Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 870 | Lisa Addresses Her Cancer Diagnosis, Jase Faces a Deadly Inmate & Phil Appears in a Dream | Ep 870

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

Phil appears in the dream of a church sister who recently baptized 100 women at a prison, and Jase had his own tense prison experience where his life was undoubtedly threatened. Lisa directly addresses her cancer diagnosis and her reaction to it. The guys and Lisa discuss the revolution of prison ministry and how it all started with Watergate and President Nixon. Zach points out that people’s inherent value proves that God isn’t distant from us, and Jase likens the experience of parenthood to God’s relationship with his children. In this episode: Acts 12 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We got a full house. We're stacked in here like cordwood. We got Zach in the house, Jay's. I mean, like, we're not having to worry about him being late because he's here. You can tell you, no technical problems. You're sitting in the chair. You're here. You're here. You're to start this podcast. And we have Lisa. Zach, I've never asked you. I don't know. I feel like this is going to be a challenge.

What do you do? What do I do? What do you do? You're always over there on the edge, taking a little heat. I can't wait to hear this answer, actually. What do you do? What does a man do for a living? I work with people with very interesting personalities, and I try to wring them. It's the funniest question I've ever heard.

Interesting personalities. Interesting personalities. Most of them are Robertses. I don't know. What do you do? I import export, buy and sell. He's like Art Vandalat. He's in the import-export business.

That's funny. Well, I was going to tell you a funny story and a scary story to start the podcast. Oh, okay. You ready? I'm ready. The funny story is when I pulled up out into the, we can't call it a parking lot. In front of here? The area at which we parked deepened the woods.

And Zach got out. and had his son, and they walked by me as they were going into the layer. And I looked up and I thought to myself in the moment, who is that? You saw me? You walked by. You saw me. I was listening to worship music. He walked in.

And I thought, who's that? Who's that? So, Zach, you've had two things. Dad asked what you do. Jay's ask who you are. I don't feel like you all. Apparently, you need to come down here a little more. I just didn't recognize you in the moment.

It's been a while since. Did you not know I was coming in town? I'm sure someone told me, but. When I come in town, I make it a point to stop by and say hello. I don't drive by. This is the man that blows his horn on interstate a mile from where you live as a hello. Because it would have been too much trouble to take a. Yeah, who could get off that exit?

It would take two minutes to get to her. You're so bitter about that. It was an act. We're family. It was an act of greeting. It beats nothing. That's true. No, it doesn't.

It doesn't beat nothing because he didn't hear it. That's right. So it didn't beat anything. But he knew I... It just annoyed the person besides you. Now, he did call and tell me that he honked. He knew I did it. It's like, you know, you give someone a gift and then they don't like how it was wrapped or what was inside.

So I don't know. Well, I got out of the parking lot. That was a cheap gift. lot out here, but I stepped out of my truck, and I forget, I mean, it's like a bunch of bamboo with weeds grow. I mean, it looked like a snake fest out there. I don't know if it's kind of here. Yeah.

Exactly. This whole area is a snake thing. I know. I forgot. I mean, I've been gone from Louisiana for six years. Everything around where we're sitting will hurt you. Yeah. I just thought there's got to be a cotton.

I've been stung before on this set, so that tells you right now. So what's your scary story? Scary story was, I'm sure y'all were not. Although that's pretty scary that you don't even know your own cousin. No, that was funny. Yeah. The scary part was I feel like I'm free rolling now. So we're going to get some good material because on the way down here, right when I made the last turn, I looked up.

And there was one of these trucks that Phil has given an accurate description of it. It looked like a mad spider. Kind of all rare it up. Y'all passed this truck because you were behind me. But when I looked up, he was in my lane, going at a pretty rapid. Stay in your lane, bro. And so I started moving over in the three seconds that I thought I'm fixing to die. And he just kept coming.

He was not, I could tell he was looking down, but the truck was careening toward me. So I navigated out in front of Jimmy the Rednecks. Yeah. Empire. Yeah. Yeah. It's an empire there. I literally.

It's a Sanford and Son-esque ember. Went up against the fence. I went beyond off the road. Oh, all the way to Burley's. Because he was coming off the road on my lane. Actually, that would have been a good place to honk your horn. Yeah. There was no time for the horn honking.

Yeah, instead of at your cousin, right? Yeah, a mile away. Yeah, I just careened, bounced. And I wasn't going that fact. He never even saw you did it. I looked back and I saw it. And I saw a hand go up. And I think that was, I'm sorry.

My bad. I almost killed you. Is it that or raise a hallelujah? I don't know what that was. So it wasn't I get back on the road. I had to come to a full stop because I was fixing to hit Jimmy Redd's dump truck that was parked 20 yards. Well, the problem was living out in the middle of nowhere is that you're used to not have a lot of people on the road. So you get very loose.

