Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 912 | Jase Decides to Represent Himself in Court & Willie & Korie Open Their Own Music Venue

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

Jase has decided that he will head to court and make a case over his recent seatbelt ticket, but he’ll be representing and defending himself! The guys are joined by David Leonard, a Christian singer and songwriter famous for his hit “Great Are You Lord.” David opens up about the strain his father’s ministry was on his childhood and how he dealt with that struggle. Phil reckons that the Bible will be an endless source of inspirational messages, and Zach’s children perform at Willie and Korie’s new music venue and gathering hall in Monroe.  -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. We have an interesting setup today because Zach, you and I have flipped rolls. Yeah. We have you in my chair, which makes you immediately smarter and wiser. I feel that way. I feel that way. And I am zooming in from Gulf Shores. Lisa and I had our first event in Kansas City this weekend and then flew in down here. It was fantastic. She did great. It was kind of our first test, which is really good.

And Zach, so tell the folks why you're in town and kind of what's going on with you. Well, we had our kids. They had a show at the hub. If you don't know what the hub is, what is the hub. Because you spoke there last week. It's one of Willie's. My brother bought a property in downtown. Monroe, him and his wife.

And they kind of turned it into a place where people gather in the name of the Lord. And so, like I spoke on a Monday night, it was just like a venue hall. I mean, I guess it's a, I mean, it's a banquet hall. It's a, I mean, it's kind of an old building, but it's a, it's a great place to have to be able to gather and bring people into a new area in our community. So I think it's a fantastic idea. Yeah, the kids, they played, uh, front of, I was. surprised. You know, the Bible says no man's a prophet is the hometown. So I was wondering

coming back to our own hometown if we would have any representation show up. And it was a good group of people. Now, Jace didn't show up. So I thought you may have been driving through Black Mountain honking the horn waving at me or something. Well, Jason's had some problems lately, is that? Yeah, you didn't show up, buddy. No, I didn't. I had a lot going on this past week. I bet you did. I was there in spirit. And I love it when young people are singing songs about the Lord. Yeah. And other young people are coming in masses to hear them.

So that's awesome. I do have some breaking news while you were gone because you missed our last two pipe. I was actually officiating a wedding owl in Sea Island, Georgia, which is. So you really are taking my chair. I'm taking your chair. You're fully in the owl mode, which I'm proud of is that. Yeah. I'm preaching at church every six weeks.

You're doing weddings? Well, did you hear what happened to me? I heard you got a ticket. Well, yeah, I got breaking the law is what I heard. I don't know. Well, see, this is how it happens. When you take something and you hear and then it spreads like a wildfire. Yeah.

Gossip. The tongue is a dangerous part of the body, James Chapter 3. So now I have some breaking news here, Al, on this development. I mean, I did share the whole story, 15 or 20 minutes of it. And then I had my lovely wife who was kind of pushing back a little bit because she was like, well, you broke the law. You broke the law. She didn't back you up.

Well, she thought it was unfortunate and it should have been a warning. But she was like, you know, babe, I'm pretty sure the guy is quoting the law. You broke the law. What was the violation exactly? Well, this is what the breaking news is here. So at the time that we did the last two podcasts, I was still adrenaline pumping. I just had an altercation with the law. and it did not come out favorably.

So when I left here, I called a lawyer, one of our friends who's a lawyer. We call him Gigi. And I said, look, you're not going to believe this. I just wanted your opinion. And he was like, the more I talked, he said, send me a picture of that ticket because I want to look up this statute. Because what had happened was I was given a ticket for him. What had happened was.

What had happened was, I was given a ticket, if you didn't listen to the last two podcasts, for an improper use of a seatbelt. That's what the man said. And because I had my seatbelt on. But I had it under my armpit instead of on top of my shoulder. And I did an illustration for him. and he acted like, because all of this is recorded, I have since found out, which I will be using that bit of footage,

depending on how this goes. And so the question wasn't whether I had my seatbelt on, it was I using it properly. So my lawyer friend, our friend, he looked up the statute, and he's like, there's nothing in here about this three points of contact for the seatbelt because this man representing the state said that twice. He was just

because I said, where is this written during this conversation? You're arguing with him. Oh, I'm arguing. I brought up the book of Hebrews. I was like, what we... He was preaching, Zach. He got up in church. What we have here is an accidental, unintentional sin. And I looked

at him. I was like, you know what sin is? Well, he didn't respond. And I said, look, in the case of Hebrews, they had this same problem, and they would offer sacrifices, I went through the whole bit. I was like, so in this case, since I didn't know that that was the law,

I think this should be a warning. And he was like, it'll only take a second, and long story short, he wants me to sign this ticket. And I refused at first, just to say, I don't think we understand each other. I was keeping the law. You have brought up a technical.

that's in the statute that I did not know. So anyway, my lawyer friend says, that's not in that statute. You're right. I was like, what? And I said, that has to be in the statute. He kept saying it. So he said, let me look it up and find,

because if he kept saying, so he calls me back. And he's like, he actually was quoting, I found the statute. Yeah. That statute is for automobile manufacturers. They have to have a seatbelt that covers your waist, your torso, and is clicked into...

