Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 886 | Miss Kay Literally Lights Up Phil’s Life & Jase Almost Throws Hands in Preaching School

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Phil gets Miss Kay back at home a couple of days a week, and he didn’t realize how much he missed her until now! Jase is a temporary bachelor while Missy is traveling, but he’s able to see the silver lining. Al recounts some of the biggest jams Jase got himself into during preaching school, like offending his instructors from the pulpit and aggressively offering another student the “right hand of fellowship.” The guys discuss the relationship between God and science, including the way Paul used reason to grow the church, how modern people argue for or against science as evidence of God, and what exactly can or can’t be proven scientifically. In this episode: Acts 17; Hebrews 3, verses 4-6 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm looking here, because I'm at the southern layer, I'm looking at my computer screen, and I'm seeing that Dad and Zach have the earth tones, if you're watching today, they've got the darker kind of earth colors. Jason and I, we are saying that spring is here. We're very color. color for him bright. And we didn't plan this. Jason, it's a good thing I wasn't in the layer because you and I would have looked like we had matching shirts on.

You know, I was going to go play golf today after this. So, Phil, at golf courses, you have to wear a collared shirt. That's why you've never seen me on the golf course. I saw you there that one time. Who would be worried about what shirt you're wearing? Yeah.

You'd be aware. of that? Oh, there's people. There's people looking. There are groups of people that get together and they come up with rules and they're all based around who belongs. Jason, did you notice

that I don't know if you saw this at the Masters this year, they came out on the course. Jason Day, who's I think he's Australian, his shirt was a bit loud was the problem. And so they asked him

to change shirts or put a jacket on them. So you had to wear like a vest. Yeah, that happened. There you go, there you go, Phil. Yeah, that's the rule. That shirt, that means a lot in our country. It does. Boy, don't miss the, don't miss the right shirt.

I mean, got to happen. Well, dad has varying degrees of t-shirts that with varying degrees of stained, whether they're worthy of public viewing or just, just for his down there. there. None of them are white. They're not playing white teas. When your woman goes on the knife bed to get her ailments, take her ailments, have surgery, you'll be surprised, you know, what kind of what they're wearing.

Is anybody washing them for you down there? I don't even ask that question. Are you just out of clothes or has there been a person that helps out with that? I probably should have checked them. I just keep wearing the same clothes. Oh, boy. To they still get a little smell to them. And you can't smell.

That day he's washing. Well, Phil, you looked at a man that's just almost 80 and trying to figure out what type clothes they're going to wear. I just don't get it. I've been so focused on mom. I apologize, Dad. We should have had somebody. I know you've had food because Joe's been cooking, but I didn't even think about your clothes. Phil, I think you should bring back the clothes line.

You're already anti-cell phone. You're anti-washing machines. I hate to rar up and seem like a weasel, you know, with our current culture. But I'll tell you, our culture, Jays, for lack of a better term, stinks. Like your clothes. There's an ironic. And I'm telling you the dress is not going to break it up either. Jay's,

I want to let you know I'm officially against the clothesline because back when we used to have one that was in between dad and mom's house and then the house I lived in next door. That thing was a magnet for purple tail wasp and red wasp. They would make their nest inside those clothesline poles. And I was stung on multiple years on multiple occasions walking around that or underneath that clotheslines. So I had a lot of injuries resulted from that. You had the wasp. You had all kind of encounters that we got in as boys. On the run?

Yeah, you would forget that there was a line somewhere that when you're running so fast and you just. Well, well. It happened so many times. Hence the term close-lined. That's where it came from, dude. It came from, and it was adequately. All I can say is the fruit that is being currently presented coming out of guys, y'all's age, with your faith in the gospel, God. y'all did well to come out of your background you did very well borderline miraculous yeah at least

supernatural i've seen a lot of family structures but you know a lot of them are disjointed you've just it just just just a mayhem but not with all not with y'all you y'all stayed the course well and that that goes back to generations but that's a great point dad and i appreciate you're saying that because generational blessings are far better than generational curses. I'm just going to say that. That is right. It's a straight out statement. It's way better to have generation after a generation that tries and attempts to do the right thing.

