Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 866 | Missy Encounters a Hitchhiker Who’s ‘Not a Serial Killer’ & Phil’s Favorite Bible Verse

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Missy has an ominous encounter with a hitchhiker holding a sign on the same day Jase witnesses something similar. Phil reveals his reaction to one of his favorite Bible verses the first time he ever read it. The guys discuss the trouble churches sometimes encounter when it comes to changes in services or leadership and how sometimes we bow to societal norms even when we know they’re not right with God. In this episode: Acts 10; Luke 7, verses 1-10; 2 Corinthians 1, verses 18-20; 2 Timothy 4, verse 2 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. We're still in our respective abodes. I'm in Gulf Shores. Zach's in from North Carolina. Zach, glad you could join us today. It's always good to have you. I'm here, Al. And also, did you get, I got you a deal on a hotel in New Orleans. I appreciate that. You saw the email. I did see the email. Okay. Zach's looking out for me. Lisa and I are going to have to spend some time down there as we talked about

dealing with her breast cancer issues. And so Zach, my erstwhile cousin is looking out for me. I'm working on the cuisine next. So we've got some top. Cuisine's important. You've got to keep that strength up. I know you love language, Al.

I know. It shouldn't be hard to find in New Orleans. The food is. Hadn't have any bad meals there. No, that's true. Which fits in quite nicely with. being free to eat things on a sheet drop from heaven.

Lots of that on the cuisine. Phil, how did you feel when you read that for the first time? Because we've been in Acts 10, and you were reading that for the first time in your faith as a hunter and an outdoors person. I was glad and I was actually surprised that he would be so redundant on.

on the fish of the sea, the ducks, the four-footed animal. He thought, I might. Get up, kill. I mean, no, no, like, I don't know whether he really means to kill him and eat them. Yeah. Yeah, no, he. I remember having the same thought. Oh, Peter.

Old Peter didn't leave no one stone left unturned as far as his. Well, Jay, I may be mistaken, but I think, thinking back in the early 2000, late 90s maybe, that this, that phrase, that text in Acts 10, arise, kill, and eat was the first duck commander t-shirt that we came up with that had a scripture on it. I didn't remember that. I think that's right. I could be wrong, but I think it was the first one, and it was really clever because it was a hunting reference, of course, arise, kill, and eat, but it was also a biblical reference,

which I thought was pretty good. I remember thinking the same thing just as an outdoors person. When I was reading this for myself, trying to figure out whether I was going to believe in God, we all go through that. I mean, I was young. But I remember, you know, Jesus caught. You felt more powerful, didn't you? Well, my thought was I started in the Gospels, and I was like, he called a bunch of fishermen? I just remember thinking, huh.

Well, I wouldn't have thought that. I mean, just no concept of anything. And they're built as just men that are unschooled and ordinary men. Yeah, unschooled and ordinary men. That's act four. You were searching for the verse. Yeah. Y'all still got the hat.

I don't remember a hat. I don't see the read it. I need to bring back the original. shirt. I remember that. But when I remember the shirt coming out, I was at a either jace or Phil. What of y'all were speaking somewhere? I can't remember who it was. So we're talking 20 years ago. And the way I heard you one of y'all pull, I think it's Phil, you pulled out the text, you read the text, and then it was kind of out of context. So everybody's like, you know, what's he going to say next? Arise, kill and eat. And you said, uh, something to the effect of.

So what we're doing here at that commander is we're just following commands from the Almighty. Orders from headquarters. And it was like something like whack them, stack them if it fly. There's a line you guys had. It was hilarious. I mean, the place just like erupted. Yeah, I think it was like whack and stack them or something like that. Orders from the Almond.

So let me give you a stars aligning story. So Missy's been in Nashville, you know, with the grandkids helping out. and being a good grandma and doing some kingdom work. So she gets in last night. So first question she asked, she's like, well, how did the podcast go today? And I was like, they were good. I said, we're in Acts 10. And I said, I had a weird thing happen.