So I noticed people on their phones, looking down, messing with their radio. because you can drift back and forth, and typically it doesn't bother you, unless someone's coming in the other way. Unless it does. I came this close. For the listeners, there's a quarter of an inch. Yeah, very small, quarter of an inch. Reference. It was a hit.

It's a size white. 12 o'clock at night. It just got off an airplane. Ms. Kay was with me. And we're in this lane, and here comes this lane, and we see this vehicle. This was a dramatic. They're coming out. Yeah, coming straight at me.

So I started slowing down. I told Ms. Kay, I said, hold on because they were just coming. Well, when they got about 10 feet or less, still coming, whoever it was, I don't know what they were doing, but they were just coming. Well, I just took a hard right like this, and they went like this, and they barely scraped my tail in in the vehicle. Actually hit your back tire. and they hit my back tire.

It went flat instantly, so I went down. But, but, and then they were, they must have just woke up. So they come back off of it and went by me. I couldn't chase them to say, look what you did to buy a truck. And you really didn't need to, Dad. You know, I think you're chasing people down days are over. You probably just had to let that go. Yeah, well, I'd let it go.

What's funny is, Dad, about that story. You've told it before, but I hadn't mentioned lately that mom, when Mom tells me the story, she says, well, I saved our lives last night. I said, what happened? She said, oh, we were on our way home. Your dad wasn't paying attention. And I said, Bill, there's a car in the other sheet. Oh, I paid attention when that car started coming out of their lane.

Mom took full credit for your. It was coming just like this. I did that. And David. We're having a reenactment if you're listening. They just barely raked me. The state troop would come up there in a few minutes. And he said, well, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't think I said, I don't know if he says, yeah, yeah, yeah. But they did try to get in a convenience store. And when dad came up to the store, they had just closed. He looked inside and the woman wouldn't open the door. And dad was like, I was telling her who I was. I said, Dad, you don't look like a guy who opened the door at midnight. At the convenience store. I said, let me borrow you.

I don't have a cell phone. I don't know one. So I had no way of contact. Luckily for her, luckily for you, she was calling 911 at the time with you walking up to the door. And I've not worked out. So I got to tell the story that I forgot to tell in the last podcast that one of our sisters at the church, Cherry Ann, her sister, Mindy, Mindy, Lancaster.

Yeah. Amazing story. She told her story. So these two, their dad is in prison for life for murdering their mom. He was convicted. This is like 25 or 30 years ago. So because they spent so much time to visit him in prison, they now do prison ministry. It's amazing.

So there's a women's prison about an hour from here. here. Well, this past week, they baptized a hundred women. Wow. And one night. I mean, they been going over and sharing and all of a sudden it was just revival in the prison. And so, so this sister, Jery Ann, she's telling me, Dad, that she, she said, we baptized so many people when I went home. She said, I was dreaming that I was still baptizing people in my dream. You know, she said, I just couldn't stop, I guess. And my hundred people is a lot of people to baptize. This is back first century. Yeah. She said, but in my dream, your dad comes up while I baptizing these women. And I said, my dad came up. She said, yeah. And he said, I heard about what

happened and I want you to baptize, I want you to baptize me. And she said, why? And he's, you said in her dream, well, I've always wanted to be baptized by a woman. I didn't know that was part of the story. That's what she told me. I was waiting on some kind of like significant. It wasn't me. But I got to. so tickled. I went to Angola, and we did preach the gospel. We did. I was with him. That's where her dad's at, right? The man who heads at, what's the main dog?

Where they came? Burl. Burl. Burl cane used to be the warden. He's not there anymore. He's in Mississippi now. Yeah. Amazing man who did an amazing job at Angola. So a lot of lifers were baptized over there. Well, they were piping dad into the death row. Yeah.

You know, everybody got it on the live feed. But I've said this before that. I'll say it again before we get to our text. the, you said, one of the best opening lines ever. And of course, we're in Angolan. We went through several doors clanging behind us to get where we were in this camp. And you said, you quoted Galatians, I think it's Galatians three, is it? The whole world's a prisoner of sin or three or four.

And you said, you read it. And then you looked up at the camera and you said, just because you're under locking key doesn't mean that you can't be free. That's right. That was his opening line. That's a good T-shirt. right there it is i was like what a line and then that whole world was a prisoner sin was his verse so it was quite the open it's so weird y'all talking about the prison ministry because i stumbled upon a

a pretty neat story last night i was studying for something else but you know how it goes oh we did have a prison story i didn't think i was i was tied in and didn't even realize it into our text today we have a prison story yeah the prison break exactly that i was studying about the prison break and one thing led to another so i'll go ahead and share this because I thought it was interesting. But are you familiar with Charles Colson? He's written a bunch of books. Yes, Chuck Colson.

