Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 871 | Jase Apologizes to For King & Country for Assuming Their Movie Would Be Cheesy

Episode Date: April 17, 2024

Joel and Luke Smallbone of the band For King & Country and their sister Rebecca St. James talk about their autobiographical film “Unsung Hero,” which details their childhood move from Australia to the United States, the unforeseen circumstances that led to the family of nine facing poverty, and the children's rise to being two of the most successful musical acts in the world of Christian music. Jase is forced to apologize for assuming that the movie would be a typically cheesy Christian movie, but he finds himself absolutely loving it! Al can’t help but see the similarities between their own difficult past and the incredible journey of the Smallbone family. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So anytime we have Zach in person, I always know that something's happening, something big Zach, because, Jase, you didn't even know Zach was coming down here. No. And then I didn't recognize it. And then you didn't recognize it. When he walked by my truck. So Zach is here today, which we're glad. It's always good to have Zach in studio.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And so we have, the reason Zach is. here is because he is he's lined up some guests today to be on our podcast and and you know it's amazing people ask me all the time what's the best thing about like having a TV show and you know being out there and people know who in you are because there's some downside to that but the positive upside for me always is the same thing the people we get to meet yeah in the journey and so today we've got some special guests coming on to talk about a new project but zach i don't know how

you ran up on this or how you plan this but i mean you this is a big deal for our podcast. We got some... That started with the blind. Yeah. And I think that... Which was a movie about our family. Does everybody know what that is?

Have we ever talked about that on this podcast? I still haven't figured out the name. But go ahead. I don't know whether it's blind or... Yeah. Well, that's me. Give me some brush. Dad, it's a movie about your life.

How did you take the blind? Did you think that meant you or what you did? There was a lot of confusion in the air. Well, we said this before. It's a double entendre. Get the crickets out, but it's a double entendre. But yeah, so I think this is, so the folks sort of coming on, they did a movie that's coming out really soon. I don't know when this you probably should know.

April 26th. April 26th. And it's about their family story. So it was, and it was an in-house deal. So they actually produced it themselves. Very similar to ours. Very similar. And I have a funny story before we bring them on.

because I'm sure they're terrified because they're out here. They're out waiting. I did think about that when I walked in. I was like, they think they're coming to a podcast set, but they're going to be able to. Well, people that come out here think maybe

if they brought me out here to kidnap me or kill me, because we'll find out what they're like. Which is my point. I remember as a young Christian, when I read Acts 1-8, and when Jesus said, look, you'll be my witnesses starting in Jerusalem,

and then in all Judea and Samaria, and then that last phrase, and to the uttermost ends of the earth. I thought that's fair right. That's me. Because I've always viewed that we're like the uttermost ends of the earth. But then I also felt like these people, they're from Australia, which is embarrassing because, and I do want to talk to them about that, I thought they were from England.

Well, we can talk about that once we get here. But the funny. You're going to step into it right off the bat. The funny part of this is, because. I just view where we're at right now as the uttermost ends of the earth. When I looked up, I looked up the Greek translation of that. Oh, yeah. And what I found is, do you know what the word is?

Because I want to apologize to Zach, not that I agree with him, but at least I see where he comes from. I like where we're going with this. The word for the ends of the earth is eskato. Hmm. Now, eschatology is, you know, this word. you brought in times yeah but you took a word that was it was talking about the ends of the earth not not what's going to happen next that's the worst apology i've ever heard but at least but at least i apologize but you're still wrong yeah that isn't an apology at least i understand where the word

eschatology now came from even though you totally took it out of context or somebody else did but it was just talking about you know what does it says to the ends of the earth that was the word eschatel. I thought that was amazing. So we're not going to tell you who they are until they come on. I just want to say one thing. I accept your apology. You're welcome. Except it wasn't one. Dad's going to go do some work on the land because we're adding multiple guests to our tables. When we come back, we've got some very special people from Australia to introduce you to. Your family, they're not in the way. They are the way.

There's no food. They're almost out of money. We need to make some changes. Kids, we need help. This is everything we have and sometimes it's going to grow and sometimes it will shrink but it cannot be allowed to disappear. I wonder if she's right. Maybe I'm not meant to sing or maybe you're not meant to sing other people's songs. It's going to be dangerous and scary and giving up, giving in it's not an option. Whatever your dream is, I know you can achieve it. Welcome, my big sister. My dream is to be like you.

It always has been. So I told you we had a big thing coming. Zach, Zach, who are your guests? Yeah, they're not from England. Jay thought you guys are from England. Thank you for clarifying that. I've already messed this up for King and Country. Because last night I was telling Missy King in Country.

She said, four. Praise God. Thank you. Is that why you thought we were, Is that why you thought we were English? I did. I thought you were from England, because I saw the name. I said, that's an English slogan.

That's right. That's right. Well, we don't like the English. A mantra. We were their convicts, you know. They sent us all down to Australia. We got something in common here. That's why we love Australian so much.

Exactly. So it's Joel, it's Luke, it's Rebecca. And so we're so glad to have you guys on the Unashamed podcast. And I got to ask you, I ask everybody that's a guest on our podcast. So when you were driving out here and you got here and you looked at the setup and you're waiting outside because we were finishing to have another podcast, what did you think? What was your thought process about you're here, you're here to do a podcast? I'm sure you guys do media. Guarded my witness, as we were driving in, I literally thought this feels and looks like the Australian Outback.