But you don't have to use it in that manner, or at least it's not in the law yet. Well, so what the statute... My truck does not have the ability to have a shoulder. It's just a... Well, good luck. That's why you need a chauffeur, because if they... They'll see you driving, you're getting a ticket. So that's kind of what the, you know, what the debate was over.

So then it got into this, what the statute says for the ticket I got, it says, A seatbelt must be properly fastened. But then it hit me in that moment. Louisiana has this huge ad campaign. And because now I have declared that I'm going to court. I am pleading not guilty, and I will be in court in October in my defense. How much is the ticket? Doesn't matter.

He said $25 or $30, but I said the one ticket. We could collect $25 or $30, fill, between the two of us to just pay his ticket, save him some time. There's the temptation, but this is about what that conversation, which is why when I go to court, I am going to try to submit our conversation that he filmed. Because I immediately started about being a man of integrity. Because I said, when I, he said you, I pulled you over for a seatbelt violation is how he wasn't. He saw the seatbelt under the arm when you drove. No, I asked him that. He refused to answer because I kept trying to narrow him down.

I said, are you saying I didn't have my seatbelt on? Are you saying there was, I had it on improperly? And I have him on record more than once saying it was an improper use of a seatbelt. I read the statute and I'm like, well, that's debatable because it's covering the three points that he made a big deal about it's under my arm or on top of my shoulder. So I just think, well, this is not right. This is an interpretation, unless there's a bunch of studies showing that the difference in having it under your arm on top of it,

we're fixed to fight this. I mean, because their slogan, the Louisiana slogan is, click it or tick it. And my closing argument will be, I clicked it and still got a ticket. This is America. Phil, what's your take on this? It does encourage one to let someone else drive and you just...

Well, you need a chauffeur man. Here's my point. I just got out of that business. Well, my point is if you're going to... That's what you don't drive. If that statute is going to be on my ticket saying that's where I messed up, we either need to go to Congress and change legislation and be a little more detailed in what that means.

They should say click it or ticket, maybe. Well, that's what I mean. And so I just think an injustice has been done here. And you can't argue one statute and then give me a ticket for another one. That's what got me riled up because then I thought, this is not right. So I had this one lawyer back me up. And he recommended, not as my, it's not like I retained him. He's a buddy of mine.

But he said, in this case, in my opinion, he said, I really think you have a strong argument here. Are you going to bring an attorney? Oh, no, I'll be representing myself. So then, but I thought, you know, let's get a second opinion. So I know another lawyer. I talked to him, have a conversation. He was like, eh, at first he was pushing back. He's like, I don't know.

He comes back after he read the statutes, and he said, you know, I think you're right. They either need to change this legislation or this is what happened to you should not have happened. He said, I think you should. You've exposed a loophole, though. I think you'll get out of it. Because you have exposed a loophole. There's no loophole. There's no, I'm not looking for a loophole.

The man was applying. I don't make all. automobiles. All right, that's a different issue. I said, I have my seatbelt on, and he started quoting a statute that does not apply to me. There's where the injustice happened, right there. So, Zach, I knew. So first of all, so I mentioned this on the podcast, you weren't on it.

So I'm going to bring it up again so you're here for me. Jay sends me a text at 934, which is 26 minutes before we're going to record the podcast, which I was thinking he still had time to get there, but he said, I'll be late. I've been pulled over by the police. He texted that while the officer was there waiting to talk to him. So what I know is Jace was prepared for a fight, number one. Number two is when he went to the Bible, I knew it was on.

This is on like donkey. This is Paul going to Rome to appeal to Caesar. That's where we are now with Jason. Well, that was my point. Look, when he said I did a seatbelt violation, And I was like, oh, I have my seatbelt on. I will demonstrate that for you. Because I was thinking my truck is raised.

Yeah. My windows are tinted. In the back of my mind, I was thinking, how could you really see that? Anyway, I didn't even know where he was. Yeah, he didn't see it. And so I said, come, I'll show you. And so when I sat down, my bag with my Bible is in the passenger seat. And I said, look, my Bible is right there.

