Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 80 | Phil, Jase & Al Tackle Religious Hang-Ups, the American Church Model & Women in the Church

Episode Date: April 24, 2020

The Robertsons dive into some of the most controversial questions in the religious world: What role should women play in the church? What does the Bible really say about church buildings? Is the American church model biblical? Phil manages to follow up Bible verses with Pink Floyd lyrics. Sadie Robertson gets rave reviews from Jase. And forget running with the bulls: Jase is excited to be running with the ops — Opelousas catfish, that is. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So, Jay's, I couldn't help, but I noticed that you resurrected the bomber hat today. This is not the original hat. Do you remember you gave me one of these hats that I still have? When you were a boy. Yeah, off your head, and I still use that hat today. It's one of these.

They used to... Helmut Latter. Military edition. But Duck Commander came up. with a version of it because Phil always warm and always warm. But I like it. But I couldn't find my normal beanie. Si brought it back from the military of Vietnam era.

Is that where you got the first one? He brought some back and said, it might as check this out of it. They keep your ears warm. But I'm wearing this because as soon as we finish this today, there's a time that happens every year that I do. I look forward to it. I've labeled it running with the ops.

You know how they have running with the bulls? I never got into that because I don't like to run with things that can kill me. But I like to run with things that I can eat, which is an opalusus catfish. Every April. I'm assuming the Apollus catfish got his name because he's the same color as the Apollususus horse. That's correct. And did you know that, you know, give me a little interesting factoid here, that no two Apollusus catfish have the same identical pattern?

That's true. But a blue cat does. Yep. Hmm. I figured you'd say, where did seawater dream that up? What department in seawater dream that up? Origin of life. I notice some of them are more yellow.

Some of them are darker. They all have a splotchy look about it. If you notice in different regions, they look a little different. I've seen pictures of them like in Oklahoma. They're a little different shade than they are down here, which I don't know what that means. They catch them out of the Amazon River. They don't call them Opelousis, but they have the old guy on there, you know, the big rod and reel guy. but I saw him drag one up about 75, 80 pounder.

Oh, the fish on guy? Oh, yeah. Oh, I like that guy. Yeah. Fish on? So every year I do that, look, Opalusus catfish are, they're mysterious in that you can't raise them because they become cannibalistic.

So you can't go to a restaurant. You're not going to eat Apollososus catfish. So people say, catfish, where are you eating catfish? But on Apollosus catfish, when you clean, if I took five catfish and cleaned them all, you would know the opalusus catfish because the meat just looks better and guess what it is and i told you when i went to israel guess what sea of galilee full of opalus's catfish i told somebody that i would have never dreamed over there by the way jace i gave you the belam ate off of about a 12-15 pound or the day i ate it so how was that was fantastic which is what spawned in me every year i run with

ops so i'm putting my nets out but right now the river's up the current is strong i will have a life jacket on yeah and you fall out and and it's dead it's uh cold yeah today i woke up and i was like oh i need a hat this bad storm came through and brought a cold front and so i'll give you updates what the duck commander which now because of the coronavirus you know that the store's not open and you know willie and his scheming mind because you got to keep you know he's a businessman what are we going to do? Oh, I got it. Let me send a filming crew down there and let Jace, because he runs with the ops every year. And so there, he's sending some duck commander cameraman and they're going to, because what we're going to do, what happens

is I take the ops, of course, I'm going to eat them. And I'll give some to the widow ladies, you know, like I always do. Yep. And off the top. What size op, Jase, would you recommend how much weight? What size do you prefer? I go three to 12. Yeah. Now, if it's below three, I throw it back. It's just a respect thing because I like them. I may need to get a little bigger. Get bigger.

And if they're over 12, I either give them to someone I don't, that I love, but I don't like. I understand what I'm saying. Oh, yeah. Because it's good. A lot of them like the big ones, the big ones. But their meat I found to be a little coarse. A little rubbery. Like the one you gave me the other day is 15.

He was a little. So, you know, I was hoping I wasn't. person you love but don't like that. I eat that one without any qualms. No, he's around the bubble. But an eight-pounder would have been better. Well, three to twelve is perfect. Yeah.

