Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 859 | How Jase Adopted His Daughter & Phil Raises an Eyebrow at His Son’s ‘Crazy’ Africa Trip

Episode Date: March 27, 2024

Phil is touched by the bravery of African missionaries but amused by the ill-advised trip his son took to visit them. Jase recalls how his daughter, Karina, joined his family, and the guys delve into the conversion of Saul, a persecutor of Christians, into Paul the apostle. Al and Jase point back to two other stories in the Old Testament where the Israelites were righteously called to oppose idolatry. The guys agree that sincerity in the Holy Spirit is what draws people to Christ more than educated words. In this episode: Acts 9; John 14, verse 6; Ezekiel 1, verses 26-28; Philippians 3, verses 3-9; Revelation 1, verses 12-17; Numbers 25, verses 1-13; 1 Kings 18, verse 4 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. A couple of plugs here to get us started today. Last podcast got started way off the rails. And I admit it was totally my fault because I just wanted to hear Dad's take on certain things that I won't go back into. I could. Let that lie. I let that lie. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Why Jesus is your greatest hope on Earth in eternity. Dad's new book is out. So you can get that at Phil Robertsonbook.com.

It's one place to go, but there are other places as well. So check that out. Also, the blind, Zach, is now out on PureFlix. So we're excited about that. So if you have a PureFlix subscription, is that the way it works? Then you can get the access to the movie. Yeah, then you can watch it. Or you can get the DVD still and rent it on,

but if you don't want to rent it or anything, Yeah, it's on the Pureflex, GAC, GAC Pureflex platform now. Excellent. So, and I was just in Oklahoma this past weekend and met a family that had been supremely moved. She told me she cried through the whole film, had a huge impact on her. She had a teenage son with her, a huge impact on him and his life. So dad, and I told them the story, you know, about us, you know, being a little bit reluctant. And I told them, I said, you know, dad, we were reluctant, you know, and who wouldn't be about.

putting, you know, your whole life story on a movie screen, but it's still impacting Dad, so I'm glad we did that. We got some special guests in our peanut gallery today watching our podcast, and one of them is our good friend Estabin from Nicaragua. And he has a long history with us, and Jace, you have a direct connection with him because of your sort of adopted daughter. I do. Came from Nicaragua. By way of his day been helping us. Well, and

he was a great mentor to Karina, which we refer to as our daughter now. And that was basically just a handshake deal. Yep. But,

an orphan in need is what she did. Yeah, I made the statement. After being a little dubious of it because there was some incorrect facts when how she came

to be with us, you know, we were told she was 24 and not from a stay, but it just, it's like if you tell somebody something and they tell somebody else something, then they tell somebody else something. The details get a little blare. We have countries that are the chasm here. Next thing, you know, there's a 24-year-old girl needing a place to stay for a couple weeks, but it turned out she was 18, 17 or 18. Yeah. And after a while, it's like, okay, you don't have any parents. You're going to live in America.

We don't have a daughter from Nicaragua. We both love the Lord. So you want to be a part of our family. And she was like, yes, please. But we've fallen in love with her. You know, and the statement was also the first time I met him, Mike Kellett, who's here on Set as well today, one of our pastors, and Jayce was your youth minister back in the day,

is here. And we were down in Naba, Dominican Republic, and we were working with an orphanage that our whole families work with, Missy's worked with it. Corey has worked as well. And I met a young man in the halls of Duck Commander this week, Jase. And he came up and shook my hand.

He said, I just want to thank you because I first met you and I was a little kid in the orphanage in Naba. He now works for either Duck Commander or Tread Lobby, Zach. I'm not sure which, but he and his wife are here. And I just thought, man, how does that? I mean, we went down to Dominican and working with an orphanage. And all these years later, this young man makes his way to Liberty University and marries a girl from the U.S. And now he's working for our company.

It's crazy. What's interesting is I know y'all didn't have this plan, but we're actually in the section of the Bible where it's the birthplace of Gentiles, which is anybody not from Israel. That's right. being able to hear the message of Jesus, which Saul, who would become Paul, would become the special instrument to make that happen. And now here we are a couple thousand years later, and you're seeing the fruit of that 2,000 years later. So in this room, we have Nicaragua, Africa, and that was the other two guests, North America, and Arkansas, represented in one room. So Arnold and Sister Faith, Brother Arnold, Sister Faith, are here watching, and they're from

Senegal is where they work, which is a Western African country, French speaking. And they are from Ghana. And so he told his story. They've been in town about a week. And this couple, one of my favorite couples in the whole world. And one of the reasons why is because I was on my way to the Gambia to speak at a, at a gathering. And our brother Isaac Day, who has crossed over now, is waiting the resurrection.

