Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 899 | Phil’s Demonic Encounter at Rehab & Why Jase Stayed Up All Night His First Year of Marriage

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

Phil remembers encountering a woman in a rehab center who had a disturbing and possibly demonic reaction to the name of Jesus, and Jase is intrigued by how his relationship with late-night Bible studying has evolved over the years. The guys discuss the incident when Paul preached a young man named Eutychus to his death before resurrecting him in the street. Al points out the differences between Western church culture and other church cultures that treat church gatherings as all-day marathon events. In this episode: Acts 20; Romans 16, verse 23; Revelation 2, verses 2-7 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I'm still in New Orleans. Hopefully be back home by the next time we record our podcast. Just again, a thanks to all the Unashamed Nation. You guys have been great out there praying for mom who's home and getting better every day. Dad told me and also for Lisa and her recovery, which has been. going well. So we're going to see the doctor tomorrow. And our hope is that we'll get these drains out and be headed home. So thank you for that. I hadn't had a chance to mention it,

Jace, because we've been talking about. We had a little time off for all of us. And we worked ahead on the podcast. And Lisa and I went to, we did a cruise in Europe on the Western Mediterranean. and we took Carly and Joey, who turned out to be their honeymoon cruise. And I guess in true Robertson fashion, it was a family affair because Lisa and I went, and also Joe and Christine, Jersey Joe, it was the first time they'd ever been out of the country. And we had a great time together. Joey and Carly were with us and BK. And we started in Barcelona.

So, Dad, I got one up on, who was it, the guess who? who said they'd never been to Spain? Who was it? Or was that three dog night? Yeah. They'd never been to Spain. Well, I've been to Spain now. I've been to Barcelona.

We started there. We worked our way along the Mediterranean, France, and then ultimately in Italy. And so I wound up in Rome, which is interesting because we're in the book of Acts, and that's exactly where Paul is headed, not quite the same route that I took,

because he was going through Turkey and all that to get there. But in the last podcast, we were talking about Ephesians and this big riot that happens. And, you know, in Turkey, which is where ancient Ephesus was, actually the ruins there are pretty amazing. There's a, there's pretty much most of an amphitheater that was in the city that had a whole 25,000 people, which is pretty amazing for a first century, you know, without sound systems and all that, that they would build this amphitheater. So this riot that we've been talking about in Acts 19 probably took place in and around that whole setting and everything that was there. So it was, I think it's helpful when we read stuff like this in the first century when we can still look back and see some of that.

Of course, we did that when we were in Rome. And I've been there a couple other times before we filmed Dad's movie there, a torchbearer, which you can still get, by the well, Amazon Prime. Every once in a while you guys ask me about it. Zach wrote most of it and wrote a lot of it and the thoughts behind it. But we were right there in the Coliseum, Neuros Gardens, all the things that we will happen to Apostle Paul here just in the coming years is still there. You can still go and look at it and the history of us there.

And so to me, it makes it very real. When we talk about all these things in first century Christianity and everything is kind of exploding in the Book of Acts to know that some of those places are still just like they were back when this was written, which is pretty amazing when you think about it. So we're in Acts 19 is where we are, but we're getting to 20. We had this big riot, and Paul is on the move. He's heading ultimately to Jerusalem, but he's going to work his way back through Macedonia

and the churches that have been established. And he winds up in Corinth. and he spends three months there. Most scholars think that that was probably 56-57 AD, so this is after his missionary journeys. And Dad, I thought this was interesting when he was there for that three months in Corinth is when he wrote the book of Romans, most of the historians think. And I think that's true.

