Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 831 | Jase Tackles Where You Go When You Die & What to Do When Your Spouse Cheats

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

Phil, Jase, and the guys explore the mysteries of life after death and how the second coming will change even that. Jase gives a breakdown of what he believes existence is like immediately following death, and the guys use biblical clues to guess where Jesus was during the three days between his death and resurrection. Plus, the downstream benefits of extreme forgiveness.  In this episode: Luke 23, verses 32-56; Psalm 22; Acts 2, verses 24-31; Genesis 3, verse 24; John 19, verses 23-24; Exodus 26, verses 30-35 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashame. We, you know, we record two podcasts when we record. So literally we just finished the last recording. It's a day for you guys listening apart. But we're really intense into this moment. So we're just going to launch right in back into our Bible study. And the last podcast, we left off with now Jesus heading towards the cross.

and things begin to happen as he gets there. And again, as I mentioned earlier, they all have a significance to prophecy and scripture. And one of the things I wanted to mention before we get into the next verse in Luke is from the book of John in John 19, 23, 24, whenever John's describing it, he mentions that even the clothes, like, so Jesus had this, the only thing he had in his possession was this, cloak, you know, that he has. And so they take that off the robe.

And so they didn't tear it and they cast lots for it. So they're just, they're basically gambling for his cloak. So one person gets it because if they tear it into pieces, it's not worth anything. As it is, it's worth something if one person gets it. But what's interesting about that in John's account is he quotes from Psalm 22. And this is a Davidic Psalm. David wrote this Psalm in 2218 says, They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.

So John is the only one that mentions this prophecy, but that's literally happening. Well, when you look back at Psalm 22, there are at least five different instances of prophecy in this one Psalm. In verse one, it says, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Which we're going to talk about a little bit later. That's one of the things he said from the cross. You look down in verse 7, it said, all who see me mock me, they hurl insults, and they shake their heads,

which of course is exactly what happens to Jesus on the cross. Another one in verse 14, he said, I am poured out like water. And so later when he says, I thirst, there's significance to that. And then, of course, the one I'd said about dividing the clothing. So there are all these different prophecies that come about from David. And while that may not be a big deal to us, you know, in the future, in the moment of when they were understanding this, these things they had studied. They had heard. Everybody knew the words of David.

Every good Jew and Jewish leader had read Psalms and sang Psalms. They've been doing this for hundreds and hundreds of years. So to Dad's point in the last podcast, all these things are being fulfilled. And even something little like that, like his clothing and them casting, Lott's was pointed to hundreds and hundreds of years earlier by David, and this is now being fulfilled in Christ. So I just, that was a little thing from the book of John, but it's a big thing in terms of its implication.

So I want to mention that as we launch into it and get back into verse 32 of Luke 23, because Luke is going to have three different things that Jesus says from the cross. He says seven things total. three of them are in Luke, three of them are in the book of John exclusively. And then there's one in Matthew and Mark, which is, and I already read it, but why have you forsaken me? So let's begin, Jay's with the, in verse 32, with the two thieves who were there. Because two other men, both criminals, were also let out to be executed. And we know one was on one side and one was on the other.

And when Jesus gets there, he's going to say a couple of things. things. The first thing he's going to address in verse 34 is he says, and this is just to the people, I'm assuming who are crucified him, he says, Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing. And so I thought interesting, the first thing he says, as he's nailed to a cross, is he offers this sort of, what would you call it? Just this, this forgiveness to these people who are actually executed. In other words, he recognizes. recognizes in the moment, they're just taking orders. And, I mean, there's an absolution there, which is pretty incredible.

And it really has a lot of implication because, you know, there's a lot of people believe you don't have to forgive people unless they ask you for it. But that's not what these guys had just nailed him to a cross. And yet he says, don't hold this against them because this is something that had to happen. So I just found that fascinating. That was the first thing he said when he was put on. to the cross. Well, and it just shows this character.

