Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 787 | Phil Causes a Stir at the Church & Jase Has a Theological Beef with a Buddy

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Jase feels the urge to write an explosive new book about the kingdom of Jesus with Zach, though their conflicting styles may result in a big mess. Phil causes a stir onstage at church and does some good old-fashioned research since he doesn’t utilize the internet. The guys discuss the nature of Christianity and how living a faithful life is good, though difficult, here on earth. Zach reiterates advice on how to live in the atomic age without fear. In this episode: Colossians 1, verses 11-12; Hebrews 3, verse 6; 2 Corinthians 6, verses 14-16; Romans 1, verses 1-3; Romans 8, verses 28-39 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to the Unashamed podcast. I'm in the southern layers. Zach's out of North Carolina. We got Jays and Dad in studio this morning. Jace, was it a crisp Louisiana morning when you got up today? No. It was actually, get the suntan lotion out. Yeah, it's warmed back up. So, but, you know, I've been on a wrist. road for weeks and I felt like yesterday when I went to church when I walked in it was pretty funny there was a stir going on because we were there like 15 minutes early and I was like if people were bustling and there was some energy and kind of excitement there was a lot of people there for 50

minutes early. And so I opened the main door there to the auditorium because they have two services. One is kind of for the old people, no offense, Phil. The other is the younger, fresher. And we were talking about we like the younger, fresher worship service, but my mom goes to the older one. So, you know, and she gets her feelings hurt if I don't sit beside her. So, but I walked in and Phil was down there just baptizing people one after that was the buzz. That was the stir. Yeah, I was like, good, great. This party started.

And I didn't even know it had, I thought I was early. I missed the party. But what was shocking is I've been just so removed from the normal world filming this show and being on the road. People kept coming up to me and talking about the, podcast that we did about the kingdom in a positive very profound way i mean from tears in the eyes to excitement to you know i i didn't i'd never realize this because you know with us we do so many podcasts yeah you you move on you move on and you think well you know there may have been 14 people they got something out of that but the train moves on but that seemed to be a

little more moving the needle than other things that we've talked about. And I mean, a couple of my good buddies, it created some debates, which I'm like, well, look, we did three or four podcasts on it. They've only released one. So let's time out. Yeah, time out. Let me save you some time. And he's like, well, look, at my church, I requested, this is a good buddy of mine, that we have. a speaker come in and let's let's talk about this more so i thought good grief you know we he listened to a podcast next thing you know they got some of they're doing a three-part series on it let's let's figure that we might have missed something here man that's encouraging i got yeah i got i had a lot of uh people have contacted me as well and what's weird is they were like uh hey episode

seven whatever number and i'm like seven 82 yeah yeah i'm like i don't know i don't know I don't know numbers, but if it was about the kingdom, I know those four that we did. And they were excellent. I got, I had a lot of great feedback as well. So I called Jace. I said, Jase, we need to, we need to put this in a book format, was what we need to do, write a book on this topic. And then we, because we typically do like a, actual, like, just going through the scriptures. But I think every now and then it's good to do like a topical, systematic theology, kind of this, what is the Bible say?

about, I think we need to do a book about the kingdom. I think we need to, and then I think we need to do, basically, we can have it as a study guide that goes along with it that way. Because I think what we're saying here is, it was so much scripture that I felt like it needed to be digested a little bit. You know what I mean? It was, it was good, but it was a lot. Well, maybe we should write a book, you know?

I mean, the problem... I think we put it to Unashamed Nation. We've got to let them weigh in. Wait till you hear all the episodes, but then, I mean, they've guided us on everything else we've done, so maybe they can talk. The problem with it is the book's already written on it. Do not be yoked. It's called the Bible. Do not be yoked together with unbelievers.

Start that with your book. What do righteousness and wickedness have in common? or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? I mean, this is serious stuff. This is worthy of a book, which they've already had for a while. What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?

