Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 880 | Jase Gets Rebuked by Three Separate Strangers & Phil Has One Thing to Say About It

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

Jase is in the mood to argue with Zach and three strangers who publicly confronted him with disagreements about the Bible. Phil only has one reply to all the disputes, and the guys deeply discuss their personal understanding of the Holy Trinity, how it functions, and what it means to us. Al jokingly accuses Zach of hanging out with them to make himself feel smarter, and Jase comes up with a catchy T-shirt slogan. In this episode: Hebrews 1, verses 3-4; Hebrews 3, verse 1; Hebrews 12, verses 1-2; Hebrews 13, verse 12; Galatians 4, verses 4-6; John 14, verses 15-16; John 16, verses 13-16  -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to Unashame. I was telling Maddie when I got here because Jason wasn't here. And I was like, have we heard from Jay's? Do we know he's still alive? Did he make it back from Nashville? Because we never talked. I said, usually no news is good news.

I figured I would have heard something. So Jason's back in the house. One of the nicest things you've ever said to me. You were actually concerned. I was concerned. and I hadn't heard from you. I wanted to make sure you made it back. You know what that was?

That was the Holy Spirit telling you that I was in numerous discussions about things that we talk about on this podcast. That's what happened. I went out into the world. You did. A little place called Nashville. And I was with a lot of people. So, you know, I'm with people in the airports.

I'm with people on the planes. I went to this event, which I'm really excited. to talk about. Were some of the people that you talked to, were they unashamed listeners? Were they part of unashamed? Well, that's my point, Al. The guy comes up and says,

why do you, y'all keep saying the Holy Spirit is making Jesus known? The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. Now look, it wasn't, hey, how you doing? You know, I'm old. So you're at the, hold on, you're at the event. There's a thousand people here and a man walks up. up and says, I'm not getting it.

And I said, well, did you listen to the last podcast? And which I thought we had talked about it, but upon further review, because I mean, I was a deer in the headlights, I thought, you know, do you want a picture? But I got, I got the, oh, why are you saying that the spirit is making Jesus known? It was like, John 14, he's like, Well, we're at, I mean, I didn't have my Bible. Yeah. Which I had my phone.

And, but I was like, I think Acts 16, and I said it right, I said, I think it says, I think it says the spirit of Jesus. And so I looked, yeah, we didn't talk about it. I thought we did. But in Acts 16, 7, I mean, before I get into what the event was about, I do want to read this for this listener. Let's see When they came to the border They tried to enter How do you say that Al

Whatever that town is Which one? What verse you have? Act 16, 7 Oh yeah I'm terrible at ancient city names Missia I would guess

And then the next one is what Bethenia But the spirit Of Jesus Would not allow them to And you just think, you know, Romans 8, I mean, after I thought about it, Romans 8, I was thinking Romans 8, the Spirit of His Son. Look, Galatians 4. Yep.

Galatians 4 is actually the slam dunk because it gives you a tofer, if I'm not mistaken. You say, what is a tufer? In Galatians 4, 4, it says, but when the time had fully come, God sent his son. So you have God sending Jesus, born of a woman, born under law. So a descendant of David, we'll get into that at some point today. So when you see all that, he was a human. God revealed himself as a human. God, the father, sent his son.

But watch what chapter 4 and verse 6 says, because you are sons, God sent the spirit. Of his son. Oh, well, wait a minute. He sent the son as a human, and now he sent the spirit of his son into our hearts. You said, well, how did that happen? In Galatians 3, 26, and 27, which we've read numerous times, it says, you're all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who are baptized into Christ, have closed yourself with Christ.

So that's what happened. And John 14, 15, and 16 tells you, The why. Jesus explained very succinctly to his disciples, the why. We need to be thankful for what he just read. Oh, my goodness. Well, I read, I quoted, what I quoted the guy in the moment was. And it's not mysterious. No, it's.

