Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 94 | Phil Sums Up What Would Happen if He Saw Jesus

Episode Date: May 28, 2020

Phil, Jase, Al, and guest Zach Dasher discuss miracles, disbelief, deepfakes, and focusing on the Lord of the words instead of the words of the Lord. Phil imagines what would happen if he told the world he saw Jesus. Zach explains why people really come to Jesus. Jase poses a revealing question: Would a miracle change your life? And Al teases a big Robertson reveal on the next podcast. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? I got an email saying that I think they said you said, Al, that Jesus could break the Sabbath because we were in... Where are we at? John, that was in John 5. John 5. Because he wrote the law, I think we had made that point about it was... How weird was that?

They're sitting there accusing him something that he wrote a few hundred years before because God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, you know, they won. Which was obviously not the point because one of the things we've tried to do in the book of John is highlight these characteristics and qualities of Jesus that make Him God. You know, when you eventually get to Colossians 2, all... The Godhead lives in bodily form in Jesus, and you're given access to that. So obviously, when you read a verse in like First Peter, where it says, in him, there was no sin and there was no deceit, if you tried to violate that principle, well, then it would all be for naught. You know, Jesus on a cross wouldn't have meant anything if he had sinned.

That's right. Then it wouldn't have been an innocent sacrifice. So I was just going to make the point even starting off because we're here in the book of John. But you got to remember, it was more about the perception of how he was treating the Sabbath and applying the rules. A lot of that is found in the Pharisees. Which would have been the point. I mean, I could have misspoke. It made it sound like what this person said.

But the point was, because I remember saying, I think in a sermon, and it may be more, but these folks heard it, that you can accuse the Sabbath. maker of being a Sabbath breaker. Yeah. So the point was the people that were listening weren't understanding what the purpose of the Sabbath if they're accusing Jesus who made the Sabbath a break. So I'll interject here, being the oldest man here, what they forgot, what they didn't realize, what Jesus did to that cripple. It didn't make a difference when he did it.

the day does not matter they made an issue out of it because they were not grateful and felt love for the guy who had just been healed he's in a pile he can't even move around for 38 years and jesus in an act of very grateful love for him right say let me let me show you all how you treat you fellow man this one here's sick so and it reminds me of that Romans 13, let no debt, here's what they missed, the lawkeepers, let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to love one another, which is what Jesus did for that poor soul. For he who loves his fellow man, that's what they didn't see. You did that on the Sabbath, so you violated the Sabbath. Jesus said, you don't understand what this is all about. This is an act of love you're supposed to do that every day because watch he who loves his fellow man has fulfilled the

law that's where they went wrong they said well you can't work on you can't do a work on on the sabbath because that'd be breaking the sabbath but they also interjected their definition of what work was evidently picking up i mean carrying the mat was not work that's right which was jesus's whole point So watch. The commandments do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not covet. And whatever other commandment there may be, he's carrying his mat, so they're saying he's working. Whatever commandment there may be are summed up in this one rule, love your neighbor as yourself. He's sick.

I'm going to heal him because I love him. And you don't appreciate what I just did because you said, when I told him to pick up his mat, you said, oh, he violated the law emoji because he's working. Love does no harm to its neighbor. They didn't appreciate the guy that was healed and said, well, man, that's a great thing. Boy, I'm glad you're back on your feet. I mean, good night. You'd think that would be your first line, right?

You would think. Well, but they were thinking you gave us the law. I mean, thank you, God, that he's. He healed you. He is God if he did that. So therefore, love, listen to this, is the fulfillment of the law. You're like, do what? Jesus loved perfectly, but they didn't understand it because the rule.

They made it an issue because the guy was carrying his man after Jesus. Just look at the way they were looking. And they said, to hell with him is what they were saying. to hell with him when I were because you can't pick up that mat the rule says you can't work you're like

Yeah it was their interpretation There was no love There was no love in their heart You know what I found interesting I went to Israel What two years ago And so You kind of lose track of the days

Every day goes by By the way that was Romans 13 I was reading right Good And so We wake up one day And I go The elevator's open

And I'm like, well, this is, well, I went to went to go in the elevator. And there was a guy standing there. And he said, this is for Sabbath observers only. And so I stopped. And I was like, do what now? I mean, because now, here, this is two years ago. And I'm like, oh, this elevator, today's the Sabbath. And he was like, well, yeah.

And so I was like, well, can I take the other one? Even though it's on the Sabbath? And he's like, yeah. Because to push the button would be work. You know. Well, it made me think. So his job was the button pusher? So I deemed he must not be a believer.