There you go. A little bit. I felt it. I felt it at home. See, I'm feeling better already. The preview of y'all coming in, we did a little preview just to create drama. and I quoted, I actually read it, Acts 1 8, because when I was a new Christian, when I read that Jesus said, you're going to be my witnesses starting in Jerusalem, Samaria, throughout all Judea, and then it said, and to the uttermost ends of the earth.

Oh, yeah. Yes, I'm in. That was a statement when you're like, he's including Louisiana. He's including us. We can get in on this. We felt like it was Australia as we were driving in. When we pulled up, that's the difference. That's a good story.

So Joel's a little bit of a city slicker, he was like, certain death. Yeah. He's like, certain death is happening. Those amphibious vehicles in there? Yeah, yeah. This is a whole thing, guys. Luke and I feel at home, though, because both of us live in the country. Yeah, I mean, you were telling us.

We were telling us. I fit right in. We got side by sides. I own a tractor. He has cows? I got 11 cows. Luke has a bull named nuts. You know?

That's a good name for a bull. That's true. That's because he's crazy. That's true. So anyway. That's what they tell their kids anyway. I think we're going to get along. We're going to get along.

Really, really well. Swimmingly. And I got to ask you, Rebecca, right at the back, because I related to you, we're going to talk about the film because you guys are here because of this amazing film that we've all watched recently. But you're the oldest of these siblings, correct? Seven, oldest of seven. Oldest of seven. I'm the oldest of our five. And so how hard is it to be like the wisest, the wisest, the, you?

most trusting the one that takes care of everybody out. The third parent? Yeah, yeah. What's it like to be that second parent in this family of year or so? Because that's my role. Well, hopefully I outgrew the bossy big sister role because I know that, you know, that's the role. That's the role I lived for quite a while.

But I think we've become really good friends since then. But yeah, Luke still remembers the look. What was the look? Yeah, the look of shame, you know, like you got in trouble because, you know, she was looking after her. She was like babysitting or whatever. and then so if you misbehaved with Beck she would report back to mom and dad

she put a check against your name. And so then we had this list on the fridge. On the fridge. It was like you misbehaved once you got a tick against your name. That's what we would say, right? And if you got to like three or four, it was like there was going to be like parent,

there was going to be an intervention that was taking place. Which we were all okay with. The thing that annoyed the, you know, whatever out of us was when she would be in the corner and she would give you the look of shame. And it was just this. Maybe while the punishment.

was happening, like, you knew better than that, right? You're shaking. Just looking in the corner. Come on. Come on. Yeah. I was right. That's me.

You were wrong. You're younger than me. How day you misbehaved. But anyway, I've been to therapy and things. We're good. Yeah. It's all healed. Well, the difference probably you and me, Rebecca, is that I would, like, do things to set up

scenarios where they would get into trouble. Oh. Because there was a certain, like, mischievous part of me that enjoyed seeing the punishment. He was the God brother. Yeah. I'll make them on offer they can't refuse What's the age difference between you two? So there's four between us

Jason's second in line And then Willie and then Jeb And Phyllis' in between us What's amazing is we fought terribly As a kid My parents, you know, they were new Christians We lived out of here They were trying to figure out how to make a dollar

And I just never remember them being around Like the first 16, 17 years of my life Much But he was around He was there pushing all the buttons Right I always tell people

You've seen our television show So you know I did a terrible job At Raisin' them You know for those absent years But we fought I mean physically Yeah And now we're all

Best friends Yeah we were verbal We weren't much for like The throwing the punch But we would throw some verbal jabs And Luke and I didn't get on Yeah So I'm the deprived middle child

Oh boy you're like Jay Yeah that's what we get on, Chase Yeah, oh, thanks so And yeah, we didn't Luke's younger than me He's a better sportsman, better singer Taller, he got taller

And so I just resented him For it It was actually the band that sort of brought us together It is And I will say this actually To the families and folks And parents that are listening You do sit there and think

Okay, I've got four or five kids I got four, Courtney and I got four kids And you sit there and there's rivalries that start And you're like And they're always gonna be like that for the rest of their life and there's something that seems to happen between like 17, 18, 19 and 20 where you go, oh like my brother actually has got my back. Oh yeah. You know, my brother actually

has, you know, he wants the best for me. Now, it doesn't mean you just still don't bicker and you still don't have some disagreements. But that's been one of the things that's been wonderful about actually coming from a big family is when you get all, when you get over your slight differences and you actually become a unit or even embrace your differences. Yeah. It's sort of a nice flavor. It's been a wonderful thing because we're the same. Like, all my family, they're my best friends in the world, you know. Luke, you know what I have to say about that? What?

He's embraced. Where's yours? No, I stole it. I stole it. Sorry. I found the instant audience. See, they got the crickets. You guys are giving applause.

They get applause. See how much positive. All bones are. That's funny. We have to keep an eye on you. It's so funny. We just met out there and he was like, what do you think? You know, about my wardrobe.

And I was like, this is not going to work for the woods. Well, I thought we were podcasting today. I didn't know we were going to hunt. For the 10% listening, if we're going to take you hunting and ride on the amphibious vehicles. I want you to know, our producer, Josh Walsh, who produced Unsung Hero, he got dressed up for the hunt today. He's blending in so much with the wood paneling. You can't even see him. Yeah.