I want to tell this guy, I apologize, because in the moment I said Philippians to, but it was actually Colossians 2. So if you read Philippians 2 when you went back home and said, what was you talking about? I actually got Colossian. So I did make a mistake. you still remember that misquote. He didn't have your Bible in front of you, but what he could, what he, the way I'm interpreting his critique or question is, which would be a misunderstanding of what we have been saying the entirety of this podcast, we're not saying that the Jesus and the spirit are the same

person. That's the way, that's not what we're saying. Right. But, but, but it is the spirit of Christ. And, and his role is to make known. to us what is basically Christ. I'm saying I agree yet disagree because my point is, and I know you know this, and I quoted the Colossians 2, for in Jesus, all of the deity lives in bodily form.

Well, what is all of the deity? Father, son, Holy Spirit. Thank you, Phil. Zach? Yes, but you can't. Well, let me say this. Don't give me a butt. And I, you can, they are not the same person.

They are not the same person. Did you send that guy to me? Did you send that guy to me? That's where he came from. Yeah, now that that's, that's called the oneness or the modalism, which is actually is a heresy. It, God is three persons in one being. So he's three distinct persons, but one being.

So the father is not the son. But the father is God. God, the son is not the father, but he is God. And God, the Spirit is not the other two, but he is God. And so they're one being. So the differentiation is. So the analogies all, they all fail us. The, you know, the analogy of an egg or water that has a form of gas, like a vapor or ice, a solid or water or liquid. I mean, that's how people would say it if they were trying to present some. modalist view of the Trinity, but it all falls flat. And it's because there's nothing that we can compare God to. You know, he is a self-referential God. So I think what the guy was probably getting at was just saying, hey, they're different, they're different persons. One being, yes, but they are different persons. And that's probably what he's getting at.

But they're also eternally linked in an eternal relationship. and there's a ton of implications for this. Which that is what is to be what you just said. That's the final word on it. Therefore, when they send us out, he's been sending them out for 2,000 years. All authority is given to him, all, Jesus. You say, what about the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit?

Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, that's the gold, baptizing them, which is said over and over and over, in the name of, he mentions three things there, who is one. All nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I've commanded you. They work together, but they are separate. But my point is, God chose, I agree with that. I mean, I agree with everything Zach said and Phil said, which is weird because you're like, it seems like we're disagreeing. I think it's more the terminology this year. Semantics to me. It comes down to whether you're talking about a being or a person is the semantics of it.

Because God chose to reveal himself by becoming a human. Well, his name is Jesus. It is interesting that the three heads of God. is to be preached. Yeah. It's to be priests. You don't just skip over and say, well,

I would one, whether it was one is three. Yeah, but Jesus. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptize them in the name of the Father,

Son, and Holy Spirit and teach them to obey everything. I've commanded you. Matthew is talking, and Jesus is saying what his words were, teaching them, to obey everything I've commanded you.

Surely I'll be with you to at the end of the age. Yeah, but before Zach gives his comment. It's hard to wrap your head around three. Well, and Zach's point was right on that one. It's, we can't even, we try to grasp things in our surroundings to try to illustrate it, but it's, you really can't. I mean, it's, well, I think you can, I think this is for me,

how, a good way for me to begin to see it is that God is, that God is, God is love. 1 John 4.8 says that God is love. And so when you think about God in his inner life, God has a lot of attributes. But not all of those attributes would translate to God existing in and of himself. For example, the question you could ask is before God initiates creation, there's not any angels, there's no spiritual world outside of himself.

There's all that exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Who or what was God pouring his right? wrath out on. Because wrath is an attribute of God. And the answer is no one, because there's no sin to pour wrath out on or who or what was God, you know, levying or putting his mercy on. And there's, it's no one because there's no sin. There's no infraction to give mercy. And you can kind of go down the list here. Who was God sovereign over? But if his friend who met with him and doubted the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you got to remember. Jesus said in the Great Commission.

The first thing he said is when they saw him, they worshipped him. This is when he's the 40 days that he's been raised from the dead. But some doubted. So I put that under what y'all have discussing. There's the doubters. Some are doubters. Wait a minute now. I don't know.

Yeah, but you remember when I went through Acts every time it said in the name of Jesus? Now, how many times was it? It was, just go look in the name of Jesus, and then something would happen. That's right. They would either baptize them, they would kill somebody. Demon, people were healed. I just read to you the Spirit of Jesus, Acts 16. Now, look, I had to go and look this up because that was the only place I could find in the book of Acts.