He had invited me. And so I went, but I really, you know, normally Jesus sent him out two by two, which is the best way to do it, by the way. When you're traveling, especially to another continent and especially to Africa, it's best to have somebody with you. But, you know, I was young. I was full of him and vigor and everybody was busy. So I wind up going solo on this trip.

I get into Senegal to Dakar. Senegal, which is the capital city, they speak French, so very few English speakers. And it's 3 a.m. You know, I'm tired. You've been flying, but I'm excited at the same time. I go to get my next flight because Dakar is just a hub, and I can't find the airline counter that's on my ticket. I think it was a South African airline, but I'm not exactly 100% sure anymore.

And so I'm looking around. I can't find it. I'm wandering around. I finally find somebody that speaks English and they help me get to a person that's a representative of this airline. She was there and I said, I'm trying to get my next flight into the Gambia. And she said, oh, no, no, no, that flight's been canceled. And I said, oh, okay, so when's the next flight to there so I can get that worked out? She said, maybe never.

I said, maybe never. I mean, it's not very promising. She said, no, no, no, problems. Maybe never. Well, I don't know what that means. And I also don't know where to go next because nobody speaks to English here. But Joe Gower, bless her heart, speaking of Arkansas, she had handed me a little note card and it had a name on it.

And it said, Arnold Jha, which is DZAH, is how they spell their last name, Arnold Jai. She said, if you have any trouble in Dakar, here's the guy you call. He's one of our one kingdom speakers. And so I was like, well, I'm having problems. So I found a guy who spoke English. I gave him the number. He called him on his cell phone. It's five in the morning.

And so I wake this brother up. And I said, I'm in a bad way here because I don't know how to get out of here. My only thing to do is get back on a plane and go back to the U.S., but I don't really want to do that because people are waiting on me. I walk outside. All these faces are there. I'm one of the few white people, of course, you know, on the premises. I'm looking at all these faces trying to figure out who,

Who is Arnold John? And I look up and there's only one face, Jayce, that's smiling out of a sea of phases outside that airport. And I told my guy with me, I said, that's our guy right there. And it was the love of Christ, brother. It was in your face. And I went and found him. He took me to his house.

He put me up. He fed me. Came back the next day. Got me straightened out. Got me on my plane. And I told him when I left there, I said, Arnold, you have done a great service to me because, you know, Jesus saved me. but you've saved me in Africa.

And I said, I will support you until as long as you want to work here. I'll be one of your supporters. And I have been ever since. And we've been good friends. And his wife, Sister Faith, is an amazing woman. Leas and I have been back over, spent some days with them. They're visiting their work. So I'm super excited they're here today.

And they just happen to be traveling through. So welcome. That's a pretty good story, yeah. It's pretty amazing. Dad told me this morning. I was telling Dad this story before we came over here. And he said, well, you were a little bit crazy. to pull a stunt like that.

I said, oh, I was a lot crazy when I was younger. You just don't quite think things through, you know. You don't travel by yourself. I mean, we really don't talk about it much, though, but because we in our world, we have such a difficult time, even defining what love is. But there is a love via the Holy Spirit that we share across this planet for those who are disciples of Jesus.

And that love is the most special. of loves. It's hard to describe. It's recognizable. I mean, it really is. Even with the Staben and Karina and I met I met Karina and as we got to know her, I hadn't even met a stabin and I loved this man because I knew that he saw a girl who's an orphan girl and saw an opportunity there and so when I did get to meet him face to face it's just hard to describe what what that is. You already have a connection. You see it. You see it. You You see it as an evidence of God on the planet. And I'm meeting our guests for the first time.

You just, we're in this together. We're part of a forever family. And you know that we're going to be together forever. And in the meantime, there's lots of work to be done. So, and, you know, at night when we're asleep, we're catching up on our rest, getting ready for our next day to do whatever we're going to do for the kingdom. They're working halfway on the other side of this planet.

They're going full bored because they're going. in the daytime. And then when they're sleeping at night, we're doing it here. But this is the way the Almighty is working it around the globe. Arnold, he went to a country

that's 95% Muslim to talk about Jesus. So I'd say there's a pretty good bonus about the man just to make the move. And they went from two congregations to 17. So obviously this man is doing

a great work. That's awesome. Yeah, which is really fantastic. You can read more about this work on One Kingdom.org, by the way, if you want to go check it out. So at some point, evidently, this Ethiopian traveled around, and, you know, you're tracing back the roots of what they got going on. Exactly.