I mean, forgiveness is a gift. I mean, there's nothing you can do. We've all had situations where you're trying to get somebody to forgive you. But there's nothing you can do

to make that happen. It's just a gift offered by the one who's been sent against. And it's a very powerful thought, which even goes back to when you said, you know,

the Psalm 22, quote, how the Jews were familiar with that. And you said it may not mean much to us. But in a way, it really does just to go back to Zach's point about Jesus, not only is dying for the nation of Israel, not only is he dying for the people who are actually committing the literal act of crucifixion. He's offering grace and forgiveness in the spirit of that, even though. They don't want to have anything to do with it. When you read that Psalm 22 and there's graphic statements like in verse 17 where it says,

I can count all my bones, people stare and gloat over me. You know, that's the verse before. It says they divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing. You know, the verse 14 that you read, I am poured out like water, but the next statement says, and all my bones are out of joint, my heart has turned to wax. It has melted away within me. Well, when you start picturing Jesus on a cross, the ramifications of how expensive it was for him,

for us to be saved, it does mean, it transcends, yes, the plan, you know, that he's restored Israel. That's God. They've stepped up against them. Yeah. And I have a little bitty part in this, you know, because we all are sinful. And, you know, I just remember as a teenager, one of the most graphic moments of my life is when they had a guest speaker who was a doctor, which Luke, you know, is, is a doctor too and has provided insight as we're reading.

And they gave a, he kind of gave a medical relay of what happened. on the cross using the history of using crosses and the flogging and the whips and he basically just went through what he went through which was a medical analysis of what I just read in Psalm 22 and let me tell you I was broken because I realized you know it's one thing to look at this as a book and history and God's scheme of redemption but it's another thing to look at your own life and realize, you know, Jesus did this for me. And so I think that that power happens in our world where, yes, Jesus came to die for everyone and even his attitude of humility against the ones who are torturing him. But there's also this individual

moment that we all have to come to grips with that, is this is for me. So there's there's really a power in that. Yeah, that's a really good point because I think that where this gets, well, when you get it out of the kind of just the personal nature of what you're talking about and kind of more the academic side of this, it gets to be highly controversial, even some of the stuff we're saying, because typically people are going to fall on one or two ends of the spectrum.

They're going to hit, it's all the kingdom, and they're going to diminish that personal aspect. I'm almost like, oh, yeah, I mean, they're going to diminish that, or they're going to hone in so much on the individual that they're going to miss the bigger picture that's happening here. And the truth is that it's both and. I mean, it is both an individual payment, but it's also something that God's doing collectively for his kingdom. And when you were talking about that doctor coming to speak, I was in a similar, I had a similar encounter, just understanding the, Roman crucifixion. There's a guy that was an expert in Roman crucifixions and had studied it when I was in college

and had given a talk on it. And he just went through the brutality of it. And I mean, there was not a dry eye in the house. Even people who weren't believers in Christ were weeping because this was a reality. And so like when you think about an innocent man like going to such extremes and that type of suffering, that alone is heart-wrenching. What makes this even more insane is that we're not talking about just an innocent man. We are talking about God incarnate, like yielding himself, submitting himself to the most horrible humiliation, physical pain, spiritual isolation, emotional isolation, rejection.

I mean, it's like the, no pun intended, or pun intended. It's the crux of everything that we fear as humans. The God man took that on. And it's no wonder why nobody understood it until it was rebuilt by the Spirit. Who, I mean, who could have understood this? Who could have understood Psalms 22 and read this and thought that he was talking about the son of God? Actually, like, they're talking about God himself, like doing this. I mean, it would have been just, it would have been blasphemous.

It's what they accuse Jesus of. And so I just think that it goes back to what you were saying earlier in a previous podcast, Jace, about how, man, what Jesus is doing here, not just taking a lesser role. This isn't like some fake humility where this is not like, okay, I'll sit in the backseat guys to prove that I'm the most spiritual, you know, in the family. That's not what this is. I mean, this is a emptying of self. This is Philippians too. This is a emptying of self taking on the nature of a servant, being humble in a way that we can't even really comprehend it. Yeah.

