Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 790 | Phil & Kirk Cameron Explore the Growing Pains of Raising a Family in Hollywood

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

Christian actor, director, and author Kirk Cameron bonds with Phil over their graying beards, their love of Jesus, and willingness to stand on the front lines of Christianity. Kirk reveals the unlikely way that he became a Christian and shares how he is creating alternatives to the inappropriate children’s books that seem to be popular in schools. Phil, Al, and Kirk discuss how to live a godly life in a time when it’s looked down upon in popular culture. See all the projects Kirk is working on at https://kirkcameron.com! In this episode: John 8, verses 42-47 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Today we've broken it down to the basics. We're back to the originator of the Unashamed podcast. In fact, many people don't know this. I don't know if I've ever talked about this on the podcast, but when we first started, Blaze had asked us to do it. Dad had just finished in the woods with Phil.

And then, of course, Zach and I produced that series. And we did 800 episodes of that show. Can you believe that day? 800 episodes. 800 episodes. I knew we did a lot of them. That was a, I don't know how many people I knew this. That was a no notes.

No. It was just, I'd live in. We call it Phil unplugged. Yeah. So that the idea was, and we, we produced the earlier shows, more heavily than we did the end. We had a lot of gas stone. But it was pretty much just dad doing what he does every day,

either in the woods or in the kitchen. We're in the duck line. We had some hunting episodes. But anyway, it was fun. And by the way, whenever you subscribe to Blaze, as we're always telling you to subscribe to get our overtime for this podcast, but you also get all 800 episodes. So, I mean, it's well worth the treasure trove.

If you're into Phil and Philisms, Turn the fire on low, put a lid on, never look at it again, never look at your rice, never do this for a rice pot. Once that boils, you would never want to go, what a how my rice is doing? Don't do that. Don't stir it and don't look at it once I drop the lid on. But that's coming after it boils. It's going to roll way up, come way down. The rice is going to take all the fluid up.

You're going to put a lid on it, simmer it for about... six or eight minutes, turn the fire out, go watch TV or something, let it sit there and rest for 10 minutes, 15 minutes. This will feed 12. You say, you got any company coming? Not that I know of. But what if a stranger drops by? Romans chapter 12. Practice hospitality, Romans 12. Offer your body as a living sacrifice. I'm here in the morning cooking rice. If I just cook it from me and Miss Kay, if somebody drops by, or two drop by,

or four drop by, got any of rice. The problem with America, they don't cook big pots of rice anymore. Little bit a bit for me and my wife, we don't worry about the rest of them. 90 plus percent of the time, at midday, y'all would call it lunch. We call it dinner. Someone always going by.

We got plenty of rice. It was quite the run. But so when they approached you. You're into the Bible. Yeah, that's right. Well, what I loved about it, Dad, was you did, my favorite episodes were the ones where you just took something out of nature, something you see every day, and then talked about how that related to faith or God. I thought that was really good.

It was a great show. So, Blaze came to us about doing this podcast. So basically they were just, it was just going to be dad. You know, most podcasts are just solo, you know,

they don't have an entourage like we do. It's just one guy. And so it was going to be dad doing the podcast. And I thought, well, I said, how long is it supposed to go? And they said,

like 45 minutes to an hour. I said, well, I'm not saying dad's going to run out of material, but he's pretty, It's going to be a withering sermon, however many times we do this. So I was a little apprehensive about the setup. And so originally, it was me and dad.

It was just the two of us. And we were just going to do a Bible study. And I was just going to kind of tee you up to do Bible study. And then you said, because I said, well, you know, I feel like we need like a third wheel there once in a while. You said, well, let's get Dan on there, which is really funny because I don't think we've ever had, have we ever had dad on the podcast? We've got to have Dan on. sometimes. So it was me, you and Dan. We thought, okay, he'll be like our sidekick. So Dan, he's on there. And so Dan, so 45 minutes of conversation, and Dan would say, so what you're saying is, that was usually about the extent of the Dan lines.

But I thought it was pretty good because he would ask questions of me and you. And so we would do that. But that was the original podcast. And it wasn't called Unashamed. It was called, I think we called it the fish net. And the idea was is that we're now fishers of men. And, you know, we had been fishing, commercial fishing our whole life. So there's a little, I don't know that I've ever talked about it on the podcast. If I have, it's probably, you know, 600 episodes ago. But that's how we began. So I feel like we're back to the basics, dad, because we don't have Dan here. We don't have Jace. Jace is finishing up his little digging series. And then I don't know where Zach's parts of unknown today.

