Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 943 | Jase Unwittingly Draws a Crowd at Buc-ee's & How to Handle Sex Scandals in Churches

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

Jase’s one and only trip to Buc-ee's was so eventful that Missy nearly filed a missing persons report by the time he got out of there, and Phil is proud of his longtime influence on the life of a newly elected elder at church. Al reminds everyone of why the Robertsons distrust buffet-style food service, and the guys discuss various groups’ obsessions with false doctrine and teachers. Jase has some advice for those dealing with scandal within their churches.   In this episode: Ephesians 4; Hebrews 12, verses 8-18; 1 Corinthians 1, verse 17 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to unashamed. I'm just saying I'm a fan now, but I wasn't a fan. Last time we were talking about Dad's Mike, now we're arguing about Buckees. All right, Zach, so tell us why you love Buckeys now. I mean, I'm not going to say I love Buckeys, but I will tell you this. Let me start here. I don't like buffets.

Are y'all buffet people? No. I don't do buffets. Buffet. What do you mean? You don't like with that. Yeah, that's why I hunt. The woods is an all-you-can-eat buffet.

The water is teeming with buffet of fish. Yeah, I don't like. The reason I don't like buffets, Zach, is because of one of the men on this podcast, one, Mr. Phil Robertson, my dad, who basically instilled in us at a very young age that when we put a, bunch of food out and then, you know, just have a free for all to go at it. The last thing you want to do is be dipping out of there. That's what I, that's the message I got. I think that was in the context of what they call potluck.

Yes. But that's people like the church potluck. Yeah, that's people cleaning out their refrigerator and throwing three things together that shouldn't go together, calling it a casserole, and then wondering why everybody's grumpy or six. But I think it's still applied to a, to even an establishment that basically thought, let's just put a huge amount of food out that the level of quality doesn't matter as much as the massive quantity.

Yeah. That's the, that's the thing. That was, I get into like the thing. And there's businesses that are set up to basically corral people through it. I've just always kind of steered away from that. And, you know, everybody, all my, a lot of my friends love Buckeys, which is a, I don't wonder, how would you describe it? Like a Walmart of gas stations?

It's a convenience store on steroids is what I always say. Yeah. It's redneck heaven. I can't. That's why I can't do. I went there once. And an hour later, when I got back to the vehicle, Missy's like, where have you been? I mean, I was thinking about calling the police.

I was like, I was meeting and greeting all the redneck world. because that's what it turned into. They're like, hey, are you thinking. They're our people. Are you one of those duck guys? Well, I mean, the line formed. You had one line to the cash register, another line of the cash register, and then you had a special guest, which was the duck guy at Buckees.

Zach, you need to, Fetha, who owns that Buckees. That's where we need to do all of our appearances. Is it Buckees? No, I made a pitch out. I turned around the cash register. cash register and said, hey, find the manager, and we might can work something out here. And she said, I don't think we're interested. If you're listening and you work at Buckees and you know someone in the upper echelion of Buckees, yeah.

I mean, I feel like they're, look, because I was like, I mean, I wasn't a fan, but I'll tell you, I finally figured it out because I stopped twice, drove to Nashville and back on our 40. there's two Buckees on our 40. And when I tell you, you go, they got the bathroom set up is there's got to be, a hundred. Oh, it's got to have a hundred stalls in the bathroom. Every stall is private. Yep. It's clean.

Yeah. They have hand sanitizer in each stall and they have a cleaner that you can clean the toilet before you use it. Well, you know what you're described? driving and what I do, I've only been to Bucky's one. If I want to go experience that, I go home. Well, you're on a five-hour drive. Sometimes you come in ain't, no. Jay's, some of us are not hermit crabs like you and dad.

Zach and I are men of the road. He's like, look, these great revelations, they have toilet paper. I mean, they have a place to wash your hands. Then you have some hand sanitizer. I was just thinking about my. home in my bathroom. I was like, well, I experienced that three times a day at my house. Well, that's what I'm saying.

If you're on the road, though, what do you do? And I used to say go find out like a hotel lobby because that's always a good move. But this is like, I mean, I'm telling you, they've built an entire business basically around. We got clean bathrooms and we got plenty of them. Yeah. And they got pretty good food there, too. They make, they got pool port sandwiches. I think I would tell you, like I tell my kids,

they were young, I would say, whatever you need to do, do it now because we're not stopping. And so they all go, you know, to the bathroom at our house and then we drive. Yeah. So I'm with both of y'all because I agree with Zach. I mean, you're exactly right. It's a clean, amazing stores, a lot of stuff there. But I agree with Jays. And not even on the being recognized of as much as just too many human beings in one store.

