Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 894 | Jase’s Famous Line Gets Stolen by Arnold Schwarzenegger & Is U2 Religious? | Ep 894

Episode Date: May 27, 2024

Jase’s famous line was “stolen” by Arnold and General MacArthur, though it’s obvious that it originated with Jesus. Jase gets sucked into a kids’ movie thanks to the U2 soundtrack, and Phil���s early duck-call business makes the perfect illustration for a debate about salvation. The guys encourage self-examination in everyone to see whether Jesus lives in their hearts, and Zach describes the “empty hands of faith.” In this episode: Acts 19; Acts 18:20; Acts 10:44; 2 Corinthians 13:2 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to unashamed. We are, we're in our normal setting here on a Monday doing our podcast, but we're, the audience, you guys won't really realize this because we've been kind of working ahead doing some extra podcast. So we can take a little time off, which is coming. So that's... They probably noticed, because when we made a reference to something in real life, they said, well, that's... happened two weeks ago. Where there would be a couple of weeks to span out of your. So I just want to give you some breaking news, Al. There is a, hang on.

All right. See if you can get this button right. I prefer this. There is a time delay in the podcast. It's not live. Right. So what's going to happen now is we're going to take a couple weeks off, but you will never notice. That's right.

Because when you hear this. After today, when you come back, to you, it would have felt like it was just two days ago. There's actually one. We normally don't do this, but you've got, you guys are headed in for surgery. Well, we got, we have two or three things. We've got a Lisa and I are going to the great northeast. We have two states that are left on our 50 states in the United States of America that we have not set foot on. And they are New Hampshire and Maine.

So Lord willing, we'll be there tonight and get those last two states in. So we have an appearance up there. And we also are taking a little trip with the family. And then we have a family vacation. And then Lisa has surgery. So, yeah, we got a lot of stuff going on them. Yeah. So, you know, Lisa's going to have surgery.

That was one of the weeks. You know, we were getting off. Skeptically, I thought, well, it took a, you know, a trash. tragedy to after four years to get a week off. Well, that's because Zach is a slave driver. That's, you know. Well, we're doing a good work for the Lord, guys. We are.

We are. No, we are. So we'll be back. But I said that because somewhere in between realizing that we were going to have a couple weeks off, one of my good buddies whose wife is good friends with my wife. In fact, they're so good of friends that they went to Italy together last year on a trip. And so he was like, oh, you're getting a couple weeks off. Well, let's go somewhere.

I was like, fantastic, let's do it. So I told my wife, as she walked by, I said, hey, me and my buddy, we're like, I'm getting a week off. We ought to go on a trip. She said, I'm in. And I was waiting for, well, where are we going? But she just said, yeah, let's do it. She goes by your philosophy. It doesn't matter the destination.

It's the people. Well, that's what I was going to bring up. So where is the destination? He doesn't know. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Okay. And so I got to thinking.

What if it's Ravel? Yeah. So somewhere in between that conversation and me, we had the little one this weekend. and as he gets older, I had a certain set of songs, and we listened to a lot of worship songs, which by the way, when we're in the car on our way to meet with the church, we played two worship songs that this kid who's two and a half sang just as loud and with us. The only difference between me and him was he was actually on pitch.

And that came from my wife. Because I said, look, that boy is good. And she's like, the only difference in you and him is he is actually on the notes. Which means that he's more teachable than you. Wait, what? She's like, it's not your voice, babe. It's your ear. Which my ear has been stopped up for a while.

So I'm going to go fix that during this couple weeks. So somewhere in there, we get on this, there was a cartoon. called sing to you ever heard of it sing too the studio audience that we have we actually have a studio they're shaking their head i got a three-year-old daughter i've never very intimately involved with it i've never seen this oh so you know it's that oh yeah so what kind of movie is it it's an animation okay it's a cartoon they sing yeah it's like they're like animal characters and they like a music competition and it's you know it's like a time to put on a show and they volunteer some guy that's this famous singer i mean it's just like a animation yeah it's about it's a kid man it's about

singing okay and uh which made me then go to sing one and because he kept talking about he wanted to see the singing pig i was like there's there's no such thing as a singing pig and my wife was like oh yeah he's talking about sing too Because other people are in this kid's life, and so evidently they've introduced him to this singing pig. So I finally find it. Well, the next thing I know, I'm like, break out the popcorn. I mean, how did I miss this movie? It's awesome.