So it's back down to the original, Dad, me and you. Could you think you can handle it today? Oh. Yeah, we know, we talked to so many. Yesterday there was an entourage. I want to hear about yesterday. Of women.

And I told them they came in and they made my little class. They laid my little class. They made that. Unashamed Bible class. Nine o'clock. Every Sunday. We ask people, which a lot of people, have you come to be baptized, we will do that free of charge.

It will cost you nothing. And so we'll remember, I said, if any of you are, you want to start all over again and die to sin, be buried with Jesus and be raised with him and receive God's Spirit, well, about a pretty good little troop of them raised their hand. And I would say these girls were about, all from 16 to 20 maybe. So they were young. They were about that age group.

Yeah. Where did they hail from? Do you remember? They came from, ended up in some kind of rehab center. Like a house or something like that. Yeah. And someone brought it up. I don't know the lady that was,

but that was a guiding them being their breakthrough there. Yep. But I tell her, I said, you've done a great job getting all these girls together to come here to be born again. You're doing a good deal. You know, in a situation like that, there's always somebody that has a heart for ministry that's doing that kind of work. And some people are afraid of water, deathly afraid. Oh, yeah. And a lot of them, there was a couple of them, because I just noticed when they walked over to me,

and a little shaky baptism of poo where they come over and they were just shaking and shrieveling and I said listen everything's going to be all right we're not going to drown you I said we're going to have our hands we are going to put you to death

we use words like that that kind of tends to frighten being the old girl and the new girl is fixing to step forward you think of somebody I mean they were just shaking somebody's mortally afraid of water is come here girl let me put you to death

I said we're not going to going to hurt you, you know. And then, but they would just look at me and say, let me wait, wait just a second. But, and so a couple of them, when they went down in the water at that moment, they, in their mind, said, this is, I'm dying. This is it. So you got a literal illustration of the putting to death metaphor. Yeah.

I got it. And I was surprised that they literally thought it was they were going to die. Yeah. So when they went down, I mean, when they came up, I mean, they came. I feel like. Like a jack in the box. Everything's okay. You're okay.

You know, I said, you'd be all right. But I was smiling inside to watch those young girls. But to them, they didn't probably realize it fully, although I had just gone over about 45 minutes. Make sure you understand this. Make sure you understand you're submitting to God and you're going to receive God's spirit. I said, and you'll get out of that stuff you've been into, all the drugs and all that stuff. I said, so you're starting over. Yeah.

I said, God's giving us great opportunity here. I said, so this old person, we're going to bury her, but we're going to raise her up. I said, we're here to help you. We're not going to hurt you. They just, they were afraid. Yeah. Well, you may have actually helped in two fronts. One is, of course, their spiritual renewal, which is the most important thing, but you may

have helped a few of them with their phobia of water as well. I hope so. You can come out of that water. It's okay. That's pretty cool. You know, and look, we tell you this all the time, so that's open to anybody wants to come visit. Because a lot of you say, man, I wish I could come meet you guys. And like everybody else, we got a million things going on.

But on Sundays, we're there with our church, and Dad's doing his class, unless something's, you know, unless he's sick or, you know, rarely on the road, he's going to be there laying it out every Sunday. So the option's there. I'm up preaching this Sunday. and because I go nine out of ten meetings someone will want to be baptized are a lot of someone's 15 or 20 of them at times but a lot of them are obeying the gospel Romans 6 is a good tight verse about what's happening when you die to sin you're being buried and you're being raised to walk the new life you know you know your sins you're free of all your sins those girls had a lot of sin yeah they were young

but they had a lot of sand. But fortunately for them, it sounds like they got in a place that guided them to the right answer. So the name of my sermon Sunday, Dad, because we're about three chapters behind in our preaching, and then we are on the podcast. And the name of it is the finder of all things lost. Yep. You know, and it's on Luke 15, which is the lost coin, the lost sheep, and then the lost sons. I'm just kind of getting into it, but we talked about it on the podcast.

you know, both the sons, I mean, we tend to highlight the prodigal that left, but the other guy that stayed, he had a lot of issues too. You know, he didn't trust, he didn't, he wasn't celebrating, he didn't want the lost son to come back. So, but God shows in the story, Jesus showed the father, is one who seeks all things lost. So even those that, you know, we look at the Pharisees we've been talking about in these texts in Luke. but Jesus wanted every one of them to humble themselves and come to him. You know, it didn't matter what their status was. And you were talking about those young girls, whether it's them or, you know, some old seasoned guy that's been hanging around but never really committed himself.