And so that's like these people saying this, you know, the same philosophy with big bass and big buck deer. They're like, oh, boy, I can get that thing to taste as good as a little one. Oh, yeah. No, you can't. You're a liar. That's right. See, you've believed that in your mind because you wanted to put the rack on your wall

or you wanted to mount the replica of the bass. But don't tell me a 10-pound bass tastes as good as a one-pound bass. I had found any bass that tastes good. And a big buck deer, the reason I don't shoot them, people are like, well, you're just, you know, what's wrong with you? Because I can't eat the thing. Now, people take it and they turn it into chili and saw,

and, okay, let's feed the world with deer, all right, big buck deer. I'm all for it. But I'm just telling you personally, I run with things that I deem delicacies. And a eight-pound-a-op is a delicacy. You're in the fresh-caught, crappie, chac-a-lay, you're into Apollosus cat and bullfrogs. And what are they all have in common?

Pretty fine table fair. They're the best. That's right. There's a good. So I'll start that journey, so I'm sure you can, they'll be documenting that in some way. So that's why I have to have that. Fish, Opelousas, cat, crapea, frogs, I would think they're not fatty.

They're not fat. No, they're very healthy for you. One of the best forms of fish you can eat, I mean, especially out of fresh water. And the thing about essentially about the op, the reason he's so good is his diet. He only eats live bait. That's correct. So we used to fish trot lines for him. Remember, Dad, in summertime, when the water's low, you can't fish anything hardly to catch them.

So you do trot lines. Yep. Those big swivel hooks. And I remember us, so he'd send us down, which we love doing it, to catch a little small perch and shad and brim. And you would bait, you hook them through the back with that thing. But you'd come back and sometimes that'd be a 25, 30 pound op that had gotten on. Well, the whole process, I enjoy the whole process. Because what I'll do is the fish that are deemed, you know, trash fish, I'll take those,

chop those up, and then I'll bake crawfish traps at the simultaneous. time. So when I run with the ops, I also have a side run on the crawfish because it's a crawfish season now. And the trashier fish that you can't eat. North Louisiana, we have about a two-month longer crawfish cycle because we're a little further north, a little cooler. South Louisiana, the crawfish has been coming out since February, March, April. Now their crawfish season is beginning to wind down a little bit. But ours picks up May, June, April, May, June. We catch about a little later than South Louisiana. It's always a difficult question.

By the way, Jace, they are literally millions of crawfish coming. Oh, boy, I know. I've been watching them. Well, backwaters are really good for fishing and for crawfishing, and so we had that this year, so it'll be a bumper year. And the reason you say, well, why do the ops only run two months out of the year or within that two-month time period? But they're going to spawn.

And you've seen the same thing with different other fish when it's time to spawn. They all go run the river. By the way, Jason, the property we just purchased, I put a 20-hook trot line out, baited them, went and checked the net, came back within 30 minutes, and I looked down there, I had about a 12-pound high fin blue on there. The next morning I had about five more catfish, so I had enough to feed 20 people off a little 20-hooked trot line. Which, by the way, for the audience, so we're doing a series. We're doing a series on In the Woods with Fish.

right now during the quarantine. It's called In the Quarantine with Phil. It's on Blaze TV. If you want to check that out and check out a subscription, they're still running a great deal. You save basically 30% off if you go and sign up. But on there, Dad's been showing that sort of thing. And this is kind of prime time.

It's kind of interesting this happened this time of year. Because you're talking about the crawfish, mayhaws, you know, running the ops, all that list this time of year. Of the things that I did, pre-pandemic, I've been doing during the pandemic. You say, what changed? Nothing except for one thing. Who is the poor soul that's going to town, which I've not been to town. I don't get there much anyway, but on Sunday mornings I used to drive up with the brothers.

Now you don't even do that. Now we don't do that. So the only thing I found different is that the individual that goes after staples, like green onions, onions, onions, bell pepper, celery, garlic, which, by the way, you can grow all that too. Bread, you can get by without it, but then you have like cornmeal, flour, things like that, salt, black pepper, so stuff like that. We've got a pretty good little head start and got a pretty good little deal,

but you still run low on flour. To make me all jelly, it takes a lot of sugar. Right. So sugar is kind of like, according to the individual we're seeing, usually Dan, sometimes Ms. Kea would go with her friend, her friend, and go in and get the stuff. So it's not the safest thing in the world with a pandemic going on. But hey. Well, you know, that's been one of the things they've said.

Me personally, I haven't moved in the last seven weeks. So I told Dan that the other days. Dan, does that mean you're the most expendable because you've been the grocery man? He said, apparently so. That's what I told him. I said, you're young, but you are expending. We could go on without you. I know during the tornadoes the other day when I...

The Dan, he was looking at it. You know, Dan is Phil's Butler, who I'm not sure where Dan came from. But, and he's a little different. But loves the Lord, good, just shows you, yeah. His dad used to do all your film, and, you know, the one that said that you have about a personality like a stick of butter. No, he had the vision. Yeah, you have the vision of a stick of butter. of a stick of butter.