And he's got a good beer, too. Yeah. Yeah, he came with a beard, which is so. Beards are good here. I actually did shave for you today too, Jace. Yeah. But he probably shouldn't have, right? I shouldn't have.

Because when in Rome, he should have a beard. Well, it's a waste of money, time. I can grow a beard. Waste of your life, right? I feel like I need to validate myself now. He had a beard for the movie. That's right. I went kangaroo hunting once upon a time in Australia.

So I can hunt. Right. I can grow a beard. Yeah. I could be Robertson. So kangaroo hunting is a thing there? It's a thing. There's so many.

There's so many of them. Do they eat pretty good? Well, they eat people's crops. We usually feed them with the dogs. Yeah, it's been saying because I don't, yeah. I mean, I think. Oh, people are offended now, Luke. It's like Bambi.

It's like Bambi for Americans. Remember, this is the unsamedous. You're good here. You don't have to worry about offended. Oh, well. So I want to ask you a question before we get to the movie, because the movie, I've got so many things I want to ask about the movie. And I know Jason's act do.

But I want to. ask you about the music side of it first because you obviously were first in and the movie does a great job of showing that but how much did that influence what you guys do because you guys are you're a family but also since you were first and it's almost like you have your own big thing before these guys didn't have a big thing so how did that influence each other i'm just really curious about that because the movie doesn't it is with you going in but not these guys obviously yeah so the movie ends with me at a festival in 93 Creation Festival, one of my first bigger festivals. And the boys are singing background vocals in that. Our brother, Ben, is running video. Our brother Daniel's running

lights. Josh is probably floating a little bit because he was pretty young at that point, but he now manages the boys. Libby, our sister, has been involved too in various ways with the family. So you kind of see the setup for us working together. But that's what has. happened. They continued in those various roles and they really were so ingrained in doing these shows around the world that it was just second nature. It was almost like when God had the green light, you know, it's go time for them. They were just ready to hit the ground running and it was a skyrocket real fast because they were prepared and they weren't intimidated by the big stages. They'd done all of that. The simple answer is that no Rebexon James, no for King country.

Like I would go as far as to say, we're sort of a legacy band of what she did. Because she not only is the oldest sibling, but, you know, she started when she was 15. Luke and I started when he was 19, I was 21. She was alone as a young lady. We had each other. So she really, and as the film depicts, we didn't have any money. And it was really through Rebecca's time as a musician that we were able to financially sort of dig ourselves out of poverty level. Right.

You know. And that's with all of us pitching in. That's not just one of us. The visual that I always get about this question is, you know, when you're on the beach and you've got those, you know, maybe there's a storm coming in, you've got big waves. And if you're trying to get off of the beach, you've got to have someone break a wave to get through. And I think Beck was one that kind of broke a wave for us to come right behind. And the waters were a little smoother for us. That's right.

That's what I would say. Now, I was really curious about that. Let's take our first break. Now, let's talk about the movie. Well, I've already confessed to y'all before we started. because they were like, you need to watch this movie we're having for King and Country on.

Missy said it, right? She was like trying to drag you to the movie. Yeah, she had already seen it and I had declined because she didn't say what... But she didn't know you declined. She didn't know the reason. You declined in your own J-Sway, right?

I just have a default setting that Christian movies can be cheesy. And we did a Christian movie. Well, it just can't. me. And she was like, you want to watch this movie with me? She's like, it's a Christian movie. I think it's going to be great. I was like, eh. I got to go hunt. You got real busy all of a sudden. So fast forward a month, and they're like, watch this movie. And she's like, that's the movie I was trying to get you to watch. And I was like, okay, well, let me go watch it in peace. And she said,

I'll watch it with you. I was like, nope, I want to focus. This is work. I want to, but I was like, please don't be terrible. Please be good. We're going to talk to these people tomorrow. And it was terrible. After it was over, I thought, man, Jase, you're a terrible human being. It was awesome. Good.

And if it wasn't, I would have just been real quiet right now. But it was good. There was so many similarities with our family. Despite we're so different, which is what my joke was about the uttermost parts of the earth. y'all from Australia us from the woods you're out back we're outside all the time and it just

you know it was moving I actually got teared up wow on multiple occasions I did more than that I cried I ugly cried at the end of it it was just amazing what was the parts I'm interested I'm turning the tables a little bit but what was the parts that made you guys

emotional the one line which I guess can I don't want to have any spoiler alerts but there was one line we're just teasing yeah I'll give you a good, good line, because it, it just kind of wrecked me. Of course, I was thinking about our family too, because what you realize in a movie like this, although we cannot be any more, any more different, I think, just the way we talk, our accents, where we're from, but it's like they're us. And you realize God's story works in people. Because Christ is your family. And so the

similarities were, so there was a line in the movie that just wrecked me. And the line was, your family is not in the way. They are the way. Yeah, that was, if you ever wrote that down or if that was something that was actually said, because really in our family, it was the same type of journey. And so you look at what happened on our TV show that took off. Well, you know, I was thinking, this is never going to work. I just doubted because I wasn't realizing that God has a plan here for your family. But for me, just being a human, I was like, this is not going to work. Because they said, we're going to do a show about your family, but not do any hunting or fishing.

