Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 918 | Phil Is Struck by the Courage of a 15-Year-Old Girl & Jase’s Life-Changing Zoom Call

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

Phil is inspired by the courage of a young woman attending his Gospel class, and a Zoom call leads Jase to a revelation he’s impatient to share. A newlywed couple found Jesus and each other at Jase���s Faith, Family, Freedom event, and Al offers evidence of a heavenly “seal” on every believer and what that means practically and figuratively. The guys discuss the creation of sin and who or what is ultimately responsible for its existence. In this episode: Hebrews 4, verse 12; Hebrews 2, verse 19; Genesis 2, verse 9; Galatians 3, verses 26-29; James 3, verses 13-18; Ephesians 4, verses 25-28 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We welcome. We have a couple of guests in house. Nick and Renee, they got married yesterday. So their wedding gift from me as they get to come watch the podcast. And I do want to clarify.

Your father-in-law did their wedding. Really? Yeah. On the lake behind his house. Really? Yeah. He was also the one he baptized Nick eight years ago. So,

I never got the memo on that. I know. I've been busy. Good things happen outside. Were y'all married for the eight years before? No. They didn't even know each other, too. Yeah.

Well, they just, this is a special place. You got a turn alive and you, and a woman. That's pretty good. That's a clean, sweet. Well, she got eternal life and a man.

You talk about benefits. What's funny is we say our studio audience. It's basically. one couch in a corner. Our studio is going to only be three people. So that's all. A love seed. It's a love seat. It's a love seat. It's a love seat. I mean, the site here is basically

a barn. Yeah. Where we're at. Yeah. It's a lot of armaments. Wasp, as we know. We talked about that. Well, you've had some. Oh, I've experienced it. There's brown recluse, black widows, everything in here wants to hurt you. So speak. My call

for these podcasts and it's a tough, tough road. There's just so many of us who have marched off to this group, go to another group. I mean, there's like 25,000 different groups operating under one spirit. When you get to the Book of Feas, there's one spirit, one of the whole one.

I'm trying to get people to come together. I agree. And not be so picky on, we don't believe that. So we're not. Well, I mean, it's just, we hurt ourselves. Right. And it's definitely been one of the great allures of our podcast is that we're not operating under any banner of a denomination or a church.

We're just four guys studying the Bible. Here's what we think. I could be wrong. Well, it's like a woman told me. I was just hoping we would come together as one. Yep. Well, a woman told me at the Faith Family Freedom Event, she said, I've listened to every episode of the podcast. But my response was, well, bless your heart.

That's what I would say. Because I thought, I would say, you don't have a lot going on. No, well. A thousand. Right out. We're actually 918. 918. He said, well, my husband and kids who were standing there, it was a nice little family from Iowa.

And she said, they make fun of me because to do that, I have y'all playing a lot in my life. Right. And so my husband. Four hours a week, yeah. Yeah. And she's like, so they're like, they make, you know, they kind of make jokes about it. But I was more like, well, look, we've come a long way from where we started. just because we're talking about bringing everybody together.

I'm like, well, I'm probably, I would be embarrassed if I listen to some of the things I've said. Jay's is saying that he would already disagree with some of Jace from three years ago. Go back about episode 210 and he's like, I don't even believe that anymore. I'm positive. That is true. I mean, for all of us that speak and do this for a living and do it to volunteer, we can all say that. Well, I mean, what you're getting here is you're, I mean, this is kind of rare because what we're doing is we are actually having a open dialogue Bible study that we're figuring stuff out as we go

along. Yeah. And then we're, and then we're letting people look into that. So it is a little risky, but I think that that's why we always have our caveat. I could be wrong. That's right. That's, that's true. Last night, I mean, I've been walking with Jesus for over 40 years. Last night I was listening to a Bible study. I was listening to a Bible study of a guy I respect, but it wasn't a class, it wasn't a sermon. It was like a, what do you call these things, where they're like meeting, Zoom meeting.

Yeah. It was a Zoom meeting Bible study that a guy sent me to. So they were just having a discussion. but a couple things that came out of it was something I had never thought about before. And so at some point in this podcast, I'll bring it out because it tied in with where we're at in the book of Ephesians.