Boy, was he wrong. So sometimes you get it right. That was steady Eddie Dan's dad. Sometimes you miss it. No, but Missy said, well, I wonder what Phil's Butler, Dan, which says that it's doing during the tornado. And so I played a joke on Ms. Kay. So when I called and checked on y'all, she answered.

I said, well, I was making sure y'all's okay. I said, you know what Dan did, don't you? Because he's a big workout guy, and he does all these, He's into ninja training. I think one of his handles on something is ninja dance. I said, you know what he did? I'll give him credit. He has one talked up dude.

I said, did you hear what he did? And she said, what? I said, he made himself into a ball and got into the refrigerator. And she went, did he really? Yes. You shouldn't be telling your mom and stuff like that. She never went back and said, oh, that was a joke. Yeah.

I was like, I never told her. As bad as she's probably repeated that now to 27 other people. I'm going to read about it on Facebook next week. But your mother keeps Dan busy, that's for sure, going to town. But we try to keep it at a minimum because, you know, get the stuff. You don't have to go back down for a couple of weeks. So we try to get it to where he doesn't have to go up there much. It's kind of funny because mom is so social.

And she is the full antithesis of dad because she's so social. and dad's so antisocial. And she's like, well, your daddy, nothing's changed about his life. He's just doing what he's always done. But my life is, you know, derailed because of the pandemic. Well, I got on to her about going out. I know. And she was like, well, I mean, I'd just rather be dead than not see my friend.

Because they're hauling her around and she stays in the car and they come out of their house. And then she talks to them from like 100 yards away. I was like, okay, just give it a rest. She works with a lot of, you know, let's call them trouble women. but she worked with a lot of them, but they're still having their deal. They do it now that's up by Zoom, which is pretty interesting. Pretty cool. They've been doing the Zoom Bible story.

All right, which way we're heading this morning? Well, let's take a break and then we'll jump in. So we want to sort of finish up back in John 4, which we were a couple of podcasts ago. We were talking about Jesus's encounter with this Samaritan woman. And it was really interesting. We sort of did a back and forth. And one of the things that we talked about is kind of where we left. off was that he basically told this woman when you look at verse 21 through 24, John 4, 21 through 24,

that everything that had been established by God, which includes Jesus, because remember, he's always been here. He was there with God in the beginning and before time. It just became flesh. He just became flesh. Roughly 2,000 years ago. Correct. So everything he established, Jesus was part of the establishment with the first the

tabernacle and later the temple the worship set up that God set forth for his people, which became the Jewish people. It kind of got splintered off inside a civil war. And then the Samaritans were, you know, they had their own worship on another mountain. But he's going to address that in this text. But what I found was fascinating was that he's telling this woman, this Samaritan woman, who had never met, who he shouldn't even been talking to. And I say shouldn't in quotes because a Jewish man, especially rabbi, would never have done this. But he explains to her that everything that's been in terms of worship up until the moment he's talking to her is changing.

I mean, it has changed in the sense he's there and it's about to change because it's never going to be the same again. Big time. I mean, this was a huge, you know, theological moment. Remember the place of worship that had been that way since Solomon's Temple, the place of worship out, Herod's Temple, I guess they would call it. 70 AD, Jesus looked at it while he was on the earth, 33, he said, not one stone to be left on top of another. That thing is coming down.

The place you go and have been worshipping for the last 15 hundred years, whatever, you say no longer will be here. And what's amazing now, they never rebuilt it. No, but I do find it fascinating. Jase, you can speak to this. You were there. There's just the little section area where they still go to. Oh, yeah. It's not even there, but it's the bottom of the wall, the foundation. Thousands of people go there. We went. I mean, you have to go through metal detectors and everything. And right on the other side is Muslim controlled.

Right. And you literally right on the line, of course, they're hollering on the other side at the Christians who are hollering, you know, as they worship every, they do it every weekend. And we were there. Is this what they call the wailing wall? Is that what that? That's okay. And they, look, there's people, I mean, I literally participated. There are people crying. I mean, first they're dancing, they're talking, they're singing, they're shouting, they're chanting, they're reading. You know, all this is going on at the same time at the wall. They still have it, the place.