And he was staying at the home of Gaius because we found out that here. But you can also read that in Romans 1623. So at the end of the book, he tells you what he was, where he was at, and we're at that place here in the book of Acts. And it's really interesting because he lays out kind of what he wants to do when he gets there. And it also shows you that the evil forces have really lined up against Paul. And so he's just kind of like a pinball. He's bouncing around. He knows he's being led to Jerusalem and ultimately to Rome, but he's not exactly sure other than it's going to

be a rough, you know, ride to get there. And so that's kind of what's happening. It's happened to an emphasis and it's going forward. And I wanted to read this story to get us kicked off today because in chapter 20, of course, it describes his sort of travel plans. And then he winds up in a city called Troas in verse 7. And something really interesting happens here. You know, all of us have preached. Most of us have just done it as lay people now because I spent the long longest time probably was a paid preacher. So we've had a lot of preaching stories and preaching experiences, but I can say, I don't know that I've ever had this one happen in one of my sermons.

But they wind up waiting there in Troas. He's trying to get back to Jerusalem before the Passover, but it doesn't quite make it. So on the first day of the week, they came together to break bread. And by the way, this is really the first time we kind of see that it seemed to be now a Christian tradition that they would meet on Sundays. It's the first time we kind of see this mentioned in the book of Acts. It seemed to be, and a lot of people think I did a lot of research on that. A lot of people think it's because back in Jerusalem, they would recognize the Sabbath,

of course, because the Jewish heritage is still very strong. So while they were all together for the Sabbath, whenever, you know, that breaks at sundown on Saturday that they would just go ahead and stay together and then probably celebrate Christ. and the Lord's suffering and everything else together, you know, and that just naturally went into Sunday. So that's what most of them think, but who knows. Paul spoke to the people, so he's got a group together. And because he intended to leave the next day, he kept on talking until midnight.

So it was kind of a Larry Bowles situation. Since I know Larry's listening, so Larry, that was for you. There were many lamps in the upstairs room. where we were meeting. Seated in a window was a young man named Eutychus who was sinking into a deep sleep as Paul talked on and on. And by the way, this young man looked it up. He was a teenager. Probably it would have been somewhere between 10 and 19 for the Greek word there. When he was sound asleep and he's sitting in the window probably to stay cool, he fell to the ground from the third story and was picked up dead. Now, remember Luke, who's a physician, is he.

here. So he's writing this. So Luke is probably the one that said, nope, he's a governor. So Paul is, you know, Luke is there and he's a physician. So he's pronounced him dead on the ground. And in verse 10, Paul goes down, throws himself on the young man and puts his arms around him. Don't be alarmed, he said. He's alive. Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left. The people took the young man home alive were greatly comforted. So I've never preached somebody to their death. And I've never preached all night either. And yet Paul seems to do both here, which is really interesting as to how this happens.

And I'm sure this was probably this young man probably had a story to tell for the rest of his life as to what happened. Jace, you ever preach somebody to their death? No, but I have been threatened before. But in Larry Bow's defense, when I went over with him in Greece, you know, he would do, I think they're four-hour sessions, four hours. But these people who are refugees coming from these different countries, who basically feel like God has rescued them just because they're alive. Because the journey from them leaving these terrorist countries getting there,

I mean, I heard a lot of their stories. They're crazy and scary. But in Bowles' defense, these people are so enamored with the gospel and their position in Christ. They're like sponges. They're sitting there for four hours because every hour I had to get up, stretch my legs, get a cup of coffee. You know, that's that American Western culture. You know, I'm like, Larry, write a book.

give it to them just kidding but they they were they were not bored and uh so i think you know when you read this that this is earth-shattering messages that paul is given yep into the current culture here and jesus being exalted and the holy spirit being poured out and these apostles having this ability to do miracles has created a, an attention span that I think warrants what was going on. No, I think you're exactly right. And not only that, Paul's coming back through. Well, Paul is the, remember he was in Corinth for a long time for like a year and a half.

And so, like, when he comes back through, he's got a lot to say. And he also knows now, as dad mentioned this in last podcast, he knows he's getting near the end of his life. And so there's things he wants these people to know. And you're exactly right about the tension span. When I used to go to Africa, I mean, there was an expectation. And I figured out why. So I'm riding along with Isaac Day.

