Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 951 | Jase Is Fired Up About the Idea of Missy Running for Office & Google Is Biblically Challenged

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

Jase gets fired up imagining Missy running for office after her articulate and passionate speech about the American immigration system, and Al credits his and his brothers’ lives to Phil’s ability to make difficult decisions for their family. Jase’s foray into Google brings up troubling evidence that many people believe God doesn’t love everyone he created. The guys estimate that an earthly glimpse into hell is being left to our own devices to follow pleasure and worship ourselves. In this episode: Ephesians 4; Romans 1, verses 18-20; Romans 9, verses 20-23; Romans 13, verses 8-14; John 8, verse 44 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. I'm still in Missouri. There's a lot of work to be done in Missouri. Yeah, I hear there's lots of opposition in Missouri. That's a quote from Outlaw Josie. Well, he actually said rebels, but it was actually said there's a lot of work to do in Texas, too. but yeah he started out of him in Missouri that's why we love the movie well one thing we did accomplish you know when I had my lovely wife or I didn't have her own that was a surprise the surprise birthday party was her being on the podcast bringing balloons and in a cake that wasn't as good as advertised it just they did have that but I think we have new management and somewhere the recipe got lost which is sad but um

You know, she had that look in her eye because of our daughter, Karina, and we're trying to, you know, just keep her in the country. And she gave that speech, Al, which, you know, made me happy, because I've seen that look and I've heard those types of speeches, but I'm just glad it wasn't directed at me. You know, man? The intensity, you start dealing with your kids and the mama bear came out. But we have had...

I was highly impressed with her speech. Oh, it was great. And very seldom do we venture off into politics, but she did. And I talked about the legal immigration system as well as the illegal immigration system, which obviously need some work. We need some better leadership. But we have had a lot of people reach out to us. And so if you're late to that party, we need to investigate the leads we have.

we have plenty of ways that we think we can we can help carina so i'm very appreciative that everybody reached out especially the people who work in this world i just pulled yeah and i just pulled up the episode yeah it looks like that's quite the response wow oh my wife went off on that i think she should run for office careful well you know i don't i haven't noticed lately, but for a pretty good chunk of this political season, immigration itself has been at the top of most people's list in terms of this upcoming presidential election. So to Missy's point, it's a big deal for a lot of people. It wasn't just her. But like anybody, when it ever affects you and the people you love, obviously it's something needs to be fixed. And so I thought she articulated that well.

Yeah, which, you know, what's crazy about this, ironically, there's a lot in the New Testament about us living as foreigners and aliens because of our new creation status, which is what we're discussing in Ephesians for. You know, we're not only new creations, we're the new temple of God. We're God and humans meet, and it's actually in spirit-filled people. And I think that's what was causing the problems here in Ephesians. We're in Ephesians 4 when he makes this shift on what this new temple, what this new people look like on planet Earth. And he immediately says, therefore, in 17, I tell you, and insist on it in the Lord.

I mean, he was being very, his words were being very intense, a lot like my lovely wife is where I was making that transition, that you mustn't live like the Gentiles do in the futility of their thinking. So he brings that up because you got to remember in Ephesus at this time to go back to Acts 19 and 20 and the Temple of Artemis, which was one of the seven wonders of the world.

I mean, this was the Las Vegas of that world. And so you can imagine it would be very difficult to live as a new creature in Jesus when you got all this going on in your city. So you would start trying to find ways to straddle the fence of the new life you have in Christ versus what's going on in the city. I mean, the pressures had to be pretty great. So I think what they were doing was because he's not just singling out things that he knows that are wrong.

He's using phrases like any kind of impurity. You know, he gets to chapter 5 and says there shouldn't be a hint of something. ex-lim morality because he knows human beings. They're like, you know, I want the cake, the Jesus cake, and they have in this mindset a lot of what our culture does, I want to go to heaven, but I pretty much want to live like I want to. And I think that's what's being discussed here. So last time I attempted to say, you know, you're doing this in love because of God's love is the origin. And when you love somebody, sacrifices will happen.