That's right. Which seemed contradictory to me. Well, of course, knowing me, because now that whole day was filled with these moments that were awkward because it was the Sabbath. And we have our faith in Jesus. he fulfilled the law on the cross, even though the principle of the Sabbath is good, take a break from time to time. That was what it was initially designed for. It was made for man.

Jesus said one rule. Love your neighbor as yourself. That's the rule. Yeah. So that's what I was trying to follow. But it made me while I was in Israel go read some of the laws because I thought, this is weird that this guy is violating that in an effort for people to get on who's observing the law. He didn't love you.

I'm sure he didn't, Phil. But I mean, I didn't feel like that. He was making you aware of the rude. You were a non-entity. You were, he did not love you. What I should have said is, get on the thing. Let's try it together. But if I had said, do you love me?

He would have called 911. Or their version of 911. He would have. No, he'd have called him. authorities, you're right. And said, this guy, you know, made a pass at me. But so what I found interesting, though, is when I went and read the laws of the Sabbath, well, I can't remember off the top of my head exactly where they were. But it had a little amendment in there where it said, and when foreigners are visiting on the Sabbath, they should abide by the rule of the Sabbath.

Yep. And so I thought, well, aren't you violating that? Shouldn't we all get on these Sabbath? whether we're, but he was like, he was making it so confrontational because he first he was asking you if you believed it. And then he was violating it by pushing the button. It wasn't like he was reaching it. He had a remote control that closed the door. I'm not sure how he was doing that. But I just found that fascinating where I thought, here we are thousands of years later. We're still there. And this is actually worse than what was going on in. John five. Because you've had thousands of years for people to add to the total of everything you can't do,

down to pushing a button or whatever. So that's where we go. It's the same thing in the U.S. Why do we keep writing all these laws, laws on top of laws, on top of laws. And it just is endless. If they had gathered around when they're talking to the dude instead of questioning, what do you say, hey, get to match you can't. If they had to gather around him, said, praise God, you have been healed.

We love you. it never entered their mind. They didn't care about him. They didn't care anything about it. Why are you carrying your mat? Why are you carrying your mat? Well, Jesus represented that. He said, I can walk now.

I can walk. I used to have, was tied to this thing. Put down the mat. Are you going to be struck by lightning? I think the hallmark characteristic of the Pharisee, especially, I was reading this in John 5 here as you guys were talking. It's the same thing you guys were talking about, by the way, I think you guys had a podcast on The Miracle.

and some of the points you made on miracles, and they're like, show me more. Yeah. This is John 539. He says, you search the scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life, and it is these that testify about me and you are unwilling to come to me so that you may have life. And I think that that's the characteristic is they took the things of God, and they worship the things of God over the God of the things. You know, they worship the Sabbath over the God of the Sabbath.

Even the Bible is a great thing, right? I mean, we live by it, but we don't worship the Bible. Listen, we worship. I drove up to a little church building in the middle of the wilderness in South Arkansas. They all came about the same time. There was about 40 people in the church building. The guy walks up and he puts his hand on my shoulder. They've invited me to speak.

They were going way out there. They invited him his speak and he put his hand on his shoulder. He said, well, here's what we're going to do. He said, we're going to sing three songs and have a prayer. Then you're going to speak. He said, that's the way we do it around here. If I had said, why don't you just go four or five songs? He would have reeled back in horror.

You think. I think when he said, we're going to have three songs in a prayer, and we've been doing it that way. He said about 75 years. He said, so that's what we'll do today. Well, there was an old woman sitting on the back seat. Yeah, I think you I get up and preach it. And when I got done, there's anybody who haven't obeyed the gospel of Jesus that would give you, put you faith in. How many responded? Look, no one responded. Okay. And look, but when I told them that, I was ending it, meaning if you want to come forth, to receive Jesus as your Lord.

Today's the time, now is the time. I told you about him. He died for you. He was resurrected for you. He loves you. I love you. So look, and they all, all of them together, they were like this looking at me. And they all turned away.

They turned their head, looking back. So I'm looking at them. And they all looked in the back toward the back. I thought, well, I thought somebody was coming. So I looked up back. Nobody was walking. Nobody had hit the aisle. And I looked, well, I asked that guy later, I said, why would, why was everybody,

they all looked back the other way there for that, for about three or four seconds. I said, what was that about? And he said, they were looking at sister, what he called her name. He said, she's the one. And he said, if you noticed, when they all looked at her, she went, she was saying, She approved this message. Listen to the grave beer. Listen to that one.

