Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 881 | Phil Gives His Sons Something to Look Forward to in Old Age & Motorcycle Gangs for Jesus?

Episode Date: May 3, 2024

Phil’s down-home advice to Al when he started out in ministry proved to be one of the most useful things for his preaching career, and Jase is intimidated by a towering, leather-clad biker until they realize they both love Jesus. The guys examine some of the finer points of the ministry of the early church, including how to treat, confront, and disagree with others in ministry. Al is touched by the relationship between Paul and Timothy as it reminds him of his own mentor. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? On the front of your hat there, that right there started exactly when I was 28. Yeah, yeah. Well, the guy... I was 28 years old. Well, the guy that God told me that God became flesh and the name is Jesus. He was crucified on the cross, was buried, raised from the dead. That's the message.

And he came up. Every Sunday morning, that's the message I give them. And every time I do that, they want to go down at that baptism of pool. We baptize them and send them on their way. Well, you remember Smith, because Jason's got his hat if you're watching. So he would take a little, he would do a little thing of like a baptistry square around those middle three. Because it's a reenactment of the death barren resurrection of Jesus. Just explaining baptism, which was pretty.

That originated from Bill Smith. William 8th. And that thing now has gone ballistic if you look at it. It's everywhere. If you're listening, you're joining the podcast mid-conversation because we do two podcasts in one session. And the last podcast, we had a podcast named the podcast that never began because I told about these interactions that I have with people

who were pushing back on some of the things we talked about. But the second thing that happened when I was on this trip to Nashville to promote the movie Unsung Hero, which I'm asking you to go and watch. Because one, you'll be inspired. It's about family. It's out now, so go watch it. But family from a family of believers is really God's idea. I mean, he is the architect of families. We understand families because we're created in the image of God.

and can we call him a family, father, son, and Holy Spirit? So, Zach, you're the, you've now been deemed the scholar. Is it okay to say it's a family? Yeah, I think so. And I like a relationship. I don't think so, say I know so, yes. I get cautious when I try to start talking about how to describe who he is. But I will say this, though, that I just now realize that we were in the podcast.

I didn't know I did not know we were filming that you are here Zach you're here with us we're doing it no but I didn't hear anybody say start like how did y'all know we start you were waiting for Maddie's uh we wanted to start melody of three two one but she she pulled a fast one today she just cranked in so did y'all have cues you were looking at we were looking at her we knew I looked at her and she gave the little finger saying this is good do it so what I was going to say is last podcast we spent the whole podcast answering argument from the viewers. But another thing I did, I wore this same hat,

and you'll see it from the picture of Missy and I at the premiere of Unsung Hero, because I wore this hat. Because I have to have a hat. Yeah. Because my hair, I'm having a bad hair decade. And so. That one came from our good buddy, Brian Robinson. He sent us some of those.

So in between the few arguments I had, I did share Jesus with four or five different people because of this hat. I went and played golf with my sons. And so when I went in there to pay, and I didn't have my club, so I had to rent some clubs. And this woman said, what's that hat all about? And I thought, because I'm in, you know, I'm in at a golf course. Because when I got out of the vehicle, the guy that takes the clubs, he said, where's your clubs? You're going to need clubs.

And I was like, I'm going to rent them if you have them. He said, okay, so make sure you got your shirt all the way he tucked in. So I looked down, I thought it was tucked in, but I, you know, adjusted it. So it already had that altercation. So they had a dress code. Yeah. They do. And he was letting you know that some people just don't belong.

Right. I don't think he liked the beard. So look, same thing happened. The woman at the check-in, she said, what's the hat all about? And I kind of hesitated because I thought, can I not wear hats? But then I realized I was wearing this hat Because you don't realize what hat you have Like the famous story

Willie was on number two At Augusta National playing At where the Masters is held And some guy drives a cart All the way out there And hands him a hat And he thinks, oh well thank you for that Like the guy was going to give it to him

He said, sir, there are no bandanas At Augusta National He was wearing his little red, white and blue bandanas Like, sir, we don't do that here That's funny which by the way shout out to scotty sheffler we're good friends with his catty ted scott he who loves jesus i shared jesus with this woman because i explained that i took the hat off and said well see here jesus he came down to this earth you know he died on the cross

for the world was buried resurrected he's coming back one day and she said that's really fascinating Then she litched your hair and said, please put that hat back on. Exactly what happened. So then I go to the starter. So they have a starter feel on a golf course. He tells you, you can go. If y'all could have seen him. Dad just rolled his eyes.

I didn't make the cut on that. Speaking of the starters, do you remember Mr. Perry that used to be the starter at Chanel? We used to play years ago. I do not, oh, that guy. You know, you hit one, you type one on the first thing. you go to T1M, he'd been, I, I, ah, you play it where it lies, son.