I was like, well, that's not going to work. That's all we do is we hunt and fish. No, we just want to do it about your family. And my dad doubted it as well. So for me, the first, so in every scene got me, but the first, one, I won't give the specifics, but the generosity of the people that you met there, like the things that they just gifted you guys because they saw and needed. And again, they're Christians. That got me right off the bat. And again, that was very personal for us because in our movie,

it's the exact same thing. The church. The church. The church took us in. In our case, we didn't have our dad because mom and dad is split up. And this church just took us in. And so just like with you guys. It was so similar. Christmas was a big deal with us. And even though dad wasn't a Christian, he loved Christmas. And so it was the one time we could, like he was around more, was during Christmas. And so that scene of Christmas, in our movie, it depicts when we came together and like the church got us some gifts. And it was, again, very similar to you guys' story. And as it came together, I just had that same link of thinking, man, that's what really it's about, because Jesus is such an amazing gift. Yes. But then we do that for each other. And, and

And so those were the scenes that got me early in the film and just hooked me in. And like, Jayce, I felt such a similarity there because you guys went through such hard times. And I got to be honest, I don't know anything about y'all's backstory, anything before I watched this film. In fact, I told Lisa, we were watching, and we're probably halfway through the film. And she said, that Joel is such a good actor. He's so, he's very, very good. You were amazing. And I was like, oh, that's the King.

Country guy is playing the dad? Yeah, high five, Lisa. He's such a good actor that he was halfway. I'm halfway through the film. I don't realize you're playing your dad. It was another thing I had to apologize because I said, wait a minute now. Missy said the son, look, I have, I'm, I had to repent last night. I did.

And God is forgiving me, so y'all have to too. Because you got to remember the first time, let me back up. The first time I was affiliated with y'all, we were at the same event. I have forgotten what exactly it was, but I was walking through as you were singing this song called Joy. And I was like, what a weird song, you know? Because I wasn't like, I wasn't, I was walking through. But the reason he says that is because you've got to understand, my brother only drinks

out of glasses half empty. So the concept of a song about joy doesn't appeal to him. I love the concept of the song, but in the moment with all the lights and the, one, two, three, you know, and just the, I wasn't really sure what the song was. Hey, he remembers it at least. What he's stuck with him. Oh, I grew it a lot of it. But I just thought, who is this? And somebody said for King and Country, I was like, it's like some weird Brits, you know. And just, it wasn't the song, because I didn't know what the song was really about, even though I heard you say, Joy, it was the way the song. It was different. It was so different. It was so different to anything I heard. And I was like, boy, the Lord's got a sense of humor here.

And so that was my first impression. And so then that's when I told my wife, I was like, are you familiar with for King and Country? And she was like, are you serious? Yes. I was like, oh, they were, I was at a thing. And they were doing this song. And she's like, you need to listen to that song. It's very powerful.

And she convicted me in that because. part of her point was you can find joy in struggle, which is I know where you got that idea. I'm sitting there thinking about Peter. And so even in the movie, that's the point I was going to make is, you know, as a kid, once we kind of got past before Jesus with our parents, even though we were struggling just like y'all financially because we had no finances, it didn't seem that big a struggle to me because it seemed like an adventure. Yes.

But my parents were like all hands on deck. We got to fix this. We got to figure out where our next meal. But for us, you know, I just knew that my dad wasn't drinking anymore. It wasn't mean anymore. The Lord had transformed him. And it just didn't seem like a struggle. It's like it is what it is.

So I love how you guys were vulnerable with your family, like your dad's character. which I also played my dad in the blind by the way at the very end they said we need someone to stand in for can you be an extra you look like that's cool so we're yeah we're going on here and I produced the blind I didn't direct it though but but you know watching how you guys were vulnerable about your dad's character and I because I identify with him just like super ambitious but yeah heart of gold but you could kind of see that whole tension play out probably one of the more powerful scenes for me was when your mom confronted him. And your mom reminds me of like, my mom, she was a titan. She's a titan. So you could tell that her character come out. But seeing the

vulnerability of showing that with your dad and even the part where it, because it is humbling to have to accept charity from the church as a dad. It was powerful. I think that we forget that, you know, struggle produces something in people. I mean, scriptural. It produces character. It produces perseverance and it ultimately produces hope. And I think the gift, you know, for our family, and it seems like you guys are all tight because of struggle. Yeah, we're tied out. If you didn't have the struggle that you had, you probably wouldn't be as close.

And that's actually our story as well. I mean, we choose to work with family because I trust them. Because if you're going to go through the things that we went through as kids and they're still standing by your side and you've started to, when we were young, we're setting up stages for Rebecca, we had no right doing any of these things. Dad just needed cheap, cheap labor. That's right. They were like 10, 12.

Some child labor was a broken. There's no way with you on that. Whose idea was to film? How did this, I'm curious that how this whole... It was Luke's idea. Yeah, I just, so I've shared our family's story. You know, obviously, just for those who are listening,

I'll give you a brief synopsis. You know, born in Australia, obviously, hopefully you guys can still tell it is true, you Americans of jacked up our accents. But we drew it out. That's right. Born in Australia. And then our dad was a concert promoter Australia,

and he brought a tour back to Australia. and it didn't go very well. So we lost the house. We lost the car. We lost the life savings. And so he was looking for a fresh start for the family, got a job offer in Nashville. We move.

He loses that job basically as soon as we arrive in Nashville. And so we're sleeping on beds made out of clothes, you know, no way for our little sister to be born in a hospital, you know, not always sure where the next meal was going to come from, didn't have a car. You know, the list went on and on.

