Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 879 | Jase Has a ‘Stop the Chariot’ Moment with the Smallbones & Encouraging Christian Artists

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

Jase came out in support of the movie "Unsung Hero" by the Smallbones on the red carpet, and Phil is impressed by the way Christian artists, actors, and filmmakers are able to get the message of Jesus across the world. The guys encourage Christians to support each other in artistic mediums so there will be more faith-based content for everyone. The guys also discuss the similarities in cultural moments between our current society and societies in Acts with the combining of Jewish and gentile churches. In this episode: Acts 14; Acts 15; Matthew 28:19; Galatians 1, verses 12-24; Galatians 2, verses 11-13; Romans 12, verses 3-18; Revelation 2, verses 20-24 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashame. I'm still here in the lair with that. Because, you know, we do two podcasts when we record, so we've kind of got the same set up. Jace is still up in, is it Columbia, Jays? Is that what you call it? Yeah, it's Columbia. It's the best city you've never heard of or been at. Yeah. And Zach is obviously still in Black Mountain. So Jace, remind everybody, because you talked about in the last podcast, why you're up there and not with us today.

Well, yeah, since we do two podcasts together and they won't be released for a while, the reason I'm here is to promote for King and Country's movie about their family, the small bones. The last name you will never forget. In fact, when Zach sent me a text and said, because I knew that for King and Country

and Rebecca St. James were coming on the podcast, but I didn't I didn't know their name their last name was small bones so when he sent me a text and said we got the small bones coming on the podcast I thought it was some kind of type you know how you're when you text like it's their literal name their last name is small bones so but they're big people they have they have big bones because they're very tall people's well yeah that was awkward but it's true I was like and I mean they're not huge big Be small, but I mean. Was their last day there. I will say this. By the time this podcast airs, the movie will be in theaters. And I really am asking you to go see it. Unsung hero.

I'm not promoting this movie because I'm getting paid or I literally sent on the text. How much money are you getting paid? Yeah, Jay's what is your cut on this? Give us a full disclosure. What's, what's? Drum roll. Zero. You know, every, every once in a while, thank you.

Every once in a while you meet people who you just can't help but see that they love Jesus and they want to get him out in the world. And since we're kind of traveling in that same circle, I just want to support and help what they're doing. And Jay, Zah, I can speak to it from, because Lisa really loves their music and listens to it all the time. And I've listened to a little of it, but I'm not like a huge fan going into this. and yet the movie moved me deeply. So I can speak to it, and I is being a fan of either one of them in particular until now, but the movie is amazing.

And another thing, Zach, and you being a filmmaker now, is that I noticed, it was about maybe 30 minutes into the movie. I looked over and told Lisa, I was like, because of our film and some others recently have come out, Jesus Revolution, a bunch of other films, I told Lisa, I was like,

we've turned the corner on filmmaking, for faith films and telling great stories, but not cheesy and not bad acting. I mean, this movie is very well made. The cinematography is beautiful, just like our film was, and the acting is incredible. So including Joel, who I had never met Joel, and I wasn't a fan of there. So about a third of the way through the movie, Lisa says, Joel is such an amazing actor. And I was like, Joel, the son, he's in the movie. And she said, he's playing the dad.

So when you say you weren't a fan, like, I'm not, are you saying like, I wasn't a fan of those guys? No, I mean, like, I just wasn't that aware of them. I didn't like follow on. Yeah. So I'm a big fan now. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I mean, okay, their family has a weird brother. Joel.

Well, look at my family. I can just give you a list of weirdness. But it makes life fun. Beginning with the mirror. And I really love it when really weird. people love Jesus. Yeah. It just makes life interesting.

So I want to give a little sermon here because, look, I'm just going to be honest. People who follow Jesus a lot of times, especially when they get older, they watch the news way too much and they sit around and great how the world is just going downhill and a hurry like a snowball. But when you have an opportunity to support Jesus loving people who are unashamed about it, we should stop the chariot. And I'm bringing that up because one of our good friends, the only person that I ever shared the gospel with that I didn't know it

because he was in the next room listening, Kevin McIntosh, who sends me frequent texts about the podcast from time to time. He left the people, he had in the, he cracked the door while you were talking to the other four or five. playing a video game, I think. He literally came to Jesus secretly because we didn't even know he was in the room.

