Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 793 | Phil Robertson & Hard-Rocking Skillet Frontman John Cooper Drop FIRE on Woke Culture

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

John Cooper, author, podcaster, and singer from the Christian rock band Skillet, finds common ground with Phil when it comes to being an ambassador for Jesus wherever your mission field is. John shares his journey to Christ, how the current culture is damaging and dangerous to future generations, and what we can do to change it now. Al gets Phil reminiscing about his greatest achievements on the river and in the woods. Get your copy of John's book "Wimpy, Weak and Woke" wherever books are sold. In this episode: John 8, verses 31-47; 2 Corinthians, verses 11-21; Galatians 5, verses 19-23 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashamed. And I feel like we're back to square one again, Maddie. We're back to just me and dad where it all began. We had Cy and Philip on the last podcast, and that was a lot of fun. Cy's passion is, I think, the thing that we love about him the most. And, of course, he's always fun. He loves, you know, doing Bible study with us.

And so he gets that opportunity. It doesn't always get that on our little sister podcast, the Dunkard Room. So it's fun to get to do that with him here. Jace is still on the road, but he'll be back for the next podcast. And maybe Zach will be, who knows. But so you know he's going to have some tails. But so I thought that just to begin, because we've got a guest coming on today, I'm super excited about when we get there.

but I thought about the reason Jace is so good to kick off our podcast is because, and I'm not, we've all determined, I don't know how much the stories he tells are actually factual. I mean, I'm sure they're based, they're based in some truth. But if you've noticed, with Jace, it's always like the worst thing ever, the greatest thing. It's always the extreme, which is what makes the story so interesting. So I jotted down some questions. Since we don't have Jace here, I'm going to channel my inner Jays. And so I've got some questions, Dad, for you about the greatest. And so I want to hear, check your memory.

Some of these, I think I know what you're going to say, but I may be surprised. The first one is, what is the greatest duck hunting memory that you have? All the years of hunting, looking back over time, what's the one that sticks out the most that was like it could just be a scene in your mind, it could be some group of ducks, it could have been something they did. What's the greatest duck hunting memory that you have from all your vast years?

One morning, we all went to an old, big old Cypress tree, and we had a duck blind up in the tree. We got there before daylight. And this thing is like, would you say more than 50 feet off the water, right? No, it was about 20. 20? 20, okay. So we up in.

this tree and it was like you're you're hearing winds the the winds only duck hunters know of when ducks are descending from the sky down to you so we're hearing these loud before daylight before daylight and i concluded it started getting breaking day you could look up and the dots in the sky were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and they're just working like that and every once in while 75 100 all mallard they just come down in front of us that's before legal shooting ours yeah so we're all just sitting there i said so they're just lighting in the lake they're lighting right out there in front of us yeah i said how far are we off legal they said another eight minutes i said and i said we're going to we're going to see something this morning.

And the mallard ducks, some pintails, gathered up, and they came down in front of that blind. And when legal got there right at it, we're in the middle of nowhere. The gunfire started. I think it was about six of us in the blind, seven maybe. With empty our guns, the ducks would rain out. So it was the greatest duck slaughter of all my years.

So they just kept coming until y'all got tired of shoot. They just kept coming nonstop by the thousands. And they just rained down. Yeah. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I looked down there after about 20 minutes, 25 or 30 minutes. I just looked down there to my right. And the dead ducks were just washed up like a, like a,

debris field. Yeah, but you still remember the sounds and the moment of... When the almighty made ducks and put it in some people's hearts just to study them and to hunt them, to call them, to eat them, it was all this all came together one morning. As we were leaving, just had two boats, just load up the boats, and here we go, we're leaving the premises, divide them up. But as we were leaving,

I just turned around and looked back, a couple hundred yards, we're leaving the button woolers we're getting on through the woods. And I looked back, and about a hundred, 150 just coming. Still coming.

Still coming. Didn't even slow down. They just kept coming. That was probably back in the 70s. Back in that, but 1972. Yeah. That was kind of the heart of it.

So it probably, I think it's in this same place, Dad, but I'll ask you my next question. So what's the greatest haul of game fish you've ever had? Now, not commercial fishing, but game fishing where you, because you used to do a lot of game fishing, bass fishing. I raised a hook net up, and I felt it's coming up, and the fish are in the net. The net is about a six foot, almost a six footer tall. Yep. Long volume. It was catfish.

