Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 873 | Jase Is Shocked by a Modern ‘Holy Curse’ That Works & Phil Is Fascinated by Herod’s Demise

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

Phil warns against messing with Jesus or his angels as King Herod did just before he was struck down and suffered an agonizing death. Jase gets called up to the pulpit big leagues to preach in place of Larry Bowles, and a holy curse that actually worked makes Jase scratch his head. The guys offer clarification of Saul’s “name change” that really wasn’t a name change and discuss the shift of the Christian church outreach from Jerusalem to Antioch. In this episode: Acts 12, Acts 13, 1 John 2, verse 2; John 1, verse 1; 1 Corinthians 16, verse 22 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. And Zach was just here. Zach, you were in studio just two days ago. Now you're back in North Carolina. Of course, you and your boy, a couple of your boys stayed with us. It's always interesting to have a dasher, what you'd call it. Protégé? Yeah, staying at your house. because they always leave stuff.

You know, it's like they always leave something behind. I don't. They do. Yeah, they do. It's usually your children. But sometimes you have to. No, I'm sure they learned it from music. I'm sure the apple didn't fall far from the tree.

But the tree, you're indicting here is not me. It's the other part of the tree. It's my own. I don't know which son it was. One of them left a backpack. It was Max. So they had been, they didn't on the road. They were heading to Dallas from us.

because Zach's got some high-level meetings, I'm sure. And so Lisa comes out of the bedroom. She's back there, you know, getting everything back. Women like to get everything back in order. Have you noticed that? Like, you have people come in. They're not too stressed in the moment, but then once it's over, they've got to get everything back in order.

Because she comes out carrying a backpack, and she said, this is one of Zach's son's backpack. So I took a picture of it sent to Zach, because I wasn't sure how critical. I don't know what was in it. I don't go through other people's bags. Yeah. And so, Zach's, oh, he'll pick it up when he comes back through.

So you were like, no big deal. And it's still there at the house. Yeah, we were past Rustin. So it would have been a 30 minute drive. I didn't figure. I would have never come back for one of my kids, whatever. I'd have been like, you suck it up. They're like, can they mail it?

I'm like, I don't know. I mean, but I'm not turning around. So, yeah. I mean, Max is, Max is going, Max and Layla were going to Dallas to record it out. They're actually, they got a little band. They started called Dash or the Band. And so they're going to be recorded. They're finishing up their album that are released the next month.

So I was dropping him off. And then I was going to have a couple meetings. That was like breaking news. That, well, you just talked over that. I mean, your kids are making an album. That's a big deal. They are making an album, not officially. Well, we all know they're talented because now the whole world's heard them on American Idol.

So your kids are very talented. They, and it sounds great. I mean, I've listened to some of the, like, I guess it's a process. Is that what you, are you like to the, Daddy Smallbone now? Are you the promoter of the... I thought about... Once I watched that movie,

I kind of felt convicted. I was like, I could be that guy. Yeah, I was like, you know, I'm not as talented in the music. I don't know a whole lot about the music world, though. So it's not, I don't have the contacts. That's not. So they're kind of running with that.

I'm giving them advice, just basic business advice, but I wound up in Dallas working on our stuff. And it was so funny, I was talking to this guy for breakfast. And he was telling me, I've been watching Unashamed. He said, man, you guys are deceptively smart when it comes to the Bible. And I was like, that's one of the best qualifiers I've ever. What is that?

You're deceptibly smart. Is that a compliment? It's kind of a backhand compliment. And if he's probably listening to this podcast, you know who you are. And you know what you said. Well, whoever you are, you are, you. have coined a new phrase that I will use in the future. You know, you look at old Jay's. He's deceptively smart. That's, you're not really sure. He said we weave in sarcasm.

His phrases, you guys have a brilliant way of weaving in sarcasm and the way that Jace goes after you for your big words, which he did have a caveat, which you're, I actually appreciate Zach. He did say that. I just want to say. But he said it is. He said it's disarming. And you take the Bible and you put it into the language of everyday man. So there was a nod to Jace, right? So it was, but he says the way y'all worked through it. But he also secretly patted you on the back because he likes the big word. There was no compliment there.

I got that idea from a little something called the New Testament. There's the sarcasm that he mentioned right there. Let me just call that out. When you were ripping me on the last podcast, Jace, let me just tell you what I wrote down here. Uh-oh. Oh, thanks taking notes. I feel a. Hey, Maddie, do you got some boxing gloves?

