Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 901 | Phil Went for Two Years Without Shoes & What Does the Bible Say about Dinosaurs?

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

Phil recalls going shoeless for multiple years back in his pre-Jesus days, and his sons think that’s one of the things that contributed to his living legend. Jase discovers multiple scriptural references to mythical creatures, but what do they mean? The guys point out the difference between man and animals, though there are similarities, too. Zach and Jase begin to tackle the prickly subjects of predestination, original sin, and why humans use their God-given gifts to create evil. In this episode: Ephesians 1, verses 1-11; Romans 1, verses 18-32; Romans 7, verse 9; John 10, verses 14-18 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? I was close enough for our kid to get a good look at him. I wanted to revisit this because we brought up in a previous podcast kind of the old Black Panther argument. Bill has done. Dad has seen some kind of wildcat, big cat. It's a conversion of sorts. He has now joined. Because I've been there for 20 plus years because I know what I saw. But Phil, you got to remember you've now teamed up with your brother. as being the spokesman for wild cat.

Which that's what mom, I asked mom about it, Dad, and she said, oh, size's been validated. Like, he's been maligned all these years, but now it's all true because your daddy saw that. So, well, Mom, no, we may be going a bit far because none of us are saying we saw a black panther. We just saw a big cat. There's a difference in the two.

Bigger than your normal house cat. Yeah. Solid, solid black, but not black, more of a dark, dark brown. noticed a pattern though that these sightings usually occur that these cats although bigger than they say a wild i mean a domestic cat or a bobcat they're always on the smaller side they're always younger wild cats and i noticed secondly that they're usually viewed by more mature individuals yeah i was young when i saw mine were you i was in my 30s so i'm convinced i was a little bit younger. But yeah, you're right, Jay's. And a lot of times we see things we're not sure about

and then we're convinced of something else. See, that's a mystery, but that mystery doesn't have to be solved. No, it was what it was. Well, my thing is, I've always known... It was a cat. I've always known that eventually there'd be some more of them show up, and so somebody's going to get it on a deer camera or something where we get a good... I mean, he ran. I had to slow down or I had to run over him, coming out of the ditch, and he was coming up out of the ditch. and I was looking at tail. I mean, I'd be just looking at him. I said, what the world kind of cat is at?

Yeah. It would have been unfortunate if you would have ran over him, but it would have provided some evidence, some actual evidence. But I don't want to be more. He didn't have a collar around his neck. No collar. So he was wild. We've established he at least was wild.

He was a wild cat. Now, I don't know. He might have escaped from somebody that raised his cats and because Dan has cats run out there. You can't even get close to him. Oh, yeah. Feral. Feral.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Feral cats. Dad, I did have a conversation yesterday with our good friend Jersey, Joe, and I had not talked to Joe since, because we all went to Europe together and did a cruise, but then Lisa had to come back for her surgery. So he went to Rome for three days without us. And he was so excited because Joe's a cook. In fact, we're working on having them on.

one of our future cooking with the Robertson's episodes. And he's good. He cooks Italian food, Italian from New Jersey. His grandmother told him, he doesn't even call it sauce. He calls it gravy, Italian gravy. So he has this thing built up in his mind that when he goes to the motherland, you know, he goes to Italy, which is where his, you know, heritage is from,

he's just going to be blown away, you know, when he gets to Rome and he's in there eating these dishes that he grew up hearing about. So I asked him. I said, well, Joe, tell me because I hadn't talked to you since then, because he was going to film some episode stuff over there for his YouTube stuff. And I said, what about it? How was the food in Italy where you're just blown away? He said, I was disappointed out.

I said, you were? And he said, yeah. He said, we put way more spices than things in America. And so when I ate it, it just tasted bland to me, you know, compared to what he cooks in the way American Italians cook. And so it was really funny because, you know, you build something up in your mind. He's never been back to Italy. And, you know, we had a great time on the trip.

But he was like deflated, you know, because he was like, I was expecting so much more. And I said, well, that shows you that sometimes you can build something up in your mind and have an expectation of what it's going to be like. But really what you're doing in your own kitchen is pretty good. I was like, you know, don't let it deflate you and depress you, Joe. Just keep cooking a good Italian food. Okay. For humor purposes, what are the two mystical animals of the Bible?

