Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 892 | Willie Roasts Jase & Phil for Being Interrupters & the Secret to Sharing the Gospel

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

Willie hones his roasting skills on Zach, Jase, and Phil for slights and screwups dating back decades. Al escapes unscathed, and the guys nostalgically compare their childhood experience gathering mayhaws with Willie’s grandchildren's experience. The guys discuss Willie’s newest book “Gospeler” and how to share the Gospel no matter your education, background, or knowledge of biblical texts. Check out "Gospeler" at http://www.gospeler-book.com. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. We have Willie in the house. What's up, guys? Welcome back, Will. Nice to be here. It's always good to. Thank you. No, it's my third time. First time he was only never got a word in that. I finally got asked a question at minute 52. So you're in a minute. Which I was wondering why I drove. Why did I drive all the way down? down here to get not ask a question. I felt like I was duck hunting with Jason Phil where you just come and sit and you're not expected to do anything.

Don't shoot. Don't look at anything. Don't enjoy. Get behind all the brush. Don't do anything. Yeah, it's like, shut up. Do it down. Be quiet.

Be quiet. Don't move. Don't move. So the second time I felt, well, then I adjusted and then I felt like an auctioneer trying to get in everything I wanted to say. It was like the last time I was ever going to speak in my life. That's right. We have interrupting tendencies on this podcast.

Well, for the viewer, we agreed to interrupt. And they know us now. At first, everybody thought we were just being rude. Then they realized, no, that's how they do. Or maybe a little of both. There's a certain amount of rudeness to it. So before we started rolling, we were talking about, Zach hiring you at some point, Willie.

You got to tell that story to our audience because, you know, Zach goes way back. Zach claims Willie on this podcast several times that he was abused by the two of y'all. Victimhood, yeah. That's a lot of people today. He's caught up in that. He didn't enjoy Christmas. Somehow he's a victim. Look at him.

He really looks like he's being victim. On the record, I didn't. He's doing all right, okay? But I'm saying you can't hold on the things teenage. Well, it's kind of cathartic, I think, for Zach, because he was, like, laying out all of his childhood trauma. I didn't know. I thought they were just coming over for a visit. I didn't know.

He's soft, you know. I don't like where this is going. Willie and Jay's together against me on a podcast that the whole world's going to listen to. Here's the day. We try to make people into men, especially young boys in the men. He was resisting, resisting. Well, I was two years. And you've got a pillow and my man's blithe with a brick inside of it.

We were the big brothers you should have had. I actually had the same thought as Willie. I thought, we didn't do real well with sensitive young teenagers. That's what we're trying to toughen him up a little bit. Well, I want that teenager. We're better, though, now with sensitive adults like he's. So Zach was, he was doing pharma, he was big farmer. Oh, yeah.

He was making some money. He was on our golf court. had him a big house over there, young executive type, and take it from there. Well, so he was well on his way. And so he built this house where he had the construction garbage where he didn't want to pay, you know, to pay them. So even when he was back then, he was too cheap. Oh, it's just tight. Yeah.

So he said, no, no, I'll pay my cousin. He's got a truck and a trailer because he was, you know, he's a man, you know. Because it was the trailer. I was laughter. You had a little car. And he said, let me think of it. men I know. Yeah, I don't know one with a truck and a trailer and he can like back it up and stuff. Oh, come on. So he came over, paid me cash and I'm back there cleaning his yard. And so he comes

This was back when you ran camp. Yeah, I was running camp doing various other jobs. And so he comes out there to pay me and he pulls out like a file folder, you know, and he says, hang on, let me find the right. And he pulls out an envelope and it's got like, you know, yard work on it. And so he pays me And he starts explaining that he's on the Dave Ramsey program. And I was like, oh, that's nice. And he's like, oh, I'm telling you, you know, in three years I'm going to be this. And four years I'm going to be this. And he's telling all that to me.

He said, you need to get on this program. I said, I'm done all right. And he said, I'm telling you, get on the program. I said, Zach, I'm good. I don't have envelope, you know, like seems kind of complicated. And he said, I tell you what, you do what you do. I do. We'll see who ends up on top.

I said, okay. Okay. And I've never brought it up since until now. Now that your buddy's with Dave Ram's. I get a text. I get a text probably at least once a month. Every time he's with Dave Ramsey, I get a text. And it's like, hey, I'm here with Dave, Zach.

And doing what I did. Yeah. You did your thing and I did mine. I was just, remember the time you said that? Although I will say that's not exactly how it went down, Willie. You make yourself to be this humble guy that you were. chastising me for being on the budget. And that's why I responded the way I did.

It wasn't because you were over there. I said, no, I just little me, Willie. You were making fun of me. I was the yard guy. You were the landowner. What do you mean? Yeah, but you, yeah, you could know. I was out there getting paid by the hour, you know?

That's true. You were. And I, and that does, don't give me this now. Yeah. Yeah, but you, but you were making fun of me. When I pulled out the envelopes, you went full bore, Willie on me and and I just had to defend myself. Now granted, I probably shouldn't have said what I said. As Jay said on the last podcast, you lost. That's as close as we get to an apology around.

