his point was not, this is what heaven and hell is like.

Now, most scholars, the reason they don't agree is because they go here to try to determine that. the window was about putting your faith in earthly wealth and power versus putting your faith in Jesus. But I want to make this one point. Because a lot of people read this, the scholars and say, well, if you're rich on earth, you're out. Because basically the only accusation was there was a man who, you know, he lived in luxury. And then you have this Lazarus, who was a beggar.

So they're looking at it totally from social issues. But look, Abraham, he was rich. That's right. So it's a subtle point that then Jesus used as an illustration that Abraham made it. But Abraham was one of the richest people in the Old Testament. So what was the difference? Well, the difference was where he placed that value, like what you read from Philippians 3, on where that's coming from.

Who owns all this and what are you to do about it? This is God's. What was you going to say, Phil? I was you going to say that we need to remember at this stage of the things that are going on, that eternal life was still hidden via the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. It was still hidden. Well, he hadn't died and been buried in Ray. Yeah, that's right. He had predicted it, and now he's given, and this is, you're right,

this is another claim that only the son of God could pontificate on. That's right. Because he gives you a picture. So always view this, because he uses a name. You know, people say, well, is this a parable or not? Because it's the only place, if it is a parable, where a real name is used. Now, the rich man is just a rich. man but Lazarus this beggar he uses his name now you want to hear my theory on that out

well you remember when we were in Luke 10 and when Jesus sent out the 72 and he gave them this power and they got all excited that the demons were submitting to them in Jesus's name and in verse 18 Jesus replied, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, which is another thing that only some supernatural being could say. Who was there, that's right. When did Satan fall like lightning from heaven? Well, it was a long time before this was written. Oh, yeah.

I think when he said that, I would have had to interrupt. Wait, let's back up to that part and tell me more. But he goes on, and then he says, I've given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. But then he makes this statement. However, do not rejoice that the spirit submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. Well, the reason I think he's using an actual name is because of this concept.

Look, Al, right after I read that Philippians 320, our citizenship is in heaven, we eagerly await us over from there. Remember when we read that? Well, look at chapter four of Philippians in verse two, which is you don't really notice this verse, but it says he pleads with this person, you a dia, and I plead with Sintike,

to agree with each other. Sintiki, okay, and the Lord. Yes, and I ask you. a loyal yoke fellow help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel? You're like, why are you reading this, Jace? Watch, along with Clement. And the rest of my fellow workers whose names are in the book of life. So you're seeing a pattern developed here, which is why I think Jesus used a name in this illustration parable slash story.

that if you wind up in hell, you know what, it's just another rich guy who was self-absorbed and thought it was all about this life. But that verse in John Tim where Jesus says, he's our shepherd and he knows his sheep by name. It's a, and you remember all the verses where he said, you know, will everybody say on that day, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name?

And he's like, away from me, I never knew you. And I think it really highlights the relationship. Even in the Philippians 3, it's not just about heaven. We're eagerly awaiting a Savior from there. And look, there's been more books written about what is heaven is going to be like. But the Bible really doesn't go into a lot of detail. Because it's more about who's going to be there.

And that's why we're Christ's ambassadors as a purpose. because I'm like, you know, if I'm with Jesus forever, and my main mission is to get, number one, my family there and to get other people, whatever we're fixed to do, and I've used this illustration many times, when you go out, when you go on a trip, is it more important who's going or where you're going? I mean, I'll go with my wife anywhere.

Make the best. You say what I mean. It's like, that's the way my wife is. It's like, hey, where are we going? Doesn't matter. Let's go. You can go to some fabulous place, but if you're not getting along with your wife, the whole time you're there, probably not going to go very well, no matter how great the places. Well, it's the difference in a worldly mindset where these people in the world who don't know Jesus, they're thinking, oh, I want to travel the world and see it.

And they're all by all these places. I'm like, I'm going to go anywhere with my wife and kids and my friends, and we're going to make it work. I mean, some of the best times I had was some of the most. terrible destinations. It became hilarious. And I really think that's the point of this. And I really think being self-absorbed is a hidden point. And you see that in the attitude of the rich man. And so what that all means that he gave him a name, I do think that it's not a coincidence that when he said, look, don't you get all excited about these miracles that I'm giving you the ability to to do. Because by the way, what was Lazarus' I mean, what was the rich man's appeal at the end?

He basically wanted a miracle. He said, well, I tell you what, let me come back or let someone come back from the dead. And, you know, I guess he didn't get that far in what he would say, but I guess look out, you know, danger. Don't come here. What was he asked for? He's a miracle. He was like, tell him how bad this is. And then Jesus is like, no, they're not going to listen, even if someone comes back from the dead. And that's why I always make this point that Jesus is better than miracles. And really the motivation for turning your life to God is not hell. It'll get your attention. I remember young in the faith. I used to be terrified. And that was one of my motivations for pursuing Jesus because I was like, well, I don't want to go to hell. But then I really realized,

realize that's not going to change your life. What's going to change your life is the grace of God and the love of Christ on why he suffered and basically paid our penalties, which would have sent us to hell to redeem us. And I think that's really the picture he's trying to say that he's better than any kind of miracle. At this time frame, we're going to Jerusalem. He reminds and by the time you get to Luke 18, we're going up to Jerusalem. Everything that is written by the prophets about the son of man will be fulfilled.

Just think of that, all that information. He'll be handed over to the Gentiles, he was. They will mock him, they did, insult him, they did, spit on him, they did, flog him, and kid him. On the third day, he'll rise again. The disciples did not understand any of this. Now just think about it

as we go through the book of Luke. Its meaning was hidden from them and they did not know what he was talking about. I mean, when your audience has no idea what you're talking about,

we tend to bypass that. These things are happening but God coming down out of heaven and a baby in a manger. It's quite the story. I think he explained it so we would

one day get it through their experience. All right. So we're out of time. We'll pick this discussion up in our overtime. If you want to follow us over there, blazedtv.com slash Unashamed is where we'll be. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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