Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 919 | Jase & Missy Chose to Have Kids for One Reason & Do We Really Have Free Will?

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

Phil and Jase get on the same wavelength in scripture to study the effects of love, wrath, mercy, and free will on humankind. Jase remembers what it was like to witness the drastic, overnight change in Phil’s life and how it completely changed the course of his own life. The guys discuss God’s purpose and design for human life as evidence of his existence. In this episode: James 1, verses 14-16; 1 John 2, verses 1-17; 1 John 4, verses 7-18; 1 John 5, verse 3  -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So welcome back to unashamed. And as we've explained to you before, you guys have had a day in between us pontificating on Jason's nugget. But for us, we just finished it. And Zach had a huge big point. But before you make your point, Zach, before you do your open, which was going to be our close, you said a word. You did it kind of quickly about halfway through the last podcast. And I didn't quite catch it. It was another big one. What was that word you talked about? Was God's grace? I used the word teleology.

Teliology. Or telos, for short. It's, uh, I think I coughed when you said it. Yeah, it's, it's intense. Actually, I got it from when I was, used to study apologetics back in the day. And they, there's an argument called the teleological argument that looks at the design of the universe. Well, maybe you should take it back where you found it. Oh, no, no, it's good.

It's good. No, just the word. Just the argument without the word, because all it did was make me cough. Well, the argument is essentially you look at the design in the universe, and if there's a design, then there's a designer. I thought that's where Jay's was going with the watch, because I'd heard that before. But he didn't. He went a different direction. But, Zach, you've heard that illustration before.

You find a watch in the woods. Would you assume it was just naturally. fell together. The blind watchmaker. Yeah, you thought I was going there. I thought you were going there. I think where I went was more clever. Yeah.

And I didn't, that wasn't my idea. I heard, I heard somebody do that one time. Yeah. And I was like, no, what a great illustration. No, I liked your illustration. Yeah. I liked both illustrations. I was just written.

Yeah. Well, but just like you coming to Christ, though, Zach. At some point, you got to realize, what did Jesus do for me? That sounds like everybody understands it, but you'd be amazed. if you go into a Bible class and start asking questions, everybody gives you biblical answers. It's lacking in personal conviction and authenticity, over and over.

That's why I think Jesus, remember in John 15 where he was like, you're my friends? Well, you know, all of a sudden, that's personal. And so I'm just like translating that into our life. if somebody said, who are you? Well, what do most humans do? They say, well, I'm a plumber. I'm a blacksmith.

Or, I mean, what, what? I'm a Republican. I'm a Democrat. Yeah, yeah. I'm so-and-so's son or so-and-so's husband. Everything is like a reference to something else. I'm a Robertson. But just think about how bad that makes us look in Christ.

I mean, who am? I'm a son of the almighty living God. I mean, no matter what setting that you're, you're, I'm Jesus's friend. That's right. People would be like, what? I was like, oh, yeah. You know the guy 2,000 years ago, we're friends. Yeah, I'm part of the unashamed family.

Yeah. And guess what? We're going to be friends forever. Are you interested in this? And that's your, that's what the point of the purpose is, and tell us or design or intent, that the intention that God had in creating us, us was that we would be made in his image and we would bear his likeness and that we would we would our chief end would be to glorify him and enjoy him forever like that that's the that's the chief end of man

that's the purpose that's the intent and i think what we've done that's why i love what you went there with with with um in the last podcast when you were talking about there was a purpose to it and and and they they co-opted that purpose and said no the purpose is said is that is that is instead of glorifying God and enjoying him forever, we want to glorify ourselves and we want to enjoy the fruit for the sake of the fruit. We don't care anything about enjoying God. And that was the big chasm that happened there. You're saying this tidalist guy, or what was the word?

Teleologist. See, that's what I think. I thought he was talking about a golf ball. No, not tidalist, no, tealio. Well, I'm saying, so you're saying, That philosophy was agreeing with what I said. But how would somebody look that up and go down that rabbit hole? I don't know the answer to that.

Maybe we'll need to spell the word and put it on the... Well, I'll say that here's the word I would use. T-E-L-O-S. That's the word tell us. And I think that what we've done when we talk about sin, we typically talk about... We use terms like values, like Christian values. or American values, but I'm like, what does I even mean?