And I happen to know this. The two mystical animals of the Bible? Yeah. Oh, I don't stump the scholar here. Well, there's the, what's the one they say as a dinosaur? The Leviathan? Leviathan, that's one now. That's Psalm 74.

So Job is mentioned that Joe. 14, it says it was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert. Some people have said it's a dragon, it's a dinosaur, it's giant crocodile. So in our world of technology, I'm going to read the AI definition of Leviathan. You know what AI is, Phil? Yeah. Artificial intelligence. Yeah, I've heard that.

So this will be fun. The Leviathan is a primordial sea serpent and mystical creature in Jewish mythology and the Bible. The word Leviathan comes from the Hebrew word, I can't pronounce that, which means great sea serpent or sea monster in the Bible. Leviathan appears in several books, including Psalms, Isaiah, Job, and Revelation. So what is the other one? I'm going to say Nathlum. What? No, the nephalum.

Animal. Those were, that's like a hybrid. I said mystical creature as in. We were talking about a wildcat. Yeah. So Leviathan, I can't believe you don't know this. And why do I know it? Yeah, that's a good question.

I'm going to look it up, but I don't know how to spell it. I'll go ahead and give it to you. The Behamoth. Oh, yeah. Thank you. Oh, yeah, I remember that. All right. A.I.

Overview, we're only reading this for fun for Phil, is a beast in the Bible's book of Job that is a form of the chaos monster created by God at the beginning of creation. The Behamoth. Behamoth is described as a powerful grass-eating animal that lives in the marsh and is not afraid of the Jordan River. Again, people have assumed that was maybe the woolly mammoth or some things that were kind of more ancient. Bohemoth.

Yes, behemoth. Bohemoth is what most people say. But Jay's usually puts his own twist. That is a twist because I used to when we played ball years ago, which is why I remember these things. And we would face a human creature of ginormous proportions. I would say, look at this behemoth that we got a face, you know, like on the mound. And people would say, what?

And I would say, read your Bible. Well, it's like there were two women. I can't remember the exact context, but you brought this up now from the Old Testament. And their names were Big Thana and Teresh. That was their names. And so when we'd see a couple old gals come by, I'd say, yeah, there's old Big Thana and Teresh right there. That's all in good. I've done the same thing.

I was called Behemoth. That's a behemoth of a man. Or that's a big behemoth. Yeah, I like Beahmonth version. But what I was going to say. I do think it does answer some of the questions that people who I think are trying to poke fun at the Bible. And they're like, oh, what about the dinosaurs? And I mean, there's a couple of references to mystical animals that probably would fall in the lines of the dinosaur world.

Yeah. But interesting. And it's okay if you think you see something that's not conducive to our habitat. that. But we're all so fascinated by it because it's such a family story. It's funny days because I asked Alex because she works for us and interacts a lot with their people that listen to podcasts. And I said, do people like are they, you know, into this discussion we're having about the Black Panther or not? She said, no, they don't care.

That's just y'all. So I was like, moving on. Moving on, I guess. But, you know, it really is interesting that no one else cares about the Black Panther. But we do keep talking about it. I know. No, it's a family story. It's not a family.

There's people, look, every time I'm around people. But you're right. Remember when you said that about the show? All the people that showed up. I was telling you that. People, they think they see strange creatures. But you've got to remember, in our culture of a lot of alcohol abuse and drugs, and you throw all that old age and just the fear of man eyesight, we're seeing things

all the time. There's a reason they make. jokes about people seeing pink elephants outside their way. Think about the, was it Nessie, the Loch Ness monster over in that? We were at that pond filming for our show. And there are people that travel there looking for that, you know, mythical sea creature. I mean, the bottom line is to tie this with what we were talking about on the last podcast is that, you know, we have a certain amount of fear in us because we are mortal.