She's like, I haven't watched the whole movie. But what I, my point is... I'm seeing there's not a lot of difference between you and the two and a half year old, just in general makeup. Look, here was my point. In this movie, cartoon character, they had two songs from you too. And, you know, one of them, which is, you know, kind of the ap... Well, I guess they both are. Are the biggest moments of the movie.

They sing that where the streets have no name. Oh, yeah. They're talking about out of this world. Of course, they're, you know, going off to space. But that song... I still haven't found what I'm looking for. The other one, that one's played also. They're two different songs, but they're both in there.

Yep. And, but, you know, really, if you're familiar with you too, you know, they're believers. Yeah. Now, they came to understand the context of some of their music. You know, they came from Ireland, which you had two distinct groups of people fighting to the point of bloodshed

over Jesus, basically, which, you know, you kind of see in the YouTube narrative where they're not necessarily religious because the institutions that they came from were doing things that were downright, you know, embarrassing for the cause of Jesus. And so I think that's a lot of the, a lot of his work in there. But the basis of that, I mean, you think about where the streets have no name, I mean, talking about, you know, a place, which what is the point of that? It doesn't, you're not going to be worried about going somewhere. When the new creation happens, we get new bodies, we're living forever.

Why would you need to know the names of the streets? Yep. You're there. There's no hustle and busts. It's a pretty profound thought. It really is. Yeah. When you think of it.

And I love it. I like that way better than the idea of a street of gold. Yeah. Which we've talked about earlier. So somewhere in that, planning that trip, I concluded the same thing. Yeah, we're on a journey where it's who you're with and for how long. Yeah. Really?

I don't like it. That's the journey we're on. And we have a job to do here now to make Jesus known, which thus enter the song. I still haven't found what I'm looking for, which is a lot like that song. You can go do everything you want to in the earth, but guess what? You're going to have trouble finding forgiveness, purpose, and love. life forever. There was a, we went to South Africa a few years ago, Lisa and I did, I guess now it's been almost 20 years ago. And we were there with some singing groups. And so we were

traveling around and singing and speaking. And it was really great. And it's funny because it's one of the groups that was with us, they had that song. They opened with that. He, he, and as soon as he started it in with it, of course, the crowd goes nuts, you know, because most of their stuff is worship stuff that a lot of them don't know yet. But when he started into that you two song but then when he got to the point jess after he does that open he goes right in to open the eyes of my heart lord you know that song because it fit right in with the thing and so the idea was we we know what we're you know we know we're to find what we're ultimately looking for so it was really interesting watching these large i mean hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of

african groups and respond and react to a popular song they knew maybe not understanding the meaning of it and then hearing it shifted into something spiritual, which is pretty good. It's kind of interesting. The lyrics of, I still haven't found what I'm looking for. I don't know what their view is on the kingdom, but you too, but it is interesting because it's what we talk about a lot. It's this idea that you're experiencing things here.

You're searching, you're looking. I just pulled up the lyrics. I actually had this in a sermon I preached about six months ago, but it talks about, you know, hanging out with angels, climbing the highest mountain. running through the fields only to be with you, but I still haven't found what I'm looking for. I believe in the kingdom come. Then all the colors bleed into one,

bleed into one, but yes, I'm still running. You broke the bonds. You loose the chains, carried the cross of my shame, and you know I believed it, but I still haven't found what I'm looking for.

It's like it's presenting the picture of, yeah, the kingdom is here, but it's still, we are still in a broken world. You know, I mean, and it's not fully here yet.

We haven't fully found what we're looking, for even as Christians. I mean, we, like, we're in a broken world. And, and when I was telling someone this this week, because someone in our church is going through, a couple people are going through really tough times with some significant suffering. And when I met with them, one of the things that I talked about was the,

we preached so much about the kingdom is here. But, man, we also have to remember that it's not fully here. And so when we read, like the Psalms, for example, and the psalmist will talk about all this depressing stuff, and then the psalmist will say something like, but I trust in you, you know, the psalmist doesn't probably believe that in the moment.

It's like, I'm saying this because I want this to be true of me. I mean, and so we're rehearsing what we want to be true and what we want to believe this. I want to trust God, but that doesn't mean that you're not going to go through times where you sing this song like Bono here.