And so that's when I asked him, are you saying I didn't have my seatbelt on? I said, because we can get the Bible out and swear me in right here. Because I am trying to get men and women across the world, millions of people, to be people of integrity in the name of Jesus. And so I was like, if you want to question my integrity, we need to talk about that. If there's something else I've done, which there was something else, it was an improper use of a seatbelt. Once he went down that road, I was like, okay, I didn't bring the Bible back up until he

wanted me to sign that because then I thought, it's spiritual attacks. You're walking day apostle Paul. I mean, this is that. That's what I said. Walk a day, Apostle Paul. You got to fight for it. Are we going to speak truth to the powers that be or are we not? I said, I violated the three-point automobile manufacturer's

that he was saying in that I had this, what, three inches below where it was, even though it was accomplishing the same thing. I wrote it off as an accidental sin, unintentional. I thought a warning would suffice. That's called a sin of omission, I believe. What was that? Sins of omission. It was an omission.

I chose to wear it in a... If you didn't know it was a sin. That's what I had no. I was like, this can't be a law. I kept saying that. I mean, once we get to the footage, hopefully in the court. Once we get to the footage, I was like,

this can't be right. I kept saying that. I was like, there's no way this is right. I'm curious, if you're listening to audience, I think we all agree justice needs to be served. I think the question is, on who? Is it Jace or is it the police? Well, here's what's funny.

So Mr. Smith there's going to be all ready to go to Washington and worked up, and then they're going to just drop it and say, ah, you're good. Well, the second. The second lawyer said, Jayce, if they get wind of this,

this may go away. They're probably going to get wind out of it because you're talking about it here. And look, Jay's told him. No, I told him. Jay's warned him.

Yeah, I said, look, millions of people are going to hear this story. Was it, do you have a problem? I said,

look, and I quote, do you have a problem with me sharing this encounter with millions of people? And he said, shout it to the world. Well,

okay. buddy. I will see you again in court in October. So stay tuned. It has been shouted to the world. All right. So Zach, we got a, we got a special guest. We do. So we're going to take a break and reset. We're going to let you introduce our guests. So welcome back to Unashamed. We've got a guest on. Zach, want you tell us who we got on today. We got the one and only David Leonard on the podcast today, which is awesome because I met your dad for the second time, but he didn't know it. but I met him for the second time up at Duck Commander. He said, where did he meet before?

I said, I'll tell it on the podcast. So we did college ministry. I think I told you this at the K-Roe Fan Awards. We did college ministry for, I don't know how many years, but you're on David? No, not me and David. Oh, me and my wife, Jill. Oh. At White Street Road.

Oh. You were there. You weren't in the ministry, but you were there. Anyway, we had moved out. Well, you know, we were in a tough season, man, and your music would just ministered. to us, like, in such a powerful way. And so I said, man, we've got to go see, because you were in a band called All Sons and Daughters.

Now you're doing your own thing. We, my brother sent me, Greater You Lord, but did you write that, by the way? Yeah. I mean, one of the greatest worship songs written in the last 50 years, in my opinion. And I just soaked in that for such a long time. I saw where you guys were playing. And I said, look, they're coming to Monticello, Arkansas of all places. I said, that's like an hour away.

Let's go. Let's get the buses. Let's put the kids in there. Let's go up there. So we show up. And I guess your dad was a college pastor as well, correct? Yeah. Was there for 30 something, 40 years?

40 years. 40 years. So we came thinking it was a concert. We did not know that it was an intimate gathering with the college ministry that your dad was doing. So we just like barge in there. And everybody's like, what are y'all doing? Come on in. Y'all are very welcoming.

And it was awesome. that's where I met you, brother. It was in Monticella, Arkansas at the student center up there. Yeah, wow. Yeah, it's pretty special, man. How long ago was that? Oh, gosh. Oh, that would have been 10 years ago, at least.

10 years ago. I mean, you look, 22. I was like, what were you, 12? That's at Arkansas water. That's why I was having trouble making the day. But then we connected at the K-Love Fan Awards last year, backstage, when Unashamed was up for an award. And by the way, we won't.

We got a hanging right there. Got our thing right there. Oh, yeah, that's the first thing I did was embarrass myself because I introduced myself like I had never met you before. And he's like, yeah, we just talked at the K-Lod award. Remember, we were, I was like- A couple years ago. You met a couple people since then. It's in here somewhere.

Yeah. So, David, you're kind of like a pioneer, though, in the Christian music industry. I mean, you're doing all. I jokingly said, I wasn't joking when I said this. You bought a church. Yeah. Started the studio. to which Jay said, I thought Jesus bought the church.