This is all in love. I'm feeling a rebuke coming out. I just write down 1st John 2, 2, which says he is the, he is the perpetuation. Oh, boy. That's a big word. And it's in the Bible. He is the perpetuation for our sins and not just ours, but also for the sins of the world. So the Bible does have some big words in it that we have to work through,

propitiation is one of those words. So I did think about, uh, what was that first John what? First John two, two. So the NIV says the toning sacrifice. Well, the NIV says a toning. So if you're going to use the word, I'm not even sure I can say it. Propitiation.

Propitiation. We will give it, all I'm asking for is a little bumper sticker definition because you still haven't given it. Well, you've said it and said we need to know it. But to our friend's point, this is where the problem is right here. You don't give me a chance to get. I never get a chance because a cricket comes out. Like, I'm going to define the term, but I'm interrupted by a cricket noise.

So. See, see. But it's all fun. It's all fun that, right? Thanks to the 11-year-old young man that sent us the crickets. Oh, yeah. I thought it was a compliment. I took the whole thing as a compliment, though.

I really did. Well, and I hear that a lot from my. other people, they enjoy our humor, they enjoy that we don't take ourselves too seriously, and they enjoy the fact that we lead with most things by saying to Dad's book title here in front of him, I could be wrong. Even without the, but I doubt it, I could be wrong. And so that's how we start out. The idea is we're not acting like we know it all, but we love to study the Bible and see what it's the nature. It's the nature of the podcast. I mean, that's another thing that this gentleman said. He said, it feels like I'm at a home Bible study.

And I've said, that's intentional. Yeah. It's why we don't heavily edit this. I mean, I'm sure over the course of however many episodes we've done, if somebody wanted to go in and say, we're going to find all the theological errors, there's probably a lot in there because this is happening in real time. I mean, we're studying, but we're, you know, we're not, we're having discussion here. And so, yeah, we could be wrong.

But I think that's the nature of it. I hope we can keep that spirit about it, because I think it is impactful, just to work through it, work through it together. I mean, I'll tell you, I've changed a lot just by being forced into the word. You know, I mean, my view of the kingdom has changed a lot of the last 800 episodes. I'll tell you that. No, I agree. The meaning of propitiation is the act or gaining or regaining the favor of or goodwill of someone.

What's your NIV say? It's atoning sacrament. Toning sacrifice. Making clean. But atonement is another word. we don't use much in the modern, you know, vernacular. So we're gaining the good will. Well, regaining the good will of God.

Right. I mean, I'll give you an example. I spent an hour last night. Where is this at? I'm skipping ahead. I'm pulling a fill. Oh, boy. But in Paul's first recorded sermon, he makes a statement to echo this propitiation.

Now, I wasn't prepared to do this. So when he gets down to verse 38, I think, 1338. Where you at? Acts 1338. And Paul's... He's jumping to the next point. Well, I'm jumping just for to explain that because I really found this fascinating

and I would like to know. But it's so detail-oriented, I'd rather do it, like, in this setting. But he says, therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through, Jesus, the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. Now, you just got through talking about the resurrection. And then he says, through him, everyone who believes is justified. Now, the current NIV says from every sin, and I was going to throw the NIV translation under the bus.

I didn't realize in my research that my 1984 NIV actually has it right here. It says, through him, everyone who believes is justified from everything, you could not be justified from the law of Moses. I was going to make a point because when I read it from the NIV on the internet, it said from every sin. The 2012 missed the bigger. And so when I looked at that phrase, I thought, I don't think I've ever recalled that being in the Bible.

So when I looked up the Greek lexicon, which I explained a few podcasts how to do, well, in the second verse there, sin's not in there. Yeah. It says, but it's in the context of verse 38, which is how they translate the Bible. So, because he said in 38, I want you to know that through Jesus, the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. That's what it says. Jesus proclaim, he is forgiving you of your. sins and then through him everyone who believes is justified from everything and it actually says he frees you from everything the word freedom is in there somewhere in the greek that you could

not be justified from by the law of moses which is what so you asked me to preach this sunday yep which at first i thought well man that's really nice and then i found out because larry bowes was supposed to preach. Well, you were going to preach the next Sunday. So it wasn't like you weren't, you were in the lineup, but you got moved up. You just got moved up to the starting picture role because our starting pitcher went down. And Larry, I know you listen to the podcast, so we're sorry about, he's re-injured his knee. And so he had to have another surgery on it. And so he missed he was going to kick us off in Hebrews. I don't know of a better guy that sets the parameters than Larry. So you're now stepping into the starting row. You will, the whole.