And after the gospel presentation was complete, he opened the door and said, I'm ready. And I said, I said, for what? And he said, I'm ready, we need to find some water. That was hit. This is just how it happened. I spent 45 minutes talking about Jesus. We talked about the response, and he said, we need to find some water. So the reason I'm bringing his name up is a few podcasts ago, according to him, because I forgot that I did this.

When we were in Acts chapter 8, when Philip and the Ethiopian unit had their encounter, and Philip told him the good news of Jesus, end I quote. He told him the good news of Jesus. and they traveled down the road and the eunuchs said, look, here's water. Why shouldn't I be baptized? And do you remember what Philip said?

He said, stop the chariot. And I said, that should go on a shirt. Somebody needs to have a shirt. So McIntosh sent me a pitcher of himself in a shirt that said, Stop the chariot. And I said,

Your words come alive again, Jay's. But he didn't give me the context. I said, I've been saying for years we should put that on a shirt. He said, yeah, I heard you say that on the podcast, so I went and made the shirt. And I was like, awesome. It looks fantastic. But I was going to make a point, Phil, that I think movies like this where Jesus loving people make a movie in our culture and everything we do see around in our world sometimes is really bad. I think these are the times where the church of Jesus should stop the chariot and go support this movie.

We should sell out every theater and it should be Christian people saying this is the kind of stuff we want to watch. Yeah. So I'm using the Stop the Chariot mantra in this moment. Stop the chariot and go watch the movie and support these people. You look back at the last 20 years of Christian film. I mean, that's why I'm not hard on what we would call the cheesy Christian films because I'm like, when they, a lot of these started with zero, I mean, infrastructure built out of. And they were, you know, they were kind of like trailblazers that went in and showed.

There's an audience here. There's people who, who want to see these types of films over the last 20 years. You know, that's started to develop. And mainly because people do go out and see these films. And which if you notice, the quality keeps getting better and better. There was a, there was a point in Christian history when, when the church was the epicenter of art. And for a lot of different reasons, we won't get into in the podcast. So that that, that, that changed. But I love the fact that the church in the last 20 years has been, wait a second,

we need to be involved in the arts. We need to be involved in philosophy. We need to be involved in culture at every level, if we're truly kingdom people. So I love it. And so I would agree, Jace. I mean, just honestly, just supporting these types of films make, it does make it more possible to create, to advance the art. And let's face it, I mean, we are, we are shaped by the stories that we entertain ourselves with. We are shaped by the music that we listen to. We are, we are shaped by the books that we read. And so we need to be in these spaces telling a better story, a bigger story that really is that transcends kind of this, our cultural moment and moves people closer to who God is.

But you make a good point, Zay, because you have to be, an industry has to build. You go back and look at the movies I grew up with from the 60s and the 70s. You're talking about cheesy and bad acting. And I'm talking about just Hollywood in general. I mean, you would have the rare movie that came along that was well-acted or, you know, well-done. But go back and watch some of those movies. Most of them do not hold up very well at all. I mean, you know, I was a huge John Wayne fan.

But let's face it, you know, John Wayne wasn't the greatest actor. And his kids certainly weren't. And yet he's an icon in my mind. But when I go back and watch the movies, they're pretty cheesy. it takes time to build an industry. It takes talent, it takes money. It takes all those things. And so I think you're right, Zach. I think it's shifted that we realize that we've got a story to tell is Jesus's story and it's about him. But we can do that in a way that makes sense and looks great and impacts people is not that way. So our industry has grown to that, which is, and praise God for that. Jay's is right,

though. If we don't support it and we don't go see it, all we do is sit around and complain about not having more of but then we're not going to get anything done. Yeah. We think of what these various people wrote, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, Matthew, all authority in heaven. Jesus is talking, I have all the authority that's been given to me. Therefore, go make disciples of all nations, baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Teach them to obey everything I've commanded you. And surely I'll be with you always to the end of the age.

Well, if you just look at it from 2024 to now, they did a fantastic job on caring out what he told them to do. Two thousand years later. Some doubted, but I mean, if you look at it, you say it's never been anything that spread across the world, in my opinion, there's been nothing to touch it. Yeah. To the utter ends of the earth, right? Hundreds of millions. powerful thing. Well, that's what I say.

I'm sure they're going to suffer the small bones, the same persecution that we suffer for being unashamed for Jesus. That's why I think the church should rally around them. Even where we're at in Acts 14, which I think a couple podcasts, we told the story of the, you know, Paul Hills a guy. And all of a sudden, the culture, you know, they're like, oh, they're, they're gods. and they bow down and worship.