That sounds so subjective. I mean, to me it does. It sounds like you got a list of like things that we believe are good and bad, but kind of like what you were talking about? But what if it's not about what's good and bad in that regard, like, oh, here's the list of things that we think this is good, we think this is bad. These are our values.

It's so subjective as opposed to something that's objective, meaning it's true independent of your perception of it, is what was it designed for? What's the intent? what's the purpose? Because that's the question I think everyone's asking in their, like the inner part of their heart is, is what is my purpose? What am I doing here? And so we're trying to find an answer to that. Well, that was my point, Zach. I was, the original purpose was for God and people to live together. And they had, they had everything they need to to live forever because he gave him a tree. In communion with it. Yeah. Even though they were, yeah, they were moral. The new purpose formed from our perspective is, It was God's purpose all along to reveal his love because God is love, was to send Jesus.

So then when you respond to Jesus, there's a new purpose which comes with a new creation. The creation has been reformed in Jesus for human beings. Yeah, this is where I wanted to go at the end of the last podcast, exactly here. Here's your big, here's your big clothes that's now an open. Here's my clothes that's now the open. Okay. So go back to what you said earlier in the last podcast. repeat it for those who weren't listening.

Jason, he said everything that God made in Genesis, after he made everything, he said, it's good. Now, after he made mankind, he said it's very good. The only time that he said something wasn't good was what, Jase? When Adam was alone. So think about this. He makes Adam, Adam's in the garden, existing in communion with God. You think, that's all you need.

Well, God saw that situation and said, that's not good. And by good, we mean within his purpose. Yeah, within his purpose and plan. So his purpose is reflecting who he is. And God is triune in his nature, which means God's love in his nature, 1 John 4-8. So God creates a suitable helper for Adam. So now you have relationship in heaven and on earth. Communion, everything is pure.

All people are together on earth. There's no division. There's no manipulation. There's no positioning. There's no abuse. Like, it just doesn't exist in the world anywhere. And that certainly doesn't exist in God. Then the sin happens.

Then the disorder happens. And mankind claims authority for his own. And the first thing that happens is you see division. There's enmity between the woman and her husband. He will rule over you and you will desire to rule over him. And so there's division right there. Then the very next chapter, I believe, is a Canaan Abel. Then you have murder.

You have murder. Then you have Noah's flood and the world becomes wicked. And it's just murder everywhere you look. Then you have the first formation of nations in Genesis 10 and 11. But up until 11, though, everybody spoke the same language. Everybody spoke the same language. And until the Tower of Babel. And so then you have the languages are divided, which is further division, and then that's when nations come about.

So then when you get to this, to Ephesians, you think, what's the whole point of Ephesians? Well, we said this in multiple podcasts. It's the new creation. It's to unite all things. In heaven and on earth. Yeah, in heaven on earth. Under one head, which is Jesus Christ. Which is Jesus Christ.

So then you see this whole idea. what's the whole point of Romans and Ephesians? The main point is that you're taking nations, Jew and Gentile, and bringing them back into oneness. So that's accomplished through Christ. And so that's why that day of Pentecost is so important, because what was distorted on the day of the Tower of Babel

was rectified on the day of Pentecost when he brought nations together, everyone's speaking in their own native tongue, their own national tongue, but hearing each other in their own languages. And so you see God's intent is to bring back together. So I love that when we get what you said there, because like sin, disorder leads to division,

it leads to separation, it leads to power dynamics, it leads to nations, and then what happens in Christ? He brings it all back together, right where he started at the very beginning. Yeah, and he does it because of love. That's why when you conclude at the end,

God had no other reason. I mean, I will make you blanket statement. No other reason to send Jesus other than he loved us. Yeah. That's it. That's right. Because love must be shared or it's not love. That's why when he made Adam, he's like, this is not good.

Because how can you love if there's one person? And by the way, the flood that you read about in Genesis 6, 7 and 8, shows you that judgment is not enough to fix this problem either because it got back down to one family. So you'd think if judgment could reset humanity past the implication of power. Right. But we're right back to the Tower Bible when we get to Genesis 11. Where we started. So it shows you again that, and you explained it well, is that that progressive nature of sin.