Yeah. Play it where it lies. No, no two of the first. So he asked me what the hat was about, and so I went through it again, and my son, Reid, said, boy, you got a pretty good deal going with that hat. I said, yeah.

It's a walking billboard. But here's what's funny is that guy, so his response was, he said, what are you a preacher? I said, no, I'm a believer. And he said, well, what's the difference? And I said, well, I think in your case, it makes what I just said more appealing. Because I'm not getting paid to tell you that.

He said, that's a good point. That was a good line, Jay. Yeah. So, you know, it'll work. So if you do that. So another guy in the airport who was literally a motorcycle gang member came up to me. And he looked like a motorcycle gang member. He had the leather jacket, the big boots.

His beard made my beard look like a shadow. He had a long back on it probably. He was a hairy man and a large man, and he'd come up. They like to put a lot of rubber bands in their beards, I noticed, like squeeze them off, make little symbols. So he said, if I ask you what that hat is about, are you going to tell me the good news of Jesus? I said, I sure will, but I see the.

you already know what this hat means. And he said, I do, brother. He said, I lead a motorcycle gang for Jesus. I like it. Look, now I'm telling you, if you saw that guy right now, you would run. And so that just- I saw one last Sunday morning. He said the same thing you said.

Yep. So he said, well, I usually wear a button that says, ask me. And he said, you'd be amazed. That's all it says. A-S-K, me. And he said, you'd be amazed to how many people say. Ask what?

What's that about? And he said, we're doing the same thing. But he said, yours is a little more complicated. Mine is, if you have the nerve to come up and ask me, I'm going to tell you about Jesus. I'm just wondering, the way he described this motorcycle man for Jesus, how many people thought, I'm not asking that guy anything. He may beat me up.

Well, that's kind of what I thought. But look, in the moment, I didn't want to bring that up. But because he did look like he could hurt me. So those were the more positive conversations. Although I don't mind being challenged about what we talk about here. Zach brought up a very interesting thing about our viewers. What award did we get with the top five people who only listen to one podcast? Yeah, somehow we made out of all the pocket.

I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I think it's good. Well, it wasn't an award. It was just an observation from the industry that we have a unique audience. We have very loyal listeners, which I would concur with that, even not knowing that, just because of my interaction with them. I mean, they are listening and taking it to heart and questioning, you know, which is what, which, by the way, we say this all the time, sort of tongue and cheek. but now after this is we're into the second podcast here this is why we liked to send jays out because he will come back with stories and just like when we heard we talked about on a couple

of podcasts ago when we heard our backs you know both on the same week jace's stories are always much more fantastical well i was actually doing something yeah i mean chasing down goats well so was how he was lifting i was doing something too i was right now why's my foot off the ground jace i mean he wasn't just sitting around. That's right. Wasn't like I was getting. Well, to your, how many inches did you get off the ground with your foot before you felt the pain? Not far, Zach.

Not far. I didn't stretch. Apparently now I have to stretch before showering. Well, I would also recommend stretching before you go chase goats. That's true. Because you never know that's going to lead you. So you'll know it'll hurt some more before it's over. Well, you know what?

I thought that story, I thought about Phil. I said, Phil's 75 years old, throws his back out. How'd you do it, Phil? Well, I was lifting up a boat. Owls 55 throws his back out. How'd you do it? I'm 59, Zach. But thank you for that.

Yeah, thank you for. Shaving, if you are. Yeah. I lift up my foot six inches. Lift up my foot trying to wash my feet and pull my back. But I'm good now, though. I mean, but Phil lifting up a boat by himself at 75 years. old is, I mean, that's kind of a beast move.

You know what I mean? I got respect for that. Dan was with me. But not a wise move, Dad. I don't do that. I haven't done that move anymore. It was bold and manly, but just not very wise. There's the last time for everything. That's exactly right.

Hold my water and watch this. All right, let's take care of first. All right, so we're going to get back to Axe, Jays. Good. Is that where we were at? Was Axe? We were at X. 16.