Chuck, aka Chuck. I got Charles. Well, the people that know him well call him Chuck. His friends call him Chuck. He wrote a book with Nancy Piercy called How Then Shall We Live Now, which was kind of a very pivotal. He ran at the Colson Institute. So I looked at his story, I guess we're talking about the same guy. I'm not sure at this point.

I'm questioning if we are talking like to say. So this guy was a part of Watergate, and he was an advisor to Nixon. Nixon. And so, and was sentenced to a few months in prison for his role in that. And so, well, during that time, he came to the Lord. And so he gets sent off to prison. and what he learned between those two things of coming to the Lord and then being in prison is that he was he felt like he was called by God because he saw so much I guess the lack of

rehabilitation in the prison system it was kind of like you're here throw away the key these people are hopeless and so he became the most revolution person as far as faith-based prison programs that's ever been. And, you know, he died in 2012. But all the programs that he introduced, they're what we go by today. I mean, y'all were just sharing that story about all that. Well, a lot of this stuff that he paved the way for that. But I ran across an interesting quote, he said, because the, I think it was the Washington Post, where they were trying to make fun of him, of course, because they're a political organization.

And they were like, Charles Golson is actually saying that his conviction in Watergate turned out to be proof that God is real. Well, you know, I had to read the article. Yeah. What is this? So I want to read you the quote that spurned the article.

And this is the quote. I took a picture of it on my phone. I didn't, I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't planning on getting into this today, but y'all brought it up. And here's the quote. He says, I know the resurrection is a fact, and Watergate proved it to me. How? Question mark.

Because 12 men testified that they had seen Jesus raised from the dead. Then they proclaimed that truth for 40 years, never once denying it. And I would even add they went to their death. That's right. because of it. Every one of them was beaten, tortured, stone, or put in prison. They would not have endured that if it were not true. Watergate embroiled 12 of the most powerful men in the world,

and they couldn't keep a lie for three weeks. Just think about that statement and you get his point. They couldn't keep a lie for. for three weeks. So you see the point he's making. It's a brilliant point. It had to be true. It wasn't a lie. But anyway, the end quote of that is, you're telling me the 12 apostles could keep a lie for 40 years, absolutely impossible. And I would add to that, Washington Post missed the point. That's what they do that. They frame up something like that. Bizarre. These were Because they made it like he was defending water game.

He didn't defend it. He was defending the resurrection, but Jesus. It's a great point. You know what I found a travesty. Hang on before you do that, let's take a break. What I find a travesty in all this is when they looked at the statistics of the faith-based programs that he introduced. And he received numerous medals from, and awards from President Bush. I mean, later on in life, which always had a controversial angle to it because he was mixed up in Nixon.

and Watergate. But when you looked at the stats of what he introduced, and I looked at the current stats, so now when someone is released from prison, 66% of them, two-thirds, end up back in prison. But the ones that go through a lot of the faith programs that he introduced, well, two-thirds of those

did not come back. That's the opposite. It's just the opposite. And you think, no, why can't the world just step back and say, wait a minute, even if you don't embrace that there is a God and Jesus is the Christ and his argument about this, I think that is very profound about what the 12 apostles did, look at the facts. Look at the stats. Do we want to rehab people in prison or not? Which was Burrow Kane, the guy we were talking about earlier, his whole idea about Angola, take one of the worst. take one of the worst prisons in America.

And it was one of the worst. And it wasn't one of the worst. And then say, we want to bring Jesus in here in life change and see what we can do. Jason added on to that since Colson was around in his material, we've added CRI, which is Celebrate Recovery Inside, which now helps people get off of drugs. Yeah. Because drugs are still rampant in the prison system. So to get them off of drugs, and so when they go back out, you're taking motivation away to get back

into crime. So what you're seeing is life change, which then brings up. about not coming back to prison because people that live for Christ don't live in such a way that you wind up going to jail. So I went to Angola in a former life. Not as an inmate. Not as an inmate. This is back as a congressional candidate.

I did that one time, which was never again. We're glad you didn't win. Yeah, I'd glad I didn't win. But I went and toured Angola because it was part of the district here. And I had this incredible moment there, a couple of incredible moments. One is the fact that they have, I think in New Orleans, Biological Seminary, they're training pastors inside. Yeah, they have a satellite campus inside Angos. And they've ordained many.

Many pastors. And planted churches in other prisons around Louisiana. They have churches that they've built, physical buildings and churches that they've established inside of Angola. We met him. It's just like, and you're looking at this and you're like, man, this is incredible. They have this community thing going on. And at one moment I was standing there, I may have told this story on the podcast, I can't remember.