Yeah. Either way, you've got to commit yourself to Christ, right? Yeah. I mean, young, old, whatever it is. I do notice that Maddie has laid out these DVDs, which must mean that they are now available. So, Dad, there you are in the movie. Based on the inspiring true story that started a dynasty. So there you go.

And there's a picture of your mom on the back now, which is pretty cool. Actually, I don't know if we ever showed it, Maddie, but there was a picture of mom and dad like at 16 and 14, like leaning against a car, and then somebody said they redid it. I'd love to show that to the audience, which is kind of a picture. a cool, somebody, the updated version. It's funny, Dad, because people local, there's a few of them that, because some older members in our church, and I said, so you saw the movie in there lay in.

I said, what do you think? And they said, oh, we loved it. You know, we thought the acting was great. But, boy, they, that guy was nothing like Bill Smith, which I thought was funny because there's people that knew Bill so well. And I was like, yeah, but you got to understand, like, you can't, like, you can't, like, nobody can be another Bill Smith. Bill Smith was about as unique as they come.

The old boy did his best, you know, based on what we told him he needed to say as an actor. But yeah, you're not going to get the exact representation. Same as the guy that played you. I thought he did an okay job. I actually thought the one that was the most like the actual person was the actress that played mom because she just had a way about her that was a lot like mom. But, you know, that's just me. My whole thing in the movie was, you know, I was the one told to get to bed.

It seemed to happen about six times in the film. So it seemed to be my role as a youngster. So we sent Jay's out to get us some stories. So we're hoping when he gets back, we'll have that. He's finishing up the series for his, I guess it's, I don't know how many episodes they've done, but a lot. So we'll look forward to that and we get back. So we're going to have a very special guest on today. It's not just me and dad for the whole podcast.

We are doing the open. We've got a guy that, I don't know if we've ever had him on the podcast. Yeah, we've had him on. Has he been on? Okay. And you and I have been on his show several times as well. So it's our old friend, Kirk Cameron. So we'll take a break.

And when we come back, we'll add Kirk to the proceedings. Now, we might have been on his show instead of him. I'm not sure if he's been on ours, but he may have. Because we've had a lot of interactions. So we'll see. But we'll see on those other. Welcome back to Unashame. We've got our old friend Kirk Cameron in the house.

Kirk, welcome to Unashame. Oh, old is right. Old, old, old. Look at the gray in my beard. I'm nearing Phil Robertson levels at this point. So that was the first thing Dad noticed about Kirk was. Kirk in California, his whiskers, they're real neat. Oh, yeah.

They're trimmed or something. He keeps that in a nice level. I don't have squirrels. I don't have squirrels. Making nests in my beard yet, Phil. Well, Kurt, you've been down to Louisiana enough to know that, you know, there's Spanish moss that flows from our trees down here. And from your chins. And from your chins, right.

Dad's got that Spanish moss look. And I've been wearing a beard now for a couple of years. I used to shave it off, but now I've got some extra chins under here, and I'm not sure how many there are. So I think I'm just going to wait. Maybe more than a Chinese phone book. Exactly. That's exactly right. But it's always good to have you back, brother. You're our favorite California, just so you know. Dad says you look totally normal, even though you're from California. Yeah. Well, you know, people rightly decry some of the evils that they see coming out of California.

But what I say is, God made a beautiful state. We have mountains. We have the ocean. You can go snow skiing. and surfing on the same day in California. Yeah. And there's agriculture and oil and a lot of Christians in California. We have 40 million people. It's just those those couple of spots that have so many people who hate God, hate America, and the Constitution that really mess it up. That's it. And, you know, you can hunt ducks in California because we've done it before.

We've come out. We used to go out. It was great duck hunting. Great duck hunting. especially up north, northern part of California is fantastic. Yeah. And look, every time I go, I mean, I always joke, Kirk, when I go to any blue state that, you know, Lisa and I were thrilled to parachute in behind enemy lines to be able to bring some red state cheer to the state.