Yeah, how do you buy a church? Jesus did that. So you bought a building. I bought a building. Where the church gathers once a week, maybe twice. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And turned it into a studio?

Yeah. There was a, so I've been in Nashville for, and it'll be 19 years this year. I grew up in Southeast Arkansas, moved out there. So now you're living in Nashville? I've been in Nashville, yeah, for a while. We're actually neighbors. I have a place. I know.

I saw all that stuff, man. That was a crazy storm come through the other way. So that's why I hadn't been there in a while. We're still in the cleanup. Yeah, yeah. Which will be a while. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're down there in Thompson Station and been down there.

You're in Thompson Station? So we did a treasure hunting episode in Thompson Station. Really? I was there three or four days. Oh, yeah, man. We got all kinds of stuff out there. I might have hunted your yard. Well, I hope so.

if you found anything, let me know, though. He wants to get paid. Because I lost it, guaranteed. Don't ask me what it is, but I definitely lost it. We generally get permission, but you never know. Yeah, yeah. No, man, I moved to town. You know, I grew up in Southeast Arkansas doing music.

Not a lot of people were doing music, especially church music. In Southeast Arkansas. And I ended up moving to Nashville and doing the thing. And, you know, I've been there for a lot of years. been a part of a lot of different things. Yeah. And man, just still thankful that the Lord's allowed me to be a part of this community. It's a sweet community.

A lot of people, you know, trying to put words to feelings and stories. And it's a really sweet thing. And me and a couple buddies started a studio, started producing records for all kinds of people. And we end up finding this church in downtown Franklin. and bought it, and now we're flipping it into a studio and going to allow that spirit to continue to flow through it. Yeah. And kind of continue the story on there.

But, yeah, we're really excited. It's been a three-year long journey. Yeah. I've never, I've never remodeled anything, rebuilt anything, and it's not easy. It's not easy. You've got to get permits. You've got to get permits, inspections, all that kind of stuff, and especially in. Franklin they don't make it easy so but the Lord is uh we did a big post the other day of just

getting people praying and man just felt the love people started praying and we passed that inspection past HVAC electrical got us through their drywall in this week so it's a big breakthrough but we're partnering with uh boys and girls club there a organization called franktown there that serves uh the inner city kids there in franklin does a lot of beauty and a lot of good for for that area. And so trying to help build up kids who want to be a part of music and do all that kind of stuff. Man, I love this story. I'm going to give you the greatest compliment that you probably wouldn't think you would get from me. So I'm married to a woman who is very musical. I kind of do the speeches and then she comes in and sings. That's kind of what our relationship was built on. I think the

second time that the second date that we had, I went and listened to her sing and I thought, I need a front row seat to this because I'm in the joyful noise category. And also, you said about not being able to build anything. I'm terrible. She has just a talent about taking something old or deemed useless or ugly and just being able to revive it. And that's what she does. And so it took a few years for me to realize that. I'm more about destruction. Like, if there's anything at our place that needs replacing, I can come in and tear it up.

You're the demo guy. I'm the demo guy. So I was kind of wondering there with that. But when I, Zach sent me some of your music. And so I clicked on, I was playing it. And she came out of the bedroom this morning because she heard that worship music. And it was the greater you, Lord. Greater you Lord.

And she's like, you're having a day. David Leonard on your podcast? I was like, yeah. I was like, what do I need to know? She said, well, let me just tell you something right now. I mean, she got, it kind of intimidated me. She's like, let me tell you something. The bridge in that song is the greatest bridge of all songs ever.

I was like, babe, that's quite a statement. She said, you can tell him I said that. And she's like, and you see people get lazy with it and they don't do what the writer intended. She kind of went, she used a couple words. one of them was synchomatic, synchia. Sure. That sounds musical.

Yeah, she said something. And I'm like, babe, I have no idea what that means. She's like, I'm just saying it's the greatest bridge. But then we listened to it a couple of times. And I'm like, baby, it is really, really good. So I thought you would appreciate that. That was her contribution to that. That's high praise.

And you did a great job on the one about fatherhood. We shared it on some of our social media. Yeah, good man. Yeah, man, that was powerful. I think that one was a perfect, perfect song for the time that we're in right now, just about fatherhood and the difficulty of being a man and leaning on who God is. I mean, where does that come from? Like, where did that come from?

Oh, man. I mean, many years of failing. Yeah. I think, yeah, the last season, the last few years have been kind of an eye-opening season. I think the All Sons and Daughters thing was a, it was a beautiful time for me, but it was also one of those things that was kind of, like I felt like my identity in Christ was definitely placed in the things that I was doing. Yeah.