But even some of the scholars said, well, yeah, we don't really think he meant that. So evidently, this guy's point is. is coming from somewhere he was taught that, that they feel uncomfortable about saying the Spirit of Jesus, but we just read. Yeah, there's several times. Because they are interlinked, but I want to return back to it,

because I don't want to leave what I was saying earlier, like, off, because if I don't tell the rest of it, then it makes it sound like something I wasn't saying. I'm going to let you, even though you hijack my story, I'm on. Well, I did you chop in because this is getting a little hairy, but if you look at it. Hang on, Zep, where you go there?

Let's take her first. But these attributes of God, they don't all translate to him in his inner life, like the wrath, the mercy. Those are things that are contingent upon creation and us violating law or violating his commandment. But if you ask the question, was God loving himself before he initiates creation, the answer is yes. And it's not a narcissistic love. It's not a person, like it's not me. Oh, I love myself. It is a, it is a love between the father and the son.

You know, Augustine said it this way that the Trinity is the father eternally loving the son. The son eternally and unadulteratedly loving the father. And then the love between them as a spirit. And another way of saying that too, though, is that, you know, that relationship in high school? Like, there's that couple in high school that were like, they're dating. they're in love and they exclude like everybody else around them and it's so annoying. Like they're so in love, but they have, like they have no friends. They,

their love is completely self-absorbed. Just like every one of us did when we were dating. Like we did. Like we did in high school. But that's, but God's love is my all my high school years. Yeah, I was thinking about all you guys.

I was thinking about, actually I think about your brother, Jeff, but that's a whole other topic. But, but God's love is outgoing. And so it's love between two, but it also pushes out into the spirit.

And so I think that when we think about this, this John 173 passage, it says it in an interesting way because it defines eternal life as being, as knowing this God, this God who is love. 1 John 4th, he is love. And eternal life is to be invited and to participate in his inner life. It's to know him intimately. And the way that Jesus says it, he says it's eternal life is this, to know the one true God. which I would define his father, son, and Holy Spirit. And then he says Jesus Christ's son whom he sent, the incarnation of that God in the Son. So Jesus is the incarnation of the Son.

But so it's the full picture. And so the way we get access into the Trinity is through Jesus, the Son. But the way we find out about Jesus, the Son, is through God, the Holy Spirit. That's the point of the Spirit. The Father plans salvation. The Son accomplishes our salvation, and the Spirit applies our salvation. He convicts the world, John 16. He convicts the world about sin, righteousness, and judgment.

He's going to make known to you what was given to Jesus, or what Jesus gives to him. He's the Spirit of Truth. John 17, we're sanctified by the truth. Your Word is truth. So the Holy Spirit, he is the one who reveals to us the inner life of God and says, oh, by the way, and the way you get there, John 14, is through the son. He is the way, the truth in the life, and nobody comes to the Father except through him. So I think that's when we say that the Spirit is making Christ known, I mean, that is his,

that is what he's doing. That is the whole point. That was my point. Yeah, making that statement, because I was going to read the John 14, 25, when Jesus said, all this I have spoken while still with you, but the counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send him, name will teach you all things and will remind you of everything i have said to you so i mean he just said this he will i will i will send him the father will send him in my name so that's why i brought up the the name of jesus being declared jesus is exalted at the right hand of god which will get to in act 17 he's king he's exalted the spirit was poured out people who are who declared Jesus as Lord, receive God's Spirit.

Well, he is then through people, spirit-filled people, making Jesus' presence known. And that's why when you sell these terms, now I'm talking about the undwelling of the Holy Spirit there, but when you see all these terms, the Holy Spirit fell, or the Holy Spirit came on them, or the Holy Spirit was poured out, well, then you see the public display of Jesus being exalted

through the Holy Spirit. Right. Yeah. There's no doubt about that. It's definitely got to be more of an idea of how, from our perspective, because we're human beings, how the Trinity relates to us. And I liked where you were going with that, Zach, because if you think about it, Jesus, the person of Jesus or the being of Jesus, how you want to semantically call him,

and the Holy Spirit, you see them in the Old Testament in the early days of what we read in biblical history. But obviously Yahweh, the father, was front and center in terms of what he was saying was going to happen for humanity. This Messiah is coming. I'm coming. Salvation is coming. Then Jesus gets here and we see the person of Jesus, the being of Jesus.