It was like the political. Thumbs up. She approves the message. He said, there's a lot of them. It's like this. There's a lot of them said, no. So would they have like dragged you out and thrown you in the river? They put me on trial.

Probably just a simple disfellowship. And that old woman had been sitting back there. But she got the thumbs up. And they ask her about it. They said, well, you think, you know. And she said to them, one of them told me, he said, we ask her about it. What did you think about the old guy? that old Robinson guy.

And she said, I ain't heard her summer like yet since Joey somebody came through there. In 1844, he came through here just before the war ended and said, I hadn't heard one stacked up until he showed up. So you made the cut? I made the cut. I don't know if that's good or bad. I don't either, but I mean, I'm just saying it's a true, true story. And I was a little bit surprised at it.

But I'm talking about these people were. I kind of want to go back and see what happens with the thumb down. You go in there and try to say, well, what about four songs instead of three? I mean, you know. Well, I've told you my approach. I wish we went to in the African American community. They have a tradition that while the preacher's preaching, you're welcome to say, just like in other churches, Hallelujah, amen, but they add a third thing.

Well. Well. And what that means is, is after the sermon, when you're shaking my hand, I'm going to put a thought on your thought and show you the error of your ways because I have a thought that's come to me or a verse and I wish we did that because many times I've been sitting in an assembly hearing a guy preach and I'm thinking well I just I want to just explode well jace there's a label for you in the religious world and you know what it is be careful change agent you're a change agent change agent well that's I was going to say trouble I don't think I've ever gave a sermon

or a class that when Jace was in the audience where he did not come up to me afterwards and add on, which has always been very, I mean, it's like iron sharp and iron. Okay. I'm going to take that as a compliment. Yeah, that is a compliment. But let's take a quick break. Well, Zach and I have concluded, we think a lot of like about the Bible. When he read that John 539, which is one of my favorite verses in the book of John,

because I just think if you were looking for a moment that would clear up a lot, of controversy and a lot of Pharisee spirit today and modern day, that's it. And I thought I had a thought the other day that goes along with what you said is if we could just focus on the Lord of the words, and I mean the Bible, instead of the words of the Lord, there's a huge difference there. And so that's why I always tell people, like when they ask questions about, about what verses should I share or how do I, because you think about all the things we get from doing this podcast,

people are like, well, you give me a list of verses. And I'm like, introduce Jesus the best way you know how. Then the verses will come. Because then it's more real. It's more, you know, I can tell you about my wife and how awesome she is because I'm around her. I'll watch her. She's an awesome person.

Now, if I just tried to make it into an out. line, well, it's just a, you know. It depersonifies. I mean, it's not, it's not about a message, you know, even we've used the term the gospel of Christ a lot. And we don't, it's not the gospel of Christ that saves you. It's the Christ of the gospel. There you go.

See, I'm getting excited. When you start talking about this, this excites me. Because I think it's because a lot of religions, and I don't mean just religions. I mean churches. They feel like God is a million miles away. And when they go into this building, they need to wear their best, be on their best behavior, no four little words. Because we're approaching, we're going to make in a systematic way an appeal to God. Now, then we're walking out, and the life may be the complete opposite, because he's so far away.

even after you just studied the Bible and you read, well, if all those things were true, did he quit watching you when you walked out? Is he not aware of what you're thinking right now, what you're doing? But I really believe people, because I watch them, and I'm like, I think that's how they got. That's not a new thing. That goes all the way back.

It's to remake the temple. This goes back to the tabernacle on the temple, that we go, we approach this holy place, and then we leave and go and go and live. our lives. And so they've just carried that forward. But Jesus, I mean, God told the people in the Old Testament, he was like, he was giving them the same arguments about believing in it, even with a temple setup. I don't want your sacrifices. I don't want your stuff coming. I need you. That's John 4, just one chapter back when that's, that's her question. Think about this.

She had two points that kind of parallel tracks that run in John 4. First, it was the water. And this woman has to go to this well every single week to get water. She fills up her jug, goes home, takes a bath, whatever, cooks with it. But over the course of the week, that water runs low. So she has to go back to the well to refill, which is how we view church, right? We go to church, we get filled up, and then we go and we drain. But what she asked Jesus was, she said, where do we go to worship? On the mountain or Jerusalem, he's like, need a place.