And obviously he sacrificed Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice. But even just in marriage, because he's going to make that same analogy. Look at what a godly husband is and a godly wife. But then he goes on to say, this is a profound mystery. But I'm talking about you and the church. We're the bride, you and Jesus. You're the bride of Christ, the body of Christ. And so when he says in Ephesians 416 that we build ourselves up, we grow as new creatures, new babies in Christ, we build this church up in love.

In the previous verse said, we speak the truth in love as each part does its work. That's what the body, the bride of Christ does. And so when it gets into these qualities, I mean, it gets into some, you know, some really heart problems and positives that we all struggle with, you know, of the old man versus the new man. Don't you think, Jason, kind of like Paul's version, speaking primarily to Gentiles, to me, it rings back to that same conversation Jesus had on the sermon on the Mount. Remember when he said, you go back and look in early part of Matthew and five and six. And he says, you know, it was said that you do not do this. And then he would put in, you know, one of the commandments. He said, but I'm telling you now.

And then he would expand it and say, it's not just, you know, having sex with somebody. It's like what you think about. And it's not just murdering somebody, but it's how you treat people. And so Jesus was expanding the capacity of a law-based system to say, look, I've come. to change all this. You know, you've been going out of it all the wrong way. And I feel like when you get into this in Ephesians, same thing in Romans 1, because we read on the last podcast, Ephesians 4, 17 through 19, which sounds like a condensed version of Romans 1, you know, 20 down to 32, the same idea that, look, here's where you were, but I'm trying to expand and show you something way better. And that's

what happens when you live life in Christ. I'm glad you said that. Because how, did he sum up the sermon on the mouth and all his teachings you know when it says in verse 20 you however did not come to know christ that way well he's giving you the idea that however you when you learned about christ you also learned about this new life and this new character that you're now going to show well how did he sum it all up you remember there was two things he said the whole law speaking to the jewish crowd you remember how he summed up the whole law Love God and love each other. Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength,

which is where he starts here in your thinking, in your heart, in your understanding, and then love your neighbor as yourself. Well, all of a sudden, this starts making sense. The new creature is to live a life of love. That's what Ephesians 5 1 and 2 says, just as Christ loved us. And the reason we're making such a big deal about this is because when you get into, like, anger, you said, well, how is love angry? Oh, love is angry.

You know, if my wife, to go to this analogy, had an affair on me, guess what my first response is going to be? Anger. Anger. Now, that's why he gets into this. He says, nay, your anger don't sin. So, because I still have a responsibility to live like Christ. But don't ever doubt it.

Being angry is not necessarily bad. says that. And so that's why I brought up this whole idea in the last podcast about, well, if God is a God of love, why did people go to hell and stuff like that? Well, these questions are answered if you have the right foundation for the characteristics. I mean, we just summed up the Jew problem and the Gentile problem in five minutes. And he basically gave a synopsis, which was a preview to what he's writing here. There's going to be a way to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. Well, in the moment, to your point, Phil, in the last podcast, they were having

trouble understanding that. That's why chapter two is all about Jews and Gentiles coming together, all under the same umbrella of God's love, God's plan, being members together, one body, one spirit. And I think that's how it works. I think if we set that foundation, so when you get into these qualities that we struggle with, it's the right way to overcome them. It's the right way to look at it. Yeah. When you mentioned earlier, I think your phrase was there's people who want to go to heaven, but they want to live like they want to live now. And when you read Ephesians,

though, that frame does not pit, right? Because it's like, because the real question is, once you understand what Ephesians is teaching here, that the life is actually found in Christ, and as you mentioned in love of who he is and then each other. So you know, you want to live like you want to live, and then you want to go to heaven. Then the question is, are you sure that's what you want? I mean, that's not, that's really not what you want. I mean, because if you think that's the case,

then you just misunderstand what heaven is. And I think that's why it's so helpful for understanding eternal life as Jesus defined in John 17, to know him, you know, to know the one true God and Jesus Christ. of who he sent. So what you're getting in Ephesians here is honestly just a really in-depth explanation of what that means to really know him and to be conformed into the image of his son. You're seeing that. And so to participate in the divine life, you know, to use the language out of that Peter used, you know, to participate in that and the divine nature is