You know, being a part of a church, we were just worship leaders at this church that started writing songs for our community, and then all of a sudden people started singing them. We didn't expect anybody to sing these songs outside of our four walls, and then all of a sudden they did. Yeah. And I just, I think that season, a lot of my ideas, identity was placing that.

And when all that stuff ended, all that stuff went away, it was all identity stuff for me. I was like, finally in my life, I had success, you know, success. Yeah. It was like the things that I was doing was finally working. And all of a sudden that was gone. It was like, well, who am I now? You know, am I, am I greater than the things that I have been a part of? Is there a God that's greater that can control all of this stuff and not have to be about

the things that you do. Yeah. And he has love and he has kindness for me and grace. And yeah, I walked through a few years of trying to

figure that out. And on the other side of it ended up writing the record out of it. And this song, Good Man, came out of it with just going,

God, I'm going to follow you. Like, and if I'm going to be the leader of my family, you're going to be the person that I keep my eyes on. If they're going to follow me, then I'm going to follow you. and I think that's been the message of the story.

And I didn't know how people would connect with it. You know, it's an interesting thing. If you start to look back on it, if you start to look at every Mother's Day, it's how mothers are, you know, the best thing in the world. Yeah. You go to Father's Day church service. Fathers are the worst thing.

Man up, yeah. Man up. It's always bother me. You know, me. It's every time. And, you know, there's truth and all of that kind of stuff. But for me, the song was going, man, how can I write something that brings encouragement to the men who feel like their failures, who feel like they don't have it together.

And it's been really beautiful to watch, see how people have connected with it and put themselves in it. I think a lot of people identify, a lot of men, I'm sure, identified with that song. But even what you were talking about earlier, we talked about this a lot of, the podcast and we camp out in Colossians too quite a bit but it like even the good things can become idols you know even like what you were talking about like you I mean your your identity in your ministry in your church we talk about even like the gospel it's it we talk about this jason I do a lot that we grew up more the gospel as a formula no it's not a for it's not it's not it's more about the christ of the gospel you know but we want to make it or the word of god as opposed to the god of the

word, like putting him first in that. And I've struggled with that, too. I think we all kind of struggle with this idea of identity. That was one of the things I was going to mention from a song, David, that you wrote called I Believe, which we, I love what you said. We're worship leaders who just started writing songs that other people sang. Because every time I, because I didn't know all the songs that you do person. So when I was going to listen to all of them, Zach sent us over of your songs. I thought, well, we've been singing this one. We've been singing this one. We've been singing this one. And it really is amazing how good songs resonate with good worship. And people just wanting to be able to express that. But in the song, I believe, you said it's not just a story,

but it's a living testimony. And I love that because a lot of your songs are written with Jesus at the core of it, which is what this podcast is about. And so that's so powerful. And with your good man, you also had good Lord, which was the idea you can't have a good man without having a good Lord, which I thought was very powerful. I wanted to see how you get, how you do this, you know. I know you got the greatest book ever. Yeah. So that is, it's kind of the secret sauce of our podcast.

People all the time, they're like, did you ever think, you know, the podcast would take off? And I was like, no. But we are talking about the greatest book. that's ever been here. So that, you don't want to get confused with what the actual draw is. But I was just wondering, you know, how you go about this process. I mean, because you've got to be thinking of, you know, words and there's a lot of scrabble

to this, I'm presuming. Oh, yeah. So. I mean, a lot of it is this right here, sitting around the table, sitting on the couches, drinking coffee, talking about what the Lord is doing in each and every one of our lives. And then all of a sudden you start to see the. common threads. Yeah.

And you start to weave them together. I mean, so is it like bumper sticker threads? It's like in my brain. Could be all of it. Because I'm not the brightest bulb. There's no rules to this stuff. I'm always thinking like Zach will, he'll go off on, he's probably done this to you before. But he'll go off on two minutes of theology and he's using words that I've never heard of.

And so I'll say, what does that mean and what does that mean? Then he'll say a real simple bumper sticker explanation that took eight seconds. He'll say, why don't you just say that? Why don't you say that? So I was just wondering in the writing songs. That's the process. Taking the stuff that no one understands and trying to weave it down to the bumper sticker. Yeah.

So do you ever think, well, this is this too cheesy? Because churches are famous for two cheesy lines because there you have the signs. I'm always attacking these signs. You know, the signs out in the yard, and there's all these cheesy things, you know. I'm trying to think of one off the top of my head. You think it's hot out here? Yeah, you think it's hot here.