Yeah. And you can't hardly get in the parking lot. There's one down here that they just built. It's a new one that comes down to Orange Beach. And I mean, you know, first time I was by, oh, Bucky, we pulled in. We, you know, we walk in there. But it was late at night. So it wasn't a ton of people.

That's when the next day I came by. Yeah, the next time I came by there, you could not get another car on the parking lot. There were hundreds of cars. And I just want a convenience stop. There's a scripture that says something like a clean bathroom. overcomes a multitude of sins or something like that. Well, look that up because I don't think that one's in there. But I think if people, I think we should travel from 10 to 5 at night,

which is when I travel unless my wife, you know, throws a fit and it's like, you're saying 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. Yeah. Because then you can stop at all these places if they're open. There's nobody in there. You know, there's no traffic on the road. It's cool. schooler.

Yeah. So kids, kids will sleep if you have small children. That's what we did most of our life, which caused a little friction in the marriage. But I'm like, take a pillow and a blanket. And so I'm just saying if you're really,

if the walls are closing in on you, you know, that have small families. I don't know, Jason, I don't know if you knew this or not, but they're building a Buckees in Rustin, which is where dad,

where you and I were, were born and where dad went to one Louisiana Tech University. So they're building one out on that new exit in Ruston. So Buckees is coming to northeast Louisiana. It's on the way. I think it's another year or two before they built it. But it's going to be right there in our backyard. So you can just go down there and do an appearance anytime you want to.

Well, I'll send you and you can give me a report. Well, I just want to say, I didn't get paid to say this. But I mean, I'm giving the official endorsement of Bucky. based on the bathroom situation. First of all, I never heard of Buckees. But I must say that I've maneuvered myself in the last decade. You are Buckees. I'm not, if you're looking for me around some store and everything, I've just...

It's not you. It's not... Are we ever going to find you at a Buckees, Dad? That's my question. Will we ever find Phil Robertson? No, you're not going to find me on the premises. If somebody comes up to you and says, hey, I saw you the other day at Bucky's, you'd say it wasn't me.

That's right, guy. And he's been working on that. Buckys Road. I know nothing about it. Well, dad. This morning, I said, I'm trying to think of a reason I would go to a place called Buckees. Bucky, that's enough to shoe me out of there. Dad, do you know what the mascot is at Buckees?

You're going to love this. It's a beaver. The mascot of Buckees is a beaver, the name Bucky. The beaver, I know, first hand. Is that because they work hard or whatever? Buckey Beaver. I don't know what the. That's the mascot.

It's a beaver. You think Mackey goes to Buckees? Does Mackey go to Bucke? We're in Ephesians Chapter 4. It started, you started this act by giving Buckees. I just had the experience. That's true. Oh, that's funny.

Yes, we are in Ephesians 4 today. There's one last thought that I wanted to take us to cross us over today from the other one. I mentioned that idea about being full, the fullness of God back in 319 to surpass knowledge that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God. And I mentioned this briefly a couple of podcasts ago, but I did a little bit deeper dive into it, and I wanted to say something about it. In Philippians, too, it's in the ESV, and I think the New American Standard, it says that Christ emptied himself. In the NIV, it reads a little bit differently. Let me look it up. In the NIV, it says made himself nothing.

But the Greek word there is actually empty. That's the word. he emptied himself, meaning that he became one of us and became a human being. And yet he was still God, but he was also human. But, you know, I just, I just want to mention one more time because the idea that God is so full, he fills all things, he feels the universe, he's all powerful, he's all knowledgeable. And yet he was willing to become one of his creation to save us, to offer us salvation and also to transform us and ultimately to glorify us,

I just think it made the passage even more enriching to me to realize how great Jesus really is and what he was willing to do for us. And so that's that word for empty. It's mentioned four other times in the Bible, and every one of them is a negative connotation in all the other times that it's mentioned, which I thought was interesting,

when you see that in a sense, the Romans 414, 1st, 515, 2nd Corinthians 9.3. And then 1st Corinthians 1,17 says, for Christ did not send me to baptize, remember this context when Paul was talking about somebody was trying to get him to baptize. He did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. There's that same word of its power. So he was saying that I don't want to somehow put this on me because the power is in Jesus, not in me. And so he says, I don't want that to be empty. That's the same word and the same idea that Jesus did for us. He emptied himself. He became one of us. So I just, I don't know, it just, it really stood out to me that was so enriching to think about how great the love of Christ is.