actually to participate in his love. And so, Christ, God is love, overflowing fountain of love, and then we're just getting in the fountain, and then we're loving each other, and that is the prize. And you kind of see it, you kind of, you kind of experience that, Jace, little parts of life when you maybe are in community with your family or a church family or someone that, like the child that you were talking about adopting. And like all there, you experience little taste of this in our life. I'm like, man, what is, this is so special. That's because that's life in Christ. That's what it, that's what it feels like that's what it manifests in yeah it's kind of it's kind of like uh how long we've been doing

these podcasts that's a good question five years we've only done a thousand well i have not been mad at any of you all since that day you check it out that's a break that's breaking news let's see if we can find out when he got mad at us you say no he didn't go down that road and we appreciated it makes it sound like you were mad at us before Yeah. Anyway, what I'm saying, when I was younger in the faith, younger in the faith, I wasn't quite so self-controlled about my thinking about the sons and daughters of God. That's good point.

Y'all are the sons of God. So I'm not like to take that for granted. No. You make a good point because most podcasts are angry. I mean, they're people who are mad. You got somebody mad. Yeah, they're mad about the country. They're mad about a political party.

They're mad about something. When I hear the mad, I think right there, no, they're not, they're not understanding the faith what it means. Yeah, exactly. So thank you, Dad, for making, making us a kinder, gentler. If we get mad at each other, every time each one of us makes a mistake. If you are angry, you're missing what he's. He's trying to tell you right here. All right.

So after he says that we're to build each other up in love as we do our work, and we're talking about the church, the body of Christ, what we look like now. He insists on it in the Lord that they shouldn't live as the Gentiles do, and I gave you the background there. It's very difficult. Verse 18, they're darkened and their understanding, separated from the life of God, which is what we're after. this life of love that he doubles down on in Ephesians 5, 1, and 2,

because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. And we know what they're ignorant of because the first three chapters has been focused on getting to know Jesus better. Getting to know. And so we know, and Zach described this next verse in the last podcast, that if you're not in Jesus or if you're not pursuing Jesus or you're not, in Christ, or you don't care about Jesus, you're under this old man, which is basically the senses. You know, if it feels good, do it.

Fame, power, you know, the evil temptations of the world. And what happens is once you lose sensitivity, you know, when you first do something wrong, you feel a little guilty about it. But after a while, that goes away. and you come up with this indulgence in every kind of impurity with a continual lust for more because it's never satisfying. And that big, always think about that movie, you know, Tombstone, when it was like, he was describing, who was the villain in Tombstone? Johnny Ringo. Johnny Ringo.

He said he was born with a big hole in his heart, you know. And he's like, well, why was he mad? He's like, for being born. I mean, which is how the world tries to reconcile the ways people are, you know. It's like he just never figured it out. But it's the same concept that they were trying to describe here. So then at verse 20, he says, you, however, did not come to know Christ that way. That's what you're ignorant of when you have that.

Surely you were heard of, surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth. is in Jesus. There's three different ways to say in Jesus. Just read that again. It's like, surely you were, surely you heard of him, were taught in him and with it,

in accordance with the truth that is in him. I mean, people say this is not about Jesus. What are they talking about? And verse 15, that's when they start, verse 15 is...

Well, I'm in 22 now. 4.20. I know. But when he starts speaking on this matter, then you're 20 right now, 21. Yeah. Oh, when he said, yeah, we grow up into him. Just saying he's still talking about the truth and love. That is Christ, yeah.

So 21, I read, so 22, you were taught with regard to your former way of life to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires, to be made new in the attitude of your minds and to put on the new self created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. And I think this is an obvious reference to the one baptism that he said in Ephesians 4, 5, because you read Romans 6, you see the same language.