We were young. We were young. That's right. Hey, we've done all right. So Willie, so we've been talking about Mayaw's dad's and just got through Mayha season. So he brought some on here. And we talked about your Mayhaal orchard. Mm-hmm. That's this next to your pond. It's in the book. Yeah, yeah. The Mayhaal Orchard is actually. In the book.

And did you talk about them not producing? Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm dogging my Mayhaw's in the book. This is pre what just happened. Because now they produced. Right. Because you figured out the cedar rust was the use.

You know how many people has asked me through the years? They said, what are those trees over there? I was like, well, my brother's a businessman, but he's not a tree grower, because he has mayhaw trees that produce no mayhaws. Yeah. It's like a living spiritual illustration of something. Right. There's no fruit on the tree.

Well, it was tragic. You know, I transplanted all these trees. And I knew they produced because the year before they had brought me jelly they had made from these mayhaw. So I knew. I was like, they've got everything. Something is happening. And then an old timer told me, he said, let me tell you. If you can see a cedar tree, a mayha won't produce a...

The tree won't produce the fruit. And I thought, well... And you believe that? I can see a lot of cedar trees. Like, because your... Your father-in-law had a Christmas tree from the highway at one time, right? I have to have the cedars, can't cut them down. And I'm like, well...

That would have been hard for me to believe. That's what he said. And then this year, stone sprayed for cedar rust and all the berries popped out. You didn't have to cut down the cedar trees. That was it. The old timer was right. Yeah. Which he didn't know there was a spray, I presume.

He thought just cut every cedar you can see in sight, you know, which I was like, that's a lot of cedar. That would have been an episode. If you're at your next door neighbor's house with a chainsaw cutting down a tree and it's like, I'm trying to get my mayhaws to grow. Oh, yeah. I need to cut your trees. Zero privacy, but all the maha jelly was a.

Because you can't even see from the road. You can't even see your property because of those. huge cedar trees. Those giant, yeah. Zach, that's what you need. Zach's been trying to build him a border wall up there that you need to. That's a unity wall. Yeah, he's backed off because I rebuked him about four commercials in a row.

A swamp plant thrives in backwater areas where you get water on it. Some years and some years you don't and some years that you dry. Other years you're picking them up with a net. You just shake the tree and it just whew. Well, and it's interesting, Dad, because Willie was saying before we came on that, you know, The ones you see in the swamp are always kind of gnarly and twisted. But you can get to them easier. But when you have yours all, like, they look like normal trees, but it's hard to get into it.

They're neighborhood may halls. They're not swampy mayhawls. They're neighborhood. They didn't have near the leakage on his. They have these huge thorns on them. I planted about as many as he has in just a tight area. You know, one's right here, one's right here. I mean, you could walk in between them.

I just spaced them out. Yep. Make your stuff a little swamp grow. So Willie, who is the king of the slum guillian, as dad calls it, always finds ways to make fusion out of meals or dishes, has done now the same thing with jelly. Tell you your little idea, which is breit. Well, Corey and a couple of the grandkids went and picked strawberries at a strawberry patch,

and then I was making that jelly thinking, what if we combine strawberries and may haul? Best of two worlds. So I did it, and we. came up with what we called straw hall i was trying to think of a name but i like straw have you tried the straw hall yet i have not they say it's fantastic it's good i haven't tried it yet i'll brought me two jars of may hall yesterday which i appreciate that i haven't tried that well i was thinking like uh we're putting out the videos for mayha jelly we're talking about

mayhaws but there's what less than one percent of every american even knows what it is or where to find It's pretty much just... So you're going to need something. Right, you're going to need something to make jelly out of, and so strawberries. It's a swamp, swamp fruit. Right. It goes into swamp where it's sometimes water. You'd sane them.

And the other times you pick them up a dry year, you pick them up off the ground. But some of mine go under water just about every year. The only other people that I've ever met that knew about my alves were from Arkansas and a little bit of East Texas. So it must just be in our region because you get away from here, nobody's ever heard of them. Further north than here, almost, I'd say 30 miles, 40 miles, and then it just too far up won't grow. But picking them up the other day, it was a flashback to when we were kids, the smell. Yeah. And I was like, ah, this is the smell.

You can smell them when I was picking them up. But growing up when we were kids, every time we ever picked them up, it was always in water. Right. Like, I don't remember picking them up off. dry land. We would go up to the back. I planted some a little higher ground after watching that. Yeah, but we would go, we were going places.

We were going all the way up to Marion, I mean, which is like an hour north. There's this thing called the. A lot of Mayhaw's up in there. Yeah, that's where you found them hunting, and that's where they were. So there's a little thing called the Internet that may or may not be true. But it says the region borders for Mayhawls are southwest Alabama, west to southern Arkansas and East Texas. That's it.

So it's a little bigger. Mississippi, Alabama. Okay. Well, it'd have to be. Yeah. Well, I was just, I figured all our Mississippi. Well, I remember we were kids, so Dad would take us up to Granny and Paul.