You bet. And you try to teach that as it goes along. Well, you can't sweat the little stuff, you know. I was talking before we came on air because Phil and I are actually functioning as bachelors at this particular time of our life and uh i was saying that you know because it's been nice because i don't have to for the last three days i haven't had to close the curtains where i sit on the couch and i hadn't had to turn i hadn't had to turn i hadn't had to turn down the thermostat on the air because for about i guess i think

been married almost 34 years. I opened the curtains. I mean, my wife opens the curtains. I close them. She turns up the thermostat. I turn it down. And I tried to discuss it on a couple of occasions, but the conversation became too volatile. So I just thought, you know what? Don't sweat the little stuff. It's just part of my existence on a daily basis. I'm going to turn down that thermostat, only to have to do it again. And I'm going to have to close those curtains where I'm sitting so the sun is not glaring. I'm giving some keys to life, Errol. Yeah, and you don't, you're not holding it against you.

See, that's the difference. You're not holding it against you. You're just saying, okay, that's what we're going to do. Yeah, I'm, there's no remorse or, oh, I'm going to get you. It's just, I just thought, okay, this is, this is the way it is. And it's only a couple of seconds a day. And this is just who we are. I'm not going to sweat the little stuff.

I'm just going to go by. I think that's common. I think that's a common issue. I mean, our house, it's the thermostat. There's two issues. One, the lights. Jill likes to have the lights on for aesthetic purposes, but I'm like, there's nobody in the house to see it.

So let's turn them off. So I'll go to turn them all off. She turns them back on. And the other one is, is that they'll have the heat on downstairs and the air conditioning on upstairs. And so that really, that one gets me. I think I'm seeing the situation in your house, Zach, it's aesthetics versus economics for you. Yeah.

Because you're thinking, we're wasting money by counteracting ourselves. But I'm sweating it. So I haven't got to the point where I'm not sweating it yet, Josh. Oh, yeah, you'll get there. So you're, I'm older. Yeah. What's weird is this is not only to genders because in my house, the lights are the opposite. She likes turning the lights off, and I flip them on.

I mean, it just, of course, I'm usually studying. So she's like, well, you can use the light on your phone. She actually said that one time. I thought, you know, we have these. Look, when you go into my house out in the living quarters, how many lights are there? I mean, I bet there's 50. It's a lot of illumination. Why?

Because we have these little bitty lights in the ceiling. I'm like, why would we have all these? If your woman is taken from you, and mine has been taken from me. So sick, if they get sick on you, or they need health care, I mean, then you're there to run the show. The show, 99% of the time, you pull away now and walk inside my house, it's just nothing. I mean, it's just quiet. There's no, me and the dogs, and they don't even do much.

They look around me saying, I don't know, something's happening. When she rolls out, when she rose in, she came down yesterday, and she had her little roller walking, you know, get their legs, a little strength doing better for the people who might wonder about it. Yeah. But she's got a little rollers, she rolls. She's getting up and down by herself. So I'm taking care of my woman. I never had done that to this degree.

Yeah. Well, that's good that you're doing that. Yeah. Well, she's been convalescing in our neighborhood because it's easier access for the, physical therapy and occupational therapy people. That's why she hadn't gotten home yet because mom and dad live so far out. But she is definitely improving her spirits are up. She's ready to be home.

There's no doubt about that. My light bill, whatever it is, my light bill, it took a nose dive like you ain't seen lately. All devices that give you light, that's down to total darkness. There's not a light going. I said, we could save thousands of dollars if we did like this. But when she showed up, everything started lightened up. It's been kind of comical, Dad, because her sister, who's eight years older than mom, A&M, she came to, and I'm saying this in air quotes, if you're listening,

she came to help out. And I've noticed what happens is when you have the person you're taking care of when our older sister comes to help take care of her, we now have two older women to take care of. She is, now we have a squared situation. For lack of a better term, it begins to become rubbing you the wrong way. Well, it's just another factor in our household.

So I tell you who I've been feeling a little bit sorry for is one J. Stone from the duck hall room. He just in a trance sitting over there and walks in. If somebody's sitting in his chair, he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. He's been forced out of his own house. And so I see him just sitting on the back porch, Dad. I appreciate it. That's where she camped out for the convalesion with somebody else, not me. Anna has been a trooper through the whole process.