You have the Zeus and Hermes who are just made up characters, but they're like, this is them. And so, you know, then they humble themselves, and they're like, this is about Jesus. But when you go to the end of the story in verse 19, some Jews came from Antioch and Iconium and won the crowd over. They stone Paul and dragged him outside the city thinking he was dead. I mean, they went from thinking their fantasy gods to stoning them.

And I love this next verse. I mean, this is awesome. But after the disciples had gathered around him, he got up and went back into the city. I mean, you know, what a profound moment here. You would think to have all that happen and then you get stone, you're fearing for your life. and you get up and survive. No, you get up and you go right back in there. And I think that's what we're called to do in our current culture

is to keep laying out positive, God-centered, Jesus-focused material in our culture. And yes, at risk of persecution, but we just keep going back and doing it. So it leads to one of the most famous passages before Al kind of gives us a review in Acts 14. in verse 22 when it says they were strengthening disciples and encouraged them to remain true to the faith. And then I think this is probably the most famous verse in Acts 14, or in this section, 13, 14 and 15.

It says, we must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God. So it's not like he's calling us to do things that's going to make us comfortable. When you declare Jesus, there are going to be many. hardships and a lot of suffering and a lot of pushback. Yep. So, but I just think this is, this is what we're called to do. That's why he's given us his spirit and we have the message of Jesus and we go do it and persecution will come.

But that's why we need each other in the church to support these types of interests. And you read, you read what's going on here. You think whatever persecution we're facing, I'm like, it could be worse. I mean, you know what these guys were going through. And I always think, man, we, like, it could be worse. but would we have that same type of character and confidence to pull through the Great Commission that Phil read about earlier? Would we shrink back or would we be like these guys? So I do think that I read this with actually encouragement because I'm thinking, you know,

I mean, look at what the circumstances that they were under in which they held firm to the call of the gospel. It's, I mean, it's incredible that it was in that environment that all of this, we're participating in now was birth. Before we get back into our text and talk about it, I do want to mention the dad mentioned his book, I could be wrong, but I doubt it. And there's I could be wrong, but I doubt it.com is where you can go to be able to get that. And the book is doing great, by the way. It's another way to support.

And our old friend Bob DeMoss, dad, sent me a picture from the Atlanta airport of your book in one of the bookstores. And I thought it was interesting because your book, so here's a picture of dad. I could be wrong, but I doubt him. And Maddie will put this up on the screen. And it's right in between a book called Empire of the Damned on one side and the other side is bridesmaids for hire. So I don't know what genre. It's a wacky world out there.

It just struck me when I saw that. I thought bad out there's a lot of books out there with a lot of ideas. dad, but I can guarantee you one thing. I don't know about Bridesmaids for Hired or Empire of the Dam, but I know this. This book is about Jesus, and it gives you basically nine pictures of Jesus and who he is. And, man, all the books you've done that are great, but this is probably my favorite. I've had old Dash over there, had his dad. He's in there.

He's the one that actually put it together, and I'd read some and say, I don't know about that. he said, I take that, we call that. What about this? And back and forth. Me and his dad over and over and over.

So when I went to Zach, when we were in Dallas last week, I went to Barnes & Noble. We had a few minutes before we ate that amazing port shop. And Lisa and I were looking at Barnes & Noble, and I found it in there as well. So the book is out there. It's doing really well.

I just want to encourage you guys again. Not only is it a great book for you, need to read it, but it's also in support of what we're trying to do. It explains what Jesus means. what Jesus meant in the book of Acts. It does. And it was a great way to sort of cap where you started with theft and got to this point of Jesus. So anyway, check it out. And there's still copies out there for you to grab if you

hadn't gotten one already. All right, let's go back to Acts. And let me just kind of, Jace read here in Acts 14 what's happening. Remember, this is the first missionary journey of Paul and Barnabas. And so he's going through. And so we kind of I talked about the different cities and he got into these different things. But one of the overriding things that's going to happen that's going to lead us into what we're going to be talking about today on the podcast, which is out of Acts 15, is that every since Peter went to Cornelius back in Acts chapter 10, who remember was the Gentile Centurian and shared the gospel and the Holy Spirit fell on them, just like it did in the back of the day of Pentecost in Acts 2.

this has been a seismic shift in what's going on with the early church because now of a sudden they've realized in reality what Jesus and the prophets, by the way, in the Old Testament, have been prophesying that this kingdom is going to be more than just Jews. It's going to be everybody. And so when Jesus told him, you're going to start here, you know, in Judea, and then you're going to go to Samaria, and then you're going to go to the ends of the earth. This is end of the earth time. And so right at the end of Acts 14, when Paul is back in Antioch, which is kind of now, we described this before, wouldn't you say, Jason, it's fair to say that the shift has happened from the Jerusalem church to the church in Antioch and in terms of impact, because this is where Paul and Barnabas are leaving from.