Study of Hebrews will go or not go depending on what you do Sunday, but there's no pressure. So this is like the equivalent of when the baseball strike happened and they had the replacement players. Yeah, you're a scab. Yeah, and nobody came and watched. So I'll have to rely on my deceptively smart quality. Deceptively smart. So you've wrapped around this sermon. I got moved up in the batting order on a different subject.

And then we've done a record, this has been a record podcast week for me. They've had a lot, yeah. So it's my seventh podcast in one week. Yeah. Yeah, because you jumped into the other. You jumped into the, uh, I was called by a higher power to interpret. Look, who was my role on the duck call room podcast? I was asked, and I quote, can you come on the podcast and interpret, can you come on the podcast and

interpret sigh to the small boat for king and country the small bones yeah i was like what does that mean can we not use subtitles and and she's the producer's like well yeah but most people listen so we need sye to talk them to talk but you interpret what sigh is saying so they won't just be lost yeah you're a mediator you were mediator you were mediator yeah it was a really weird experience like you were there Yeah, it was deceptively awkward. It was. I actually thought it was really good. I thought it was really good.

I thought that they, I was shocked at how this is how everybody got along. And it was almost like, you know, I'm trying to wrangle the day long. But I felt like at each, at each moment, it was like I could not get the parties to separate and to move to the next. I mean, it was just, it was a great energy, you know, but I think it. If you didn't listen to those podcasts, go back and listen and also check out Jayce's debut because you don't go in the duck car room very often. How many, you've only been on a few times. Maybe three times. Well, there's a reason for that because I thought they were doing a Bible study kind of like us.

But so the first one when I came, no one told me what we were going to talk about. And I found out later it's because no one knew what we were going to talk about. And it was one of the most nonsensical things. I felt like, I don't know what that was. So what you're saying is their podcast is just a cold open every time for the whole podcast. It's a cold open for 47 minutes and then in the 48th minute, which is how long it was. So I said, Jace, give us a Bible verse and give us some credibility. That was.

So I told story. Now, it was funny and it was entertaining. So I gave him a theme verse for his podcast. Have you heard? No. What was the theme verse? Well, you were there. You weren't listening.

No. Which I didn't see anybody. You did this at the last, the one you were on, the one you were just on. I said, I've just now figured out what should be your theme verse for the podcast. And so I was like, he said, lay it on me. And so I read a little verse in 2 Corinthians 5, 13, the A part. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God. out of our mind.

They could have been the title of it. Yeah, because Sa, he's out there. So tell me about your sermon prep. So I'm curious because we're recording on a Friday today. You've got to make sure he's setting up the book of Hebrew. Well, I don't know. I'm up after him. The reason I scheduled myself after days was I figured I would do a cleanup on aisle seven if needed.

Yeah. So. Here's what's funny about this. If y'all want to see how the sausage is made here. So Al gives me a title, which is Jesus is better, because the word better is mentioned or superior. Or greater. I think that's what. And you know what hit me in that?

I haven't prepped yet. I've just thought I meditate because I hadn't had timed prep. So it's Friday. I'm preaching Sunday. There's no prep yet. So I'm going to work that in in the next 48 hours. You get what you ask for In the preaching world, Jay's

They call this a Saturday night special Well, that's what it is biblical. Always be prepared to give an answer. So you should align. Just a thought that nobody's mentioned. I'll finish my point after Phil. You finish your point. When the people after this thing in prison,

Peter and them escape and get out of there, they live over it. And these people begin to gather around Herod and say what a great man he was. On the appointed day, Herod wearing his royal robes, here he comes in all his splendor, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people. This is just after Peter Niam have escaped. They shouted, this is the voice of a God, not a man.

So the audience said, that dude, that's coming straight from God. immediately upon the people coming to that conclusion because Herod did not give praise to God. You say, what happens when a human being takes up the slack and says, that's my doing, not God's? What happens is, which to me has always been surprising, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down

I don't know where he came from out of the... Out of the other realm. Out of the other realm. And he was eaten by worms and died. Yeah. Inside out. I'm like, I've never heard of a man reaching so much fame and going to bring trouble. And all of a sudden, he is rotting on the ground full of maggots.

That's right. Well, thanks for the motivation, Phil, about my public... All I'm saying is, don't mess with the... these angels that are coming out of God. No pressure now. No pressure. No pressure. And he said, well, what's the worst thing that could happen?

An angel could come out from heaven, strike you down, worms. And you will die. I was thinking more about the health of our sermon series. That got my attention because I'm thinking, don't mess with God when he's going to get some priests. I was hoping. I was hoping our Hebrew series wouldn't crash and burglings. dad is hoping you don't get worms.