I got them up there. It was about a thousand pounds of catfish. One net. Well, you're not going to lift a thousand pounds. You're one man. A thousand pounds is too much weight. You could never lift it. Right.

So I sat there and I thought about it. I could tell the net had a lot of fish in it. Because if you had to try to raise that, you'd have broke the net. Oh, broke the fiberglass net, the hoops on it. I said, can't do it that way. So I took the drag out of my, it's a piece of metal, and it's got some prongs on it with plenty of rope. I took that and I threw it over the end.

We were like this. the net just come up. I threw that weight over there. I grabbed the rope on the back. And I was letting it out on the front. I got them all, but I can't get them in the boat. Too many of them. I mean, they're down in the water, but they're just there, 1,000 pounds strong.

So I grabbed the whole of the tail end of it, cut it, tied a bottle around it where I could come back to it. and I just started drifting, and I was just barely going across the river. I got in there as close to the bank as I could, water was about this deep, and I mean it will just when I got them over there and where I could stand there and look at them, I got, went up at my house, it's right down below the house where all this is going on. I finally got me a net, a small net. with handlers on it. And I could pick up about three or four or five catfish at a time.

Some of them went up to 20 pounds apiece. But I backed my truck down, went around and got my truck, backed it down in there on the trailer. And I started going up there with four or five pretty good size ones like that, eight, ten pounds of piece. I started throwing them in the back of my truck going down there through my boat. So you were literally dipping fish out of your net. Dipping fish out of my net.

Had my truck parked out there, and half of it was in the water. And I started throwing them over in there by myself. And I'd go get another load. I'd go get another load. Well, when I got done, my pickup truck was like this. The hole, I took all the junk out of that. A thousand pounds is a lot in the bag of your truck. It was a thousand pounds of catfish on there.

Tied off. I finally got it to the last once. I mean, I was tired of. who were out, but I got them all on there. Jace come driving by, and I'd eased around there and got on the bank. I said, now we got them in the truck. So I said, hi in the world are we going to sell these catfish? I got a thousand pounds, Jace pulled up there, and he said, good night.

He said, that was in one net. I said, one net, that old big six-footer we got down there. So now I got my truck full. I divided them half went to Miss Kay The other half went to Jace I said y'all go to town And get as much as you can You know times are hard

That's the only way we made a living Yeah Because it was too many for the market to take Because you flood the market Yeah the market Market price you were looking at 700 bucks In the back of that truck The direct sales you pay

And that's the story where Jay's told I think he got $100 maybe $200 or something We ended up about $500 $600 Yeah, which is almost what you would have got. Out of the whole thing. Yeah. So, but that was the biggest, heaviest catch.

So that was commercial. I said, 1,000 pounds of blue channeled catfish, blues, we call them, in one net piled into one truck, couldn't have another one. We just mounted up in the truck. They went to town back over in their quarters, you know.

Oh, yeah, sell them over where they could sell them. Sell them where you go, beer joints. Mine and leases. I'll give you all these catfish. These, how much? much are they? Oh, that dollar apiece for them. So, Jayce was, you know, working to deal with them, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, me and Lisa, our first date was a daytime bar in a black neighborhood. And, of course, nobody's there during the day. Place gets going gets to hopping later at night. Oh, yeah. But there was one old guy there, and I had some back of the truck, some buffalo and some goo. And I said, he said, what are you doing here, boy? I said, I got some fish into my truck.

I said, let me see what you got there. He looked over in there. How much you want for that fish right there? And I said, that's a $4. $4. We're back and forth, back and forth. So he finally settled it, too. And the minute that fish went out of that truck and his wife came or woman come out

and pulled two kind of crinkly $1 bills out of her bra and gave it to me within 30 minutes, I had sold the entire truck. Yeah, $100 bill. No, these were just $2, because I was selling by the fish. So I wound up making about $40 off of that load of fish and then brought it back home. But that's what we did. That's what we did. Which is how we did it.