You know, I married a hot chick. It became hotter. You know, stuff. You know where I'm going with. I don't think I'm actually. I've never read that one, but, yeah. I've heard that one time. What church had that up?

Well, I heard that in a sermon one time. Church of South Orchitz off. That was that, Sudden Ministry of Montessalon to have that sign. Some guy, though, did that in a sermon one time that I heard. He was like, I married this hot chick only to find out that it was kind of, I think it was in the spirit of Jezebel moment, you know, that basically she was hot because she's headed to hell, you know, and you look up and you're left with hell. That's it.

But why didn't you just say that? Well, because I was doing it off the top of my head. But I was just curious. I'm like, a songwriter, I mean, that just seems like a difficult thing because, you come up, according to my wife, with one of the greatest bridges ever, and you're like, well, great, it's successful, people love it. But then the people you're in business with, they're like, well, do it again. Do it again.

Yeah. Because people do that. Well, I'm on TV a lot, and it'll, it's amazing how a producer will come up. They're like, look, this is getting way to, because we're just being who we are. And they're like, it's getting to just do something funny. Yeah. And I'm looking around like, just do something funny. I'm living my life that you're filming.

What are you talking about? Do something funny. I don't have a compartment here where I can just bring out something funny in this situation. So I was just wondering what that struggle is. Well, I mean, I think the first couple of years, it was definitely living under that pressure of going, we got to do it again. And I didn't do it again. I haven't done it again. I've written songs I'm really proud of,

but nothing that's been to that level. But I had to get to the point where I finally got to the thing of saying, hey, if what we're doing right now, writing this song, right now in this moment, if it's just for right now, then that's it. Like if we create a moment right now for us to engage with God and for us to laugh and cut up. But at the center of it,

we are drawn back to the father and the relationship in this moment. And that's all it's for. And whatever happens outside of this, it's beautiful. But that's the icing on the cake. If I was just sitting here thinking in my practical life, which I lived, even as a Christian, I lived like an idiot for years because I thought Christian music was cheesy,

which it kind of was. Yeah. But my wife kept saying, it's getting better. And she kept trying to lure me into her world. Messages. Well, I think it's gone away from entertainment and gone more to, like, hey, how do we create songs that connect people directly to the father? That was a better way of trying to describe.

You bet you. I remember, so we were trying to inundate my daughter, you know, all our teenagers, just like when we were teenagers, we lose their way. We're trying to figure out what we're doing here. And so we were going through that process with her. And so I would like to always do just drastic, radical things to show her how serious we are about Jesus and her, you know, giving her life to him. And so we flew to Nashville to go to a worship conference. And the, there was a, the band came out and they said, we were working on a new song.

This hasn't been released to the public. And, of course, I didn't even know who these people were, which is embarrassing. Because when I say this song, you're going to be like, wait, what? And they started singing this song about turning graves into gardens. It was the first public release of that song. But when I look back on that, you know, I got teared up because I'm here for my daughter. I mean, and it's awesome. It's all these worship leaders.

And my wife and I were helping a local church in that role at that time. That's how we got in the door. But we were there for our daughter. And, man, I heard that song, and I was like, I leaned over to Missy. And I was like, this song is going to be a hit. And I think that's the name of it, Graves in the Gardens. And I was like, and whoever this band is, they're fixed to become a pretty big, deal after this.

Missy said, they're already a pretty big. They're going to make it. But it hit me. And I remember just another time to share this because since that time I've just, that's all I listen to now. Yeah. I love it because it is that connection. And what we have going on in our lives, you know, we have this little baby that

we're acting as God parents too and like foster parents. And we had Shane and Shane over. And they said, you know, we got a new song here. We're fighting a battle that he's already won. They were in my living room singing that, and Missy and I were just basket cases. And I know they were like,

I didn't realize they were this emotional, but with what we had just gone through through this whole process to hear that song, I was like, yes. They were tears of, like, relief and joy. And I'm like, what am I so upset about? So I think that's what you've done, a really, really good job about.

Well, like, for the last, you know, when all sons and daughters ended, I didn't do the road stuff for a long time. I sat in the studio. I was writing songs, producing songs, all that kind of stuff. So I didn't get to go out and see the connection points. For me, being able to go out and see how it has connected with people, that's the stuff that makes you keep going. Oh, yeah.

Because when you just sit in here and you're writing this stuff and you don't, it's very self-centered. Yeah. Because you just put it out and you just, you're like, whatever, you're on to the next. But when you put it out and you go see the faces, you see what God's doing in the lives of other people, then it fuels you to keep going. That's the beauty of all this stuff to me. It's like this is not just songs. Like this is stuff that actually changes people's mindsets.