We know that our old self was done away with. Colossians 2 does the same thing. We were circumcised in Christ. having been buried with him in baptism, you know, the old man, cut off, the new man. And I think it does encompass more than just individual. I think it is the old man of ever since Adam and Eve sin, and you go back. People, they, at some point in their life, they cater to the senses, the evil powers, idolatry, whatever it is. But the new self in Christ.

So then 25. Because it is that, Jayce, it's that decision point. You're right because at some point you had to say, I'm all in now. And so that is that part of new creation. I'm all in. And wherever that happens for people, for dad, it was 28. For me, it was 18. For you, it was 14.

Everybody has a point in time when they said, I went all in here. Yeah. And that's when everything was there for me. And a lot of people make arguments about, well, there's nothing you can do. well, that's what you're declaring. That is what you're saying. I'm surrendering. I'm giving up.

I'm dying. That's what you're doing. Which is the opposite of actually trying to do something. Created to be like God and true righteousness and holiness. Just think about that. That'll answer your problems about baptism. So 25. Therefore, each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor.

So now we're going back to that sermon on the mound. I'm glad you brought that up. Because he's talking about the life of God, which is loving with all your heart, soul, mind, and strain. We really didn't delve into that in that first part. But that heart, I mean, you can try to make changes in your life. But unless you change the heart, which is your, what's a good word for that? Well, it's that inner, it's that inner person. The inner compass.

Yeah, it's what you're thinking about when nobody's watching. I mean, what's driving you. What you give your energy, time. Nobody knows it but you and God. Exactly. And so that's what he's after. I mean, that's the engine. Because when you think about this in the illustration that we're in,

which is we're the body of Christ and he's the head, but that heart is what's bringing us together. And it is this love. You know, the only thing he could compare it to is the greatest love that we can think of is with our wife and with our children. But what we have in Christ is deeper than that. But it's this, I'm willing to die for you. I'm willing to do anything for you.

I'm willing to sacrifice. I'm willing not to be selfish. I'm willing to have tough conversations. I mean, this is how marriages are built. To put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desire, to be made new in the attitude of your mind. Boy, that's some. That's some.

Well, you have a new. I think about that Romans 12. You know, you want to find out what God's will is. You've been transformed by the renewing of your mind. So what do you do? You offer spiritual sacrifices. But you're doing it in view of God's mercy.

Your goal would be created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. Well, right. which is very interesting because now we're going back to the garden. Pretty hard to find. Remember when the evil one said, oh, when you eat it that tree, you'll be like God. But that's your own God. This is you're like God because of what he did for you.

And you're surrendering to it. And now his characteristics via his spirit comes out in your life. And here's a few examples. Verse 25. Each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthful. to his neighbor. So just think about how many, what that encompasses,

lies, deceit, have truths. Yep. He wants you to speak truthfully to his neighbor. You would start with the truth in Jesus, I believe, if you want to love your neighbor.

Share Jesus. For we are all members of one body, and this goes back to Ephesians too. Whether you're Jew, Gentile, he's destroyed the wall, Any barrier that stands against people as far as geography, skin color, what you do for a living, you know, classes of people, that's all been destroyed.

We're all members of one body, which I think does. Think about, think about, Jayce, how powerful this thought is, because if you're going to maintain unity, but you have people who consistently are not being. truthful and lying about whatever it is. Deceitful. Deceiving other people. Like you said, half truths, not really being all in, having a heart that's bad,

but acting like it's not, and then lying about it. Think about how hard it is to maintain any momentum going forward when it's constant lies. I don't know about you guys, but through the years, I worked with people that were chronic liars. And it was just like we could never get very far with this person because you never knew when they were being truthful. and when they weren't.

So at the heart of unity has to be honesty. Even if you don't agree with one another, at least you have to be honest about it. That's why it's so important to have truth to be able to do that. When you mask that and hide that, it becomes problematic. When you run into anger, do not sin. As you're going through this, a couple of things struck me is very interesting.

The do's and the not-dos in this list, they're not a list of, like, arbitrary commandments from God, they're actually reflective. All this is reflective of his nature because you have to remember we're talking about being conformed into his image. So if you think about the nature of God, we just go right back to who is God, this triune God. God is love, which I still can't believe you got pushback on that, but God is love. What does that mean for God to be love?