And look, sin doesn't just stop because it's satisfied. It only stops when it completely destroys. because that's what the power is a process. We talked about this in between the podcast. So I brought up James 1, where it says in verse 13, when tempted, no one should say, God is tempted me for God cannot be tempted by evil. That's undeniable.

He cannot be tempted by evil. So when you hook evil up with God, you've made a mistake. He's above that. His power is so much greater because that power came from within what he created. But he's the creator. That's why when you try to tempt him with evil, you can't touch him. His power of love is infinite. He cannot be tempted by evil.

Right. You can come with him with every temptation that we could think of, but since we're in the created creation. It's not a power that it's like trying to throw a rock at a wall. It's not going to happen. His love is too big for that. But then it defines how the process happens. It says verse 14, each one is tempted.

Here's the key phrase. When by his own evil desire, that's what happened with Eve. That's what happened with Satan. own evil desire he was created for a purpose and that's why when you get into uh you know the ezekiel passage that kind of gives the the the way the evil one lost his place in heaven because he he didn't like being under the authority of god's purpose he said i'm going to do my own thing well there's his tree of knowledge of good and evil moment right and now he's hooked up with another created being which is a human saying

And, oh, I did this. I mean, that's basically what he was. That was the temptation. Which he tried to do it with Jesus in that temptation. Same one. Same one. Just you take over. But Jesus, that's why over and over, Jesus said,

I came here to do what my father had me to do. He humbled himself. He took his purpose in the creation. And he never left it. That's why he never sin. He was never tempted to get outside and be his own creator. And think about the three ways he went at him from his physical desire. In that case, hunger, which is the most basic one we have.

And then he went at him from pride. Why don't you just, you know, the scripture says they're going to save if you jump off the temple. So why don't you do that? No, we're going to go with God's plan. And then the third was just do it with me. Let's just hold hands. We'll do this together. In other words, we can merge.

my power with your power and rule. And he says, no, worship the Lord, you're going to serve him only. So every time the answer to the temptation was God alone, his power, not with Satan. And that really becomes the key to the whole thing. Let's take our first break. Well, that was the thing. It was not his purpose. But, yeah, so the question, I mean, the question is, what's his purpose?

I do think it's fundamentally and most immediately, it's rooted in love. As you said, it's why I've never been comfortable with statements like, I'll give a few of them that I've heard, or at least one, that things like God must display his full range of wrath and mercy in order to be God. And I'm like, well, no, because if God must, think about that, if God has to display his wrath and mercy in order to be God, then what was he before he created vessels to have wrath and mercy on? Was he not God? Absolutely. So, I mean, like, I think we have to elevate our view of who God is and, and we have to resist. I get why when people say this. They get nervous when you anchor God in love, which Paul, I mean, which, I'm sorry, John does it, first John 4-8.

I mean, he does say in the Bible that God is, he is love, first John 4-48. But we get nervous of saying that because we think, well, that's going to lead to some kind of universalism or some kind of, No, it's not. It's not because wrath and mercy both flow out of love. And I know that's a controversial thing to say in some circles. But I think first and foremost, before God is sovereign, because sovereign is how God relates to his creation. It's how he rules over his creation. Sovereignty, that's what it is.

Or wrath. Wrath is how God deals with sin. Mercy. I don't see how this is controversial. I mean, when my kid get old enough to understand. understand the English language, I disciplined them because I love them. I wanted what was best for them. They were not acting in line with the purpose that we had for their life. Yeah, so that discipline, that mercy or that wrath that God displays, that is something that comes into play

in creation. Exactly. That's what happened. We created our own world that did not line up with God's purpose. But love, but love is preexisting because God's trying. So before God creates anything, when all that exists is the father, son, and the Holy Spirit, you know, like, what is he doing? And he's loving himself. But to go back to Al's point, when he said we're marked in him with a seal of the Holy Spirit, well, when you read, what is the fruit of the Spirit, which is God.