But it really was exciting mostly because it explained a lot of things that I was unsure about on some scriptures. I thought, well, this is an idea. And it wasn't even the first. focal point of the Bible study. It's just one of the brothers made a comment about a verse. And it's a pretty big verse. But I thought, I have never thought about that. Which happens a lot when you study the Bible. Which, by the way, it's why Hebrews 412, which is

one of my favorite verses. I signed that a lot when I signed stuff is a verse that says the word of God is living and active. And you think about that for a minute. What does that mean? well, that means that it constantly shapes and affects you in a way that you see something you never saw before and all of a sudden it unlocks things in your heart and your mind that make you stronger and make you better. That's why it's living and active. The Holy Spirit wrote it through the work of prophets and people through time. And now here we are. That's a perfect illustration because I've always read that verse to mean. The reason the words are living inactive is because it came from an actual and comes from an actual living being.

That's right. Because at the end of the day, you know, I heard a great illustration one time about this. And if I can remember it. We'll pick a watch since. Phil, you've never owned a watch. Never. Al.

Okay, let me bar your watch. I'm going to do an illustrator. We have a, we have a. by the way jays this watch since we brought it into the podcast is an actual part of a baseball from an actual major league game leasing okay well this will be fun yeah but it's kind of squirley like because not only do a squirley like they can stand on that i'm i'm uh i've never owned a watch no i know but phil guess what i think you're more scurly than me though you pass that on to me because i've never never ever ever.

on the watch. However, because I like watches. I like to know what time of this. When somebody says what time is it, I'm thinking, I don't know, but you never know when he's coming.

I mean, well, see, technically, Phil, even though I've never on a watch, you've never on a cell phone either.

So there's a problem. You don't know what time it is. But I don't, I've never on a watch, but when the cell phones came out, well, it tells you. No,

it's not a problem. What it is, is how to operate on planet Earth. and you don't get carried away with everything but Jesus. I'd rather just camp out right now. Theologically, I agree. I'm saying, I admire you for that.

I was just making a point that there's a clock on the phone, so if I want to know what time it is, I look at my phone. While we're here, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the death of Jesus, I'm pointing my finger at it, the burial of Jesus,

the resurrection, and then he says it's speaking to the sons and daughters of God he said to them go into the world they did because now you know it's 2004 they they got this gospel they got Jesus out there I think the illustration I'm fixing to give is going to be your point so let me attempt to do this I love when dad says why we're there and then he takes us there yeah but I hadn't got there yet. So I was going to do illustration that I think, based on what Al said, because I don't want to lose the point. Going to the world. I feel's not going to let me talk today. Preach the good news to all creation. Whoever

believes in his baptize will be saved. Yep. But whoever doesn't not do that will be eternally condemned. Eternally condemned. So those guys, did it stop? in these days in our lifetime, did it stop? That's it right there, or does that carry on? That's still going on. Still going. Still happening. So here's my point, Phil.

If you took this watch to some place where they were not familiar with what a watch was. So that's the thing. That's familiar, but he just doesn't know what. But you're familiar. But what I'm saying is if you try to. explain this. Now you could you could share how it all comes together and with the cogs and the face of it and you have the little, what are we calling that? The hands. Second hand. And one of them's moving around and you can open it up. You could pop off the back and there's little cogs and things.

Yeah, you could explain all those things to someone who was not familiar with the watch. I'm saying go find a primitive person. Well, when you think about it and you relate that to the Bible, because the same thing happens. We're talking over a thousand years of history all interlocking and some of the great scholars in churches, they're really good at putting all these pieces together and they could tell you the, you know, with a promise to Abraham and how that was fulfilled later and you're just like wowed by all this. But my point is, You could share all that. You could do seminars with these primitive groups of people.

If they don't know what this is for, none of that would matter. You could explain how all this is working. But the number one thing is, what does this do? It tells time, which is a big issue in life. Yeah. There's a thing called time. So that's my point about the Bible. If it's just a book of poems and commands,

and there's some characters and there's history, and it all works together, and there was a nation of Israel, you could study that throughout your entire life. But if you never figure out, well, what was this for? What is this for? Like right now. And so that's my point.