And so I told her about, I think it was the last podcast. The Taco Bell story? The Taco Bell, yeah, the guy with the sign. Yeah. So I'm telling her because I'm. I'm, she, she's my greatest supporter and my greatest critic. So I was said, you know, when you're just thinking about spiritual things. She took, and she took, I could be wrong, but I doubt it to a new level.

You're willing. Yeah. Well, she'll, she'll tell me, you know, whether, whether I was off base. She added, you could be wrong. And I don't doubt it. You are wrong. Exactly. Which, look, your true friends in life will.

tell you. That's true. I agree, Jay. No, just as well as yes. And that's what you need in your life. I mean, they hold you accountable. You're exactly right. A great wife is a great cheerleader, but also a great critic because they're the ones that know you the best. So I was like, I mean, we're in Acts 10. I'm trying to explain that even though God chose Israel for this plan, when we get

to Acts 10, there's a new awakening where all people are coming through the same gate here and his name is Jesus. Yeah, that's right. With all different cultural background, skin color doesn't matter, your behavior, whatever you've done, wherever you've been, whatever you look like, whatever you do for living. I believe has proved to be, in my humble opinion. We could be wrong, but we doubt it. Yeah.

I mean, I think we're right on this. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So I start telling her the story. story with the guy with the sign and there's there's different you know racial people involved they're gathering I go through the whole story and uh she's like well you're not going to believe this i had a sign story today and i was like really so when she's driving from Nashville as she's getting on the interstate she looks up now think about this most people with the sign

They're hanging out when you get off the interstate or a red light or this person was while you're getting on the interstate. He's looking for a ride. And so she said he had a big sign and was like waving it almost in the lane that you merge on. He's trying to get people's attention. And she said, so I'm like, please don't run out in the road. It's a safety issue. she's not going to stop and pick him up but he's he has a huge sign and so she said you can't help but see it and she said do you know what the sign said and i said what she said the closer i got

when i read it it said i am not a serial killer that's get away from him if you got to say it if you got to say it man i'm feeling he's like Have you ever seen somebody with a sign like that? I don't get out anymore, but I would be saying, you know, where's my weapon? Sounds like dad thinks he may be a sick. Well, it's, you know, but just the thing she said after that, what, you know, kind of got comical because she was like, I mean, do you realize that no one's going to pick you up just because if you wind up dead, The embarrassment of you picked up somebody that said I'm not a serial killer.

That would be the most embarrassing way to die. Well, the trick is, I mean, how did he arrive at that particular statement unless he was one? Well, I'm not sure it's a big confidence builder. That's for sure. I'm not saying he's a serial killer, but I'm not. But you know, Dad, that's interesting, though, because you think about it. You're talking about how cultures can change because I remember you telling me stories of when you were young. you know, middle school up to high school age, and really almost even college age,

that used to hitch rides back and forth from, you know, Dixie and down where you guys live up to Shreveport all the time. Like, nobody thought anything about it. Hitch hiking was a major way to travel. Right. And people just, they never thought anything, but they just stopped. The guys walking along the side of the road needs a ride or if you stuck your thumb out. I mean, you never even thought about somebody attacking somebody or trying to

rob them or whatever. And so that's how much the culture has changed now that when we look at that, we're like fearful. I mean, a guy's got to have a sign that says, I'm not a serial killer, hoping that it'll encourage a little bit of hope to pick me up. I mean, that's where we're at as a culture. It's quite different than it was. That's happened in dad's lifetime. I know. So we started talking about it because I was like, well, I made a spiritual analysis out of seeing a guy with a sign, but I'm really not sure what the spiritual analysis is of that. Except that our culture has devolved into where it is now, which is much more fearful that people walking on the side of the road,

that's for sure. It is. Yeah, but I thought it was humors. Well, the good thing about today, Al, is we don't have to review where we were. Peter's going to do the review for us, Jace. I've noticed when the Bible is redundant, we ought to pay special attention. Correct.