It doesn't come from, it comes from Jesus. He poured out his spirit. But when you read the fruit of the Spirit, what's the first word? Love. We have a problem when we disassociated ourselves with God, like we all do. We lost the nature of God, which is love, and so guess what he does? He gives it to us. Which is why I brought up the point about judgment, because a lot of times in the modern era,

we come along and say, well, if we can just make sin bad enough, we can scare people into having a relationship. of God. And you're just like, no, that won't work. We have to choose him. Look, think about it. Why did God put that tree right next to the tree of life? I mean, he put it there. And then he said, look, whatever he do, you don't want to go there because you can't

unknow what you know. And so he gave you the choice, right? You make that choice. I've either. Well, but before the choice is the humility. If he's creator, that means you're not. So there's humility has to. to come before the choice.

God, there's a God, and I'm not him, and he created out of his love a purpose, because love is contagious. It is relational. It multiplies, which is why, when people say, well, why did God create people? Because he's love. And they're like, I don't understand. Because love, you can't have love unless it's between two entities. Two parties.

Why did you and Missy create Reed, Cole, and Mia? Exactly. Love. But now people will misuse the creative ability that God has given us. The very sex act can be used not in line with what God intended. That's why he's all the time talking about marriage is between a man, male and a female. And that's why when Jesus was asked about relationships, you know what he quoted? Genesis 2 24 and 25. Exactly. I can think about this. This is why we have a hard time even in the discussion on sexuality. in the culture, particularly in the church, because the way we're presenting it is this is against God's rules. And what we're not presenting it is this is actually a reflection of who God is. This is the intent, the purpose, the design that tell us. But when you said that fear, the fear tactic is a poor motivation to guilt, you know,

I mean, obviously there's some fear involved in. Obviously, there's some guilt involved in it. Well, we're aware. Right. But I'm saying it's your ultimate motivation. Fear didn't come about until you take the power of creator in life. Fear was, fear was not there at all.

None. My point, though, is that if it's divorced from love, if your pursuit of to evangelize someone or disciple someone, if you detach that from love and it's purely a guilt trip, it's purely a fear tactic, here's why it won't work because of this verse in James, 114. Because what James says, each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire,

his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin and sin when it's fully grown, gets birth to death. The reason why the fear tactic doesn't work is because it doesn't address the core problem. And the core problem is a problem of desire. It's a misordered desire. That's what it is. And so the core of our whole existence, what does any?

even mean to be human. What it means to be human first and foremost and most fundamentally is that you are a being that desires. In other words, you are a lover. Here's that word love again. I'm a lover. So it's not a matter of if I love. It's a matter of who or what I will love. And I'm going to love what I consume and what I consume. I end up worshipping and I become that. And that's the progression. So the goal of- That's what happened in the garden. That's what happened. It wasn't, it didn't start with sin. It started with desire. Yes.

She looked at that. The one thing, said, don't do that. Because there was a power within it that would cause what we have today on the earth. And then it gave birth to sin. Which is back to that James I passage. Then what did it give birth to? Death. Death.

Division. I like the version. I like the version. Let me read this version of it. I hope this is in this version. Oh, yeah, this is the NIV. James 114. But each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.

So the sin, that evil desire is what drags us away. And then obviously Satan's probably an agent that's active in the birth of this desire. But that desire, when it conceives, they actually do it. It gives birth the sin. So you see there. The sin comes after the desire. When does the death come? When did the division come?

When all the nations shooting with one another come? When is the divorce come? When is all that? One of the consequences come? Well, when sin is full grown, guess what it gets to birth to? Death. That's the perression. You know what's fascinating about this passage is then the next passage?

Because he realized what human beings were going to do with this information. they're going to blame God. And so then the next verse says, don't be deceived. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the Heavenly Lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. He chose to give us birth through the Word of Truth that we might be a kind of first fruits of all he created. He basically deals with what happened in the beginning, where it all went wrong, with the creation. And then he deals with the new creation that came from him in Jesus.

Right. Man, think about that right there. If we could understand this, what you just said, that dichotomy there, of the way to death and the way to good gifts. If I, you ever, there's somebody that I used to know, who's wealthy guy, he had a great life. And he did. I mean, you all know, we all know this guy. He's done well for himself, beautiful family. Everything about him is great.

And picture perfect family. And every time I would see him, I'd ask him how he was doing. And you know, he'd say, I'm blessed, brother. I'm blessed. And I thought about that word blessed. Like, what do we want? Everybody wants to live the blessed life. That's the promise here.