He's pouring out himself for himself. You see this in the inner life of God. And so to reverse that would be an inward pull of selfishness. And so when we're selfish, you had read a verse. I was trying to find it. I couldn't, but the language is pretty interesting. What I found that in one translation, verse 19, you said, having lost something about it with a continual less for more. Yeah, that's what ours.

That's 419. Yeah, so mine doesn't say that. But then I found in this Berean standard Bible, it says a craving for more. and I thought about the nature of a selfish, self-absorbed, self-centered, I mean, self-being the prominent word there, that when that's the life you live, you really do live like the Rolling Stones song that says, I can't get no satisfaction. I can't get it.

And because you can't get it through consumption, that's what leads to the continual lust for more, because you're trying to feel something in you that can never be filled through this consumption. So if that's one side of it, then the other side of it is a fountain. And that's why I found this interesting in all of these things that you're reading. He says, put away falsehood. So that's the negative side. But what's the positive? But let every one of you speak the truth with his neighbor.

So it moves from inward to now we're focusing on the outward. Don't be angry in our sin. Don't let the sun go down in your anger, get the devil a foothood. Don't let the thief steal, but rather what? Let him labor. There's the positive, doing honest work for his own hands. For what reason? So he has something to share what then you want to need.

Don't let corrupt talk about your mouth. That's the negative, but only instead, what? What is good for building up others? It's outward focused. So you see in all these commandments, these aren't like things. I can do these things to prove that you're good. or to follow all the rules. These are descriptions of what fulfillment looks like, because this is who God is, and God is

fulfilled. God is a fountain that overflows. And he's saying, be like me, be a fountain that overflows. That's the road to fulfillment is not being self-centered, but to be outward loving. Yeah. It's always outward, right? It's always directed outward. That's why I mentioned a while ago.

I said, you know, never left the table. mad to put on the new self created to be like God. Therefore, each of you must put off falsehood, speak truthfully. Do not anger. In your anger, don't sin. That's what I was trying to get, you take months, then years, and then you would have a pretty good question. Have you ever seen him mad?

Your answer is either yes, no, I left the table angry. At some point, that kind of life is not going in the right direction. Well, right. And he throws in that, don't give the devil a foothold, which I think affects the whole church, you know, when you have, especially leadership or whatever. And I, you know what's interesting now?

When I looked up the Greek words for anger here, let's see. It mentions it once, and then, I didn't write this down. I'm doing this off the top of my head. So when he says it here in verse 26, In your anger, do not sin. Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry. That was my point. Well, those two words, look, those two words are different Greek words.

Totally different. And the second one, this is the only place in the entire Bible. It's mentioned. So I had to do a deep dive and say, what does it mean? But what I concluded, based on everything I read, it's different, which is why I made the point, it's not wrong to be angry. There are some things you need to be angry about. He made a clear point about that, and God got angry. Jesus cleaned out the temples and people said, what was wrong with him?

Well, he was angry. And he had a right to be. And look, my wife, she gave her seven minutes speech other day of the day. If you were curious, oh, she was angry. She said she was. She was angry in a loving way because she cares about people. And when she sees someone, you know, going back to the outlaw, Josie Wales, when you see injustice in life or abuse of power or those things, yes.

And there's a reason for, you know, why God. God says don't show wrath to other people, but leave room for God's wrath. Where's that at? I think it's first this. It's in Romans 12. Yeah, Romans 12. There is justice coming, and God will take care of that. And I find that comforting that these people who think they get away with things,

you know, they will stand before God. And he will answer that. So that helps me not become so angry to where I. do something stupid because the devil's... Mad, mad people are not... They're not... It's not the fruit that comes forth from them. Right.

It's no good. Right. So anyway, I looked up that second word that's only used here in the entire Bible. Do you find that fascinating? I could not believe in that. One time. But it's this idea of bitterness where you have something in your crawl that you're not going to let go. Yep.