That's a little taste of what I was like and what life was like before I became a Christian. That's it. All the duck calls and all that, that all came later. That's right. But I wanted to tell some greatest tales without Jays, because we can't. do it and these of course are much more factually based so we got that in we're going to take a break we come back on the other side we got a very special guest with us and so I'll tell you who we got on the podcast first time and for Unashamed nation after this break so welcome back to Unashamed I am super

pumped about our guest today and I don't know for some reason I mean we have a lot of really cool guest on but like John your your your story is so different and your life is so different, and yet we serve the same God, so I'm like super pumped you here. John Cooper's here today with us. Welcome, John, to Unashame. Hey, it's great to be here. Thank you so much. We have a lot of connections with you guys, so it's pretty cool. Kyle Thompson, who's been on our podcast a few times. He's, and to our audience, you remember Kyle is, Dad calls him Redbeard. He is the undaunted life guy, and he's amazing. He's a good friend of mine now, and so he connected. John and I go. So let me tell you about John, because you may not recognize his name.

I didn't really know who John was until Kyle told me about him. And then I started looking up some of the stuff that's on the Internet that he does, and the man's amazing. So he has a band called Skillet, and we're talking Grammy nominations, platinum songs. I mean, very successful. There's nothing wrong with a little jive here. Some rock and roll.

I'm telling you. And it's so funny, John, because I love your music. I did not, I've never listened to your music. And, you know, we all kind of have our genres here. Dad, like, he was a, I guess we would call it Southern Rock, but, you know, Eagles, Leonard Skinnerd, CCR, you know, that's all the stuff I grew up on, late 60s, early 70s, little Motown thrown in from time to time, but mostly it was kind of that classic rock era.

And what I ran into is when, you know, telephones, I made this argument the other day. Telephones, okay. You know, you call, hello. Yeah, yeah, call me back. All right. So I went from telephones to cell phone. They said, next, we've got something brand new, cell phones.

Well, the cell phones, you know, that's when they'll show you a woman's butt while you're talking to the person that called you. So he's got a cell phone. Well, this cell phone, I didn't look at it but just a little bit, and I said, I don't think I'm going to get one of those. I don't believe I need to get one of those. So that knocked me out of today's modern world because I never got so bold as to be able to get me a cell phone. So you're probably not going to actually. I'm a cell phone free zone.

What you're saying is, Dad, you're not going to accidentally come across John's music. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, unless they somehow put you on the old. Rock and Road channel that he watches on the satellite that I come in sometimes he watches. So let me get the rest of his bona fides. Not only does he have this Christian rock band, but also

he's written some graphic novels. He's written a bestseller called Awaken Alive to Truth, which is excellent. I did a little scan on it. That you. And he's written a brand new book, Dad, and this title, you're going to love it. It is called Wimpy, weak, and woke.

Yeah. Somebody sent me something another day. Dan had it. This guy, he's a solid brother but never got married. I said, you're pretty smart, really. But he come out of it in the free zones. But he showed me some of their jive. And I said, I tell you what, that's pretty good right there. Oh, yeah.

I just stay in touch with him. Well, and so dad has been accused to being woke, but he's not sure what it is, which we're going to talk. Somebody had a picture of them and they said, not woke. That's exactly right. Not woke. I didn't know what they were talking about. He showed it to him, and I said, Not woke.

What does that mean? So John also has the Cooper Stuff podcast. I want to mention that because it's excellent. But what I love about you the most, John, is you are a student and an unashamed proponent of the living word of God. It's evident through everything that you've got out there about you. And so welcome officially to Unashamed. And so tell us a little bit about how do you wind up being a rocker.

I mean, I know you talk a little bit about your young life. if your mom passed away when you were just a youngster, right, a teenager, and you've talked about how that affected your life. I guess to start with, just how did you become a Christian? How did you become a follower of Jesus? Yeah, absolutely. I love to talk about that. And I love the name of this show, Unashamed.

I'm not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. It is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes. Thank God for that. And I should say, we also have another connection because I, toured with Sadie a few years ago on Winter Jam. So me and my wife and Sadie are pretty, I would say, pretty good friends. I love Sadie. I love what she does for the kingdom. Listen to this. Listen to this. She was, she was about four and at four years old. I'm at Sadie. Yeah. I'm her grandfather. Well, she walks by and she starts preaching about Jesus.