Something happened here that the Lord wants us to get. We need to see what exactly happened here. Well, we've already made that point, Jase, because Paul, remember, tells his story of when he was struck down two other times in the Book of Acts, which we read all three of them for that very reason. That was a huge moment. And I think this, what we just read at next end, is a huge moment because Peter has to go back and basically defend what he did and why he did it.

And so he's going to retell the story when he gets in chapter 11. Some of the most powerful verses ever, and it's pretty cool that Paul said in that season four, he said, as a prisoner of the Lord then, I urge you. to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. And he goes through this little list to clarify what this is all about. There's one body, one spirit, one hope, when you will call one Lord, one faith, one baptism. All these things you read about page after page, he condensed it down to about two little Bible texts. And while he was at it, he said, you know, I'm in jail right now, but I mean, these men were, I mean, Paul and Peter and all of them, they were, what's the word?

They are relentless. Yeah, for the Lord. But the key verse in that, Phil, is verse three of chapter four of Ephesians when it says, make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit. Yeah. To the bond of peace, which is what's being discussed here. The spirit has been poured out. So it was poured out on the Jews. Peter got up and preached Jesus.

They responded, received end dwelling of the Holy Spirit. And now the same Peter in Acts 10 has seen a miracle from God that the Gentile world has also had the spirit poured out on them. And so now you start to see the struggle among people of having this unity in the spirit. And this is just at the beginning. And the power of it is the mystery is that the mystery is that through the gospel, the Gentiles are heirs together, which is unheard of up to this point, are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body and sharers together in the promise of Christ Jesus. The whole thing is brought to a head.

the mystery and what and how to get out of it. Just think about the- Together as one group and- Yeah, think about the power of that unifying the planet. Yeah. This is God's idea of unifying the planet. I believe that's the first time it's been clarified that simply, but that forcefully is that little text right there.

And Ephesian chapter 3, especially if you're reading over here while it's happening, you know. Well, that's a good point, Phil, because a lot of people will talk about the mystery of Christ, and they appeal to mystery as if it's something that's not known. But I'm like, no, he tells you what the mystery is here in Ephesians. And I think what happens then, even how he misinterpreted, when you don't understand the context of what Paul's doing here, you'll take a verse like Jason just read that make every effort to keep the Spirit of Unity to the Bond of Peace. and what we end up doing is we actually end up flipping that and we try to keep the spirit of

peace, the bond of unity. But that's not the same thing where you keep the spirit of unity through the bond of peace. So eager to maintain a unity of the spirit. So that's the key is it's a unity. It's ethnic people groups that would, I mean, not just ethnicities, but like in any form or fashion, talking about completely two separate types of people that would never do life together. Oil and water, they don't mix. But in the spirit, in Christ, there's a unity that happens in a peace that is a result of that.

There's one body, one spirit, just as you recall, to one hope that belongs to your call. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. but grace was given to each, each one of us, according to the measure of Christ's gift. I mean, that is, you can't overestimate or over-emphasize what Christ is doing here with these people groups. I mean, it's way bigger than anyone ever thought, which is always the case with God's promises.

They're always way bigger than we imagine them when we first hear them. Who were the captives when he ascended on high? He led captives in his train and gave. gifts to men. Who exactly was that group? When he was sent it on high, he let a host of captives. Hang on a second. Before we answer that question, let's take our first break. We're getting down a rabbit hole here, Phil. That's a good question there. I don't, we need to. Well, that's, there's been a lot of debate about that. Yeah, that's, that's Psalm 68, 18. Right. Do we really want to do that? But let's say that for when we get to Ephesus.

Yeah, let's save it for when we get to it. We're going to Ephesians Day. I just thought I'd throw it in there. Well, I can answer. It's a whole podcast. I can answer that question, but if we're going to ever get back to X 11, I'm not going to be able to answer that question today. Somebody accused us of having ADHD on this podcast. I don't know why they would say that about us.