And I think that's why he booked you. ended that with giving the devil a foothole because if you cannot you can spot that by the way you can't get over something that's happened now the evil one can work with that

because no matter what happens that's never going away and you tuck it way down deep inside and I think that's one of the good things counselors do which is why the Holy Spirit's viewed as a counselor because at some point

we're going to have to let that go. Even if it, because of what our purpose is here, and I really think it's an important thing. I've run upon people, quite a number of them, who are mad all the time. They're just mad. Well, exactly. And I walk up and I'm like, well, man, you need to thank it to myself,

but I just quickly offer a prayer for him and keep moving. Yeah, well, within this chapter, I know what the answer to all these problems are, knowing Jesus better and loving Jesus. Yep. When that happens, because that's the description of this entire chapter. Put on the new self created to be like God in true righteousness. I mean, you just look at it, you say you just can't walk around being mad all the time, whatever. We illustrate this a lot with marriage, Jase, because Lisa and I talk to a lot of young couples. And I always go to this passage, even though you think about Ephesians 5 being the marriage passage,

but think about the application of what we're talking about inside a marriage. And I can almost guarantee you that a marriage is going to really struggle when you violate this passage and go to bed angry at one another and don't reconcile it. I mean, I look back on my early years of marriage. I can tell, there were so many nights when Lisa and I were angry with each other. But instead of getting to a point of resolution before we went to sleep, we went to sleep angry. So what happens is you wake up the next morning. It's a little better because you slept on it, but it's still there.

You never dealt with it. That's right. And so then it's easy to let it fester into what your description was, Jason, which was so good. And it becomes bitterness. And once you get that bitter pill, then all of a sudden you open yourself up to all the things that you want to offer is that maybe is something different or better than what you're experiencing now. So you see how insidious he is, which it makes me think about when we talked about lying

at the beginning. Remember Jesus said in John 844, he is the father of lies. So in other words, he's an architect. He was the first one that put this into our mindset is human beings. So he's always going to create a scenario that looks like it's better and looks like it's more attractive. and Zach Mitchell Limerick in the last podcast. It will not work.

It will always lead you to a dead end. Trust me. Well, that's why I thought, because when you get to the latter part of this passage, I'll go ahead and read it because he brings up anger again. When he gets to verse 30, it says, and do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, which whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

We can talk about that in a second, because that's quite a statement. I mean, you have the Holy Spirit inside of you. And the idea of my behavior, my mindset, my heart, grieving, the Holy Spirit is a pretty strong word. Chase, while you're there, because I happen to look this one up, that word for grieve is Lapeo, which is a Greek word. And you know, the only other time it's used is Matthew 26, 37, when Jesus was agonizing in the garden over what he was about to do on the cross, That's the word that Paul uses here to say is happening when you go against the Holy Spirit. That's the weight of that word at that moment, to your point.

And the reason we're bringing all these little details up, because we have hundreds of people come up and say, you know, I just, I just can't quit lying. What should I do about it? Well, we're giving you a lot of ammo. You're like, you're grieving God. Yeah. By doing that. I mean, that's quite a profound thought. Dangerous thought.

And people say, well, I'm angry. I just can't, I can't help it. But a good question is, well, are you angry about things that God is angry at? That's a good question. And another one is you have to leave room for God's wrath. And we have this statement about giving things to God. And there's just some things that are so bad that happens to other humans that makes us angry. That's okay.

But the only thing we can do is leave room for God's wrath. We got to move on and live a life of love in Christ Jesus. I think that's some practical things that will help. Yeah, because, Jay, I did a deep dive at one time about anger. And about 80% of the text in the entire scripture that use the word anger or angry or reference to God. So to your point, most of the Bible, when is somebody's angry, it's usually God in the Bible. Well, but that was my whole point last podcast for bringing up the foundation of all this

because some religious groups have realized that. I mean, two-thirds of Jesus' parables, when he got to the end, he was either talking about the resurrection or standing before God or judgment or hell. I mean, he would throw in the results of that. And so some people read Ephesians, and they start serving an angry God, as in saying, you know, statements like, well, God doesn't love everybody. I didn't know that was actually a controversial thing until I Googled it. But I was fascinated.