And let me mention something that was very good at a practical level, how this can apply to that both and way you just described that. So because this speaks to where we all are because we're challenged as individuals to forgive people that sin against us, that hurt us. And I can't tell you because Lisa and I've written books and she and I both have been very open about our lives. I mean, she was unfaithful to me and to her marriage. And I've had a lot of people say, how could you possibly forgive her? Many of our listeners, you know, go through something similar. And they're like, how do we get past this? And look, I lived it.

It's hard. But Jesus gives you some insight into that, into that both end, because you got to understand the evil one is at work. And when he works in someone's life, and especially when he works in someone's life that you're in love with, and they fall prey to his leading and then by their own desires in James I give into temptation. And it hurts you. It hurt God first. Yeah. But you have the capacity to forgive because of what he has done for us. That's why when those pastoral say you can forgive because God is forgiving you, Jesus looks at this big picture moment, the individual and the.

large moment of saying that we have the capacity to forgive because good can triumph over evil. And so when you live through that in your own personal walk, which I have, you understand you have a much larger capacity to forgive than you ever thought you did. And so when you want to just pitch in the town and say, no, this is just too big. It's just too bad. It's just too awful. Think back to this moment of the people that were actually nailing Jesus to the cross. And he had the capacity to look and say, I can forgive them for these.

this. Therefore, anybody going forward, anytime you're hurt, betrayed, whether it's something mental, physical, or whatever, you have that capacity because of your walk with Jesus. And so that's just another practical thing that helps me live every single day. And that's very, very practical. And I would add to that when when you embody the kingdom in that way, not only does God heal you, but everything with God is always an overflow. So God healed you and Lisa, I'm a, like, I've witnessed that. But, But when I think about you and Lisa now, I don't think about what God healed you from. I look at it.

If anybody comes to me and says, man, our marriage is in trouble. The first people that I'm thinking about to is you and Lisa. And I'm thinking about all the marriages, people that have been on the verge of divorce, that out of your pain and healing that God has used you to outflow that ministry. I'm like, man, there's a, there is a more people than we can count. and the downline of your ministry and your faithfulness to Christ to forgive us. He forgave, man, that's way bigger than just your healing. I mean, there's a lot of other people that have participated in the healing power of Christ because of your submission. So I think that you always got to think bigger because this whole picture here is it's bigger.

It's always bigger than we think. Let's take our first break. No, and I think that's why he starts there. I think it needs to be said that Luke recorded. in Luke 24, the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women, women, took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. They thought he was dead. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find

the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes gleam like lightning stood beside them. In their fright, the women bowed down with their faces. to the ground, but the men said to him, why do you look for the living among the dead? He's not here.

He's risen. Remember how he told you while he was still with you in Galilee, the son of man must be delivering to the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again? Then they remembered his words. When they

came back from the tomb, they told all these thanks to the 11th and to all the others. It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told them this to the, who told the apostles. But they did not believe the women. These guys, they didn't believe them, because their words seemed to be to them like nonsense. Peter, however, got up and ran to the tomb, bending over, he saw the strips of linen lying by themselves.

I mean, the very event, his being raped, he went away, Peter did, wondering to himself what had happened. So this just didn't come easy for anyone. Yeah. No, it did. But I think the women got it, but you say, what do the men do?

They're all where I say, that's a bunch of nonsense. Where are you talking about? I mean, they're still doubting all the way down to the resurrection. which is the only thing that we've got. Well, just because in the Jewish mindset, God is not going to become a man and you can't come back from the dead as a human.