Well, it's interesting when you think about that verse. He's taking on the nature of man. Yeah. But he's not giving up his deity in any form or fashion. Correct. That's not what the verse is saying, you know, because in Colossians 2, Paul says that for in Christ, the fullness of deity lives in bodily form. So you got Christ in or God in body, which that's the beauty of the whole gospel, really, is that you have the God that transcends so far above creation and humanity. And then that God, the fullness of that God takes on human nature.

and lives in bodily form, which is... Well, and think about it, Zach. I mean, Jesus is the centerpiece of all of these texts. It all comes together when he said, you, however, did not know, you didn't come to know Christ in that way, meaning impurity, continual lust from over, lost all sensitivity, said,

you didn't learn that from the Jesus. You were taught with regard to your former way of life to put off your old self so there has to be a change and behavior which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires don't be that to be made new in the attitude of your mind to put on the new self created to be like god in true and it goes over the truth about three times here created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Therefore, how you operate, whereas you move forward, therefore each of you must put off falsehood

and speak truthfully to his neighbor. For we're all members of one body. We're all in this together. Jesus is the king. We're the kingdom. And you're in anger, it happens that it's easily, you can be easily angered if you're not careful. Don't let the sun go down while you're still angry.

And do not give the devil a foothold. He who has been stealing must steal no longer, must work doing something useful with his hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. Don't let any unwholesome talk out of your mouth, be all but only what is helpful. for building others up according to their needs. These texts are a way to roll, and it's amazing that it may benefit those who listen.

Don't greed the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. So you can override all this stuff that's coming at you from the world. Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, brawling, and slander. They're out. You just don't operate that way, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another. Forgiving each other, just as in Christ, God forgave you. Yeah, I think it comes back to that. It's pretty blunt. That power of love and love of power. I mean, the Jesus, that was the expression of God's love. I mean, he did what we couldn't do. I mean, just reading that, you say, boy, this is a challenging way to roll here on what you give up and what you hold on to.

It's all marked out. It's not like, well, I didn't know I was getting so mean to those people. Well, it comes back to what happened in the garden. I mean, when Satan said, when you eat that fruit, you'll be like God. That's what I mean about this quest for being our own power and authority and try to work everything out. but God and his love became a human. So just when you, it's hard to wrap your head around that because you're like God.

The imitators of God so dearly loved children and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. That's what I mean. He showed you the ability to surrender, to be humble, to be a servant. You remember when in the verse he says, he, you know, became a ransom?

If your name comes up, it needs to be on the love side, do that things, the acts of God, taking, not taking out, redeeming somebody, meanness or mad at him or revenge or revenge or. Yeah. It's just worldly, basically, just a rampant, it just got to go. Yeah.

Well, and just to reset it for transition, because that is zoned into where we're headed. We've studied these first three chapters of Ephesians, and basically they've given the plan and person of Jesus. I mean, this is, you know, we started at the beginning. This plan was before the creation of the world. And then it was all about who Jesus is and then him living in us through his spirit. Now in chapter four, he's going to talk about the purpose that comes out of that, which then becomes us. So it's not even, I agree with what you said, Jason, a recent podcast, it's not necessarily about, well, this is just one size doctrine and one size lifestyle. It's more than that because it's understanding that we're all had to be purposed in who Jesus is in us. And so that changes us. That gives us new insight and it gives us new wisdom. It gives us gifts and abilities that come from the spirit. So all those things are going to define our purpose and who we are and kind of how we live and what we do. And that's kind of where we're getting to. in chapter four.

I think too, because you're going to see a lot of opposition come up. And so he kind of reset saying, look, remember the overall calling that we've, you know, we've all been called in God through Jesus. And so then he gets into unity and he starts talking about grace, you know, God's grace has given us all this. So as a collective body of Christ, we can show. the world, what Jesus looks like. Yeah.