And he's saying, if you've seen me, what? You've seen the father. So, and then Hebrew writers said he is the exact representation of the being of God. And then Jesus says, when he's here, Look, I'm leaving. I'm leaving the planet. The physical me is leaving the planet, but I'm going to give you something better in my place, and that's going to be the spirit.

And so to me is how it relates. And we try to think of an illustration. The only, the closest one I can find, and it's still hard to explain, is us because we are made in the image of God. We are a one person. This is Jace, but he is made up of three parts. or three, you know, whatever you want to, word you want to use for that. His body, soul, and spirit, according to the Bible.

And those are separate. They're different. The animating force of his life, his physical body, and then the soulless nature, that which yearns for something better. So that's the way, that's the way in my mind. It's hard to have the, it's hard for the language to. It's difficult because we're not saying, you want to say parts and you want to say separate, but they're not separate.

They're not separate. They're distinct. That's probably a good way to say it. They're distinct persons, but they are one. And so another analogy, not an analogy, but we do see, I would call it, I said, we see reflections of the triune nature of God in creation. Yep. We see it in ourselves, as you mentioned.

We see it in marriage, right? You have two, the good one. You have two distinct people that the Bible says that are united, and they will leave their father and mother and become one flesh. that what comes out of that is the creation of new life. So you can even see it in the marriage relationship. And so I think these morsels of God's nature, this is the Romans one passage, his divine nature has been clearly seen and perceived by what's been made.

So the men are without excuse. So we may not know that God's triune until we get this what's called special revelation from the scripture. But man, we see a lot of this in the creation itself. and the beauty of the inner life of God. And I think why this matters is, when you get into religions that are not triune, and maybe it's an infinite amount of gods, then you end up with chaos. It's just a million gods on the shelf, and it ends in utter chaos. If you go the opposite route, you say, oh, it's just one person, and that's it, then like Islam,

then you're going to get a very authoritarian abuse of God. It's in the triune God that you, that's only in the triune God. It's only in the one that begins with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Do you get the concept of love? Real love that is not an inclusive love that, but it's a love. I'm sorry, it's not an exclusive love, but it's a love that pours out and overflows. And that's the beauty of who God is. And so Jesus brings us into that.

And then you have a relationship and everything that goes with that. But that's what you're going to see in Acts 16. 17. Once he gets to Philippi, he gets to the Roman colony. Well, they had gods on every street corner. And then it becomes the true God versus all these other gods. But I wanted to read this Act 16, because I think this answers the question or the argument that we just invented for 20 minutes. 1612, Jesus said, I have much more to say to you more than you can now bear, but when he the spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all truth where are you at uh john 16 you said axing i'm sorry john 16 13 when the spirit comes spirit of truth he will guide you into all

truth and here's the point i want to get at he will not speak on his own he will speak only what he hears and he will tell you what is yet to come which is what what is happening in the book of He will bring glory to me. Now this is Jesus talking before the Spirit was poured out by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

So he was making Jesus' presence known. Because another analogy you gave marriage, it's that we're the body of Christ. He's the head. Where's that? Colossons 1. Well, if the church was not in existence, you would have a decapitated Jesus.

Because we're the body is completing the head. The head is in headquarters at the right hand of God. He's given us his spirit. We're the body of Christ and we're making him known. It's like the body functions as the head. says, do this, you do this, the body does this. And it's all functioning through the spirit. Which is why I said, John, 14, 15, 16.

You read those together. He gives a very clear distinction on what the purpose of the spirit was. And he said it was his spirit, you know, that he puts in us. Which leads me to another discussion. Now, this one happened in the airport terminal. I just want to say, before we take a break, that I just want to thank this listener because this whole discussion, came back because he asked you that question. So thank you, listener, for prompting this

discussion because it's a good one to have. And because of this discussion, we did avoid whatever whatever other story Jace was headed down. I think we've got a better story here, Jason. I'm sorry. Let's take another break. Argument number two in the airport terminal, guy comes up and says, I'm going to disagree with you and that he said it with a grin on his face. See, it was a little more playful. Yep. He's like, Hebrew is it's not about Jesus. Whoa.