And we're driving for miles to this little place where I'm going to be speaking. And he keeps blowing the horn and waving to people. And I said, man, this guy knows everybody. And I realize we get there. And like for the next two hours, we're just waiting. And I'm like, why am I not speaking? Because these people that we passed on the road, three miles back, they're just getting there. they walk there.

So when I get up to speak, there's no 30-minute sermon. It's like, we just walk five miles to hear you. Let's, let's shuck the corn. So I would wind up speaking two hours. And because it was an expectation, you know, they'd walked a long way to get there. And they wanted to hear what I have to say. So it is a mindset.

In America, we're just like, man, you know, if you hadn't struck on 20 minutes, quit boring mindset. And so really our attention spans are so much short. than what we're seeing here in the first. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, technically I didn't answer your question. But when I was in the Ukraine in the early 90s, and we went over and shared Jesus,

basically we would have what we called, you know, a house church or a Bible study every night because there were no church buildings there for Christianity. And even though it was now legal to do that, it was frowned upon. So it was a lot of secret meetings at night. So I'd give a presentation, the same presentation, as what you're reading in the book of Acts. I would just basically in 10 minutes tell the story of Jesus, scheme of redemption.

Then they would ask questions all night. You know, it never ended until daylight. And we'd take a nap and then go speak at the university. But that was the pattern. It's like it was never over because they had. have been introduced to Jesus, and they had all these questions. And I mean from every conceivable angle. And so I guess technically that would be all-night sermons, you know, but of course all

these people were young, which was amazing that that was the draw. The younger people, I guess, were more open to the risk involved in that culture, embracing Jesus. but look it excited me and fired me up that a person would want to talk about Jesus all night long yeah so and it happened every night we just we'd go and the sun would come up and we literally have been talking all night and it was just small groups of people every night running through there uh i had a similar experience jays in romania uh back in the early night And same thing.

You know, communism had fallen and, you know, you couldn't meet in homes. It was, it was, would would be subversive to the communist dictatorship. So, you know, people were very uncomfortable about meeting together because they were waiting for somebody to kick a door in every time we got together. So we were almost having to retrain their mindset that it was okay. It was really interesting because we would just start meeting, you know, like it, after we ate about six o'clock and people just kind of kept it was a come and go and so there was all these albanian refugees and all these different people and any given time we would have a room full

but then some would leave and some new people would come and we basically would just go from six till about 11 o'clock at night and we every time the new group would show up kellet was with us you know we'd sing a few songs and he'd teach them some you know american songs and christian songs and then we'd have a little Bible study and one of us would pipe in. And it was really interesting because it was just like, and we did it every night for three weeks. And so you just build this loving relationship, but it was so much like what we're seeing here. It was just this thirst, you know, for something more. And they were new and they were excited.

And, of course, then about every third night, we baptized somebody in the bathtub, you know. And then you just start this whole new celebration. And so it was just, it was really exciting. It reminded me so much of what we're reading about. out here when you see that. Yeah, the first year of my marriage was like that. I mean, you know, my best man in my wedding who I had shared Jesus with, he was the first person I ever vocally shared Jesus with. And it took him, I guess, two or three years to respond, but he responded during the week of my wedding. And what happened was a chain reaction of him getting

his buddy and his buddy getting, you know, he was dating his sister. And, you know, so we shared and it just, it went on and snowballed and, and just became what I did the first year in marriage. I mean, I had to take a time out because at some point I was going to bed when my wife was getting up. And they would call them all night study sessions, because we would go, whatever we'd get into sharing Jesus with somebody and they would usually last all night which was really excited i mean we brought hundreds of people to the lord i'd recommend you being young if you do that and do it with your wife because at some point my wife was like i'm i never see you we're married and i was like yeah because we were all on board in bringing people to jesus but we had to make

an adjustment of and some of it was my fault because i was thinking not only are we getting them in Jesus, we got to keep them in Jesus. That was where I had to make an adjustment. Because it's like, you can't do that. You can't carry them. You can lead them. You can share Jesus. You can disciple them.