I think when you look at it, at it like that, you conclude, well, this ultimately was written by God to human being saying, I love you and I want to spend eternity with you. If you never get that, it's like you would never understand the concept of a watch if you didn't understand that it tells time. And so that's my point. That's why it's living and active, because ultimately there was a purpose behind it that if you don't get, it's just a book of all kind of things and stories. History and poetry. When I was asked to speak last week, I said, how many in here would like to be baptized

into Christ Jesus, buried and raised? How many of you? And I looked around, and I'm looking at an audience of about a thousand. and I looked around one one 15 year old girl I saw our hand come up I said there's hope here

they hope but that went before the lesson after the lesson about 15 or 20 of them we baptized them on the spot we just we just moved forward and it just went right from the lesson

I was just reading the text. Right. You know, go out and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes is baptized be saved. But also, Phil, most of those people that showed up, they were going to the event. Well, they've been listening to this podcast. Yeah.

Yep. So they've been studying the Bible. Yep. Then look, it was kind of a design here. They hear what this is for, what I just got to say. That was right. That was right. That God came down through Jesus.

And they're like, okay. It's a great thing to watch. when people move from one little girl, but when we was over and we said, there you go, well, we like the little girl while ago. Well, about 20 of them stepped up. I thought, hmm.

Well, and this, to Jason's point, it's about this being something that changes your life, your goals, your identity, all of it. Because I hear people say, well, my life's a mess. What's going on? Well, yeah, I need to go to church and read my body. Bible more. No, you need to know Jesus. Yeah. Because he's who

changes everything for you. Let's take a break. Well, it's got to become personal. I mean, his it's, uh, as you're thinking, as you're reading, is the go forth and whoever believes that it baptized be saved, whoever does not believe will be condemned.

If you preach that, is that still going on or did that somewhere down the vine somewhere? Still going. I think we're still under the, under the, what Jesus said. Great commission, they come. Great commission.

We're still commission. So, Jay, are you going to bounce your thing off of us, or you're going to wait until later? Oh, no, it's going to be a surprise when we get there in the text. When we get there in the text, I'll let you know. There's nothing like a Jay's surprise. He's full of surprises, Dad. He is.

Surprises and suffering. That's what Jay's full of. So what I thought we'd do is get back to the book of it, Ephesians. But there were a couple of things at the end. We kind of have spent most of our time in one three through 14, and we've had some gas stones, so we've kind of had some breaks in between our study. Al, but some people are just going right along. It's like we never left. It's right, right. They're just like following along, which is... You are laughing at me, but I'm actually providing a cliffhanger. I love the cliphanger. Now we're going to be waiting

for that to just, that's surprised. So, and if we never get to this part... Jesus and his resurrection, that's the... That's the old. The ultimate cliffhanger. Yeah, that's the ultimate cliff hanger. That's the one you better zero in on. So this condensed is what I call it, just dense theology that Paul gives us in Ephesians 1 3 through 14. I compare it to taking the book of Romans and squeezing it down into just 11 verses.

It's incredible. And the rest of the first three chapters as well. But there was a couple of things that we didn't mention before I wanted to do before we moved done to verse 15. And one of those was the Holy Spirit. We talked about him, but there was one word in there we never really explored. And I was looking at it the last couple of days. And I thought, man, that's such a great concept.

So he says in verse 13, having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. We never talked about that word seal. And I looked at the Greek word for it. And there's several different usages. of this concept. But think about it in terms of us as people. Seals were used in the angel or this Greek word for several different things.

One of them was to protect or guard. So like in Matthew 27, when you see the seal that was Roman seal that was put onto the tomb, the idea was this is under Roman authority. So you can't get into this without running into problems with the Roman government, right? But think about that in terms of the Holy Seeles. spirit, the idea of protect and guard, which I love. Another thing was to make something official. You see this in John 6th, when it talked about this word used for seal. In other words, when someone puts their seal on something, if you go into the meat market and something

is stamped, FDA approved, that's a seal. That says that this has been vetted. This has been, you know, this is healthy for you to eat, whatever. So again, think about a concept of how that relates to of spirit. Well, and I like that you went with authority because it's like an image. It's like when you have a certified letter, it has a seal. Or like the reason Caesar put his image on a coin. You know, this is the reason it's valuable is because I'm imported and have all authority. Right. This is worth money and I'll let you know how you can spend it. Exactly. And so the idea that the Holy Spirit has that role in your life. Just think about the application.