But you know what? You know why she was asking it, in my opinion? Because he got personal with her life and show she wanted to get in a religious discussion, I think so, too. She wanted to avoid. That's where I learned these concepts. Look, I've had people, like, we bring a woman to the Lord, and she's like, you know, well, my husband is abusive and a drunk, and so we're like, well, just be patient, you know,

first Peter 3, maybe he can see in your life. And so finally, when we get him to a Bible study, she's living for the Lord, this has happened over and over again. Well, we start the Bible study, and he starts arguing scripture. Like, well, I don't believe that. And I, well, in the back of my mind, I heard it. Well, right. Yeah.

Well, I don't want to go. Now, what's your church teach about? But I know this guy's life is a wreck. So your theology that you now want to argue about is not making transformation. It's not turning then into you into a change agent in your own life. So you're wanting to argue with me. And so that's when I go to your life. You know, I want to get in his life.

which has, you know, they're pretty profound moments because I'm trying to get him to see there's a difference in arguing about religion and verses and denominations and people who are so attached to God in a real meaningful way that it's affecting their life and helping them make good decisions that are obvious to us. I mean, you claim to be following Jesus and you're abusive to your wife.

That's a major, major problem. By the way, they've made movies and a lot of them on biblical writings. And it may be that people view what's written as kind of like a script, but they forget that how in the world could a group of individuals and you start through these miraculous events and thanks Jesus did, feeding the 5,000, healing the blind, the sick, And then now somebody says, I tell you what let's do.

Why don't we, they're like a cadre of writers, as some people think. Why don't we throw in, he was just walking on water and didn't sink. He's walking on water. How in the world do you dream up one event after the other surrounding a person? How in the world do you dream up all these stories? You're like, yeah, that'd be a good one, walking on what? I mean, you say, wait a minute, there's too many in here. It's divine.

And these people were not geniuses, and this is not a bunch of Hollywood writers. You say, how in the world did they attribute all these things to one person and they just put them in a matter-of-fact way? You know, when the evening came, his disciples were down to the lake and where they got into a boat and they sat off across the lake. well they're preparing you for what's thinking to happen and you say who in the world dreamed that up? Well then you turn the next the one right before you know

Loads and fishes were just going out feeding 5,000 people there's a guy all shrivel up how many does it take before you say did this much just have vivid imaginations? Or is this stuff true?

Well if true you're like I'm investigating some of the things he did and guess what? It's working. I'm beginning to say, I want to be with him. And to your point, Phil, I think that the key distinction between this story and any other religious story out there is the ultimate story is that the person of God condescends and becomes flesh.

You say, now I'm beginning to understand how these things could have happened. This was some being here. The rest of them are us climbing up to God. That's what Jay's just talking about. Jay's they get caught up in a, you know, the... It's a ritual. A ritual. And you say, well, what about the person who's doing all these things?

How could they have dreamed up this many stories, one after the other? And amazingly, why would you have Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and they're all telling you the same stories about the same. person and they all end up and say he died was buried and raised from the dead you're like why say that four times and write that much about just what he did why repeat these stories my answer is so you can't miss it yeah you can't miss and people do and what i find fascinating is a lot of the stories have different details yeah which promotes what controversy and arguments they said well Mark said, Matthew said. You missed the point.

And you get the idea, you get the different flavor. Let's take a quick break. So the reason you have a difference, it's like you go into a courtroom and you have eyewitnesses of an event. And everybody's going to see a little something. Somebody else, maybe from their angle didn't quite see. And so that's why you have a Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. You have four different eyewitness accounts.

And John's, as we've talked about a lot, is to me, the most different because he just kind of comes in right toward the end and gives you kind of the, you know, just this handful of signs and kind of makes this case. Whereas you look at Matthew, it's a little more from the Jewish mind, Jewish mindset. It's a lot in there about law. And he has it a little different take, you know. And so every picture, Luke, you know, gives you this one about he introduces a lot of women into it

and to a Jewish mind. They wouldn't have even talked about this story. That's called an embarrassing fact. There you go. That's exactly right. And inconvenient truth. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, too, you think about the different writers

of the Gospels, it's key to make a point that the scriptures are not dictated. They're inspired. And that is a key difference. I mean, these are inspired by the Holy Spirit, but they're not dictated by the Holy Spirit. And it's why when you read the Bible in its totality, you get a lot from everything that you read in it, because you're right. It's a living, according to itself, it is a living, breathing, spanned over time communication. Yeah. That the Holy Spirit inspired people to write And then the Holy Spirit lives in a Christian. And the same exact principles hold 2,000 years later. Right, yeah.