I mean, they believed in the resurrection to an extent, but at the end where everyone was raised. But for one guy to be resurrected, that was not even a possibility. But it's interesting, you said that. It's a problem. thing, Jay, is for anybody, if you think about it. I think what stands out to me after this happens and the people involved here,

I want to get y'all's thoughts on this. And I got some of this from Tim Keller, and I kind of made it my own, I guess. But basically, when you read through Luke, you get this idea that Jesus is championing the outcast and the excluded. and those who are in lesser conditions, the poor, the injustice, the racial outsiders. And so here you get a picture of how God's grace is even better than what you might have thought. Because when you get to the end, and I'll give you this little outline that he had, which I thought was fantastic, he said, when you look at the two thieves, well, one of the ones. of them recognized Jesus as who he claimed to be. Well, and he, he put under this head, and he was a moral

outsider because thieves were not qualified for capital punishment. I looked this up and checked him out, and it was true. So evidently, these were not only thieves, but they stole things and killed people to do it, and so they hung them up on a cross. But here, you see in verse 41 and 42 one of the thieves the first one rebukes and insults

Christ in verse 39 and he says aren't you the Christ save yourself and us but the other the world is taking his side many people in the world well right and I'll get to that in a second but this second thief said the other criminal rebuked him don't you fear

God he said since you were under the same sentence, we are punished justly for we are getting what our deeds deserve, but this man has done nothing wrong. Then he said, Jesus, now watch what's the statement, he says, remember me when you come into your kingdom. He had figured it out. And Jesus answered, I tell you the truth, today you'll be with me in paradise. So which this seems to fit the narrative that Jesus has been going through Luke.

This is a moral outsider. Well, then in verse 47, you see another person rise up, which is a centurion, which what is he? Well, he's a racial outsider. Seeing what had happened, praised God, and said, surely this was the son of God, which is what, you know, and Luke says a righteous man, but one of the other accounts is he's the son of God. Isn't that something that a Gentile is recognizing Jesus as the son of God? Well, then you have the women that you brought up, rightfully so.

In verse 55, it says the women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. they were preparing the spices. Well, they were social outsiders because back in their day, women had no pull, which is why they didn't believe them, which is another reason why I believe this to be true, because if you were making it up, why would you pick a group of people, women, who had no validity in their testimony? So, but before you think it ends there, you then have two insiders that,

that recognized The road to Ameth Well, I'm backing up to Joseph of Aramathias in verse 50. And Nicodemus? Yeah, and which account brings up Nicodemus? John.

Yeah, John's 1939. He's accompanied by Nicodemus. And this is why I said the whole narrative of Luke shows you that these people are downtrodden who have suffered, who have had injustice happen. their heart is in a better place to actually recognize what Jesus is offering.

But God's grace transcends all of that in that you now have a guy who's rich, Joseph, from Arimathea, and that's in Matthew 2757. He's accompanied by Nicodemus, John 1939. He comes, and it says he was a good and upright man who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea, and he was, look, here's this statement again, was waiting for the kingdom of God.

Going to pilot, he asked for Jesus' body. Then he took it down, wrapped it in a linen cloth, and placed it in a tomb, cut in the rock, one in which no one have been laid. So I'm saying they recognized Jesus as king. You have a thief on one side, and you have a prominent man accompanied by a member of the Jewish ruling council who Jesus had had the conversation with in John 3. And you remember what he told him, you need to be born again. And what did he tell him?

You won't be able to see the kingdom unless that happens. They figured it out. They figured it out and look at it and go back to the. first one you said, because I mean, we kind of skipped over this, but we said from the beginning of this kind of our, what we're our position is, is the kingdom of God is not out there one day. It's here and it's now. And listen to this when the thief on the cross, when he says this, he says, remember, Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

So whenever you go into your kingdom, don't forget about me. Remember me when the time is when you go into the place, your kingdom, remember me. And here's Jesus' response. And to him, he said, truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise. I don't know any other, how much more proof you got to see that, I mean, the kingdom. This is a very imminent kingdom when Jesus is talking about here. This is not something that we're way, way out. He says, remember me when you go into your kingdom.