I'm really excited. about Acts 16 and 17. Our last podcast that we were in Acts, we went through this sort of Gentile Council, we're calling it, in 15. And we talked about how that the Gentiles now being welcomed in to what had been pretty much kind of a Jewish club

the first 10 years, and I'm talking about Christianity, now of a sudden it's going to create a lot of issues that are going on because the cultures are so different, the lifestyles are different. But basically, they got together, and said, look, we can't add anything to the gospel, so we don't have to make people Jews to make them Christians. That's what they finally decided. Yeah, and a Gentile, don't be, you know, that's

one of Zach's words, but that's a biblical word. Yeah. It's everyone else. Yeah. Right. So if you're, you're either from Israel or you're everyone else. Which is, and Jay's, that's probably why that the Jews historically, and I don't mean just, you know, ancient Jews that we really have out in the Bible, but for the last 2,000 years as well, are so disliked by so many people is because of their exclusive nature of who they are in their relationship with Yahweh. So, I mean, people don't like it. I mean, it's always a constant thing. The Jews did this, the Jews did that. So, but it's because you have the Jews and everybody else. I mean, that's the mindset there. But this is very biblical, and this brought in these issues. So this all gets settled. They simply,

a letter back to Antioch, which is kind of now, I would argue, it's sort of the Gentile church like Jerusalem. It's the one that's now spreading out. Paul's leaving from there, Paul and Barnabas, and they're doing this mission work. And so all that gets settled. And so now Paul and Barnabas are in Antioch, and they're getting ready to go on another missionary journey, which, you know, people call it the second missionary journey. And it's interesting because they're kind of mapping out what they're going to do, verse 36. I'm in Acts 15. Sometime later, Paul said to Barnabas, let us go back and visit the brothers in all the towns where we preach the Word of God and see how they're doing. So Paul is saying, let's go do a little return trip

to all those churches we planted. I noticed that when some problems came up and they started teaching falsely, chapter 15, some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers unless you are circumcised, according to the customs taught by Moses, you cannot be saved. In other words, it's an outright lie. But they were doing it, and it was, as it turns out, it was their jobs to step in there and face that. That's right.

And they did it. That still holds today. Yeah. Well. Jason, you were out there talking to one. He said, you know, yeah, yeah, I heard this about it. and he's giving you a little scenario here on something that's not needed and it's not true. But he added it at his head.

That's why he's questioned. Well, you better be ready with the answers. Right. And in fact, we talked about this on the podcast when we dealt with this, but when you go back and read Galatians. It's like this ever since Jesus showed up. Yeah. When you go back and read Galatians, Paul was very pointed in what he said about trying to to add something to the gospel.

Well, he was actually almost scary. Yeah. I mean, he was like, if you preach a gospel other than what we shared, let him be eternally condemned. I mean, I don't know. That's not like, I would say that's a little stronger than normal speak. Eternally, not just condemned. Don't do that. What you do is for these guys, if you knew you was going to meet any of these people, Jace,

they're here. and their hat is it's kind of what they were into just read the hat and you'll find out who I am and I don't read anything in here about circumcision at all yeah yeah but it's a it's a I think it's worthy of note on the Galatians passage you know you got to remember this is not a one time like it's not that somebody gets off on something because we all do that right and we all kind of have that moments we're like man I'm teaching something that probably is not You know, probably not in line with truth of gospel. You get rebuked, which is when, honestly, when you get rebuked, you should receive that.

I mean, remember, Peter was rebuked. Yeah. By Paul. Right. And so to be rebuked is not something that should offend us. It's actually something that we should welcome into our life and we should put people, put ourselves in position to where people would tell us if we were out of line. But Peter was doing the very thing that Paul was like, hey, you preach this, you should be,

if you're going to this gospel, let him be eternally condemned. But it's more of a full embrace embracing of something that is other than Christ. I mean, we're all going to on some level struggle with making it about something other than Christ because we want to contain it. That's just part of our human nature. We shouldn't fear sticking with the gospel and the simplicity of it. Because when these people come down, they said they wrote Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute. and debate with them. I mean, they went right at them when they said, you know, you had a rule.

You had to be circumcised. They went right at them. Say, nope, that is not right. It was obvious why, because this was a crucial point. God had said, now we're going to go and share the good news with all these Gentiles. Everybody non-Jewish. So if we back up on that, we're going to say we have to make them Jews first. That was the way out.

Right. So they're about to go. make this second round. And in verse 37, Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark with him. And John Mark has popped up, you know, several times in the Book of Acts.

It's Barnabas's cousin. So we got Ken involved here, so you've got to watch out. But Paul did not think it wise to take him because he had deserted them in Pamphelia and had not continued with them in the work. So, you know, him being young, something probably... He's like, you bowed out on us before.

before, like, we can't, we're not bringing this guy with us, you know, he's proven to be unstable. He's not a, which I love this, by the way, because this is the broken nature of how we operate on this side of heaven. And God still, you know, is, his kingdom work is still going on. Yeah. Whether it is, it's not dependent on us. I love that we're seeing. I love that Luke put this in here, don't you? Oh, I love it.