But you're not going to be able to put them on your shoulder and carry them. Because you know what would happen. New Christians, they lose their way or whatever. So I could see that. But I think those are good times. I mean, I do think, I mean, there's a part of that even today. The last time I ran into Adam Oroche, he's like, let's go do a Bible study. And we studied from about 8 o'clock at night until the sun came up.

And it was just because he was excited. I mean, he was at a time in his life. He was just excited. And we just, we studied all night long until we fell asleep. So I think those are good things. No, exactly. And it's part of this whole growth process that you're seeing in the, the churches. And I can guarantee you one thing, Eudicus never forgot that night. And probably

never forgot that sermon because, I mean, he's telling him, yeah, that's the night I died and was resurrected. Another interesting thing, and it may not even, it may just be a coincidence, but, you know, I don't find a lot of coincidences in scripture, is that this, Paul used the same method. Because he could have just like, Paul had the power. Remember, even his handkerchiefs that he was touching had brought. He. to people. So he could have just like said the word, but he goes down and he falls on top of him. And it took me back. As soon as I read that, it took me back to both Elijah and Elijah in, in First Kings and Second Kings, both had a situation where they did the exact same thing. Elijah's was in First King, 1721, Elijah's, Second Kings,

434, where to raise someone from the dead, they fell on top of them. So you can imagine, it's almost like they're just like hugging. I'm like, oh, we see people like weeping and, you know, because they lost somebody. But then they stand up and they're like, oh, he's good. And so it's just an interesting way of transferring this power of life into a dead person. And I don't know that he did that on purpose, but I would think some people in the audience, especially a Jewish audience, would have recognized this technique that happened. It just struck me as interesting. Well, I've just always viewed that this was confirmation that these men were chosen by God

and the Holy Spirit gave these proofs of authority that they were sent from God. You know, and then you get into the debate we did a couple weeks ago, well, is that still going on today, which is the big question that everybody asked. I was talking about it with a buddy of mine because he asked me how the pie came ass went and I said, well, Zach called me a cessationalist. Sessianist. And, okay. Sessationist, Jason.

I'm mispronouncing it now on purpose for a point. But, you know, and he said. And again, that's different from a secessionist, which would be somebody that doesn't want to be a part of the United States. So there's a lot of words here, a lot of things you can go wrong. I said, well, I think there was a misunderstanding. My point was that these things were happening via the apostles or. through people that the apostles laid their hands on.

I said, I was just making an observation. That's what's happening in the book of Acts, which he agreed with. But then he asked an interesting question. He said, well, if someone asked you to perform an exorcism, would you do it? And I said, well, yeah, I'd go share Jesus with them. That is what I would do.

And he's like, well, would you cast them? the demon out. I was like, well, the reason I'm sharing Jesus with him is I'm going to let him figure out how he wants to deal with that. I mean, that is what we're supposed to do is share Jesus. And if the spirit gets involved in that kind of thing, you know, and he said, well, how would, because I said, well, how would you know he had a demon, you know? And he's like, well, if he was convulsing and rolling around on the ground. And I was like, well, you know, I think the spirit would have to give you the ability to discern that's what that is. And there's been a few times where I thought that was going on.

Me too. But I shared Jesus. I said, or I would just call the elders. And which this individual is one. So I said, well, I would call you and let you handle it. Well, Phil had to run any. I think he shared it on the podcast a few years ago. years ago, yeah.

Yeah, with the girl at the rehab center. And, you know, I mean, that was a deal where, you know, Phil just essentially, she was foaming at the mouth. And I think Phil's description was, sounded like she was gargling meat. Yeah. Hercing and, you know, all that. Do you remember that, Phil? Yep. Well, what did you do, Phil?

Did what you did. That's what I'm saying. He just shared Jesus. Right. Yeah, Phil said, Phil told her, he said, the one in you is. is the devil's in you, but something he, I mean, I know Phil said the name of Jesus. And, and when he said that, she ran outside and vomited this clear substance or whatever it was. And then she came back in and was like normal.