Yeah, the stakes have been risen. I mean, you just think about what a way to be a picture of person who is alive one minute, and within the next few minutes, the maggots are just eating it. On the inside out. I feel like we just had a half-time speech. I know God wouldn't want to scare us, but he got his attention to me. I guarantee you that. But, Dad, to your point earlier in the last podcast, is the little things.

You talked about the little things? Yeah. When we're doing something great and people say, oh, you're a guy. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, no, I'm not. I'm telling you. It's important to say let people know I'm not a guy. But what I was conclusion. Think of it.

That's tough to read. I felt like I was crossing the street and I just got clipped. My feet went up there. There's no pressure, Jason. You know my number one fierce public speaking fell, so that didn't go into the narrative. Don't mess this up. Are you maybe in the worm, I'm going to give glory to God right off of that.

I'm just sticking with the story. No, you're right, though. Don't pretend. What I was going to say, though, is... Play like you're God. Exactly. Which seems like a very small point now after hearing Phil's point, but I was going to say, you know,

I know why you gave me that title because of all the references, it's a better covenant that's in there. Yep. It says, uh, what was? some of the other. Better than Moses. Better than law.

Better than angels. But I got to think about it. Better than priesthood. Better than what? A better priesthood. I got a better city. So I got to thinking about that, though. I think the English language is having trouble translating that word.

Because when I thought about that, I thought what Jesus is. is better, Jesus is better, Jesus is better, that's the whole outline. But wouldn't that mean that he's the best? Oh, no doubt. Far above anything that ever was in. If you go there, you can avoid the worms, Chase. I like the path. This is where I'm going because I thought this English word,

I think it's the first time in my Bible study, because I sat down, all I've done in my prep is I read the whole book of Hebrews. I did that a couple nights ago. And I thought, wow, I don't think this word better is strong enough. And so I started looking for all the synonyms, superior, greater. I was like, we don't have a word on how much better this is. That was my first thought. My other thought that I'm going to launch off from is how can you believe in God, the same God?

which I concluded that most of the Bible is written to people within the context and culture of people addressing people who believed in the God that we believe in. How can you believe in God and miss Jesus? It's quite a thought. Yeah, it is. And you said, does that happen today? Whistling means probably. Yeah. But all these little instances in the Bible started popping into my head about when Mary went and visited the tomb and the angel said,

why do you look for the living among the dead? You know, she believed in Jesus. But in that moment, it was hard for her to wrap her head around that he was alive. And I thought, you know, I think some people follow a dead Jesus. They think he was a good example, a good teacher. Because even on the other side of non-believers, people don't hate too much on Jesus, if they're being honest. When your faith is questioned, you might take a real close look at that.

Yeah. If that's the charge, you say, hmm. Well, that's exactly why that. Stay in your lane. That's exactly why when people have been asking me what they need to pray for me and Lisa through our current struggle with what she's going through and we're going through. I always say, please pray that we're faithful. That way we're ready for whatever happens.

And so I think that's kind of what you see in the situation in Acts 12. There was faithful prayer and the idea of, but they were expecting him to be killed. The expectation was help us get through losing another one of our leaders. What they got was, and they were surprised by it, and actually so was Peter, is they got a release. He got a moment where he said, God said, I'm not quite done with you yet. A lot of these leaders in these lessons are kind of praised.

They praise themselves. When they get right down to it. Yeah. They need to get on their knees and say. That's right. It made me think whatever is God in your life, even if it's the same God without Jesus, I was thinking of the comparisons. And I thought it would be like residue on your finger compared to the ocean.

it would be like a grain of sand compared to the beach. And that's why I read that Acts 13 where it said, that was my whole point 10 minutes ago, is when he said in 38, I want you to know that through Jesus, the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, which is what we mainly focus on. Or as Zach brought up, the propitiation.

We focus on that. Which that word would apply into that text, because that's what it means. Then he makes that next statement, which I didn't even know was in the Bible, embarrassingly. But he says, through him, everyone who believes is justified from everything that the law of Moses could not justify. I mean, just think about that. You say, what?

What he does. The whole system in the light of Hebrews. Right. Because it goes through the whole system. the whole law, the angels brought the commandments. You have all these great fantastical stories, all these heroes. It's great. You have all these social matters, how you get along with people.