Jesus, okay, today. That's going to happen today. Today you will be with me in paradise. And I think that that is a key point to think about. Even you mentioned the Roman centurion who said, surely this is a son of God. I was trying to look this up because I can't remember where I read this, but I read someone said,

and I'll go back and try to find it and bring it up on another podcast. But I believe that that phrase, because he wasn't speaking as someone that was Jewish, but rather someone that was from the Roman empire, that phrase itself was a phrase of how you would, something you would call Caesar, something you would call an emperor of Rome, something that you would call, this was not, this was, this was a kingly title. So as he's seeing Jesus on the cross, what he's saying is, surely this is the king, surely he is

the Caesar, he is the emperor. So again, it's that king language that's being used here. And I never thought about the part about Joseph of Hermethea. saying he was waiting on the kingdom too. I mean, so you see that language. I mean, it's, it is all throughout this text here. And he was basically saying he's waiting and now it's here. Let's take another break. Now, you make a great point. That when someone says when and then the guy answers with today, I mean, it's hard not to link those two together. Very difficult. That obviously something major is about to happen. And before we leave this

thought, I do want to say, you know, we got the new mailbag segment. So, There were four letters that showed up at the church to each four of us. And they were all from Michelle from Broken Arrow. And so I opened mine, but it was the same letter to all four of us. And she asked, the reason I waited to do her mailbag with this is because I wanted to mention this in this context. Her question was, where did Jesus' spirit go for those three days? Now, we've talked about this before in the podcast, but I think since we're right here where he said today. in Paradise.

This is obviously one of the things that we see about that question that happens. And Michelle wanted to know because she said, I've really been thinking about this. Now, what she said in her letter was, I know he went into hell. And I don't know that he did, but that comes from the idea that we've read before we studied Peter, 1st Peter 318, about the spirits held in prison.

You know, it talks about in that context. Also, Ephesians 4, 7, which talks about he has descended, into the earthly realms and ascended into heaven. Those are the only two things I could really find where this concept comes from about where Jesus went. But I wanted to bring this up because... One other verse that comes from.

Now, we're definitely taking a side track here. I've been saving it, Jays, because I knew we had to at least address the Michelle's answer. I just want to thank you for the warning now in advance. We're pausing. You know, our belief is that, you know, when we're, we die, our spirit does go to heaven, John 14, you know. Yeah. And it's not awaiting more like a sleeping, I would say.

Yeah, until the resurrection, and you get into 1st Corinthians 15. Flesh and blood cannot, you know, inherit the kingdom, but you, you know, you'll be changed, not exchange. And you're raised, your body goes from perishable to imperishable. when Jesus comes back. Now, we're fast forwarding now, but I will give you another text that people are curious about and where this question comes from. In Philippians 2,

let's see, where is that at? Yeah, so Philippians 2, which most scholars agree, this is kind of a poem, but in it there's a statement that's very profound that ties in with what Michelle is talking about. So if I just read it so we get the whole thing, and we're familiar with it, but there's one little phrase in here that you go,

hmm, what does that mean? Verse 5 says your attitude should be the same as Christ Jesus. He didn't consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, becoming human, being made in human likeness, being found in appearance as man, he humbled himself, he became obedient to death, even death on a cross. therefore God exalted him to the highest place, gave him the name that is above every name. So we're all on the same page here.

But then this next verse says that at the name of Jesus, every knee should bow. And it says, in heaven and on earth and under the earth. So you're like, that's where they kind of get that from, because most people say, well, that must be held. in some capacity or those who are actually under the ground on earth. And I'm not telling you what I think. I'm just saying this is where that same concept comes up. Because he brought heaven and earth together. And you get back into the temple aspect of this,

which what is a temple where heaven and earth meet? And so here Jesus is bringing people together all of those. on heaven and earth has been given to me. Even in Luke 15, because we didn't bring this up when we were in Luke 15, but when I think this is a powerful point, when Jesus was being insulted or questioned because he was eating with tax collectors and sinners, he then tells three stories of things lost on earth being found. But what he does, which is amazing, is he says, there'll be.

rejoicing on earth and in heaven. You know, there's rejoicing in heaven and earth. So when you kind of look at the big picture, I know this is getting deep. But when people come to Christ, which is why he told the three stories, that's why I'm eating in the tax collectors and sinners. I'm reconciling human beings back to God. There's this merging of celebration of heaven and earth. in all three of those pictures.