So I don't know, you know, what happened there. You know, I do know this. Like, I'm with you, Jason. I mean, someone asked me the other day about this. And because I preached on Jesus casting out the demons and then something happened. And somebody said, what do you? you know, I've never cast out of demon. I've never done that.

And I don't know how all that works. I do know this, though. I do know that the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus is more powerful than any demonic force out there. And at the name of Jesus, I mean, like that, that's the power. The powers, and it's not a magic password, as we said last week. It's the sustaining presence of Christ and his authority that that is powerful. I mean, that, it is a power play. you know, and our goal was to simply open that door up and say, hey, here's,

here's the one who changed us. And, you know, you can have the same. Well, exactly. I mean, the point I'm making is that Euticus, you assume that he died again at some point. So the resurrection of Jesus, ultimately, him being at the right hand of God, is greater than the miracles. I mean, you said the same thing for Lazarus. Yeah.

And the answer is. Jesus, no matter what, right, Jesus is right. Because in the same with whether a person has a demon or not. One night, Dad and I were called by a family and they had a young man. I think he was probably in his 20s. And I mean, just what people from the world, I don't know if they'd say demon possessed, but he was certainly, they would say it was crazy. But it seemed like an episode we had never seen before.

But all we did was share Jesus with him. We prayed with him. He calmed down. It wasn't like there were some mass. thing like Zach mentioned earlier. But after that point, he's done much better. So, you know, was a demon cast out that night? I don't know.

But we answered it with Jesus. Well, we got into an interesting debate, me and my buddy, because he said, well, you know, you got to remember the purpose of miracles is to leave people to Jesus. And I kind of interrupted in it. And I said, well, I think the purpose was to validate the messenger and the message of Jesus. And I'm not sure he agreed with that, but I thought, is that a thing?

I mean, because what I'm saying is there was a lot of people that had miracles done in their life that you assume didn't follow Jesus. I mean, you had Jesus feeding the 5,000, you had all these miracles that happened, and then in the book of Acts, it said the believers were together.

Now, maybe they're assuming they didn't all gather up, but there was only 120. I mean, that seems like a very small number when you factor in all the miracles that happened. And so I think it was more about listening to the authority of the one speaking if they do a miracle. Whatever he's saying is what you need to pay attention to. Yeah, I agree 100%. I want to hit this last section. because it's very interesting. Paul has left Ephesus now,

and we know he's heading for Jerusalem, but he's going to come, remember he kind of took a circuitous route and went back around again to the old churches. And so he finds himself close to Ephesus again, but he didn't want to go back in the city and get back into the whole thing. You know, he had left out,

remember with the big riot before. So he gets to this city, and this is in Acts 20, verse 17, and he comes to this place called Malita. us. And so it's nearby. And so he sends for the Ephesian elders, Paul sent to Ephesus for the elders of the church. That's verse 17. And his last speech is really interesting. And I want to read it and us talk about it for the rest of the podcast, because I think it's going to set us up perfectly for when we get into the book of Ephesians. And here's what he said to him. And it's really interesting because

there's a lot in this speech. And I think it's a lot that parallels to what we deal with today. You know how I lived, he told him, the whole time I was with you. From the first day I came into the province of Asia. So he's like, you know me. I serve the Lord with great humility and with tears, although I was severely tested by the plots of the Jews, which we've talked about. You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you, but have taught you publicly and from house to house. I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you. I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. So as he comes back to that simple message again, here's what it was all

about. And now he says, compelled by the spirit, I am going to Jerusalem. not knowing what will happen to me there. I only know that in every city the Holy Spirit warns me that prison and hardships are facing me. However, I consider my life worth nothing to me if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace. And I like it because Paul just continues to show how driven he is to do what he's been called to do. Now, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. You say I'm at the weight of that when he says that.

Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men, which is quite the statement, especially with Paul's past, for I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, be shepherds of the Church of God, which he bought with his own blood. I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. And he adds this, even from your own number, men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard.

remember that for three years I never stopped mourning each of you night and day with tears. Now I commit to you, now I commit you to God and to the Word of His grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified. I have not coveted anyone's silver or gold or clothing. You yourselves know that these hands of mine has supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions. in everything by this kind of hard work, we must help the week, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said, it is more blessed to give than to receive. When he said this, he knelt down, he prayed with him. They all wept, embraced him, and kissed him.

And what grieved them most was the statement that they would never see his face again. Then they accompanied him to the ship. So, I mean, it's just a, it's a fascinating sort of. final words to this group of men and to their leadership. And there's so much in it that I think applies to us today for what we see and what happens in churches, in leaderships, and false teachers and all the things that kind of plague us. So what's your take on the final farewell to the Ephesian elders? Well, my first impression is, you know, you have this story.

about the guy dying, you know, listening to the sermon and the riots. And you have this message, which he's real simplistic. And, you know, grace has mentioned a lot. And it's all about declaring Jesus as Lord in the gospel of God's grace. And you're going to have false teachers come in there. But, you know, one of the churches that Jesus addressed in Revelation was to the church in Ephesus. And I think it's interesting to read that in chapter two of Revelation. He says, these are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand

and walks among the seven golden lampstands. I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not and have found them false, which is why I've been making a big deal about, you have to admit that these apostles had these special gifts of the Holy Spirit

that they were showing, you know, raising dead people from the ground. They had authority. Yeah, they had authority. And Jesus validates that right here, which is why I've been making such a big deal by it. From time to time, all the way, the first of Acts, when you first start on faith in Jesus, his death, burial, and resurrection,

every time it seems like he goes through a series of events, but it still all comes down to my life, I consider it worth nothing to me. If only I may finish the race, complete the task, the Lord Jesus has given me, testifying to the gospel, The death of Jesus, his burial, resurrection, is what he's talking about. And now I know that none of you among who I've gone about preaching the kingdom. In other words, the gospel is the good news. Jesus died, was buried and raised from the dead. If you believe that, you need to be repent and be baptized.

That's over on the, just before this, that he gets to this. And it's pretty amazing. It all comes back to the simplicity. of Jesus saves, he's died on the cross, he's been buried, he's been raped from the dead, you obey that and you become a member of the kingdom. It's not coming here in a way in the future. It's here and it's growing and it's getting bigger all the time. And to this day, it's the same message, the same kingdom,

and the same obedience to it. That's simple. Yeah, verse 25 there. I mean, I love how he gives a centrality of his purpose and his teaching. He says it was the proclamation of the kingdom. He says, everyone that I've been proclaiming the kingdom to, you're not going to see me again. But it does give us kind of, it kind of wraps up his entire ministry of what Paul, because, you know, we go through the gospels, and it's very easy in the gospels to see that Christ came.

teaching about the kingdom. That whole book of Acts is all wrapped up in a tight little place, and that's Acts chapter 20 down there at the bottom, testifying to the gospel of God's grace and preaching the kingdom of God. It's not rocket science. It's really interesting that James brought in Revelation 2. I hadn't thought about that because in essence,

Jesus is validating Paul's concerns about what's going to happen with the Ephesian Church. Because remember, this revelation comes about quite a bit later from when Paul is talking here in Acts 20. And so, J.S., you're right. I mean, Jesus is saying, you know, he's saying this is exactly what you're dealing with, what Paul said they would deal with. So it almost validates his concern. Yeah, that's what, and I wanted to finish this because in, so in Revelation, two, three, he says, you have persevered and have endured hardships for my name and have not grown

weary. Then he says, yet, I hold this against you. You have forsaken your first love. And that's part of the reason we were talking about, man, isn't that awesome when you first come to Christ and you're excited and you'll stay up all night? And even in their case, even if you die, fall out of a third story window, he'll raise you back up. We're going again.