For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said, I will live with them, walk them up, them and I will be their God and they will be my people therefore come out from them and that should go in the book that should go in the book there's your opening paragraph there you go is that no but it's interesting point because when on page one of well the argument I had with now this guy you know I love this brother and we we study together all the time and I like it because he's not a yes man and so a lot of these crazy ideas that I come up with. I like having a friend who'll say Jay, sure, crazy. But anyway, part of the, in this case, I didn't agree with him, but he was saying, but you said

Jesus says the temple, that doesn't make any sense. And I was like, well, technically, just to clear this up, we're the temple, what you just read. We're, Hebrews 3, 6. I thought when I made that reference, people would go read Hebrews 3, 6. I read from 2nd, Corinthians 6. Yeah, that. That was 2 Corinthians 6, which I referenced in the kingdom study that when it says, do you not know that your body is the temple of God? So, but, you know, Hebrews 3, 6, which I, you know, I guess I should have read, but I want to read it now. It's two verses removed from one of my favorite verses in the Bible,

which says every house is built by someone, but God is the build of everything. and then he says, Moses was faithful as a servant in all of God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future, because we're pointing to Christ being better than Moses. But verse 6 says, But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house, and we are his house if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

And so the reason I said Jesus is the temple, because he is because he's the cornerstone. You know, you read what Peter said about it. We rise up. You read what Paul said about in 2 Corinthians 5. We are there for Christ ambassadors as though God were making his appeal through us. So when you go back to Luke 17, 20, and 21, where this all started, when they were asking when the kingdom would come,

he said it won't come with your careful observation. You're not going to point and say, here it is or there it is, because the kingdom is within you. That's the point. By Jesus' death, bell and resurrection and the unleashing of the Holy Spirit

in Acts chapter 2, people would be able to surrender to God through Jesus and his salvation and howls the Holy Spirit of God, which is what we're, saying is when the kingdom arrived. Now it will be completely fulfilled at the resurrection where we get our new bodies. But I think it's very inspiring. And that was the point we were making, which is when they're talking about debating on whether to rebuild the temple at Jerusalem

for the third time, Jesus is the temple. That is the fulfillment. You can house the Holy Spirit. That was the point we were making. To Zach's point about potentially maybe a book and a study guide, just to let you guys know without getting too much into how the sausage are made, I mean, we all knew we were going to hit this place in Luke 17 about the kingdom. And the questions were being asked then is now the time later is asked by the Apostles. So we were just asking the same questions that were asked then. But the beauty of the podcast format is the four of us have studied the Bible for our entire lives. And so we all kind of had our take.

But what you heard on those four podcasts was a compilation of all of our thoughts. And it was interesting because like everybody out there, I learned a lot too, taking everybody's thoughts and putting them together. That's why it seems so the word I used was withering. It was a withering defense of the kingdom being established in the first century by Jesus's coming and leaving. So I think it was strong, but there were things that came out in the results of it, all of us together having a discussion that probably none of us would have had just on our own, trying to write down some thoughts about it. So there was a lot of symmetry, I guess, and synergy that was at work for those podcasts that none of us really planned up.

Well, the bigger issue, though, is if Zach and I decided to write a book, can you imagine the combustion between the simple mind? I don't want to be a part of any of that. And the scholarly. That's what we need to really address. I mean, this is going back to when I married my wife. I was looking at all the cons because we're just so different about everything. You've got to understand that when he speaks of the kingdom, when people get all stirred up about it, the kingdom is the church.

I mean, somebody says, what? Well, it's definitely a part of the kingdom. I mean, the kingdom's bigger than just the church. It is bigger, but it's definitely a part. Paul's in jail. He said, my fellow prisoner Aristarchus, Ariscus, whatever, send you his, I'm in Colossians, the last few verses in Colossians at the end.

You have received instructions about him. If he comes to you, welcome him. Jesus, who also called justice, also greetings. These are the only Jews, among my fellow workers for the kingdom of God. And they have proved a comfort to me. Epaphrus, who was one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus, sends greetings.

He is always wrestling in prayer for you, that you may stand firm in all the will of God, because these people are having a tough time now. I vouch for him that he's working hard for you, and that those in Laotasia and Hieropolis, Our dear Demas sends greetings. Give my greetings to the brothers of Laotasia to Naimfa and the church in her house. So if you're talking about the kingdom of God and you remind people, it's the church.

It's the called out. It's there for a purpose. These people were having a very difficult time. He said, my fellow workers for the kingdom, they have proved a comfort to me. You know, so send greetings. He's always wrestling in prayer. And it was on a very small level, but they were doing the work of the kingdom.