I still have a found one looking for. Yeah. But it doesn't mean. doesn't mean it's not there. It just means that it's not here fully realized yet. Yeah, kind of that transition that we talk about. Yeah, I met with a guy recently that works with their largest charitable arm. And they do most of their work on the continent of Africa. But I just love their heart for wanting to help people that can't help them, you know, have a hard time helping themselves. So it was a good work. He was telling me about what they were doing.

They knew I knew Mike Johnson. I mean, I don't decide like we're pals, but I think they were trying to hopefully get an end to him, you know. Well, they've been the subject of debate for years, because at first people were like, well, they don't seem to like religion, but that's all they sing about is spiritual things. That's why I set up the context. I think now they're more all-in for Jesus.

It's not as camouflaged, I guess, in their lyrics. And so now people like, oh, it's a bunch of, you know, wackos for Jesus, which, look, I take pride in that when people call me a wacko for Jesus. So Willie just went to their, they did a concert in that new thing in Vegas, the, what's it called, the sphere, which is, I mean, I saw it. It's incredible. It's just round, you know, basically screen. It's incredible. But he said it was awesome. My buddy Shane Everett went too.

and he said it's one of the greatest shows he's ever been to. Yeah. Just being in that space is pretty amazing. I think they spent a couple billion dollars on building that sphere. Well, I had, you know, I had those things happen, so I've been kind of thinking in that mindset. And, you know, we were in Acts 18, and when I got my Bible out and was preparing for what we were going to do.

One thing we kind of skipped over is when Paul left Corinth, he made this statement that's really, it kind of hit me in the moment is a famous statement in our society, and we've all said it. But in verse 20 of chapter 18, he says, when they asked him to spend more time with them, he declined. But as he left, he promised, I shall return. I will come back if it is God's will. and then he set sail from Ephesus. And what I found interesting is when I, you know, got to reading in Corinthians in the last chapter of 2 Corinthians, he talks about when he revisited.

But something Zach just said makes me want to read it because, I mean, obviously when you bring up the church at Corinth, we had a lot of problems here. And so. And him, you know, I guess it's tempting for him to think, you know, that or the church could say, well, look, the reason we've got so many problems is because he left. You know, he left us to our own devices. And it was kind of the sex capital of the world back then with all kind of gods and different things in the culture that they were bringing into the church.

Well, it was there a year and a half, so they did get that. Before you read that, let's take the first word. So when he gets to 2nd, Corinthians 13, and I just want to read this to say that what we're seeing in the book of Acts is all these places he visited, well, a lot of them then have letters that were written to the church there, which it's not, I think people tend to think of the Bible as just some made-up story. I mean, but all these things are going together in the context. You can read the book of Acts and then go to all these letters, Ephesus, Corinth, Philippi, Galatia. I may be leaving some out.

Colossi. So then you all have letters to the churches. So in 2nd Corinthians 13 in the first verse, it says, this will be my third visit to you. So he did come back for the second visit. Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. But watch what he says to kind of go with what Zach said about trying to be Jesus in a broken world. he said, I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time.

I now repeat it while absent. On my return, I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. So you're starting to see a little problem, when it's a big problem, in that the whole idea of Christ is getting lost. Were you at again? St. Corinthians 13. 13 and verse 2.

But I'm saying in the context of what you read in the letter to the Corinthians, I mean, you remember first again, this 15, we talked about, I think, last time. They had to be reminded of the gospel and that it was according to the scriptures that Jesus, well, what does that mean? The Old Testament is saying Jesus is the Christ who is to come. And so their lifestyle, they're not looking like the body of Christ because of the decisions that they're making. Think, you know, 1 Corinthians 6 and other passages.

But then it says, I now repeat it while absent on my return. All right, I won't spare those. Then he says, he is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you. For to be sure, he was crucified in weakness, yet he lives by God's power. Likewise, we are weak in him, which is what we were just talking about. Yet by God's power, we will live with him. to serve you. So then he, this is a very profound statement.

Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? Unless, of course, you fail the test. So we talked about that last podcast. Which, you know, we don't use language like that. That kind of language makes us nervous to stay, stuff like that. Well, I thought Willie had a really good point when, when he was on the podcast,

when he was talking about when we get in these gospel sharing moments, and, you know, if you ask someone, are you married? Well, that's a yes or no question. People, they would never stop and think about it. Are you married? They're like, no, I'm a single. You say, or if you say, well, are you a Christian? And people are like, well, I'm not sure.