It's all this excitement in Jesus. But as a lot of churches do, they get comfortable and they start embracing the culture in this case. Because he goes on to say, remember the height from which you have fallen, repent, and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lamps down from its place. But you have this in your favor. You hate the practices of the Nicolations, which I also hate. And so he says, he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

And if you do a quick Bible search slash internet search of the Nicolations, it's obviously the same problem that you always see coming to the church, which is why I think he gave them this speech, which is when you're saying you believe in Jesus, yet you're living. like the world, we have a problem, which usually discounts or is the number one sign that someone is a false teacher. If a guy's up there preaching every Sunday, and then during the week, he's having multiple affairs or cheating people out of money, you're like, well, wait a minute here. And I think that's why you see stuff like in Ephesians 5 when he wrote the letter to the Ephesians in verse three when he said, but among you there must not even be a hint of sexual immorality or of any kind of impurity or of greed. Because these are improper for God's holy people because I think that's what the Nicolosians were teaching, this kind of dual

citizenship with Jesus and you can go have sex in the name of whatever and it be okay and eat, you know, food, sacrifice to idols, the same kind of problems that were happening in that culture. But what he goes on to say in Ephesians, which I think this is interesting. He says in verse 5, for this you can be sure no immoral, impure, or greedy person as any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God,

which was part of his speech here in Acts 20 about sharing the kingdom. And I think that's what gets detached after a while. You think, okay, Jesus saved me. I'm saved. I have God's grace. So I can go do whatever I want to. I'm in a good position.

And then all of a sudden your life starts deteriorating where you're not representing the king. You're part of a kingdom that's representing the king. And when that becomes detached, which is why I think the rebuke and revelation is like, You got to return to your first love, which is the king. His love for you. I think when you think about false prophets, wolves coming in, all the stuff that Paul's talking about here, yeah, all the things you mentioned are visible signs of that.

But also, I think, you know, we live in a culture now. I just saw this recently. And some guy was installed as an apostle. And I was like, nope. There's no more apostles, you know what I mean? Like, you want to know? Like, how do we know if someone's a false apostle? Well, you're not an apostle.

I mean, the apostles have lived. They walked with Jesus. They had apostolic authority. When they wrote letters, we called them scripture. I mean, these guys, what they wrote was binding. And so I think that the idea, though, is that we want to consolidate power. And that's a lot of that, that's what it feels like. I want power.

I want power. I want power. but when you see the kingdom dynamic, it's not to consolidate power for yourself. It's to take your little kingdom and it's to fold your own little kingdom under his kingdom. It's to live under the rule and the reign of the king of Christ. It's not to consolidate the power for ourselves.

It's actually to live under his power and under his rule and under his authority. No, I think you're right on it, Zach. And you notice when Paul gives the sort of the way this is going to go down, it's exactly what Jesus, his rebuke was. And I would say, Jay, I would argue probably out of the seven rebukes, the one to the church in Ephesus was probably the lightest of the seven. And the reason why was because they were good people. They just got apathetic. You're so right. And that's exactly what he said.

He said, look, you have to keep watch. In other words, you can't get apathetic because here's what's going to happen. First it's going to be people coming in from the outside, but then ultimately, when that happens, then you begin to have trouble on the inside. And how many times have we seen that happen in a church? You get apathetic. You forget about the first love. You forget about your mission, which is in Jesus.

And then all of a sudden, other people start coming in with these doctrines and teachings. And then you fall apart. And there's this power grab that happens within churches. And so I've seen this demise, Satan worked this on modern churches as much as he did on this church. And the answer gets back to that remember your first love, which is not that hard to do if you just can reset and go back to who Jesus is in the kingdom. Well, right, because then it becomes what we were talking about on the last podcast. The churches today, especially in America, function like businesses in the world. and you have this underlying principle of we're not supposed to love the world.

But when they start functioning that way, or, you know, money starts rolling in or success starts happening, then people in authority like that. And all of a sudden, it starts becoming worldly, and then it becomes a power struggle, which is just the way the world works, you know. and you see it, and then all of a sudden you lose your first love, and you look up and it divides, or, you know, the preacher goes to prison. I mean, you see this over and over and over, and people are like, what in the world is going on?