So we're glad that she's been there. But mom's improving. I know you guys have been asking a lot of questions about it. Thanks for the prayers. and all the concerns and Unashamed Nation. She's on her way back. I tell her every day, it's like,

Mom, every time she does something great and, you know, hits another goal, I said, you're getting closer to getting home, getting to your poochies and dad. So now she's coming out for visits,

which is great. But, yeah, it's been a family that has to put everything together. So I never had thought about it until I became one of the victims of years. I never had thought about it. You know, what would that mean up your woman?

Well, well, I got a dose of it for about two months. She just disappeared. But now she can come down a time of two a week, get on her walker and go around now. So she's coming out of it. She was trying to figure out, you know, what she needed to cook me a meal. My meal's dried up. Old Jersey come through over, you know. He got them on the both arms, put some for me, you know, so I'm still eating.

I mean, I have my own chef. You've got a personal chef, an Italian chef. Italian cage infusion. Yeah. And his meals are downright delicious. He's very good at what he does. All those years in the firehouse. Yesterday we showed him the advantages and the way it works with fruit that we gather from the woods.

I don't know how to make jelly, how to turn the fruit into jelly. So yesterday, I invited him. him down. It was pretty well one, two, three ago and we started, it was about Did he write it down or did he just watch it? No, he was watching. And within

two or three batches, I mean, he was there, the exact amount of fluid, the exact amount of, you know, what's the stuff that gets the sure jail? Yeah, sure jail, all that.

You know, how much he put in there. I mean, so he just fell right in there. And he probably stood there for, we made jelly for about two and a half, three hours. Did you sample it after it was over? You best believe I did. In Jersey, I went up there. He had cooked for him in the eating before. So he had some rolls kind of cooked out there, you know.

So I heaved them up, put the mahal jelly on some of the first jar. Went down and showed him. I said, that's what it's going to taste like. what you're doing. And he started eating. He said, that has got to be the best fruit on the planet. Well, now that he's family, dad, we'll turn the, maybe next year we can turn the jelly making over to him.

He was making jelly just getting it like he's been there for 100 or 100 years. Yeah. So it was a jelly making adventure there yesterday. It went well. We got them all ready to go. I gave him a good little, good rack of it, you know. he's brushing some of the stuff that he bakes and stuff.

He brushed it with, with a, yeah, the jelly. Fruit, the jelly. And he was showing what it would taste like. And I mean, it was fine. That's a new, that's a new thing that chefs are doing all around the country is your add sweet onto your savory meats and whatnots. And it's really, really good.

And mayhow, I don't think anybody's probably ever. Thought about Mahal jelly, but it makes a fantastic glaze. It does. So all that went well. So other than that, I'm looking at this book of Acts in about eight times. Philip, let's see, eight times. And the one that headed it up, what do we do? God has made this Jesus whom you crucified both Lord and Christ.

When the people heard it, they were cut to the heart. So how do you view somebody that's cut to the heart when they're being told the gospel about Jesus? Brothers, what shall we do? What do we do now? Because we're sorry, we didn't know we were killing the Son of God. Repent, Peter said, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus so that you may be forgiven and you'll receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That's laid out on the second page in the book of Acts.

And my question is, where did we get the idea that they shouldn't have faith in Jesus and they need to repent and be baptized? Because from there, about 10 times in the book of Romans, I mean in the book of Acts, it comes up. I just think, you know, across the board, people take that too lightly. And I'm glad you got us back to Axe, Dad, because we left off with Paul's journey. We had finally got to a story with a Philippian jailer because when he was in Philippi, he wound up not having kind of his usual way of doing business. So he wound up with these women down at the Riverbank who really became the first house church there in Philippi.

and I'm sure that the jailer and his family who had obeyed Christ and had become believers. Yeah, when the Apostle Paul talked to Anonis over there, right in the middle of all that, he said he sent me that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit. That's what Anonis told him. Immediately, something like, and this is the one who we're going to look at over in Acts chapter 13 and 14 in there, immediately something like scales just think about this fell from saul's eyes so he's got he's got scales on his eyes and he's he's blanked out he got up and well what you know and was baptized and after taking some food he got him he's hungry and he's starving to death at the same time he regained his

strength he was in a bad way and he talked about it the conversion but he It ended amazingly to prove my point. He was baptized. So when we run into the various people in our days, that's what I tell them. I tell them what Saul, what Paul went through. I think it's a powerful thing. It is. What he does now, he's going to move on from Philippi.