It was a whole family outing. Oh, yeah. We'd get in the truck. We'd drive all. It takes about an hour to get there and go back in where we're used to hunt. And then we would all climb the trees, remember. Mm-hmm. And they'd put sheets, bed sheets around the,

bottom. We was shaking. Of course, all the limbs and, of course, just, we were shredded. Oh, yeah. Oh, it was fun, though. Until you saw a cotton mouth. She saw us night. And then it was like, they got not fun. And they were always there. That's why now it's in the neighborhood. Yeah. Just past the front yard. So your grandkids got out and how were they? Were they like we were when we were kids? They liked. Oh, yeah. They enjoyed. Everybody had their little baskets. And yeah, it was a different. We were nice about, you know, like, everybody's got your baby. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't more the slave.

Get your butt up of that tree. I got a thorn in me. Keep going. I'm bleeding. It's all right. I'm bleeding. It was a little bit harsher when we were there, right? Well, I loved it, though.

Yeah, I did too. I'm glad we're bringing it back. It's a good tradition. So, Will, you've written a new book, which we want to talk about today. It's, I mean, it's so timely just because of where we are in our culture and everything else. I think it's really, really good. And it's interesting. because the name of it, when I first saw the name of it, I was like, is that a word?

That was my first thought. Yeah. And then I thought, because Willie is always the Scrabble King, and we used to play Scrabble. And this would have been a, use all your letters if you had one of the letters already on the board. And so I thought about that. How did you come up with that? Were you already thinking that? It's all Gospelor, by the way.

Gospelor. Is how the Internet says to say it. I was asking the other day, like I knew, like I'm some language expert. it's actually just because I hit the audio version and she says, Gospeller. So I was like, that's how you said. Okay, cool. Yeah, Corey said, had we used the two L's,

it would have made more sense that it was Goss Speller. And there is another version of the word, but I didn't know the word. I'd never heard the word either. So I'm writing the book about sharing your faith, and I had some other names. I was thinking about calling it American Evangelist because I had the American hunter,

American fisherman, American entrepreneur. So I thought, well, this would be cool. But those books were different. different where it went back and looked at like the history of that, which it would be a cool book as well. But I'm writing, and Corey comes in there and she says, Willie, I found this word. And I think it's really cool. And she said, gospeler. I'd never heard it.

I looked it up and it was someone who shares their faith. It is a person who zealously teaches or professes faith in the gospel. Yeah. That's a gospel. All I know for sure is, or a fact, it produces. people and they come to be saved. That's right. Produces fruit.

Cause of the gospel. Yeah. Which is. And they just keep coming. Just keep coming. Not a lot. But I mean, there'll be 50, 60. They'll think about it.

Up to 20, 25, baptize them at the same time. It's a movement. I never seen it before. But there's somebody standing there saying, I won't obey the gospel today. Right. I said, give him a round of applause. Then we preach what the gospel is.

Right. Start with, you know, when God became flesh, Jesus, died on a cross for the sins of the world, buried in a tomb, raised from the dead, got that written down all over now. It's written down in books like that. That's a great idea of what he just did right there. Well, today, I was in one of our little local diners having breakfast with the guy before I came down here. and I'm looking around the little restaurant and they got a little bookshelf over there

with some knickknacks and whatnot. At the top, I saw the gospel symbols on something. I thought, huh, in this restaurant. So I'll go over there and look and somebody had given them a kingdom impact award to this little diner that I was in. And it had the gospel symbols. And I didn't even recognize the group that did it.

So it's like the same once we... See more and more of that. Yeah, I mean, it just seems to be the idea of it out there a lot more than... You used a unique little design in there that I had never seen, like the sun. Yeah, I thought that was cool. Yeah, I thought that was cool. It had kind of the gospel in the circle, and then you had all these responses.

Yeah, where it shoots out. Where did you get that out? Well, that came from the whiteboard when we started doing the whiteboard. But the idea, too, Al, is not necessarily pastorial. So this is more like common. the one. Yeah. Common people. So this comes from, yeah, from like the, so I was doing this on a whiteboard, kind of the genesis of the book, and we'll talk about the first chapter in Phil, which is probably the major genesis of the book. But the idea of the book was during COVID.

I mean, all the stories, you know, we've been preaching the gospel, our whole lives, and a lot of those stories are in there. But during COVID, I wasn't traveling, wasn't speaking. And so I started teaching this little class on sharing your faith at a local church. And so I would have a whiteboard. Mostly I was teaching people how to do it, but also there would be people come in who would actually. So I had this whiteboard, and I would draw a line, and that would be the line of faith. And that's in there as well, Galatians 5, 19, kind of that line, that clear line and everything on top. Life to death, light to dark. There you got. Yeah. All those kind of what we read in the Bible is like this or this. And so that's what we're trying to figure out.

with the story, gathering their story. But then the cross would be in the middle. So when you come through the cross, so the bad stuff was on the bottom of the whiteboard. The good stuff's on the top. So like the acts of the sinful nature, a lot of times the story they're telling me, a lot of it was bad, you know, a lot of it was just, you know, I was on drugs. And then this happened, this happened. So I'm just noting that down.