But so the opposition. Even as Christ apportioned. Yeah, the opposition comes up because then he starts making statements and especially in the letters to Timothy and all, because their backdrop, they didn't like this because it was taking their selfish wants and desires. And there was a lot of prejudice here and a lot of conflict, and you got the Jews and the Gentiles. And so, but, you know, just like a comment when he says,

then we will no longer be blown like, you know, on the waves, immature by every wind of teaching. And he really gets in that with Timothy. And so they were having a lot of false apostles, a lot of false teaching. And it was all trying to get back to this worldly idea of what success looks like. How much money you got, who you're having sex with. you know it's a jungle out there

what idol you're worshipping oh man so but you know being Jesus in the world means you you find this union in Jesus and in his grace and what he's put together

and that's where it's got to start and so he kind of gives this battle cry of you know which we talked about this before and I'll go ahead and read it I guess you remember read it though yeah read that read that first section, the first 16. Chapter 4, he says, as a prisoner for the Lord, then I urge you to live a life

worthy of the calling you have received, which is, this is all about Jesus' Lord here. Yeah. Yeah. Not in their case, somebody from Rome or some goddess that we've declared to have all authority. Be completely humble and gentle, which is why you were bringing up that. Jesus gave us the example of what self-giving love looks like. And gentle, be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace.

And then I mentioned this before. In the Greek language, those first two words, there is of four, fours not in there. He gives a chant, and there are seven things he says. One body, which he's mentioned many times. which is the head is Christ. We're the body of Christ. He gave an analogy of a human body. Jesus is the head.

We're the body. One body. One spirit. And remember these are the same people that when this first started, they hadn't even heard there was a Holy Spirit. Yeah, that's how their whole thing started into them being the Ephesians, right? Yeah. just as you were called to one hope when you were called.

So he goes back to that calling Jesus as Lord. And we know that not only do you become a disciple of Jesus, you get God's spirit, you're a member of the body, but you also have this hope of eternal life, this inheritance, as sons and daughters of God, as Jesus is Lord. So then it says one Lord, and there's Jesus' Lord, one faith, one baptism.

And you remember that in Acts 19. when he baptized the first ones in Ephesus there into the name of Jesus, one God and Father of All, who is over all and through all and in all. Man, what a sweep. Yeah, that's four times that's mentioned all, which again goes back to that fullness principle, you know. Those the seven things that are, you are on your way,

that make us one. I mean, that is, that's what brings us together. And you're right. And it started with the idea of Jew and Gentile that he mentioned back in chapter two. But you could apply this to anybody, any group of people, any mindset, any, you know, because I think about that one hope. I mean, that's a powerful thought when you think about it. Because people, a lot of people hope for a lot of different things. But there's only one hope that really matters to every single person.

That is what happens? What happens? I mean, is this it? Is this life all there is? Is there something more? Is there something more enriching somewhere? Is there something after this, you know, that we're here? You know, all those questions really boil down to one thing, which is why he says that.

I mean, when you think about that, this is a common human condition. It doesn't matter whether you're in Africa, whether you're in India, or whether you're in the U.S., everybody has the same things they deal with every single day. Yeah. Yeah. Well, usually when you read that, people don't like reading this in a earth setting because they're like, well, this is, seems what they, I guess the official word would be sectarian. You know, this makes people uncomfortable.

But I don't see that at all. I think it makes you realize you better be open-minded, number one. Why do you say it makes people uncomfortable? Because the word one. Because it sounds like you're being exclusive. That's what he said. It's like, people are like, one, well, there's thousands of ways to receive, you know, whatever. And finding God or salvation, or they say there's thousands of religion.

I mean, even in our own Christianity, meaning. people that acknowledge Jesus as Lord, there's thousands of different groups. And I'm just going to be honest, based on my view, most of them don't like each other. That's the centerpiece of, which is not good. Yeah, just to give you an example, like, I remember an argument I had maybe a week ago. And I brought up some song that, oh, I know what it was. It was the blessing during, during COVID, you know, when, uh, I can't think of who did that song.

Oh, yeah, and your children and your children and their children. Well, I brought that song up, and, you know, and a brother's like, well, you've got to watch those kind of song. You know, some of these groups out there, and it was a little speech. He said, some of these groups, you know, the words of the songs are, you know, false doctrine. And so he started naming off a bunch of groups that he don't listen to. And I said, isn't that song an actual Bible?

verse? And he's like, yeah, but you've got to look into the whatever group they're with. And I was like, I ain't got time. They're literally singing a Bible verse, you know? And then he got off, you know, on another issue saying, well, you know, some of these churches out here. And I think he was referring to some of these mega churches and all. He's like, they got sex scandals, you know, going on.