Like in Christ, that's why I would Psalms 1. I read this this morning in my quiet time. He says, blessed is the one who does. does not walk and step with the wicked. In other words, he doesn't do the thing in James 114 to follow his own evil desires. Blessed is that guy who doesn't do that or who doesn't stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers. He's not saying, hey, good job, buddy. Here's your treat. That's not what he's saying. He's actually saying that this is the way. Blessed is this guy who doesn't do that, but instead who delights, who desires in the law of the Lord, who meditates on

his law day and night. That person is like a tree planted by streams of water which yield its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither whatever they do prosper. That's the promise. And this isn't the prosperity gospel in the sense that we've heard it preached with health, wealth and prosperity in terms of Mercedes-Benz and free of health problems. But what this is is, if you want to live a life of fullness and wholeness, that life is only found in the rich. is of what God offers you, nowhere else. And that's how you have victory over sin. If sin is like actually better for us and we just got to wheel it away, man, that's a pretty miserable gospel. God's actually offering us a better way of life and our desires can be shaped to desire

him. And that's where I think true freedom comes from. Yeah, and that's where that's where lordship comes in as well. Let's take another break. That idea of making Jesus Lord, You know, part of the practical part of what we're talking about here, when Lisa talks about her life, I love it that she says, you know, I made a decision at 18 years old to make my husband, who she was about to marry me, the Lord of her life. In other words, I was going to be her savior. I was going to pull her out of a past and some difficulties from her childhood and all these different things. But guess what?

Fifteen years later, it crashed and burned. You know why? I can't save people. I'm just a human being. when she made Jesus her Lord, that changed everything not just for her and changed her eternally, but it changed us. And so, you know, a lot of times people out there, you're listening, I think, man, I just, I feel like I'm in this continual rut.

So many times it's just the concept of quit trying to do it yourself or put someone else in that position and just do what Christ told you to do. Once you that humility, James made the point about humility earlier being before a decision, no doubt that's true once i humble myself and say i have no answers for my own salvation and i can't look to other people to save me either that's when i'm finally ready to embrace what jesus has for me i wrote this down i found it uh i did this weeks ago but i never thought it would apply to this conversation but i think first john handles what zach just illustrated this dual idea of love when when it It triggered me when you said, since we were created by God, who is love, we are creatures of love.

The problem comes in is what or who are we loving? And so I wrote this down. So if I give you the ugly first in First John, if I just read these two passages, which this is 1st John 2 15 through 17, it says, love the world or anything in the world. And we, you know, when you see world, you've... Yeah, does that mean the earth? Does that mean... Well, right.

It's used in various ways in, you know, Bible verses. But here we know when he says, don't love anything in the world. He clarifies what he means because he says, if anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him. Right. everything in the world, and here we go, the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes, and the boasting of what he has and does, which is all within that camp of the desire to be your own God, a world that humans and the other celestial beings who were kicked out of God's

presence have come up with, it comes not from the Father, but from the world. The world and its desires, there's that word again, pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. Well, then when you read 1 John 520, it says, I mean, now, 1st John 519, we know that the we know that we are children of God, but then watch this next part, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. So that's the bad things about the world that we created that we want to be God. This is what happened. The whole world's under control of everyone,

and we love it. We love the, you know, you get a big stack of $100 bills in your hand, or you have sex with somebody that's, you know, not your wife. In the moment, you're like, yeah, I love this. But it's all going to pass away. It's fake wisdom. Yeah, you don't have real love.

But now when you look at the positives in First John on what God gave us, so look at First John, to one. It says if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense, Jesus Christ the righteous one. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins.

And not only for our sins, but also for the sins of the whole world, we know that we've come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, I know him, but does not do what he commands as a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his,

word, God's love is truly complete in him. This is how we know we're in him. Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. Because then you're seeing that the reason he gave us commands, it was not because he's some kind of rule-oriented, you know, wanting us to pass a test, but that his commands are what's best for us. We were created for a purpose within his purpose. And a spiritual decision, dear friend, don't believe every spirit. This is in 1, John 4, to your point. But test spirits to see whether they're from God.