Yeah. And as people of the wilderness, because that's what we are. I've often had times when I was walking through the woods and I'm by myself and I hear a strange sound. And nobody's looking, but I'm looking around thinking, I just feel like there's something in here that could get me. And I'd say at least half a dozen times, I just took off running to whatever I drove in. I thought, no, I'm out of here, you know. Well, and when you grow up in the woods, like we did, you know, every sound that we would hear at night, you know,

was like, I wonder if that's something that's going to get me, you know. Yeah, it's like, I remember when we were kids, we watched that movie. I think it was called Salem's Lot. Yep. Which a lot of people said, well, why did your parents allow you to watch that? No, they were watching it with us. And then I go to bed and some creature was

crawling on the window after I just watched some vampires tapping on the window. And I was terrified, you know. That picture they had of that vampire in there was, you know, he wasn't like the suave Dracula. He was like a monster and it just had an impact on us. You're right, Jay's. I mean, we never watched horror. My parents were more responsible parents and we didn't do that kind of stuff.

The problem is my parent is sitting here listening to this. You remember that? No, no. We would come to your house, though. Like, I was exposed to things. I mean, there was Friday the 13th. I mean, Jason, uh, Salem's a lot. Oh, that's the one, yeah.

I mean, I, I was like, whoa, it was always an experience. I was a teenager when those slasher movies started. And we lived out in those settings where all those movies were like the setup. You know, you're out in the way out in the woods and, you know, all of a sudden. Well, my parents were more like, let's just watch it together and deal with it right now. and so that's why I've told that story. I remember watching Death Wish at your house. Oh, yeah.

I went back. Zach, we went and watched that for Christmas. What, Phil was there? That was our Christmas Eve movie. And I remember telling my friends there, they were like, well, how did your parents allow you to do that? I said, they took us. It's so funny because all these memories I have, you know, being 10 or 12 years old. Oh, look, my mom, in some scenes she would cover my eyes and in others she would cover my ears.

It was ears, eyes, ears, eyes. It's like let me have the Wonder Woman poster and then painting some longer pants on it. Phil would say, if you ever talk like that, I'll whip your tail, you know. Speaking of feral cats, I mean, it was like feral kids running around. I mean, it was every man for himself. Oh, we were. If you want to see a movie about our childhood, watch the movie, what was it called, war? I told Missy that when I watched that movie,

I was a little emotional about it. She was like, what's wrong with you? I was like, it just reminds him of my childhood. Kevin Costa movie called The War. And those kids going around, if you ever want to see what my childhood was like, that movie was an exact representation of what we did. Whoever wrote that, I need to look into it.

Because whoever wrote that lived our childhood. I mean, there's no doubt about it. I've never seen it. Every day you would get up and you would go explore because they just lived in an area where that's what they did. That's right. And that's what we did. We got up in a rural area in the country. Went out in the woods.

We just, we were exploring. I don't remember anything other than that. We were always on the moon. We built stuff. We built forts. We built all these, you know, every was an adventure. And it was that way when I was even little when we were up in Arkansas, Dad, in Junction City. my whole childhood was like an adventure.

I went barefoot, barefooted for about two years. But that was before Jesus, right? Yeah. I think, I was going to say whiskey was involved. Yeah, yeah, I just didn't wear a shoe. That came on down there when I was fishing out there. You were barefoot most of my child. Oh, yeah, stepping around them fish.

Yeah. You know, they got the ones that, you know, coming off of them so you don't want to step on one. Yeah, I never figured that out. I could remember mom having a light. I don't know what that meant at age. She had a light and a pair of tweezers and a needle. And she would spend an hour picking things out of your feet.

Well, you went barefoot squirrel hunting because it was more quiet. I do remember that. Oh, yeah. So we're talking even in the cold you're out there. You're out there duck hunting barefoot? Well, that's what I remember. When I was a little bitty kid, the first time he took us duck hunting, That was before he came to Jesus.

I mean, it was below freezing. Yeah. And Phil was barefoot walking around. Just a pair of jeans. But I didn't understand the concept of whiskey. I was truly a man of the woods. Yeah. You were a man of the woods.

This is why we all revered you so much. It was like nothing can affect this month. We went duck hunting, you know, one duck season. I remember one season, and I just didn't wear shoes. Yeah. It was right before I repented. Yeah. That's why I brought up whiskey.