I'm standing there with, it wasn't Warden Kane. It was a, it was war, I was sorry, I can't remember her name. But we're standing there. It's me and this probably 110 pound lady. And then no guards. And we're at the, where they have the horses and everything. And there's probably 35 inmates doing different things. And I'm like, I felt really safe, but there was no guards.

And I was like, hey, what are these all? kind of the petty thief criminals. What are all these guys in here for? So most of these guys here, she's looking around. She said, yeah, most of these guys are in here for murder.

Because it's our, it's our maximum prison. Yeah. And so I'm looking at it. And I was like, it was just the weirdest feeling that I felt safe in there was no guards. And I was like,

where are the guards? Oh, no, these guys are awesome. Like these are like, but it was because the programs that you mentioned that most of these guys had gone through.

It changed their life. They had changed their life. They had a mechanic. program that all of the lot of this stuff was faith-based and one of the guys in the mechanic shop there he's like look he said you get in here for life man he said you start looking for purpose and and he started just sharing the gospel with me and talked about how he didn't have a father growing up and he didn't have someone to told him the truth about Jesus he said but now he said you know what I got about five sons in here young guys have come in here I'm I'm in here the rest of my life so I'm

to be a father to these young men that they didn't have, and I'm going to tell them about Jesus. I mean, I was like, tear and up thinking, man, like, there's like kingdom work going on and here. I had the same moment there when we drove by, because this is a huge. I mean, this is how many thousands of acres this whole. Oh, it's an apparatus. It's big. Yeah. And there's a cemetery down there. And I drove by that cemetery with all those crosses out there. And as I drove by, I thought, man, this really was the final place for so many people in here, because they're there for

life. And of course, there are also people are executed there. And I thought, if you can't get it right here, this is your last jump at all place. I mean, of course you have, this is your last shot. You're not going to get back out into most of those guys into society. So you got to make it right. Yeah, I had a similar story. I've shared this before, but it was probably 700 podcasts ago. But, uh, so I spent two years at the pea farm up here, Wistow Perish P farm. And, uh, but my, So you were an inmate? Was this when you broke into that? No, I was coming in.

Was this when you tried to rob that bank? As a minister of the gospel. That's the funny part. Y'all, y'all wouldn't let that breathe. Let the joke breathe. And I went in voluntarily, but I had a different take because you said, oh, I felt safe and I didn't feel safe because I went through two mechanical doors. and I looked around the first time I went in

and I was like, are y'all coming with me, the guards? And they're like, oh, no, we're not going in there. You're on your own. You want to do this. There's dangerous people of it. So I didn't feel safe. But, you know, and it led to some weird, tough moments. You know, we finally had a guy come in who had been abused his whole life.

You could tell. Yeah. He would take soap. He looked like. some kind of a mummy from a weird movie because he would put this soap all over him. So it was like a paste. He did it every time.

So it was just like crackling off the whole time. And so one day he'd heard enough and decided, you know, he was going to kill me. And he basically stood up and was like, you know, I've heard enough. And so we just, I looked around like, guard. But it just, he would have been tough to battle because he would have been very slippery too, too. Yeah, I just realized there's no one coming. And I was like, I get it.

You're, you know, I'm sharing the truth of God. I'm sharing Jesus with him. You've been abused. You've been tortured. You've made bad decisions. You've reacted unfavorably. You've ended up here. And, you know, the two worlds that we live in, our father from heaven,

who's good and holy and then you have the remember when jesus and john 80 said you belong to your father the devil you know he's a liar and a murderer and i was like that that's the world we live in here and so you're wanting to take out the messenger what have i done besides love you i'm not getting i wouldn't get paid to be out here you know i'm doing this because i'm like this this is this is your answer this is your option but anyway but i was like look if you if you're going to kill me you know let's do it quickly or sit down and listen you know listen to it to what i'm trying to share but fortunately he didn't but he was threatening me and uh but in the moment i was scared i mean i thought well you know if this is how i go down this is how i go down but i've i've chosen to be here

with very violent men who are in here most of them were in there for murder and and luckily you know fortunately providentially he didn't kill me but but i just thought in my mind when you said that you said i felt safe i thought there were moments i did not feel safe but i just thought either we're going to do this or we're not yeah and that really does set up where we're going to be in our text in acts chapter 12 because um last the last podcast is where we left off we just started intro in that it was one of the reasons why i asked lisa to be on the podcast today because of where we ended our discussion let's take a break before we get it to. I don't even remember where we ended our discussion. So let's review. That's why you had me here.