Jesus told the woman at the well, a time is coming, are y'all listening? And has now come when the true worshippers will worship the Father in, spirit and truth, for they're the kind of worshiper the father seeks, God's spirit, and his worshippers must worship him in spirit and truth. He's saying, the time is coming when you don't have to go to church, to go to worship services, go up here to worship. It's Romans 12 all over again. Let me just give them three texts, Al. First and the whole book of Hebrews. Yeah. I mean, that's what it's all about. First, strength and three. toward the end of it says this.

Let's see. It will be revealed by the way. What was that? Don't you know. He said like he was at the whaling. Don't you know that you yourselves. Say where you're at, Phil. First Corinthians three, about 16.

You yourselves are God's temple and that God's spirit lives. in you. Remember what he told the woman at the whale? The time is coming and now has now come when you'll worship the Father and Spirit and Truth. If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy Him for God's temple is sacred. Here's a keeper now

and you are that temple. Hold on to that. All of us, one at a time, gather together and we all form the temple of God. Now, consequently Ephesians 319, 18.

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's household, citizen with God's people, and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Jesus is the cornerstone of the building. Listen, in him, the whole building that's me, you and all the other sons and daughters of God worldwide, is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.

You're like, we're the building. We are the church building. We don't go to church where two or three of us are gathered in the name of it. Jesus, he'll be there. You don't have to go anywhere. And in him, you two are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his spirit. That's why he said the worshippers, a little lady at the well. They'll worship the Father in spirit and in truth everywhere they are because they will be added one at a time like bricks,

like the old pink Floyd song another brick in the wall you say we're added to the wall sure it was like that song I'm just saying I never heard anybody read three Bauer verses and quote Pink Floyd in the same case

they didn't know what I'm talking about but I knew what they were talking about they said you're another brick in the wall you're nothing what God says is oh with Chief Coenstone you're something and you each brick in that wall

is an eternal brick But you're like me, when I heard that song, my first reaction was they need Jesus, because we are a wall. That's it. Yeah, that's it. They missed it. Everybody talking about Trump. Maybe they'll hear this podcast and come together and they'll be joined with the building. But the bottom line is you read those two texts.

Ephesians chapter two and 1st Corinthians chapter three, I just read it to you. And you say, and add that final thing about us being the. body, there's one body, and we all are together. Each member belongs to all the others, and it begins just to stack up on top itself. Therefore, in view of God's mercy, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual act of worship. That's Romans 12. Everybody needs to read Romans 12 and operate with what that says, and you'll understand the kingdom.

Unfortunately, people, I think, realize that what you just said. Then they use that for an excuse not to meet because you know, you see that all the time. I want to read, you know, read two verses that. Before you read them, Jace, just remember up to now you say, Sophia, what you're saying is you three brothers in a family group are seated at a table. What we are discussing with you and what we are doing with you here today, today is Monday. It's the second day of the week. We just finished up the resurrection of Jesus. We're seated here seated at this table aisle. We are worshiping God. And look, they can say all

they want to. A government edict, the pandemic will shut you down. We're commonists, so we're not going to allow you to worship God freely like in red china. and like in North Korea, Iran, you can't meet in the name of Jesus at a church building. So here we are, Al, three of us, we're talking to about four or five hundred thousand people. You're like, and you've got members of the household of God you're speaking to. We all together, the saved among us, you say, good night, we're the temple of God. No government edict is going to ever shut that down. That's right.

We may be doing it in secret and whispering the verses. but we're not going anywhere out. There were even some cases that have happened during the pandemic where people have decided to meet anyway, and then there were others where they did drive up. They just ought to do what the government says. We'll meet in homes. We're okay. That was Jesus's point. It doesn't matter where you came from.

It doesn't matter what system of religion you came from because they all were looking at Moses and Mount Sinai and the Ten Commandments and the Most Holy Place and all the rules. rules and regulation. Oh, yeah. All of a sudden, here he runs upon a woman, doesn't matter what gender, doesn't matter what you did. That's right. Sinful woman. For a reason.

And he's like, there's a new way to worship. Now, he comes up with in spirit and in truth, which is, to your point, what wasn't going to be a place on a mountain because I think about that Mount Sinai, what, you know, all what happens. She's arguing about which mountains should we worship on. But hang on just for you. read that. Let's take a quick break. In 2 Corinthians 3, comparing the system of Jesus and what was under Moses, he says, even to this day, verse 15, when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now, the Lord is the Spirit. And where the Spirit of the Lord is, there's freedom. You bet you. which is pretty much the opposite of how you see some religions function within a place mentality. There is zero freedom. I'm almost going to whisper this. The American model is not the biblical model. Be easy when you say that. He's saying we don't need a church building.