We will. For those of you on the edge of your seat, we will get there because we're going to Ephesians Day. But I do want to mention one thing, Judge, that I didn't quite get to work in as we lead in to X11 today. was that I thought back to Luke 7, 1 through 10, when we read this story about Cornelius, because you remember, Jesus had already shown that his capacity was bigger than just the Jews, even though he came the way he did, he did it the way he did it. There were little glimpses all throughout his ministry. And one of them was that story in Luke 7 when he's nearing Copernium and a centurion who was there in the area.

had a servant who was dying. Remember that story? And so Jesus was going to go to him. And the centurion sends word to Jesus. He says, look, don't, don't bother. Lord, don't bother coming here. I know you got the power. I tell people to go and do stuff for me all the time.

You've got the power, if you're willing to heal him. And Jesus looks around the people around him, including the 12, which Peter would have been one of them, and says, I have found no greater faith in Israel than the faith of this centurium. because he understood Jesus had the power to heal from a distance. He didn't even need to show up to be able to heal this servant. And he did. He healed the servant.

So I just thought about that text in the context of what we're talking about here is that Jesus has always shown the capacity that it was larger than just the people that were around him. I mean, he understood it all obviously coming in. So I think he planted those seeds for these guys to realize as the story unfolded once he was gone. So I don't know if Peter remembered back to that moment or not with this interaction to Cornelius, but Jesus had already shown that there was faith outside of just, you know, physical Israel.

Yeah, and even one of the soldiers at the cross, I think, is the only time in the gospel that he's declared the son of God. That's right. That claim was made by one of the soldiers looking on. It said, surely he was the son of God. A Roman soldier. That's right, a Gentile. which is powerful. Well, let's look, let's get to chapter 11 because as Jay said, it's really going to be a look back at everything that we studied in the last couple of

podcasts and Acts 10. But it's going to be done through a different prism because in verse one, Luke says the apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. So I'm sure this was quite intriguing as the word is bouncing around. and I did think it was interesting that the word was out that they received the word of God. So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, and here we go, every time that Luke uses this term, you know, he's zero and in on something, the circumcised believers criticized him and said, you went into the house of uncircumcised men and ate with them, which is really interesting because the word is bouncing around of this great thing.

thing that happened. But when he gets back, he receives criticism because of this going to eat with Gentiles, you know, which was this, you know, norm that you didn't break. So Peter began, and then I love the way it says this, explained everything to them precisely. Now, notice when you're under criticism, the more precise you are, the better as it had happened. So here's his retelling of it. I was in the city of Joppa praying. And in a trance, I saw a vision. And in a I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners. It came down to where I was. I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles, birds of the air.

Then I heard a voice telling me, get up, Peter, kill, and eat. And I replied, surely not, Lord. Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth. The Lord spoke from heaven a second time. Do not call anything impure that God has made clean. This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again. Right then, three men who had been sent to me from Sessria stopped at the house where I was staying. The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them.

These six brothers, now we get a little more insight into that, because before it just said some people, six brothers went with him, and we entered the house, the man's house. He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house, and say, send a Joppa for Simon, who is called Peter. He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved. As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. This is an important piece of the puzzle here. Then I remembered what the Lord had said.

John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. So if God gave them the same gift as he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could oppose God? So he's making his argument there on why they should accept what's happened. And then it worked. When they heard this, verse 18, they had no further objections and praise God saying, so then God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life. You kind of get that idea here that they're, they get the conclusion of this.

So they're like, this thing is way bigger than we thought. He's even got, he's even opened this up to the Gentiles. I mean, it is a, that would probably be a pretty, pretty shocking realization. And I wonder how much, Zach, that they actually, like, even understanding it now, how much it still worked on their bias about the Jewish issues, because. we're not going to go far. We get to Acts 15. And we're going to be dealing with this whole thing again with this same group.

You know, and they have to make up this, you know, counsel letter and all this stuff about, you know, accepting uncircumcised people. So I think it's a lot of times what people do. They realize it's right in the moment. Yeah.

But you still hold on to your things that you're not sure about. And I think, I think as a pastor for me for many years, this resonated to me in that, Zat, Let's face it, I mean, every decade to 20 years, even in our current structure and system, we undergo method changes that cause all this angst and criticism and unrest in our churches. And so I think it goes back to this very root that was right there at the beginning.