Their roots are a lot deeper than our roots, chase. That's where it all started. We actually came from their roots. That's exactly right. They're rooted in before us, which is a great blessing. Are we ready to get to Ax 9, following? I'm ready. I think so.

All right. Have y'all been studying this? I kind of have an eye-opening experience study in this. We've been studying. No, we've been sitting around eating bonbons. What do you think we're doing here, Jay? Of course we're studying. Well, we had a segue.

The last time we heard Saul, he was there giving his approval over Stephen's death. Right. Yeah. And then we got into, you know, kind of Philip, the Lord had led him, and we closed out with the Ethiopian. But because chapter nine starts with. Meanwhile, it's almost like a movie. Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. Because you remember, I did that little Greek word search on ravaging.

Where was that at? That was in a, he ravaged the church. 8.3. In 8.3, the NIV, which is not the best translation, it just says to destroy the church. I mean, what does that mean? But in your version, it actually has ravaging. Yeah, ESV says ravaging. Yeah, and so here you kind of get that picture, too.

He went to the high priest and asked for letters to the synagogues in Damascus so that if he found any there who belonged to the way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground. and heard a voice say to him, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Who are you, Lord? Saul asked.

I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. He replied, now get up and go into the city, and you'll be told what you must do. The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless. They heard the sound, but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes, he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. For three days he was blind and did not eat or drink anything. In Damascus, there was a disciple named Anonis.

The Lord called to him in a vision. Anonis, yes, Lord, he answered. The Lord told him, go to the house of Judas on straight street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision, he has seen a man named Anonis come and place his hands on him to restore his sight. Lord Anonis answered, this is kind of funny. I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. It's so amazing because you know he's a about man.

This is one of those. Just check and make it. We talk about the same saw here. I don't think you know what this guy's been up to. Jason reminded me at one time our grandpa, dad's dad, Paul. He was praying and he had gotten older. and he was praying about something. He said, and Lord, I know you already know this,

but I saw on the news about what was going on in Russia. And it was, I mean, I just got so tickled because he was just like, you know, he was having a full conversation, but it reminded me of this text. Yeah, but he's, he, Anonis goes on to say in verse 14, and he has come here with authority from the chief priest to arrest all who call on your name. But the Lord said to Anonize, go. Go.

this man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name. I love that verse. That's the verse. I love it for him. I don't love it for me, but I know that this is part of what we're called to do, which goes back to our last podcast.

But 1st Peter 4.1, Peter kind of says those. kind of thoughts. When you have the attitude of Jesus, you're going to suffer. Yes. For doing this. And really, you think, even in, I heard some scholars say that, you know, when you read about Paul, because we're really fixed to spend a lot of time. And the good thing about this is Saul's conversion, is that then he wrote all these

letters as Paul. And so there's a lot of insights on what this meant, his presiding. perspective. You see all these riots that he's fixed to calls. And so the scholar said that, you know, how come every time you read about Paul in Acts, there's a riot going on? And this guy was from England. And he said, every time we do something in the church, the best thing we have happened is somebody asks us if we want a cup of tea. And, of course, he kind of was making the point that maybe we're not ratcheting. up the declaration of Jesus because you even notice in this verse where it says that he's going to

proclaim he's going to be God's chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings. Yeah. And before. Which we're going to see that before we get to the end of Acts. Yeah. I'm just telling you, there's no place for separation of church and state in the book of acts. It was, if you have ears, and I don't care who you think you are, we're declaring that Jesus is the Christ, he's Lord, he's the Messiah, and oh, by the way, he was resurrected from the dead. There's your proof. And that's a good point, because Paul fully injected politics into his situation later in the book. And he gets hemmed up in a situation. He's like, hey, hey, Roman citizen here, is what you're doing legal? Well, I mean, he just, he just, he's just,

just put politics right into everything that was going on with the first century church. Yeah, I'll read this last little section, then we can talk about it. So then Anonis went to the house and entered it, placing his hands on Saul. He said, Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here,

has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Immediately something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength. So I guess the first thing that we need to say is his conversion is going to be shared three different times. This is one in Acts 9. We have one in Acts 22.