And then as we get to the cross, and then I just started, when we get to the response of the gospel, I started just putting lines up. And that's hard. They came up with that because they saw me doing, so you'd have a line of like repentance, a line of baptism, a lot of, you know. Confession. Yeah, but it looks like the sun.

Yeah. But it all, and when you step back, Jason was cool about it. Like, when I got through with the whiteboard, it was so messy because I would be like, just putting everything on there.

But the main prominent thing you could see, even from like the back of the room, was the cross. Yeah. You could see the cross, because I kept circling the cross. I'd go back when we'd hit 1st, Quintons 15,

and go back to the cross, back to the, you know, that death, burn, resurrection, the new life, and it all came through there. And so it was kind of... You're quoting there's 1st Corinthians 15, 1 through 7, which of course is a first... Most of the letters, the Apostle Paul, here's how far he goes. I mean, it's like you got Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. As soon as Matthew gets done with his story, mainly the gospel, the opening line in Mark's version of the gospel, It's the beginning of the gospel about Christ Jesus, Jesus Christ's Christ, Son of God.

And just all the way down, all the way down. You get Romans set apart, called to be Paul and apostles, called to be apart set apart from the gospel of God, the gospel he promised beforehand, and the resurrection, grace and peace to you, preach. At whom I serve my whole heart with preaching the gospel, I'm obligated both the Greeks and non-greens That's why I'm so eager to preach the gospel

I'm not ashamed of the gospel It's the power of God for salvation everyone who believe If we're in the gospel, A righteousness I mean everything is built around The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Everything. So what I was trying to, so what I was trying to come up with

It's make an argument that I think believers for sure will see Paul like that. They maybe see you like that. You're a pastor. Maybe even some of us, they're like, well, some people kind of have that gift. But a lot of people just disqualify themselves from really telling others about the gospel. And there's a lot of reasons why. And so I would hear these, when I was doing that class, I would hear like, I don't know the Bible.

Like, Phil knows the Bible. I don't know it like that. My past is, I don't know. I'm the last person. need to be telling anybody about anything. I'm shy. It's not my gift. And so we disqualify ourselves. So I tried to make the argument in the end of Matthew, where he gives the Great Commission, and he says three things. He says, make disciples, baptize people, and teach people. Well, as a believer, I thought, am I anywhere near those three? Like, if you're living your life

and you're nowhere near the three things that he said, I would question, are you on the right mission? Because what I find is a lot of people who are, they're trying to live their lives on this mission. I try to go to church, try to be a good person. It's just, it's not the right mission. Like Jesus would have said, here's the mission. This was the mission.

Well, then you think was that just for those people or is that for everybody? Now, we're thinking, well, those are super duper. I would say, be careful if you think that. Because right before he said that, it said they gathered and some doubted. And then later on in Acts, they're called by their people that knew them. They were regular, unschooled people. Ordinary men. Ordinary men.

So these are ordinary people who got that commission. And then as we start, then when you get into the book of Acts, Acts chapter one, he said, you're going to get the spirit, you'll have power. You will be my witnesses, which that meant to open your mouth. To your point, I've not heard. I'm searching. they've got a long string on the television. You can pick up all kinds of preachers.

I'm still waiting on someone to say the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Crickets. I've heard it. I've heard it. I watch a lot of preaching now on TV. How many time did you hear that because? Well, I hear it.

Yeah, I mean, I hear it said. I mean, not in every sermon, but I hear, I for sure hear it. But I think, Willie, one point is in our Western culture, fast forward 2,000 years ago, a lot of people, maybe not consciously, but subconsciously think, well, that's what we're paying a preacher to do. Exactly. So that's the problem is, in fact, I've been preaching this all year, and I've said that exact thing. And actually, at a church in Alabama, I pointed, and I said, that's what we're paying this guy to do, right? And I write in the book, we're hoping somebody does it. Like, we know it needs to be done.

Or you put it in a category. There's so much here as you turn the pages. You run into it. I just read it. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. But they put it to. 11 times on the first page in Romans. Yeah.

Well, they would say, though, that's Paul. You know, that's what they're going to say. Well, that's Paul, but I'm not. Well, that's why, yeah, that's why I'm shaping this, saying this is what do you tell. This is the last thing. said is pretty much, I mean, and he goes back to Peter and he makes sure, hey, Peter, you got a job to do, you know, but it's, it's all about, I think, part of the problem is we, when people come in, they're never told that that's part of the deal. They're never told like,

hey, now we got to go after other people. Now that, I don't hear often. Like, when people are raising their hands and I think that comes from what we've been studying on as far as we're kind of focused. And I mean we, as in a Western modern church, on what we're saved from and not what we're saved to do. Right. So it's like, well, I'm in and I hope I make it. You're like, well, what about these other people? You know, that's being called to be Jesus on the earth and be ambassadors.

There's life in Christ. There's life in him. I was thinking about Peter. You just mentioned him, Willie. as y'all were talking, I was thinking of this first, that Peter wrote, but you, not the paid clergy, but he is too, but with you, you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

So we are- That's the switch over right there. That's it. We're the priest. We've outsourced this to professed this to professes. professional clergy, but the Great Commission, to your point, I mean, it's not just for the professional clergy who are paid. Like, if you are a member of Christ's body, you are actually a priest who is meant to proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. That's the witness that will you were talking about.