You say, how in the world could you write something 2,000 years ago and the principles apply perfectly to the generation that's high-tech? I mean, these people, I mean, you talk about low-tech. Right. And here comes this person in a low-tech world doing the things they said he did, and you're looking at it, you're saying, I don't know, where could you? Someone said it would take more than a Jesus to invent a Jesus.

That's right. Yeah, you couldn't even imagine it. Well, they hold 2,000 years later because they point to a person. Yep. What was the word you used? The principles, it's more than principles. The principles point to a person. That's what he's saying here in John 539,

mind that like you you've read the principles you've read the the message you've read the the Bible and they all point to me and I'm standing right here and you're like now we works at the Bible the scriptures they're like they're pointing to me I'm the one that's here in mortality is riding on this on me okay I'll give you a couple examples of that you know we've been hanging out in John five and six and we're fixed to get to seven well in John they don't have the event that happened before John 6, which is feeding the 5,000, and Jesus walking on water.

In Matthew 14, they have, you know, an event that happened that led to this. And you say, well, why am I bringing this up? Because the event was John the Baptist being beheaded, a story we've talked about here on the podcast. But if you go down and read in verse 13, when Jesus heard what had happened, this. This is Matthew 14, 13. He withdrew by boat privately to a solitary place. Because you think, well, why?

This is his right-hand man, the guy that prepared the way. I know that was upsetting. And in that vein. And his cousin. And his cousin. In that vein of having this terrible act happened because John the Baptist had challenged a marriage that was not spiritual or lawful. And it winds up having his head.

cut off in that this is this is kind of what I want to zero in on about the personality of Jesus on why we put our faith and trust in him because you have these two events that we hang our hat on about him feeding the 5,000 I mean it's just like a wondrous thing him walking on the water I'm like yes that's my Lord yes that's my Lord but he did it right after that had happened in verse 14 when Jesus landed and saw a large crowd this is 1414 of Matthew he had compassion on them and healed their sick and then it goes immediately into the same story that we just read in John where he fed the 5,000 then he walked on the water but I just thought you know what that's the difference in him and us and with

something like that happens in my life I've got to decompress I'm mad the last thing I'm going to do is look at other human being, especially if I made them, and have compassion on them and then show these works of God that I'm, you know, I'm for you. People who are paving the way for them and following me are dying over this. Yes, horribly. Horrible. And I just thought, you know, you missed that if you just read John, you know, but you read here and you have another detail that I don't want to say minor.

It was a major thing that it just happened. But if you don't, you know, when you read them all, you start seeing the those qualities come out, and you're like, wow. I mean, what a safe. And you never saw Jesus brooding or blaming because they had taken John the Baptist out. He just went on. He just went on.

He went on with the mission at hand. Another one I thought about was we did a whole podcast on this question from a viewer that was like, did Judas have a choice? And it came from John, where was that? Six. six yeah where it says i guess let's see where was it 65 when he went on to say this is why i told you that no one can come to me unless the father has enabled him because he said he had known from the beginning who was going to betray him and i think i made a pretty powerful argument you know y'all

remember the day i did that about why i thought he had a choice well one thing i didn't read which is in the last verse of john six it says jesus replied have i not chosen you you the 12, yet one of you as a devil. He meant Judas, the son of Simon, who through one of the 12, was later to betray him. I only bring this up because I had another email that they just said, well, they didn't agree, you know, because they heard the podcast and said, well, I don't agree with you. But it doesn't nullify, you know, what we think and what we're saying. But what I'm saying is when you focus on these qualities of God that I think,

highlight who he is when you're trying to focus on the being of God instead of the words. You know, the words are coming in life, focus on the being. Well, something innocent is what I just read when he said, have I not chosen you? Well, Jesus chose him despite knowing he was going to portray him, which is hard to get your head wrapped around. He washed his feet. He loved him, which to me shows the fundamental quality that God. is love. But he also

in that one statement, he said it didn't have to be a yes man. But did it, but in the one thing that I don't know if you notice is he said did I not choose you? We're made in the image of God. And part of that image is he gave us the ability

to choose because guess what? He chooses. He just chooses right every time. And we don't. There's the difference and that's why we're drawn to him. But to me, my point is even in someone sending me an email saying they disagree with me. I just look.