But you're right, I find that any state, but especially California, when I go and visit Chico or Bakersfield or, you know, so many places, some of these great towns, I mean, there's just, amazing, wonderful, hardworking Christian people like there is in any state. And so you're right. You know, you just, there's a few spots that obviously kind of control everything else, which is always a shame to me because the length and breadth of a people and a state usually are as good as go, but it's just unfortunate that it's kind of become a one-party rule out there. Yeah, yeah. But pound for pound, California has a lot to offer. And, but people are fleeing like rats on a sinking ship and they're going to Texas, they're going to Florida,

they're going to Tennessee, they're going to places where they can find a refuge morally and spiritually. And I understand that. But I want to stay on the front lines because as goes California, there tends to go the rest of the country. And so if we can hold back some of this evil here and see a revival here, what could that mean if it could happen in California? I think that's why, I think you're exactly right, Kurt. In fact, dad used to say, I don't know if you remember this, dad, you said this when you were young. I mean, like, new in the faith, you used to always say that everything good and bad comes from California. You remember you used to say that?

I mean, every trend, every fad, you know, whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, it seemed to always, the wave seemed to start out there. And I think that's why I was so touched by Jesus Revolution, because, you know, looking and watching that revival that started right there, you know, in that state and then swept across and made such a big difference back in the 60s and early 70s. I mean, it really is that that's got to be the hope and the dream, which is really powerful. Now, you grew up in California, correct? So you're a native. Yes. Yeah, I'm a native.

That's right. My roots are out here. My wife is from New York. And we met working together on the set of growing pains when I was 19 years old. And we got married. And so we've stayed here and raised our kids. kids here. So that's, I want to ask, I'm glad you brought that up because I was, I was thinking about you coming on and we've got some things you've done that we want to talk about a little bit

later, but I was just curious because Lisa and I, I'm going to say it felt, we got married in 1984. And so it felt like we were fairly newly married. When did Growing Pain Start? Mid-80s, right? 85, six. That's right. So we watched the show and liked it. I mean, you know, back in those days, It was pretty much just basic network television. I mean, cable was just kind of starting up. And so that's all we had living out here. But I was a fan of the show. And, you know, watching you was interesting because you were kind of the,

and I don't know if it's the same today or not because we're all old men now. But back in the 80s and 90s, there was this thing about, like, if you were a celebrity and you were a teenager, you had this whole kind of thing. Like it was the magazines and the squealing teenagers. And maybe it started with Elvis and it just kept going. I don't know. But, Kurt, you were one of those guys. You were like the young, cute teenager and, you know, had all the girls swooned in and all that.

But I'm really curious because obviously you're a believer now. You're so engaged and involved in things that protect young minds. And so at one time you were, you know, in the system of television, which it wasn't near as bad as it is today, obviously. But I'm just curious, what was that like? I mean, because you were very young, right, when you first got in, commercials, stuff like that. So you kind of grew up with it, huh? Yeah, I did. I was nine years old when I started in the entertainment industry with commercials, McDonald's commercials, tied detergent commercials. And then when I was 15, I started on growing pains. That was my big break. And since then, you know, everything took off.

And that really was my normal growing up as a teenager, which was very unique. And so I'm forever grateful to God for saving me at a young age when I was 17 years old. Because you and I both know the trajectory of most young people who have a large degree of popularity and access to drugs, sex, drugs, rock and roll and have anything that they want, they go off the rails. and they go off the cliff. And so the fact that the Lord was so kind to save me an atheist in Hollywood when I was 17 years old just fills me with gratitude because I don't even want to think about where I'd be apart from that. And I know you understand that. I don't Phil understands that we, all of us have that same testimony of where would we be

if it weren't for the grace of God. Amen, brother. So who, did someone talk to you about it? Did someone help lead you there? What was the, how did you make the transition? Was it somebody connected to the show? Well, in the Providence of God, there was a really cute girl who came on to the set of growing pains. Somehow I knew.

Somehow I knew a cute girl was going to be involved in this story. That's right. It's not good for a man to be alone. And so I wanted to ask her out on a date. And she said, well, why don't you come meet my dad and my mom? And so she gave me an address. And I drove there one Sunday morning and realized that she had sent me to a church on Sunday morning. And I wasn't a Christian.

I was an atheist. But I also realized I was an actor. So maybe I could fake it for an hour. And I went inside and I heard a great sermon from a preacher named Chuck Swindall. And I started asking questions. and eventually I was sitting in my sports car, parked on the side of the road, and I asked the Lord to to reveal himself to me, to forgive me of my sins, and to make me the man he created me to be, and began to read a Bible, and became persuaded that Jesus is who he said he was, and I wanted to

follow him as my Lord and Savior. So that was the beginning of my spiritual journey, and it all started with having my eye on a pretty girl. Yeah. And you did. Didn't. Good story. Nothing ever happened with her, right? So she just introduced you to Jesus, and then that was it for that, huh? That's right.