And change is difficult. And we're talking about methods. We're talking about a lot of different things. But this was a case where everybody non-Jewish has an opportunity to accept. the message of God. This should have been something everybody was excited about without criticism, but it just doesn't work that way. I mean, I think it shows you how strong human nature is and how strong it is for people to think they've been right about something for whatever period of time. Yeah, I think I'll echo what y'all said. I think the point is that 11-9, when he said the voice,

when he's retelling the story, spoke from heaven, do not call anything impure that God has made clean. granted the the freedom to eat any food is awesome but the point was you start thinking about that statement he's talking about people and when you you tie in all the verses of being reconciled i mean just do a quick study on that that god was reconciling the world to himself through jesus you know thank second corinthians five this is what he's saying because the natural question is, well, how did God make people clean? And then you start tying in with why they're sharing about Jesus. And they're talking about the cross and they hung him on a tree and he was murdered and he, you know, went through the cross and the resurrection. This is God's plan to

reconcile Israel and the entire world. And so that's why when you see a statement like Barnabas when he was called to go to Antioch because he saw, where's that it where he says, he saw the grace of God, what the grace of God had done. Verse 23 of chapter 11, we're fixed to get to. It says when he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of God, just think about that statement. Well, where do we get the grace of God? What is the central piece of the grace of God? It's making humans clean through a sacrifice and an innocent death of himself on a cross.

So I really think it's a big point and wrapped around it. I think a side point is these people, what happened here in Chapter 11 is underestimated because you had believers who were at first criticizing. They went from being critical. It says the NIV says criticize in 112. They criticized him. And those people, 16 verses later, repented. Yeah, that's a good point.

So try to find that going on in the religious world today. Yeah. You know, we always think repentance is someone who doesn't know the Lord. It's for the unbelievers, not believers. Yeah. you had repentance happening because they were being so inclusive and not recognizing that God made everyone clean. But they did repent.

Remember Peter was having to proclaim a message here that he had to do himself first. I mean, that sheet dropped down three times, and Peter was still pondering it before he came to the conclusion that God says, I have made these foods now clean. And he was talking about men. He probably, I mean, I would probably argue Peter, I mean, obviously, he's like, I didn't really agree with God, but it's like, who might have to argue with him. I mean, that's kind of how I hear it. And so I think about, like, we have these things in our own churches. We have these things in our own churches that are like, that we could equate to the circumcision.

Because I think the issue here, I don't, I don't know if these people would have had a problem with him eating with Gentiles as long as they were circumcised. I think it was that they were hanging on to this one, like, remnant. of Judaism that we got to keep that circum, don't let the circumcision thing go. That thing, because that was so integrated into their worldview that to be, circumcision was a sign of the covenant. Think about that. This was a sign, this was the sign that, hey, we are in, we are, we are part of the covenant people group with God with circumcision.

So it was a big, big deal for them. And so I think that was their issue, but we have our own versions of that. You know, now, I mean, we grew up, if you hadn't researched our family and all, we grew up Church of Christ, and for many years, in the Church of Christ, you couldn't use instruments and worship. And, I mean, that's not the case for most of them now, certainly not the one you guys go to in WFR. But I remember 25 years ago, I remember Randy, what's the guy from Abilene, Randy Harris was speaking at a youth conference. there was a skit, and there was a guitar on stage as part of the skit. They weren't going to use it in worship, just part of the skit. And some people got upset that there was an instrument on stage.

And Randy heard about it, and I just never forget his opening line of his sermon. It just stuck with me all these years. He said, you can't pour new wine into old wine skins. And it was a way, but I mean, every denomination has their version of that, of the things. that we're going to hang on to. But it's probably more of a tradition that or something that is not bound in the new covenant. And so I still think we have like remnants of this in our churches today. And Peter continued to deal with this, by the way.