You say you are the building. I think that was his point. Another place, the whole book of here. Hebrews discusses this transition between the place, the former model, and then how Jesus just completely. On Resurrection Day, while you're there, what did you say you and your family did? What was that? Tell Allen and I said that again.

So yesterday you're- I don't remember what I did yesterday, Phil. What it meant? You're in the basement, but you took the Lord's Suppers. That was the last podcast. The Lord's Sapper. We took the Lord's Supper. Where were you?

What place were you, Jase? I was in my living room. You were in your living room. Yeah. So did you accept that as worshiping God? We were worshiping God. And look, I don't want to give you a heart attack or our viewers, but the only fruit of the vine I could find was some wine. I actually had real wine and some salt.

That's old school. That's old school. Yeah, I had some crackers. I mean, that's what we did. It's biblical. Yeah, that's what we're, I'm sure I'll get an email or till on that. So you worship God in your living room, and did you say, but did you say, well, it's really not worship because I'm not up here at some building with a steeple on it?

I got the concept. We were worshiping God. Yeah, it didn't matter where we are. That's why when I'm driving down the road and people pull up next to him and they're like, who's this guy talking to? What's he screaming about? Oh, no, I'm just worshiping. I'm singing.

I play that worship music loud and I sing. I was doing it yesterday. And, you know, I was practicing my. my golf pitching because I didn't play golf for so many months. And then we went and played the other day, and it was a complete disaster. Make your point with your two verses, Jason. Well, this is a good story. And so I'm out practicing.

Well, while I'm, I said, you know what, I got to have a happy thought because you get the yips in your mind when you haven't done something and I'm shanking the golf shot. So I just started singing worship songs as loud as I could to take my mind off this stress I was having, you know. And it started working. And so I was in between the two. I never heard of worship being an answer to a bad short game. You're going to see it, baby. So look, so I was distracted because a growling bulldog attacked me, which was my neighbors. And then when I looked up, well, it was, you know, in between me and Willie is his adopted daughter, Rebecca and her husband.

and they had their parents over his, Rebecca's husband's parents. They were all like looking at me, dumbfounded, trying to figure out where this sound, because to me it's singing, it sounds beautiful. To them it was a cry of pain, a need for help. It was a distress call. I thought you'd like that story, Phil, but I don't guess you did. So in Hebrews 13, I want to read this.

Verse 11, the high priest carries the blood of animals into the most holy place as a sin offering, which was how they worship God without Jesus. They had a system. They had a place. They had a place that was the Holy of Holies and the priests had to come in there. And they went into these places

where everything was done in reverence and in order in God's way. They're still doing it worldwide a lot like that. They're still doing it. I know. Post Jesus. But anyway, let me read what it says. And verse 12 says,

And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate, which goes into what we're talking about in John for, things would be different with Jesus. It was no longer, we're going, not only are we going outside the building, we're going outside the city. And it says, so he suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood, let us then go to him outside the camp, outside the building, outside the camp, outside the city. Where in the world.

Ain't there where you are? In the world. In any group of people, which specifically because the Hebrew letter was written primarily to Jews, but, I mean, so the Hebrew writer saying there at the end of it, look, it's bigger than just us. Oh, yeah. And remember Jesus told the woman in John 4, he said, and by the way, they had a hard time with that.

But they did. And he told her, he was real specific. He told the woman, he said it's for the Jews first, which it was. That's the people of God. They had first bite at the apple. But then next was everybody else, Samaritans, Gentiles, it just goes out. Even Samaritans like you, girl. That's exactly right.

She was stunned, Al. She was because she had never, I mean, she was, again, shocked Eve and talked to her, but then it went beyond that, which is powerful. But even to go with what Phil said about, he named all the things, and there's more than that. There's, you know, a wall, a built where God's building, where God's temple, where God's body. You know, in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 and verse 12, he was trying to get them to see that concept, the same thing, the woman at the well. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts, and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.

And then he says, for we were all baptized by one spirit, because he said we worship in spirit and in truth, into one body, whether Jews or Greeks. We're going to worship together in the spirit, and it's not going to be based on your culture, where you're from, or what mountain you're on. Slave nor free. It doesn't matter what class of people you are. And I love this. And we were all given the one spirit to drink. We all drink the same spirit, whether you're male or female, whether you're rich or poor, whether you're a Jew or Greek. He's the glue that holds us together.

So, and then it says, now the body is not made up a one part, but of many. And then he goes on to give this illustration that some of us look different. Some of us are a foot. Some of us are a nose. But we all come together in Jesus through the Holy Spirit to form this one machine that is not localized to a place. Right. That was the point he was introducing, which I'm sure to her, was like the wildest thing you could ever imagine. America should take something like a pandemic when they say stay at home and do the best you can.