Well, the authority angle is a little bit of what I wanted to talk about. So this is good. Oh, we're getting there. Also, seals, you think about Revelation 7, seals were used to identify. Remember the seven seals and the idea of identification? Each one was opened. That's another use of this word. So there's an identification that goes with it.

And then the last one you see biblically, seals were used to show ownership, which is, again, this concept, Jase was talking about, with authority. And that'd be like if you, the same word is used for branding a cow. There's a seal. And that means that this cow is owned by this ranch, this ranch or this person, whatever. So all those concepts you see throughout the Bible or the concept of this is what the Holy Spirit is. He has ownership over who we are.

We identifying him. We're guarded, protected. That's that idea of Jesus talked about him being a. counselor and a guide. And then also it's official. God stamped. And I remember when we were at this little church we were at years ago and a brother got falsely mixed up in the idea that somehow you didn't ever, you didn't really get the Holy Spirit. Only the word of God had the Holy Spirit. The only access was when you were studying the Bible. When we all looked at that and thought, well, that goes against everything that the Holy Spirit seems to do. But I remember when he was

preaching a sermon about it. Well, you do get it through the word. Sure. Yeah. But I mean, like, that's the only way you can access Holy Spirit. And I remember his illustration thinking about this verse and he said, I mean, it's crazy. You don't walk around with an HS stamped on your forehead. Do you remember that, Dad?

That was his big point. He's like, well, you're not sealed with the Holy Spirit. You don't have an HS stamped on you. Their life is the stamp. And you're like, wait a minute. He. Well, there's a rule out. He lives in us.

There's a rule that I always follow when I study the Bible is never say something that's the direct opposite of an actual verse. Yeah, that's good advice. Which was our whole point? To a forecasian point, have him believe you were marked in him with a seal the promised Holy Spirit. So if you heard a preacher say, now look, don't get the impression that you're actually sealed with the Holy Spirit.

you're like wait what which which is what always struck me and i didn't realize at the time i was young but later i thought that's exactly what it means and all these different uses of this greek word that's the different aspects of how the holy spirit works in our lives i mean this is an incredible blessing and gift and i didn't want us to we get into galatians and the ephesians if you belong to Christ. First he says, you're all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus for all of you who have been baptized in the Christ or clothe yourselves with him. There's neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, or you're all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Yeah. It's just a soothing

Well, and then also, back to my point, you see Paul used the word spirit of sonship, and that's that idea again. That's what can actually you. And think about this, before I lead this, he is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession to the praise of his glory. There's going to be a time. Makes all of us from all walks alive. Right. Together. So he's a deposit in us to connect us to the heavenly realm, but there will be a time. when we're all glorified fully in the resurrection, and then the Holy Spirit won't need to entw us

because we're going to be right there with him. I mean, just think about that for a minute, how powerful that is. See, right now he's a deposit. But, man, when we realize the fullness of it, we'll know what he knows. So I think I can introduce it here. I was going to wait until we got to the power,

but I think the authority angle is really the point. Because I think to play devil's advocate, people have, the reason the guy had had a problem, in my opinion, of saying you're not sealed with the Holy Spirit. How he worked and all that. Is because, well, how come Christian sin? Yep. I thought God couldn't coexist with sin.

You know, we come up with all these narratives that, so, so, which is a hard thing to explain, would you all agree? Yeah. So. If you miss the Jesus. This little comment, yeah, if you miss the Jesus part, which we have to keep reminding you, the whole chapter, Ephesians 1, I don't know if we ever determine how many times it says in Christ. Well, it says that phrase 10 times, but when you say through Christ and add the others, it's almost 20.

There's only 23 verses. Exactly. And almost 20 times he says in love, I mean in Christ, through Christ. Right, right. And he does say in love, which God is love. Right. So what I was going to say is, but he goes back to the time, as far as time frame, before the creation of the world.