His retelling of it, yeah. And then Acts 26. Correct. Yeah, he keeps going back to this, not unlike what we do. I do it. When we share Jesus, you know, you kind of tell how we got here, especially since in this case, he went from killing disciples of Jesus to being a disciple of Jesus and having his life threatened numerous times.

In fact, he has a whole paragraph in either First or Second Corinthians about the things that happened to him. He has a rough job. He was beaten with rods. He was bitten by a snake. He was flogged. in prison. Five times he received the 39 lashes.

I mean, he was scarred. I mean, most people only get that once, you know. Yeah. Not five times. So, no, that's right. So really, this has become a famous catchphrase in the religious world. They're like the road to Damascus. And they try to apply that.

But in my study, really, I should have done this years ago. What I was shocked at is that you got to remember. remember that Saul, he was not an atheist, he was not an agnostic. The God he was serving and following was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He just thought that this Jesus movement was something that was basically a bunch of heresy and heretics and needed to be snuffed out. And remember, he was a student of Gamal, who we read about. earlier in Acts. And so you remember in his line on it was, hey, let's don't, you know, he backed off.

He said, let's, let's check these guys out. If it's from God, we can't stop it. Yeah. But if it's not, you know, then it's going to go its own way. Well, you're right. Saul fully believed it wasn't from God. And that's what was motivating. That's what was.

Yeah, that's why I wasn't giving Gamalil a lot of love because I knew this connection. So I knew. But that was good advice. Yeah. And good thought, which we usually, just as Americans, we're like, want to demonize Saul, but it makes you really fearful of having a belief in God. And it was the right God. He just didn't realize that all those prophecies were about Jesus.

Yeah. Well, I mean, he said, because he said he was acting in ignorance. I mean, he also said that he persecuted the church. in good conscience. I truly believe that Paul thought he was doing the, or Saul, rather, thought he was doing the right thing as he was persecuting the church. He just didn't have all the information until this moment when Christ obviously reveals himself. And then something else happens after this where I'm sure we'll get into the next podcast. Hopefully that passage in 1st Corinthians 15, where he presents the gospel as something he received, the death barrier on resurrection of Jesus, he received that. So he, from some of the other apostles. So he's starting to receive this new way here, which I love in verse two. I love this phrase.

I want to read this. I want to get y'all's thoughts on it because I think it just hits different than the idea of just being a Christian, but it says he asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus so that if you found anyone belonging to the way. And I just, I love that phrase, the way. Like you can see here that the early church was a movement. It was vibrant. It was a life. And so Paul's like that's what Paul's trying to try and trying to shut down. But it's eventually what's going to happen here is he's going to be co-opted into that and given a new name and a new identity. And he'll be the one that takes the way to the Gentile people, which is we're having this conversation right now. Don't you think it probably is that picked up from that verse in John 14? I think it's verse 6. This where Jesus says, I am the way, the truth and the life. I mean,

In other words, that was his own wording. And so I don't know if maybe some of his disciples were using that phrase, but you're right. Paul picked it up, and he took it as, you know, obviously a negative in the sense that, but it was a name. And it's the second time. Remember what was it back in Acts 4 where it said the name? That was another thing it was called was the name. I think what it does is Jason mentioned at the beginning of either of this. But we say this all the time, is that the gospel is not.

It is not just about what we're saved from. It's also about what and who we're saved too. And it's impossible to separate the gospel from the kingdom. It's also impossible to separate the kingdom from the king. And so I love language like this in scripture because it paints a bigger picture. It paints a picture of a kingdom that we're part of. It's a way. It's not a way.

It's the way. It's more of a lifestyle. The name. Yeah, the name. It's more. powerful than just like a name that we attach to us. As some, we just add it to our,

this is a way of life that we're living in. And I think that's why it was so provocative and why they felt like they had to stamp it out. Because what was, because it was growing. I mean, the way was expanding rapidly and they had to shut it down or it was going to completely collapse their system. Ironically,

it collapsed her system anyways, but, but that's what they were a fear. And it was also harder to hem it up when it went by a lot of different names because you read a lot of different ones. Whereas today we try to hem it into one name. So what you got to remember, though, this is a huge transition. Because everything up until Stephen's sermon, you know, was all about the Jews. And all of a sudden, this persecution breaks out when Stephen gives his famous sermon to them.