I was like, okay. You just preached the whole sermon. Yeah, I basically said, I'm just going to forget you said that. And I'm going to quote four verses. Now, this guy obviously believed in Jesus. He obviously believes the Bible's about Jesus. But in his mind, wherever he was listening and going to church, he just didn't agree with that statement.

Yeah. You know, and so he basically, after talking to him a bit, he just believed it was about, you know, coming out of apostasy from the Old Testament. And I was like, yeah, but there is a lot about that in there. But the point was, and I said, I'm going to give you four verses. And I had my Bible there, but I didn't pick up my Bible. And I was like, I don't need the Bible to know where these four verses are. in Hebrews. I'm going to quote them to you. Hebrews 1, 3, and 4. In these last days, God has spoken to us through his son. I said, who is that? And he said, Jesus? I said,

okay, it starts off saying, you're off and running the past. And I said, then it gives the credentials of said son, which are really, really good. He's the radiance of God's glory. exact representation of his being i said then you have hebrews three and verse one it says let us fix our thoughts on jesus so i said if we're keeping score we are to listen to jesus because that's how god is spoken hebrews one three we are to think about jesus let us fix our thoughts on jesus i said then I know where you're going now. Hebrews 12, 1 and 2. Let us fix our eyes on Jesus.

I said, and then Hebrews 13 and verse 12. And so Jesus suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy. We had a little discussion about that through his own blood. Let us then go to him. Who's him? Jesus. Baring the disgrace, Boer.

It's about Jesus. Yeah. He's probably, he's probably thinking of that Hebrew 6 passage in the Hebrews 1026 that, I mean, there is some stuff in there about apostasy, but it's, yeah, I mean, I think the grander picture there is that Jesus is superior in the center point of the entire, like all of it. He's a better temple, a better sacrifice, a better priest. I mean, he's a center point.

And I think that the falling away part or whatever you're, and there's disagreement on that, by the way, of course, in a lot of different theologies. But I think even the more reform guys, like I took a class with Tom Shrineer, I mean, he even said that. Like, no, the book of Hebrews is a warning to not fall away. But fall away from what? Yeah, I'd say that's to fall back under the old system.

I mean, to me, it's very simple. why the Hebrew writer was writing it. He was like, because somehow you can hold on to things that Jesus came and fulfilled. Why would you want to do that? This is why we're so splintered in churches and denominations.

When you miss the point of the Bible itself, I mean, I just made that comment about the letter to Hebrews, but when you miss that, you start going down avenues and creating, like, whatever that phrase was that Zach said on the first argument, I don't know, it started with an EM.

Modalism. Modalism? Let me tell you, I'm not worried about modalism. Because somebody created that and said, hey, this is a thing. And I just don't care if I ever know what that thing is. Well, you may not have that word. You may not know what the word means. But that's my point.

We tend to categorize everything, you know. And so it's just a way of, the reason why you do that, though, is it's a way to reduce a bigger conversation into one word. and so we could get into a whole definition of what's wrong with seeing God as just one person, but there's been councils that met on this. And so, yeah, this is not biblical. Most of the people that we're dealing with, they deal with Modeloism. Yeah.

That's a whole different thing. But you just, the reason I refuse to categorize things like, you know, eschatology, which I've learned on this podcast, you know, That's when we're going to talk about the end times and the resurrection. The reason I stay away from that is what you just said, though. If I'm going to reduce down something to one word, it's going to be Jesus, who is a person. Because God is not a theory. Because people come up with these phrases, and then they give their theories on what they think.

And I'm just not interested in that. I like to look at all things related in the Bible in reflection of that God is a person, not a theory. And he revealed himself through Jesus and it's convicted through the Holy Spirit. Period, exclamation point. Zach? I'm not a category guy. So I'm just not going to do it.

He said period exclamation point. I guess, I mean, that means that he's not listening after this. I like to make fun of those categories because I just think. You want to put a comma in there and start over? I think these categories are things that people want, that smart people, and I mean smart, as in they're educationally smart, have studied, and it makes it easier for them to argue. Right. But to me, it confuses the common man.

No, it does. It does, Jace, but there are some things that are, that we have to preserve the truth of, and who God is in his inner life and his nature. of being father, son, and spirit, not in different modes, modalism, meaning that God manifest in one mode, then another mode, that is detrimental to how you're going to see God and yourself, and it changes, in my opinion, I think it changes the entire scope of Christianity. So that is one thing that I would say we can't. I would agree.