I think I would say that out of the top 30 searches for that, I would say 28 of them, maybe out of 30, was saying God didn't love everybody, which I found troubling. Now, those people at which their pastor, they may be pastors at your church, they wrote that. I think they're sincere. They think that that's what the Bible's saying, you know. But I believe they're in error for a statement like that.

Or it's levels of love. They had him where he loves some people more than other people. And I disagree with that profoundly. And I'll go on record for that. But that's why I'm saying they go to passages, you know, about like we're fixed to get to in Ephesians 5 and verse. Where's the one that says, yeah, six, where it says, let no one deceive you with empty words for because of such things. And now the things you're discussing is immoral, impure, or greedy things, but done in a way where they're claiming to be godly. and so they're manipulating, deceiving,

because he's talking about not even a hint of sexual immorality or any kind of impurity, but it says because of such things, God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. So gets back into that before the beginning of time and how God was thinking, and that's where these doctrines came from, and we're trying to put it in the right context,

so you don't. And then Zach, yeah, I thought Zach, really made a good point. I think it was the last podcast about God's wrath is seen in people when when he just steps back and allows them to do and live what they're going to. In other words, they rejected him. Yeah. It didn't mean, it's like my kid when they do something wrong. Well, there may be punishment. There may be wrath in a non, you know, apocalyptic way from me. But I still love them. And even when you get into, you know, like, second or is it first christian is five where they had the uh this sex act that happened

i think it was with a guy it was a it was and his and his stepmother yeah and they're like i mean it's very this is very rare in the new testament where they get into stuff like this but this is something that even the world would be like oh my good how terrible and you can even go watch dateline and one out of ten episodes because They're horrible on what humans have done. But this is real life story. One out of ten is either some pastor or a member of a church somewhere who kills somebody. And you're like, the pastor did it?

I mean, it's almost like unbelievable. And so you're like, this stuff is going on. I mean, there's no doubt about that. And God is angry about it. That wrath conversation is interesting in light of what we've been. talking about in Thesians 4 here, you know, as I've mentioned several times, that this idea that really hell is pursuing what you want and just keep, I mean, just go, you just go after fulfilling your own selfish desires. So be that, be that side of the equation, the, the,

the language that you guys use out of your translation with a continual lust for more. And you say, what prevents me? What prevents me from ending in just completely? complete and utter misery by my own vices. And the answer is the grace of God. So what does it look like if God just pulls back the reins and says, okay, I'm going to lead you to yourself. There's a correlation between this language in Ephesians 4 and Romans 1. That language in Romans 1 when it says the wrath of God is being revealed from heaven

against all godlessness and wickedness of people who suppress the truth by their wickedness for since what may be known about God is plain to them because God's made it plain to them for since the creation of the world. God's invisible qualities is eternal power, divine nature, have been clearly seen and being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse. He hasn't described the wrath yet. The wrath of God that it talks about in Romans 1 starts in verse 24 when it says, therefore, what does that mean? because of them rejecting the truth of God. Therefore, here's the wrath. God gave them over in their sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity,

to degrading of their body. So that was the thing. It was the leaving you to yourself. And you think, what does it look like when I just go do what I want to do? That's God's wrath. And I think in some way, it's probably very descriptive of what hell will be. will be left to your own vices in a world of complete self-consumption. Every man for himself, total isolation, zero community, everybody using everybody,

better have your head on a swivel. That's the description of God's wrath when he leaves us to that. And the opposite of that is what you see in Ephesians 4, which is unity. It's the coming together of. It's community. It's laying down your life for each other. It's dying for each other. It's a much more beautiful picture, you know.

And I think that everybody on some level has to, has to want that. So, Zach, so Zach, I literally lived what you just described. And in my case, it was my earthly father who happens to be on this podcast with us today, who told me at 17 years old, Al, we love you. I mean, you're my son. You know, you've watched my life. but your life now is not living, you're not living in accordance with what we're doing as a family. And you can't stay here and live this way.