Here's the problem that I, here's what happens as that. Because, and all this is true, this is what I found when I was teaching the class. I was talking to people. they don't know how to do it. Yeah. They don't understand that they, they say, okay, great. Now what do I, like, how do I do this? What, which is ergo I wrote the book.

I mean, it's like, it's a way to say, hey, here's a way. Here's something to get your mind thinking. The first thing we have to change is that there has to be a desire. There has to be, you have to care about people. Yeah. Which is probably the biggest problem we have across the world is a lack of actually caring for people. John chapter four, when I talk about the story, the woman at the well, that's the master class on Jesus caring for someone. He shouldn't have been talking to.

How do we know that? Because when the disciples came back, they were like, what in the world are you doing? Like, you're talking to this woman. He just, he showed her a lot before he ever opened his mouth. He showed her that he cared about her just to even ask about her. So we have to care about people. So once we can get the church, you know, think about in a building. So if I have a building of people, if I have a thousand people sitting in chairs and I have one guy that's up talking, if I wanted to get the word out, let's say I have a new donut shop in town and I want everybody to know about the donut shop.

Do you want the one guy telling everybody or do you want the thousand going out and tell? I'll take the thousand every day. And so this book is really for the church to say, no matter where you're at what church group you're part of, maybe you're at a dead little town. There's not a lot of great even churches. You can take this. You can start sharing. You can be empowered. I got seven passages that typically I, you know, refer to.

Now we take out this. I don't know the whole Bible, you know. I got seven that I can go to. We start there and we start teaching people how to actually do that and how to do that and share their faith with other people. All those in Romans 12 gives a great rendition of what you just said. Just as each of us has one body with many members. and these members do not all have the same function.

So in Christ, we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man's gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it's serving, let him serve. If it's teaching, let him teach. if it's encouraging let him encourage if it's contributing to the needs of others let him give generously or somebody you know just got a little better out job in anybody if it's leadership let him govern

diligently he covers and if it's showing mercy let him do that cheerfully love must be sincere but within that right there is the framework not everybody is appointed as a as a as a preacher, but he is. We all have the same function. So we all need to wrap it all the gospel to where people can see it for what it is and then move on it. Well, I think we- Some will be fantastic on it. Some will be maybe just a little bit.

Some may be visiting hospital, but they get the good news out, whatever they're appointed to do. Yeah, and we're not, well, you're not saying, and we're not saying that other things we do, for kingdom work is not helpful and meaningful. That's right. But this is how people are saved. This is what gets them into. Even that. I mean, I thought, baby,

I helped inspire some of this because I taught Willie's class one week, and Willie wasn't there. And so what I did my misunderstanding, I was kind of making fun of the idea that we're at a point in our church history. I was kind of doing it as a joke. but of saying that we have to get together. The joke didn't land with someone did. Yeah, we have to get together.

Nobody was laughing. No, they wasn't like. Remember, James, you're accidentally funny. Oh, I know. And so my point was, my point was that you should be so excited about what you have in Jesus, that you have conversations with people, which I've shared a million times on this podcast and airports and all about. And it was a lot like Willie's book. they were just different conversations that I had where, I mean, just I think last week I told about

the guy who asked me to open the window on the plane, and he's like, well, I'm scared of flying. Well, I took that, in that moment, I'm scared of flying. You know what my thought was? I thought, he needs to know about the resurrection of Jesus. So I told him about having a emergency landing. I just, I didn't, I didn't like, it was kind of. of a lot of like your stories in the book. It was a subtle way of like, well, I'll tell him my story. I was like, you know, I was too. I was scared of flying. I said, until I had an emergency

landing and survived. I said, then I realized my faith in Jesus and the resurrection was real. I said, I've never been scared of flying since. And he said, well, I believe in Jesus. I said, well, you'll have to work that out because I don't know what to say. So look, I I gave the guy my email. Well, he, after I shared that story on the podcast, he sent me a letter back and said, you know, I got to thinking the next time I prayed, I believe in the resurrection of Jesus.

Now, granted, this guy was already in Jesus, but it's the same philosophy. Something out of the world came up in a moment. Would you open the window, which I thought was weird? And he said, oh, I'm scared of flying. So that's why I'm asking you to do that. So that's what I was talking about in the class. But one of the guys that worked for Willie,

well, he went back and told Willie, he's like, well, he's making fun of the class. That we have to have an organized. Because my point was evangelism in churches is in a category, which is one reason I think we don't go out and have conversations about Jesus, because they're like, well, that, we'll have evangelism time. And so I broke down that word. I was like, where did evangelism come from?