I would just disagree that I have to use the word modalism. That's all I'm saying. I will agree with you on that. You do not have to use that word. I don't like these. Period. Exclamation. We have found detente.

Because I never made my point because it says that, you know, the God chose the foolish things of the world. And you remember that text. To shame the wise. You know, where's the scholar? Remember that whole phraseology? Where's it in? First Corinthians. First Corinthians is one.

Yeah. So, you know, these men, Acts 4. they were ordinary unschooled men and their declaration was they had a reputation for what they had been with jesus that's i that's just what i want to be yes and that trumps everything i agree jason i mean that and i do think that and i look i mean that's i go into that that side of it a lot like the more academic and i read a lot and when i get in my basement on that what happens is it does become just an intellectual, it can quickly become that. It's not to say that that I should never study deep,

but it is to say that it's not simply about me gaining the right information. The most important thing is, have I been with Jesus and do I smell like him? I mean, that is the most important thing. And so I've received your point there. I've always said that one of the strengths of our podcast is I feel like our approach to studying the Bible, is through sort of a different spiritual gift that we, the four of us have. And Zach, you have an ability to do that and an interest in that. And that reaches people too, just like what Jay's is doing, what I'm doing, what

dad's doing. And we all have a little different slam, you know, and I've always thought it's more kind of a prophet, pastor evangelist, you know, apologist approach to the Bible. So I think that's what helps us because we hit a lot of people. So obviously to Jason's original point, not to get lost on it, as he's going out in the highways and byways of the fruages of the fruited plains of America, he's running across people that are listening and being impacted about what we're talking about. That is awesome. And I got to say this because I got somebody sent me this article that was written about the podcast industry. And the graphic had our graphic on it.

And it was in it said the top five podcast. in all of podcasts. This is what we were in the top five for, for all podcasts, where their listeners only listened to their show. And we were in the top five. Really? So our audience,

I want to think on the show, we got an exclusive audience. I never figured out the category. What is the category? So like, they don't listen to any other podcasts. They're listening to five other podcasts. They're pretty exclusive to listening to us.

Yeah. So the mall of that story is we have a. sectarian look at chase using big words I did that on purpose because somebody came up with sectarian and I was like would you call me I think we're doing four episodes

a week we have a lot of discussions so maybe they just maybe it's just so much to process they're just like I can't I'm exhausted I can't go anywhere else so you guys warm me out Maddie I feel like the title of this podcast should be the podcast that never started and never win anywhere.

Never started. It went somewhere. It went into a deep chasm of discussion. When you get into the Trinity and time and explain that, we went to the deep woods, the deep water. So issue number three, I was going to give my arguments before I even tell you what I did. I went to Nashville to go. No with the small bows.

Yeah, I got to throw this in before we're done because nobody will go watch the movie after I do this. On my way, I never got to where I went. I went to Nashville to go to the premiere of the movie Unsung Hero. We had the Small Bones on this podcast. I was a guest on Uncle Cyes' podcast with the Small Bones. And we ate lunch with them. We got to know them.

We kind of hit it off. We spent a day with them. They were fantastic people. They're a family that they're not afraid to go out. and be vocal in their faith. And they did a movie, so I saw some similarities there, and I really liked them. So I wanted to support the movie.

So I went, and it was fantastic. I mean, the electricity in the room, because most of the people there loved them or either have some media outlet that they want to use to promote the movie because they saw it and they loved it. And Missy and I sat on the front row. They had us on the front row, And they had all these pastors on the front row.

So I met a lot of kind of big hitter pastors on the front row. And they had us. And I'm not sure. I'm not technically a pastor, but we were there. And it was good. And we, you know, we did the red carpet, which consisted of, I've done a lot of red carpets. Usually what you do is you go out there and talk to media. So I was all prepared for that.

What are they fixed to ask me? So Missy and I walked out. And we were one minute behind the family, which means we waited 45 minutes before we actually entered the red carpet. Because they have a big family and took a lot of pictures and all the media. That's why they were there. Yeah. So we were waiting with the throng of people. So it's funny.