Yeah, well, earlier in his letter, you know, in chapter one, he actually said in verse 11, you know, he was praying, speaking of this wrestling and prayer, with all power that they might have great endurance and patience and give thanks to the Father who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.

That's right. You know, and then it says, for he has rescued us. How in the world could you be a member of it and say, I'm not, I, what? Well, it's a strange thing to me. I don't know how this. I don't understand. I don't know how it caught on, but, but I, you know, it's almost like you're invited to a party and you're, you go to the party, and then,

everybody's talking about what we're going to do at the party. You're like, but we're at the party. This is a party. Yeah. And so I get it. There's another party coming when we're resurrected. And that's never been in question. I think we all agree with that.

But the party got started and Jesus cranked it off. No doubt. And by giving the Holy Spirit of God, I mean, we're acting like the Holy Spirit is. It's just like something that is, oh, yeah, he's going to give you the Holy Spirit. It's a big thing. The Holy Spirit of God. We're talking about the deity of God living inside you. Once that enters your body, you are part of the kingdom of God.

And the king is Jesus. I mean. I actually think, too, like when you get it, there's so many implications to this that I think it, honestly, he streamlines the entirety of scripture. So you get to like, but you get to like Paul, for example, when he gets into his letter to the Roman church, you know,

I actually read the book of Romans in this same vein that he's talking about, what is the kingdom, what does it look like? It's Jew and Gentile, one body, no distinction, being grafted in.

There's all this language of being grafted into olive tree and, and all the, all that that that is, but you listen to what Paul says at the beginning of Romans, for example, and when he's laying out the case for what he's about to make in the book of Romans, he says that he says that he is going to Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through the prophets and the Holy Scripture. So, I mean, I've read that verse my whole entire Christian life, I typically just skip through that as just an introductory verse, not really thinking that

has a lot of weight to it. But listen to what Paul is saying here. He is stating that he's going to interpret, think about the power of this. He's saying, I'm going to interpret the prophets in the Holy Scriptures, Isaiah, Jose, Malachi. I'm going to interpret those prophets in the new revelation of Jesus Christ, verse 3, concerning his son, who was descended from David according to the flesh. it was declared to be the son of God in power according to the Spirit of Holiness by the resurrection from the dead Jesus Christ, our Lord. So Paul, Paul, his whole point that he's bringing forth in the book of Romans is he's explaining how the Gentiles are going to be grafted into the kingdom with the Jews by the power of the blood of Jesus.

So there's so much linked to this idea of the temple, us being the temple. it's even beyond. I mean, it's how we get in as Gentiles. I mean, how we can possess the spirit of God. Isaiah 44, this is prophesied about in Isaiah 44 that people who are not from the house of Jacob are going to be called Israel. We're going to be called Israel. We're going to be called God's people even though we're not.

And it makes sense of the whole book of Acts, the sheep coming down with the unclean animals. And God says, don't call anything that I've called clean, unclean. And you start to see this redemptive flow throughout history that, that God is bringing all the nations to himself to worship him and to be part of this kingdom. I think it's absolutely beautiful and powerful and extremely encouraging for people like us. Well, even Zach mentioned in David in Romans 1 is that has implications about kingdom because David was a part of the physical kingdom of Israel, which is obviously God's way of building his nation of people.

But he made a covenant with David, he called the everlasting covenant, that part of his seed would be an eternal kingdom. So once again, he was even pointing to Jesus in that moment as being the established kingdom of God and the king going forward. In the Gospels alone, to verify what you just said, the word kingdom is mentioned 133 times in the Gospels. because I looked through it and counted them, and I wrote it down for someone who said, well, wait, here, here, 133 times in the Gospels.

And someone says, no, that's, you know, we're not the kingdom. I'm like, not the kingdom. I said, 133 times it's mentioned in the gospels alone. Matthew and Mark, Luke, John. Jase, what did your friend? So when you were talking to him, what, what's, What's the beef? What's the beef with Jesus being part of it? Because I would say that we are the temple, but only because we're built upon the cornerstone of the temple.