They give them words that they can't speak themselves. Songs or message. Yeah. Well, and it's pointing to the message of the Bible, which was Phil's point, which is really the, I was going to say magic, but that's not a good word. It's just the power of what we're a part of. Well, the best songs are grounded in that right there. Exactly.

You have these moments where you're talking, you find the common threads, but if you can tie it back to Scripture and tie it back to the truth, that's the songs that actually create the reason. They minister to you, and they hit different parts of the brain or something. I mean, your spirit. I mean, you just connect with these songs in a way that, I mean, for me, and in the tough seasons, it's been those songs that have really, that I've had to just sit in for extended periods of time just to be ministered to. So I got a question for you, David, that I was saying.

So your dad was that U of A in Monticello? Is that the, so, which by the way, the best mascot in America, in my opinion, is at U of A, Monticello. Tell folks what it is, David. It's the bowl weevil. The bowl weevil. I had no idea. Oh, yeah.

It's a pretty terrifying little creature. He can really damage a crop, you know what I'm saying? It is. I love it. It's so unique and interesting. I immediately go to y'all making a song. There was a meeting one day in a room with probably pretty smart man. Yeah.

And somebody said, Tom, I got it. The bow weevil. And then everybody said, that's it. So that wasn't my question, although that was, I love the bowievel. So you were, I read something about you, about you leading worship when you were 15 years old at some event that your dad was doing and some do with the college. And it struck me because you just heard dad kind of go through a little bit about what our lives were like growing up. I mean, dad bringing us back to Jesus. Once dad became a Christian, he turned into John the Baptist overnight.

And so that's how Jason and Willie and Jeff grew up. And I was just curious as to the way you grew up and being around ministry and, you know, kind of going through that. How has that impacted you in what you do now just in terms of what you gleaned from your dad and from his ministry and all your experiences? Well, I did a lot of counseling over the last few years and talking about a lot of that. because a lot of my perception of God has been greatly dictated by my own perception of my own father, which I think happens a lot of times, which I love my dad. I love what he does. He's served and he's loved people really well.

But as a kid, and they say kids are the best recorders but the worst interpreters. Yeah. So I watched my dad for years and years serve, serve, serve, serve. and being as a kid feeling neglected, like he had time for everybody else, but not us. And so that was my perception of God. You know, God loves me. He's there for me, but he's got bigger, you know,

he's got bigger things going over here to deal with what I got going on over here. So I'm going to counseling. I'm doing all this kind of stuff. And we're going through this stuff. And she's like, all right, well, what I'd like you to do is I'd like you to go back and think about, out of time in your life where you're scared.

And we're trying to piece this stuff together of all this stuff. And she's like, well, go back to a time where you're scared. And I immediately went back to Little League Baseball tryouts. I was always younger. I was always the smallest kid. I didn't ever want to try out. Didn't want to do this. And she's like, well, what happened?

I was like, well, I ended up in the parking lot. I was crying, didn't want to do it. But my dad was there. He consoled me and, like, talk me into it. She's like, well, hold on a second. I thought your dad was never there. Yeah. I was like, well, I guess he was at that one.

She's like, well, think about another one. And so I started thinking about another one. And every single one I thought of, he was at every single one. And I start to look back over my life and I start to see where the things that I thought God wasn't very present, he was part of every single moment. That's good. Yeah. And it's just been, it's been one of those things that over and over again,

the Lord has continued to meet me in beautiful ways. And I'm thankful even, you know, to be able to tell that story to my dad of going, dad, this is what I felt. And he was like, man, it was a beautiful exchange that we even got to have with that interaction. And I'm so thankful for what he's done. He's served there for 40 years. And now he's the lead pastor of my home church, which is crazy. to even think about. But yeah, when we moved there when I was one years old, he was the youth pastor, the worship

pastor, and the college pastor. And so now he's a lead pastor. That same church, been there for over 40 years and just served beautifully. And I'm thankful to be a son. Well, being a pastor dad myself, that's why I asked you that, because, you know, when I look back over the course of my life and ministry and my family, you know, I see some failures that I had, you know, when I went through periods where I was more concerned with the bride of Christ than my own bride. And, you know, I didn't realize in the moment

because I thought I was doing what God, you know, called me to do, but I didn't realize I was leaving some people behind. And so it's been interesting for me to watch my children and now my grandchildren find their own way. And so I would be willing to bet your dad, and I've never met him, but it's probably pretty proud of the way that God is. led you into what you're doing, which is very powerful. Well, I'm not a counselor, but I do have the Holy Spirit. And we have a similar view, you know, about our childhood. Now, I mean, I was, you know, when my dad, before he was a Christian, he's written books.