Because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is a whole thing that we wrestle with with the help of God. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God. Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the world, come in the flesh, is from God. But every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. That's right. So there can only be one Lord.

That's right. This is a good quote from St. Augustine. He says, you have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rest in you. And I think that's, he wrote this in confessions. And I think it gets to the core of what we're talking about here because there's this disordered, when you're in a disordered, when you're in a disordial. ordered place. And one author wrote about it like this. He said it's like a beach ball.

You're at the beach. You got the big beach ball that you've blown up. And you're trying to shove this thing down under the water. Or maybe you're in the pool at your house or at the hotel. And as you're trying to push this beach ball under the water, what is the beach ball doing? It is violently trying to get to the top. And it's, I mean, I don't care how much weight you put on it. I mean, it is that ball wants to get to the surface.

Why? Because that's what it's made for. The intent, the design, the purpose of a ball filled with air, if you submerge it into water, if you don't do anything and you quit fighting against it, what's going to happen is that it's going to violently emerge to the top of the water. It's going to burst through the water and then what's going to happen? It's going to rest. And so that's a great image of like our life in sin.

When we're living in sin, we're trying to force the beach ball of our life into something that it's not meant for. And that's where all the turmoil and all the anxiety and the depression and the brokenness and the fear and the, I mean, just go down the list, the division, all the things that we've talked about that come with sin. That's what that is. That violent pursuit. Because what's happening is your soul was not intended for that. So your soul was saying, no, this is not, I can't rest here because this is not what I was intended for. Yeah.

But why? Because we were made for God. So I want to take your illustration and take it one more step. You take that same beach ball and you take it to a baseball or a football stadium and you throw it up in there and people bat it from one section to the other and bat it around. That's what happens then in a sinful progressive life is then it becomes at the whim of every other person but you. And it always ends its destruction. You know what happens when the ball winds up on the field and the baseball player comes up with his cleats? Guess what he does?

He pops it. He pops it. And that's the end of that. That's the death. And that's the death. That's it. So here's the thing. So here's what you got to remember.

What were you made for? Yeah. You know, we were made for you alone, oh, Lord. And our hearts are restless until they rest in you. Your intent. Our purpose is in him. Yeah. If what you're looking for.

Hang on, Dan. Let's take a break. You'll say, where do we go from here? So what do we find out here in this world? No one. This is 1st John 4. Oh, I was fixed to read the exact. No one has ever seen God.

Just think about this. Well, Phil, let me read the whole thing. Let's read the whole thing. Look, because what Zach, I was fixed to tell Zach, what you just said is great. Except I would include when you said your soul, it affects your soul body and spirit. Your soul is just the heart is driving it. But what Phil's fixed to read, I want to read the whole section because I think it sums up everything we just said. It does.

If you read 1 John 4.7, it says, dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us. He sent his one and only son into the world that we might live through him. This is love. Not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. Since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. It's just contagious. No one has ever seen God. But if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us. We know that we live in him and he and us because he has given us His Holy Spirit, which is exactly

where this two podcast discussion launched from when you said he put a seal the promised Holy Spirit in our hearts. But then it says, we have seen and testify that the father has sent his son to be savior of the world. Because that's the only person who could save it is the creator. Correct. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the son of God, God lives in him and he and God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. Here it is again. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God and God in Him. And this way, love is made complete among us

so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment because in this world, we are like Him. Now, here's what I want to get to. Which is the opposite of Chapter 2 that you read earlier. There is no fear in love because, but perfect love, drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

That's why I went back to the garden and said, when he said that knowledge of good and evil, and humans chose it, it unleashed a power that then had them setting themselves up as creator instead of in humility being a part of God's creation, capable of love. And then that introduced guilt, blame shifting, division,

all the things Zach said. But it also introduced fear. And it also shows you, Jason, it even goes back beyond the garden. The reason the plan had to be made before the creation of the world is we get that little glimpse in Peter, I think it's second Peter,

where gloomy dungeons and punishment await those heavenly beings that have rebelled against God. So even before we came along, the reason the evil one has such a enmity with us and trying to get us to follow him. Guess why? Because he's punished.