So the little nugget that I was wild with last night just in my study. time. So this is it. This is your... Yeah, I'm going to give it to you. All right, hang on. We've got to take a break. We've got to drag this out for as long as possible. Let's take a break. Well, it's going to take a minute to get there, you know, the actual nugget. But what I was going to say is, because when you get to chapter two, it goes into this when we were dead in our transgressions and sins in which we used to live, when we followed the ways of the world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air. The spirit is who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Well, who is that? Who is the kingdom of the air? Satanic. Evil. Satanic. Evil. Okay. This is going to be good.

You're really going to like this. And this is this going to be good. But you notice he went back to this all started in verse four. before the creation of the world, God chose us in Christ. And now here we are. In love, he has sent Jesus. And people can now possess the Holy Spirit.

And he's like, going back to the illustration of when you're outside of Christ, there's a, you're, what does this exactly say? You're, when the ways of the world and of the ruler of the kingdom. Well, that's an authority thing. He has a power. There's an evil power out there, right? Correct. So here's the nugget.

When I went back to Genesis 1, I'll do the nugget and then say how they, what the context, what the Bible study was. Here's the nugget. It says, and the Lord, this Genesis 2.9, and the Lord God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground. trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Well, the comment, the nugget that I'd never thought about, and then we'll back up and see why this was such an earth-shattering moment for me, was this. The comment was from a very smart man that I highly respect, as a scholar of the Bible who says he's not. But he said, now that good and evil didn't have anything to do with morality like we think about it. And of course, then he went on and made his point. But he also said it had to do with power, the power to create authority.

And I had never thought about that. I thought, what is he talking about? Because I've always read that. And I thought, oh, well, that means they then knew like the list of rules on what you do and what you don't do. But then he made a point that proved what he said, and this is what got me to thinking. He's like, well, every time he created something, what did he say? Good. It's good.

It's good. Well, did that have anything to do with morality, the sun? No, he said, it had to do with purpose. This was God's purpose, and so it was good. He made something else that this was God purpose. so it was good. This was God's purpose, so it's good. Every time.

So he gets to this, and then we think, well, was this not for, you know, when you see good, if you just keep the line, you'd say, well, it was made for his purpose. And so it shows you the creator and the creation under the creator that are supposed to serve the purpose of the creator. He then lays the context in Genesis, too, of the purpose of the man and the woman. Here's what you're supposed to do. So what happened was once I went down this rabbit hole, I realized something. When he said, look, my purpose here is for you to have authority. Remember, he gave them the choices to name the animals, work the garden.

And even the only time he said something was not good. Be fruitful and multiply. Be fruitful and multiply. The only time he said something was not good is he said it wasn't good for man to be alone. And so that didn't suit his purpose. So what did he do? He created a woman. Well, this did create his purpose.

Well, now I think that kind of introduced the love concept in God's purpose. And so the point being is you say, well, why was that such a game changer? Because then I realized something. God didn't create evil. He created, everything he created was good. And so when you start reading James 1, that really made sense to me. It says, be clear, God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone. God has never done anything evil.

He created his order. Humans were involved. And as long as everything went across along his purpose, guess what? It wouldn't have been any problems. Right. Because they had a, even though they were created moral, they had the tree of life to sustain their life. That's right. So here's what happened.

This is my rabbit hole thinking, and then y'all can, you know, tell me if I'm wrong. When Eve, well, here comes the evil one. Well, there's an evil power who obviously this has happened before. Something God has created, the evil one, Satan in the angelic world, has made a decision not to function within the order of God's purpose. Correct. So what happened? A power formed.

inside created beings. Well, he's tempting another created being, who God made for a set purpose and laid out everything and everything would have been great, as long as that would have continued, and lured, tempted, because God doesn't tempt anyone, to partake in this power of creation itself. You create, you can be God.

That's why when you start reading the temptations that Satan was giving, all of a sudden he's like, well, you won't die. Well, they didn't instantly die. So technically Satan was right. But they died because when they were driven from the garden, because they were no longer functioning within God's power, they lost access. Remember to the tree of life? And he said, you'll no longer be able to take of that and live forever. Yeah. So that's what happened.