We did a movie, blind. But, you know, your perception is reality. And so even though Bill changes life, I wasn't given that the benefit of the doubt. So I grew up just perceiving, okay, that's who he is. But what it made me think when you shared that is in Luke 15, you know, the prodigal son gets all the press. But this son that was at the house, you know, who was bitter, didn't want to have the party for his brother. But, you know, Jesus said there at the end, he said, my son, this is 31, the father said, you are always with me. And everything I have is yours, but we had to celebrate and be glad because this brother of yours was dead and is alive.

But, you know, he had that perception. He kind of wanted the blessings of the father without any, you know, kind of relationship. So, you know, and that was, I think, Jesus's point there. There's different ways to be alienated from God. I mean, it's pretty obvious when you're in a pig pen, but a lot of us, I was more like that older brother. who just had a perception and I was, you know, self-absorbed. But we got through that, through the cross of Jesus. But it was, I think it's a bridge that everyone has to cross.

Yeah. And I shared this story before, but the best thing I ever did with my oldest son was after he was gone from the house, married. And he had had a disagreement with my wife, which happens. and I basically just went up there to Nashville. That's where he was and apologized for all the mistakes we had made. I wasn't even addressing the situation, but I just said, look, at some point in your life,

you're going to have to forgive our inadequacies, whatever they may be. And it was a moment for us there. I think he realized, I'm fixed to be a father. We're a father. We're all flawed people. This is kind of how the cycle, goes through. That's why it's important for us all to realize we have the ultimate Heavenly

Father that turns us into the fathers we should be, you know, through the blood of Jesus. So I appreciate you sharing that because I know it's not easy to kind of bear your soul about all the baggage we have, you know. But I would assume it makes for good songwriting. Yeah. Yeah. Vulnerability breeds vulnerability. Yeah. I have seen that the more honest and the more truthful I am with the conversations I have, the deeper I go with people and that that's the real stuff. I don't have time for the surface level stuff. Yeah. Like if we can have deep, real meaningful conversations,

that's the real stuff to me. But I think that's what you've captured and our current climate in the contemporary Christian music world. Because for years, I didn't go down into that world. It's because deep down I didn't want to be vulnerable. Yeah. Because I would say, look, oh, they're too emotional. I mean, God's giving us a Bible.

We don't have to be all serapy and emotional. know, well, he created this to be this one. Well, that's what I did. Yeah. Like, legit, when I moved to town, my, me and my wife were walking through it. I played keys in this little rock band called Need to Breathe out of South Carolina, and we were gone all the time. Like, I would be gone for 40, 50 days at a time.

And this was before FaceTime, any of that stuff. And we just developed individual lives. We were newly married, all the kind of stuff. It was, it was tough. And she started going to this little church. and she was like, you got to come with me this thing when you're in town. I'm going to this small group.

You would like it. And I was like, I don't want to go to a small group. I definitely don't want to hear other people's problems. And they don't want to hear mine. Yeah. And I remember sitting around that group with these 12 people and they started sharing their stories and I immediately started sharing mine.

Yeah. And that's, it was the craziest thing I'd ever experienced because it felt like I saw grace for the first. first time. I experienced it for the first time. It was a real tangible thing I was receiving. No one was judging me for where I've been. Yeah. And I was immediately accepted. And that's where all that all sons and daughter stuff came from. It felt like it came out of a lot of pain. Yeah. And I think that's why that whole album resonated with our family because we were in a lot of pain. And I think, going back to what you said earlier, I think this is important because we got to wrap up.

Yeah, I think this is extremely important that when you write these songs, I mean, the Holy Spirit moves in a moment. And I think when we get too big of thinking what it needs to be, it might just be, like you said, for this moment. But that born out of pain ministers to people when God wants to minister to them through the music that you're writing. And that's a calling, you know, for you to be able to kind of see that, and probably comes with age later on in your life. I mean, what a blessing that now you can actually write in that spirit and be released progressively from that. But we out of time, Al. We're out of time. David, man, it's been a pleasure having you own.

You know, we always know a podcast goes great when it goes about really quick to us. And it went by super fast. We'll have to have you back on. Tell folks where they can find your music and a little bit about you if they're interested in hearing more. Yeah, all the socials, David Leonard music, all the streaming stuff, go streaming songs. go tell your friends, all the things. But I'm just, I'm thankful for you guys to open up the door. Let me be a part of this.

Obviously, I've been a big fan for a lot of years. So I'm thankful to be able to be here today. Same for us, brother. Thank you for coming on. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes.

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