And I said, look, I hate to tell you this. but there's probably a sex scandal at your church. Yeah. And he's like, well, you mean I hadn't heard about it? I said, oh, it's going on because there's human beings there. That's right. Yeah, there was a church in a town called Corinth that had sex scandals too. Well, but, you know, and that's a crazy illustration.

But I'm saying we actually had that discussion. And I thought, you know, we're not policemen here. Yeah. And there's things that unite us, but at the end of the day, we're all flawed human beings and you're never going to go to a church where bad things are not happening. And so, you know, I get it. There's some things that are deal breakers out there, but it's got to revolve around one of these seven things or I'm not worried about it, you know. And when did we get to a point where you have to quote somebody or, you know, because we quote

a lot of people in this podcast, that you quote somebody because it really impacted you and had a great, you know, influence on you that you had to agree with everything that person believes and said in every conversation they ever did publicly or you can't ever even quote anything they said that's insane well that's why this i mean public this disclaimer here i know we've said it before said again we reference a lot of people that we don't line up with on everything i don't line up with you guys on everything right well you're wrong all the times that but we love you're i am i'm wrong on the things i'm wrong on things i don't know i'm wrong about it I realize I'm wrong in them.

That's right. But there has to be some type of generosity in our pursuit of the Lord. And I like the term generous orthodoxy or CSL is called the Great Hall of Christianity. I mean, but yeah, if you become the heretic police, one, I'm just not that confident in my own ability. Yeah, I mean, I want to have some type of humility that's like, you know, I like what Bill Smith used to say, this is where I'm at right now. And it's not to say there's not an ultimate truth, but it is to say that I'm not the determiner of that.

And even my interpretation of scripture is going to be flawed. It's going to be, it's going to be jaded. It's going to, I mean, there's that thing there that I got to deal with. And, you know, I agree with you. There's a song called reckless love that was another one that a lot of people got angry about. And I'm like, I guess, depending on you interpret the song, but I'm like, I mean, we read into this stuff so much. I mean, I sing the song and loved it.

And for me, it was just that God is unabashedly coming after and just, he is storming through to chase his people down. And that was very meaningful for me in a particular time in my life when I needed, I needed to sing that song to believe that. Well, how many times, Zag, have you heard people say, you know, you think about old hymns, they were written 150, 200, 200 years. ago. And, you know, you're at a funeral somewhere and it was somebody's favorite song and maybe they were, you know, very older person. And, you know, you're still moved and touched by those things. But, but, you know, you may say, well, you know, it's different now that it was in. Yeah, but it's about God's way of touching you through song or Psalm or reading or the scriptures or whatever. I mean, we just, we shouldn't be the people that poopoo that. Well, I'm not going to listen to all these

old songs. Let's throw that out because it only knew or the other way around. And we do, and to the point of the text, though, I mean, you know, we don't have a lot of unity in the body sometimes because we're, we can be very sectarian as believers. And, you know, and I know, I know the rebuttal, too. I mean, I've heard it. I've even probably participated in it. But I have to. Yeah. I mean, what we all have.

But I think a good litmus test is this. Are you talking more about what's wrong with the body of Christ? in that group or this group or whatever group, or is the grand trajectory of your presentation of the kingdom, is it about who Christ is? Are you talking about, are you leading people to fall in love with him? Or are you leading people to see how everybody else is a heretic and they're teaching false doctrines and whatnot? And I mean, we grew up in a church where, I mean, how many times have you heard

the word false teacher, false doctrine? I mean, the denomination we grew up in historically was notorious. for calling each other out and ripping each other to shreds. And it's just like, and you look at the fruit of that in the end. And as one pastor said, you can be dead right, but you're, you're just that. You're dead. Right. You know, and I think there's, I think that's what's beautiful about the picture here is there is life in Christ.