Everybody jumped out of the boat, you know, getting walking out and sheds. out of water shooting in the woods, but some of them would look and say, good night of living. He said, he ain't got any shoes on. Well, you didn't have money for waiters back then anyway. I think it was more who's a man battlecraft. Man, that was a walk down memory lane. Yeah, that's what you never know where you're going to go on this podcast.

I just had something popping my head, too. There was, I remember a light, a blue light that the mosquitoes would fly into. Yeah, that was back when they had the zappers. Zappers. Yeah, y'all had one of those on your porch. Yeah, because we had a lot of mosquitoes down the river. Well, and what happened was so many mosquitoes met their death that it actually fried the machine. Yeah, shorted out the machine that we couldn't afford another one.

I've got one on my deck now, but I don't think it's, I don't think it's working. I don't think they do them. I guess the mosquitoes. No, they still do them, but now they do them more. Kind of just catch them. I think they call it more humanely or, well. Yeah. So we're all the all things that we did,

this current process preaching the gospel to people, it's the best. It is. It's the best. Well, that's the point I was bringing up. You're born into a world that's already here, and you look up, and at some point you start asking these questions.

How did I get here? What am I supposed to be doing here? you have a sense of being trapped. Yep. And when you look at all these humanist versions of how we got here, you know, I'm just going to be honest. If that's all you got, it's just a doomsday scenario. Yep.

I mean. I was shocked so much that I said, I'm going to look into what you just told me about this Jesus. I'm going to look into that. And I did. I said, found the world did I ever miss that? I said, man. It changed you and it changed us.

Oh, I'm telling you. So to get us back to our discussion, Zach, at the end of the last podcast, dropped anthropology on us and tried to just, you know, scoot right past it. And so I looked it up, and it's the science of humanity, which studies human beings and aspects ranging from the biology

and evolutionary history, it's interesting that that's part of the definition of homo sapiens, to the features of society, culture, that decisively distinguish humans from other animals. Oh, boy. So that's, if you looked it up in Britannica, that's the definition.

I think they missed that. Well, well, my point was that I was made, what separates humans from other animals is, that's our anthropology, which is at its core, what separates us is that we are made in the image of God. Genesis 126 and 27. And secondly, we're not an animal. Well, we are an animal.

We're an animal. I'm an animal if I hit three home runs consecutively. But outside of that illustration, no, I'm different than the animal. Well, look, when animals, look, when animals start. seasoning their food, I will classify myself as an animal. That's right. Good point. Good point.

But think about this. Well, animals start feeling bad about something. Well, you share, you shared 98% of your DNA with, with an ape, but yet somehow you're profoundly different because you do season your food. You have creative capacity. You have rational faculties. You have the ability to appreciate beauty in the world. There's a, there's a spiritual side.

So we're bodies, but what separates us is that we possess a spirit. Well, what you're saying is, Zach, is that 2% is very important. It's very important. That 2% difference is Genesis 1, 26. I'll give you a definition of what separates us and animals is the word vary. When he created animals, he's like, this is good. This is good. Yeah.

This is good. He created humans. He said, this is very good. Yeah, that's good. So, I mean, I think there's the image of God. We were created in the image of God, which is why I would say we're not animals. No, and Zach is right. The soul, that part, because an animal has, they have a spirit, they have an animating force,

but they don't have that other element that appreciates art and music and creation. And like you said, Jay wants to cook your food and see. and it and just instinct only. And we love animals, which is what makes it so dangerous as humans when, you know, the Bible talks about that they invent ways of, we invent ways of doing evil. Animals don't do that. Animals do by instinct things that they do. But what we do and we get into our basement is, and I've actually preached on this a lot,

is we occupy a position where we're kind of like the animals. We have hemoglobin. We have DNA. We've got lungs and all that. We got all that stuff, but we also are kind of like God. We're not God, but we're kind of like God because we're made in his image. We have a spirit. We have rational faculties.