So Jesus is that cornerstone in the temple, and then we're being built on that. But what's his beef with, what was his beef with Jesus being? His beef was that that would nullify this attempt to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem, which he's saying some of these verses that he's reading is saying, a week that's got to happen before jesus comes back huh it comes back to that question and i'm not saying this sarcastically i'm just saying the people who are waiting for the kingdom to be here it sounds like the same question that was asked to jesus in acts one nine is it where he says one of his disciples said are you now going to restore the kingdom of israel well that they're getting that from the old

Testament prophecies. Jesus' disciples were and modern day people. They're saying at some point, we got to restore this kingdom, and they're thinking it's a building, which, you know, I think we had a pretty good argument where Stephen lost his life saying, God, he doesn't live in temples built by hands. That's over. There's a guy named Jesus who came and fulfilled that. He is that.

So that's why he's having the beef with it, because he's saying there's prophecy. in the Old Testament that have not been fulfilled. And, you know, Luke 24 seems to say the exact opposite when it says everything that is written must be fulfilled. You know, that's why I brought up the Hebrews 1 last podcast about how we pray, even how we pray and understand that this unchanging God, which is a positive thing, because everything here is going to change for the worst.

Everything. I mean, this whole place is going to roll up, you know, the verse we read in Psalm 102. And it made me a quote popped into my head from C.S. Lewis when they asked him if he was afraid of nuclear war, the world ending in nuclear war. And it was somebody trying to poke holes in his argument about, oh, there's a God, you know. Well, what happens if a nuclear war happens? And his response, which I don't have it off. the top of my head, but it was basically like, I'm not worried about that time. I'm more worried about all the time that happened before creation and after. And it was a very pro, I summed up what

he said. But his point was, if there's no God, well, what does it matter? What if it mattered? If there's no God and the whole thing that we blow ourselves up, what? Does it matter? But if there is a God, and he is eternal, I'm much more concerned about what happens after that happens and before, which is a definition of God being eternal and unchanging. So, I mean, it was kind of a controversial thing to say because you're like, this guy said he's not worried about a nuclear war. But really, you know, his point was really noble. everything in your life is going down, including you. That's right.

Yeah, I've read this before. I think this is it. If it's not, we'll cut this part out, but I think this is it. And this is C.S. Lewis on how do we live in the atomic age? In one way, we think a great deal too much about the atomic bomb. How are we to live in the atomic age? I am tempted to reply, why, as you would have lived, lived in the 16th century when the plague visited London almost every year, or as you would

have lived in the Viking Age when the raiders from Scandinavia might land and cut your throat any night, or indeed, as you are already living in the age of cancer or the age of syphilis or the age of paralysis or the age of air raids, an age of railroad, railway accidents, an age of motor accidents. In other words, do not let us begin with exaggerating the novelty of our situation. Believe me, dear sir or madam, you and all whom you love are already sentenced to death before the atomic bomb was invented. And quite a high percentage of us were going to die in unpleasant ways. We had indeed one very great advantage over our ancestors, anesthetics, but we have that still. And it is perfectly ridiculous to go about whimpering and drawing long faces because the scientists have added one

more chance of painful and premature death to our world, which already bristled with such chances, and in which death itself was not a chance at all, but a certainty. This is the first point to be made, and the first action to be taken, is to pull ourselves together. If we are all going to be destroyed by an atomic bomb, let that bomb, when it comes, find us doing sensible and human things, praying, working, teaching, reading, listening to music, bathing children, playing tennis, chatting to our friends over a pint or game of darts, not huddled together, like frightened sheep and thinking about bombs, that they may break our bodies.

A microbe can do that, but they need not dominate our minds. That's pretty good. No, it's real good. I listened to a sermon by Keller, talking about the Unchanging God, and he had an illustration in there that was kind of the same thing. It's like there was a guy part of a team that were fixed to cut a forest. And he noticed that there was a bird making a nest in one of the trees. So he goes up and starts making racket because he's trying to, you know, he's trying to help the bird.

You know, the bird's making a nest. And he's like, this bird doesn't understand. This tree's fixed to go down, you know. So he makes all the ragged. Finally the bird leaves the tree, goes to another tree. And he's like, no, you don't get it. You know, all you did was move from one tree. That one's going down too.