And it's actually through the church that we experience the kingdom now, which is a reflection and a manifestation of the kingdom to come. And that's the picture that Paul is painting in Ephesians. And so I want to make sure that whatever I'm doing in my work in the church, I pray to God that it is to that end and not simply just to call it everybody who's not doing it right. That's why I brought up first and second, Timothy, because Paul's writing to Timothy about all this false teaching. And remember he said, watch your life and doctoring closely. But when you read the entire letters, which I did last night, because I knew we were going here,

just because he's like, be unified. And I've had people before. I mean, one guy comes to mine where I shared Jesus with him. He came to the Lord. He went off, went to some school, and he come back, and basically said, okay, you're out. And I'm like, out of what? He's like, here's where you're wrong. And he was telling me all these things that he disagree with me now.

And I was like, well, I mean, I don't care that you feel that way. I'm going to disagree with you, but I'm still going to love you. And he's like, no, you're not. It's like it was a deal. He felt like he had to draw a line in the sand unless we come to agreement on certain issues. so I listened to the issues. None of it I deemed as very important. So I was like, all right, well, thanks for sharing,

but I'm just going to disagree with you and love you anyway. Which that kind of ended the relationship from his side because it's like, well, now you've gone from, I mean, he's like, I don't want to be unified with you anymore. So I think that's very dangerous. But first and second, Timothy, it has all this stuff about, you know, the words of doctrine and, watch false teachers.

But right in the middle of these things are beautiful moments where he focuses on Jesus. And just to pick a couple, you know, even when he was talking about setting up overseers and deacons when he got to the end of chapter 3, 1st Timothy, remember that where it says, beyond all question, this is 316, the mystery of godliness is great he appeared in a body was vindicated by the spirit was seen by angels

was preached among the nations was believed in the world was taken up in glory well who's he talking about he's talking about jesus you know so then he's like the spirit clearly says you know first tiffany four in later time some will abandon the faith the faith in what in jesus it's like when you read the whole thing, I mean, I'm just skimming through here, but like in Second Timothy chapter two, here's also the same kind of moment. In verse 10, he says, therefore, I endure everything for the sake of the elect that they may too obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Here's a trustworthy saying, if we died with him, we'll also live with him. If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will disown us.

If we are faithless, he will remain faithful for he cannot disown himself. And my only point is that you brought up C.S. Lewis earlier, it's kind of like what he said, folks that's known Jesus, kind of like focusing on the sun, the actual sun that gives us light and heat. But he's like, I believe in the sun because I see it. But I also see everything else, which because the sun illuminates, you know. And that's kind of the way it is, I think, in Christ. And when you get to all these religious differences,

I mean, the bottom line is Jesus is the center of this book. And I've said many times I vehemently disagree with a lot of people that I love. because they love Jesus. And that's what brings us together. Well, think about, look how singular this idea of one is. But look at what he talks about. He doesn't talk about all that stuff in this text. I mean, it's a body, in other words, a body of Christ.

It's spirit. It's Lord to Him. It's what we hope in. It's what we have faith in. Baptism, which is that, you know, that public confession that we're in one. And then he says, God, the father. So it's pretty limited when you think about it in what we're in the scope of what should unifies. I mean, we shouldn't get into this myriad of stuff you're talking about. Jays. I mean, in other words, whether we're in Christ or not, that's where it gets

wonky and crazy. I mean, we can be in Christ. But as long as, I mean, he lays out some pretty specific things that are pretty big ones that, that, you know, don't leave a lot of interpretation to. Yeah. And there's a, I mean, I'm sure there's a place. And there is a place, right, because it's in scripture. There's a place for us to address false teaching. And there's a place for us to address heresy. You know, and Peter, which one is, I think Peter talks about this. Hold on a second. Yeah. In second Peter. He talks about it in terms of like sensuality and, you know, things like the church giving over to sensuality and things like that. A Jew talks about it a little bit. And in the passage of 1 Timothy 6, which is what Jace was alluding to earlier, there's also an earlier part of the book as well. I was just reading through this when you mentioned that. And I find it interesting that in the same text where he's talking about false teachers, he talks about people who have an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are of a depraved mind

and deprived of the truth. And when I read that, I think, man, so often how many times you see the same type of the people that are constantly saying false teacher, false teacher, false teacher, but they don't talk about this idea of unhealthy desire or craving for controversy or quarrels about words. When I read that, I'm convicted. I'm like, man, I don't, because I can like veer into that. And I'm like, I don't want to do that.