Before everything was, everything was centered around Jerusalem, because that's where the disciples were. That's where it all started. It's right along in here. By the time you get to Romans 12, the Apostle Paul comes up with this. He said, look, in the church, Romans chapter 12, just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, he fixed to explain how the church is going to work. So in Christ, we who are many form one body as this spread. and it spread worldwide big time in the last 2,000 years.

And each member belongs to all the others, no matter where they're from, if they got Jesus, says, Lord, we're with them. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. Different gifts. Everybody's the same. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith.

If it's serving, he has serving right next to prophesying that shows you the power. of just being good to your neighbor and understand they're a member of the same kingdom you are. If it's teaching, let him teach. These are all gifts. If it's encouraging, you'd say, let him encourage. You wouldn't think someone says there are people who are very good encouraging people, just the way they are. Well, you wouldn't think of that as a gift, but it's a tremendous gift. If it's contributing to the needs of others financially, time, whatever. Let him give generously. If it's leadership, let him govern diligently.

You know, you're going to have different variants of people in the kingdom. If it's showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully. Things you wouldn't think about with just a group getting together. That's pretty powerful stuff. Just here's what you'll see. Right. And he's reminded him. That's Romans chapter 12. But after Acts, they need that. Has it all put together? Right. And you're right.

It's not real structured if you look at it. The structure of it is just the ones who have faith in Jesus. And they show it by what they do. And it might be just people who have a real good showing mercy saying, well, they don't attack him and, you know, ride him out on the, you know, be kind to him. So good to it. Small stuff. You'd think.

You paint a really good picture, which is what. but Paul did as well of what this looks like when we're not worried about our nationality, our gender, all the things, our color, all the things separate us, because everything you just mentioned, none of that matters. It's not a lot of rules and regulations at all. So I love it. The picture you show at the end of Romans is the picture we all want, right? That's the picture of unity.

That shows what happens. So we're at the beginning point of that, but that's exactly what the end looks. It's called offering your body as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual worship. You wonder what all this is about. It's so simple that it's profound there, Zach, you know? It is. It is.

Well, yeah, he goes on to say, you know, in Romans 15, accept one another then as Christ has accepted you. Because that section that you just read, Phil, the first verse of that in verse three, he was like, for by the grace given me, I say to all of you, don't think of your, yourselves more highly than you should. And that's what's going on here in Acts. That is correct. The Jews from Jerusalem. You have this pagan world in Antioch.

It's the opposite of worship at a place. And then you throw in there and then you get out of there. It's not life changing. Yeah, I did a little study on grace because you wouldn't think, because, you know, somebody made the point that loves never mentioned in the book of Acts. which is an interesting thought. But the spirit, you know, love is the fruit of the spirit. In America now or back when Paul wrote this, don't we pay anyone evil for evil? This is still what the church will look like.

Be careful to do what's right in the eyes of everybody. Think about that one. If it's possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. That's how the kingdom people operate. Well, that's a lot better than the way they currently operate across the world. Oh, yeah. I don't know about it. I was going to make the point that when you get to chapter 15, all of a sudden,

they run upon a group of people that are like, well, you can, you know, the Gentiles can be in, but they need to be circumcised. And so it becomes kind of a nationalistic thing. Well, let me, hey, before you say that, let me read that, because that's very powerful, the point you just made. Where are you going to start? I'm going to start just at the end of 14, but let's take a break forward. Acts 1427 to set what Jason is about to get into.

On arriving there, back in Antioch, they gathered the church together and reported all that God had done through them and how he had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles. And they stayed there a long time with the disciples. So that's the setup. It's going so well, and so many people are being reached, if they come back with this amazing report, man, this is exciting.