I don't know if you've ever thought about that. I think it's very powerful, and I think that's what he's doing here. But the question comes then, where did Jesus go? Back to the question, when his spirit, what happened?

I'm not real sure. I mean, is the short answer? I think that's the answer, yeah. I mean, and that's the reason I brought it up that she asked it, but is that we don't. know, obviously. There is some conjecture that there's a possibility that he would have visited somewhere else.

He says to the thief, today you will be with me. And then also he says a little bit later, which we'll get to in the next statement, into your father, into your hands, I commit my spirit. That doesn't mean that he may not have been dispatched him someplace. But so my short answer is like yours. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, there's, you know, Bill Smith, one of our mentors would teach that there.

There is a holding place, so to speak, of tormenties and paradise. And, yeah, I don't know if I, I think there may be that we may be aware. Like my mom, you know, passed away a few years ago. I think she's aware and has, like, consciousness about her. And, you know, primarily because of, well, the amount of transfiguration, you do see conversation with people who have, who are in the spirit realm now. And then you also have Hebrews 12 that says, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, so there's this idea that we're being looked at and people are witnessing what is the cloud above us that's witnessing it. I think one of the interesting things that was powerful for me to understand, though, is that the body and the spirit as humans are never meant to live apart forever.

So whatever that separation is now, it's temporary. And there will be a reunification of the spirit with body. Now, Jesus had a bodily resurrection. So, I mean, too. So then I think, where is he at now? I think some of that stuff gets beyond us. But. Well, Zach, even Elijah and Moses, who were at the transfiguration,

I don't think this is coincidental. Elijah never died. He just, Oh, good point. He just went up. And then Moses, there was a huge dispute that's mentioned three times, one in Jews. Over the body of Moses. Because it says God buried him.

Great point. So, you know, why is that? That's good. So they show up. I think they participated in some sort of resurrection or they wouldn't have been talking on a mountain thousand years after they died with Jesus. So, you know, the imperishable body is also has the ability to walk through walls. And 1 John 3 says, we're going to be like his body.

Because Jesus, he was eating fish, but he was also going through walls. He was levitating without the use of any kind of aid. So that body's got some bells and whistles. But there was a guy summoned. Who was the story that the median? Yeah, it was Samuel. King Saul summoned Samuel

who had already passed on to the resurrection. He brought him back through a medium. Well, and he was aware of current events, which I thought was fascinating. Yeah, I did too.

And that's another, was he asleep and then he was awakened for the moment because he was not happy about being brought back, by the way. He said,

why have you disturbed me? That was his first thing. And then by the way, the news he gave to Saul, not good. because he told me he died the next day, which he did. Hang on, let's take another break. Well, I have one more thing I want to bring up.

I didn't know you was going to do a drive. Bring the mailbag on. Do a drive-bye on us. Yeah, give us 24 hours notice next time now. We may have a minute. I actually gave you 72 hours because this is in my notes. Y'all are going to start reading my notes. But I do, I want to bring up another point.