She introduced me to Jesus. And, you know, that was a high school crush. And we really haven't talked to each other. And, oh, I don't know, 35 years. I had no idea. I need to read your book because now I know I would love it because Chuck Swindall is one of my top three authors and Bible theologians. So every time, you know, we do Bible study here on Unashamed. And so Jay says Tim Keller is his guy, but Swindall is my guy.

And so like whatever I'm studying along with what we're studying here, whatever commentary Swindal is always a part of. And I had no idea. So he's still there? Well, he's in, I think he's in, I don't know, he's still in California or he may be in Texas. No, I think he's, he's in Texas now. Yeah, he wound up being an instructor at the Baptist Theological Seminary for years. I think he just retired.

But you know, Seeley, who does all your books, does all of Swindaw's books. And I hope to get to meet him this out of heaven, just to tell him, I appreciate all of his work. But now I've got one more thing to thank him for preaching that sermon that day. So Kirk Cameron would hear about Jesus. I never knew that story, Kurt. That's awesome. Well, he's one of the faithful ones. He's one of the true blue soldiers.

He's always been a rock, and I always appreciate him. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Let's take a break. So in our study, Kurt, we've been doing, we've been talking in Luke 17 and 18. And we just happened to be at the place in our Bible study where Jesus, people, verse 15, says, people were also bringing babies to Jesus to have them touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them, you know, because I guess they thought he had more important things to do. But Jesus called the children to him and said, let the little children.

come to me, do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter. So that's where we literally left off in our text. And you were coming on today. And I really can't think of a better text for us to be in than that one, because I don't really know of anybody in our sphere, in our world, that's doing more right now for protection of children than you and your wife and what you guys are doing. I mean, both in this book, which would have mentioned that you just did, but also the unborn. I mean, every time, you and I cross paths at several different events from time to time because we're both reactive on the pro-life side of things. So, I mean, do you think that's exactly what

Jesus had in mind when he told his disciples this, even though it was the context of them bringing them in for blessing? But the idea of protection of the young minds and the young lives is, is that not really one of our first calls? Yeah, I think it is. I think it is. And there are so many evils, right, that we can look at. And we recognize that not only does God make children the focal point in this passage, but the evil people throughout history have always focused on the youngsters. You look at Hitler. You look at others. Phil, Phil is a student of history, and he can tell the stories as well as anybody, Hitler understood that if you want to win the culture and the future, don't worry about the old guys because they'll be dead soon.

Get the kids in your schools and train them seven, eight hours a day. Then you got them. And now you own the future. So the children need to be our focus. And that's why Jesus put such an emphasis there, I believe. And that's why I'm trying to write children's books and engage parents to take back. this sacred duty of education for your children. Don't outsource your parenting to the government.

They'll turn your children into little state robots. Yeah, they're... Voddy Bakum, he's a preacher. Many people appreciate. And he said, if you send your children to Caesar to be educated, don't be surprised if they come back Romans. Yeah. No, that's good. And you're exactly right. In fact, tell us about this. I just got an email Saturday from a group that you're working with. You're kind of their spokesperson about having an alternative to these book fairs. And I was very curious about it because they just had a grandparents day at my kid's school. My youngest daughter, her three children still go to public school.

And, you know, we're in a region where that's still pretty safe. But even then, you know, you're always aware. And, you know, I'm a grandparent. So they're pretty smart. They have you come to grandparents' day. Well, that's the same day they have the book fair because they know who's got the money, right, that's going to be able to go and buy the books. So I was in this book fair.

And I admit, I was looking through, I was, you know, checking out authors. I was flipping through books because even in Westman or Louisiana, I know there are forces at work, right, that try to slip these things in in whatever way. So this just happened a couple of weeks ago. So when I got this email, I was curious about it. Tell us, tell us a little bit about what you're doing with that group. Yeah. Well, many of us have seen those videos on YouTube of the concerned mother or father who's standing up at the school board, just explaining to the school board members about the pornography or the sexually explicit material, the inappropriate gender confusing material that's being taught to children in public schools and public libraries,

pleading with them to remove these books. And many of them just get ignored. They get shut down. And we were asking, where is this material coming from? Let's go after the head of the snake. Who's producing this stuff and putting it into libraries and schools? And we did some digging and we found out that there is a wolf and sheep's clothing that lives in your public schools and libraries. And its name is Scholastic books.