Well, that's an illustration that Paul uses in Ephesians. You know, we're married to Christ. You know whether you're married to Christ or not. He does bring in the Apostle Paul because he wrote most of the New Testament. At his conversion, Anonias went, this is Acts 8, 2017. Anonis went to the house and entered it, placing his hands on Saul. He said, Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road. Remember when he went blind as you were coming here?

He has sent me, Anonai is talking about him himself. He said, he sent me that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes and he could see again. I mean, there's a lot going on with this gentleman. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Well, that's in Acts chapter 9. He gets over to Acts 22. He goes back to it again.

A man named Anonais came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there. He stood beside me and said, Brother Saul, receive your sight. And this is the way the Apostle Paul started his journey. At that very moment, I was able to see him. All of a sudden, he said, wait a minute here, I can see. Then he said, the God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the righteous one and to hear words from his mouth. You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.

And stunningly, but y'all will understand it since I'm doing the reading here. And now what are you waiting for? Get up. Be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name. that's two jabs with the same story in the book of acts. I think they're worthy of note. Now you're right, which is exactly what he was trying to relay to Jesus' point to the Corinthians

is obviously they were in love with something more. They got to argue about who was doing the baptizing. Yeah. Well, that's in 1st Corinthians one. That's right. I mean, that's why he made that profound statement. We've been doing a lot of study on the kingdom, and the kingdom is here, and then you see that little statement.

It's like, don't you examine yourself to see if Christ is in you. I mean, what a statement. That is, which it made me, it kind of convicted me, because you remember when we were kids, we used to say that General MacArthur line in Domino, we'd play Dominoes. And we got it from my grandparents because they lived in, World War II, so it was a famous line. And I knew more about the story of General Douglas MacArthur and what happened in the Philippines and Japan, because it was all wrapped up around when you passed twice in a

domino game, my grandpa would say, but I will return. It's like old General MacArthur, you'll be sitting there wondering what happened. Just look at the score. I'm coming back. But it made me think about it. He didn't talk much. He didn't talk much, but when he did, that's what he said. And then it would so animate, sigh, he would say, that's right, boy, that he would just see it all right.

He came up on that beach, boys, and I'm telling you, remember, Cy would say, they, they were fixed to, I mean, they were going to pay from the fires of hell. It just, and I realized that it became part of my DNA as a competitor in every sports activity I've ever. been involved in when I failed or lost, I used to think walking away from the field thinking, I tell you what, I will be back. And so then when the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie come out, I thought, huh, he stole the general's line. And it's like, people had never heard of it. You know, he's like, I'll be back.

I'll be back. I'll be back. But it made me, it kind of convicted me all this talking about, you know, it doesn't matter. where we're going and this kind of stuff, who you're with. I mean, actually, Jesus should be more known for that. Yeah. How many times over and Phil, you point this out all the time. Yeah, he was the original I shall return.

He was the original, I shall return. That's good. General MacArthur got it from him. Arnold Schwarzenegger got it from him. Paul got it from him. My grandpa got it. And, I mean, that's a better analogy, because he said it over and over in the Gospels.

He said, I shall return. Which is my point. I think the reason Paul is saying that when you read the two letters to the Corinthians, you see that he got that as an inspiration of Jesus. That's why he said, look, I'm not sparing you of your sin next time. And I don't think he meant like, you know, I'm going to hold you up, execute you. He was just saying, this is not right. this is about Jesus, you're not even acknowledging Jesus as the Christ.

He came back from the dead and he's in you through his spirit. Well, and he also showed that on every one of these journeys, he's been open to where God was leading him in the Holy Spirit. Remember he said the Holy Spirit said no to this? The Christ said no to that. So you see that happen as well because he says, I will come back if it is God's will. Corinthians had a huge problem with the life they were living. suing each other, taking people to court and all that.

He said, the very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you've been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? And he goes through this list, sexually immoral,

a lot of that going on there. idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexual offenders, thieves, greedy, drunkards, slanders, wise, and that's what you sum of you were. But you were washed. Well, he gets back on the same thing that he started with. You have been sanctified. You were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and his spirit of our God. So he goes through that thing about how you should live your life.