This is exactly what Jesus had, you know, in mind. And then look at 15 verse 1. Right out of that, some men came down from Judea. That's up in Jerusalem to Antioch. And we're teaching the brothers unless you are circumcised. Here we go. According to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be safe. So, I mean, to your point, dad, about the modern.

And how many times have you seen it where something so good is happening? Holy Spirit is just, I mean, we're in an area of something good. And all of a sudden some brother shows up from somewhere. And Debbie Downer puts the wet blanket on and says, nope, you know, it has to be done a different way. So, Jace, that's the setup to what you were about to say. Go ahead. Well, that was my point about bringing up the news and how it translates to our modern culture. You know, you just get negative.

And even among people who are fellow believers, you start trying to add rules to what Jesus is offering. And what I was going to say is that you don't realize how much grace is discussed in the book of Acts, because I looked them up in Acts 2.47, my translation says they enjoyed the favor of each other, but it's the same word for grace. Because they were showing grace to each other despite their differences. And this was the first group who pretty much you would think had most incommission. because they were all Jews.

But even as it goes along, you have Acts 433, Acts 6,8, Acts 7, 46, Acts 11, 23, Acts 13, 43, I mean, 11, 23, 13, 43. Then you have 143. But then even in Chapter 15 here, he's going to bring it up twice. In 1511, I was going to read these two. Yeah, 1511 is a biggie, because this is true. Peter's reaction to this whole situation once they got to Jerusalem. Yeah, because it's the response to them saying, oh, you have to be circumcised,

and it's okay that you're in Jesus, but you also have to be circumcised. To be saved? Yeah, to be safe. In verse 11, it says, no, we believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved just as they are. And then he doubles down on that in verse 40 when he says, but Paul chose Silas and left commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. And he goes on to mention it in 1827 and 20 and 24.

So there's all of them. But it just made me realize that passage in Ephesians 2, where it says, you're saved by grace. And it is the gift of God, which is you're going to say, what does that mean? It's kind of like the passage that we're going to get to in Acts 16, when they run up on Lydia, who was from Thiterra, because it says she was a believer.

This is a strange conversion in the book of Acts. It says she's a believer, because we're going to talk about that in detail. And I'm having trouble seeing my writing here. It's in verse 11, 1611, I follow. So in 1611, just let me read this real quick. it says, because it's going to tie in to the problems that are going to be discussed in Acts 15 about putting these extra rules on and kind of coming up with a solution to getting along in Jesus. Starting in verse 13, Joe.

So in verse 13, it says of chapter 16, on the Sabbath, we went outside the city gate to the river where we expected to find a place of prayer. We sat down and began to speak to the women who had gathered there. One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thiterra, which is going to become interesting that the city and the church in Thightara that she came from, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. And that's the point I wanted to make about grace being a gift.

It's a gift that God gives us, which is part of why he uses that to open. open our heart. Oh, this is about God saving me, not anything I can do because at this point, she's just worshiping God. And so he opens her heart. And then in verse 15, when she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. And she says, if you consider me a believer in the Lord, she said, come and stay at my house. Did I skip 15? No, you got 15. Yeah, when she and her members. They were baptized.

She invited us to her home. Yeah. And she persuaded us. I just thought it was an interesting. It's another stop the chariot moment of here's a worshiper. And she came from a place where they had these same difficulties that's being discussed in Acts 15. But before I get into that, I think it's more important for you to lay out Al what the issues were. I mean, it started off circumcision.

He doubled down on grace, and then they come up with a solution because they didn't want divisions in the church. And look, just like back then, when divisions happen in the church, it's not good for anybody. I mean, how much is in the New Testament about being unified in Jesus? Yeah, because it was going to take away from their mission. So what happens is they sent, when these guys come down, they start teaching them. and they're saying basically they're adding circumcision to the gospel, which that's going to speak to that from the book of Galatians. So that's what we see happening. So what happens is they send a group back to Jerusalem, Paul and Barnabas are among them, among a few of the other brothers, to talk with the apostles about this and the leaders of the Jerusalem church.

Because they're like, look, I mean, the church in Jerusalem is the same church in Antioch, but we can't be, we got to get square on this thing. We can't say gospel plus anything. So they go back there. And I thought it was interesting where the process works. And I've been a leader in the church a long time. And it's interesting because when we hear something, we're like, oh, wait a minute, we need to pray and think about this. In verse 6 of 15, it says, the apostles and elders met to consider the question. So in other words, they took it serious enough to say, all right, let's get together.