So that's why when you get to the New Testament, and you have all this about Jesus dethrone, the powers that stood against us, the evil power. Of this dark world. Yeah, that was created within the creation by humans and other celestial beings who would not humble themselves and conform to God's power. And so when God gets the blame for that,

he shouldn't get the blame for that. Never. And that's why when it says in love he did this in Jesus, because think about it, how could you ever destroy a power that is created in creation by the creation? You would have to have something more powerful. Well, the only thing more powerful is actually the creator of the creation, which is why he came in love. Right. And that's why it made sense, because people are like saying, well, how did God create us evil? but once I quit, when I saw that little phrase,

I sin as God's fault, and looked at it as a power, as an authority thing, that you've decided not to live out God's purpose that he intended. And you said, I want to be the power. Well, then it started making sense. You know why? What happened in the flood? Same thing.

All these people are like, they hated each. They have abandoned the original purpose. What happened at the Tower of Bible? they were like, we're going to create our own place. It's the same kind of this self-exaltation of we have the power and authority to create our own world. And so God said, okay, good luck. And what happens?

Sin and death. And so that's why when you see all of this talking about power, because you're going to keep saying power, power. He came to take on the powers, defeat the powers, power, power, power, authority. I was like, okay, I figured this out. Let's take another break. Good point.

All right, Zach, you want to take a shot at that first? That's good. I mean, yeah, I've always, I've heard it said this way, that sin, a good definition of sin is a misdirected or a misappropriated or disordered love. and I love that because so often we do view what happened in the garden as a violation of some arbitrary list of commandments that God gave to test our loyalty, but that's not really what was going on. It is. It's disordered. Here's a good word for you, teleology, that God has a purpose,

intent, and a design for how he has created the cosmos. So everything has an order to it. And when we disorder that love that we have when we, when we misappropriate it to something that's not him, then that is, that's where the death comes from. But in the function of it, and this is the part that's difficult to understand, God gave us the ability.

We take the things that God gave us, for example, God gave us the ability to create. So we have creative capacity. It's one of the ways that we're made in the image of God. God creates and we create. Now, we don't create just like God creates because God creates out of nothing. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

That word create there, it means to create out of nothing. We take stuff that's already been made and then we create things out of it. So I have a table right here that somebody created this, some human created this, but they didn't create it out of nothing. They went and chopped down a tree, took it to the lumber yard, took it to the mill. you know, they made this out of a tree. This used to be a tree. This oak table used to be an oak tree.

So when you're saying that, I was thinking the same thing applies to how we can create evil out of the things that God made good. But that's it. That's what it is. Because look, what you just said, Zach, because something just popped into my head. You know, probably the most uncomfortable story in the Bible happens right after the fall. You have the fall, which now I believe, since last night. I was like, now I really think that Genesis 3 all the way through 11 was all about the fall.

Results of the fall. We want to be our own creators. Correct. And we don't want to function as part of the creation. But then in Genesis 12, well, you have the call of Abraham. And what did he do? One of the most uncomfortable stories is when God says, look, he gives them a promise, and I'm going to bless all generations through your offspring.

He's 100 years old. His wife's 90. It's crazy. But he does. There's a kid that comes out of that through the power of God. And then he asked Abraham to sacrifice him. So the reason it's uncomfortable is like, well, why would he do that? But if what you just said is true and what we're saying is true, I think God did it.

And he asked him do that because there would always be a temptation for Abraham to say, well, look at what we've created. And I think he had to know, you've got to be willing to give him up, because ultimately there's nothing you could have done to fix this. And so ultimately it was God's plan. And I think the test was you've got to realize who's the ultimate creator. Are you willing to do this? Because, you know what, he, because Abraham could think, well, hey, me and Sarah hadn't

got together. That, that, well, and the evidence. The evidence to what you're saying is true is, and you go back and read those chapters in between Genesis 12 and Genesis 22, he gets the call, he believes the call that he's going to have this offspring that's going to be just like the stars in the sky. And then at some point, I think it's in chapter 15, he says, man, if only, I don't have any kids, if only my servant to live under your blessing, Eliezer. Remember he asked God that? And that's when God said, oh, no, you're, you're going to have a son. And then later,

he's still waiting. So he sleeps with, you know, Hagar and creates Ishmael. So he kept trying to intervene his own will and power into God's plan. And finally at the end, guy says, no, this is what I told you. This is going to be the son. That's going to happen when you're a hundred years old. And he has the son. And then the kicker is, he says, now give him up. Well, here's what's interesting about that. Now give him up. And he did. He took him up on the mountain.