And y'all are really chewing it up on this sin thing. Yeah. But you were washed. I notice is right in the middle of that. Hang on, Zach. Let's take another break. Well, I was thinking, you know, to Jace's point, because, I mean, you said that, Jace, and I think it ties in what Phil's saying, but we underestimate what you just said about,

I forgot how you said it, but you said something to the effect of, it matters a whole lot more about who you're with. Yeah. And so when you, when we, we've talked about this a lot on the podcast, I think it's what the Lord has been moving all of us towards understanding more is, is salvation.

It's not just forgiveness from all those sins. It's, it's being washed. And what are you saved to? And what you're saved to is, is who, who you're going to be with? Who you're going to walk with?

And it's Jesus. And so I just thought of this when you said that, Jase, at the very beginning of Matthew's gospel, he gives the whole, like, genealogy of how Christ came through the line of David. And then whenever the angel of the Lord speaks and says, you're going to have, there's going to be a baby, this is verse 23. It's actually a prophecy to fulfill with the prophet. It's spoken.

Behold, this is chapter one, behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which means God with us. So you think about, to take that, that's the very beginning, the introduction of Christ. And then the very end of Matthew, the last verse in Matthew says this, this is Jesus, the one who it was said, God with us, says, and I am with you always to the end of the age. And I think that that's probably the big shift that the evangelical church a lot of us need to make is we have to move from just seeing the gospel as only about forgiveness of sins. More importantly, what it's about is who are you going to be with now or who's going to be with you, rather? And so the gospel of Matthew, for example, has two big parentheses around the entire book, which is basically Emmanuel, God with us.

And then that God, who is with us saying, I am with you to the end of the age. And so that's the formation. That's what we're trying to press into. It's not just freedom from sin so that we can live autonomously and do our own thing again. It's freedom from sin because sin separates us from God. So the freedom from sin, what's the point of it? The sin being paid for, the point is so that God can be with us, that we can be with him, we can dwell with him. And that's the real prize right there is him.

It's not just some kind of penalty that gets removing. It's much, much more than that. Sanctification and justification are in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Yep. That's what he's trying to get in their head. Well, right. This was a wicked, wicked bunch right here.

It gets into that 1st, John 4, in this world we are like him. That's why he said, examine yourselves to see whether Christ is in you. And you're like, what? This is the same one who said. Suing your brother is not on the table. You can't do it. Right. They're checking boxes.

It's a belief system. And what you see in the book of Acts is a movement of making Jesus known. That's it. And the spirit being poured out and dwelling in people and them becoming the presence of God on earth. It takes you back to that prayer when Jesus said, you know, I pray that your kingdom would come on earth as it is in heaven. They didn't realize the position they were in. Exactly.

Through the faith in God. They just didn't tie it together. Which is why he's reminding. Think about it of you. If you pass forward 2,000 years, it's the same thing right here, right here now. Same. Yeah, I agree. Well, Jason, to your question, to your point, though, how many times have you heard someone say something like, is he a Christian?

And then the answer is, well, you know, he was baptized or her? you know, when he was 12, I saw him walk the hour, whatever, the thing is that your denomination would present as the moment of salvation where probably a better question that we should ask ourselves is not necessarily that we have a moment, but we are, even if we had a moment, are we to, we should examine our life and look inside. Has your lifestyle changed? Yeah. Does Christ live in me?

I mean, is he in me? Is my lifestyle reflective of who, does it look like I'm walking with him? If you're running around suing each other, you're not on the right track. Yeah. Well, you remember the accusation they had, where is that, Acts 4 when it was like they were unschooled, ordinary men, but they had a reputation of being with Jesus. Yeah, they smelled like it. Which, you know, God has always used the last people you would think of to do great things. I mean, there's a common thing there.

You know why people get afraid of that verse that you just read. Because what the fear is, is, I just stay away from anything. anything that would cause us to question our salvation. But again, it's a limited view of salvation when you're thinking of it like that. It's just you're limiting the concept of salvation to just your justification. You're limiting it. But we get so caught up in our systematic theology that we're like, oh, we've got to protect this at all calls. So we can't go against this because if we say this and it means this.

No, the verse is pretty clear. Like we are to examine ourselves and let's look inside of ourselves and see. if the Spirit of God lives in us. I mean, I had this conversation with someone I love dearly. I won't say who because they would embarrass them, but they were doing some stuff that was not indicative that the Spirit of God. I was in them not said that the Spirit of God is in this person, but I was like, man, does it look like that though?