And so you gave me a choice. You said you can do the right thing and stay here under the protection of our family, under my roof, or you go and you do what you're going to do. And so I chose to leave. It's interesting because when I took myself out from under the protection of my family, the faith of my family, the faith of my family. family, I totally immersed myself into the life that Zach was just describing. Well, guess where it led me? Right to death's door in less than a year. I was sitting on City Street. Some guy was trying to kill me. And that's where it led me to. And in that moment, I realized, you know what? I think maybe Dad was right. I think I should maybe try to do the right thing.

And so I literally lived what this text is talking about and what you just described that. And it was the idea that the wrath that came on me was a result of my stubbornness, my independence, my anger, which led, of course, to death, which is where this leads. And so it's just a practical picture of what happens. Well, guess what? I submitted myself. I went all in on Christ. And now here I am now, you know, 41 years later, so glad I did.

And dad, so thankful that you gave me that choice. And I know that wasn't easy for you to do, but you did the right. Well, that's why I said, I've made for two days, I remember the point I was going, but real love, that we, the people I think get off thinking, well, God doesn't love everybody because why would he create them if they were going to go to hell? He must not have loved them. No, he did it in Christ. That's why the in Christ, he gave his son for the sins of the world.

There's a stack of verses that you can put under that statement that will be multiple columns. He died for all that those who live should no longer live for themselves. I mean, just one right after another. But God's an eternal being. Bam, he doesn't. And I think Paul was struggling with that like we all do. You remember what he wrote in Romans 9, which a lot of people use this for saying God doesn't love everybody, but to me it kind of makes perfect sense. when he says Romans 920 it says who are you old man to talk back to God shall what is form say to him who formed it why did you make me like this does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use what if God choosing to show his wrath and make his power known bore with great patience the objects of his wrath what does that mean it same as my kid look

I go to my kids. Took a lot of patience. You had to have a lot of patience with me. That's the way this works. We're not happy when our kids are doing wrong things. And if you take out wrath just being anything other than angry or consequences for your actions, it's not really that negative of a thing. 923 of Romans.

What if he did this, this patience with those. that were objects of his wrath. Yeah, prepare for destruction. What if he did this? I mean, it's kind of like Paul's like, what if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory?

Even us, whom he also called, well, now we're back to Ephesians, this live a life worthy of the calling, not only from the Jews, but also for the Gentiles. Do you know what I find fascinating when you keep reading, Romans, you wind up over there in Romans 13 in verse 8, and it goes through the same outline that we just discussed in Ephesians when he says, let no debt remain outstanding except the continuing debt to love one another. For he who loves his fellow man has fulfilled the law.

And remember when we talked a bit about this from the sermon on the Mount, do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be are all summed up in this one rule. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no harm to his neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. And do this understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber.

And a lot of what I'm fixed to read is in Ephesians 5. Because our salvation is near now than when we first believe. The night is nearly over. The day is almost here. so let us put aside the deeds of darkness. You know, we're getting into the new man and old man and put on the armor of light. Let us behave decently as in the daytime,

not in orgies and drunkenness and sexual immorality, debauchery, not in dissension, which is fighting, you know, among people and jealousy. Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature. But you see the same thing, And I think that one profound. It's a great parallel. It's a great parallel.

Of love does no harm to its neighbor. And that's why I say people who get off on this issue, they don't understand what love is. And you're only going to figure it out by looking at Jesus. And now we're back to where we started. What's happening in Christ? All right. We're out of time. So let me read the last two verses, which it says, get rid of all bitterness, rage, and anger,

which, by the way, was the first anger word in, and, Ephesians 4, 26, because I think that's a key point. It's okay to be angry, and there's things we need to be angry about that are loving and godly. But at some point you've got to get rid of it. Brawling and slander, along with every form of malice, be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you. And they shouldn't have put chapter 5 there because the first two verses, think is the better ending because it says,

be imitators of God, therefore. Therefore, be imitators of God as dearly loved children and live a life of love just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. We'll get into that next time. See you. Unashamed.

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