Let's talk about this. because if we add this, then we've added something that God said don't add. And then Peter comes back with the verse you read Jays and says, no. So then Paul and Barnabas, they tell what all they've been doing. Then James, who is assumed to be James, the brother of Jesus, who wrote the book of James, he's one of the elders there at the church. He comes back and says, look, first he quotes a verse out of Amos, which says, look, the Gentiles are in.

And then it's interesting because he said, but there are some things we do need. So circumcision is out in terms of being a litmus for being saved. But there are some things going on that we need to address. And he mentions them in verse 20. He says, we should write to these brothers. And he's talking about the brothers in Antio, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, and from the meat of strangled animals from blood. These are things that are going on.

And he says, we do need to deal with some lifestyle and cultural issues that are going on with the Gentiles. But we're not going to make circumcision a litmus. So they write a letter. They send it back to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas and a couple of the brothers there. This is first time we meet Silas, which is going to become part of Paul's team later. And they go back, they read this letter, and they deal with some of these things that are going on. But the brothers back in Antioch are very encouraged by the letter they get. So it does provide the unity, J.S.

You were describing me. But it also provides some new things they need to think about that they haven't. Because now I was somewhere on this new frontier culturally, and there's a few things they need to deal with. So that's kind of what happens as a result of this chapter. Which I think is good when you read the book of Acts to understand that it is kind of like a look at. a look into what's going on, like a bird's eye view of more the history of, you know,

the church. But then you get into these letters that Paul wrote, and also not just Paul, but that they fit into acts. And so, and it's debatable. You know, obviously when you start, you try to line up timelines with this.

There's vigorous debate on it. I think it's, it's okay to have that debate. These are not like issues that are going to, to sink the whole thing of when, you know, at what point in the book of Acts is this whole thing in Galatians taking place. That's debatable. I'll give you, you know, one, one thought on it and just a second. But I think more importantly is we do know the issue that's going on. We know there's an issue in the book of Acts that's unfolding that they, the Gentiles are being included

into God's kingdom that we are seeing the fulfillment of all the, the Gentiles, the Gentiles, the Old Testament prophecies about a multi-ethic kingdom happening right here. We know that there's issues with that, as you can imagine, right? I mean, you're bringing two cultures together and there's stuff happening. There's people that are like, wait a second, like, you've got to be circumcised. When you think about the importance of circumcision in the Old Testament, I mean, we look at it with hindsight 2020 because we can see it in the past and, yeah, we see it perfectly. but if you're in that moment in your cultural view of things, your worldview, your entire life,

I mean, the importance of circumcision was the sign of the covenant. So you can understand that that probably would have been a difficult thing to kind of move out of the Sabbath, all the things that would have been difficult when including another ethnic group into God's promise and seeing that unfold. You can imagine how difficult that would have been. Speaking of that, Zach, you know, they had to be, if you were proselyted from a Gentile to a Jew, you had to undergo circumcision, even as an adult. So this had always been practiced. This was your way in.

So now that we're in this new era of Christianity, they just assume, well, of course you've got to first become, you know, understand Yahweh before you can ever get into Christ. So I just wanted to clarify that, that they would have been, everybody, Gentile that ever became a Jew, did so by being circumcised. So that makes the point stronger even. And we have the ability now to read Galatians. So we can actually go read Paul's argument in Galatians, but they didn't have that argument. They didn't have the letter until the letter was written. So we're, like I said, we have hindsight 2020 so we can see into the book of Bax and be like, yeah, you idiots, why didn't you just read Galatians? Well, maybe the letter hadn't been written yet. That's right. And so there, there,

Here's kind of an interesting timeline. And again, debatable. So where are you following this? I mean, I'm not putting my flag in the sand saying this is the timeline, but it does help us to put some type of context. So you have Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus. He references that. We do know this part.

That's Galatians 1, 12 through 17, where Paul talks about that. That's Acts 9. Paul's first visit to Jerusalem would be Galatians 1, 18 through 24. because what Paul is doing in Galatians is he's kind of laying out his case, right? And that's in Acts 9, 26 through 30. And then his second visit to Jerusalem is corresponding with Acts 11, 27 through 30. And then he has the confrontation with Peter that's in the book of Galatians in chapter 2, 11 through 14. We don't see that in the book of Acts.