Well, that's a good question. What in the world is going on? But on the apostle thing, I love to read 1st Corinthians 9-1 occasionally, because they were attacking Paul's credentials because he was just letting them have it about living like the world. You just had 1st Corinthians 6 talking about what you were, and it was some pretty graphic sins. And then chapter 8, this whole issue about eating the food

that were sacrificed to idols. But then he says, Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? and so, you know, he seems to be implying here pretty strongly that a prerequisite for being an apostle is being an eyewitness to the resurrected Lord. Yep. Which to Zach's point, that's going to be hard to do. Now, people try to make it work by saying, well, God told me, you know, and there's multiple people that say they had a Damascus experience where they have this conversation.

with Jesus, and there's multiple religious groups out there even today who base their faith on some guy saying, I saw the Lord. And here's what he told me. And the church started, and you can go Bible that and figure it out. Exactly. But that would be a dangerous thing because the reason we're pushing back on that and the reason Jesus said, hey, watch out. you know watch

these teachings that come in and these people, the Nicolations or even what Paul said is because whenever a guy does that, there's something that happens or a gal, you're saying that you're more special than everybody else. And I don't believe that to be true. And you're also saying that what Jesus did is not enough. Yeah.

Because whatever this revelation is from this encounter, which now makes you an apostle, they're adding something to what Jesus did. What Jesus came to do is more than enough. And the scriptures, like the canon has been closed. So if you're waiting on additional. That's a good T-shirt there. The canon has been closed. Or a bumper sticker.

at least. Yeah, there's nothing. There's no more information that's going to come that you're going to be like, now the Holy Spirit speaks to us individually and convicts us about our own heart and our own sin. And that varies from person to person and moment to moment. And he is convicting me of new information about me. But he's not giving any extra biblical revelation moving forward.

There's nothing that's going to happen. Oh, also in addition to everything that's in the Bible, there's also this other stuff that I meant to tell you guys that I forgot to put in there. Like, that's not happening. So you just dial it back for a second. He said, why are we putting so much of our trust in the visions of men? Yeah, I don't understand that. Like, men are flawed.

And any vision that a pastor has that is not coming from the word, which you also have access to, by the way, as a layman. A layman has access to the scriptures, just like a priest or just like a professional clergy or just like a pastor of a church. Like, everybody has access to this right here. And the information is in here. Like, that's the revelation. You're not going to get another revelation beyond that that's greater.

And I think that we want it because we can attach our identity to someone else's identity. I think that's why we do it. So there's kind of this unspoken thing happening where, you know, a lot of times maybe the leader, might need to be fed and need the ego fed. And then the people under that leadership, man, they, they want someone just to just tell me what to do. Just tell me what to do. You know, it's not healthy, though.

And I think what we're seeing now is a lot of, a lot of that's falling apart. And people love scratching their head thinking, man, why didn't this turn out? Well, you got to remember your first love. It's Jesus. No, that's right. That's it. And that takes you back there. I was going to make that point.

I mean, I have a euticus experience. every night, except I don't die because I have that experience on the ground level of my couch because I fall asleep, studying the Bible, or listening to a sermon. I literally fall asleep. I go till I was just like, that's it. But if I fall out the couch, I'll be all right. I'm recommending that to study. How many do you hear on a regular basis?

Jesus died, was buried, and raised from the dead. Well, I hear it a lot, but I think we should hear it more than what we're hearing. How about that? I don't say we hear that a lot. Well, but Phil, you live in the middle of nowhere and you never go out. But, I mean, there are a lot of people declaring that and more power to them. Well, as the canon has been closed, the apostleship, no need to apply. We've had the foundation of the apostles.

So what we're going to do is make a transition into the book of Ephesians next time. And it's a perfect jumping off place because when we get there, you'll understand if you could break the book down, and I'll give you a tease. It's the purpose, the first three chapters and then the practice of Christianity. It really is that simple. We have purpose and we have practice and what we do. So we'll get into that next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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