And we're in contact with all brothers and sisters. Look, there was a gigantic meal that went up there from way down here. Miss Kay was at the helm on how you're going to get the homeless brothers and sisters, how are we going to get some food to them? Because they followed on some pretty hard times up there. You know what I'm saying? Yep. So we had the food, food going their way as fine as you've ever seen, ham and green beans, you know.

I mean, well, we gave them a feast, and that was all given to all the ones that were needy. So we made sure they were being taken care of among the body. We're way down there in the woods. They way up there in town. But you said, the way they were talking each other on the phone and Ms. Kay is saying, well, he's on his way and he has all the food. so he'll be up there in about 15 minutes. Terry's going to be out there in the parking lot. He's going to stay away about 20 yards from y'all and lead singing in the parking lot.

So they were all, had it all worked out. So you say, did you miss a beat when the pandemic come along and we could no longer get crowded up together? We didn't miss a beat. I didn't realize that mom was, let's take a quick break. So I didn't realize that mom, we talked about drive up church, which is a lot of stuff going on around the country. Mom had walk-up. She was coordinating the walk-up church. yesterday at university.

Well, you know, where I use, you know, a lot of what I teach about the role of women, and which I'm sure we'll get into it as the weeks unfold in the podcast. Because I think a lot of that today in religion, they take a verse like in First Corinthians where it says, you know, a woman shouldn't have authority over a man. She's not allowed to teach. And people make these rules, you know, over that one text. but I think here the reason we're reading in First Grandtons and even seeing like we're talking about our mom, you're just talking about that like no big deal. Where she's doing things now, which is the same church work, but if she did that in a church building, a lot of people say, well, wait a minute, I'm not sure she can do that.

She's going to be doing that. You know, and so now look. That is correct. And so here's my point. It's the same kind of this camp mentality where people try to take a situation that happened. That verse is in the Bible about a woman's role. So it means something. But they'll take something and they'll try to make rules in certain areas, a church building, a mountain, which don't apply outside of it, which seems to the world they're looking saying, well, that's weird.

You know, what's your problem with women? And so that's why I brought up the point last time we talked about John Ford, which is a couple podcasts ago, that Jesus had a habit. of picking women in his ministry. I mean, he did it a lot and really highlighting it. Even in front of his disciples, you remember where the woman cried and washed his feet with her hair, you know, and while the disciples, they were like, p. Luce. What on with this woman?

You know what I mean? I mean, we could have took that and sold, you know, she had the perfume. And he's like, hey, when the gospels preach, because she gets it, not only will it be. preach, but her story will be preached. I mean, not only did he take up for he rebuked them. Well, look, even in this text, we hadn't read it, Jace, but in verse 27, the disciples return, because they were going to town to get some food when they came back, they were surprised to find him talking with a woman. So first of all, that she was a woman, but then second of she was a Samaritan woman, but I love it, says, but no one asked, what do you want or why are you

talking with her? to me it was like a dog you know a dog tries to get in your stuff and you just hit that snout and say no and you're trying to tell them their snout had been snapped enough times where they wanted to say something because they knew this wasn't kosher

but nobody opened their mouth you know because they were going to get rebuked if you stopped your if they somebody let me put it this way let's turn around the other way no government edict no government rule or regulation will stop people like your mother from reaching out

to the women and the poor soul she reaches out to, she's not going to stop doing that. See, we had a situation came up where the reason I started studying this because I taught a class a couple years ago on First Corinthians. And look, First Corinthians and second, I mean, the church there had a lot of problems. You know, somebody sent a question on the email that I think you had down to get to you one day about saying,

what was the one about the not covering your head? And I've been rebuked several times. You know, if you had a hat on, you can't wear a hat in a building. And they're using that text, not just when you pray, but you can't have a hat on when you walk in the building. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Well, I know. But it means something to people.

They're not being ridiculous in their mind. They really believe you're violating a passage. are in danger from the fires of the hall. It's like somebody coming along, Jason, saying, well, if your wife and y'all's mother is making sure food is being distributed to the widows and the orphans and the homeless, if that's what she's doing, does that, is she holding up authority over you as her husband? Is that she exercised an authority over you, Phil?

Like that's a threat to my authority? Yeah. With the woman is helping the homeless and the poor and the widest. Well, that's what I was going to say. They asked Willie's daughter, Sadie, who's awesome. I mean, I'll have to admit, I think she's the best Robertson preacher. There he is out of the Roberts. A woman proclaimer.