I like, because, I mean, if you've ever done ministry, like, if you have. not gotten in some kind of sharp dispute with someone that you're doing that you're in the tank with. There are problems that will raise their heads. They will. And look, in this story, there's not a clear cut. I think they were both right. One of them is looking at a person who made a mistake and is saying, no, we need to give them another chance, which we all wrestle with that. And then Paul who's saying, look, this is too important. This is the work of Christ. This is the mission. We can't, we can't take second chances on people that aren't with it. I mean, both of the, those are right. And so that's why the dispute was so sharp. So verse 39, they had such a sharp

disagreement. And the Greek for that is, I mean, they had it out that they parted company. They were basically like, okay, well, I'm just doing my own thing. And well, I'm doing my thing. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. He went through Syria and Silesia strength of the churches. So it is interesting. It was a negative in the sense they were arguing, but it was really a positive because now we got two teams. And they went there. And they went different ways.

And so you think, well, just because you're in Christ with somebody, it does not mean that you got to lock arms and do ministry with them. That's right. And you could still, you could do separate ministries and still be doing the same ministry of Christ, which you see here. And I just think this relationship is so interesting because who was it that brought, Paul to Antioch. I think it was Barnabus, yeah. He went to Tarsus and got him because remember he was isolated. He was like, nobody wants to work with Paul because you know why?

He used to be Saul. So it was like, we don't want to work with that guy. But Barnabas, who is this encouraging, amazing person, the son of encouragement, says, I'm going to go to Tarsus and get Paul because we need him. And I think for me this is encouraging because I've, you know, been hurt and probably have hurt people in ministry and church. And no doubt I am. And so I love this passage because it's like you want to hang on to that hurt.

You want to hang on to whatever that is. But man, people can, like, you can go different ways. And there can be some issues even. And God still be working in the person who you had a disagreement with. And then you would say he could still be working in their ministry. And I love that because it points us back to what Jay said at the very beginning about what the book of Hebrews is about. Same thing, the same thing in the book I ask is about. It ain't about us.

It ain't about our ministry. It ain't about what we've perceived to be the truth. It is about who Christ is. It is about Jesus. One of the best things I learned about ministry came from actually dad in my life growing up hunting ducks. And that is you need to have a duck's back. Ducks have fat that releases this oil. Their fats really dense to repel water off of them because they're in the water

Oh, they're flying in it, they're swimming in it. So when you say rolls off a duck's back, there's a reason why it doesn't get in there and bother them. And that's exact, that one phrase helped me more ministry than anything else. Something would happen. I was like, you know what, I just need to have a ducks back. I just need to let that roll out because otherwise you stay in crisis all the time. I carry it even further.

I mean, I get a lot of flak sometimes because I go to churches where I don't agree with everything going on there. And I go. And I sing. and I meet people and I speak at tons of churches that. I don't even know what they are, really. I don't know. And I love them, you know, and people are like, wow, what are you doing?

Because I realize that, you know, in our growth and our maturity, some of the things we don't agree with, if they ask me, I'm going to tell them what I think. And because I love Jesus and because I love them, they're way more open than you cutting yourself off from the world and trying to throw rocks at them on issues. Or start researching everything they think or put on their website before I decide to go there. I mean, my thing is, when I go into places, Jay's, I share what's right on your hat.

Me too. I mean, so, and that's universal. I don't know where, yeah, that is true. I have it written on the board behind me, two different big things behind me, what's on his hat. And I explained to them what that is. You know, there's a game or a little thing in the back in the 90s called Six Degrees from California.

Bacon. Yeah, six degrees of separation. I remember that. Yeah. And the idea was that everybody's connected to Kevin Bacon through six. Like, I know someone who, that's one, who knows someone, that's two, who know. And I could connect, anyone in the world can connect themselves to Kevin Bacon, the actor, through six degrees of people. And it's just kind of a funny little thing.

I think it might actually be true. And now you see it on Facebook, because you'll get on Facebook, which I don't have, I have a public account, but I don't have a private account anymore. But you get on there and it would say so-and-so is. friends with so and so and you're like, how do they know each other? That's weird. You know, I mean? So you kind of see it now, but we're all connected. It's like this interconnected thing.

And it's like if you're connected in any way, if you speak at somebody's church, then that means that you believe everything they believe. But to Jason's point, I mean, like, you go, you go wherever to preach the truth. And you don't have to vet the group that you're, I mean, who would have time? Well, the reason we got asked is because we were on a TV show that a bunch of people like. that had nothing to do with their, I mean, for the most part, I'm saying that's how we became known to people. And the denomination we came out of, think about this, when Phil started speaking, it wasn't in the churches of Christ where he was speaking. He was speaking everywhere.

That's right. Anywhere. That's true. Anywhere that would happen. Let's take another. That's why I added if you love people, you know, I mean, I meet people on the plains and different places and there, we get to know each other. And they're like, hey, come speak at our church, you know. and, you know, I asked, I got asked by a woman pastor at the event I was at to come speak at their church, you know, and you're like, well, why'd she ask you?