He's out. He is the author of fear, which is the opposite of love. The feel that the feed that comes from him is satanic. Satanic. You can spot it every time. Every time. And once that's the false wisdom, he gets you thinking, oh, man, you need to know this. But think about if you could go back and tell your younger self-dad, just like, once you know

that, you can't unknow it. Don't go there. Don't do that. That's it. Don't follow that path. I think the fact that me and Phil was fixed to quote the identical verse was a sign that we're going in the right direction on this. I just wanted to read the whole section because I'm like, I think it does sum up where we started and where we've gotten to. I think so.

You might not see him and you 100% don't. No one's seeing God. No one's seen him. But when you see people who love one another, you say, that's where you look right there. And it started when Jesus said, if you've seen me, you've seen me, you've seen the father. Yes. Let's take our last break. But Phil, look, when I go back to eight years old and you had this radical change in your life, I was eight years old.

I couldn't spell radical change, you know. But I saw the love of God impact a person. without really acknowledging that. So when you look back on your life, you know, it kind of hits you. You're like, well, yeah, I haven't seen God, but I saw a person. You saw both sides. It's clear. Yeah.

I keep going back. We saw both powers. I go back to that moment. I saw because you, and the reason I think, you know, I don't know why it took me 40 years to kind of get this. By the way, while you're there, did you ever hear me use filthy language the entire time in once I repented. Did you ever hear me curse?

I think there was... After that first year. I think there were a few moments in the first year where you had the battle of keeping the old man dead. Yep. And the new man, which I think Roman 7 kind of covers that pretty well. But the change was so catastrophic.

You know, there's not a word in English language to describe it. but that's what I'm getting at. It's like your being before that really was you or your own God. Most people don't see someone who was that heck bent on being in control. But, you know, when you look at it in this framework, you're not going to tell you were unapproachable. You know what I mean? You were like, I'm going to do whatever.

By the way. And Zach, you made the movie. You helped make the movie. The reason it was so powerful was because in the movie, movie portrayed it so well, because I can remember it. I was a little bit older with you, Dad. You kept searching for what you call was freedom. You kept saying, I got to find my freedom. I got to find my freedom. And in the movie, it portrays it so well. And at the end of the day, when you finally humble yourself,

you know what you said? It's me. I'm the one, I've been searching freedom from me. I'm the problem. I'm the problem. It was the God I chose, not the guy who is. And so when you saw that in the film, that that baptism, there and that newness and that release. I mean, that was the power of it. The first thing I wondered about it when they said, we're going to make a movie about your life if you'll let us. And I'm like, let me think on that one a little bit.

I want to see this crap. What you said that, what you said was, Al, can you imagine the worst parts of your life on a movie screen? I said, no, I can't. And you're right. You got to really decide whether you want to put that. Yeah, that was. Well, I wanted to read this last verse in First John 5.

This is in First John 5, 3. because I think it's so profound and so encouraging that, you know, when you read First John 519, where it's like, well, the whole world's under the control of the evil and what are we going to do? I mean, I don't know. It's just getting worse. It's getting, and we feel that way. And, you know, I'm trying to do right and I just can't. But he makes this profound statement after that incredible thing we just read.

but he says in verse four of chapter five for everyone born of god overcomes the world this is the victory that has overcome the world and look even our faith because we're even in our faith we're tempted to think oh we did this because we're believing no it it overcomes everything even your ability to process what has happened. And it says, who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the son of God. What a statement. I mean, there is a way provided by God and Him alone where you actually overcome the world that we actually created. Yeah. I mean, that's the victory. That's it. That's it. That God provided for. Right. And he becomes then the motivating force for everything we do. Going forward.

forward. That's what changes you. It makes you look different. That's why I back to, go ahead, Zach. I was going back to what Phil was talking about, the freedom he was searching for. And renovation of the heart, Dallas, Willard talks about this idea of freedom in Christ. Because you hear that a lot. I've heard that term my whole life. And I always thought freedom in Christ meant, oh, that's when your sins aren't counted against you because you're free in Christ. And so if someone tries, we came out of a legalistic church, or at least background that, so when someone and we'll try to put some kind of legalistic thing. I'm free in Christ.