She's four years old. And I'm listening to her. And I told Willie her, I said, really, you got one there coming because that girl there, she was preaching the gospel at four. And I thought, what, no, world, when she gets another year or two, that's girl. I mean, we were stunned. She's got an an anointe him. I don't want to interrupt you. Keep going.

Yeah, no, you're right. Sadie's definitely not, she's out of shame to talk about the Lord, that's for sure. And my mom was the same way. And so I was raised in a Christian family. My mom was a Jesus fanatic. She talked about Jesus everywhere we went. She'd evangelized to everybody. And I remember picking up on it at some point in thinking when we would go to the grocery store.

I remember when I was about eight or nine years old, I was like, are we going to get groceries or is this going to be like an evangelism outing? My mom says we're going. She says we're going to get groceries. But I know she's going to have a word for. for somebody. Music was also a big part of our family because my mom was a piano teacher and a voice teacher and a flute teacher, but I'm proud to say I never, never played the flute. But, but, uh, skillet would have been a whole other band if you had have been a flute guy. Let me just say. Maybe a little more Jeth Rotole, which might be, uh, Phil, down Phil's alley there. Yeah, that's right. And, um, but anyway, yeah, so music and and Jesus, that was what I was. our lives were about growing up. But the funny twist on this is that my parents were very against

rock music. They really believed that rock music was from the devil. And when I was in about sixth grade is when I discovered there was Christian rock music. And so my friend gave me this tape of a band called Petra. And I was bringing Petra back home thinking that my mom would approve of it because I thought she had never heard of Christian rock music. And I was wrong. My mama knew all about Petra. And she gave me a holy butt whipping for listening to the devil's music. And that's kind of a funny story. So anyway, I loved that Christian rock music. My mom got sick with cancer when I was about 12. And she fought cancer off and on for about three years. It came back again. And she died when I was 15. So I was a freshman in high school. And,

And but through all of that, long story short, God used that in my life to teach me what it meant to know Jesus, not just as a Lord, not just as a Savior, but to know Jesus as a friend, to know Jesus as someone who is close to the brokenhearted and to understand what life was all about. And our hope is not on this earth, which is a good thing because this world is passing away really fast and really insane right now. but our hope is in Jesus Christ and for eternity with him. So that's my long story put in short form. So it's really interesting as well. Let's take another break. It's really interesting, John, that your wife is also in the band and has an amazing voice because I listen to a lot of their music in this last few days.

And your kids, you have a couple of kids, they travel with you guys and tour. So what's that like just being the rocking family that tours the world, you know, and doing what you guys do? Because obviously your wife bought in, right, to this whole thing. How did you meet her? Yeah. So, you know, my wife was playing in her own band before we got married. So she's from Wisconsin. I'm from Memphis.

And basically, the church I was going to was a sort of sister church to her church up in Wisconsin. and her dad's a pastor. And so my pastor kept saying, hey, I know this, I know this other girl that's kind of your age that also plays in a band. And she wants to play music for Jesus the same way you do. I bet you guys would like each other.

And my pastor was never thinking romantically. He just thought, hey, you guys are doing the same thing. You should meet. And so she came down to Memphis. We ended up meeting. And I remember saying to my pastor, I said, you know, I'm kind of starting to have feelings for this girl, Corey.

and my pastor who introduced us, he said, he said, oh, no, no, no, she would never go for you. She's, she's really deep, she's smart. And he goes, and you're, you know, not. You know, you're you. While you're there, while you're there, I've always rejoiced at this. This is 2nd Corinthians, chapter 5, verse 11. since then we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men,

which is what we're all doing here. What we are is playing to God, and I hope it's playing to your conscience. We're not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we're out of our mind,

own mind, it's for the sake of God. If we are in our right mind, it's for you, you Corinthians. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all and therefore all died. And he died for all that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised together. So, from now on, we regard no one in a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ that way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he's a new creation, the old is gone, the new has come, and you're part of it, John. All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ.

and check this out, gave us the ministry of reconciliation that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. You're like, whoa. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. Play it loud, my man. We are therefore Christ ambassadors as though God were made. making his appeal through us. Now, I looked at you and you looked at me, and, you know, we're not rednecks, but it's close.