We get to Acts 17, which is where we're going to be today. And I did a little bit of research on it. Philippi is about a hundred miles from Thessalonica. So it's a pretty good little track. And, you know, he mentions it says in verse one, when they had passed through amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica. And there is a Jewish synagogue that's there.

And I looked at it on the mileage. And assuming he went straight through, that's, you know, old Paul and company are walking about 30 to 35 miles a day. to get, you know, from city to city to city. And time is beginning to show up. I noticed, I mean, I couldn't have done it, but y'all did. Thessal Kanaka was founded in 315 BC.

Yeah. You gave a little, I'm glad you put that in there. Yeah, and in our notes. We kind of failed to see that the time is one, two, three, four. It's really getting out there. from when Jesus was there. It's getting further and further out. You see what I'm saying?

Yep. And Jay's, it's a lot like Philippi because the general Cassander of Alexander the Great is the one who found it. That's La Nica. And it was really interesting because, you know, you remember the story later about Julius Caesar and Octavia and all the back and forth on the, you know, all the intrigue of that. Well, this guy was involved right in the middle of that. And this city was involved in the middle of that because you had to pick a side. And so they picked. You mentioned there was awarded when they was talking about Thessalonaka.

They were rewarded with freedom from taxes and allowed self-rule. Well, that was a big, there was some major things going on. Well, and it really is crucial, Zach, is what did they say? The people who win the wars are the ones who write the history. They're also the ones who get the spoils. And that's what happened in the city. I thought that was a very important thing for that culture because I'm looking at ours all these years later. And it also is going to show you some of why the, you know, just like we talked about in Philippa,

why some of the cultural things are there. And eventually, after we read some of this text, I wanted to even go to Thessalonians because when Paul writes a letter to him, he's addressing. some of these same issues that we've been talking about, you know, that are there. Let me read this section, and then we can talk about it. Is that part of the Saul's synagogue strategy to preach the gospel? That was the strategy of the whole thing, which is amazing. And it's where you find. And build a local core to begin a church, which would have to be.

A lot of people just miss those small things like that. It becomes, they are a large thing. Yeah, and you make a good point out, because what he's doing, is he's trying to build a little troop every city he goes into a people he can depend on because Paul knows he's got to leave. I mean, he's moving on. Nothing has changed, by the way, from reading this to current day, modern day, on how you would build a church.

That's right. You've got to find some light-minded believers. You've got to have a little troop there to work with. I mean, that's pretty much what Zach has done in his community. Is that a fair way to say in Zach? I mean, you had a troop of people who now are impacting your immediate surroundings in your culture. And it does bear fruit. It bears fruit.

Yeah, but there's more mentions of house churches in the Bible than any other. That's right. That's how he's the mess. You read the end of every letter after acts, and when you get to the end, it's like greet the church that meets at their house and greet the church that meets at this house. which I think it's interesting. If we're not careful, you know, we can tend to go back to the same dilemma that was going on here in Acts that Paul, for that matter, Jesus and Stephen. Very much so. They all keep saying the same thing that God's not in.

He's not confound to the temple, to the building, to the structure. That's why, but it's interesting that when Paul goes into Thessalonica and then Berea and then Athens, the places that he goes is into the synagogues. So he goes to the synagogue. He goes to meet with him in Thessalonica. And this is, I would say, I would add this other thing that's necessary to start at church is the scriptures. Paul went in, as was his custom. And on three, on three Sabbath days, he reasoned with them from the scriptures,

explaining and proving that it was necessary for Christ to suffer and rise from the dead. So you have him going in meeting with Jewish people using the Hebrew scriptures to make the case for Christ. He does that in Thessalonica. He does it in Berea in verse 10 of chapter 17. He does it in Athens. And you didn't need a structure. You didn't need a structure. He didn't need it, but that's where they thought,