I'm free in Christ. But it's really to misunderstand what it means to be free in Christ. And this is what Willard says when he's talking about the only true human freedom. He says it's this. It's doing what you want, whatever you want, God's way. So what does that mean? Well, it means that for the first time we will be able to do whatever we want. Of course, we'll be able to steal, lie, murder all we want, which will be none at all.

but we'll also be able to be truthful and transparent and helpful and sacrificial loving with joy. And we will want to be that. Our lives will be caught up in God's life. And I think that's the picture because we go back to this thing about desire, being the core of it. True human freedom is being able to do what you want to do and then wanting what is of God. Desiring what is of God. And that's why it says if we, if we, blessed it to those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,

for they'll be filled. That's the point that you, when you hunger for what's his, you actually find fulfillment. When we hunger for the things that are autonomous and on our own and our own, what happened in the garden, you know, our own, our own dynamic. We set that up because it's inward focused and it's an inward pull instead of an outward flow, then you just become narcissistic and self-absorbed and you're miserable. and it always leads to division because you always have to prop yourself up and your own consumption above everything else. And it never works. But that's not the economy in the inner life of God. In the inner life of God, it's God pouring out himself, even before creation. Even before God

creates us, what is he doing? He's loving himself. This is why we keep going back first on 4-8. What is love? It's outpouring. It's towards someone else. That's who God is in his inner life. And so our creation, or the creation of us, what that is is it's an overflow of God's love. That's why we were created. We were created as an overflow of God's love. We are a gift from God to God. And when you start to understand that as our purpose, then what we're being asked to participate in, according to Peter, is it's a participation in the divine life, in the divine nature.

We're being asked to come inside of the triune God. He consumes us and brings us in and gives us the fullness of life. But when we try to go our own way and say, yeah, we want that without you. That doesn't make any sense. There is no that without him. And you see the evidence because of what happens? Ruined misery and destruction. Yeah.

Although it seems fun for about 60 seconds. Yeah, it's fake wisdom. So just to give you, we only got a couple of minutes left, but to give you a little bit an overview, because I think it's a perfect place then to get us back into our Ephesian study. Jason, your power nugget is what I'm calling it now, was the perfect nugget to choose between which power you're going to follow. And so Ephesians 1, 3 through 14 lays out the exact plan of God. I mean, exactly how it started, what it looked like, and how he implemented it.

When we get to verse 15, and really in my outline, everybody has different outlines, but mine goes 115 all the way through 210, is then out of this plan, Paul is going to show some provision or proceeds that's going to come your way. In other words, you're not just being given this great pathway to Christ, but then just left here while he's in heaven. Right. He's active working in us. So he's going to give us some things that are going to help us through this process. One is what I call access, which is intercession with him. In other words, because he's going to talk about prayer in these first few verses. The second thing he says is you get power. And he talks about where that power comes from and how it then works in you. And so we're going to talk about that. And then the third thing, which is one of the greatest gifts and abilities he gives us is grace. And that's 2-1-10. And that's a true understanding of what grace is and what it isn't, which shows us that newness. So just so you'll have an arch of where we're going, that kind of becomes the, you know, quick, pro quo or the response that you see in the tech. And it kind of results in unity. We've become

unified in that. And so that's that's kind of where we're going with the study, just so you'll know and appreciate that. But I love it. When you take these little, you know, what do you call them just? Rabbit hole. Rabbit hole. Well, you read something and all of a sudden you're like, oh, wait, all of a sudden, all these other verses start making more sense. But I think, I think our biggest point is it shows you, we mentioned earlier, I think in the last podcast, I mentioned Hebrews 412, and this living active power of what Scripture does. And this is what it does. It shows you how interconnected it all is because you can run after one of Jason's rabbit holes

and go back in Genesis and look like we have at some of that intent that was there in the garden. And look how much it brings forth to life what we're reading here in Ephesus. I mean, that's the beauty of it is the application over and over and over. Ultimately, it was his word. it was all there. Right. You just need to go look at it every day. And all of a sudden, I mean, that's what's amazing about being disciples of Jesus and

sons and daughters of God. He's giving us this book that continually inspires and recreates us every day. So we appreciate you guys being on the journey with us. We love it that we can just put our little, I could be wrongs out there and you're with us on the journey. So we'll help it blesses you. We'll see you next time on Unashame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast.

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