So when we come out, we take a picture. You know how they, all the cameras, you know, look here. And they're like, okay, you're done. Like, I came all the way up here for one picture. So Maddie, I sent her the picture. There it is. That documents us being there. And so then we watched the movie.

It was better the second time because the first time I watched it on my phone. This time I watched it. You get all the watching on the big screen. Yeah, with hundreds of people. And then the family got up. It was really, really good. I actually kind of teared up multiple times during the movie. Oh, I cried like a baby.

It's about family. It's good. So go watch that movie. But I was going to give you the third argument from a listener who I brought up, I don't know if it was in my sermon or it was on this podcast. But I went through a little spill about the two unchangeable things. The promise and the oath in Hebrews chapter six. And he was like, you missed it on that one.

I was like, well, what did I miss? And he basically said the two unchangeable things are the promise and that God can't lie. And to which I responded, that's the same thing. That's what you said, yeah. That's one. What's the other one? It's a promise and an oath. And so finally, we have this long discussion.

And actually, this was the only argument that. I think I won on the spot because when I read Hebrew 6 where it says, yeah, Hebrew 615, and so after waiting patiently, Abraham received what was promised because you remember he swore to Abraham that he would bless him and give you many descendants. And then it says, verse 16, men swear by someone greater than themselves and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised so he confirmed it with an oath so I made that point I said it's a promise and an oath well the oath then I read in verse chapter seven I read that where it says

in verse 16 that Jesus is our priest based on the indestructible life and then I read 21 but he became a priest with an oath. So here's the oath. When God said to him, the Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, there's the first promise. And here's the oath. You are a priest forever.

So I came up with a clever way to say this, because I want to thank this guy. Because in the moment, I said, look, you're saying the same thing. When God makes a promise, he can't lie. but those things are in the same vein because that's who he is. Jesus didn't just go around saying the truth.

Remember what he said? I am the truth. So when I make a promise, that's just it. And I can't lie. I said the second thing is, is he's a priest forever. That's the oath. And you say, well, what does that mean? I said, and this needs to go on a T-shirt.

Hang on for you do it. T-shirt moment. Two share a moment. Let's take a break. God cannot lie and God cannot die. There's your promise and there's your oath. Two unchangeable things. That's why Jesus is better. He is the truth, but guess what he also said?

I am the life. I'm the resurrection and the life. It's the promise and oath of God. What do you think about that, Zach? You know what I thought? I thought that's why the Trinity is so important. because when you think about when he says I am the truth, because I preached on this this past week.

You're such a scholar, right? You're such a scholar. I love it, Dave. I love it. Have you noticed a pattern when you agree with me you're a scholar? When you don't. I've noticed the pattern, yes. When you don't, you're just pontificating on phraseology and categories of work.

I am not. Coming up with big work. I'm actually not a scholar. And this is what's funny. I did, I entered into a Master's of Divinity program that I never finished. And I'm not kidding you. I took a systematic theology class. And actually I had already taking, I'd listened to a podcast that went through 400 episodes on systematic theology.

So I actually learned theology from podcasting. Isn't that interesting? And apologetics. I mean, most of it came through listening to people online. It's interesting and a little embarrassing. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to present myself as something that I'm not. So, you know, I'm not a scholar.

Good for you, Zay. Although I did stay at some nice hotels this week. But now, Zach, but now ironically, you shepherd many podcasts that are under the umbrella. That's the irony of the whole thing. We made you a scholar because compared to us, you are a scholar. So it's all relative. There's a reason why I like this crowd, okay? I love hanging out with you guys.

It's like the old magnet on the refrigerator, Zach. You can lose weight or find fatter friends. What you've done, you can be a scholar or hang around people that are not. When I found out I had issues with my liver, going back to that, the first person I wanted to go to talk to was, ow. I said, can we spend some time together? Can we talk about fame? Cue the liver commercial.

Cue the liver commercial. No, look, one guy said, Chase, there's another just moment that popped in my head. He said, quit apologizing when you don't remember where you. you read something. You don't have to apologize for that. And I was like, well, sorry. Because he said, always remember, do you know what original thought is? Forgotten source. That's what he said. He said, when you forgot, where you heard it from, that's an original thought. That's all I thought that was kind of funny. But go ahead and finish your point, Zay.