It's not in the Bible. It comes from the word evangelist. But it is the Greek word for sharing Jesus. But I was like, I think what's happened is we tend to think that evangelism only happens through church-paid evangelist. It's like, here's evangelism time. Let's go do that. But in my life, there's conversations that happen about Jesus every day, whether you're in Walmart

or, you know, Dollar General. I mean, if something comes up and you're looking for the opportunity, like you said, you care about people and you care about Jesus and care about your purpose, you can have a conversation in the moment. Do you think about how much you limit yourself, which was your point? In other words, if you're funneling it down to one or two or three or four church staff people, well, no wonder churches don't grow. I mean, because instead of having the whole force of all of our people.

He's a France fred road now that I tell him. the duck hole that I talked to you on the plane. Clay. Yeah, Clay. He said, I've just got out of, you're talking to the wrong person if you're going to tell me about Jesus. Yeah, it's a great story. Yeah, I just got out of, you know.

Seminary. Yeah, seminary. I said, well, good night here. You become familiar with when I preach the gospel to him for 10 years went by or 12. He said, I didn't get that in Preach the School. Somehow I missed it. Yeah. Well, that can happen.

You've heard him talk about it. Yeah. The other thing, Jay's, is actually, is what we think of as a church setting. I'll just refer to it as that. Is that the best place for evangelism anyway? I don't think it is. Well, that was part of my point. This is turning darkness into one conversation at a time.

That's probably the worst place to have a conversation as anywhere. You're sitting, you're listening. One guy's talking generally, and then you leave. And you're looking at the back of somebody's head. So it's not a good place. even for conversations to actually happen. And then you've got this big corporate thing where they're trying to, you know, what I see is they're throwing it in at the end, a quick version of the gospel.

I mean, like a quick, quick thing. And then you have some sort of conversion. I was like, that's not the, I just don't think that's the best way. So as I read through the Book of Acts, I started looking at what time a day and what time a week, when were these things happening? Oh, it was midnight. Mid-morning. We just did the jailer.

You have a big section. The jailer in the middle of the night. The Ethiopians is in a chariot. So most of, I think when the conversations start happening, most will happen outside of that Sunday morning, you know, generally situation. Most will happen there. That's when I think the real revival can happen is when it's out there. People that are talking to people.

And so not that what happens on a Sunday morning is not, it's not bad. It's just like you shove it all into one hour. It's like, we got to worship. We got to do this. We got to do this. We got to take care of the kids. Oh, yeah, we've got to preach the gospel. You know.

You got to tell about a mission work. I was convinced that a lot of people walking out of these services, they didn't have a clue what exactly they just signed up for. And I don't know that I've ever heard said now we're going after other people, which incidentally, Zach, is where that's the only thing I'm seeing that Jesus told Peter to do. That was the whole deal. Hey, I'm going to teach you how to fish for other people. Okay, let's go. Well, that's why Paul wrote to the Corinthians, you'll be my ambassadors.

You know, we're, we have God's treasure in jars of clay, I mean, as though he's making his appeal through us. But even when he wrote to the Philippians, I wanted to read this, when he says in verse chapter 1 in verse 27, he said, I will know that you stand firm in one spirit contending as one man for the faith of the gospel without being frightened in any way by those who oppose you.

And so you see this idea of us all being together contending for the gospel without being frightened. And I think that's a big reason why people don't want to do it. It's fear in some form. Fear I don't know what to say. I've made too many mistakes. they may get mad or angry, which has happened to all of us, you know.

And so I just think I'm glad you brought, you know, brought it in a clever way because I love the name, because that is what we are. We're gospelers. And the name of it just, like, that was a popular name that was used all the time through the 1600s, 1700s. Like, people were known that.

You brought up, the word got lost. the word got lost. Well, when I looked it up. There was even, I saw a law written. It was like, you know, let no one stop a priest or a known gospeler from preaching the word. No, it's like, it's in a law. This was a common word. And now it's a dinosaur, which I thought, well, people sharing their faith, like known for sharing the gospel.

Has that left, too? And I think in a lot of ways it has. We just don't see that, you know, church people doing that. You know, we look for movements or we look for certain churches or to do that. And I think it's so important, Jay's. And I think there is, I think, when, you know, they may have an evangelism day. But there's nothing wrong with that. No, it's fine.

Lee Stroh when I talked about that, he's like, there's very rare that any group of organized religion has any kind of specific ministry just for this. Yeah. Like just for, you know, how is it that you talk to people? How is it that you sit down? Two thousand years ago, this is all you had. That was it. And some of it, I think the evil ones sold in our culture, in Western culture, for sure, sold this lie that really you shouldn't talk about that outside of the confines of a charge.

In other words, that shouldn't be, that's not public. Keep it to yourself. Yeah, keep it to yourself. Yeah, it's a private matter. I mean, even like I had this conversation with someone today, we use a term about Jesus being our personal Lord and Savior. I'm afraid that gets translated in our mind says he's a private Lord and Savior. But it's like,

like that's personal. Yeah, yeah, it's like it sticks in here and I don't take that out. But again, I think you said something very profound at the beginning that there is a difference, by the way, between proselytizing people and then sharing,

being brought out of darkness with people. And you said it at the differences at the beginning, do we care about people? Do we really have a genuine love for our common man? And one of the dangers of probably church culture in the last 30 years is that it has turned into somewhat of something you go to and consume something and leave, but it's all focused around that building. But the real conversations where people are vulnerable are not in that experience.