The ability to appreciate beauty, all that. But what happens is we try to get outside of our existence and we try to become God. But the problem is that we're not God, so we never can. So what we end up doing is going down in our basement. And then we use our God-given rational faculties to invent ways of maximizing instinctual pleasure. And that's when you see all the stuff like in the Bible, the Bible talks about this, but like we can go to very dark places, but we have to use our God-given rational faculties and abilities and our spirit, our image-bearing properties to do it. And so the sin perverts that and it twists that and it changes that.

But going back to our conversation from the last episode, the reason why I brought that up was because we were talking about how to, what do we start with when we start talking about our position as a human in the world? in existence. And we have to start not with the fact that we're sinful, although we are sinful, but we start with the fact that God made man in his image. And then we move to the fall and talk about our sinfulness. And then that paves way for redemption that comes through Christ, which then pays way for restoration, which comes to the Holy Spirit, applying salvation to us, which then pays way for what we're hoping for one day, which is the consummation, what we call glorification, And so that's the process. That's the, that's the, so I just brought that up because we're going to get into some stuff in Ephesians that, you know, we want to set a proper foundation.

And then you're right and Jace brought it up with the idea of flesh, our human flesh, which is inherently good, not bad. And because of the beginning. And he was in Romans when he was talking about that. But Chase is interesting. You brought up Romans because I've always thought that Romans is like the, you know, it's, you know, it's. It's the long detail that Paul goes into about all things. In Ephesians is almost like a little bit of a reader's digest of the book of Romans. It's, you know, Paul goes into more detail in the first three chapters, but really,

the elements that we're reading here in Ephesians are the exact same way he approached the Romans. And it would make sense because, again, of the context of those two situations. Well, that's why I think, I mean, we've gone back to Genesis 2 and 3 here, but when you think about it, God gave. the first man and woman, the power over the animal world and the trees and work in the garden. And he only said, one little rule here. Don't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Because if you do, you'll die. So are you going to trust him when it comes to good and evil? Or are you going to take it upon yourself? Well, when they took it upon themselves, now granted, there was a spirit, force of evil there that had fallen and also made a choice not to trust God. The evil one is present there. And when they did, well, that's what happened. And then that process has repeated itself since that time. All humans, they're given life from somewhere. It is a gift of God. Babies are innocent. That's why when you read verses like the acts of the sinful nature, Galasians 522,

the acts of the sinful nature are obvious. Well, that list there, when you look at a little baby, they don't have any part of that list. None. Right. It also supports why Jesus was so adamant about welcoming children and babies and don't cause them to stumble. I mean, over and over, you see that,

the innocence of their life. but when that commandment came, you know, I'm thinking, where's that verse that says when Paul and Romans. Roman 7. Roman 7. 9 is a very interesting verse. I know this is a deep verse for this early in the podcast, but Paul says, I was alive apart from the law. But when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. So it's a really good question to say, well, how could you be alive apart from law? Because even if we know Paul was during the time period where the law was, but even if you went back to before the law was given. So Adam to Moses in that time period, well, Paul addresses that in Romans 1, 18, 332.

He's like, no, there's evidence that there is a God because of his divine nature and eternal power that all men are without excuse. We usually use that in the area of evidence with the creation, but he was just talking about, no, God made it known there as a God, which is a very practical thing. And there's two different ways of revealing that. One and just what you see, and then one is the revelation he gave us through Christ, you know, which becomes the Bible, the story, who Jesus is, all of that. Both those are revealed. So what we're saying is that just because you were created human doesn't mean you were created sinful. You remember in John 9 when they came up there and a guy was born blind and they said,

well, who sinned that this happened? Was it the man or did he inherit it from his parents? and he was like, neither, which was an answer that they didn't know what to do with. That's right. Because we're like, well. See, he didn't say neither one's sin. He said the consequences you're talking about is not a result of being. It's not a result.