Because we sat beside each other and we talked. She talked with my wife and I, and I was like, sure, line it up. Let's line it up. I mean, I think if you love people and you love Jesus, you don't get into the weeds about, okay, well, let me see if you agree with everything that I agree with. before I come and speak. Let's agree we're going to love Jesus. I'm going to speak about Jesus. We'll go from there. And we can discuss these other things. Well, the four of us are doing a podcast together,

and we don't agree a lot of things that we're studying. We've had robust discussion on a few of those. We have robust discussion, you know, so, yeah. So, but what I was going to say, it's implied if you read the scholars, that even though they have this sharp disagreement, if you go to Colossians 4-10, which I think is interesting, interesting. It's probably a verse you've never read, but in this context, I think you see that it is implied that whatever the issue was, they worked it out, or they developed a love for each other

despite the difference because he, or he wouldn't have said this. My fellow prisoner, whatever his name is, starts with an A there, Aristarchus, sends you his greetings, as does Mark, the cousin of Barnabas, you have received. the same mark yeah same guy same guy you have received instructions about him if he comes to you welcome him so there was definitely no animosity uh yeah from this from what was going on and and i just think to the spirit of what we're talking about because that makes people uncomfortable we do have a sectarian nature just as human beings based on culture which is what all this is about man when we read that when he said jesus is lord of all of all right you know he said jesus is lord of all

all and we focused on that word all we're better together the body of the Christ first Corinthians 12 you know if one member is hurt the rest of the body suffers and you're like what does that mean if you stub your toe you will notice it by the rest of your body's reaction yeah and you're like well it's just a little toe but there's nothing worse than stubbing your most of the biggest arguments that I was involved in all my years of ministry pastoral leadership were used over somebody who had made a mistake, and then it was, well, how do we use them going forward or in this moment? It was always, it was something just like this.

I mean, this situation, a guy made a mistake. He's young. He shouldn't have bailed on him. He did. Paul doesn't want to use them. The other guy says he needs a second chance. I mean, that is the framework for most all arguments I had about trying to shepherd people. And you too, right, that we over and over and over again.

So this is universal, and it's also. stands the test of time. But look, I told about the three interactions I had with people that were bringing up issues that they felt like they disagree with at the moment. But I also had a pastor come up to me. Of course, he was whispering

and he was looking behind both shoulders, which was funny. And he said, you know, I listen to y'all's podcast. I mean, this is a pastor at a church who seeks me out. And he's like, I got to tell you, brother. He said, I don't think we've been focused on Jesus. He said, I feel like after listening to Y' podcast,

we're cut off from the world, there's not many of us, and we're just trying to believe right. And I think we missed it. I think we miss what God has called us to do, and I just want to thank you for that, and we're going to make some changes, you know. And I thought those are the kind of things.

Was this at the event? You're up? Yeah, at the event. I was, I'm telling you, it was a weird thing. I've heard the same thing for it. It's so encouraging to me to know that there's a lot of guys out there who are leading and who are fighting these fights we're talking about and live these disputes like we just described in acts. And it seems like you're not getting anywhere, but you are. And you have to be diligent.

But this pastor was right, Jay's, if you can stay focused on Jesus, that's what I've noticed. You know, I'm getting to kind of preach in two eras of my life. And the second goal around, me not working for the church, but just kind of doing it. as a volunteer. I've noticed I'm much more Jesus and Bible-centric than I was earlier. I was much more trying to be trendy and, you know, books that were popular and doing series and you just kind of get caught up and all that. But man, you got to stay focused. Well, you get in, I think the sectarian part is you get into the, and I get it, it's, it's, you want the cover of the group, right? Because it's already hard enough to stand for, for Jesus in the public square. So I want to get in with a group that has a system

a systematic theology, which can be helpful in some regard, but then you get into the group, and then they teach you all the phraseology, back to Jason's point earlier, and then you repeat that. And then it's like, but, and you get backing if you stick to the, what the group, you know, the group thing, but it's, but again, it's, it's a flawed view of, of salvation, because it's an assumption that this is primarily about getting the right belief system, you know, as opposed to coming into a relationship with the living God. That is not the same thing.

And you can, you can smell it and taste it in the conversation when if all the conversation is about some kind of like belief system or, or, they'll have it all packaged up in the right way. And then you got to, you got to believe this. And then, and then, but they're not talking about Jesus, the person of who he is, his divine nature, his beauty, his wonder, the peace of mind that surpasses all understanding, life in Christ, vibrancy, love, joy, peace, patience. You don't smell that in it, where when you focus on the king, when you focus on the person

of Christ and all these other things are, that's what the Bible says. Seek first, what? The kingdom of God and then all these other things will be added unto you. But we what we want to do? We want to flip it. and we say, we think if we could get all the other things right, then the kingdom will be added unto us. That's not what it says.