His only son. His only son. He's going up the mountain. And he said, I love this line that he says, me and the boy will go up the mountain. And we will come back. Everybody says, we'll come back down. Right. So he, and Abraham's faith, he knew in this moment, even though he was going to sacrifice his son.

God would raise him up. Yeah, God's going to raise him up. Yep. And then when the son's like, where's the sacrifice? I see the wood for the burn offering, but I don't see the sacrifice. I mean, Abraham could have said jokes on you. You are the sacrifice. But he said the Lord will provide.

They get up there and he goes to sacrifice his son. The Lord stops him. He sees a ram caught in the thicket. You go to Hebrews 11 and there's this interesting passage to it. Because we don't know from, I think that's in what, Genesis 22. Yep. we don't know from that passage. We don't know what Abraham was thinking in terms of like his psyche.

How did he rationalize and this promise that God made that I'm going to make you a father of many nations, many people, through this guy, Isaac, and now kill Isaac, because those two things seem like they cancel each other out. And we don't know exactly how he like reconciled that until we get to Hebrews 11. when Paul says that Abraham reasoned, I'm sorry, the Hebrew writer says that Abraham. Were you making a statement? You think Paul wrote Hebrew? No, I don't think that.

That was a slip. We quote Paul so much. We're in Ephesians. He says Abraham reasoned that God could raise his son from the dead. And figuratively speaking, he did raise Isaac from the dead. So Abraham's, he's going into the setting, and he doesn't know how God's going to fulfill the promise. He actually got it wrong. He didn't know that God was going to substitute with a ram. But all of that was a precursor of another substitute. Jesus would be the substitute for our

sin. He would die in our place. Jesus would be the firstborn son that was sacrificed. It's all this imagery in the Old Testament. And so when you were talking. But I'm saying he couldn't have done that. The creator would have had to done what it would have had to accomplish this. Well, yeah, that's where I was going with it, because the natural thing that happens when we sin, when we essentially, we said we're not going with the order that you've designed, God. We're going to do this on our own. Yeah, and let me give a verse for that statement, because I should have said this before. Hang on before you read it.

Let's take her last break. So in Genesis 3, when the evil one comes and said to the woman, did God really say, you must not eat from any tree. Of course, they had them all but one. And the one, if you're looking at it as unleashing power that you can possess to do your own creating, you can create your own power. Yeah, it's like you can create your own world.

It's just Tower of Babel, same thing. And think of all the earthly kingdoms. What do they do? They create their own structures. And if you go try to take them on, just think of wrong. in its heyday and I come up there and I walk up to the wall and all I got is a big rock and I say you know I'm fixed to take on this power well guess what I'm fixed to die

you know it's impossible for man because I'm amongst the created but that's why you have the story of David when he said go get a stone but what they didn't realize is he had creator the one who's with him created all the atoms and molecules and things that you're using by your self-designated power, well, only he could crush that. And so my point is, I'm going down a rabbit hole here, but I'm trying to get to this verse. So when the woman said to the servant, serpent, we may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say you must not eat from the tree that is in the middle of the garden. pardon, you must not touch it or you'll die. You will not die, the servant said to the woman.

Now here's what I want to get to. For God knows that when you eat of it, your eyes will be opened. And this next phrase, because we skip to the second phrase, that's where I had missed this point. I go, well, you'll know good and evil. You'll know the list of rules and what to do. No, it says you will be like God. You've now changed roles. Instead of you being the creation, you're now the creator. And what did we create? We created a power that is sinful, that is evil.

And guess what came out of it? Because you never see the qualities up until this point. guilt happened, shame happened. Immediately. Fear happened. Immediately. Well, did that come from God's creative forces, or did it come from the creation saying they want to be God?