And eventually, like, no, that. I said, because you're quenching the spirit. Like, that's the point. Like, lean into what the Spirit is leading you into, which is, by the way, the fullness of life and human flourishing. lean into that. And then when you examine yourself to see if Christ is in you, the answer should come back. Yeah, I see fruit of that.

Well, another subtle thing, Dan brought up about the lawsuits in Corinth. But we talked about this a few podcasts back, this idea of lawfare, which you hear that word a lot right now in our current system. but this idea that instead of coming to spiritual community decisions with each other, that we want to appeal to law. And it's interesting because I hadn't really thought about it as much to we studied through acts of this time, that that's what almost every city Paul goes to. You notice they can't answer what he's doing. So what they do, they try to drag him into the local court to somehow force the law to make him stop doing what he's doing.

I mean, in essence, it's exactly what we're talking about. Yeah, going on. It appeals to law over the idea that we can just work it out because spiritually there's an answer for what we're doing. Let's take another break. Think about that verse that says they will know your Christians, or the song we sing it. They will know we are Christians by our love. Right. And so if you're suing each other.

One brother goes to law against another and this in front of unbelievers. He said, what are y'all doing? which is what they were constantly trying to do to him every city he went into yeah they'd get mad because they'd lose sales on their you know temple trinket sales and so what would they do try to drag him in the court so i think he was seeing that happen in the church and he was like well we can't be this way besides we've been delivered from that law is no longer our guiding force the judaism had always been anchored in law now it's anchored in the spirit of god so it's just a completely different lifestyle So, well, I think their point was though they were, in my point, even to just notice in that little statement that he made to the Church of Corinth, I noticed the same thing you did when he said, if it's God's will.

He was doing this not from selfish motives. He realized that God had a purpose for him. Yeah. Jesus says he did return. He came back from the dead and he's exalted. He's king of kings. poured out his spirit, and I'm going to all the ends of the earth and declaring that. Still going on.

And you see that in 1st, Corinthians 16, you know, he talks about making that second visit. And even a simple statement that he made, it was all coming back to who Jesus is, and that being the most important thing that you can get on straight. that's why he said, examine yourselves and see if Christ is in you. But in the 1st Corinthians 16 passage, he talks about right where we're at in Acts in verse 5. He said, after I go through Macedonia, I'll come to you. I will be coming because he said I'm going to come back. Perhaps I'll stay, you know, a while, verse 7.

I do not want to see you now and make only a pass and visit. I hope to spend some time with you. But then he says, but I will stay on at Ephesus. and which we're fixed to get into until Pentecost, because a great door for effective work has been open to me. And there are many who oppose this. And then he talks about when Timothy comes, carrying on the work of the Lord.

But it really just made me think, you know, where we're at today, we tend to think where we're going to Zach's point, instead of where we're going on the earth to declare Jesus. We'll worry about what happens in the afterlife when the afterlife comes. And just to make that point, I just had a thought about this. Most time when people go to Second Peter 3, it's all about, well, how, you know, when this, the earth catches on fire and Jesus comes back,

when will that happen? and Peter's asking all those questions, and we debate about it and where we're going to go or what we're going to do and what's it going to be like and, you know, these kind of questions. But you really see in some of the more obscure verses of that chapter, like it says in verse 9 of Sagate Peter 3, it says, the Lord is not slow in keeping his promise

as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting any, to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. So you ask yourself a question, well, how are they going to come to repentance? Before Jesus comes back, how are they going to come to repentance? I mean, is he going to whisper in their ear? No, it's going to be spirit-filled people representing the king saying, here's what Jesus did for you.

Which is why it takes patience, because, you know, everyone wants the Lord to come back, except for the guy that gets converted tomorrow. Well, exactly the next day. Live by faith. He's hoping you go one more day. He doubles down in verse 15. Now he says, bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation. Yeah.

I mean, what does that mean? He's saying the reason the days keep going by is I'm wanting you to be saved forever. And for those who have pushed back on that, because I could just hear someone say, well, hold on, hold on, we don't do anything. Christ does it all. You did say, you did caveat, spirit-filled believers. So the spirit's working through us, but we are doing something because look at the language in Romans. Romans 10 says, how can this, to your point, how then can they call on the one they have not believed in? This is Romans 10, 14. and how can they believe in the one whom they've not heard,

and how can they hear without someone preaching to them, and how can anyone preach unless they are sent as it is written, how beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news? So that's what you, when you say that unless a spirit-field believer brings it to them, that's what's happening is that the spirit sends the person to preach and the person preaches to them so that they can hear it. and as they hear it, then they can believe in the one who's called them. That's the process.