Seek first the kingdom, and then the other things get added on it. I think their argument, though, is, because I had another interesting conversation with a guy, their argument's going to be, because I agree with what you said, but they're going to say, because this is what this pastor told me, was, well, you've got to rightly divide the word of truth. So they're like, they're not willing. willing to be civil to other believers because they view that they're, they're mishandling the Bible.

They're like, well, we have to find out exactly what the Bible says. The problem with that approach is there's a lot in the Bible. And a lot of things are kind of hard to figure out exactly what it means. And I'm saying other than revealing who he is. And so that's why I always say the Bible is about Jesus because I'm trying to get people to realize that things you may not agree on or may be dead wrong on. Let's be patient and study and learn and be civil during the process

instead of saying, you got that wrong, you're out. So it would be my comeback to that. Yeah, and I think that's what shows. That pretty well is explained in Acts 15 on how. they let it be known it's not right yeah for the issues that came up the gentiles were kind of what we read in in revelation idolatry and the sex immorality if you're you know if you have any kind of idolatry in your life in your practical life in that case it was eating food that had been sacrificed to idols they're like you know it's just not a good look and which i agreed with i mean

but there's only one God, and that's who we are. So we're just not going to try to claim God as Savior and then live like the world. I think the sectarian nature, though, it's not to be a faithful witness of Christ, you can still hold firm to the truth and to separate truth, then the truth of the Bible and to discuss very important issues in the text. that's one thing. What separates the sectarian from that is the sectarian divides over it and divides families and uses it as a weapon for their own advancement of themselves.

And so, you know, I've seen it in all kinds of areas. And, like, you know, I love the deep discussions. I mean, I love them. I love to get into all the questions about God's divine foreknowledge and predestination and all that. I think it's edifying to a degree until you divide over it. And one of my favorite authors, I pulled up this quote because I think it hits right on the nose of what we're saying.

A.W. Tosier wrote this in the pursuit of God. And I thought, man, this is so good. Because even in our audience, we have people that disagree on these issues. We have people who would disagree on what does predestination mean. What is God's divine sovereignty really mean? Listen to what Tosier writes. God will not hold us responsible to understand the mysteries of election, predestination, and the divine sovereignty.

The best and safest way to deal with these truths is to raise our eyes to God, and in deepest reverence say, O Lord, thou knowest. Those things belong to the deep and mysterious profound of God's omniscience. Prying into them may make great theologians, but it will never make saints. And I thought, I read that for the first time. I thought, man, I want to be, I want to have that humility when I am going into discuss who God is. I, I, I just can only access a little bit of who he is. And I don't want to carry this false confidence into discussion with people that I've

got it all figured out when the best I can do, the very best I can do is with the deepest reverence say, Lord, thou knowest. That's what I can do. No, that's good. Well, I love that Luke put this in here about the dispute because I think he is showing us some greater truths from these early incidents with the church and how Jesus still motivates us. The next story does the same thing. It's one of my favorites because it introduces Timothy, who we know we've got these letters that Paul wrote in first and second Timothy, which are some of the, I mean, some really good stuff about lifestyle and, you know, what our. our purpose is.

And it's the same thing. I think Luke is showing us that along the journey, especially as we get older, I mean, all of us are getting older, Zach, you're the youngest of our four here, that we realize our role begins to be what we pass on for other people to take beyond us. Yeah. And so that's this young guy. So obviously Timothy was when the first time Paul came through with Barnabas in Derby and Listra, Timothy was part of a family.

His mother, her name was Eunice, and the grandmother is Lois. We read about them as 2nd Timothy 1-5. And Paul has a real affinity because these were Jews that he encountered that first time through, pop it after he taught the synagogue, and they became believers. And so Timothy, who I'm imagining being like a teenager, something, you know, a young man for sure, you know, his dad was a Greek. And so the Acts account here kind of brings in the circumcision thing, and we mentioned this before, because Paul, who wants to take him with him, wants him to have access to the synagogues and to Jewish hearers. So he circumcises him because he hadn't been circumcised because he had a Jewish father, I mean a Gentile father.

And just think about that practically, Al. So you know they had had the struggle of the Jews saying, well, I'm not even sure. you can be my wife. Yeah. I'm not sure you can make it to heaven. Right, exactly. You know, just think about those, those, or did I have that backwards? Yeah, she was Jewish and he was great, right.