everything was in the structure and not just the Jews, but also the Greeks, because then he moves into the Ariopagus in verse 22. And in verse 24, he makes the point to them that God's not in your temples. He doesn't live in temples that are made by human hands. It's an important thing. Oh,

it's very important. I pulled a prank on Missy last Sunday when we were in Nashville. Because on our way to meet where my son and his wife, meet. I saw a big, nice building. Of course, I was just Sunday, you know, I'm checking out the people coming in. And there was this huge sign in front of it. It said, the Lord's house.

Huge. So I slowed down. She's like, what are you doing? I said, I'm going to try to ask somebody about that on the way by. She's like, why? I was like, because they have that attached to the building that says the Lord's house. I just want to ask them about it. Of course, I was just kidding.

She was like, do not start an argument in the church parking lot of somewhere we're not meeting. I just want to hear, why would you put that sign there? Don't sweat the small stuff is what she was telling you. Yeah. I lived to see another day. But I mean, it is, but we do see. I mean, I think it's, I don't think it's wrong to have a big building, but I do think that we grew up thinking that there's something special about the actual building of this.

And it's not, I mean, it's the old, you know, we did that thing where we were kids where you put your fingers together. And it's here's the church and here's the steeple. And then you open up your hands and here's all the people. Yeah, but the truth is that the church is the people. And it's, and the church can meet in homes. The church can meet in a field. the church can meet in a cave, the church can meet in a building, the church can meet, I mean, the church can meet anywhere. But we put so much emphasis on the, on the structure of it and even the tax status of the church, you know.

But it's like, the church is a lot more viral than something that's, you know, encased. It's not made it and it's a lot cheaper way to roll. I didn't have a problem with the buildings. I had a problem with the sign saying the Lord's house. Yeah. Hebrews 3, 4, for every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. Verse 6 of chapter 3, Hebrews. But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house, and we are his house if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.

There it is. Why would you put that sign there? Misunderstandard. Based on what I just read. Misunderstand. I mean, I'll give you another one if you want it, but I think that one's enough. Also, Jace, I would say most of the conflict we have in the modern church comes from what goes on inside the building all the time. I mean, most of the fighting and the splitting and the dividing.

Somebody called it the magic hour. Yeah. It's the hour on Sunday morning, which I think does matter. And I probably have aired on the side of diminutive. finishing that, but more than I should have. But it, but the emphasis that we put on what happens in the building in that particular space, man, what if we put that same amount of energy and effort into focusing on what goes on the rest of our life? You know, it'd be, it'd be a, we would live a lot different lives. And we probably would experience a, a much greater,

a degree of spiritual formation into the image of Christ. If we, if we flip the emphasis and put more emphasis on like the rest of the week in our own. our daily life. I taught a cricket sermon one time. There has to be room for the elders, the deacons. There is some. There is some. I think I did this at school, maybe.

It was one of my, we used to get up and give, what do they call them? Chapel. Yeah, chapel sermons. And so, I mean, just imagine the pressure here. So every student. Chapels were, they just were wrought with, danger for the student. Well, yeah, because they're like, here you are trying to inspire people for Jesus that are

out of Bible school by giving a sermon, which is what I was trying to do. But all the instructors are sitting on the front row thinking, you know, this guy just ain't got it, you know, or whatever. I mean, I'm implying that, but Al knows what I mean. Because if you went off down a rabbit hole that they didn't like, you were confronted later in private. So I had many of those confrontations. So I did it.

They didn't hold back, Jay, so they just go right. There was no like, it wasn't like softened the blood. They just came in. There's no soft shoe here. Well, the worst thing I did was I challenged. We're not a denomination, but boy. Well, the worst thing I did was in challenge, when I challenged their marketing ploy, they had a little insignia about preach the word.