Well, that's a conversation we need to have. Because look, every time this comes up, you know, when people make a statement that I've made a thousand times, say, well, there's nothing you can do to merit salvation. Can't earn it. Can we all agree on that. Ephesians 2. Yeah. We're saved by grace. So we take that as a fact, and it is.

But then we say, well, that means so you can't, you know, you can't really repent because that would be you. You know, you go to the verse says he granted them repentant. And I think it's a misunderstanding because somehow we've got a humble response, a decision made in humility, somehow thinking that then we're saying we're meriting salvation. It's still a gift. If you choose to follow, it's still, that doesn't guarantee that God should forgive you. He just forgives you. You remember the prodigal son? I mean, that's the greatest analogy.

Just because he ran to the father, well, that didn't mean his father had to forgive him. Yeah. He chose to. So I think you can apply that to every response of Jesus. I'll give you an example that just popped in my head. So in Colossians 2, and I've heard people debate this, in Colossians 2, where it says in verse 11, in Him, which is mentioned a lot in the New Testament, you were also circumcised in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with the circumcision done by the hands of men. So he was relating this to as circumcision, the physical act of it, was a sign of the. the covenant. Well, this represents Christ putting off the sinful nature in verse 11. Not with the

circumcision done by the hands of man. It wasn't talking about when you're a baby boy and you have a surgery. He said this was done by Christ. And then here's the point I want to make. Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him, now there's a little statement in here, through your faith in the power of God who raised him from the dead. And so people, they debate this because they say, well, some people say, well, the only way you have faith is God grants it to you, which is technically true, because if you didn't hear about Jesus, you would have nothing to have faith in. But just because you humbly believe it, That doesn't mean you somehow deserved it.

And it's the same, I'll put baptism in that category. It's not a meritus act. It's a act just like belief is of a humble choice. God's doing the saving from beginning to end. But that little through your faith, which kind of flies in the face of people saying that somehow, you know, you can respond. without faith. Well, how would you do that? There has to be a belief in Jesus

or you wouldn't respond to anything. You follow my point, say? Yeah, I mean, that's Paul's language in Romans 5. I think the way I've heard it put is that the grace precedes faith, but that's not the language Paul uses in Romans 5. He says, therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

through Him. we have also obtained access, listen to the progression here, by faith into grace in which we stand. So I think for me it's helpful to see the progression of that. And then also to think about the definition of faith is very helpful. I love the way Francis Schaefer puts this, that when we, like saving faith is really kind of coming to Christ with empty hands. He calls them the empty hands of faith. And so that means you're raising your hands up to the sovereign God and you're saying, God, I have nothing except filthy rags.

And I'm humbling myself falling at your feet. I bring nothing to this. Save me, oh God. I have nothing. And then God does save you in that. And then you turn, how would you turn around then and say, well,

I did it, I earned it. It doesn't make sense. It's the opposite. Yeah, faith is the admission that you bring nothing to the table. So you can't. say, well, then you're bringing something to the table if you admit that you're bringing it. I mean, it's just kind of nonsensical.

It's a good illustration. Let's take our last break. It was like when, when dad decided to start a duck haul business, he needed some money to be able to buy some equipment to get started. But he had no means to do that because he was just starting. So he had not enough credit. So a man, a local businessman, gave the gift of his name. He didn't give any money.

He signed. I had taken him hunting with the device. Right. And he signed his name as a promissary. It wasn't, we weren't borrowing money from him. He just signed his name that for some reason it went belly up. He would make good on this initial loan. When you get the money, when you can pay me.

Right. Well, so it was a gift. And so dad, obviously and all of us worked for years and built a business and was successful and it's led to a lot of different things. But dad wouldn't go back now and say, okay, you know, now I've earned that initial gift by all the success and everything. You never did earn it.

That's why I think people misunderstand baptism so much. Somehow and other, because a lot of people, they'll read that in Colossus 2, because they see that through your faith. They'll say, well, this wasn't talking about water, which I'm not, you know, I'm not sure why they make that leap. Because they're like, well, the circumcision, it wasn't the actual circumcision,

but he was comparing circumcision to what Jesus does to your old sinful nature. You die, but it says in baptism. Well, that doesn't mean you're earning, because I know a lot of people who have been baptized who didn't know Jesus. Yeah. I mean, but they think, oh, well, I was baptized,

and it was at a church, so it must be good. And it goes back to that question that we were talking about that Willie asked, but you didn't marry Jesus. You did make it a work that you tried to justify yourself. It still didn't marry anything. And when you make it a work, it doesn't work. That's right.