But even rednecks who put Jesus in front of people, we implore you on God's behalf, be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us. Thank you, Lord. So that in him, we might become the righteousness of God. So we're kind of like Christ ambassadors on the earth, a little rough around the edge edges, but the message is the same. Jesus died for the sins of the world, was buried in a tomb, and is guaranteed us we'll live beyond the grave.

I don't have a better story than that, John, do you? I know. That is the story. That's the story of all stories right there. It's what the world, I mean, I understand why, but they just, they get it wrong, you know, the world that I'm in, which of course is a little similar to the world you guys are in. You guys are on the TV and the celebrity side of the Hollywood. You'll see your mom again. That's right. You'll see your mom. That's right. Her spirit is in heaven and God is watching over it. And that's all wherever. we're all headed. So we all get back together.

It's going to be pretty good, man. Rock and roll all day long and no sins, all gone. So, John, I want to ask you this. So Dad has definitely shown our hearts together. And from what I've read so far, and I haven't read the entire book, but I'm diving into it. In the intro of the book, you said someone gave you advice years ago to write the music, and rocked the mic. That was the two things.

They said, as long as you keep doing that, you know, you're going to do what God wants you to do. And you said you did that pretty well. You added spread the hope because just what dad said, because the message of reconciliation. And now you've added a fourth one, and especially with this book, and that's why I want to get into it talking about it.

And it's tell the radical truth. And it feels like to me, you were sort of like us. Like we, you know, we had always been proactive in who we were. We shared Jesus with anybody who would listen to us, but nobody knew who we were, except some duck hunters because, you know, our life was down here on the river, and we were fishing, and we were building duck hauls. And our opportunities were through that venue. And then all of a sudden, we find ourselves on national television, and it wasn't an accident from the Almighty, because he knew he had us ready to do it.

And then someone comes in, and this is kind of on the early stages of what we now know is cancel culture, which you talk about. quite a bit in the book. And someone comes in and asks dad, a pretty straightforward question, is homosexuality of sin? And all of a sudden, you know, someone's asked you a biblical question, and so where do you go to answer that question? And dad went to the Bible. And then, as you know, and everybody in America knows, we were embroiled in this huge controversy because all of a sudden it's like, where these Duck Dynasty people believe this, this, this, you know, go through the whole thing because we quoted scripture and this what we believe. And so we didn't really set out to be this voice of truth in an entire culture and to start taking the abuse that you get

from people that don't believe it. But that's exactly what happened to us. I feel that way kind of with you. I mean, in terms of, it sounds like to me you never really set out to do that, but it's just who you are. And you talked about COVID and you talked about George Floyd and that whole era and how it kind of pushed you to just be truthful about what's there and what you see. even though it's not exactly like you map that out. Is that a fair way to say kind of what got you into the world during now and writing books like Wimpy Week and woke? Yeah, I think that that's a great assessment.

And it is similar to the story you just said about you guys, because I just wanted to play music. I wanted to share the love of God with the world through my music. I wasn't looking to be controversial. I am aware that Jesus is controversial, but we were living in a time where you, could, hey, we could go play with bands and they could talk about sex, drugs, rock and roll. I could talk about Jesus.

Somebody else could talk about whatever they want to. And all these things were still on the table. That began to change as America has really rejected Christ, not just rejected Christ, but actually sees Christianity as the source of all of the problems in the world. And I think that's the new thing. Twenty years ago, people who are atheists in this country didn't look at Christianity and say, Christianity is evil and oppressive and it makes the world terrible. But that is what's happening now. And so then the pressure comes.

And the world who really is increasingly loving evil and loving wickedness, they begin to think that they are the good people and that they are the moral people. And Jesus is the biggest oppressor of all. And so that pressure came on me and I said, hey, look, I wasn't looking for controversy, but if you're asking me, just like they asked you guys, if you're asking me A, B, or C, I'm going to tell you the truth because I'm not a coward and I'm not about to say things that I do not believe just to keep my job or to become more famous or to appease men because we fear God. We don't fear men. It's better to obey God than it is men.