So, I mean, that had to be a challenge in that family. Of course it was a challenge. She had to realize, oh, the Gentiles can be saved too, because up until that point, no. Right. So you're marrying someone? And now even Timothy's future in going with Paul is she. shaped up in whether he was circumsized or not. So you can see where those issues would be there.

Let's take our lives right. Which is what I thought was probably a way for their family to get over some of these rifts that they had in the past that you know had to have come up. They did. And I don't know, maybe that's why Paul was drawn to this situation. Maybe he just saw something in Timothy. But here's what got me. I went when I was researching for this, and there were several verses in first and

Timothy mostly, where Paul shows a real affinity and love for Timothy. I mean, it's like, it's more than just, you know, because Paul was single, we didn't have kids, but, you know, he views this guy as somebody to take under his wing and teach him and train him to be able to do what he's doing. And he actually called him his son. A son in the faith. Like twice. Yeah.

He says it in the first chapter. So here's what got me. And I may have told the story before, but I'm not sure I have. whenever Bill Smith, who was the guy that dad mentioned earlier in the podcast, who led him to Jesus and did it with these symbols, Jay Saz on his hat today, he was a guy I worked with in my 25 years of ministry before he crossed over in 2016. And he had told me, he said, he was very disappointed when I left full-time ministry, you know, because, I mean, he really was close to me. He called me son all the time, a son, just like Paul did. But it was a, you know, we weren't, we're not related other than by the blood of Christ. And so he had told me he wanted me to speak at his funeral.

He made that clear to his family. And I took it as such an honor because this man taught thousands and thousands of people and disciples them. So when we were, Lisa and I were working a cruise, and it was a Christian, a cruise, and we were working it. And when we left a port, I got a call that he had crossed over. And I said, well, it was going to be a couple of days before I get back. No problem. So I sat down because that asked me to speak. And I started trying to think, what am I going to say?

This is my mentor. This is a guy that taught me pretty much everything I know in the Bible. I felt very unworthy trying to figure something out. And so I just closed my Bible. And I thought, I don't know. I'll just have to come back to this. So I prayed about it. And you know what hit me?

And then when this hit me, then I just sat down and wrote. out my whole presentation I did his funeral. What would Timothy say at Paul's funeral? Because that's kind of relationship that I had with Bill. He was my Paul. And so, and I just sat down. I brought it today because rereading it was really interesting. And I saw, man, somebody that gives you so much spiritual insight and wisdom that then you get to go and share and that becomes part of your life. And every one of us needs somebody in our life like that, that has that sort of relationship. So, I mean, I'm just very thankful for a guy like Bill, but I thought about it. I know Timothy was the exact same way about Paul and the opportunities that he gave him to be able to do that.

It is interesting that the end of chapter 15 of book of Acts, but sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we're writing. It seems good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond following crimeers they're trying to help these people. You're to abstain from food, sacrifice to idols. Don't do that. From blood, they were still with that blood that they got out of the Old Testament out of the law.

From the meat of strangled animals is from sexual immorality. All he says is you'll do well to avoid these things. Yeah. Just don't do that. Well, I like it because it wasn't like it. They were there and they could have been mean to them, but they said, look, here's some things here. You need to, don't do these things.

Yeah. And then on their way, farewell, it said they went on their way. Well, so much of that gets brought up again in all the letters because all you can do is trying to encourage people to do the right thing. They weren't mean about it. No, the biggest problem in church leaders have is they think they can make people do the right thing. You can't. People have to decide. This is a volunteer army. You've got to decide. All you're trying to do is lay out the best possible scenarios. You know, it gets into disagreement between Paul and Barnabas. It just goes right on, right? So you got friction here, a little friction here, there. Just a tough, tough thing to do, Al.

It is. And so I think having people that can show you and lead by example can teach you, can lead you, can keep pointing back. to Jesus. That's the sort of relationship that Paul has with Timothy and we should all have those and we should strive to be that. When people say, I mean, a lot of times you just think, well, man, I just don't seem to be growing in Christ. I always say, well, who are you impacting

with Christ and for Christ? Because that's the whole thing. I mean, this should be a constant part of your life. There should be people that are helping mentor you and people you are helping mentor because everybody's on different wavelengths in Christianity. So that's why I love about this story. it's about it's about a guy and it shows you the personal nature of being a disciple and what that looks like and so you know i think that's important for us to realize as we look at that and you go and

read first and second timothy you see some great challenges in there for him to be able to do so anyway he runs up on him um it says he wanted to take him all on the journey so he's circumcised him because of the jews who lived in that area for all they knew that his father was a gree so he wanted him to have access into these Jewish audiences, which he would have because his mother was Jewish, but he wasn't circumcised. That's why I did it. Although, what is it? In Galatians 2, he says that Titus was compelled not to be circumcised because he was a Greek

as well. So it shows you that Paul used contextually even this contentious issue to be able to reach people. And I think, Zach, you brought it up. Where is it were 1st Corinthians 9, all things to all men, the gospel, so the gospel can be preached. So as they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey. So, Dad, that was your point. They took the letter with them and they shared.