I mean, we know it happened because it's in the letter, but we don't actually see it in the book of Acts. And so the thought is that this Acts 15, verse 1 through 35, this Jerusalem council happens after Paul wrote the book of Galatians. And it was to officially resolve the question, the issue that was at hand in the reason why Paul wrote the letter in the first place. So I say that because I think it's important for us to go look at how Paul deals with the circumcision issue because we see that next 15, right? in addition to putting your faith in Christ, you've got to be circumcised too. That's what Paul is getting into. So in the last podcast,

when we said, we started, we were talking about something else that at the time I thought was off topic. It's funny how it wasn't off topic, but when he says, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than one you receive from us, let him be eternally condemned. Let him be a cursed,

depending on the translation you read. But what was the gospel? What was he talking about there? What Paul was addressing there is someone saying, that you have to, you're saved by the death burial and the resurrection of Jesus, and then you fill in the blank. In this case, it happened to be circumcision. And so that's what he's addressing. And he says when he opposed Peter right to his face, because he saw that he was not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, because he was siding up with the Judaizers.

So that's the, that's the backdrop. And then he gives the argument for why this is unbiblical or why this is contrary to the gospel in verse 15 is how he starts to begin it. And essentially it's this. We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners. Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law, but through faith in Jesus Christ. I mean, that's it. And then he goes on to explain what that is. But the whole thing is hinged on this that we have to remember that what a person is saved by is not based on your ethnicity or your adherence to the law.

What justifies a person is faith in Jesus Christ. It's called faith alone is what justifies us. And that's the point that I think we're getting to. We can unpack that if we want because he goes on obviously in Galatians to unfold that even more. No, that was, no, I think you're exactly right. That's, that's the crux of the mad that he's talking about here. And he's so strong about it that, I mean, he says, look, we can't add anything to this. What's interesting is when you follow his missionary journeys, as we're going to continue to do in the book of Acts, he had different ways of dealing with this topic and this subject with different people. He had, remember, he had Timothy to get circumcised. Timothy was a son of a Greek and Jewish. His mom was Jewish, his dad was Greek. And so he told him, he said, you know, it's probably be best for what we're trying to accomplish to what you're trying to accomplish to be circumcised.

But he told Titus, under no means are you to be circumcised. So even contextually is interesting when you're talking about trying to get the message out that the issue doesn't become bigger than Jesus, which is a consistent point we've been talking about through this whole context. Let's take our last break. I was going to bring that same point up in a weird twist of faith in chapter 15. He's like, you're saved by grace. You don't have to be circumcised.

And then in the first paragraph of chapter 16, he circumcises Timothy. Timothy. And so you're like, wait, what? But there's something to be said. You remember when Paul said in a Corinthian letter, you know, I've become all things to all men, though somehow I may save some. Yeah. And really, Zach had a very good point about how the New Testament letters to the churches answer a lot of these questions.

I mean, when you think about the freedom that you have, you know, you read Romans 14 and 15, and especially in First Corinthians, they had all these debates about eating these foods that were sacrificed to idols. And remember, he's like, don't use your freedom when you're around a weaker brother. to cause them to stumble. And he said it's actually sin if you do that. Just because you're free to do something, does it mean that you should for the unity of the faith?

And that's why this is so confusing. And nowhere else on the planet are you going to go to a podcast and hear somebody talk about Acts 15 in this detail? Because people don't like it. It's uncomfortable because he lists these four things that they basically compromised on saying, okay, you don't have to be circumcised and get in. But now hear me out.

Don't be eating food that are sacrificed to idols, you Gentiles, because the Jews are just not going to be able to put up with that. And if you think about why he's putting that in there, it's a good point. Why are you, as a follower of Jesus, enjoying food that are sacrificed to an idol? Yeah, why would you acknowledge the idol? Right. Yeah, that's just not. And then when you get in this, then they're like, well, they throw sexual immorality. there. Now there's a lot of views on what he meant, you know, saying that there were loopholes in the

Jewish system where they were, you know, marrying their cousin or whatever, which I think a great analogy of what that means is found in Revelation chapter 2. And it was when John wrote through the Holy Spirit and Jesus spoke to the church that was at Thytaria, which is where Lydia was from. That's why I read that. But before I read that, well, then he throws in about this drinking blood and eating the food of strangled animals. And really when you think, well, what is all that? I mean, you have Jesus' sacrifice. You have the old sacrifices that were given under Judaism. But it's just not a good look for the grace of God. When you run upon a bunch of people that are, you know, drinking animal blood.