So just because that's true doesn't mean that, yes, once we all reach this age where we understand the law, whether it's your conscience or whether you read it, yes, we're all going to sin. which is incredible that this Bible written so long ago got that right. There's no one, there's no adult that is perfect. They all sin. And as a result of that, going back to Adam's sin, because you're like, why is he bringing up the first Adam? Because when he chose that not to trust God,

then all of a sudden death started raining because you're a mortal being. That's why you also had the other tree in the garden, the tree of life, as long as they were trusting God. I mean, that tree, I'd love to take a look at whatever was on that

because it was keeping them alive. Yeah, there was some property to it that they would have, as long as they were eaten of that, they would have lived forever. Exactly. They would not have aged.

They would not die. So God starts his scheme of redemption, and I mean scheme in a positive way, of bringing people back to him. And he does it through Jesus, which is what the whole first chapter of Ephesians is about. That's why it says in him ten times. Because at the end of the day, he's going to destroy that mortality aspect of human existence. Yeah. by, and cleverly, by Jesus dying. That's right.

And what adds layers even more to the mystery, Jace, is that, and we just get little glimpses of it throughout all of the Bible, is even our scheme of redemption, which we're about to get into in Ephesians 1,3 through 14, is somehow tied to another group of beings that rebelled against God and then were cast out of that realm into our realm, which back to Genesis 2 and 3 had an effect on us. And so, and we don't even know all that mystery yet.

I don't guess we'll know that until we get into the next round. But, you know, even that is mysterious, is that somehow what happened to that race of beings affected human beings and affected our story. So it's really interesting. So I think I'll just read this text and then we're going to go back because we're going to be camped out here a little bit because this is really the plan of redemption. And I would say before I read it, this is probably one of the richest, deepest sections in the entire New Testament. I would just add it's the plan of redemption, more than what I said earlier, and restoration and eventually consummation too.

I think we'll see. So great, great point. It's not just what happened. It's also what's happening and what will happen. I wanted to read one other verse, though, because a lot of people, I think, just say, well, you know, God had to do this because of, you know, punishment or wrath or whatever. But I wanted to read before you read this, I think this is an interesting verse leading into this. This is John 10, Jesus in verse 14, when he said, I am the good shepherd. my sheep. My sheep know me, just as the father knows me and I know the father. And I lay down my life

for the sheep. And then he says, I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. And you see this Jew, Gentile, which is everybody theme being referred to here before he died. And it says, I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. here's the verse we want to get to this is john 1017 the reason my father loves me is that i lay down my life only to take it up again which we know based on everything we're just saying that's where he's going to destroy this this moral problem of and and and having mortality of sin and death no one takes it from me but i lay it down on my own of my own accord i have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again i just thought it's a powerful statement it's like the reason

the father loves me i'm doing this by choice you know god chose to send jesus jesus chose to die and then all of a sudden we get to ephesians and people and we're made in the image of of God and they're like, but you don't have a choice. Well, you can't have it both ways. If we're created in the image of God and he's choosing to do this, because I think the key two words that make sense to this is where he said, that's the reason the father loves me. But it's a tough sell because one of them, many of them,

said he's demon-possessed, raving mad, why listen to him when they heard what you just read? Yeah, they made a choice, didn't they? Well, there's two little words right before, you know, because we're going to talk about predestination, which can be scary to some people, but it starts off that phrase in the second part of four saying, in love. Never find yourself in a position, though, when we get into conversations about things like predestination, if someone asked you, I remember asking you one time, Jayce, do you believe in predestination? And your response was one of the greatest responses ever. you said, well, I bet her it's in the Bible. And I thought, okay.

And that's good. I mean, like, it is in the Bible. So we can't say, well, I don't, I mean, you have to believe in predestination if you're going to believe in the Bible because it's right here in the scriptures. And it's positive. It's in a positive. So let's figure out what exactly it means. All right.

So I've changed my outline heading for myself. Zach has impacted me. It's not just the plan of redemption. It's the plan of redemption. restoration, transformation, and glorification. Now we're on to something. This is the title of this text. That's very good.

All right, here we go. I like it. Here we go. Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. Oh, this was a well thought out. Oh, so good.