So that's why, yeah, it's time to get a little bit loud. and to explain to people mainly to Christians who don't understand what's going on. There's a lot of great, really good-hearted Christian people that don't understand what the battle is yet because they just don't want to believe that it's true. And some of this book is saying, hey, it's a wake-up call. You have to understand the world is coming against us in a way that we've never seen in America. It's time to stand your ground, stand for the truth, but also in standing your ground, you're really showing that you love people because Jesus will set you free.

And what the world's offering, it ain't hope and it ain't going to work. And it's actually slavery. It's going to make people's lives worse. That's exactly right. Let's say it. Let's take a break. So I love one of the things you said in the book that it's not really about cultural wars, which is just kind of a nice, bland way to put this battle.

You said it's a battle of gods. It's a battle of the living God versus the gods of this earth and the gods of this age, right? And I think that's such a poignant way to put it. Now, you use the word a lot, Utopia, in describing sort of this false God that's been established. And so talk a little bit about that because I feel like that's kind of at the core of what you then launch out of and when you get into the specifics in the book. What do you mean by utopia and why do people think that they can, the habit here? You said, here's your phrase, we must burn the utopia to save the world, which is a bold statement, but I think it's true.

So describe what you meant by that. Yeah. I think that you, here's what it was. There's been a lot of great Christian books and philosophers coming out that have been talking about the Marxism that we're saying, for instance, or the sexual revolution that we're saying, or the communism that we're saying. There's all these various things. But to me, I was saying, yeah, but what is it the old? all-encompassing thing that has to do with all of this.

And all of it is a utopian dream. And that's why, whether you're talking about why college kids are cheering on Hamas, raping and butchering people on October 7th in Israel, or whether you're talking about why kids are coming on from school with gender theory material, saying they can be a boy or a girl or neither or both. or something completely different. Everything that's happening is about this utopian dream. So all that utopia is is a concept of the perfect society, it's the perfect world.

Everybody has everything they want. Everybody is equal. Nobody is hurting. The state takes care of everybody. And they're not talking about equality under the law. They're talking about equality of outcomes. And the idea of utopia is that once everybody has everything they need, then no one will ever suffer again.

And they won't commit crimes because they have everything they need. And this is why you see progressive cities when they begin to let people out of prison and they don't want to send people to prison because they basically say, no one would do anything bad unless they had trauma in their life. And what they are ignoring is what the Bible calls original sin. The sinful nature of man. Utopia is impossible because, Mankind has evil in his heart.

That's why we need Jesus. That's why Jesus died so that we could be recreated and be given a new nature that doesn't love wicked things. But now is bent towards righteousness. So that's why it's been so much time explaining what utopia is. But I want to say one last thing about it and then I'll shut up. What I think a lot of Christians don't understand, let's just talk about sexual utopia. The world right now truly believes that the real.

that people are suffering is because they are not liberated sexually. And once people get completely liberated sexually, then they're never going to want to do anything bad to another human being again. That's the reason they're coming after your kids, all these perverts in Hollywood and all these perverts in the media. They have to come after young people and try to train young people to not have any sexual inhibitions and they need to destroy the ideas of manhood and womanhood, the gender binary, destroy all of those things so that children can begin to think sexually and unleash their sexuality. And if they do that, then all of our problems are going to be solved and no one is ever going to hurt another person again. This is how twisted it is. These people

think that they are doing something righteous. And this is what the book of Isaiah says, woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who trade darkness for light. That's what we're seeing in the 2020s. And that's why when they came after you guys to cancel you for your comments on homosexuality, that is why they say Christianity as the greatest oppressor. I'm really happy to have our audience listen to this. In John chapter 8, Verse 31, Jesus is trying to convert some people, and here's what he told them. You're determined to kill me, as it is. You're determined to kill me.

Speaking of himself, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things, the father of our faith. You're doing the things your own father does. They said to him, we're not illegitimate children. tested, the only father we have is God himself. Jesus said to him, if God were your father, you would love me. For I came from God, and now I'm here. This is right before he died on the cross.