And he's saying, you're not thinking big enough. It's way bigger. It's way better. He's going to justify you from everything. He's going to make it right. He's freeing you from everything that you think. thought could bring you anything. And also is not only the theme of Hebrews, Zach, I would argue it's the theme of Romans.

I mean, that's exactly what Paul's entire point is in Romans. You cannot be justified by anything other than Christ. You cannot earn it. It's not there. We're all bad. We all need it. Which is why, yeah, because Romans starts out with essentially Paul saying, I want to interpret the Old Testament for you. I'm going to go back to the scriptures, and I'm going to interpret this,

because this is what the prophets talked about in the scriptures and the Holy Scriptures, and he's making it known, kind of the same language in Ephesians as well. And then here, I mean, he starts off Hebrews with long ago at many times and in many ways. What does that mean? What are you talking about long ago? Like, when the Old Testament was written, because God spoke to our fathers by prophets. So they all wrote those prophecies down. You know, Isaiah was one of those prophets.

And so he recorded all of what God said to him. Ezekiel, another prophet, Micah. You just go through all of the prophets of the Old Testament. It's all there. And so he's saying in the past, that's how God spoke to us. But in these last days, he's spoken to us by his son. And so he's about to show them that it's in Christ that all of it was fulfilled. Yeah, the point of the whole thing is that,

is that Acts 1224 about the old, Herod being eaten right worm. But the Word of God continued to increase and spread. Yes. Which was, that was on the table. And remember, that was Herod's whole purpose was to stop that. That's right. But he did not.

He stepped in the way of a spiritual train that was going to just, Leave him wouldn't just a... Well, you wind up a pile of worms. Oh, that's it. So let me, you bring up an interesting point, and since we have our scholar here, Zach. Who's the scholar? Oh, I thought you were. You're not deceptively smart.

Propitiation. I'm not a scholar, but I, yeah. You have scholar tendencies. I'm scholar tendencies. And it's not even deceptive. Yeah. I dropped out a seminary, though. I just want to let you know that.

Well, you've got something somebody has said, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. That's it. Could be wrong. Phil's got a book out, everyone. Go by it. There's still a few signed copies. Your daddy said, that's a good one. So Acts 12 in verse, well, Phil just read 24, but the Word of God continued to increase

and spread. Did you know? fun fact seven times in the next chapter that phrase is going to be used the word it's worthy of god it's worthy of note seven times it's going to be mentioned in the next chapter so i want now look seven times in one chapter and it's mentioned here is don't stand in the way of god when his word is beginning to spread well i thought we could i thought we could define that So what does that mean? Now, it's, when we think of Word of God, what is the first thing that pops in your head?

The Bible. The Bible. Now, y'all, that's the first thing that popped in your head. The first thing that pops into my head is John 1.1, always think that. Jesus, yeah. I think, in the beginning was the Word, word, was with God, and the word was God. So I realize this is a tricky thing to explain, so I think. I thought we should bring it up.

No, but your actual, your thinking is right because there was no word of God other than the Old Testament prophecies that pointed to Jesus. And so, he has to be the center. So, so you're right, Jay's. It's much more the idea that it's Jesus, which is who the word is about. Yeah, he's the logo, it's the expression of God. He's proceeding from the father. And you think about... Well, guess what the Greek word of that 720...

I mean, a 1224 is. Logos. Logos. You know what the seven times in Acts 13? You know what it is? On the Greek? Yeah. I don't.

Same thing. Logos. Yeah. They just don't have it capitalized. Yeah. But it's Jesus. But go ahead and finish your thought. I'm just saying the word is pointing you.

you said that. I think that's the thing. I actually love this, by the way. I love where we're going with this. I have said this verse on the podcast so many times that you guys are probably sick of hearing it. But when Jesus went to the Pharisees and he said to them, you study the scriptures, you study the word diligently. John chapter five. John five.

You think by them you're saved. But you miss the logos. You actually miss the word. You miss me, the one they point to, and you refuse to come to have life. And so, man, you see this, the way this impacts in our modern culture, we don't have really Pharisees like in the Old Testament anymore, but we do have sectarian people who will take the, like, the way you can identify them is, is that if they're talking about a system that they're trying to pull you into, you have to get this system of belief right. in order to be right with God. If they're selling you a system... You have to earn it.

You have to earn it. If they're selling you a system, instead of pointing you to the person of Jesus, you can hear it in their language. I mean, it's so... You can hear it because you can't hide Jesus. If Jesus is the... He is the accomplishment of all the...

That's the whole... That is Hebrews, by the way. That's it. She said, what's the book of Hebrews about? Jesus accomplished all of it. Preach, temple, the greatest. Sacrifice, all of it. Which makes him the greatest.