So, you know, he does, and goes on next tree. And finally the bird goes to a rock. And he's like, okay. But the point was he made was making that all trees are going down. And how that relates to on earth, everything is going to be rolled up and discarded. I mean, this earth, even people who don't believe in God, they realize at some point. either you're going to leave the earth or the earth is leaving, but all the trees are coming down. And so the rock obviously was a parallel to what we have in Jesus, the unchanging nature of God,

where we put our faith in trust. And so he made a practical illustration getting to the point where we've been in in prayer. It's like, well, you know, how has God? being like the lumberjack in your life. I mean, your tree, he's trying to tell you, don't put your hope and trust in things of the earth. It's not going to last. You're way better off when Paul wrote in the book of Revelation, in verse 6, to him, let's talk about the kings of the earth,

to him who loves us and has freed us. It's past tense, past tense, from our sins by his blood and has made us, to be a kingdom and priest to serve his God and father to him be glory and power forever and ever he's made us already it's not going to make us one time when now well i think the argument kingdom is here and we're members of it well i think so the argument comes back to so you'll read in revelation 5 10 where it says you have made them to be a year kingdom and priest to serve a God and they will reign on the earth.

You bet. Well, I think the argument comes in. People's like, yeah, one day we will reign on the earth because it's hard for Christian people to believe that you're raining on the earth now. But what I would subject to your mind is if you have the Holy Spirit of God, which makes you One six. Which makes you indestructible. Revelation 1.6.

Even though you die, yet shall you live? Revelation 1 6. You have the answers to life. You have the answers to purpose in life. You have the answer to how you got life. That would make you the most powerful person. It would make you indestructible. On earth.

Well, so people say, well, we're not raining on the earth. We're getting beat. What? Well, so did Jesus. Jesus was he was scourged, he was beaten, he was mocked, but was he reigning on the earth? Well, yeah, he was raining on the earth because by that act of suffering and weakness, not only did he forgive all people's sins, but he then destroyed death itself through the resurrection. So yes, he was reigning on the earth because he was giving God's answers to character, to

the value of all people, the answer to sin, the answer to death. And so I think we reign in the same way through the Holy Spirit now and when he comes back. Yeah, I agree. And I think it has a ton of implications on how we approach life here. I mean, like you think, well, we're in Lur and Luke 18 and what does it matter? And, well, I mean, you get down to this idea of this rich young ruler that we'll get into in a probably not today, but in a very near future podcast. But, you know, he's talking about how to live life in the kingdom.

So I think a lot of times we'll read these verses in these passages in the New Testament, and we're trying to make application as if this is just a new way of, like, I almost like, here's the new rules. You know, the Old Testament had its set of rules. Now the New Testament, Jesus came, and he's going to give us a new set of rules. And that's not really what these texts are about. All of these texts are more of a description of what does it look like to live in the kingdom? And so, you know, you get to all these stories and these parables and these ideas.

I mean, what does it look like to live in the kingdom of God? And what it looks like, it looks like that you're being caught up into the life of Christ. You're being transformed by the renewing of your mind. You're being made into a new person with new desires and new hopes and new dreams. It's not, it is not a grinded out for 80 years and then you get to go to heaven when you die. That is not it. And I think Jesus is clearly teaching that this is something that happens right now that you can enter into today. That's kind of the point of the rich young ruler in Luke 18 is you can enter this right now.

Not when you die now. Yeah, true. But even the rich young reader, the reason I think people are that's so misunderstood, which I know we're going to wait to get to this, but just to give you a preview, because I agree with you, you know, the question that's hard to understand there, more than the illustration when he said, how hard is it for the rich to enter the kingdom of God, to your point? He said, indeed, it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

And those who heard this asked, well, who then can be saved? And the reason they were asking that is because in that culture at this time, and we've seen it over and over in Luke, which I noticed this when I was reading ahead, they equated their wealth with God's favor. Yeah. So that's why they asked such a crazy question because it's like, well, wait a minute, we thought, which it makes sense then what he said, because it doesn't really make sense to our modern culture when they said, well, who then can be saved? Because you know it's not about, there was a lot of rich people in the Old Testament, Abraham, Isaac, Job, all these guys have money. So you know he's not saying, oh, just because you have money. I think he was just saying, when you have money, whatever was the Lord of your life, it's going to be. be harder. Money makes it harder. But the point is, when he said, who then can be saved,

well, then it became really a conversation about what is actually possible. Because then Jesus replied, well, what is impossible with men is possible with God. And Peter said, well, we've left everything to follow you. And then he said, well, I'll tell you the truth. No one who is, left home, wife, brothers, parents, children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, will fail to receive many times as much in this age and in the age to come. Well, him making those two dividing lines by saying you'll get it now, which a lot of people say, well, does that mean it's a prosperity gospel? No, because you're going to be a part of a new family.