It seemed like a lifetime ago. And that's why you had me. So we get to this point in Acts 12. And last time we set up kind of the political landscape with this King Herod. And he is now, because it is advantageous to his rule, which most politicians are like this, decides that he's going to get after Christians. He's going to double down. And so he kills James, one of the sons of fundraising. James and John from so he's the first Apostle the first of the of the ones who witnessed the resurrection with Jesus to be killed and so he's martyred and so the because people love it so when he saw in verse 3 of chapter 12 this pleased the Jews he proceeded to seize Peter also so he's taken Peter and he's put him in jail and as we mentioned before he uh the reason he

did that was because he's going to kill him. But he can't kill him for eight days because it's at the beginning of the Feast of Unleavened bread and you've got the Passover's after that. So they can't do any trial. So we're in like an eight day delay of Peter being in prison. So at the end of our discussion, Jace, we were talking about this thing about why, you know, why does James get martyred here, but Peter does it? Because he's going to, you know, he's going to break out here supernaturally, which we'll read later in the text. But it led us to one of those really. kind of, I call it cornerstone discussions about Christianity of why do bad things happen to some people but not others. And it put us kind of into that big question because look, everybody's out

there listening is going through something, you know, and so people are praying, do I get delivered, do I have to go through a battle? So I mentioned before on a previous podcast that Lisa and I found out that she has breast cancer. And so like that's a, that's something you hear. You obviously don't want to hear that. You know, I just had a month earlier. They thought maybe I had prostate cancer. Well, I didn't. You get that call and they say, everything's negative. You're good. We'll see you in six months. You're like, ooh, okay, thank you, Lord. And you just kind of rock on your life. But then you get the call, she gets the call that says it's positive. Yeah. And we're both husband and wife. We're both believers. One of us got the all clear. One of us didn't. So, but we still

battle this together. So one of the reason I wanted to have your homebed was to be able to just tell the audience how you felt about that and now as a woman of faith because that's exactly where we are in this text this the church is undergoing this terrible persecution and difficulty and you know what did you how did you feel about it I mean tell the audience because I know they want to know because they're concerned about you well I think at first it was unbelief it was like you know maybe they've made a mistake but you know there was then I had further testing done and there was no mistake. But, you know, my initial thing was, well, why not me? I mean, I have so many friends that this has happened to, people in the church, you know, people all across the world that this

has happened to. So why not me? And one of the things that I want to say about that, and in the pro-life ministry, we talk about the, you know, the lies. that, you know, the pro-abortion people tell. One of those lies is that, you know, that abortion, it has no consequences to your body, to your mind. I mean, you know, it's just like, it's just one of those things. It's just like, you know, something that happens. And it's so not true because I've told before those three lies that they told me.

But one of the things that the pro-life people talk about now is that there is a greater chance for women who have had abortion to have breast cancer. And the reason being is... Like a 34% increase. Yeah. And this is something you'll never hear in this discussion about women's health. That's exactly right. But it's true. And one of the reasons why that is is because whenever you become pregnant, your body starts.

producing cells to feed your child. So in a woman, that food comes from the breast. And whenever you have an abortion, those cells don't go anywhere. They're still there. They're laying dormant in your body. Whenever you have, you know, like you've miscarried or something, your body flushes those cells. Because it's natural. Because it's a natural thing. But your your body does not flush it whenever you have an abortion. So I don't know, probably for three years whenever I've been doing speeches, I've been talking about that. That, you know, another lie they don't tell you is that, you know, women who have had abortion have a greater risk at having breast cancer. And so whenever I first learned that I had this, I thought, well, it makes sense.

I mean, why not me? I am one of those. people, you know. And then I had another friend say, oh, but it's not your fault. You don't, you don't feel responsible for this, do you? And I was like, no. I mean, I know where cancer comes from. It comes from the evil one, you know? So no, that's right. So I said, no, I don't feel, I don't feel like it's my fault. I don't feel guilty. I don't feel any of that stuff. But at the same time, I feel like this is just another part of my story that God is going to help me to bless other people with, you know? Because after I go through this, look, I'm telling everybody,

you know, you got to get checked, you got to do this, you got to, because I don't want anybody to have to go through this. But they found mine, I found it actually, I felt it. We found it very early. And of course, I'm not out of the woods yet. I haven't even had surgery. So they don't really know the extent of everything that's in there. This is just from their preliminary things. But, you know, why not me? And I think if we thought about that more, if we thought about, okay, so I've got this, now what am I going to do with it? What is my, I think your reaction is the most important thing whenever you have somebody say, well, you have cancer. So what is your reaction. Well, then I'm going to praise God. Missy Williams told me, she said, I grew the most in my

joy during my struggle with breast cancer. And I thought, okay. So it's not something you look forward to, but I'm looking forward to growing in my walk with Jesus. It's kind of cliched, but you always say at the darkest times or when light is needed the most. And I think when you walk through something like this, that's when the light shines the brightest. And so people have been there for us, which has been amazing. I mentioned John 9 last time Jesus said that when they said, why does something like this happen? He said, so that God would be glorified. And I realize when you're walking through it, it's hard to see that glory. But I'm telling you when you do it, it's amazing because God gets the glory no matter what. And that makes the resurrection and all this

so important. James, the reason that that sword went across his neck and he's sacrificed his life and never gave up on the resurrection, Jace, which you mentioned this at the beginning of the podcast, is because he believed he's going to be resurrected. So they can't take, they can't ultimately take you out. So I think that's where Peter is in this because he's so calm going into this setting.