I'm like, oh, well, let me make sure I haven't missed a fundamental quality of God. And I didn't read very far. And I thought, well, that's really hard to get around that he gave us the ability to choose because he has that ability. So let's take another break. And so you bring up an interesting point, Jay, because a lot of times people ask us about, obviously they know we're pretty knowledgeable in the Bible. And they'll say, you know, I just don't know how to,

how to study it or get it like you guys are getting it. And this is a perfect discussion of one thing that we just do naturally. I don't know that I was taught this, but I know that when I study to present it, I want to make sure that I'm presenting it as close to what it says as possible. When you're doing something in the gospel, we're doing the book of John. Every time I hit a section where this is for the podcast, I'm preaching, whatever, I always look, because not every story is in, some of these are in all four gospels. Some are in one, some are in two.

I always read every other account in the gospels of this, we're studying because you're always going to get just like jays just pointed out you're going to get some other things that kind of enrich you and think oh well that makes sense that this makes sense as why this happened john in john six on this walking on the water piece which is where we're at now he just sort of gives a reader's digest version he just gives the really just short version but like jays if you go over to matthew and you look at matthew 14 and understand what's going on in his life because of what had just happened john the baptist because he retreats again and Like he does this compassionate act, he feeds the 5,000, and then he retreats again.

He's still wrestling with this whole thing, with, you know, the feelings of it, the purpose. He's still loving people. And he knows what's going to happen. These people are just going to go around and they're ready for another meal tomorrow because they've missed it, which we'll get into that later. But what happens is, and I don't know this is one of those things where you wonder Jesus' motivation, because you don't always understand exactly what he was thinking in the moment. But this next sign that he does where he walks on the water is almost to me like he's just like, I'm fixing to just, I'm fixing to blow their mind. Like, I mean, you know what I'm saying?

I mean, I'm kind of would feel of all things to think up. That was a good one. I don't know how you could invent the invention. See, sends them out. And so, and I'm in Matthew 14 because it gives a lot more flavor than the John version because I think it's important to look at it from this. version of the story. So evening comes. Jesus is there by himself.

He sent the boat out, and it says in verse 24, the boat was already a considerable distance from land. Jay's kind of described in a previous podcast about kind of what the sea looked like there, which is interesting. It was big, it was like down in a big bowl, a series of ridges. Like, you just go up another mountain, you go up another mountain, you go up another mountain, but you can see the Sea of Galilee, because I remember when we went to the topest mountain,

the top of the highest mountain that we could go, I remember our guide saying, and look over all the hills, and he said there's over 70 terrorist groups that you can see from right this point who have gathered around this bowl of Israel to do this country harm, which was real chilling. But it was amazing through all that,

you could see the Sea of Galilee, So again, which the importance of that is we're imagining Jesus up here. So he sees the boat. And so you get down here and it says the boat is being buffeted by the ways because the wind is against it and obviously very strong. So he's watching them try to make this headway. Now look at this. So in verse 25, during the fourth watch of the night. So that's between 3 and 6 a.m.

That's when this would have taken place. So literally in the middle of the night, Jesus looks down. He sees his apostles. They ain't making much headway trying to get a, I mean, it must have been a pretty good. boogaroo of a storm and he says i mean he does i'm just i'm wondering what was he thinking on this moment then it says he just went out to him and walked on the water so like he looks out there he sees him huh not making much headway it's three o'clock in the morning and he goes down and he just walks starts walking across the water to get to where they are which you know you you know you wonder

what was it i mean he knew what was going to happen obviously but it was just the power of that moment is amazing. And I've always thought when you read something like that, because people, when you said, well, how come there were not more people following Jesus if he was doing miracles, which I've said thousands of times because he was trying to get them to focus on him, the one who can do the miracles. But I think he did a lot of them in ways that were, if you were investigating that, you know, just picture them being, they see the miracle. And then you say, we're going to find out if this really happened. Well, you know, what would happen. They would put them up there and say,

now what time was this? It was 3 o'clock a morning. So you couldn't see real good. Right. Now, there was a storm. Oh, it was raining sideways. You're getting the New York Post, New York Times version. Yeah. How close were you to this when it happened? Yeah. We got these people with some kind of conspiracy

theories about somebody walking on water. And why would he be walking on the lake at 3 in the morning? Who walks on the lake at 3 in the 1? How much sleep had you actually had had you been drinking? Well, there was some wine. Oh, yeah. They had a glass of wine. You're out of the middle of night.

It was stormy. You sure you didn't dream it. So, I mean, I think most people, when they would read that, they would say, Nah, didn't happen. Yeah, come on, man. You can't walk on water. Well, go do it again. All you have to do is to go get him do it right now.