I don't want to get into a semantical game with people about scripture. And we're arguing about words and semantics and controversies. And then there's another context here where it's people who are using the word of God and the church for financial gain. And that's their motivation. Well, Zach, I have a. The theory about that, I think a lot of people that do that, especially in leadership positions, are trying to cover up the immorality with all of this other stuff. Oh, it's all about the cover up. What y'all just described is why I brought up a few podcasts ago about cults, because you got to realize the church in Ephesus was battling a cult that, you know, were worshipping a statue and that became one of the seven wonders of the world.

But have you ever noticed the tendencies out when a church goes wrong? It's usually some kind, it's the opposite of humility. You've got some kind of people in power who are untouchable. There's nobody holding them accountable. So they've, which is supposed to be Jesus. He's the head of the church, not some dude. Exactly. And so now since no one's holding him accountable, he's like a typical human being.

He goes out to the world. I think the next thing is isolation where they, since there's so much evil and there's so many people that they disagree with, even in the religious world, they tend to isolate themselves where the world is not welcome. Yep. And so you see that in cults all over the place. I think there's also a detachment of Jesus from the scriptures. So a lot of the things that they teach are from the Old Testament because they, like a lot of the Jews that Paul was writing to, did not see Jesus in the Old Testament. So they're just making all kinds of teachings, you know,

based on the reading of the Old Testament. And it's not about Jesus coming, you know, to take care of the problems. That's a, Jay, that's even, you could even do that with the New Testament in a way. It's a little more nuanced. But I think that that is, that's what I was saying earlier about a great litmus test. is if am I talking about the scriptures or am I or am I talking about how the scriptures point us to Jesus. Yeah. And that is different.

I mean, that is a different thing. And, and I mean, Jesus said this. He said, you study the scriptures and by them you think you're saying, but you miss me, the one they're talking about. And so I think the litmus test is, am I talking about making sure that I got all the right belief systems? Not saying it doesn't matter. What we believe matters or doctor matters. But is my emphasis on making sure. that that's all checked because I grew up like that.

I grew up in the churches of Christ and it was all about believing the right way. And I didn't really hear about believing in him, putting my trust and faith in him. Growing up, I'm just doing my experience. And so that's the big litmus test. Is what we're talking about, are we talking about who is this God of the Bible that all the fullness of deity dwelt and bodily form? That's the trajectory of what's going on in Ephesians. And to Phil's point, Christ is the center of all of it.

That's why the whole unity that he's talking about and the whole church is built on him. That's Paul's argument. It's not built on the right, all the correct systems. It's built on the person of Jesus. And then the scripture and whatever system we come up with should always be pointing us to him. And that should be evident in the way that we come across with the world around us. Speak the truth in love. We will in all things grow up into him who's the head, that is Christ.

From him, the whole body, joined in hell together by every supporting ligament. Jesus has to be in the center. Supporting ligament grows, builds itself up in love as each heart. Does his work. But you get out of that below there, you however did not come to know Christ, way. The way he's talking about is having all lost sensitivity, giving themselves over to sensuality, so to indulge in every kind of impurity with a continual lust for more. These people are claiming Jesus or in ungrateful as they can be. You, however, did not come to know Christ that way.

It always goes right back to Jesus. Surely you heard of him. We're taught in him in accordance with the truth. That is in Jesus. You were taught with regard to the formal way of life to put off your old self and here comes Jesus back, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires. It happens in the minds of the saved. To be made new in the attitude of your mind and to put on the new self again created to be like God. All three times in there if you want to get along, you got to be a bunch and a whole bunch of them in Jesus. Jesus has to be the centerpiece. Check him out what he's up to, what he's saying,

and you'll be all right. Yeah. And I love it, Deb, because he lays out exactly who we're unified in. And then that's where he's going to the rest of this text, the grace that he gives is because the next verse he says, but to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it, meaning he's going to give us the ability and he's also going to give us the surroundings we need for us to be able to maintain that unit.

That's why he talks about leadership and gifts and all the things are there. I do want to mention this because we're running out of time because I'm working on a sermon for Sunday. And we've been in the book of Hebrews in our Sunday series. And I've told you all before, it's amazing because I've never really linked the Hebrew study with the Ephesian study. But now that I'm preaching in one and we're studying. in the other, it's amazing to me the parallels that keep coming up. Because I'm in Hebrews 12 this week, starting in 18, which is that great picture of the kingdom.