Yeah. And it had a little insignia. there and I so I did a deal about the word is Jesus it became flesh so you should at least had a figure of a human on right the Bible you know the word preach the word but but what I got in trouble for the illustration I'm going to give here was I said you know it seems like to me if we're going to call this the Lord's house which is you know they didn't call it that but I was saying it's implied because once you walk in you you've entered the sanctuary the holy god so i said so i think we should make everybody take off their shoes and now i was doing it

seriously but i was showing by this illustration the absurdity of this view they were looking at each other saying need to get him off the get it's called argumentum absurdity There's your cricket term. Thank you, Zach. You pushed the argument to its logical end to show the absurdity of the argument. That's what you were doing. And there was two verses that I gave to prove my point when the burning bush happened. And you remember the angel of the Lord, which I actually think is Jesus manifesting himself as an angel in that.

Sometimes we need to do a dive on that one because that's an interesting topic. Yeah. And what was Jesus all about before he became? human he i know he was about something but because because there it seems like he was receiving worship but so you're thinking well it wasn't an angel so anyway that's that's a different topic for a different time but in that case and the case of the marching around jericho same thing it was like take off your shoes because this is holy ground well why was it holy because the presence of god was there and i was like so here we are saying well the presence of

of God is here, and the only two instances in the Old Testament that I came up when they were talking about that, they got them shoes off. It was a direct command. I was like, if we're going to take it down that, you know, down that row where some people say, well, you can't eat, once you enter, go through a doorway and go into the sanctuary, you can't eat anything except the Lord's supper. And I always just found that fascinating. Or you have to take your hat off. I'm like, well, why not go ahead and take your shoes off? Because I have a couple passages about that, you know.

So I was trying to show, and my point was that if you're going into a structure and you're inviting the presence of God in, I think we're missing a lot of passages. If we have the Holy Spirit, the present is here. If we're to the Lord's house five minutes before. we walked in. And so I made a point that we should never wear shoes. So I thought it was a, what was it, Zach, an absurdum?

Argumentum absurdum. I thought it was a good argumentum absurdum, but I got called in on the carpet on that. And I'm really not sure what the argument was, but I kept saying, God doesn't live in temples. That's all I was saying. You were right. And that's where we're at in Act 17. He's going to specifically say that. Well, it's funny.

Let's take another break. It's funny, Jase, because I think our instructors, who's later became our mentors, saw we were rough around the edges, but they saw something in us, but they knew we didn't kind of fit the typical preacher training model. And I fit it a little bit better than you fit it. But I think in both of us, we were just different. But, hey, we've been able to do a lot of stuff. Was Willie in at the same time you guys were?

Willie was a little after us. Yeah. No, Willie went ahead and finished off the school. He shut the school down one year of Willie, and that was the end of the WFR School of Biblical Study. But back then I had that spirit of, you know, the male Gibson with the Brave Heart. Remember when he said, they said, what are you doing? He said, I'm picking a fight. I had that attitude about everything, you know, because I loved, I wanted to argue.

That's why I was pulling the prank on Missy, you know. I was acting like I was going to get into some theological debate because I do like to argue. And we were more at it back then. Of course, Zach's always liked it too. But Jay didn't like our fellow students when they took away our little creature comforts like our little break time because some of them were a little bit dry, especially in the afternoon. And there was one particular brother that sat down there next to Jay's. And he loved to ask like a penetrating question. a minute before break time.

And Chase, Chase would give the biggest eye rolls you've ever seen to the whole class like, oh, this guy. I mean, they almost came to blows. Well, we almost came to blows because I told him to shut up. Which I shouldn't have, but I've been sitting there three hours without a break. One minute before the bell, he asked a question that. I thought was ridiculous.

And I just said where only he could hear it, why don't you just shut up, go home and study. So he didn't like that. No, he didn't. So he confronted me after it was over. And then I feel like I'm confessing my sins here. Whatever happened. He may listen to the pocket.

He might because then when he said, hey, I don't appreciate you doing that. And I said, well, you're probably not going to appreciate me giving you the right hand of fellowship unless you back off. That's what I said. So I took that verse out of context. James went from Preacher student to Roy D. Mercer at about five seconds. I had about three of those conversations that I repented over. It's not right to threaten violence, but I did.