Because they're like, he started talking about Jesus is the temple. and these you know you haven't you can't keep the law and all these things you never listened to the prophets was there was there any prophets you didn't persecute because he basically is saying what jesus said in luke 24 where all those things were about me and you remember john five it's like you study these scriptures thinking that by them you'll possess eternal life but you haven't you haven't given your life to me i am what the scriptures were pointing to you remember we did that 1 Corinthians 4th 15 where he talked about he reminded the Corinthians of the gospel according to the scriptures well what scriptures is he talking about yeah old testament so so then all of a sudden you have this

transition because since the church is scattered which was the original plan in acts 1 remember what jesus said start here it'll go and it just happened even though there was a plan it happened by circumstance which the lord was moving in these circumstances as well and the holy Spirit, you know, speaking to Philip with the Ethiopian. And now you got to remember Paul, as Saul saw the sermon. He heard the sermon. Saul Stephen died. I'm sure he was looking up. I mean, when he saw Stephen looking up, the whole thing, he witnessed that and heard the message of Jesus. Of course, he's still, I believe, pursuing what he would think is a sacred violence. He's protecting his belief in God what he thinks to be true. Yeah. But it may

be- So those passages, you're right, just those passages that he was hearing Stephen, quote, Paul knew this, Saul knew those very well, and that he's blind. All the knowledge is in his head. It's in the heart, but he didn't, he was blind so he couldn't see the purpose of it. Well, it's, but here's a key point, though. This is a really key point. point for us that you can actually be in sin and have a clean conscience. I mean, this guy was, he was persecuting the church with a clean conscience. So people think, well, I'd let your conscience be your God. Well, no. I mean, that's, that's the conscience. You better let something bigger than that. Well, yeah, you got to let something bigger than that in there. So if you go to Philippians 3,

and he gives his take on, on his confidence to your point. And so in verse, just to read a little bit of this, this is Philippians 3-3. It says, for it is we who are the circumcision, we who worshiped by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, though I myself have reasons for such confidence. If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more. So he was circumcised on the 8th day, and so which... He bore the mark of a Jew. Yeah, he bore the mark of the Jew. And if you do, and if you just look at the community of Israel, the cultural markers, I guess. You know, think about all the great stories they had, or the part in the Red Sea and the liberation. They told these stories.

They knew them like the back of their hand. The circumcision, they married their own. They had all these food laws. And they were unified in that. And it was basically like a fence around their belief system that were the people of God. So that was his mindset. And he goes on to say of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews, in regard to the law of Pharisee as for zeal persecuting the church. And that's why I called it like sacred violence. As for legalistic righteousness, faultless.

But then he says, but whatever was to my prophet, I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. I mean, this was the Damascus road. He said, I don't want to know anything compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whose sake I've lost all things. I consider all other things rubbish, garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ Jesus. So when I read that phrase about zeal, because you're like, how could a man, he wasn't just persecuting the church, he was killing them, going house to house, sending, there's another place we'll read, where he's sending people to other towns, tracking them down.

I mean, it turned into snipers. Yeah. I mean, basically without guns, but trying to kill anyone who is declaring Jesus as Lord. And so in my research, I found two other people that were really zealous and who were approved by God. I know that's where you got. One of them is Phineas in Numbers 25. Are you all familiar with that story? Numbers 25.

Yep. I want to read that just because I think it's interesting. The other ones are more famous story that we've discussed before. So this guy, Phineas, and the spelling. is weird on that. P-H-I-N-E-H-A-S. I'll just read it. I'll skip over the town because it sounds like an English cuss word. So when Israel, while Israel was staying in this town, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with a moabit by women. That's why I brought up this. They, they had the strict rules on all this as a community representing God. It's the very thing

they've been warned not to do. Yeah. So they, who invited them to the sacrifice to their gods, which look, it's what happens. They're looking at women. It's triggering their sexual impulses, even though they know it's wrong, and they're doing it. And in their culture, sex and religion were all mixed together. It was all this is what we do. Yeah.

So the people ate and bowed down before these gods, and I'm going to warn you, this story's graphic. but I just want to try to get into the mind why Saul was justifying this. He was looking at this as righteous violence because he's familiar with this story way more than we are. So Israel, verse 3, joined in worshiping the bail of Peor. And the Lord's anger burned against them. The Lord said to Moses, take all the leaders of those people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord. so that the Lord's fierce anger may turn away. So Moses said to Israel, each of you must put to death.

You know, we got a war party here. So verse 6, an Israelite man brought to his family, a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses. So they were just doing this right in front of everyone. And the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the tent of meeting. So here's Phineas. when Phineas, son of Eliezer, the son of Aaron, the priest saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand, and followed the Israelites into the tent.