Like this shows up again in Peter, who at the time is now, at this particular moment in history, he's defending the case for inclusion of Gentiles, even though they weren't circummed. size, but that will pop up in his life again, which again just goes to show the grace of God and how patient God is in dealing with us in our theological errors, in our discrimination against people. Like, God is patient with us. Yeah. Working towards this spirit of unity to the bond of peace in us, but it's not something

that's finally realized in the moment. Yeah, you're right. And it will tend to come up again and again. Let's take another break. Yeah, well, I'm thankful. I either wasn't paying attention or I was. you know, Phil was converted too late for me to be indoctrinated into some of those beliefs. Because when I heard that was a thing, I was like, well, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I mean, it really? You never bought it? I never bought it. So, you know, it just seemed like I kind of justified it by like, well, no matter where you meet, there's going to, they're going to be wrong about things. That was kind of my thought. I remember thinking, you know, you've got 150 Psalms that are being written to a strained instrument. I mean, it just seems silly.

But think about how many groups, even outside of how we were raised, how many groups have war over worship? And we're talking about just how we worship the creator. I mean, you talk about something that should be way lower on the scale, you know, and yet that's what we get into. And that's my point. I mean, this idea resonates through that what the key moment here is these people now have an opportunity and have experienced salvation. I mean, that's got to be at the forefront. I mean, that's got to be above whatever else, you know, we can debate or talk about. We can't lose sight of that.

Well, it's an interesting point that Zach brings up. But I feel like it, I mean, part of the reason I think I don't get hung up in those kind of controversies. churches is just the mentors and teachers that I resonated with that where I learned the Bible, they always made a, there was two things that stood out, which is why I listened to them. They focused on the relational aspect of the Bible, that these words lead to a person. And just to give you an illustration in our text of that, just while you were talking, and I looked at this. In chapter 11 in verse 1, it said they were, they were criticized,

I mean, when they realized that Gentiles had received the Word of God. Well, what was the Word of God that were referring? What does that mean right there? Jesus. Yeah, they had shared Jesus, and they were welcome to respond. And they did, and they got the Spirit. Well, then even in Peter, when he goes on to say, when he began to speak in verse 15,

the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. Because we say, you know, these are the acts of the Holy Spirit. But watch what he said. Then I remembered the Word of the Lord. He went back to what Jesus, who in John 1, is the word that became flesh. And you say, what is your point? My point is the words that were reading,

And the word that Jesus embodied reflects the promises of God, which is a perfect tie-in to the promises made to Israel, to Abraham. And you say, well, what does all that mean? When you get fast forward and read something like 2nd Corinthians 1-18, Paul said, but as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not yes and no. For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you to Silas and Timothy, was not yes and no, but in him it has always been yes. For no matter how many promises God has made, they are yes in Christ. And you'll see that in the book of Acts constantly.

Yes, the Spirit is confirming the word. the word is reflecting Jesus in human form, but it's also reflecting that when God says something, every person has a choice. Are you going to trust him? Are you going to trust what he said? Or are you not? And that working together to me is a key

to understanding all of Scripture. You can go all the way back to the garden. Remember? God said, don't eat that tree. Well, if Adam and Eve would just trust him, and said, okay, but they wanted to make their own decision about good and evil. Remember, it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And so even this Bible is made of a tree.

You know, it's paper. And I guess if you were reading the Internet, it would be a digital version of a tree, I guess. But my point is it makes you come to a conclusion, are you going to try? trust what he says. And Jesus, not by accident, was referred to as the word. The word becoming flip. Words communicate. Are you going to trust it or are you not?

And so that was my point about these arguments that develop. All the arguments are about the words. And it's like we're trying to come up with a formula where we do all the words and all the commands correctly, instead of looking at it as these words come from an actual being that you trust, even though you may not understand everything along your growth process and journey, you're going to trust the Lord. And that's why I think Cornelius was converted. He was trusting God. He just didn't understand that this was about Jesus. And so instead of throwing rocks at saying, well, you don't even believe in Jesus, we're disfellowship in you or whatever.