And so I've shared, you know, some semblance of that story pretty much everywhere we've gone over the last 11, 12 years is for Kean Country. and I've had a lot of people come up. It's like, man, you guys should write a book. You know, there's something really powerful about this story. You know, and the truth is Joel and I were homeschooled, so we don't read her right very well.

Not true. So we thought maybe we could make a movie instead. My heart for it has always been this. You know, my wife, Courtney, we've got four kids, and I believe in the power of family. I think that family is more important today than it ever has been in the history of the world. But we just don't quite value it as a society as much as we should. And my hope was that we can make a movie where people, you have parents, you know, dad's going back and saying, you know, what if I become a better dad? You know, what if I become a better?

A son saying, what if I treat my sister or my brother better or a mom saying, look, here's a mother who did all the hard things. The unseen things. All the unseen things. And so Mother Teresa has a quote and she says, if you want to change the world, you know, go home and love your family. And my hope is that people that see this film will actually do that. I think also we're living in a time where people are discouraged in face. I think a lot of people are, you know, just really needing hope and encouragement when it comes to faith. And so I think this film, because it shows these miracles, and I shared that story that Luke just shared like night after night after night in my journey and ministry too.

This is a fun fact. Between Rebecca and Luke sharing about our family's story through Compassion International, we've sponsored $120,000. Oh, wow. Kids around the world. That's Rebecca sharing for, you know, 15, 20 years, and then Luke and us sharing for 10 years. And so that's a cool. The story has been shared hundreds of thousands of times. Who have ever thought?

A story about poverty in some cases. Yeah. Has actually gone out and helped pull 125,000 kids out of poverty. For the glory of God. Which is just the miracle of Jesus. Yeah. And you guys are a great example. what we try to do

and that's pay everything forward that we learn you know the idea is you never pay back what people gave you but we can pay it forward so Joe I've got a question let's take another break

I got a question for you because you know it was hard for the hardest thing probably in our family and we did the film was dad having to have his worst moments

even though we've been very open we've written books but still when you put it on a movie screen it's a different thing and so dad was a little bit apprehensive. And so I'm really curious since you played your dad of what that was like to have to relay some of your dad's not great moments on film. And then he's still, it's not like he's not around to watch. Yeah, he's still here. He's still here. And he was a writer.

He was a writer on it too. So I want to know about that, kind of how you felt about that and how he feels about that. And if that was hard to do. Well, it's really interesting because you guys know as being the sons of a strong father figure that you said it well jace you it was an adventure growing yeah and that's what it was for us like we didn't have any furniture but we got to play cricket in the house and we got to get out there and pour into the family and rake leaves and mow lawns it was just an adventure it's been really interesting flipping the script if you will and not seeing it from our pov as kids to parents yeah you know look at our five and seven when we move we were young, but seeing it from

dad's POV back, and I realized by way of confession I'm pretty lazy with his story. You know, I get frustrated at his ticks all the time. Like, oh, come on, Dad. You guys would never do that with your father. Dad, dad's pretty eccentric. Since he's not here, of course not.

No, never. But I've never done... My dad's a beast. I'd never done the work to like actually get into his story and go, okay, what was it like in 1991? What was the cultural moment. What's it like being on the other side of the world from everything you know? People speak of funny dialect and no insurance and your wife is in a high risk pregnancy and

you've got and you've just, and it's compounding failure. Failure after failure after failure. So it was, you know, the film is very adventurous but for him it's this counter of like, man, it was, it was tough. I found out something yesterday I didn't know. Because we sent mom and dad the script to read before we went into production. They watched the film before we locked the edit. So if there was anything that they were like, we just can't handle it. Dad never read the script beforehand. I knew you were going to say that. I didn't know that fact, but I knew that.

He sort of lied to me. He, like, I sent it to him. And he was like, yeah, you know, whatever your mom thinks. Yeah, he hid behind mom's call. And, uh, he did. That's, that's fascinating. He never, he never read it, which is another layer of faith on his end of going. Oh, yeah.

I don't think my dad ever. I don't think dad ever at his good. He trusted us to tell the story, but, but the process was actually really, painful. I mean, I haven't seen Phil cry at all my life until we did this and we were doing the interviews. It's going to be heavy for him once it comes out, because that's what he's right. My dad, who was, I mean, he was, he literally told me, hey, I brought you into the world. I'll take you out. Like, during a, I was like, okay, I won't do it again. But I, because I believed him. Scary, you know. And I'll never find you, Jay.

Louisiana I've got 1700 acres over here I dare him To see my dad To become so emotional So what we did I don't know what y'all's plans are I'm interested to hear

We all got together And watched I think Like not the whole movie But three or four clips One night as a family Had like a worship night That was the icebreaker And I had already watched it

I think at that time. No, not yet. Yeah. You watch it later. And it became something I've never seen my family do, which it became blubbery. We're really not crying people. And look, to tell the truth, it hasn't stopped since. Wow.

We've been crying about it. It broke the dam. It broke that emotional down. So we did do kind of what you did except the full version. So we had a Joel kind of scheduled a family viewing of it before anybody else saw it. And, um, and dad was there. Almost everyone in the whole family. Exactly.

That's it. But mom asked him afterwards point blank, like, what did you think of the movie? And like, emotionally. Like, that's what she was asking. And he wouldn't answer it directly. He said, it's a great movie. You guys have done a great job. But he wouldn't talk to his own emotional place.