So back to this thought I brought up at the end of the last podcast, at the end of chapter 12, I brought up the movie Shawshank Redemption, which is actually has a lot of biblical tone to it. An innocent man is imprisoned, suffers, difficulty, but then he's brought out and escapes. And we talk about this. And then his tormentors all face judgment. And hanging on the wall in the warden's office is a sign that says judgment cometh. And that right soon. And then he winds up, you know, blowing his brains out.

And so because of who he was. And I thought about that in the context of what we're talking about here. The Word of God, Jesus, is pure and righteous and holy. And all these evil men keep trying to think. that they can stamp it out and put a stop to it. And every time they do it, it's like taking a fire and putting wind into it. And it takes off across the landscape. That next one they run into is at Elimus, and the Apostle Paul got to him.

You're a child of the devil, an enemy of everything that's right. You're full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? That's it. So set us up to there, Al. So let me sit down. Let's take a break. And we shift now, Deb, and Luke is going to take us from everything we've been talking about Peter.

It's the last time we're going to read about Peter next to now Barnabas and Saul, who now are in this place, Antioch, which, by the way, I think was it just a third largest Roman city. I think it was the second. Maybe second. Or maybe, yeah. I think it seemed like it was after Roman and Alexandria. And then there was this Antioch. And remember, that was the place that was known for commerce and immorality. We're talking this was the pagan of pagan places.

Right. But what's happening is God is shifting now the real base of operation from Jerusalem where it has been to now Antioch, because now we're fixing it go into the Roman world. And this modern day area time frame of which we live, it's just a repeat of that. It is. So what happens is, and here's the way the rest of the book of Acts plays out. So this is the beginning in Acts 13 of one of three missionary journeys that Saul,

who will become Paul in this context, now takes on. And it starts out with him Barnabas and a team of people, and they're going to make this first run through, and they're going to plant churches, and they're going to do the work of God. Then they're going to do it again in another journey, another third journey after that, and then eventually he's going to wind up in Rome at the end of the book.

So this is the beginning place of this ministry. And the first thing he faces, his dad brings out, when he goes to Cyprus, is this, kind of like Peter did, you know, where Simon, you know, the... Yeah, Acts 8. Peter was Simon and the Sorcer. A lot like our people.

Yeah. Well, it makes you kind of, it's so, you to think that the fact that this is brought up twice in such a short period of time, and then and again it happens in Acts 19 with the seven sons of Skeva. Don't underestimate the spiritual forces of evil that's going on it and going through this, I don't know what you want to call. I was thinking magic, but it's, how would you describe it? Well, it's kind of a, I would say in our vernacular,

we would call it part of the occult. There's the idea that there are forces at work from the other side, and they come through in a lot of different ways. Another one, Jay, that happens to Paul, is remember the little girl, slave girl, who has this ability to predict the future. And he cast that out of her. Well, that got him whipped and beat up and a riot started over that.

So every time he comes up against these things where there's this kind of, you know, occultish thing. And look, a lot of these are Jewish. same thing here today. You're right, and we see it all over the place. True. This is to them a many, many, many out there. Right.

And we always immediately want to say it's fake, but that's not necessarily true. It's of the dark side for sure. Well, do you want to read that? Yeah. So first of all, let me say the church, in verse one, they're in Antioch, and there's these men that are there and their prophets and their teachers. And they're diversified. diversified. Black and white. In fact, yeah, one of them was a temple priest from Cyprus,

Barnabas. Then there was a Simeon. His nickname means black, so I'm assuming he was a man of color. Lucius was a proselyte from North Africa, also probably of color. So he was a Jew, but he was a Greek first. Then there was this guy named Manayan, and he was a sagacy who grew up in an aristocratic setting, which was amazing. Yeah, and they were, I read before that he was thought to be a foster child of Herod, the Tetra. Herod Antibis, that's right, exactly. So it's quite the diverse group.

And then they set apart Saul and they fast and they pray and they lay hands on them. And not necessarily the miraculous laying of hands as we've looked in the past, but this idea of sending people out, which that's sort of the word apostle meant, is the one who has sent. And so then the two of them, verse four, are sent on their way by the Holy Spirit. They went down to Solution, and they sailed from there to Sipar. So this is their first journey. When they arrived at Salamis, they proclaimed the Word of God in the Jewish synagogues. This is going to be their pattern.