Yeah. Well, I think that's part of the argument that we make. Because when you think, what is the biggest argument against God and faith? I would say it's probably the problem of suffering and evil in the world. Especially children, innocent people who say it all the time, right? You know, but even these arguments are so convoluted. And like Lisa said, they're full of lies.

I remember a famous quote from, I think it was Darwin, who said basically, I don't remember the exact quote, but it's either luck or just random chance. There's no good and evil. But then in the next breath, he said, but if there was a God, why would he allow evil? And so when you kind of think about that, you're like, well, wait a minute, you don't believe there's good or evil. But now you're saying- You recognize God.

You recognize, well, there's evil. I thought there was no good or evil. Why would God let this happen? Which goes to the point of bad things are going to happen, and we're all moral beings. there you know we believe we're created in god's image but i think what separates jesus from every other religion two things one is it's not based on your performance to attain god's approval that that separates jesus apart from everybody because everybody else has a list that's a big separation it's a huge separation but i think the other thing in this context is

because everyone is like, well, why is, if there's a God, why is he so distant from suffering and pain? And you're like, well, just take the image of Jesus on a cross. And you realize that what's different about Jesus than all these other religious leaders is he became a part of suffering. He suffered. And through that suffering brought salvation to the world. Exactly. It was through the evil and the worst thing you could possibly imagine. Yeah, so to just flippantly say, my point is to flippantly say, oh, he's so disdivist,

you know, why would he like, oh, he became a part of it. So don't make that chasm. He's not distant. Yeah, and then you get into passages like Hebrews 4, that he's not unable to sympathize with our weaknesses. I thought about Hebrews 218, because he himself. suffered when he was tempted, he was able to help those who are being tempted. So it's the same thing as that idea of example. Let's take a little.

Yeah, I mean, you brought up to kind of the apologetic on it, which was always fascinating to me that if you say, and it is the number one objection. I mean, I think any Christian apologist will tell you if you said, if you ask them the question, what is the number one objection to people coming to faith in Christ? They're going to say, or belief in God, they're going to say the problem of evil or the problem of suffering, which is the same thing, right? That if there is a God, then why would there be so much evil and suffering in the world? Surely a good God would not allow that. So there must not be a God. And then, but think about what that statement says. You're actually testifying that there is such a thing as evil.

And so then that moves you into another argument in apologetics, which is called the moral argument for God's existence, which says, well, if there's no God, there's no such thing as, evil or bad or good, everything. That's the whole, in a naturalistic worldview, if naturalism is true and there is no God, then really there's nothing that gives me any more value than this bottle of water right here. I had a guy at my house when we lived here in college ministry, and he was a young Buddhist, which was the only Buddhist I had ever really shared my faith with until now. We were sitting there, and he said, I think everything you guys are talking about is just a load. I mean, this is ridiculous.

He said, there's no, what you're saying is not true. And he had talked about his brother's experience in church, and he had been, for a lot of different reasons, had been discriminated against and whatnot. I said, yeah, but you realize that your worldview is not attainable. You can't live this out. And he said, well, yeah, I'm living it out. I said, but you're not living it out. He said, I'm living it out.

And I had a cup, just like that one by Phil, it's a red solo cup, was sitting right next to me and I just took that thing and I just cranked it. I'm just broke, just tore it apart and threw it on the ground. And I said, do you get a problem with that? He said, with what? I said, with what I just did? He said, what did you just do? I said, did you see what I did to the cup? He's like, well, I'm not following you. I said, does that bother you? He said, no, why would that bother me? I said, what if I did that to your brother? Would it bother you then? He's like, well, yeah. I said, why? He said, because it's my brother. Like, you can't treat people that way. And I said, yeah, but if your worldview is true, it's all part of the cosmic forward.

We're all, it's all one. There's no distinguishing factor between that Red Solo Cup and your brother. And then the same thing is true in a materialistic worldview. If all that exists is matter, that cup is matter, your brother's matter.

What gives your brother any really intrinsic value over that? Nothing. Everything that happens as a result of a prior state of physical events. There's no like will, free will, there's no meaning.