I have not come on my own, but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you're unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil. and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there's no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language,

for he is a liar, and check us out, and the father of lies, speaking of the devil. Yet, because I tell you the truth, you don't believe me, can any of you prove me guilty of sin? me guilty of sin? I mean, he's never made a mistake, Jesus Christ. If I'm telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God, here's what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. So he struck out with trying to get them to see the power he had to remove their sin and raise them from the dead. But they said, get that out of

Get out of our face. It's a sad thing. That's Acts chapter 8, and he told a group, just like the groups during this time, it's not new. The evil one, he's the father of lies and the father of murder. Yeah, which goes back to your ultimate point, John, about the idea of this being the gods of the earth, which ultimately are fueled by Satan, which is the ultimate enemy. I'm so glad you brought that up about this sexual utopia because in the book, you used abortion as an illustration of that. How when God made us a certain way to have sexual procreation for life, that became part of our purpose. And you pointed out rightly, I think that's why abortion has been such a scourge, because once you come in and change that as to the purpose of sexual identity between people, then you start to see this.

you see murder and you see death. I thought about the same thing with when I was reading that in your book about pornography. It's the exact same thing. It winds up being empty without fulfillment because it never was what God created in us to do. And so now in our culture, because pornography has been put out to these young minds, especially young boys, by the time they get into their 20s, and this is outside of God or Christianity, this is how we're made, they're impotent and can't even have sex with anybody

because of what it's done to their mind and the poison that it's put in there. And so I felt like it was exactly the point you were making is that once you follow the rabbit hole of the false utopia and the false God, then you're going to wind up not with what you thought you were going to find in fulfillment, but instead in emptiness and being off track. So it was really a well-made point I thought in your book. Well, thank you. And you just hit on something so profound and so tragic. You know, I opened my book with a passage of scripture from Second Chronicles, and it says,

why do you break the commandments of the Lord so that you cannot prosper? And that's really what the whole book is about. It's laying out two different options. And in fact, the Bible says this as well. God says it to us, I put before you today, life and death, choose today whom you will serve. and I want you to choose life. That's what God is saying. But what is so tragic is that when man pursues our own ways and we say no to God,

we think we're going to make ourselves happy. We think we're going to find that, as you said, that sexual utopia. I'm going to find my satisfaction in pornography or in drugs or whatever it is. And it just makes everything worse because you are breaking the commandments of God. I think one of the most profound things in the book that I wrote is that, is this. People got to put their thinking caps on for this, but I think it's a pretty cool point. God created a moral universe and God created a moral law so that when you obey God's commandments, you are in the flow of the universe he created. And things go well with you because his commandments

are not arbitrary. He doesn't just say, don't do this. And you say, why? Because I said so. Well, he's got a better reason than just because he said so. He's got a reason because that's the right way to do it, and that's the way the world works. And so when you obey the commandments of God, you find this amazing thing called contentment. You find joy in your life, and you find out that actually the best sex you'll ever have in your life is in a covenant marriage between one man and one woman for life. And that's going to be fulfilling and you feel safe and it is meaningful. Think about what a good God we have. He did not have to make sex pleasurable.

He could have just made procreation work that way so that you can, you know, you keep the species going. But no, God said, you know what? I'm going to do something because I am good. I'm going to make sex pleasurable. And it's going to bring a man and a woman closer together in their union for intimacy and for pleasure and all these wonderful things, it proves that our God is actually a good God and he wants us to be fulfilled and content, but he wants us to do it within his design,

not just because it's righteous, but also because he loves us. It's going to work out better for us. And so I think that when we put that in the terms of America, I would say, man, we are going down the wrong path. And if you want proof that the sexual revolution is not working, all we have to do is look and say, all right, we have the most tolerant generation of all time. We're teaching kids about sex at age, gosh, fourth grade now. We're teaching them gender theory in kindergarten. Pornography is ubiquitous. Sexual revolution has occurred. And what is happening with young people? The highest suicide rates in America. history, the highest rates of depression in American history, the highest rates of kids who are on

medication in history, our kids are lonely because we have taken out all of the meaning of life and we've tried to pursue man's ideas and it ain't working. But if we would just return to God, we would see things change and we would see kids become whole. The acts of the sinful nature are obvious. Sexual immorality, number one, impurity, debauchery, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you as I did before that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom. But the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, peace. patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control against such sayings,

there is no law. That's the fruit of the spirit. I mean, you would be a fool to say, that won't work. You say, oh, it'll work. The fruit of the spirit. But without the spirit, it ain't going to have them. No, it's so good. And one of the things, because we're running out of time, but one of the things that I love, John,

and you're very upfront and fair, I think, is you've criticized the way that the kingdom of God and the church, especially, has embraced a lot of this stuff. And really tried to say, we can live with, like, you know, if we care about people, we're going to take, you know, to somehow not be divisive, we're going to embrace some of these things that are out there. And you pointed out clearly you got criticism. We got a lot of criticism as well and still have. But you just got to call it out for what it is. But I thought you really did a good job in the book in being upfront about that. We can't hold hands with the devil and the world in this false ideology and somehow think we're helping people.