Like you said, they're in around a coffee table at somebody's house. they're on a job site. They're, you know, like when I hired you and you're out there throwing trash and, I mean, it's those conversations that you're having everyday stuff. That's where people are going to open up and are vulnerable. So are we, do we even have the mindset and the eyes to even be looking? I don't think we do culturally anymore. So I think this book is extremely timely.

We're not just going to the church, but also when you go there, a lot of times, what I'm saying is the messaging is self-focused as well. Let me tell you something to help you get through your day, get through your week. And man, we got a lot of people running around who the focus is inside. I need to do better. I need to read my Bible. I need to do that. I need to.

Here's my question. Why are we reading the Bible? Yeah. But just just for your own personal. There's a lot of Christians I know. They're just sitting there. They know it all. They've got it all right here.

It be like a fantastic chef or cook who knows every recipe who has all that. Never cook. And never cooks a meal. they're like, no, I got it all in here. I read the cookbook every day. I just read and study and I watch YouTube videos and all that. But when do you actually go out there and actually... Because that's for others.

When I cook meals... And cook the meal and share it. It's for other. It was like the other day, we were at Okalusa restaurant here, and the chef comes out, and they were taking a picture of his new burger of the month. And this was like 2 o'clock. So I know I was in the restaurant, so he's taking a picture of it. And it looks so good.

The steam's coming up. And Lisa and I are looking, and we just ordered our meal. He said, well, I just cooked this for a picture. Y'all hungry, y'all hadn't eaten yet, have you? And he said, here, try this burger. You're going to love it. And, I mean, like, he just gave it to us, you know, and he just couldn't have out. Now, there's a chef.

Yeah. Who's proud of what he has? Willie, last time I was in town, I was going to, I said, I'll eat dinner tonight, Willie. And I was arriving late at about 7.30. And so he texted me, probably about six. I said, what time y'all getting there? I said, 7.30. He said, I'm doing cassidias.

Do you want steak or chicken? And I immediately responded steak. And he said, what does Fred want? I said, Fred, what do you want? And he said, chicken. I said, no, you don't want chicken. This ain't the kind of steak fajitas you get at the Mexican restaurant. This steak will not be shriveled up.

I got, I didn't have to ask because I knew. I said, he's got a bowl of filet mignon or ribbi or stuff. Trust me, you want the steak. I rolled my eyes when you did that because you shamed your kid. And I'm thinking, I was going to, I was at the store when I was down. And I thought, just let the kid eat it. And like it's way cheaper. Now I'm going to drop $30 on this kid.

You did your thing. He's going to eat something. That's what we do. Like where I ended up, Zach, I make those kind of decisions to make a lay mignon a casidia. So the thing you talked about value of people is so strong, well, because you mentioned earlier on the woman at the well. And Jesus, she would have been seen, and she was seen from the disciples, as a person

who brought no value to what they were doing. But Jesus, knowing how we all are and know we all have value. So this woman who he talks to who has this island experience, immediately goes into the village and tells everybody she knows about this man she just met. And the whole village comes out. And then later on, Peter and some of those same guys go back into Samaria after Jesus has gone. So you think about this woman who seemingly had no value once she was introduced to Jesus, got an entire town who probably became the early church in Samaria.

The early church there, she was one of the first Gospelers. And I love this part, Al, because a big part of this is storyteller, which rhymes with Gossiper. So all my chapter titles run with gospel. Those were pretty clever. So storyteller, Jesus gets into her story, which is what I'm encouraging people to. Everyone has a story. And so Jesus starts, gets into her story. He's explaining spiritual things that she doesn't really understand.

So be prepared for that. Be prepared that people don't know this whole language we use in church and they walk into our groups. And we're hoping. They don't know proselytizing. Oh, they don't know. Which I had to look up while. Or propitiation. They don't know these times.

And he's talking about living water. He says, hey, go get your husband. She gives him part of the story, but not the whole story, right? Which makes sense because she just met him. Right. But the question is, why did Jesus keep pressing in? on that story because I think he knew she was going to have to deal with her past or she was never going to go tell the whole village. So when she goes to the village, she goes, you got to talk

to this guy. He told me everything I've ever done. Here's what's crazy about that. To me, that would be a negative. Right. That would be a negative like, don't go talk to him. He knows everything you've ever done. But it was a positive. It was a positive, which is what got her attention. That got her attention. He got Peter's a deal. He got Peter's a judge. He got Peter's attention. And when you're talking about the conversation, I think this will be the hard part for people. It's not just listening to people and having a conversation. It's looking for change. Now, that's what's going to separate you from being a gospel or just listening to someone's problems over and over, which I think is sad if you don't offer him any hope. When Jesus runs into Zichias, who was a very

undesirable dude that nobody... Another guy who seemingly had no value. Had no value. Nobody wanted to hang out with him. Jesus invites himself to his house and he goes. and what does he say. This is why I came. Jesus went there looking for change. He didn't go there just to hang out and chit-chat. Change happened when he heard the change. He said, I came to seek and save what was lost.