In Jason's defense, he was 19 years old. So it was not like he was, you know, a lot of us are. lot more brash at 19 than we are in our 50s. I was raised in a rough environment, and I learned from a certain family member that sometimes you just need to say what you're thinking. And even though I may not be popular, and so I went through the stage of my life where everything I thought, I said, and it caused a lot of problems. Well, it was lucky for Jace, and here we are still together, Jayce, after all these years,

that I was your wingman because I was pretty diplomatic and new. how to work through the system. So I covered got Jays through. Anyway, let's get back to the text. We get off on preaching school stories. We'll be here until next week. So, Zach, you describe the strategy. He comes in the synagogue. Verse four says some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and not a few prominent women. So the strategy is working because he starts with commonality. Because he knows in the Jewish synagogue, there are going to be some who recognize this idea of the Messiah. And if he can convince them that Jesus really was the Messiah,

then he's got, you know, he's got a troop. He's got a house church. He's got a group. But I like how it went outside of just those Jewish males quickly into this Greek culture of prominent women because they were, I mean, in this culture, they were very prominent in being there. And we saw the same thing with Lydia. Yeah. And I think, I think, just to reiterate, too, we've said this in the podcast a lot. And I think this is another example of it is that how did he persuade them? He persuaded them with the Hebrew scriptures.

So he's going back to those prophets like Isaiah. Ezekiel and he's he's explaining to them. He's showing them all of these Psalms 22. He's going back to the Old Testament. He said, here's look at the scriptures in this light. And I think this is important because there's a little word in here in my translation that says he went, as was this custom, on, and on three Sabbath days, he reasoned with them. Oh, boy. And, you know, you think about we live in a culture that we tend to think.

that to be a Christian, you have to make this leap of faith into the unknown. And that is not what the Bible teaches. You're not asked to make a leap into something irrational. Paul used reason to convince people through the scriptures. Faith is not a leap into the unknown. Faith is something that has substance to it. Faith is knowable. Hebrews 11 says it's assurance, it's confidence, it's confidence, it's anchored. And so I think that's important because you see the same kind of language when they're talking about was a Hebrews 11 where it says that Abraham reasoned that God could raise Isaac from the dead.

And that's why. So the reason why he put his faith in that moment in God was that he used his ability to reason. So you're not asked to jump into a leap of the unknown. And I think that what Christ brings, the scriptures, they speak what's called propositional truths, and you can test them to see whether or not they're true or not. So Paul's going in with that kind of framework. He's not saying, hey, take some leap.

I know this doesn't make any sense, but just believe it. He's saying, no, here's the reason why you should believe it. And here, when he's speaking to Jewish people, he's using scripture. when he goes to the Greeks later on, he uses their own cultural language. He uses some philosophy and apologetics to make the same point. But it's interesting to me that the power of the scriptures didn't just convince the Jews here. It also says that many of the devout Greeks were convinced as well. Yeah, and the idea is spread.

Let's take our last word. In fact, the Greek word there for reason, die legamy, is where we get the term dialogue from. It means to discuss, converse, argue, and instruct. So obviously there has to be something there to do all that with.

And you're right. It was the content. There's a reason why he kept doing the same thing, city after city after city is because it was working. Yeah. It was impacting people. However, however,

now I'm not disagreeing, but I am pushing back a little bit on this. because I think a lot of people use this chapter and they think, oh, this is our like Zach said, the apologetics section. And I realize it says reason and mine says explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the debt. And I'm all for it, but I'm saying it was reasoning and explaining and proof about Jesus and who he was and his death and brown resurrection. Because a lot of people today, they go

around to these debate circles, and they debate all these issues. Oh, yeah. But it becomes, like, detached from who Jesus is. Yeah, that's a good point. Oh, that's a great point. Okay, because I want to say that because I feel like, I made a statement one time that the book Acts is not about apologetics and it's about a declaration that Jesus died was buried and raised. Yeah. And I was thinking the same thing you did. I came up with a fascinating discovery because, you know, people, it's like the best illustration I can use for this is a movie that I love, Nacho Libre, has something.