There's your point, Zay. Well, I was looking for, I was looking for the verse. I can't remember where I read it. I think it's in John 17 where Christ, If it's in John 17, we'll find it. Yeah, or he says something about, you know, I pray for them, basically that we would participate in his glory. He would make his glory known to us. It's this idea of God sharing his glory with us, the sun. And it's somewhere in John 17, I believe. But there's two verses in the Old Testament that I'm,

Isaiah 42 that says, I am the Lord, that is my name. I will not share my glory with another. And there's another verse that says the same thing. But God, the Father, will not share his glory with anyone but the son. So you think the son has this exclusive monopoly on participating in the glory of God. And God shares that with him. But when you get to John 17, it all makes sense because it's like this whole thing is unfold. And he says, Father, the hour has come, glorify your son so that I may glorify you since you have given him authority over flesh to give eternal life to all those you have given him.

And then it's that John 173 that we quote so often. And this is eternal life that they know you, the only true God in Jesus Christ whom you sent. I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work. Remember I said the role of the son was to accomplish the work, accomplished the work that you gave me to do. the Father planned it. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. And so you see this exclusivity of Christ as being the entry point into the divine life.

I mean, that's it. It's not just that we're being freed from sin, although it is that. It's that what's being offered here is we're being asked to be invited into participation into the inner life of God, which is. by the way, his glory. I mean, we're asked to come inside there and to participate in this life with him. And we find out about that through His Holy Spirit. And so I was just thinking when you were saying that, I was saying, all this is like, it's all reflective of his nature. No matter where we turn, we can't, we can't escape it. Now, it's interesting you brought up the glory point because

you remember when Paul was it was the 2 Corinthians, 4 and 5 when he's talking about sort of the temporary nature of reflection of God's glory under the old covenant because Moses would be in the presence or near the presence of God. And it literally, he would glow because of it, but it would faith. I think it was 2 Corinthians 3. Is that way it is? Yes, that's at the end. And your John passage was 1722 and 24.

I think it's implied. I think what you're saying is implied because he says, I have given them the glory that you gave me that they may be one as we are one. Then 24 says, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you love me before. But did you see that the Trinitarian framework there is what it is? It's diversity and unity. Yeah.

I mean, that's it. So I agree. And you see this in culture, right? When you see a movement, over emphasis on diversity, what you actually is. end up with is division. Yeah. And if you see it. Which describes our culture.

Which is what my point was about missing the forest for the trees. I mean, you know, this is about a person. And I think we should be quick to be unified on that. And even in matters of the law, you remember when Jesus was that, Matthew 23, maybe, when he was saying you'd neglect the weightier matters of the law, like faithfulness and justice. And he's like, you'll go give a tenth of these spices. Get your seal and your spice.

We do the same thing in the churches. We have all these arguments. Just the fact, look, I don't mind the people coming up asking these questions. But to me, you know, if you got a notebook, every time you hear a sermon or you're studying in the Bible and you're trying to figure out, oh, did they say something wrong? Or, you know, that's just, I just don't think that's where we should mature. or two in the faith. We should be out there doing what they were doing in Acts, which is making Jesus his presence known. It's okay to discuss some things, you know, that we disagree with,

but it's not about just sitting there saying, well, you got that wrong, and I'm going to sit on my couch and see if anybody else says something wrong. I think one of the key questions in any of our lives should be anything we're doing in any aspect of our life, how much glory does God get? from what I'm doing, from what I'm saying. You're correct. I'm reacting. And speaking to John 17, that's exactly what we're talking about. All right, we're out of time.

So the first podcast that I can remember, and we've done 880 now after today, this is the first one, the whole podcast was on one rebuke to Jace. Which I thought it was, which I thought was one, this is one of the greatest podcast we've ever had. Maybe so. I would encourage more. Let us know. Let us know top five exclusive. It was technically three rebukes. But can we just say, if you see Jason Airport, feel free to rebuke him.

Feel free to. Because that will lead to future content. I just have one comment to make. Keep the faith. There you go. Keep the faith. That's maybe the best. In Jesus. That's maybe the best thing we've heard all day.

All right. We'll try to do better next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to blazed TV at blazestiv.com slash unashamed.