And I think that was really interesting. I think that was really telling because I think it is hard. I think it is a sacrifice of praying. to God. He's lifting it up as a gift. You know what he did that night. So we, you know, that was that moment.

We're similar to you guys in that our father. Look, it's just, it's biblical. We should respect them. Yeah. He's our patriarch. And he's our patriarch. So there is a reverence in from down to the grandkids all the way up.

There's this a reverence for dad. And I noticed that night, obviously, it, it moved him. But he went and spent time with the guy who manages the room. and that was him somewhat ignoring his emotions. Like the theater. The theater. The theater. It's spent a lot of time with the projector guy.

And it's because I don't think he knew what to do. Now, since what's been powerful is this past Christmas, Joel and I were, we were out on tour and we would go do screenings of this at every place that, every city that we were in, we'd go to a screening of the film. And he was a part of that, and he watched it every single time. And he said, I'd cry through every part of it. I'd cry through it some part of the movie every time I'd watch it. And you know what's crazy? Our families, our parents are probably not going to go into therapy of sorts and walk through the trauma. But the film actually has become that for him.

As he's reliving these things and is working through it. Because why else would he keep watching? That's right. Y'all tapped in to something with his character, though, because there's some nuance and complexity to his character that I think is going to be really meaningful for fathers. I mean, there's a lot of, I don't want to say overambitious, but, you know, distracted fathers that are so bent on preparing for the family and providing for the family. And you guys kind of navigate through his story. I thought it was brilliant. I mean, you did an excellent job, by the way. I mean, it was, you know, but working through that as a dad, I mean,

I felt convicted in my own. That's right. You walk away going, I want to be a better dad. I want to be a better dad. I need to be emotionally attentive to my kids. My kids are pursuing music as well. And so I felt, I felt a lot of similarities. And I'm kind of a promoter. For me, it was like really powerful. But I think any dad that's like, that wants to provide for his family. There's that tension there, but there's also kind of like that pride element, too, that we all struggle with. But that's the hard part. And the storytelling is how do you show that flaw while at the same time showing the redemption part?

You guys did it very well. I was going to bring that up earlier. Because I want to promote this movie, and I think you did something in the movie. Maybe it was God's Providence. Maybe it was on purpose. I don't know it was genius. But you captured, there's a problem in our family. families is that all of our parents make mistakes.

Yeah. And so we as parents, we don't tend to recognize that. And so even Missy and I was talking about this last night, and we got a little emotional talking about it because there was a moment when our kids were older, they had had a falling out with my wife, over nothing. But it's like it was going down a place where like we're burning the bridge here. and I was just sitting there and I just went out and got my truck

and my son was in Nashville we're in Louisiana and I drove to Nashville without telling him just you know and I had responsibilities and I just didn't care I thought you know what I'm fixed to do something crazy

and I didn't even tell Missy I was doing it because she was emotional me on the way you remember that you called me and you said here's what I'm doing now and here's why which shows you about family because he's launching out here

because he's like, I've got to make sure my family's together and he calls his brother. Just for nothing else but just encouragement. I knew what that call was about is to say, you can do remember that now. And so, you know what's crazy?

So I pull up in their yard eight hours later and I knock on the door. It's not a short drive, by the way. You guys know, he just came from there. Knock on the door, you know, and my son's wife comes to the door. And she's like, it's just the seeing me is like, well, didn't we just talk to you? What?

And so I was like, let's make this right. And so we went to a little restaurant and sat down. And so I gave the, because it was so awkward, I guess I didn't plan it all through. But I basically said, look, whatever this is, I've come to the realization that we could have been better parents. And I don't even know what we're, I didn't even know what the fight was about, but it had just escalated so much. And so then I kind of shared my story for the first time. You know how the people get up at the Celebrate Recovery and they're like, hello, my name is Jace. And then they say what their problem is. Well, I, since my dad was such a, hey, Jay's, everybody was, you know, we respond differently to trauma. And in our cases, Al had, and I have used this, he was the prodigal son. I'm the older brother, but I was the younger brother in the story. But I was the older brother, even though I was the younger brother,

you know, I've never been drunk. He was the one, let's don't have a party because he's come back. Because I rebelled against my dad. I just thought I'm not, because really my problem is I struggle with forgiving my dad. That was my problem. And so then I was like, fast forward, here we are. So I was like, I am sure I made multiple mistakes.

And I just want to apologize. And I'm apologizing because your mom, I'm sure, made multiple. What was so crazy is they kind of started to cry. We never really got to the issue. It just ended. Because the forgiveness was there, right? Like the sorry, the being bold enough, courageous enough to say sorry. Sometimes it tastes a good slap in the face, though, right?

Hey, I see what you did, this. You know, it's funny, there's two, I had almost... Not at the same level, but a mirror experience a couple days ago, we were trying to navigate something, and I called a pastor and just talk for an hour. And he walked me through something that we, in the modern context, we're still grappling with, and that is forms of communication. Like, I've had to go to mom and dad to say, like, let's just not text anything serious anymore for the rest of our lives, you know?

Because we don't know tone of the text. And he broke it down. He said, so you got text, which is even worse than email, Because even in email, you know, there's a greeting and then like text is just so straight. And then after that, there's a phone call. But the greatest, most relational way to communicate with those you love is always in person. And I think that's what the spirit was saying to you. Oh, I was spirit-led.