You know, you have come to Mount Zion, the heavily. I'm in that text. But he comes out of that in Hebrews 13, exactly what we're talking about today. Once you realize the kingdom of God, he's going to give them three challenges. One is their humility, pride, as you mentioned that a minute ago. the second one is sex, intimacy, relationship. And the third one, guess what? Money.

So he lays out the very three things that we've been talking about that are common to man that derail us from the kingdom and from unity. And then he says, remember your leaders, because now we're talking about leadership, which is the gift he gives. So he said, consider the outcome of their way of life. And then listen to what he says in verse eight, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Ultimately, that's who we find.

follow to make all things right. So to me, it's like I was, when y'all were talking a minute ago, I was thinking, man, Hebrews 12 and 13 is like reading Ephesians 4. It's, it's almost the, and the Hebrew writer went at it from a completely different approach, and yet he comes up with the same results. It's almost as if the same, the same person inspired all of the scriptures. Yeah, kind of like that. Well, to me, I mean, I think it's a good question for people ask on where they, and I'm putting this in air quotes, go to church. I mean, if there's a lack of transparency or accountability from the leadership, if they seem to be more interested in money, you know, than Jesus, if there's an isolation occurring, like we're, because you think about it, we're supposed to be the voice of God in the world. We're not supposed to be isolated and not have an open mind when it comes to studying, you know, the Bible.

because some of these churches, they won't even let anybody, you know, study the Bible or read a book that's not part of their name or whatever. What are they scared of? I mean, we're in Jesus. I'm open mind. I read all kinds of stuff. And some of it I go, well, I don't think any of that's true. I notice that I was set on the porch on my way to the hook nets way to do my work. And Jeptha, they were about 10.

And what's the just appointed elder? Gary Osborne. Gary Glenn Osborne was there with him. They're 10-year-olds. And I watched them and I kind of oversaw them. I didn't know about their parents and all. But I laid the groundwork out. They told me the other day he's one of the elders.

Yeah, he goes in this Sunday. Would you please? You knew Jep's parents. You didn't know Gary. Yeah, exactly. But no, Dad, you make a great point. I mean, every leader of God started out as a young person and then had to find Christ and then allow him to rule his life. No, Christ.

Exactly. Well, that's the point of this. It says so that we will all grow up. We're all at different maturity levels. Yeah, that's good. And, you know, you can't panic because you change your mind on something or somebody's, you know, trying to share something. something with you that you never heard. I mean, we have this Bible, but it is about a person that we're unified in. And so I do think another thing I wanted to say is if their folks is not on

God's judgment instead of God's grace, I mean, God's judgment is real, but God chose to use his grace and love to draw people to him. And that, you know, if you don't believe that, a lot of people they're like, oh, I don't believe that. Well, read your Bible. I mean, just in Ephesians, We've done that. God's wrath has come up twice, and people who reject him, they will experience that. But his point is, look at God's love, look at his grace. Look where we're at in Ephesians 4. What's he talking about?

Live a life of love. Jay's your back in my sermon again. We've all been giving God's great. I mean, we're all flawed human beings. That's old Jay's with you when they go up there. He's back in my sermon because Hebrews 12, he lays out the picture of Mount Sinai and fear and wrath. And then he goes to this beautiful picture of the kingdom. And it's all about worship and an unshakable life.

It's the same thing that happened on to Alapapap. Think about whenever John saw who Christ was, he was scared. But that was fear of God followed by the embrace of God and his love. But when you were saying that, Jace, that you were talking about this progressive nature of us growing up in Christ. And I think that, man, that's a key point. point because what, man, if I got to get, and I can't, you ask a question in a lot of these groups about something that's not even, maybe it, maybe it is a heresy. And man, what if I'm, what if I'm just out of the world?

Man, what if I just got off crack cocaine and I've been a Christian for two weeks? And I mean, like, get like, I need time. We need time to learn the truths of who God is. And if we can offer grace in that situation, we should on our theology. I sure hope so. All right. So, you know, we've had a good podcast, in my opinion, is when I hate to stop, but we have to because we're out of time. I'll leave you with another Smith.

We mentioned Bill Smith. He used to always say, in my studied opinion, and then he would tell you something. And I love the way that's framed. In other words, we study, we have opinion, and we try to help each other grow, which is a great thing to end in unity. We got some guests coming up on the next few podcasts. We're super excited about that. So we'll see you with our friends in tow on the next Unashamed. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast.

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