You're doing these things wrong and you got the law wrong and you got the foods wrong or whatever it was. They introduced Jesus to him and guess what happened? Well, God opened his heart. They responded. The Holy Spirit came. And so I think that's just the way I look at it. So when people start arguing about frivolous things or making it doctrine or, you know,

whatever they want to call it, it's like draw a line in the same. and say if you do this on the you know on disagreement about the words and how you're going to go about about worship rather than who you're worshipping on and loving each other and figuring it out then I think you know and you know it's funny about that too if you look at if here's like a litmus test you could like you could look at someone or even your own heart and if what you're if you're talking all if you're talking about issues if you're talking about doctrine and you're not talking about who Jesus is, that's the sign. And you can, and I grew up with this, but it's like, it's all about the right belief system.

It's all about, you know, getting the right belief system. But what you said is key. No, no, we're talking about a person here. Yeah, we're pointing people not to a belief system, but that's not what we're pointing people to. We're pointing people to a person whose name is Jesus. and when you get sucked into the sectarianism, which is basically these sects that are separated out, and this is our little group here,

and here's our language of access, that you've got to get this language of access to get in the group and learn how to communicate this way, and here's the belief system you have to adopt, and here's all the things. You're not talking about the person of Jesus. And I've thought, man, I probably shouldn't tell people that

because then they could probably start talking about the person of Jesus and manipulate people into their sectarianism. But the truth is that won't happen. Because if you start talking about the person of Jesus, you're going to be changed. He changes people, not a system. It's not a system that we develop so we don't have to be good. As T.S. Eliot said, we are pointing people to a person. And I saw this meme I wanted to tell you all about, I just pulled it up because somebody said it to me this morning.

It's a meme. And in the background, you've got like four people in a room and they're all wrestling and fighting. And then the caption above those people is everyone online arguing about Christ is king, in quotes. Then there's another guy who's sitting there just working on his computer, just doing his work, and he's calm, and he's just knocking it out. And it says, going about my business since Christ is king. I thought, man, that's the difference. We can fight about Christ being king. We can fight about all the truths of the gospel, or we can live it out as if it's true because it is true.

And I think that only happens, Jay, to your point, and you can only escape these debates and these frivolous matters when you understand that this is about a person named Jesus that was drawing us into a relationship with the one true God. That's what it's about. So people would respond to that, and I've had them respond that. They're like, well, you know, 1st, Timothy 416 says, watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them. Yeah. Because if you do. and they'll come up with these doctrines.

But right before that, in verse 9, he said, this is a trustworthy saying. I mean, he's given advice to Timothy. We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. Well, then he starts, you know, command and teach these things,

and he goes through different things you do. But my point is, all of these things are in reflection, of the actual being that is God. Yes, that's it. And he's a complicated being to us because he's God, Jesus, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But even in 2 Timothy 4,

and now you remember this, when I was in Bible school, you know, I got up and shared what I'm sharing now, 30-something years later, in 2nd Timothy 4, 2, it says, preach the word, be prepared, in season and out of season, correct, rebut, and encourage. So I made a big deal about, because they had a little, what do you call it,

it's like a little marketing sign. Yeah, it's like a symbol. Yeah, they had a symbol on the pulpit there where the students would practice, you know, they're teaching and preaching. And it had the Bible open and I said, y'all need to put a picture of Jesus there because he is the word. The Bible reflects him. which reflects God.

And I was just trying to make that connection, which that didn't go well. But I was trying to change the marketing employee. But I was just saying we argue about all these things that seem to be so far away from the character of God. It's like you're arguing just about words, not in the context of the word, is leading you to an actual being.