And because I think to answer Michelle's question, where I think we've done not a good job in our teaching, is there does seem to be a very unique correlation between our sins and physical death. Now, you say, because most of the time we separate that, because we're like, well, what if I never sinned, would I still die? And the obvious answer is, well, yes, because you're on an earth where and your body is made in such a way that even if you never sin, you're going to physically die. Now, the short answer on why that is is when the garden, when the sin happened, there was a separation. And by that separation, physical death happened because a little obscure verse says, in Genesis, you can look it up. they will no longer be able to continue to eat from the tree of life and live forever. So there was a tree of life there that they were eating. It might have just looked like fruit,

but it was keeping them from dying. So because- From any decay. Yeah. I want to read you something that this unique relationship seems to have. This is 1st Corinthians 15. 17 and what what's what's the we never talk about this verse but al since you brought it up i'm gonna i'm gonna read it look look what it says it says and if christ has not been raised

so we're talking about the resurrection right yep your faith is futile now look at this next phrase you're still in your sins hmm Well, now, what does that mean? And that's my point. There's a unique relationship to that. And there's a reason Jesus died for our sins. You know, if you fast forward to go through 1st Corinthians 15, just trying to figure out what exactly that means.

Because then verse 18, we know what that says. Then those who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. Well, we got that because he was raised. But it says, you're still in your sins. Well, then in verse 55, it says, Where old death is your victory? Where old death is your sting? Now, he does it again.

The sting of death is sin. And the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. And so I think it goes back to the garden where those two unfortunate things, things happened. There was a sin involved. There was a separation. And there was a, uh, a condition where our body was bound to decay. It was like a secondary reaction. And, and the reason I'm making such a big deal of this, because when Michelle asked that question, one of the things Peter said that's also intriguing is in verse, uh,

24 of Acts 2. He's preaching the sermon. It says, but God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. Somewhere else it says, nor did his body see decay. Oh, it's in verse 31. Yeah. So 31, seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ,

that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. So somehow, somehow, the famous theological roadblock, somehow. Jesus, in Peter's sermon, you see that kind of link there also, where he makes punishment for our sins, or even as, you know, it's disputed, but when Paul says 2ndthians 5, he became sin for us, this sin offering. But through that, he redeemed us of sin, made us clean as snow. But he also liberated us from this bondage of decay. And Romans 8 says that, which, by the way, Romans 8 gets back into this idea of heaven and earth being restored and renewed again, you know, for God's people.

So I think it's fascinating, and I just wanted to see what y'all thought about. It's interesting, too. I mean, you think about, I mean, what you're describing is the second law of thermodynamics entropy that things decay over time. I mean, that's a law of the universe. But you mentioned that tree of life, and that being the source of not decaying, you know, not being bound to the laws of the universe until there was sin. And then we were cast out of God's presence.

And I want to read this because I think this is super interesting. It's kind of a precursor of what we're probably going to get into of the next episode, but you brought it up, so I want to read it. Hang on, Zah. Before you read that, let's take our last break. All right, this will be a good setup for our next podcast, but based on what Jay said about the Genesis account, Genesis 3, this is after the fall of man, and this is part of the consequence.

It says in the ESV, it says he drove out the man. This is Genesis 324. He drove out the man, and at the east of the Garden of Eden, he placed a cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life. So if you think about what's behind this station and the pathway, if you could get past this particular gate, then you would have access to the tree of life and not be bound by the laws of physics and entropy, and you would live forever. But that pathway was blocked off. It was guarded by the share of them with the sword. And another way of looking at that is, is behind this angel,

behind the guarding of this angel is the true life-giving presence of God. So again, though, God's purpose has always been that he does want to dwell with his people, and God does want us to have life with him and life abundantly. And so he institutes the tabernacle in Exodus 25, and he says, build the tabernacle. And listen to this in Exodus 26, verse 30 through 35, when he gives instructions. Because we read through these instructions on, you know, we think these are stupid details or insignificant details about the construction of the tabernacle when they're actually not. There's a lot of theological significance here.