Oh, it makes your head hurt. In love, he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ in accordance with His pleasure and will to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the one he loves. In Him, we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace, that He lavished on us with all wisdom. and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will,

according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ. I'm not keeping track, but that's at least four already. To be put into effect, when the times would have reached their fulfillment, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. In him, we were also chosen,

having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of His glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of Your salvation. Having believed you were marked in Him, in Him, with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession to the praise of his glory. Man, what a text. You know, I know we're going to go back and ask the question in just a second.

I'll let Jay Sandel this, but ask the question, who is it that he's talking about, which we'll get to in a second. But I just wanted to point out, you know, last podcast, I mentioned that Galatians 3 passage of the mystery that was being revealed, which is the inclusion of the Gentiles, which is, but look at the language here in verse 10, as a plan for the fullness of time to unite all things in Him and heaven and things on Earth. So you see the oneness that Phil talked about two in Ephesians 4 coming into play here. There's this, you get that picture, that Isaiah 2 picture of like everything coming together,

all types of people coming in. You can see it at the very big. beginning here of Ephesians, and the people that he's bringing in and uniting are the people that are in in him. No, and that phrase, in him and in Christ is so prevalent here that it's very obvious that Paul was making a very pointed, you know, making a point to be able to mention it the way he did. One of the things that strikes me right off the bat just as a way to start this discussion

is I love that Paul begins this discussion by encouraging. including the idea of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit, when you're talking about this plan. I mean, you have to have all three. And that's, again, you think, oh, yeah, we got that. But again, a lot of people don't get that. And they miss that. Right off the bat, he brings all three of the components of who God is into play when we bring in this idea about how we're redeemed, restored, and ultimately glorified. So that was one thing that struck me right off the bat is that's got to be your basis of understanding well i think you you know this is a lot to digest but you realize god's eternal he's all knowing he's all powerful he's omnipresent i mean think of

any other qualities you can think of and so i think we as humans think god created the heavens and the earth and created humans and then we're then he's like Oh, no. What am I going to do? This didn't work. Well, that never happened. I made a boo-boo. Yeah.

He was never surprised. But we in our human form think, oh, I got to do something. What this screams out to me is H-O-E-E. Hope. Well, exactly. Yeah, that's good. Hope is outlined right there. Yeah.

Well, there's no question that God doesn't know the answer. So when you start getting into, well, how this, why, you know, how did he predestined us and who were the people? I mean, Zach said he wanted to know who was the audience. I mean, he says in verse one, to the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus. But I would say that's human beings. Yeah. This is what God's plan was. Praise be to God and Father of Lord Jesus Christ.

He's blessed us in the heavenly realms. with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Just think about that statement, Jay. He's blessed us in the heavenly realms. So we're talking about all this going on on a place that's not even here. Well, that's what I brought up earlier, though, Al. I think when you read verse 10,

when it says to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ, well, I think that's going on now. Jesus is king of kings. Here's the problem, and here's why you said, well, how is there a problem in all this? Because people, because people. Because people.

Because people. Because people. The most stringent atheist. It seems to me, if you just walk behind him or he has to look around like that and you look at the date, 2024, still stand. Oh, what, when this was, what year was this? Well, you figure these were. Well, this was about AD 60 when he wrote it. AD what?

60. AD 60. You say it's still here right in front of them. Yeah, but the problem is, Phil, and it's a good point. But the problem is because people look around whether they believe or don't. And they're like, well, it doesn't look like he's brought everything in heaven and on earth under one heaven. Under one head. So you ever heard of somebody called Jesus?

You might ought to look into him. Yeah, but they're saying it doesn't look like it. Why is there so much evil in the world? all. You know, why is God allowing this to happen? Which, you know what I find interesting? You know, when people question God, they never question Jesus. They always said, why would God have this happen? You know, they never say, why is Jesus? Because they're viewing him as a figure that was here, and he's gone. And we got a way to them to come back. We got to wait on him come back. He has no emphasis whatsoever. That's a good point. And so I'm saying, if you're only reading the Bible thinking of all