This is what they always kind of start. I think it's because they share a common ground with the Jews because of Yahweh, but they're here to share about Jesus. Here's John Mark, who's Barnabas' cousin. He was with him as their help. They traveled through the whole island until they came to Paphis. There they made a Jewish sorcerer and false prophet. So he's got sorcerer ability, but he's also false, named Bargesus, who was an attendant

of the pro-consul. Sergius Paulus, Sergius Paulus was his name. So this guy worked for a local official. Roman government. Right, Roman government guy. The pro-consul, an intelligent man sent for Barnabas and Saul because he wanted to hear the word of God. There's your phrase, Jase. He wanted to hear about Jesus.

So here's the setup. This guy who's a man of influence is curious. He's a seeker. But Elimus, or Elimus, the sorcerer, for that is what his name means, opposed them and tried to turn the pro-consul from the face. So right off the bat, you see this opposition that's going to have. happen. It's going to happen over and over and over again. Then Saul, who was also called Paul, this is when he transitions to his Roman name, which, by the way, Saul was his Jewish name, Paul was his Roman name. So now we're seeing that he's shifting his emphasis.

I'm glad you clarified that because we got a little pushback people when we talked about the name change. Yeah. Yeah, there's a Greek name. He was always Paul. Yeah, that was just his Roman name. And look, the name didn't change. The name didn't change. Yeah, so we may have misspoke on the previous podcast. Well, we probably... Which is why we say, we could be wrong. We could be wrong.

But look, and people get hung up on something like that. But really, he always, Saul was who he was. He was just emphasized as a Jewish guy before. Well, I think I said that, but I meant his name change. If someone had never read the Bible and they missed this one verse, they're going to think, well, who is this Paul? Yeah. was he? No, it's the Saul. You know, we didn't go into detail that he would, he probably had two names, but from the Bible, I don't think he's ever mentioned Saul again after this point. He's not.

So, but we were looking, we were looking after the people who were just arriving. Right. And it's also easy to see why Luke would, would change the narrative because this is his first missionary journey into the Gentile world. So he's going to much more focus on his. Roman backing. Let's take our last book. So Saul, who is also called Paul, is filled with the Holy Spirit. He looked straight at Elamus, and he said, you are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right. Nothing like Paul to be subtle. You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? And remember this guy had a Jewish background, but, I mean, Paul is holding nothing back.

Now, the hand of the Lord is against you, and this is interesting for a man who was blinded and brought back to light. You are going to be blind, and for a time, you will be unable to see the light of the sun. So he struck this man with the very thing that he was struck with. Yeah, he's going to just give him what he thinks he needs. That's exactly right.

And Paul experienced it. Immediately missed and darkness came over him, which is an interesting way of putting it. And he groped about seeking someone to lead him by the ham. You can imagine this guy who was all puffed up and powerful as he worked for this powerful guy. When the pro-consul saw what had happened, he believed, and he was amazed at the teaching about the Lord.

So it had quite the effect on the boss, ma'am. Every time I hear this story, I remember hearing a preacher one time tell a story about him and his wife were going and doing a, seminar somewhere and they had some hecklers and it was but it was so vile he didn't go into the details that when they were getting out of the vehicle and going inside that his wife who he said is is not confrontational usually but he said it was just the filthiest nastiest stuff coming out of these people's mouths with signs and and I guess it was something some political it could have been

pro-life or something the passions were ratcheted up yeah and he said here's my wife she just stops and walks over to the most vile one and said in the name of Jesus Christ I curse you and he said I thought what are you doing you're going to get us killed you know And she just turned around. And so it made me think of that verse in 1st, Corinthians 16. There's an end of this story that's quite amazing. But when Paul wrote to the Corinthians and it says, it's like the last verse in 1st, and 16th, oh, it's 22.

If anyone who does not love the Lord, a curse be on him. Come, oh, Lord. So I was thinking maybe that's where she got that from. But anyway, he said, so, you know, we went in and didn't have any problems after that. He said, a couple weeks later, he's at his local church, and they're like, you know, there's a phone call for you. Well, this guy, same guy, who the woman called down the curse, it's him on the phone. Which he thought what I would think. All right, we, my wife has declared war here.

And what's his own now. Yeah. And he said, but as the conversation started, this guy said, look, I want to apologize because whatever your wife did, the last two weeks have been the worst two weeks of my life. Whoa. Yeah. And look. And you're still one of the question.