There's no, it's no purpose to anything. They want to take part of it and then not apply the, But as soon as you say, as soon as you say, wait a second, that's wrong. Well, hold on a second. According to what? See, that's your standard. That's evil.

Yeah. Oh, that's not good. Cancer's bad. Why is it bad? Why is cancer bad? And everybody knows it's bad. Yeah. But the reason why we know it's bad is because we're testifying to the God who is there.

And we're saying that it's bad because my wife or in this case, my cousin, you have value. You know, and I heard about it, I cried. I prayed for you guys because I'm like, Like, that scares me, you know what I mean? I love you, love you guys. Y'all have been a huge part of my life. That says you have value that's beyond matter. And so the thing that, so it turns out that the accusation that God's not there because

evil and suffering are there, you're actually testifying that he is there because there wouldn't be such thing as evil if God's not there. Yeah. So you can't escape him. And it's interesting because you just put it in the context of where we are here. Because in verse 5, it says, so Peter was kept in prison, but the, the church was earnestly praying for him. And it's really interesting because right in that context,

they bring in a weapon because they understand spiritual warfare. Which happened with y'all. You had, how many sisters do you have come around you that had? Oh, immediately we're getting calls and people and sharing their life experiences and saying, come over here. Let me tell you what happened to me. So we can make sense of when bad things happen. That's the difference.

The person who can't make sense of it is the one that says, why me? I shouldn't get something this bad, and there must not, so I can't make sense of it. And I don't turn to spiritual weapons. It's interesting that the church immediately rallies to Peter's defense by praying for him. And you think, well, how stupid is that? What could they possibly accomplish by getting together in a house a half a mile away and praying for this guy? Well, what they accomplished was is a miraculous escape.

And the prayer was part of it because that's the first place he went to. And to Jason's point, that testifies that God is a lot. involved. He's not distant. Exactly. He's getting involved. Well, I think, I think what we do that that is not good is we look at God from one perspective and then we look at ourselves from another. And here's my point. Why do we have kids? Because in that moment, you're taking a risk that's out of your control. They may grow up and hate your guts or do something terrible. Or something may all, we may not, something may happen to them. All human beings know this deep down in their mind.

They may not be thinking about it when they're in the process of making the kid. Probably not. But subconsciously, I think if you then applied that to why God made us the way he did, knowing that these bad things are going to happen, it was a risk he was willing to take because then it comes down to love and sharing life with someone. Same thing about getting married. Because it crossed my mind. I thought when I say I do with this woman, I'm giving myself to a point emotionally where

what if something happens to her? Yeah. And, you know, that was very difficult for me because I thought I'm opening myself up here to be hurt. And so, and even when we had my daughter, which is why I was kind of going down that philosophical argument. But I think a part of this is we're talking about the theological. and apologetics of it.

Meanwhile, there's people that are going through suffering. I'm sure there's been children die since we started this podcast in the globe. I mean, there are some real pain out there that's going on. But when I had my daughter, who was diagnosed with having this cranial facial issue, in the womb, we could see it. And I was like, Lisa, my first response, well, that can't be right. I mean, because in my mind, I'm like, well, I love the Lord. I love my wife.

I love my baby. This can't be right. This doesn't. Two and two does not equal we have a problem. Yeah. It was so out of my control. And unfortunately, probably because of my immaturity, it took me four months to say the same phrase that Lisa said, which is why not me? Because the first four months, I was saying, well, why is this happening?

I mean, this is, and Missy and I were bickering back and forth, you know, because the problem became real. Yeah, yeah. And so, but it's a risk that subconsciously I should have known. God doesn't have a chart up there. I thought about this in perspective of Jesus, where he's like doing every little thing in our life as in breathing and I'm tired and I need to take a nap. So God's up there and got everybody on a chart. I mean, granted, he knows what's going to happen. But it's not that deep into it.

30 minutes ago, I could have died. I literally could have died if I was not paying attention. A guy, I didn't tell that story because I knew we were going here. But I'm just thinking, I literally almost lost my life 30 minutes ago. And we'd be having a different conversation right now. Just so you know, we would have postponed the podcast. I appreciate that. Let's take another break. I think what happens in a lot of theological discussions is we conflate God's sovereignty with determinism, and those are not the same thing.

You know, I mean, like... Right, now you're getting a little deep for me now. Well, but God being sovereign does not... Well, the determinism is... Yeah, I don't believe that Scripture teaches. Well, Phil told me, Phil said the only isms that he believes in is capitalism and baptism. So that was not one of those. I don't believe in it either. That's my point.

I don't think that, like, I think God has given humans free will. And mainly to your point, you know, I don't know if I say it's a risk on this part. I think God in his sovereignty does, like, know what we're going to choose. But God is a relational God. He is a, so he doesn't, he's, I don't think the Bible teaches that he's forcing his creatures into relationship with him. I think that God wants all of those who would freely come to him to come, and he's provided away for that in Jesus. But I think that's where this discussion goes.