He drove the spear through both of them. You kind of get in the picture here. And through the Israelites and into the woman's body, then the plague against the Israelites was stopped. But those who died in the plague numbered 24,000. And so the Lord said to Moses, Phineas, this son, this priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites, for he was as zealous as I am for my honor among them, so that in my zeal, I did not put an end to them. So you see the commonality there? Well, he knew that story. And so that's what Saul's perspective of what was going on with this declaring this idea that a human can be resurrected.

in time, well, that's just ludicrous because they didn't believe that. They believed that was a resurrection happening at the end. But a human claiming to be God, oh, no. Because you'll have no other gods before me. So that's what's causing all this. The other example is Elijah. In 1st Kings 18 and 19,

which we don't have to read the whole thing, but you're going to see the same kind of principle in 1 Kings 18 there was a woman named Jezebel and it says in verse where's that at this is the big battle of yeah this is a long story but it's a good one is a good verse four i'll just skip through some of this while Jezebel was killing off the Lord's prophets so skip down to verse 16 yeah this is an incredible story uh so Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him and Ahab went to meet Elijah. This is about Elijah.

When he saw Elijah, he said to him, is that you, you troubler of Israel? I have not made any trouble, but you and your father's family have. You have abandoned the Lord's command, and here it comes again and followed the Bales. So it's all about idolatry and protecting the Lord's people. Some in the people from all over Israel to meet on Mount Carmel and bring the four 450 prophets of Bail and the 400 prophets of Asherah who eat at Jezebel's table. And the bottom line is they had this showdown. Dual on the mountain of whose God was right.

850 on one side, one on the other. This is like a pay-per-view. It's funny. Because the false prophets, the funny part of this story, because it's rated R, because they all died. But the funny story is when they declared their God to do something, Elijah was like, maybe you should shout louder. One of the phrases in the translation mean maybe he's in the bathroom. That was one of the things. Maybe he's in the bad.

Maybe he's, you know, on the bidet. Yeah, he's even joking. about it. So you read in like 1824 where he said the God who answers by fire, he is God. And so when you read the story, there was a place where it talks about Elijah's zeal. Because eventually, you know, God hurls down fire. They're all burned up. Elijah is saved.

And so then in 191, Ahab told Jezebel everything Elijah had done. and how he had killed all the prophets with the sword. It wasn't him. It was God. Yeah. And working through Elijah. So Jezebel sent a message saying, may the gods deal with me be it ever so severely if by this time tomorrow,

I do not make your life like that one of them. So, and the fight just continues. Which goes to show you that sometimes the big mountain moment that you think is going to convince people of the truth still doesn't get to their heart. I mean, her heart still didn't change. Yeah, so I found what I was looking for. So in 1910, it says, he replied, I have been very zealous because he said, and the word of the

Lord came to it. Word of the Lord. We're back on this again. What are you doing here, Elijah? He replied, I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. And then in verse 14, he replied, I have been very zealous for the Lord God Almighty. the Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars,

and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they're trying to kill me too. And then verse 15, this is why I was reading this. The Lord said to him, go back the way you came and go to the desert of Damascus. So you don't think Saul's not familiar with this story? This happened in the same region.

and he's thinking, yeah, I'm zealous for God. I'm doing the right thing. You left out my favorite part. He went to an earthwind and fire concert on his way back because there was an earthquake, a great fire, and a great wind that came up. Well, I hope we've teased you enough to read that whole story because there's a lot of things that come out of that. And, I mean, when you, when you, because look, the world,

we get to looking around at the world, and yes, there's a lot of evil deep. Keeping the law. has taken on new meaning after looking at that. Yeah, exactly. And forcing other people to make sure they keep the law, because that's what this is about. Oh, yeah. But it's easy for us to feel like,

oh, what are you puny little Christians going to do? And you read a story like that, when the Lord is for you, who can be against you comes out? I mean, don't ever doubt it. He has called us to suffer, and sometimes it looks like we're surrounded. What's that song?

But we're surrounded by him. I mean, we win at every, turn. Yep. And so, you know, it's something that excites you. And I hope I've teased you enough to read that story because it will really make you stand up and go declare, hey, there's a God and he's alive. And also is a great story for sometimes you feel like the whole world's against you.

But at the end of the day, when God's with you, that's all it takes. Because he told him, he said, I got some people out there that hadn't given up. That's right. You keep going. Well, the reason I think it's important to do that is that because we, We just don't, if you read that story and say, oh, here's the, well, where's my road, my Damascus Road experience? Well, it's different.