And here was the big lie, verse six. When she saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, by the way, that was said about every tree in the garden. So it just didn't look bad, so it looked good to her. But here's the big lie. and also desirable for gaining wisdom. So many people have tried to know something and know the power of evil

and try the curiosity that kill the cat, they say. Because the wisdom they're looking for is this. That's it. What is he holding out? That's exactly. I want to know what he's holding away from me. So how many times and to Jason's point about... You're going down the same rabbit hole I went down to

because you know where I immediately went when I read this last night? James 3, which... I started in James when he said, let me be clear. God does not tempt anyone with evil, nor can he do so. Yep. It is not. So the question is, to your point in James, who does tempt you? Where does it come from?

But so watch what he goes on to say in chapter three, though. Because when she said, I saw that it was good for gaining wisdom. Well, what does James talk about in chapter three in verse 13 through 8? he talks about two kinds of wisdom. One is earthly and one is heavenly. So on the earthly, it says, if you, verse 14, but if you, of chapter 3, if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition,

what is selfish ambition? That's you saying, I'm God. I'm going to do whatever I want to tell you. And so watch what happens. In your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such wisdom, here's the phrase, does not come from heaven.

That doesn't come from God. It has nothing to do with God. It was nothing to do with His purpose. It is earthly, unspiritual, and of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. Evil has nothing to do. with God. Yeah.

It came from a world within a world that God created. And humans said, let's do it. And I can't tell you just how many people I know and have worked with through the years that stuck their toe in the water of evil to find out what something was about. And then once immersed into that world, the power of evil chewed them up and spit them out to the point you could not recognize who that person was. That's the problem is now because we all do it. We get to that eight.

We all have our tree of knowledge of good and evil moment. It's usually somewhere right around before a teenage year or in the teenage. There's a moment where you say, oh, I got to know about this. I'm going to create my own world. Yeah. And that's what happens. And when you do that, just like I'm not picking on Adam and Eve. They just happened to be the first one.

Well, they did the same. You're like, well, I tell you what, I wouldn't have done that. Well, no, we did. Let's not have to show us to do what God says or not. You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth since Jesus. You were taught with regard to your former way of life to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desire, to be made new in the attitude of your minds.

to put on the new cell, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Therefore, each of you must put off falsehood, speak truth for his neighbor, for we're all members of one body, and your anger don't sin. Don't let the sun go down while you're still angry and give the devil a foothold. He who has been stealing must steal no longer, must work, doing something with his hand. Don't let any unwholesome talk about it. showing you a life of reality. Yeah.

I mean, and what we try to have a problem, and it's Satan. I think this vein, though, it brings a lot, if you look at it this way, it brings a lot of scriptures to light. Like one of them was Hebrews 214,

where it says, since the children share, have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity. Because now we're getting back to Ephesians 1. This was the plan all along that God would send Jesus in the form of a human. And you say, well, why?

2.14. So that by his death, he might destroy him who holds the power of death. This power that came forth once humans and celestial beings decided not to submit themselves to their place in God's creation. When they wanted to have the control, this power developed. And then look, it's the same kind of turn. terminology and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death, which that's what's used. That's what makes great kingdoms.

What are great kingdoms of the earth do? You either surrender to them or they'll kill you. There's no middle ground. And it's all fear, death, even in the form of Judah, you know, it made me think about Judas. You're like, why did, why was that a fulfillment in scripture? Because betrayal is a power of human creation. It's not of God.

He's all about love and relationships and bringing people together. And he said, my promises are true. You never had to worry about me betraying you. Yeah, so guess what? He dealt with that too. Nailed it to the cross. No, it's good stuff. Well, we're out of time, but I think I like the nugget.

I think was it a good nugget, say? Yeah, it's a good nugget. Well, I had a good clothes. Hold that. That's going to be a good, Open. Your clothes will now be our open the next podcast. We end this cliffhanger with another cliffhanger. Yeah, let me just say go listen to at least the first 10 minutes of the next podcast.

I'm going to close this one with the opening of that one. We will open the next podcast with that closing. We'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube. And be sure to click that little bell. to get notified about new episodes.

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