I didn't have a plan. And what I came to realize later, it didn't matter what I said. The fact that I was, when I just showed up. The humility. It was over. The eight hours. It takes you loaded up and drove. Let's take our last break.

Can I say one thing? I don't think we've said the name of the movie. We haven't. Which is kind of a big deal. So I want to ask about that because I'm curious as to there were a lot of unsung heroes in this story. So what's behind the title? Because ours is called The Blind, which we were laughing before you guys got here in the setup for you guys. Dad's like, I don't know why we called it that.

Well, I started that. And I was like, well, Dad, why do you think we called it that? You know, we're getting into, is it a duck blind? Is that I was blind? And now I can see. And of course, it was both. It was all of it. So Unsung Hero means...

There was a lot of you, Chase, you mentioned Providence earlier, and we have to give honor and credit where credit is due. There are some projects you guys know that you sort of create the momentum and you have to push this thing into existence. And then there are others that you do the same thing, but then we make our plans and God sort of orders our steps and just he sort of takes it and sort of runs with it. And that's what Unsung Heroes felt like. Even down to the title, we were working on, we're musicians. We've got three musicians in front of you here. We were Luke and I were working on our fourth studio album, and we'd written this song for Mum.

Luke had walked in and said, I want to write a song for Dad. And I said, I don't. I would like to write a song for Mum. And so we ended up writing the song that became Unsung Hero. Meanwhile, we were sort of developing a film, an unsung-hero. Untitled film about our family and there was this epiphany moment where we went oh my goodness It's both it's we should marry these two and I love I love that you don't quite know You know mum to a lot of mums is an unsung hero of the film for me comes out right before mother's day too

Yeah and it does in honor of moms for me Rebecca is a is a is a is a sung hero That's what I saw I mean I saw so many as an older sibling. Yes exactly I saw yeah Because I related so much to the scene because I was 16 and there's a scene in the film where it just kind of all comes out with your dad, what he's going through, where you are, you want to sing. We're trying to figure all this out. And your mom is like just, you know, jumping in there to make it happen. And it took me back to being 16. And this was another huge, like, emotional piece for me watching the film because I was that 16-year-old that was unsure of myself. And I had this bad relationship with my dad because I resented him too just like Jace.

in a different way. And then so we just had that moment out. And so seeing that. And you're carrying a lot of it as the oldest. Exactly. You feel it. Oh, I've, in which I think, why me and I are so close now, because I realized as many problems as I had, you know, from that situation.

Al's, it was almost five years older. Yeah. So, he was almost a teenager. I remember so much more. I carried so much more, you know. Yeah. Similar with Rebecca. Yeah.

Yeah, right, right. So, you know, y'all are to be commended. I mean, you're the first child, and it's just... I love that wave breaker. Yeah. Yeah, that's a beautiful picture of seeing that, because it's all tumultuous, right? And that was another reason why I think we related. You guys had what I would call what we had was a mana philosophy of living in those early years.

In other words, just like in the Old Testament, the manna can. It was daily. And it was from God. It was from God. And you could see it. And you knew it. And you couldn't pick up more than one basketball. I mean, that was all you could handle in the time, what you could.

guys were doing. And it was like, this sustains us in the fight. But you know what y'all's story did, I thought, I mean, I have a lot of things that it really struck me. But one of them is because I'm real big on being authentic, obviously, look at me. And but you watched it and you thought, you can't make this up. And look, when I was such a skeptic because I didn't want to forgive my dad. So when he came to Christ, I thought, yeah, we'll see all on this last. So I actually went at 14 and of course he's been in the Lord five, six years at that point. But I was skeptically studying it. I thought, let me find where the problems is.

You know, this can't be true. And I had the same response to Jesus. You know, I read the book of John and I thought, this is true. This happened. I was just convicted by the character, the story, the way he interacted with people. I thought he was, God became a human. It's too strange to be a fair to tell. I wanted to run outside and say, hey, guy came to the planet.

It's real. It happened. Wow. But then the convicting part was like, and now I've got to forgive my dad. I'm going to have to unload this. But when you sang the song, I don't know if, you know, I'm sure that happened in some capacity that you were based in that story. You make everything beautiful? Well, when you were, y'all.

were in the airport. I don't want to give away the movie. There were a few instances where you spontaneously sang. And so I was not, I didn't come from a family as my dad says jubles. Because when we said y'all were coming, he said, oh, that's those jubel people. Because there's an obscure verse in Genesis 5. So anybody who sings, my dad says, that's the jubal. Because they were the people of the liars and the harps.

Yeah. So when you're looking at the lineage of the. you said hops, I was like, golly, they were the liars. The liar you ponderous. Write a song about it, Jubal. Use my dad as a reference. Every time it comes up by musicians, he says, oh yeah, they're from the line of Jubal. But he's going back to the original people pre-floods just so you know.

So that's when I, and I didn't just tear away. That's going back away. I didn't just tear up. I cried during that because I happened God through his providence and evidence. you know, I married a musical person. My wife can sing like an angel. And if she didn't marry me, she would probably be doing what y'all are doing. But she just kind of like your mom decided, all right, I'm going with the duck people here.

And she set aside, you know, her dreams of being a singer. And she does, she fulfills that in many ways singing. And so all my kids can sing. So it's so weird, I'm a non-singer. So when tragedy And it's you sing over time. I do. And can you give us a little?

Time is filled with swift transition. You know, I sing that to my dad, you know. Man, you are a singer. You're lying to yourself. You're getting the applause right there. Joel's giving you good applause. Hold the gods and changing him. What I was going to say is so when tragedy.