When you make it a work. That's what Lisa says when she talks about her. She said, you know, I was baptized into the Robertson family because I knew it was my only way in. I mean, that's what she thought. I mean, she's just being honest. Well, I mean, it's fair. I do that all the time, Al, when they'll be dating. And they're like, and I mean, I've just had a conversation with a guy because I was talking

about his faith, you know? And he's like, well, I was baptized. And I said, well, why were you baptized? And he said, well, because my wife said she wasn't going to marry me unless I was a part of this church because she wanted to have the wedding at the church. And they said, well, he's not a member. He's out. You can't have it here.

You can't get any more of a work than that. And I said, what did you do about it? He said, I got baptized. Well, that's been my point on baptism, though, is that it's the water, I mean, and we may all disagree in this, but I think the water is symbolic of a spiritual baptism where you are married with Christ. You know, and so that's what, I think that's what Peter's point is, it's not the removal of dirt from the flesh.

You know, it's true, but you need to study that a little more. Because it is in water. Where was the passage where he said, he made a point about saying, we read it in Acts earlier, where he said, what's to keep them from being baptized in water? Are you talking about the unit?

I'm not discounting water baptism. Yeah. I'm not discounting it. I'm just saying that it's, water baptism is a symbol of a spiritual baptism because it's also said that I baptize you with water, but one that's coming after me will baptize you with a spirit. So there's a juxtaposition there in scripture of the difference between the two.

Now, the spiritual baptism still happened in water because... Yeah, I thought that's what you were saying. Yeah. Which is kind of which will lead into the next podcast, because they're almost out of time, about this discussion that happens with Apollos and then later... Yeah, it's very confusing if you don't think about what we just got through talk, because you're like, wait, what? Yeah.

It is. And I was just thinking a lot of people bring up. They just said, well, it wasn't water. But you know, you have their story in Acts 8, the Philip and the Ethiopian unit. They're going around through a desert. And he's like, look, here's some water. Why shouldn't it be baptized? So whatever that was symbolizing, it was actually in water.

And the one I can't remember off my head. I think it was Acts 13. So while you're looking for that, so back to Lisa's point, so at 33, She finally realized that she had not married Christ and he was not her Lord. And when she had that moment, she submitted herself and she was eventually baptized, but her heart was changed. So you had that spiritual circumcision. And we can all agree that she's been a different woman ever since. And so, you know, it's evidence of that from a work to something else.

I found it. I found it. So let me do this real quick. in Acts 10, when Peter gets up in verse 44, and you got to remember, the bigger picture here was that the Gentiles, people not from Israel, could be saved. This was the occurrence, so I don't want to take the context of the situation out. But while Peter was still speaking, verse 44, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. And he referenced, it was like in Acts 2 when they saw the Spirit fall.

they were the miraculous gifts, the manifestation in a miraculous way of the Holy Spirit. So the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues. And so they see these miracles. So then Peter said, well, can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? Well, what's he talking about? What's he talking about? He's talking about H-2O.

Water baptism. Yeah. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. And that wasn't a work that merited their salvation. You know, go back to Luke 15 in my analogy about the prodigal son. God is still giving the gift of forgiveness in Jesus. Jesus' death on a cross is resurrection.

But it's a humble act. That is a decision. And the miracle was the sign that now they are to be included in the gospel. I don't know how else you can take that. Well, I mean, I think if you, not to open up a can of worms at the end here, but they, well, you're one minute over and you're trying to open up a can of worms. Just take that top and put it right back on there, Zay. Let me say this.

They had the Holy Spirit. Then they were baptized. Well, they had the miraculous manifest. No, they know eh. They were speaking in tongue. There was a miraculous. I mean, they did have that, but I'm saying the salvation may have proceeded. Well, I'll tell you what, you can argue with Peter about that in the next life.

So we'll take that as a good spot to end as Zach is awaiting his argument with Peter. And we'll pick this up next time on the issue. We'll return with an apology. We shall return. We shall return with an apology for Zach for misusing that verse. I'll be back. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to Blaze TV at blazediv.com slash unashamed.