Listen to what he says about what they should do. Then you shall erect the tabernacle according to the plan for it that you were shown on the mountain. And you shall make a veil of blue and purple and scarlet yarns and fine twine linen. It shall be made with cherubim skillfully worked into it. And you shall hang it on four pillars of the Asia, Asia, overlaid with gold, with hooks of gold, and four bases of silver, and you shall hang the veil from the class and bring the ark of the testimony in there within the veil, and the veil shall separate you from the holy place from the most holy. You shall put the mercy seat on the ark

of the testimony of the most holy place, and you shall set the table outside the veil and the lampstand on the south side of the tabernacle opposite the table, and you shall I'll put the table on the north side. Now, you read that, what is all this detail about? This is the Holy of Holies that's being blocked, that's being guarded by a curtain that has the share of them on it representing the same exact thing that happened in the garden that prevented us from having direct access to the Holy of Holies, the presence of God, the life-giving source. And so what you're going to see in verse 44 and 45 next time we get in the podcast, that veil,

that curtain is ripped open. at the death of Jesus because it's basically indicative of us getting access now back into the tree of life and we get it through Jesus. So there is a, you want to talk about, what is this really about the fulfillment of Israel's prophecies? Yeah, all of it is indicative of the temple, Jesus ripping the veil at his death and making access to him available for us now, everybody. which is why the kingdom pictures you see in Revelation are of that same tree of life back on that living water and us with full access to it, which is the picture of completion you're talking about. One final answer to Michelle, because I feel like we should do since we went down that road, and this goes in with what Zach just said. You know, the verse where really they're getting that we didn't read in 1 Peter 317, where it says it's better if it's God will. it's God's will to suffer for good than for doing evil.

For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. Which, Michelle, that's the point. But then it says, for Christ died for sins once for all, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body, but made alive by the Spirit, through whom the Spirit, also he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah.

So most people, I included, think that it's just an analogy of what happened back then. But it says in it, you know, aid and all were saved through water. This water symbolized baptism that now saves you. It's a pledge of a good conscience. It saves you by the resurrection. But if you read Hebrews 11, to go back to the surrounded by witnesses in 12, The last two verses says these were all commended for their faith in verse 39 of 11, yet none of them received what had promised God had planned something better for us

so that only together with us would be made perfect. And my point I'm trying to make to get back to Romans 8, which is when Jesus died and was buried and resurrected, not only did it go from that point on in the kingdom being burst through this great act, his death on a cross went backwards to those who trusted in him through faith. He died for the sins of the world past, present, and future. Do you agree? And by that implication, what I'm getting at it may be that he and those who reject Jesus,

those who rejected God in their heart and faith, well, that also went past, present and future. There was a line drawn in the sand there. So it could be that in theory, but the point that you don't want to miss is when Romans 8 says the creation in verse 20 of chapter 8 was subjected to frustration not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning up until the present time, not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the spirit, which is the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead, Romans 8, 11, he just said, grown inwardly as we await, we wait eagerly our adoption and sons, the redemption of our bodies. In this hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is no hope at all. So my point is, there was a lot of things that happened when Jesus died.

And because of that spirit, he was resurrected. But that's the same spirit that makes us the royal priesthood as members of the kingdom now. That's why we're out showing love, joy, peace, patience to this day. But it also, the secondary link of this sin and death that happens, it also is our guarantee that our body will come forth from the ground. Ephesians one. It's a deposit. Yeah.

So what we're doing when we die, what did Jesus do? Well, it's the same question that what are our people who are in the Lord doing now who are in this paradise, in this state. And I don't think we were supposed to know those details. Yep. Because if we were supposed to, he would have spelled it out. In other words, we could be wrong, but we can't follow it up with, but probably. I mean, yeah, we're making it.

Could be wrong. I would say the way to wrap this up as well as this podcast is it's much more important to know what you're doing in the here and now to make sure you're ready for whatever period we're not quite sure about, but we have hope beyond the grave that we know we're going to be resurrected. So I think that's the best place to live. but thank you, Michelle, for sending that in the mailbag. We love getting stuff in both theological and just fun stuff that we give from you guys. So keep those coming.

Maddie will put it up there where you can write us or mail a letter to us. So we appreciate it. Next time, we'll get back into this and the statements of Jesus from the cross. We'll see you on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notice.

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