There's a line in there that I hate. and I forget the exact phraseology, but it's something like, you don't believe in God, and El Skeletor says, I believe in science. And whoever wrote that movie, they tried to contrast that,

oh, this is God against science, which is, I just had a question from a family member who's writing a paper, and they said, basically the question was, I want to read the question, exactly like it is because I didn't even respond because I thought well I don't even believe this

what would your response be to someone who thinks the Bible is a human book inspired but God inspired by God but it doesn't align with scientific fact I was like crickets and and we've made the point that I mean God is science I mean, do we all agree with that? Yeah. So, and this is my point. When you get a question like that, all of a sudden you start getting all these, you know, what is the argument? So I made a fascinating thought because when you think about it, let's just say a group of scientists would say, we're going to go see if it's possible for a person to be resurrected.

Because the bottom line is when you read Acts 17, what Zach just read, he reasoned with them from the scriptures in verse 2, explaining and proving that Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. And then when we get to Athens, you're going to see a similar quote in verse 31, where it says, for he has said a day when he would judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof. Who? God has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead. Well, you're like, that's quite a statement. Because Paul is saying God is better than all your gods.

In fact, your gods are worthless. You know, images made. by gold or stone or built he doesn't live in building and he's given proof this by raising his son from the dead so really all of our faith is attached to that that's why I said all our apologetics need to revolve around the declaration that Jesus is the son of God and he died was bearing rape they were making headway as soon as it was night the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea on arrival there that went to the Jewish synagogue now the Bereans were a more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received a message with

great eagerness, and they were doing something that they all should have been, and examined the scriptures every day, check us now out, to see if what Paul said was true. Yeah, they were going back saying it was about Jesus. Yep. So my illustration, though, is, so I looked up to get back to my point about if they, if scientists were going to try to prove that someone was raised from the dead. Well, what would they do? Let's just say they go to a parish and start digging up graves.

Well, after a while, they're going to say, we've concluded that people are not coming back from the dead. They're here. And so then we would counter and say, yeah, but there was one. It happened. A singular event where there was a man claiming to be God, came, back from the dead. And there's a lot of evidence about that. So, so then you get in this argument about how do you prove a singular event? And the reason I'm bringing on this up is I looked, looked up, just did a search on the internet. I was like, what are events that happen only once?

And it was fascinating. The, the first thing up, they had 11 things that happened only once. And I'm just going to choose one of them, which in 1980, there was a declaration that smallpox had ended. They had eradicated due to science and execution of said science. It is the only infectious disease that has ever been eradicated. And do you know how many infectious diseases there are? thousands. So somebody like me, when I read that, I thought, well, are you sure about that? And look, all of a sudden now, I'm on the other side of the argument because all the things they read, this was a noble and profound occurrence in human history. We eradicated a disease and it's been almost 50 years and there's never been another case.

And I thought, now how come you're hanging your hat on that? Because is that provable now? Well, we're like, well, yeah, nobody's had smallpox. But doubt creates in my mind because it's only one. That only happened one time. And then I find myself saying, well, what I believe happened once, Jesus coming back from the dead, is way better. Because if that's true,

all of the infectious diseases are no longer umbrainer you know yeah i think i think it's the question though if you ask the question how can we prove the the resurrection of jesus scientifically if if science is the the study and the structure of how the and the behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experimentation and testing then yeah then it's then you You're not going to, you can't arrive at a supernatural conclusion if your framework is to examine the natural world. But the question then becomes not, is it scientific? Or can you discover it scientifically?

The question is, is it possible? And that is, and that is a fair question. And it is possible. And now we're on this. That's what I was making the point about the reasoning and all. I mean, you know, you can't, it's only going to take you far as far down the rabbit hole. I mean, you start looking around why am I here, which is a common question that every human will ponder at some point in their life. Yeah, reason is not, I say it like this.

It's not that it's, reason is a tool, but you can't, you can't base everything on reason alone, but that doesn't mean, but God is not asking us to believe in the irrational or the incoherent. he's not and to the question that you got a text on if i got that question and somebody said you know what do you do when science contradicts scripture or vice versa my answer would be either your science is wrong or your interpretation of scripture is wrong but they're not going to contradict each other and ultimately ultimately when you're you may not be reasoned to the right thing you still have to trust god all right we're out of time we'll pick this up uh next time I'm on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazTV at blaztv.com slash unashamed.