We have three amazing singers on this podcast, and the only person is going to sing is Jay. That's funny. Something there's wrong about. I'm trying to make this podcast go viral because I want people to stop what they're doing and watch the movie. Because I had a perception of your group and your music, which I love because that's what I was going to get to. My wife introduced me to contemporary Christian music. And I'm so thankful.

But she introduced me to worship and singing and my kid singing. but none of it really hit home until my daughter, who was born with a craniofacial issue, and she's had multiple surgeries. We talked about her story many times here and had her own. And she did great. You quoted Romans 5 earlier about perseverance suffering, produced perseverance, perseverance, character, hope. But she kind of lost her way when she became a teenager just because of all the trauma. and the PTSD associated with all the suffering,

and she's looking different. So then we were having these come to Jesus meetings. I was back to the same deal about driving to Jesus. I mean, I drive to Nashville and having a Jesus moment. You know, I was struggling with this. I was like, she's been such a rock throughout all this. What happened? And so she had her moment,

and all of a sudden her heart, God pricks her heart. She completely gives her life to Jesus because everybody has to find their own way through this process. And, you know, I was being impatient about it. But when you sang that song, Acapella, in that rough moment, I saw her heart change based on, because she would always play the piano during her surgeries because that was her go-to. Music was her, what she could do. And even though she couldn't sing because of all the,

you know, surgery she had had, I could tell her heart had change from the energy that was coming through the notes. And so I would sit on the couch and just, you know. Weep. Yeah. I'm getting emotional. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. That's when they kick it back to me. But when you sang that song, it just all this flush of emotion hit me over all those times I sat there and listen. And I just thought, I need this, I need this. You know, her heart is coming through the chords. And that was one of the things that struck us was all the different songs, burn the ships, all that that you see in the film that are beautiful. So you're going to say so over there. Well, there is something so transcendent about music. It takes you to this emotional

place of heart connect where you're not kind of in your head anymore. You're just feeling it in your heart and responding. And I think there is something for everyone in this movie. I think there's something that's hopeful. There's something that is encouraging. I had this moment recently of going within the word encourage, which I think is a form of what we all do, right? We're called to encourage and build up is the word courage. And I think when we encourage other people, we're calling forth their courage. We're calling them to stand firm. And I think this film is for such a time as this where a lot of people are discouraged about family or discouraged about faith or both and they need to be encouraged to stand firm and to hope again. And I think,

you know, we've seen really great response to the film, lots of standing ovations. And I think it's because people feel the hope. And the music is part of it. I think it's got this through line of music, this through line of God being faithful, even in life being challenging. And I just pray that that brings a revival. Like we were talking earlier today, getting here,

about, I mean, revival can break out at any point, but it comes from our need. And that's knowing that we need him. Oh, there's no doubt. Well, I think what you did is in Jesus, you gave a glimpse into God designed us as families. That's right. He chose a family to bring himself here.

And what you gave a glimpse of is that God the whole time had the idea of us being part of a forever family. And that's where the hope comes from. He was 214. He's not ashamed to call us his family. And so we shouldn't be ashamed of him. You guys have talked about so many wonderful things, but I've had a lot of people ask me, and you guys have got older kids than me. I'm not an expert parent, but people have said, hey, how do you get your kids to follow Jesus?

Right? It's a pretty simple thing that a lot of Christian parents want to know. And one of the correlations we were talking earlier about just how our families have gone through similar things. And I've always thought of it like this, and this is what I'm trying to teach my kids, is like, if I can see evidence of Jesus changing me, and my kids can watch that, they're going to see something that they want. Yes. Struggle is the gift that our families have in association with each other. It gave our parents the honor and the privilege to display the incredible power of what Jesus can do in a life that is not perfect. It doesn't have, in some cases, a lot of times we don't even have a future.

And he says, I'm going to make a way. I'm going to change it. And I think when I look at our family stories, obviously we haven't known each other for super long, is our parents got to display that Jesus is real. There's actually something that when you see miracles, you pray for things. How long do you pray for your dad? I don't know.

And you see it take place. It changes you as a kid. And those are the things like, man, your evidence. I think families out there, if you can teach your kids one thing to do, teach them forgiveness. And your family will, your family has a chance. Your family, we always say this. Now, our family's functionally dysfunctional. We fight for the word functionally.

front of dysfunctional. I love it. So Unsung Hero releases April 26. Mum and Dad's 49th wedding anniversary. Awesome. Is there a website? Unsung Hero. Dot movie. We're the greatest fools. Unsunghero dot movie. So look, to our audience, Unashamed Nation, if you loved the blind and were moved by it, you are going to love this film and be moved back because it's very similar about their story. And so thank you for being willing to put it out there. Thank you. Thank you for being here in Louisiana.

I don't think we knew what we're walking into this morning, but you guys have encouraged us. I love that we got to be a little bit of Jace's sanctification too because I felt there was a lot of judgment, you know? It was. I was wrong. He's repented. How often do you repent?

Not often. But I'm glad we could offer that today more. And I will say this too. Look, we've talked so much about the depth of the film. I hope people know that like it's fun as well. There's some funny stuff. There's a lot of there. There were other questions I had about that.

I said it wasn't cheesy. That answered all those questions. Check it out. Unsung hero. Thank you guys for coming. Thanks. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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