You may not have much, but all these other people that you're with in the kingdom, you're now with them as a one organism, which goes back to the temple of God. Look, and the age to come. So that is the ultimate fulfillment of the kingdom when we go to the next phase of the resurrection. A good phrase is already not yet. Is a kingdom, as a kingdom is already here, the kingdom is not yet here. It's both. I mean, like, like it is already here.

Yes. And we say this a lot. It's, it's, it's, we're tasting more. of what we will experience and its full fruition in the consummation of glory. And in glory, this is what we will be. And I think that, like, when you think about this, when he says here, this rich young ruler, one of the things that he tells him to do when he says, you know, what do I got to do to inherit eternal life, what Jesus, this is like rhetorical here almost when he says,

why do you call me good? No one is good except God. Obviously, Jesus is God. So it's kind of like a, like, yeah, I'm. I am good because I'm God. But then he says, you know the commandments. So he said, what do I do? He basically said, do the commandments.

And the guy says, I've done all of that. I've kept all these since my youth. And I love what Jesus does. He takes the one thing that he didn't do or wouldn't do. And he says, do that. Okay, then do this. And the guy, and then he's, and not just do this, what does he say? And come follow me.

And I think that, that, that, that, that, those four words and come follow me is the essence of what the kingdom here, the kingdom now looks like. And why does it matter? Because it is an embodied spirituality that happens right now. We follow Jesus. So whatever the thing is that we walk away from that, not to say we may not slip, you may slip and fall, and you may go right back and do the same sin that you left when you came to Christ. But here's the deal. You left it. And you came to follow Jesus. And that's what the kingdom like. looks like. It is walking with him. It's being an apprentice, being a disciple, being transformed, becoming like him. That's the point of it, I think, you know, and I think that's one of the key

characteristics of being in the kingdom. Well, make a note for your book, because those four words are in contrast to the first four words, which is, what must I do? So you got, what must I do? And then Jesus said, then come follow me. And then he says, what is impossible with men is possible with God. The problem with this question is, is what must I do? There's nothing you can do. That's right.

So that's why he said, come follow me. That's why it said with God, all things are possible. Well, what things are we talking about? The only thing that matters is where you're going to reside,

to C.S. Lewis's point, after this is all over. Which goes back to our talk about prayer, and how hard it is with all these circumstances that we live in and the struggles, all of it's going to be tossed away. It's all going to wear out. But God's not. And then it says, you know, in that last verse in 102,

we're going to be in the presence of God forever, which is why the Hebrew writer used that as an illustration. And you think, well, what was he talking about angels? and all, because when we pray, God does send angels sometimes and change circumstances. It doesn't change the nature of God, but circumstances are change because of what you were referring to in Romans, which really Paul does a really good job of that. You know, in Romans 5, he says we have access to God now because of the gospel, and we have peace, and then he starts going into this process that we have to go through with suffering,

and it produces perseverance and perseverance character, character, hope, but hope doesn't disappoint us, this Romans 5, 5. Because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit whom he has given us. And then he displays his eternal love. One of his attributes is he is love. And he says he demonstrates his own love for us

while we were still sinners, Christ died for us, which is hard to do. wrap your head around that when God said, I love you, he demonstrated it. It didn't change his nature. It just gave him the opportunity based on our condition and who he is to send Jesus. And when he loves you, he loves you before, during, and after. So it's not something you're constantly causing God to be confused or surprised about. And so that's why I think then when you get to like Romans 8, one of the most misinterpreted verses probably in the Bible. But it is true.