Which Jesus gives us a clue there on the whole mission he had for coming here through that story. And so I think those stories are great. The woman at the well, then also the woman called an adultery. Jesus says what? He shows her he cares. He gets down with her. Now he's taking up for this woman and saying, I'm here. So this is where you start caring about people. This is where you jump in. And then I think

the last thing we were talking about jelly and hunting and all these things that we like to do and know a lot about, experience is so crucial. The more you do something, like when I made the jelly, once I did it, I was like, I got it. And the more I kept doing it, the more comfortable I become in there. So you were talking about me in the kitchen. So if I'm in the kitchen and cooking, we can have the same conversation while I'm cooking. Yeah. Now, if you try that with Corey, not going to happen. Like, she's staring at the back of a box and just smokes pouring.

She's fighting. Everything's fighting. Like, she's fighting the stove. It's too high burning. She's yelling. She's getting, you cannot even, you can't, she can't say two words. But as I'm cooking, I can have a conversation. Why?

Because I'm such a better cooker because I'm smart. No, it's because I've done it a lot of times. And you love to do it. And when something goes wrong, I'm like, that's, okay. When I look and I don't have this, I'm like, oh, that's okay. And so the more you have these conversations of people, the more you're like, ah, yeah, this has come up before. Because they don't always start the same way. I would say they rarely. Well, like, somebody may come up to you and say, Willie, I need to get baptized.

Well, we're starting way later in the car. We haven't talked about the gospel. We haven't talked about your life, you know. Exactly. And so some people come up and they've, they're steeped in sin, and they're ready to repent. They're like, I just got a DW. Yeah. My wife kicked me out. Help me. You know, well, that's a layout there. I'm like, all right, you'll be, you'll be expecting to repent to change. But some people I'm sitting there talking with, they have no desire.

They're like, hey, I've got everything I want in life. Life is going to great. Those are going to be trickier. Those are going to be hard. Somebody may come and say, I have no belief in God. And this is not just for the random stranger, too. This book is not for rando you meet at the mall or the grocery store. You can start with your kids.

You can start with your family. you know, and I start the whole thing with Phil and Kay's story, because that's what struck me was like when the blind came out and like, you think about this couple's life, like 50 years ago, if Phil does not obey the gospel, that marriage does not stay together, they split up, we live completely different lives, we are not sitting here right now talking about this. It wouldn't be gospel. None of that happens. That's the impact of what the gospel can have. When you do what Bill Smith does, when you drive up to a bar, walk into this adversarial situation, plant that seed, when you do that with someone, you have no idea the generational change that could happen potentially with them, with their children, with their grandchildren, with their jobs, with their marriage, all of it. Like, I can trace our gospel genealogy back to a couple in South Arkansas with three little boys who had no money, no fame, no anything, and look forward 50 years. and have hundreds of millions of people all over the globe impacted in some way by the gospel. And that all started with one conversation.

That's amazing. And one sister, Zach's mom, who had a passion for saying this guy could do something. I thought about Jesus had that nugget that he gave this woman who they wouldn't have given the time of day to. He told her the entire Jewish system was going to be changed indifferent when he told her about the mountain. You won't worship any here. Neither will we worship on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, the, on the, on the, the, on the mount, you know, down in Jerusalem. I mean, he gave her the glimpse of the entire change for the world of all people.

And yet she was there. And what he says is that basically, I mean, he doesn't say it like this, but you'll be the temple. You'll be the mountain. Like God would live in you. He'll be a spring in you welling up to eternal life. I just say one more thing. I know we're about to cut out. But like I was thinking about Mark four passage when the kingdom of God is as if a man

scattered seed on the ground, he sleeps and rises. and rises night and day, and the seed sprouts and grows, he knows not how. And I think about like this, sometimes I think what hinders us from sharing the gospel with people is that we want to take responsibility for the outcomes, but we can't. And like no one would have, like my mom, for example, she's not even here to witness kind of even what I'm doing with this podcast. She never saw the blind, I mean, which is kind of crazy. She never even got to see the fullness of, not even the fullness.

We're not going to see the fullness. I love it that you mentioned that, though, because the ripples of just a simple decision to engage will go far beyond your ability to even see those ripples. You won't even see the ripples that happen for eternity because of, you know, being obedient to Christ in this way. That's really good. The book is called Gospeller. Definitely look it up, get you a copy. The stories in it are fantastic. Of course, ultimately, it's the story of Jesus.

And then I thought this was very helpful as well. This is like a little companion. That's kind of why I started. I wanted to give somebody something. And I'd looked at several in there. I always said stuff in there. I was like, I wanted that. So we started with this.

I was like, I just need to write something that I can give some. I study the Bible someone. Maybe they make a decision. Maybe they don't. Stick some in their hand on here. Keep studying. It's called sharing Jesus with confidence. We'll put it in the show notes.

And you guys can go order it directly from that link. It's really. And I know a lot of people ask about resources to be able to share your faith and this is fantastic. So thanks, Will, thanks for coming on. I know the best going to be here. Thank you. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else,

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