Scholastic. We've all grown up with Scholastic. They're the ones that have those great book fairs that Grandma and Grandpa come to and the kids get excited with all the colorful books. And do you know, they're the number one largest producer of children's books in the country, maybe the world. They're a billion dollar company. And they're owned by. Black Rock and Vanguard. They are the thousand-pound gorilla in the space of children's books, and they're now lacing their material with sexually explicit, obscene, pornographic, gender-confusing, and race-infused content, and they're marketing it to kindergartners, to get them to explore drag. They're marketing it to second to sixth graders to teach them how

to transition from being a prepubescent girl to growing your own two-inch willie by injecting yourself with testosterone and not telling your parents about it. This is this is not an exaggeration. I'm going to show you something. These are the book covers. This one is called Welcome to St. Hell, my trans teen misadventure. And this is the one that shows full frontal nudity, sex acts between girls and girls, boys and boys, and it is absolutely awful. These are other ones named Rick and Melissa and stars in their eyes. There's ones for kids with a grandfather and a grandson coming out to each other as trans and hiding this from the parents so that nobody knows and grandmothers grooming their little grandson into, you know, wigs and eyelashes,

makeup, heels, and becoming a mermaid in drag with adult men. It's just awful. So, so what, here's what we've done, you guys. We are exposing this, and we want people to go to our website and download the PDF that will give you all of the page numbers and the book title so that you can see what we're talking about. I am not exaggerating. See it with your own eyes and show it to your friends and your principal and your librarian and your school board and demand that these books

get taken out of your libraries for kids and replaced with good, wholesome books, with Christian values. And I've got a website for that so people could check it all out, but that's what we're up to. Yeah, and there's a task that's much needed. Well, and it's, and you know, it's interesting because the other side, all they've come in, and so they're arguing against everything Kurt just said is, oh, yeah, these concerned, is this Kirk Cameron, these guys.

All they want to do is ban books. So they take the whole discussion about what's appropriate for children, lump it into something called a book ban, and then just say, you're the evil one for not wanting children to see this. But you're right. The only way to do that is to expose it. Well, and they're the biggest book banners of all. Remember, they want to ban the Bible from the school. They want to ban prayer from school.

They want to ban the Ten Commandments from the courthouses. They want to remove biblical Christianity from Western civilization and paganize all of our children. So they're the biggest banners of all. The truth is it's not that someone wants to ban things and others don't. Everyone wants to ban the things that they think are evil. And they think the Bible is evil. We think pornography and obscene material is lewd and inappropriate and damaging. to children. So we need to have a moral standard. And I want to go with the 4,000-year-old standard we got from Moses

that has produced the freest, most blessed, and prosperous societies that have ever lived. And that's in the Bible. So definitely check that out. Go to Kirk's website. Sky Tree Bookfares is the alternative that these guys are working on. So let's take another. So, Curry, I want to talk about, So you're not just, you know, part of your attention, obviously, is dealing with what's out there that we don't want for our kids. But you're also a proactive guy, which I love. And you are one of the brave book authors. And I'm holding up here in my hands your latest book, The Fox, the Fair and the Invention Scare. And then you also have another one from the series as you grow, which you must, you must have done that part of the earlier series.

But tell us a little bit about this, your connection, what Bray's book is trying to do and why you're writing children's books. Well, I don't know about you guys, but if I spend too much time watching the news, all I hear is problems, problems, trouble, disaster, evil. It's pathetic. I can't even watch it. I can't even watch it. I'm like. I know how you feel. Yeah. Yeah, Phil, I'm right there with you. And unfortunately, a lot of believers in the church. take this as a cue to start crying in their Chick-fil-A soup and giving up. They just want to put their head in their hands and pray to get rescued by the rapture. Meanwhile, let's say we're here for another 100 years, and our grandchildren have to live in this world. We need solutions, and we know that the solution is to turn back to the Lord,

and we need to teach these things to our children, truth and goodness, the gospel. And so I'm working with brave books because they have pro-God, pro-America values in their books. They're teaching children about the value of life in the womb. They're teaching children about honoring God, about the fruit of the spirit, about the first and second amendments of the Constitution with colorful pictures, beautiful stories, and it's all designed to reinforce the family. This new one I wrote is called The Fox, the Fair, and the Invention Scare. That's the one you're holding in your hands. And it's all about loving your enemies.