Show us that trick or go us the trick. If you saw it again, then we'd believe you. Then Jesus comes up there and is like, ah, maybe later. Yeah, that's what I thought. I just think that's how they It's never enough. Never enough. It's never enough.

Because there's always a next doubter that says, well, I didn't see it. Well, what about? Or you're like the Pharisees that you say, oh, you're performing miracles. Well, you must be doing that by the devil's power. I mean, that's the, and that's the ultimate right. It's got to be another source.

If it took the appearing of Jesus every five minutes, including in this podcast, if he appeared to us just off camera, just off camera. And he said, I appreciate you guys. Peace be with you. I'm glad you're pointing the world to me.

Then he'd disappear. Well, all four of us would say, did you see that? And we're like, listen, as soon as we went out from here, and we began, or we turned to the cameras and said, what's that on camera?

Did y'all see that? And they would say, see what? I said, Jesus just appeared here. DJ appeared to us. They would say, yeah, yeah, really. That would cause us more trouble than anything that could ever happen to you. Because as soon as we walked out, said, we saw it. The cage in the guy on the computer.

I mean, these guys have come up with this crazy story. It's called deep fake. And look, they would hound us right. Oh, you're the one that claimed you saw Jesus. You and your three buddies there. You all saw Jesus one day. They would castigate us and be ruthless towards us. I'll confess something.

And if it reached the New York Times, the New York Post of modern news media, what would they say about you, Jays? We have an eyewitness story. They probably just laugh and say they're crazy. But it wouldn't fly. But going back to John 6, I do think we should at least admit this, that, and I've done all the Christian evidence as an apologetics. You guys know that. and I've been heavily involved in student ministry for almost 12 years, and I've never seen someone, me personally, come to Christ, strictly based on me providing them with evidences of the scriptures

or how this is true. Exactly. They come. They come because Jesus speaks to their human dilemma. I mean, that's it. I think when John 6 says that nobody can come, and thus the Father draws them. I mean, I do, I don't think that, I think it's inaccurate to portray us as we're explorers in the wilderness that we stumble across Jesus. No, God has to reveal through the Holy Spirit.

Yeah. And that's where John ultimately gets to in John 14 through John 17. The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus to you through, through the church, through the ministry of the gospel. Through the messengers. Yeah, but it's, that's, it's his presence that changes us, his presence. No, let's take one last break. I wanted to say this. One thing I do in Bible studies, I've done it probably a hundred times when I'm sharing with someone.

I'll ask them to gauge where they're at. I'll say, you know, if you saw a miracle, would that change your life? And what's amazing, because in my mind the correct answer should be no, because you know Jesus already. But most people say yes. And I'm thinking that's not a good answer. No. You see? I think, Zach, to your point, that apologetics is for the believer, really.

Yeah. The encouragement of a believer as opposed to convince an unbeliever, because the gospel is what is the power to change the life. I think the apologetic makes us feel better about everything we believe is true. So I've always thought it was more of a strengthening tool as opposed to evangelist. Because people are looking for proof, not faith. And Jesus, you know, God said it's impossible to follow me without faith. Certain of what you don't see.

Yeah. Faith is being sure what we hope for. And certain of what you don't see. And my point is, if you saw a miracle, if I saw it, I got to see it. You're like, no, well, you missed it. But if I saw a miracle, I'd say, of course. Well, so to wrap up the thought of this, I think this is why he did it. So in verse 26 of Matthew 14, when the disciples saw him walking on the lake,

they were terrified, which I get it. You know, all of a sudden you see this person walking. They're not sure who it is at first. It's a ghost, they said, and cried out in fear. I mean, they're like, which is funny that they would immediately think ghosts before Jesus. Scared the daylight. Yeah, I've talked that before. You know what they said at resurrection?

It's a ghost. Yeah. They always went, it's kind of like what you said. Oh, he's doing miracles. Must be a demon. I mean, we're, we'll, even the world. think of how many movies there are about horrors and, you know, ghosts and goblins. If a reporter had been on the boat and everybody looked up and the news reporter looked up and saw what everyone else was seeing,

trust me when I tell you, terror would have entered him too. Oh, that's right. And then he – I don't know what he would have said about it, but when he saw it, he would say, whoa. Now, then he would have called his boss and said, I think we ought to do a 10-part series. And his boss would have said – A ghost. Yeah.

And his boss would have said, now, wait a minute. Let me get this right. You're actually claiming what that bunch of heathen said they saw that day. You said, well, I mean, it would have been. It was a little early, I mean, but I could see. I mean, it looked like he was walking on the water. It would have been ghost hunters. That's what I was.