Oh, she's awesome. And so they wanted her to share her ministry or whatever at her church. Well, somebody said, well, I'm not sure she can do that because she's a woman, you know. And so I don't know from that moment on. thought something about this doesn't seem right. And that theology, because we all, she does an awesome ministry, you know. How many daughters did Philip have? He had four.

Look, so I started studying this, and I realized people, you know, they get emotional about this subject because they're like, well, it's a clear passage. It means something. So what's funny is the other pastors at our church, you know, I said, I think I've come up with something I'd like to share with. So the one that called me, who will remain nameless, well, I could tell, because he had had every argument about this subject under the sun. Well, he wouldn't let me talk.

He was giving me all his arguments. And I said, well, I thought you wanted to hear what I got to say. And he's like, oh, that's not what you're going to say? I'm like, well, you haven't let me say what I'm going to. You keep giving me all these arguments. So here's what's funny about this. So my presentation to him lasted in an hour. I was like, here's what I think.

So I go through the presentation. Well, the next thing I know is, what is that, four or five days later, he invites me, I give that presentation to all the leaders. Because he went from thinking one way about what I was going to say to, oh, I like this. This is good. Come sharing this with everybody. And so what it is basically is that you have the situation in Corinthians, which a lot of the problems, if you read both letters, they were having a gender, what you say, a gender, kind of like what we have in our sense.

That's exactly what they were having. Yeah, they were having males dressing up like females and females dressing up like males because their background, 1st, Gryndt 6, was a lot of this prostitution. and, you know, I forgot the exact terms there, but you get the idea of it's like kind of male prostitutes and homosexual offenders. You get a Bourbon Street type because we've all, you know, we live in Louisiana. Carruth was a rough town. It was rough. Well, it was a typical port town.

No rougher than ours, by the way. And so when you read that in light of reading that about the hair covered and, well, they had an issue just trying to figure out from looking at people who they, the men were and who the women were. That's when you run under trouble. And so I took things back to Matthew 19, you know, where Jesus defines marriage. And he says this phrase over and over. It's over and over in the Bible.

God made them male and female. And the next phrase is where I zero in on. And for this reason that we, you don't mess with that. You have a male and you have a female. And for that reason, marriage. happens and the two become one. And what's no, you know, what was two is now one. And so when you fast forward to what my view is on the role of women, God institutes this system where he has pastors and elders who kind of oversee the church. Well, what is that? He goes through the

qualifications to being a pastor and elder, and guess what they are? Their husbands are but one why. Well, what is that? That's a, that's two people who are now one. And so, yes, they're different because they're female or male. But in that, we now have a unit. And so I'm like, well, here we are in Corinth where we've already had the male, female identity in question. We have that problem. Now we have women who are just firing off in their assemblies, not a, because I'm like, well, where are the elder teams telling this woman, hey, this is not what we're doing here? And so you remember the rebuke on it was she needs to go ask her own husband at home. And so that was my whole issue with that.

You know, if someone who has a church where they have elder teams, which are husbands and females, that's why y'all know me. I feel like when the elders meet, the men, their wife should be there also. Well, trust me, they're a part of it. I mean. Well, right. But you see where I'm going with this. Oh, yeah.

I'm like women and men who have figured out as a married couple to be leaders of the church, they understand their roles. It's the same in the church as it is at their home. We have our different roles, but together that meshes and it becomes one unit for Jesus. And so my wife and I do the same thing. We are in, you know, worship leading together. Well, look, she sings. I can't sing.

I mean, I can make a sound. A joyful noise. But as leaders, you say, well, how do y'all function? Well, we're together. And when we get up and teach our class, you know, we do it together. There's no authority issue whatsoever. I'm the head of my household, and she'll gladly, you know, surrender to that. But that doesn't mean that while we're standing in front of an audience, well, she can't speak as a submissive woman

to her husband on a subject that we're discussing, you say, within the context. Let's take a quick break. So obviously I've opened up a can of worms because a lot of people say, well, what exactly and look, I'm fine with people feeling uncomfortable, you know, about that context. But what I'm getting at is when you look at the big picture on how God valued women through Jesus' ministry, you see that there's a value. When you read the text in First Corinthians and those others, that we're neither male or female in Christ. But we have a role in marriage as the husband leading his wife, the wife submitting to her husband.