I mean, this was a transition to allow this fellow who was a Jew, born a Jew, but it's a Roman citizen, which, where, where says that out? 20 and 4, I think. Is it 21, 4 or chapter 20 in verse 4? Yeah, there's a couple of places. They were fixed to beating. They put him in prison. He's like, hey, I'm a Roman citizen. And a lot of scholars, they really don't know how that's possible,

but there was different ways to become Roman citizens. Right. And he was born there. But he was God's perfect idea to be the instrument for the Gentiles. They said, are you a Roman citizen? Yeah. And then they, so they let him out of jail in that situation, which I guess we'll be. That was Acts 1637, so where that's at.

Oh, I was way old. It's also an ironic pick for him to be the one to take the gospel to the Gentiles because he was so steep in Judaism. I mean, this guy, like, you mentioned the passage out of Philippians 3. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, so it's like you think, like, you would think you would have somebody that wasn't quite that zealous. I mean, if we were picking that person, we would go look for a liaison that maybe had a lot of sympathy and a lot of, you know, dealings with a lot of more. Or we probably wouldn't, on one level, we probably wouldn't look for a zealot of that caliber because they may have a hard time actually identifying with people in that community, which is, you know, we want to find someone who can identify with that community. Which is also ironic that this is the same guy that when Peter, I mentioned it on the podcast before in Galatians, when Peter was sympathizing with the Judaizers, it was Paul.

that went in and rebuked him to his face for that. So it's just, it's so interesting that this is the guy that was dead set on restoring Judaism and to its glory and its purity. And that's the guy that Christ says. No, you're actually, I'm going to actually send you over here, and you're going to be the one that brings the gospel to the Gentile people. Well, and part of it, Zach, is the leadership. A lot of times, you know, you'll have a vacuum and somebody will step into that.

You remember, these guys are pretty wishy-washy about what to do with these first century disciples. They kept going back and forth. Well, he, Saul had no question about what to do with him. We track them down, we kill them, and we put a stop to all this. I mean, so I think he rose up because of his zeal. You know, that was what. I think God took his passion and then redirected it.

Exactly. So often we think, oh, we have to have these credentials, got to have the credibility, got to have whatever the thing is to reach a particular people group. And really what you need is you need the Holy Spirit. And that's why when Paul wrote the letter to the Corinthian Church, what does he say? I didn't come with wise persuasive words or all these eloquent arguments, you know, lest the cross be into its power. I came to you with the demonstration of the Spirit's power.

And it's that sincerity that is born to the Holy Spirit, that if somebody has that, has him, you cannot fake that. And that is what, that is the power that we should be asking for is God, show up in my life, Holy Spirit, live in me, move in me, breathe in me. I want to, I want to move where you're moving. And if you have that type of sincerity, that's not a sincerity that you've conjured up. It's not a sincerity that you're manufacturing. It is a work of the Holy Spirit. And your role is simply to fall in your face before the living God, just like Saul did on the road to Damascus when God spoke to him. He just hit the deck.

He's like, I mean, Lord, you got to imagine. This is the guy who was persecutting the church in good conscience. He's walking down this road, probably whistling the tune. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, the God of heaven speaks to him and says, why are you persecuting me? Not the church. He didn't say that. So why are you persecuting me?

Because what you're doing to my people is a direct, you're, you're, you're, you're coming at me. I mean, I can't imagine in that moment, he must have been like, whoa, I got this completely wrong. His response was right, though, hit the deck and just say, Lord, what do I do? It was a man who fully thought he knew Yahweh, but didn't know Yeshua. He didn't know Jesus. I mean, and that's what changed. And it's the same prophecies out that your mom spoke over dad, her brother. Yeah. She said, if this man can find Jesus and Jesus can find, find him. If there's a connection, he will lead thousands. And why would she say something like that? Because she saw he was a man of influence. He was a man of leadership. He was a man

that could impact other people. She saw that. And she was right out. Yeah. Phil. Phil is a testimony of probably the most sincere outside my mother. Well, she was the same way. But just sincere in their faith led by the Holy Spirit. I think it's one of the reasons why a lot of times in our comments, I read stuff like, Chase, Al, and Zach, I need to shut up. We want to hear Phil talking more. I think that's why. Because I think that Phil, he carries, you do, Phil. The problem is, Unashamed Nation, Dad trained us.