And it's the kind of stuff you see on movies that make you uncomfortable. You're in Jesus. That system has had a purpose and it's gone. But that gets more into a freedom issue where he's not condemning, you know, if you ate some animal because you were hungry. Which Paul deals with in Romans, right? I mean, he deals with that very issue. That's why I brought up, yeah, all the passages in Romans and Corinthians,

So I'll read this in Revelation because it seems to address from a cultural standpoint in that moment in time the same things that James wrote the letter about because two of them are mentioned specifically. And I'll warn you, this is a withering letter to this church. It's tough. So in Revelation 2. Started in verse 20. So 18, you see that it's two-thi-tahara, which is where Lydia was from. It says in verse 20, nevertheless, I have this against you. You tolerate that woman, Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess.

So here's a woman claiming some divine origin, but look what she does. But her teaching, by her teaching, she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food, sacrifice to eye. titles. So now you're getting a picture of what they were going through. You have somebody claiming to be a representative of God saying, you know, come have sex with me because it's okay. Me and God got something worked out. And it's okay to eat this food. And so then he goes on to say in 21, I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering. And I will make those who commit adultery. with her suffer intensely unless they repent. I will strike her children dead, which is just a graphic statement. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

So I think it gives you a little insight. And he goes on to say that these are secrets of the evil one, you know, in verse 24, I say to the rest of you and Thiterra, to you who do not hold to our teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets. I will not impose any other burden on you, but I think you get the picture, because that's usually what happens in churches with these people who have some kind of special revelation from God, but then you look at their life and you say, wait a minute, something's not adding up here.

They either want my money or they want my wife in bed, you know. And you see that even in our modern culture. So I think that was his point. We're here to represent Jesus and the grace of God. And so there's just some things, even if you can make an excuse to find some kind of freedom or liberty in, the look of it is not what God wants us to be representing. And even him, Jay's bringing up the name Jezebel, is a reference back to First Kings. When there's the original Jezebel, what was she known for?

She was known for having all these bail prophets. Remember it was 850 prophets versus one Elijah. Those were all her prophets. It was all about these cults and sex cults. And everything was about offering sexual immorality to bail. All the things you're talking about, Jesus brings this up in this culture, but this goes all the way back.

It's attacking the idea that somehow you can circumvent submitting to God. and you do so by bringing in other gods. And in this case, even the lifestyle that was going on, this had been going on for a long time. So just by Jesus invoking that name in the challenge to Thyatira, I think it shows you the idea that the elders, that James and the elders were trying to address in this situation. But I'd never link those two together, James,

but I thought that's brilliant that Lydia was from there. It occurs to me that it's a reminder that Satan, never sleeps. That's a great point. Well, exactly. It gives you this, this difference in be like Lydia, not like Jezebel. Right. But it also, when you read Lydia's story, you know, to Phil's point that he made many podcasts ago, you see the importance of baptism here too. She was a, she was a, a worshiper of God. And this all started in chapter 15. Now, now they've moved, you know, to where they're at now. But, The encouragement and importance of baptism does not have anything to do with not accepting that this is the grace of God.

Yeah. This is not something we're adding, you know, being baptized. It's actually the opposite. It's saying you can't do this. You're surrendering. God has given you an opportunity to say, I can't do this on my own. Or it simply wouldn't be in the Bible like this. Why stop this as a worshiper?

and share Jesus and then, you know, baptize her in her whole house. And then she's like talking about, do you consider me a believer? So, you know, there's a joke, you know, don't water down the importance of baptism. You see what I did there? Yeah, I saw that. Because it is something that God's given us an opportunity to do. And in our culture, it's just not convenient or it's not comfortable or somehow people think that it's nullifying the grace of God. And I just don't believe that to be true based on reading that.

I think you're right. People walk down there with us to the baptism pool. I've told you all this before. The number one thing that strikes me when I'm standing there with them, the same two yesterday, two or three of them, it was there, tears. Yep. It makes me feel better when I see the tears. And I'm like, hmm.

Well, I think it becomes real. She knew enough to worship Yahweh, but she didn't know Jesus yet until Paul told her about him. And then that's what you see here in that moment, which that evokes that response. All right, we're out of time yet again. So we'll pick up here. And now we're about to enter into the second missionary journey. We get to chapter 16. So that's where we'll pick up next time on Unashamed.

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