We just have a hard time wrapping our head around it. When he says Romans 828, it says, and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him. You know, if we just believe that when it came to our prayer life, I think we'd have a better prayer life. You know, we're trusting that whatever he knows is in. then we're incapable of grasping it. And then he says, who have been a call to his purpose.

And then he gets into the discussion we had last podcast about how do we pray and how should we pray to an unchanging God. How does that relationship, what does it look like? And he says in verse 29, for those God foreknow he predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his son, that he might be the first born among many brothers. and those he predestined, he called. Those he called, he justified.

Those he justified, he glorified. What shall we say then? If God is for us, who can be against us? And then he goes to passionately, you can, like, it almost jumps off the page how he shares the good news of Jesus that Christ died. More than that was raised their life. He's at the right hand of God.

He's interceding for us. And then he's like, shall trouble or hardship or, persecution or famine or nakedness danger of sword shall that separate us from the love of christ no in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us for i'm convinced and then he goes through this list that neither death nor life angels demons the present the future powers neither height or doubt nor anything in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of god that is in christ jesus our lord i really think this is a picture of how our prayer life should be because we're knocked back by how how the world is difficult. We're changing. People do

bad things. There's injustice. We lose our money. And all of a sudden, instead of shaking our hand at God, he's already proven to us that we can be secure, no matter what happens to go to the C.S. Lewis quote about the nuclear war. That'd be the worst thing that could ever happen, right? But even in that, We're the ones that have hope and a guarantee. If the world keeps going like it's going in modern days, it could happen. Yeah. Well, either we're part of the kingdom, which is the greatest kingdom that could ever be conceived or not. And a nuclear bomb cannot destroy the kingdom that we're a part of.

That's right. I just can't do it. Nope. Well, because the resurrection, of course, is going to rectify all that anyway. Let's take our last break. Jason, before that section you read in Romans 8, and we mentioned this a few podcasts back, and Zach mentioned, I think, on the last podcast, the game changer was the Holy Spirit. Because he said in verse 26 of Romans 8, the Spirit helps us in our weakness.

We do not what we ought, we do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. So the idea, the same struggle we've been talking about, about. prayer, the Holy Spirit is the game changer. He now is God living in us. That's so, that's so key. You know, it's funny. I've been preaching a very similar message at our church, and one of my friends pushed back, the guy's been coming to our church a little bit. And one of the things he said to me, because I mentioned Mark 12, and I'd mentioned about the cornerstone, you know, Jesus being the cornerstone. I mentioned Ephesians 2. He saw, and I mentioned, I talked about 1st, 5th, he said, oh, that's all corporate.

I said, no, no, that's not core. I mean, it is corporate. There is a corporate temple that we are, but there is an individual temple. And that's what Paul is getting to in 1st, Corinthians 6. I said, that's not a corporate thing there, because what is Paul talking about? In 1st, 156, he's talking about sexual immorality. That's something that you don't commit sexual immorality corporately. That's something that you do personally.

And Paul's point is, is that you, we abstain from sex. immorality because there's a reason. There's a reason why will you abstain from it? Because your body, your individual body, is a temple of the Holy Spirit. So the reason why the Holy Spirit's a game changer, because that's the person of the Trinity that lives in the body of the believer. And that's why when I get this picture, I don't know if you can separate it corporately and individually or Jesus versus us.

And Jesus is a cornerstone of the temple. And then we are living stones. Each one of us is a living stone built in that temple. So I'm not the temple in its entirety. That's not true. I'm not the entirety of God's new temple. But I am part of the new temple. And Jesus being its cornerstone, I think that is the picture that's being portrayed in the

scripture. I think it undergirds a whole lot more of the scripture than probably I saw in the past. And what's funny is, this is the funny part about it. We're talking about writing a book on this. This is the one topic that we've kind of shied away from the whole time that we've been doing this podcast. And now, like, here we are. But I think it's because it's by going through the scriptures, by going through the gospel of Matthew, going through the gospel of Luke, going through Hebrews. I mean, you notice that this theme keeps popping up, Mark, I mean, over and over and over again.