So this, you know, we're all products of our training here. It's not rocket science. It's not rocket science. It's not. It's more simpler than that. Right. There's a lot of people across the earth. Yeah.

Well, Jesus is... A lot of people that have difficult to even reading or writing anything, but they can still know Jesus and find him. But, Dad, you've brought up Paul many times in your description because you had a similar experience. You were blind. You recognized the blindness and then you could see. So, I mean, it's the same thing.

Well, I think you hit on it, though, Zach, when he said, why are you persecuting me? And this goes with what's being declared. when Jesus was exalted and the spirit poured out, Jesus is now making his presence known through the spirit here. That's good. And I think that is really what can, because Paul,

Paul, even though he's down and he's been blinded, I mean, could have just said, no, I'm not doing it. I mean, it was his choice. Now,

once you have a conversation with God and you're blind, simultaneously, It would tend to get you. I'm leaning toward a life change here. But I'm just saying. You know what's funny? I don't think that Paul had a choice here, though. I thought about this.

You know in 1st, Corinthians 15, when he talks about how Christ appeared to all these different people, and how does he say that Christ appeared to him as one abnormally born? I was going to read that in Galatians 1, but we don't have time. But I wanted to get this in. Because I do think, though, you got to realize. he had just seen what happened to Stephen.

He's familiar with these texts, and there's a, you know, Ezekiel 1, which I've never heard preached on anywhere, it's this vision of this chariot throne with all kinds of graphic visuals. And at the end of it, I want to read it because I think based on what had just happened to Saul, seeing Stephen, and now he's hearing a voice, and he's having a conversation with, the exhausted Jesus in Ezekiel's vision and remember this is all pointing to Jesus and you're going to see that here you can read the whole thing in your own time but uh in verse 26 of chapter one it says above the expanse over their heads was what looked like a throne of sapphire and high above on the throne was a figure like that of a man so he gives this vision of a heavenly throne

chariot and then here's a man you know in heaven you're like what i saw that from what appeared to be his waist up he looked like glowing metal as if full of fire and that from there down he looked like fire and brilliant light surrounded him because you got to remember in this story what how did it start they saw a giant light and even the people around we'll see in the other saw conversion stories. They saw the light. They just didn't see the person. And they heard the sound, but they didn't see who was doing the talking. And Saul was blinded. But then it says, and brilliant light surrounded him. Like the appearance of a rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the radiance around him. Well, who do you think Ezekiel's talking about here? I know who he's talking about. And you know

Saul was familiar with this story. And he probably, he often wondered. I wonder why it says it looked like a man. But look what happened when he saw this. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. When I saw it, I fell face down, and I heard the voice of one speaking. So I'm saying fast forward to a guy who knows that scripture like the back of his hand. He's passionately killing other Christians. He just saw Stephen having this lookup moment where he saw the fulfillment of that vision in that Jesus is at the right remember he was standing instead of sitting and now all of a sudden you're having a conversation there's a big light don't you know he had to think oh wait that's it's it

I think these scriptures were about him oh he yeah I well let me let me raise you one here because There's a similarity here with what you just read in Ezekiel 1. What happens to Paul on the road to Damascus and listen to what happened to John on the Alapapagos, Revelation 1, 12. Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me. And upon turning, I saw seven golden lambsstands. And in the midst of the lambsstand was one like the son of man, clothed with a long robe and a golden sash around his chest. The hairs of his head were white like wool like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire.

His feet were like bronze furnished, refined in the furnace. And his voice was like the roar of many waters. In his right hand, he held seven stars, and from his mouth came a sharp, two-edged sword. And here's the part about the bright light. And his face was like the sun shining in its full strength. And when, in Ezekiel, when he had this encounter, when Saul had this encounter, and now John, when he had this encounter, guess what they all do? When I saw him,

I fell at his feet as they was down. I went down. I know we got to quit, but they're giving you pictures because it's hard for the human mind to relate to this kind of power and this kind of new creation. But the pitcher,

you know what the pitcher is saying? There is a God. He's alive. Jesus is exalted at the right hand of God. He's king of kings and Lord of Lords. The best place to be before him is on your knees. Jason, for a man that says he's done on the Old Testament,

numbers 25, 1st, 1st, King's 18, Ezekiel 1, I'm impressed. We'll see what he can do on the next Unashamed podcast. We'll see you next time. Well, what about Daniel 7? Isaiah 6. I was going to raise you with Daniel 7 and Isaiah 6, but we ran out of time. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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