And with everything going on in the world here in the United States, the Republicans and Democrats are trying to kill each other. We need to give our kids a better strategy. And Jesus said, you've heard that it was said, love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say to you, love your enemy and do good to those who hate you. And then you'll be like your father in heaven. And that's what this new book is all about. Now, I love it. And, you know, I have my younger grandchildren love to read books. They love to have their mom or Lisa, their ma'am, to read books to them. And we've loved the entire series. There's a lot of adventure in there. And what I love about it is it really just kind of, you know, it's not preachy in the sense that like a Bible study, but it's the themes of what's important. So these books can travel across all spectrum.

You know, you could, you're not just trying to put it in your face, but you're teaching truths, which really should be in any book, right? Kirk? I mean. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I agree. And what I like about that is if you turn to the back of the book, after the story's finished, it roots the good values in the scriptures. Yeah. And that's important because you don't want kids to think, oh, this idea of loving your enemies and being loving and kind is all rooted in the LGBT. community because it's not. The truth is, is that these ideas are rooted in the scriptures of loving your enemies. And if we don't hold on to the root, the fruit will spoil over time. Because that that crowd that wants to say we're inclusive and loving in rainbow colors, I have discovered that while there's, there are, there are beautiful people made in the image God that are trapped within a system there that want love and they want to show love.

Many of the activists behind the movement are the most non-inclusive judgmental people who come after those who disagree with their fundamental precepts that morality can be determined by how you feel sexually. That's just not true. So we've got to root even good, obvious ideas like loving your enemies where they belong. that's in the soil of the word of God. That's it. When Jesus is talking to these certain groups, he said, this is John 8, verse 42.

Jesus said to them, if God were your father, you would love me. For I came from God, and now I'm here. I'm on the earth. I have not come on my own, but God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Now listen to this, because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth.

For there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his name. language for he is a liar and the father of lies yet because I tell you the truth you do not believe me can any of you prove me guilty of sin just one mistake am I guilt where am I guilty if I'm telling you the truth why don't you believe me he who belongs to God here's what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. That's John chapter 8, but when you look at it, you say, man, the father of lies and the father of murder. Well, we have a lot of both going on, and it's getting worse and worse. You say, the power of the evil one, we just,

we've fallen victim to it one one after the other so we're going to live in some uh tough days in the next 20 years we've got some some rough things to go through unless this this nation of our changes there are mine yeah but but phil in all of your in all of your years as a football player. Did you ever have an exciting, thrilling comeback game that just stayed in your memory? And you said, you know, I just didn't think that we had a hope or a prayer. But you know what? Something happened and momentum changed and we ran that ball down the field and we won. Why can't that happen in our nation? It can. With the help of God, it can happen. It can happen. Amen. Amen. There's a lot of biblical revivals. Let's take our last break.

And you know, Kurt, Dad brings up an interesting point with that text because that text starts out in John 8 with the idea that these people had been convinced that Jesus really was the son of God. It says they believed him at first until he began to explain more about it. And then all of a sudden they realized they didn't believe. And it's interesting because the theme of your book, the newest children's book, The Fox the Fair and the Invention Scare, deals with loving your enemies. You know, it's like me now. When I sit across the table from someone or in the living room and they're sharing with me how their lives have gotten in such a bad place, you know, I feel, I never feel content for that person because I realize the evil one just got him.

You know, he got a hold to their heart. They allowed him in. And then, of course, havoc is reek. And that's what happens. But, you know, I only have empathy for this person. And you mentioned several groups in our conversation today, Kyrgy. Every one of those, I look and I say, man, the evil one has just sold them such a lie. Yep.

That this way is the way. But it ends with usually so much havoc and so much difficulty. And so, you know, I just, I feel like that's our role. It's just to show them something better on a consistent basis because we know something better. We know a better story. Yeah. You're right. And I bet this verse just fired off in a bunch of people's minds when you said that.

There is a way that seems right to a man. But the ends thereof lead to death. I have a wise old owl in my life who pointed something out to me. Phil probably knows the scripture reference. I don't know the address off the top of my head. But the scripture writers say that Jesus would, was speaking and the sinners and the tax collectors were listening intently to him. Now what I find so interesting about that is that if sinners and tax collectors, if the notorious

wicked of the society are not listening intently to you and me, maybe Jesus was saying something different to them than what we're speaking to them. That's a great point. And that may be an indictment to us to say, we might be so holier than thou and speaking in such religious jargon that the notorious sinners don't want to have anything to do with us. Jesus must have spoken a way that communicated love to their heart, compassion for them, and he wasn't looking down as religious nose at them. He wanted to connect with them because he saw value there.