Thank you for what it is. I heard it in a sermon. So, I mean, I'm just telling you what I told. But he said, I feel like I need to hear more about. what y'all are doing you know so this guy was curious now because of the results of this yeah i mean you know i'm just i'm only reported i could be wrong that's the story or he could be wrong but yeah i just thought man what a always think about that when i read that because he brought this up in this and he's like there's just times in your life where you just have to say something and

the vehement passion that he has towards the power and work of God, and I don't blame him a bit. You know, just think about the opportunity they have here to share Jesus with a Roman governor, and you got this guy making it difficult, and I think in that moment under the influence, God led him to say something like that in. Well, and I think Paul realized he should have been a guy,

at least understanding from their both sharing a Jewish background that we've got an opportunity here to make a difference in a guy's life. And I'll say this as a guy who has spent my life trying to reach people and help people, the one thing that gets my dander up and gets me pretty hot, you know, righteous anger is when I see someone blocking the faith and faith opportunities of someone else. That really bothers me too. And Jason, you and I have been apart through our early years, especially when we were full of them and vigor. to go and debate, which I'm not much of a debater as much anymore. But when I was young, I did a lot more. But usually it was over because someone was being blocked from a better way. And some person was getting in the way with some kind of crazy stuff that didn't matter a hill of beans.

I was in Jamaica in college. I was a very new Christian when I had a lot of vinegar. Something in vinegar, that's the term. I used the word Vim. as a nicer way. Yeah. Yeah. I had a little bit that in me.

I had just come to Christ. But you guys remember because y'all were like very instrumental in myself and Jepta coming to Christ. And then the countless Bible studies. I mean, I learned how to share the gospel by sitting in the living room, which is kind of, by the way, with this podcast is a memory of that. What I grew up with. And so we're in Jamaica on a mission trip. My first mission trip, we were in the middle of, um, it's called Moron.

Bay, I think was the name of it. There's, I mean, it was not a touristy area. And we had, like, revival services. And this guy came to the revival service. He heard the, he did hear the gospel, like 100%. The gospel was preached. He heard it. And he wanted to be baptized.

And so the guy that was leading the mission group wouldn't baptize him. And so we were all kind of waiting after the service for the baptism to take place. and nothing happens. So then I'm like, hey, what's the deal? Why is this guy not, why is he not getting bad? What happened? And they said, well, he didn't want to come to this church. He wanted to stay at the church where his family, the rest of his family went.

I said, well, what's the issue? Well, they don't, they speak in tongues at that church. And I said, I thought that we didn't believe that you could speak in tongues. And they said, well, we don't. I said, well, then how are they doing it? And that the guy was so bad. But he would not baptize this guy because he was going to go to a church, back to a church that didn't have the right theology. And whether the theology on speaking in tongues was correct or incorrect, like, I'm like, this is a man who saw his sin.

He saw his need for Jesus. He was broken and grasping for the grace of God saying, save me. And we're like, oh, we're not going to, we're not going to participate. Because we're not sure about where you're going to land. Yeah. So he said, and the guy was like, are you telling me how to do my job? The preacher that was leading the trip, and I was, of course, young and arrogant. I said, hey, I'll tell you this much.

I'm not telling you how to do your job. And if somebody's eternal blood was on my hands, I'm not going to sell them short of the gospel. Of course, he didn't like that. But at least you didn't strike him with blindness. No, I didn't strike it was blindness. But I mean, but I do think that, like, I mean, it's true, though. I mean, we get into these theological debates. The theology is important.

But when someone comes to saving faith, we got to, we got to, we got to lead them to Jesus. And they don't have to get it right to come to Jesus. It's the opposite. They come to Jesus to get it right. I think we've got to remember that. Yeah. Yeah, I think we always should err on the side of grace in those matters. But I will say this.

When you are this bold, and I've been this bold many times, you do get persecuted. And I've just thought back on my life. I mean, I've been shot at. I have death threats. I've been physically assaulted. I've had my stuff vandalized, you know, just in the heat of the moment. And you have too, Phil. And I wasn't calling someone a devil.

I was just sharing Jesus. I still love them all. Exactly. But I think that's what creates this attitude of persecution from people. people is when you take a stand. I mean, it's just going to happen. So this led to the first convert here that we read about on this mission trip. And so we're going to fulfill that even more. Next time we get back into this text, we're going to talk about this first sermon.

And there's some really interesting stuff. Jases jumped ahead and alluded to a little bit of it. Also, hopefully next time we get together, one of our podcasts, we got Jeff coming in. Speaking of the old days, Zach, with a man with an amazing story from Ethiopia. So we got a lot of good stuff coming. We'll check it out next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to Blaze TV at blazedtv.com slash Unashamed.