I think that function works in the eldership and the pastor. I think it's their decision as husband and wife teams, male and female, to make determinations at a church on what institutes an abuse of authority. or not. So that's where I'm going. So if you take this matter in Corinth, I think they had a situation where women, there was a gender problem already at the, you know, in the fundamentals.

But I think they were not submitting to anyone. They were just getting together and screaming, hollering, using the gifts that had been given to them, you know, took that to another level. And so I think where were the elders? I think as husband and wife teams, is their responsibility to deem those case by case and whether someone is not surrendering first of all to God and then surrendering to these husband-wife teams. So that's where I'm going with that in the future. You got to remember that when you talk about the early church, you're talking about

everybody are new Christians, you know. It's not like they've been around for a long time. That's right. So it was taking a while to mature people to the the point of understanding what you're talking about, Jace, which is why the early church had so many problems, which is why Paul had to write these letters to address them, because everybody's written for our learning. They are. And so, you know, over time, we've learned some things. And I guess we're getting in wrap-up mode, but I'll say this about what we've been

talking about. It was interesting because we've kind of talked about a lot today in terms of the American church model versus how we go forward and all of it's springing out of this conversation. From my perspective, one of the things that really probably has not. helped us advance this thought, dad, you were talking about, about going to church, have been guys like me who are all across our culture who are so used to going in and having church. I mean, you know, you have that group of people.

So a lot of times. They even sit in the same spot every time. And we become our own worst enemy. You know, I'm driving in. So my experience about doing Easter Sunday was that we're still getting together to beam something out, you know, for folks to get some instruction, but there's nobody there. And so I even said when we were filming it, it feels weird because it's like being in the Super Bowl, because, you know, Easter is like the pastor's Super Bowl. I mean, big crowds. We love it. We feast on it.

Oh, yeah. And so here I am talking to the camera, me and one other guy talking to the camera, and there's nobody looking back at me. There's a couple of people out there, you know, camera guys. And so it feels strange from my perspective. I'm driving in and I'm praying about what I'm going to be talking about and I'm looking and nobody's stirring around. I mean, our whole community is just quiet, except for one place, the donut place had about 10 cars. I thought, well, I guess donuts Trump panted. By the way, out, and that is when during periods like this, that's when you'll really know who the kingdom of God is and who it's not. So I'll say that to say as a pastor, as with a pastor's mindset, I think there's things all of us can learn. I know a lot of

masters watch our podcast and listen because this is, I mean, we're in this whole thing of the pandemic. We have to realize that we're still doing what God calls us to do just because we don't have a group of people every Sunday we're with. So you got to roll with that. Yeah, I think Jesus, though, was introducing to her about don't get hung up on the place because the spirit's going to be poured out. And I think we'll get to the truth section next. But when he says, I am the truth. and a lot of what he did made people, like, who are religious people, very uncomfortable. Which I'm okay with that. I actually like that.

But here's my, and my point is, because I know people are going to say, good grief, what does Jay Sam about the role of women? Well, here's what I'm saying. Let me just give you one illustration to say what I'm saying. If you're at a church bill, you know, we do the Lord's Supper. Well, some people would deem it an abuse of authority if the women were passing the trays, which I think's utterly ridiculous. However, but those same people, now that the pandemic and the coronavirus,

they would think nothing about it if you're at your house and your wife went over there and got you the tray or whatever. How are you going to take the Lord's up or whatever and hand it to you? It never entered their mind. My point is you don't be, you don't realize you make doctrines based on a place. and a rule that you might be mistaken about, especially when it has nothing to do with the heart or Jesus, and it devalues people somehow and another.

If you're violating one of those rules, you've got to take a step back and say, well, wait a minute here. I never have an issue on what particular gender someone is if they're either praying or handing me something to eat. I never make an issue. of those two things. Well, there you got.

Who's that praying, like a good night. I would tell you something else. I don't have a problem when they're sharing Jesus. What's funny to me? Me either. First Corinthians,

one, where all this controversy came from, well, in Second Corinthians, where it talks about we're ambassadors and therefore we, you know, though God were making

his appeal to us. I've read that before and said, was that only the men? And they're like, well, no, that was the only men. There's an old saying,

Jace, not too old, because I was the one who dreamed it up. The saying is, if you have to tell your woman that you are the head of the house, you're not. That is correct. Submit to me, woman. We got to roll.

We'll talk more about this in the future for sure. We'll have to take a look at it. We'll let you give your full presentation days in the future. Yeah. So we're so glad you guys were with us today. You can subscribe on iTunes or Spotify or YouTube or Facebook. and be sure and rate us on iTunes so that other people can know about the podcast.