And maybe we need to look at the way we're communicating so that more sinners will listen in to what we have to say. 150 years ago, they were still, and they started out when they started going to universities, all the gates had Bible verses when you entered them. Harvard, all of them. The Bible verses just came up to a end and down they came. They were basically preaching schools. Preaching school.

They were seminaries. They were at. That's right. Look at what happened to them when they started down. road they're now on. It's just sad. It's what I'm trying to say. I feel for them.

Well, I do too. And I think that's the point you were making is the, when you see what the E1 has done in the different areas of our culture, education being one of them. Higher education being the most prevalent now when you look at it. But you're right, though, Kerr. I mean, the pendulum swings. And, you know, the reason there's a David and Goli's story in there is that sometimes things seem so big and unbeatable. But you know what? The battle belongs to the Lord.

So just like that giant was spelled in that Old Testament story, the same thing can happen here in our current culture. I mean, the main thing is you can't give up. And what we need to remember, Al, is that David knew something. The rest of the Israelite army had forgotten. And that is that Goliath was not the giant. Yeah. There was a bigger giant behind Goliath that David could see. And that's the Almighty.

That's right. He's the giant. And he is the one that we worship and that we fear so that we need not fear man. Yeah. It's a great point. It made me think about that. Jace loves to tell the story when he's on ear about Elisha when he was surrounded by the Arameans. And the servant was like, oh, no, he was ringing.

in his hands. There's no way we can win. Look at this army we're facing. And, you know, the Bible doesn't say this, but you kind of imagine Elisha looking at him and just kind of winking and saying, Lord, just show him what I can see. And then all of a sudden behind that great army was the army of the Lord. And it was like, oh, there it is. You know, just every once in a while we need that vision, right? Oh, boy. And I'm, you know, he must have had that vision because You know, when he soaked all that wood with that water, you know that he was thinking, Lord, if you don't come through right now, I'm going to get turned into a piece of charcoal here by these bail worshippers.

Well, in our last couple of minutes, I know that you also, you've been going out. There's been some opposition, of course, to you, just from trying to read these books that you and the other brave books authors do. I know Missy did a book as well. And then she came on the podcast and actually told the story when you guys were up in Franklin and kind of ran into some trouble there with how folks, you know, didn't want you reading the books. But the people showed up. And so I think in the end, that's what keeps guys like you going. Curry, I know it's what keeps me going is the reason I love to do it is the people keep showing up.

They want to hear. Yeah. They want to hear what we have to say. Now, there's pockets of people that try to block us. but you just can't stop, right? I mean, you guys just decided we're marching on no matter of. And I've seen more of that, Al, in the last year. Oh, yeah.

There's something going on out there. I'm not quite... People want to hear. Somebody other day, some had me there with a... I had maybe a gun or something, and he said, whatever the little thing he said was, but he basically said, this guy, stay away from him. He is not woke.

I said, oh, I'll always. woke up this morning like everybody else. But they confessed, I'm not woke, whatever that is. Well, you know, Phil, that's what everybody loves and appreciates about you is that you are authentic. You can't hide your genuineness and your sincerity when it comes to your faith. You're not manufacturing it like a lot of us actors have been trained to do. We manufacture things.

We put on a mask and a facade to make people. applaud us, but you're just, you just exude, authentic love for the Lord and love for people. And that's why people love you so much. I mean, they're excited about you know how to hunt ducks too, but mostly it's your heart that people really appreciate. I think you're exactly right. And I think it's the same reason people love you too, Kirk. We love when you get to come down, come down and hunt with us again. We talk about Dan, he's, he's Kirk's guide.

He gets him down here and his boys when they're able to come with him. but it's always a pleasure. Check out Brave Books, which is where you can find this latest book that Kirk has done, as well as the other great authors. Also, Kurt mentioned his website. I'm assuming that's Kirkhammer.com. Is that right? Yes, you can go there.

Sure. And get information to find out what he's doing and what he's working on. And be sure and check out this book fair stuff as well. Kurt's always a pleasure to have you, brother. Keep doing what you're doing. And well-minded souls you find along the way, brothers in ours and that's what we are with you. We appreciate you, brother. Yeah, appreciate you both. Thank you, guys. God bless you. All right. Thanks for listening to the

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