Episode one. So this is it actually. Do not print that son or you're fired. So it actually happens just what you said. Because Jesus says take courage. It is I. Don't be afraid. In other words, it's just me.

Yep. So look what Peter does. He gives the response you just said, Lord, if it's you. the word if was a problem i mean think about that statement if it's you the person we thought was a ghost that you the believers would be looking for proof instead of trust that's right and what's he does the same thing that's good tell me to come to you on the water so what he says is i know you say it's you i know it looks like you but if it's you tell me to what what does he want one more thing Well, that was worse than the if when he said, then he started dictating policy to a supernatural being.

Tell me to come, you should shut up, sit down, and listen. What did you say truth over proof? That was good. No, he was looking for proof instead of trust. That's what Peter, because he's like, you know, if it's you. So I want proof. Yeah, that's good. So what happens is he gets out.

Jesus said, yeah, come on. I mean, he doesn't even rebuke him or anything. He says, come on. He gets out of the boat and he starts doing it. I'm really doing it, man. Good night. I mean, I'm walking on water. And then it said he saw the waves.

Remember, we're in the middle of the storm here. He saw all the waves and he thought, what in the world? And he starts to say, help it, Lord. Then all of a sudden, we got the answer. We should have got to start with. Help me, Lord. Yeah. I mean.

He got, that's it. That's what I was going to say. He should have just said that first. That should have been your first life. Help me, Lord. With what? With anything you see fit. That should have been.

With everything. Anything and everything. But you know what? I would say if I could only walk on water, you say, just have faith because, you know. Well, be careful what you wish for. I mean, now you're opening up a can of water. It'd be cool to walk on the water. And you say, I'll go across the ocean.

What are you going to do after about the ocean? the first five steps and a shark says, hmm. Yeah, you know? You walk very far and so. Well, guess what? You're going to need another miracle. We're going to have to. Oh, there's a guy named Jonah.

He made it. Well, let's go down that road. Because you're not going to last long walking on the water out in an ocean. It just ain't going to work. That's good. You better get with the guy who has the ability to do all this stuff to be graphically simple. Well, that's what I love. He got me on it.

That's what I love about. these signs, and John, of course, has seven or eight of them that he kind of zeroes in on, but you see them all throughout the gospels, is that it keeps pointing you back to who he is. And these ones like this were kind of little private signs because nobody else knew about this, but the apostles. And then, Jason, one of your favorite lines, when he comes back, he brings Peter back with him. I don't know.

I was just thought about it. Did he carry him back or whatever? But they get back in the boat and they worshipped him. Yeah. Have you ever noticed that as it goes? goes forth, Jesus doesn't use tactics like, y'all can't remember the time I walked on the way. And he never says that. No, he never goes back to them.

He says, you know, I'm the one. You all hauling me. Let me explain something. You know why? Because it's doubt. I think you start, your mind can't believe in process. And you're like, well, it was 3 o'clock in the morning. There was a storm.

I mean, maybe there was some kind of dots from rocks under there. I mean, I think that's why, because that was not what he was trying to do. He was not trying to prove himself through wowing you. He was proving himself more on matters of the heart. It's relational. He had a relationship. But even Peter's experience twice that we know of after that, Peter denied Jesus three times. And then in Galatians, it talks about him.

Which goes back to the point about when they said, did Judas have a choice? I'm like, look at Peter, he did just as bad of things. over and over that were just embarrassed? I mean, when he just said there was... Don't you remember the time? Where's your faith? Don't you remember the time he walked on water? And Peter would have said, well, I...

Well, even post-resurrection, I mean, you talk to what he was doing in the Galatian church. If you were ever going to put it, if Jesus was ever going to use the word idiot, this was the moment with Peter. He should have said, hey, you idiot. What kind of question is that? You're going to start telling me what to do? If it's me, who else would it be? You moron? There were a lot of those moments.

And I think that's why it's written as much for us as well. We're out of time. What an awesome time talking about the scriptures. So the next podcast, Friday's podcast, I'm just going to tell you, you want to start, tell your friends, tell anybody that follows our family. We have a big Robertson reveal coming up on the next podcast. So we don't want you to ever miss a podcast. Don't miss the next podcast. I don't miss the next one.

It's a biggie. So Zach, it was good having you hang on this today, too. Love you guys. So we're so glad you guys were with us today. You can subscribe on iTunes or Spotify or YouTube or Facebook. And be sure and rate us on iTunes so that other people can know about the podcast.