It's kind of hard to escape what we're talking about. Yeah, by the time you get to Romans 9, mercy is mentioned in verse 14 and 15, verse 16, verse 18. Mentioned twice in verse 18. Mercy, mercy, mercy, mercy. The whole thing is dependent. on God's mercy, not their works. Not our effort. But to go back where we were in Luke 18 about being persistent,

praying to God, having a relationship, you know, we went through the book of Romans because we did ask that question, well, you know, if God's unchanging, and seemingly in a lot of people's minds a million miles away, and why are bad things happening? Why should I pray? I can't change anything. You know, when he gets to chapter 11 of Romans, it's just a little statement, but the impact is amazing.

It said, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable, which means can't be changed or reversed. Well, just list the gifts of God. If we started listing the gifts of God, mercy, forgiveness, eternity, yeah, love. And then you say, well, how do you... Patience. Yeah, how do you define the call?

You know, his gifts and his call are irrevocable. Do you realize how encouraging that it? He called us, he called us through Jesus' death, bell, and resurrection to himself. I mean, he gives us the idea that we can be a part of his kingdom and his family. forever. That is the call through Jesus. Well, no matter what happens, no matter what happens, no matter what happens or how you feel about God or you feel, because what we happen, our circumstances on earth, things don't go well.

People die, people suffer, people make mistakes, all the things that cause oppression. And they're like, well, where is God in all this? well make a list of his gifts and make a definition of his call through Jesus and what you'll see is those verses like we read while we were sinners Christ died for he demonstrated his love all these things trump our current circumstances and it's irrevocable generational all people can have access through Jesus every person so It's actually such incredible news that it almost is mind-blowing that you can be a part of this kingdom is what I'm getting at. I mean.

Well, in earlier, Jay, as you had said something about one of the arguments was that people were still waiting on Old Testament prophecy to be revealed. But Jesus was clear. And later in Luke 24, when we get there, verse 44, he said, he told the disciples, everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the Psalms. And so it's pretty clear to me that Jesus is the complete fulfillment of all Old Testament privacy, of all Old Testament law, and in all the things that were appointed at in the Psalms. He is it. So when he came here, that was the thing that changed everything.

Now, once he got here and then the New Testament writers, they gave us a few more things. to look forward to. They gave us some revelation and prediction. We're looking for the end of time. We're looking for things in the future, from their future. So it's not like that we still don't look forward to some things, but when you're worried about somehow something hasn't happened yet, it was mentioned in the Old Testament. It happened in Jesus. And then after that, we can figure it out from the New Testament. But if you're still waiting on that, you're going to be in a bind when it comes to really understanding the nature of the kingdom. Yeah, the righteousness should mention it's by faith, but Israel who pursued it a law of righteousness has not attained it.

Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith, but the ones it didn't make the cut, but as if it were by works, they stumble over the stumbling stone. You can't earn this. This is a gift. Yeah, and I would, and I, that's a good point, Phil, I think that Romans 9 passage and 10 and 11, And we, which will, at some point, I'd love to get back into this. But that's a whole lot more about what we're talking about in the kingdom than anything else.

That's right. I mean, it is a, it's a whole lot more about that. I think if you go into Romans, you think about what Paul said. I said earlier, when Paul introduces the book of Romans, what does he say? I'm going to, I'm basically going, I don't want to say reinterpret. I'm going to, I'm going to further interpret the prophets in the vein and in the revelation of Jesus Christ. You can't earn it. You can't earn it.

And that's his point. That is his point of grafting the Gentiles in, and not just the Gentiles, but the unbelieving Jews as well. We come in the same way where there's no distinction. We're one people or one body or one faith, one Lord, one baptism, Ephesians 4. I mean, but I was going to say something that you said, Al, that I was thinking about the Mount of Transfiguration, which we talked about in this podcast in the previous episode. That's really what when Jesus is, you know, on the Mount of Transfiguration,

Who's he talking to? The law and the prophets. He's talking to Moses and Elijah. And it's in this person of Jesus, he's the summation of all that. He's the realization of all that. Going back to what Jay said at the beginning of this podcast or the last one, that it is a person that we're being drawn to, a person, not just an idea, but a person, Jesus Christ, the son of the living God. And he wanted Peter, James, and John to know that because they were the ones who witnessed it. All right, we're out of time. We'll fetch this out of little bit more. Seems like our kingdom study continues on. It has a lap of its own. So we'll see where we're going over time. You want to follow us over at blazedtv.com slash unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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