But another aspect of this that I think is important when you think about the entrance of suffering into the world. Like when did suffering enter the world in Genesis, chapter 3, when Adam Neves sin for the first time is when the earth was cursed and God said curse be the ground that you work. You're going to work it by the sweat of your brow. it's going to create thorns and thistles for you to the woman. He said you're going to increase your pain and childbearing, and there's the whole conflict between husband and wife and headship and all that.

And all this complexity enters the world when Adam and Eve sin for the first time. Their eyes are open and they realized that they were naked. Well, they were also separated from that tree of life, which then brought death into the equation. Exactly. And think about the tree of life. That was my point. So there's the the cherubims, which we mentioned in the last. podcast about the empty tomb, had the two angels there that, you know, but they, they guarded that, that entrance to the tree of life. The question is, why would God do that? And the reason is, I think, I think this is true. I think the reason why God, I think even that is an act of grace on

God's part. He, God could not allow his creatures to exist autonomously from him. That actually, the definition of existing autonomously away from God, that, the biblical the biblical word for that, to be out of the presence of the Lord and exist. You know what that is? It's hell. So to allow humans to stay in that state, it would have been God allowing us to live in hell

or making us live in hell. So the reason why he blocked that tree off was actually an act of grace. So when we think about sin and pain and suffering entering into the world, that's a result of not being connected to the tree of life. But even that is an act of grace.

Because to live in my own, will and my own autonomy, not under his kingdom, not under his reign and his rule, away from his presence. As much as I might think I want that to actually experience that would be held. Well, and I love the idea that Jace brought up about the idea of value and realizing every relationship in your circle is so valuable. And that's the way I was when I heard with Lisa. My first prayer was, Father, help me be faithful in the fight. Because, you know, we're fighting this thing, but I want to be faithful, and because I love her so much, but I opened myself up to that risk a long time ago. There was a young couple that found out their baby in the womb,

had something that probably wouldn't survive the pregnancy, but for sure wouldn't live long once the baby was born. And so they were like, well, just take the opportunity for pain away, just go ahead and do an abortion now. But instead, they said, oh, you don't understand. We value our baby so much. Every day, they prayed, they sang together while the baby was in the womb. And then when the baby was born, sure enough, within 60 hours that baby passed away. But they said the time we had, we had those eight months and then we had those few hours was so valuable. And I thought, that's how you look at life instead of just something we discard.

I think from a biblical. One thing I've noticed about the human race and one thing follows them 90% tears. Yeah. They hear a story. Let all Israel be assured of this, God has made this Jesus whom you crucified. This is at the front end of the book of Acts, both Lord and cry. When the people heard this, here's my point, they were cut to the heart. I watch it over and over and over, and when I'm standing in the water with them, all they've heard,

I've never seen them before in my life. but when they hear about what God did through Jesus and his death on the cross and his resurrection, 90% tears flow. I'm not a guy trying to get tears out of them, I just noticed that when they're standing there and they're fixing to die to sin and be buried, the old you'll be gone,

and you're fixing to be filled with the Holy Spirit of God, which guarantees you'll live forever. Resurrection. So I said, that's riding on it. I wanted to make a... And look, the tears are always there. I just never noticed it until a few years back. But I said, they all cry.

Why they cry? Life. I was going to make a point, though. I think what helps us when we think about the idea of pain and suffering and Jesus' work in the miracles, I thought about that statement in Acts 934, when Peter, the guy had been paralyzed for eight years, he said, Jesus Christ heals you. Well, the backdrop of all the miraculous.

and all the healings and all what Jesus did and does, is that he's alive. You couldn't make that statement if he was dead. And so when you think about why the number one subject that they highlighted in the book of Acts was the resurrection of Jesus, what we view as the uttermost pain and suffering of the world in the context of death is not a problem from God's perspective,

makes you then understand, oh, well, it's not as bad as I thought if these babies who die are going to live forever. That's right. And so I do think the resurrection is the foundation for which all of the supernatural powers and miracles have to be in context of. We have something greater than whether you get a miracle or not in this situation that we're talking about. one is rescued one is not but the resurrection of jesus is the backdrop he's alive yeah so uh next time we get back to this text we'll actually get into how secure peter was in that uh continue to pray for us at least i appreciate all you guys and your support my my ask for prayers is uh faithfulness in the fight so that's what we ask for so anyway we'll see you next time on unashamed thanks for listening to

the unashamed podcast help us out by rating us on iTunes and don't miss an episode so by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to blazed TV at blazestivet.com slash unashamed.