these things are going to happen. I think that breeds some misconceptions of what this is saying. Because when you get to the next chapter, all of a sudden, in chapter two, and we're going to wait until we get to chapter two to get to chapter two, but I was just going to say, this is what I'm saying. When you read this, your natural inclination is to say, well, it doesn't look like he's blessed us with all these, but it doesn't look like Jesus has all authority. And so then you start realizing that, you know, this wrath has been poured out. A lot like Romans 1, when you read the first chapter, all of a sudden, that seems a little depressing. Because it's like, well, since people know that there's a God based on creation and his evidence and his divine nature, and here's this

story of Jesus to your point, which is another evidence of God. How come they're not surrendering to him? Because they're like, well, it looks like everything we see is bad. And I would present to you based on Ephesians too, because then he's going to say, as for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, because he's writing to the saints in which you used to live. And when you followed the ways of the world, which I'm making a point to say, these are things that you chose to do once you got old enough to understand good and evil, like Adam,

you started taking to the same tree of saying, I'm going to trust myself in the realm of knowledge of good and evil instead of God. And what do we do? We followed the ruler of the kingdom of the air. 1 John 5 says that. The whole world is under the control of the evil one. The spirit who is now work in those who are disobedient. All of us lived among them. at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts, like the rest, we were, by nature, objects of wrath. And then verse four seems to go back to what he's saying in chapter one, but because of his great love, God who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ, even when we were dead

in our transgressions. So my point is that I think when you realize this wrath, that's coming out like Romans 1 is revealing what happens when you decide not to live in the image of God. That is the wrath of God being revealed. But you could say, and you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth. And it's, it is awesome how many scripture say this. The word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.

Having believed, he's telling them how they are or in for the taking here. You were marked in him with a seal. The promised Holy Spirit. He's a deposit, guaranteeing our inheritance

until the redemption of those who are God's possession to the praise of his glory. So he's telling the ones he's writing to, He's talking to us 2,000 years are right at it on what was said right there. You say, boy, all that came through all of the years. The wars and the people are this and that. You also were included when you heard the Word of Truth, the Gospel of Your Salvation.

Now, I wanted to, in our last bit of time here, I wanted to revisit that thought you both brought up. Zach and Jay's about the wrath of God. I think that's so poignant for where we are here, especially since he gives us this glimpse even before we were created. And I'll make this statement. I've never really heard it before, but I believe there is no wrath of God without first there being the wrath of humanity.

We're looking at what 2,000 years ago said about Jesus Christ. Right. And you can go back even further. It's a long time. You can go back even further, Dad, because when you go back in Genesis, is, and you see sin into the world because of a choice, how long did it take for the wrath of humanity to so consume it that everybody who was alive had every inclination of violence and wickedness

and which brought about the great flood? So the idea is there's no wrath of God without verse there being wrath of humanity, which comes about because of choice. Well, that was the point I was going to make about Romans too that talks about the Jews. you know, under the law. But Romans 1 deals with that time period from Adam to Moses, and he says in verse 18, the wrath of God is revealed from heaven

against all the godliness, wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them because God has made it plain to him. No doubt. For since the creation of the world, same phrase as Ephesians 1. Yep.

for since his eternal God's invisible qualities eternal power divine nature have been clearly seen so that all men are without excuse for although they knew God nor they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him their thinking became futile

foolish hearts were darkened and although they claimed to be wise they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles therefore God gave them over in what they wanted to do. do. He just allowed them to follow their choice of not acknowledging the truth of God. And then what

happens? You fast forward this because I know we're out of time. And it's men exchanged natural relations with men, women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. And then it says men committed indecency access, verse 27. But notice this phrase, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Well, there's the answer to this. If you decide to chunk God, what's going to happen?

I mean, I remember your life before Jesus. I pretty much saw the wrath of God experienced by your own choices. And it was all bad. Ruin, misery, wrecked vehicles, running from the law, crazed, you know, ventured. It made 28 years to figure it out.

And so I think that Let's what's being the picture. I know we're almost out of time. Let me ask you this. So is your point here that the inverse of what's going on in Ephesians is the natural blessing that flows out from life in Christ? And then in Romans, one, it's the natural wrath that flesh of life. That's what I think. That's the point.

I see for sure. Exactly. But we are out of time. So we're going to pick up with that thought because that's a big one's eye. Don't forget this. the next time we're back on Unashamed, so we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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