We're not. We're becoming stained by that. By the way, I have a book coming out and it says, we could be wrong on the you make your t-shirt we could be wrong but as we walk away the backside says but i doubt it i like that we could be wrong i don't think so so speak to that john in our last couple of minutes we have here speak to that just how you see that out there and and you've you know gotten a lot of criticism of that yourself sure sure well i really appreciate that and and I just want to direct people to my website,

John L. Cooper.com. That's where you pick the book up. At the moment, that's the only place you can get it unless you want the Kindle version, which you can get at Amazon. But I think what has happened is this. And again, I'm going to go a little bit deep for a second,

but it's really important. I put 650 footnotes in this book. If you want to know the original words of Karl Marx and Freud and all these people, the reason I say that is because a lot of Christians, when they hear me say something about Marxism, that Marxism is satanic, it's demonic, they jump on me. They go, John, you're just turning people off. It's not about that or you're being alarmist or you're making it sound worse than it is.

And I say, bro, you must have never read Carl Marx. This guy hated Jesus like you would not believe. And what I think has happened is that too many Christians in this country took this country for granted. They took it for granted. They thought, well, everybody kind of agrees on justice. And we don't really know what Jesus would say about politics or abortion or the sexual revolution or capitalism or fill in the blank.

But I got to say, they're really wrong about that. The Bible has the questions for the answers, excuse me, for all of these things. So it's not as if Jesus Christ has nothing to say. say about this stuff, he really does. And so I think what's happened with a lot of Christians is they say to you guys, hey, you know, Phil and Al, just keep it about the gospel. Don't talk about all that culture war stuff. But when I read my Bible, I see the Bible saying, yes, we have to talk about these things. Because as Phil just read from the Bible, this list of things, these people are drunkards. They hate their parents.

They are disobedient. They are swindlers. They are the sexually immoral. They won't inherit the kingdom of God. We're not telling people these things because we hate them or because we want to judge them and we want to point our fingers at them and say to tell them, you know, because for any malicious reason, we tell them these things because we love them and because we want to see them set free. So that's what I, that's why I say to.

a lot of these Christian folks, I know where you're coming from, but what you're supporting is really bad. And I'll end it with this. The only proof you need, really, of the movement of what I call like liberal Christianity, progressive Christianity, the Christian left, however you want to call them, the only proof you really need is look at what's happening in America. You've got Christian people supporting Hamas. I mean, that means you have Christian people that are anti- Israel, which just blows my mind. You have Christian people who are pro-choice, which blows my mind. You have

Christian people who are pro-socialism, pro-Marxism, and just look at what's happening in the streets of America. Crime. Are you kidding me? Look at what happened from BLM. Are you kidding me? Now, the bag is out on BLM. Everybody knows now. But man, if you stood against BLM like I did in 2020, I got rebuked Christians every day for that. And I just said, you guys just don't know what BLM is and it'll come out eventually. So what I would just say to Christians is this, go check out the book, Wimpy, weak, and woke. I believe that it presents a positive vision for how Christians can say, I want to see Jesus Christ, Lord of Heaven and Lord of the Earth. And what can I do in my life with my kids, in my church, to make it so, to make disciples of the nations teaching them,

everything that Christ has taught us. Glory to God. I got excited telling us story. Well, said, brother. You fit right into Unashamed. John L. Cooper.com is where you go. This is the book. Wimpy, weak, and woke.

John, we'll have you back on sometime. We didn't even get to talk about your music and other cool stuff, but we'll do that in the future. But check out John and what he's doing. Check out his website. John, thank you for being on Unashamed. Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.

Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to blazed TV at blazTV.com slash unashamed.