They said, look, these elders in Jerusalem, they think it's good to stay away from this stuff. You know, these idols and the blood and the sexual immorality. So the churches were strengthened in the faith and grew daily in numbers. And it was interesting because, Jason, I looked at that, the Greek, phrase there, the churches were strengthening the faith. It's the same word we would use if someone is like a, you know, and they kind of go from middle school to high school, you kind of got that baby fat that goes to muscle and you kind of watch a young man become a man. That's the same Greek

thought there. Now, that was interesting because as faith strengthens, so to size. And what happens is it gets larger because it starts impacting people of the region. So that's that's the idea. of it. So as he's going back through, that's what happens. Then I'll introduce this next thought because we don't have much time now. When we get to verse six, he's going to go to Asia is where he's headed. But something interesting happens. And I'm just going to read it and we'll have to talk about most of them in the next podcast. Paul and his companions travel through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. So we'll talk about what does that mean?

When they came to the border of Misia, they tried to enter Bithenia, but the spirit of Jesus would not allow them to. So there's the second time they've been rebuffed. So they passed by Missia and went down to Troas. Now, if you looked at this on a map, they're just kind of running out of real estate. Now they're back to the sea. During the night, Paul had a vision of a man of Macedonia standing and begging him, come over to Macedonia and help us.

After Paul had seen the vision, we got ready at once to leave from Macedonia, as concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them. So that's what's going to get them to Philippi, which will get us to Lydia and then the Philippian jailer and everything that happens going forward. But it was kind of an interesting way that that happened with, they were blocked twice. It doesn't say what happened. I mean, it just said the Holy Spirit wouldn't let them do it.

But I do think the point is, because a lot of people now, modern day, say, well, these things are still happening. And look, maybe there is. I mean, the more I'm a follower of Jesus, the less I believe in accidents. And you see a lot of divine encounters, I think, with people. But in this case, it was getting the message out. because it's like this was all about getting the gospel of Jesus declared. And there seems to be a lot of supernatural occurrences that are happening to confirm that idea. And you are trying to let all cultures know that Jesus is available and the Holy Spirit is available.

So I do think there's something in that of a confirmation. of this happening? Because, you know, you think was this happening audibly? Right. Because today, you know, you fast forward, and I just run upon a lot of people that God has telling them to do this and God is telling them to do that and don't do this. But a lot of this stuff, you're thinking, I'm not sure God's telling you that. Yeah.

You know, so I don't think it's about hearing voices. I think if you put as a priority, what are we called to do? We're called to declare Jesus and participate in kingdom ventures today. And we have the Holy Spirit. So how is the Holy Spirit helping us? What are the things we can agree on that's happening? You know, when we pray, when we meditate, you know, when we fast, when we have conversations with people about spiritual things, with spirit-filled people, and these things are occurring? I'm just trying to say, don't always think that you have to hear something.

some voice talking to you. We do have the Bible now, which they didn't. Well, look, we've been hearing voices going on here. I mean, Paul heard one on the road to Damascus, right? So it seems very vague, and I think it's vague for a reason, is that things weren't working out, so Paul assumed the Holy Spirit is saying, we don't need to go over there.

It's not that it was some big production. It was just the idea. It doesn't seem to work out. The Holy Spirit doesn't want us to go. And then they get a vision and says, come here. So, I mean, I think it's as easy as that. Well, I got asked when I was at the movie, because the movie, the unsung hero, there's a lot in there about they were calling things miracles. And it was just, it was more occurrences that were happening that they felt, you know, was a sign from God.

But it was through answered prayer. And they actually say that in the movie. And I said, we got to remember people used the word miracle. it's a tough word to define. You know, there were miracles that happened in the Bible that defied laws of nature and physics. But all of life is a miracle from crops coming out of the ground to, I mean, you see the presence of God just in the way things work. And so I said, I think in the light of the context they were using that word,

I thought it was a good thing, you know? They just realized that even though they were sure, struggling, that these things kept happening that there was no rational explanation. Now, it wasn't a miracle as far as a breaking of the law of nature that proved that Jesus was the Christ. But it was little subtle things that kept pointing them back to why they were doing what they were doing. So they called it a miracle. I'm fine with that. I mean, it is supernatural working of God. It was a recognition of their faith. All right, we're out of time. We'll pick it up here. We've got some cool stuff coming up in 16 and 17 here, so we'll get to it next time on Unashamed.

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