It's not that the doctrine doesn't matter. It's not that we're anti-doctrine. What we're saying is, is doctrine you see through the doctrine to Christ. And if the doctrine terminates on itself, meaning if it's only about, well, it's about getting your doctrine right, why? But the question is why? Because the correct doctrine points you more correctly to who Jesus is. is I know him more clearly. But when we make about the doctrine itself,

then you do end up with a dead, cold religion. It's dead. There's no spirit in that. And it alienates that, which is the problem here, these Jews who had figured out that the Old Testament was pointing to Jesus, they were trying to hang on to the shadows and the laws and whatever else that was part of their heritage as being a,

is kind of like a bonus part of you repenting. Okay, you can come to Jesus now, but now we're going to go back and we're going to eat only these foods. We're only going to meet at the temple, whatever they were coming up with. You have to be circumcised. I don't care where are you from. That's just, that's another thing you have to do. And so you see that there and you understand it, but what I'm saying is you fast forward a couple thousand years and you see it now.

And it's kind of common in the denominational world that whatever these other things are that you must do, whether it's how you worship, whether it's with, you know, instruments or, I mean, there's a lot of things you could come up with that are different. That's one of the reasons why Jesus spent so much time using the phrase. hypocrites with a lot of these same people who are now seeing once he's gone, it's because he kept saying on the outside, you look like you have it, you've got the mark, you've got the rituals, you're going to the temple, but your hearts are hard. And so that comes back to that idea of the spirit. It's why he told the disciples in John 14, look, I know you want me here physically, but it's going to be far better for you that you don't have me here physically,

but you have my spirit living in you. And so John 14, 15, 16 lays that out. That's why I think Peter went back. He remembered that phrase that Jesus said, John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit. He's using a physical symbol, baptism, being immersed in water, which is what John was doing, that baptism or repentance, to now a spiritual concept of the Holy Spirit as being a result of our obedience to him, which is far better. That's why, Jace, we read the verses about circumcision. The circumcising of the heart is far more important than the circumcision of your body. And so it's the idea that mankind tends to want to hold on to anything physical

and not embrace that which is spiritual, which the Holy Spirit guides and leads us to. So that really becomes the difference. And I think that was the thing they were trying to, they're grappling with in this whole section. Well, the worst argument I ever had with a human being over the Bible, and I'll say this in context, this guy, they had been at the same church where we all meet or mainly meet. I mean, I meet at a couple. And they got mad about something. He didn't agree with. And so he came to my house. And he basically was saying, we're starting a new church, you know. And so I was like, well, why? And he's like, well, because I don't agree. And he talked for a couple hours.

And I couldn't figure out what exactly it was that I disagreed with. I really didn't hear anything. And so I was like, what's the problem? Why not just keep meeting? You know, why Lee? I was kind of given that angle. But the thing kind of got heated because he was like, well, you don't agree with me. And I was like, well, I think I do.

I haven't heard anything that I disagree with. I'm not sure what the problem is. And he's like, well, if you agreed with me, you would come and meet with us at our new church. I was like, it's the craziest thing I ever heard. So I kind of stopped in that moment and said, look, I love the Lord with all my heart, and I love you. And this is the phrase that got me. And he's like, no, you don't. I was like, no, I don't.

Yeah, I love God and I love you. He said, you don't love me or you would come with me. And I thought, I don't even know what we're disagreeing on. I'm trying to agree. I'm trying to tell you, I love you. But you've just made up your mind that whatever rub is in the saddle here is just, you're making a clean break. So, I mean, that was the end of it. It didn't have a happy ending.

I was like, well, okay. You've probably disagreed on who is going to be a good. who is going to be in charge. So what happened to him the best you could tell? Well, I hadn't seen him since. He's probably running his own show. But I guess that's what it was. But, you know, it was like, if I'm going to be involved in a coup,

I've got to hear something anti-Jesus, you know, or something fundamentally the point of the Bible that we're off. If it sounds like it was just a personal thing in leadership, up and he was upset and mad and wouldn't go into the details. And I was trying to encourage him and help him. But I thought this is not productive. This is not the alienation is never the answer. And that's a great point about unity.

We're not going to always see everything in the same way, but we're still together because we believe in Jesus. All right. So we're out of time. We're going to pick up in the rest of Acts 11, because we're going to have a little Paul interlude here that's going to come back in and see what he's. been up to while this other stuff's going on in the early church. So we'll get into that on the next

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