Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 953 | Marital Infidelity Isn’t Just Cheating & Jase Gets Schooled in the Wrong Kind of ‘Catfishing’

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

Jase finds himself in another situation where he’s surrounded by angry people, Phil is glad he doesn’t share that pastime, and the guys start to wonder if a pattern is emerging. Zach enlightens Jase on what “catfishing” is, though it’s certainly not the kind Jase is familiar with. The guys dig into the details of marital infidelity, which includes sins like rage, bitterness, and lying, as well as cheating.  In this episode: Ephesians 5; Colossians 1, verse 10 — Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We kind of continued our discussion from the last podcast through our prepping for this next podcast, this idea of anger and kind of what it leads to. Jay's you had another altercation. I was trying to tell that story not on camera because every time I tell a poker story, when I go out in public, I'll have 17 legalists come up and try to explain to me how poker is dishonest gain. I am not a gambler. So let me, we have to, just like last podcast, we have to have a disclaimer and say, look, we're not saying medication is bad.

We use it. But people abuse it. People in the medical world will, they'll sell you. There's, I mean, there's multiple cases. They over, overuse it. And there's illegal drugs, you know. I mean, it's a problem. So don't be a legalist, but on the poker, it seems to be worse because people think,

oh, my goodness, he's going to lose his house. He's going to do that. I'm like, no, that's how I bought my house. It's not how I'm not going to lose it. That's why I have one. But some people are better in cards than other people. it is a game of skill where you're playing other people. And I've been playing for 40 years.

My grandparents taught me how to play. And I'm very thankful for it. It's a useful thing to function in society. But I was trying to tell a story that, because I played last night, and this guy got angry. I mean so angry over a hand. And I know y'all are not card players, but a lot of people will get the concept and you'll get it.

Because every hand in playing cards is a story. You're telling a story. And people who play as long as I do, the game goes and you've seen tens of thousands of hands. And in my brain, I'm looking at all this and everything's going pretty rapidly in your brain. And then all of a sudden, bump, this doesn't make sense. The story doesn't make sense. and that's where the really good players realize what human nature would do with certain hands and you just know what they have and that's how you went.

So last night there was a hand. Most people are familiar with Texas hold them, so I'll kind of use that illustration. This is a little more complicated game. But the bottom line is I had two nines in my hand. There's four in the deck. You know, there's 52 cards, there's four suits, and then you have ace to a king. So you can have, you know, there's four nines.

There's nine of spades, nine of diamonds, nine of hearts, nine clubs. I have two nines, but I have other cards. But we're only playing our best two cards based on what's out there. So the community cards come out. There's three cards that come out. None of them are a nine. but everybody checked around, which means they didn't bet, and I bet because I thought I'm trying to get information. I'm trying to create the story here.

Who has some of this? Because I sure don't. But if nobody has anything, sometimes they just fold and you'll take the pot down. But to my surprise, almost everybody called. So. Which means they stayed in the hand. Which means they had something here. Yeah.

But they didn't, they're not real confident. in it because they didn't bet it, or they have something big and they're trying to trap you, you know. So since I'm last to act, I received the information I did, and my information was my two nines are no good here. So I'm not betting. But what's weird is the next community card comes out. Well, it's a nine.

Well, that's good for me. Now, does it give me the best hem possible because there's also the cards out in the community can make a straight, which would beat three nines? So when it comes to me, everybody checks again, but I check. Which most people would have bet there because now I hit a card that made my hand way more powerful than it was before. But in this game, you're telling a story. So I've now disrupted the story by doing something that most people wouldn't do. I bet when I had nothing, and now when I have something, I just checked.

Well, guess what the last card was? the other nine. Now, I did not change facial expressions. I didn't reach and grab my chips. I just thought this went from what do they have into how much money am I fixing to make? Because I had the best hand possible. I have four nines. So one of the guys bet pretty big, which told me something,

because I only have 10 seconds to process by the time it gets to me while the other people are thinking. I said, he hit a full house. Because when the board is paired, that means the full house is near. So he could have like, there was a jack out there. He could have two jacks that he's thinking, oh, I hit a boat, you know. Well, it comes to me, what do I do? Raise.

I didn't wait around. I didn't start talking. I just raise pretty substantial. So it comes back to this fella and he says, well, I got a boat. Me and him are the only people in the hand now. He looked at me like, well, I got a boat. So you're like, why is he saying that? Because he's ticked that I raised him.

And he's like, call. So I turned over. I have four cards of my hand, but I just turned over the pertinent two, which are the other two nines, which caused a little bit of ruckus from the table. Whoa. Because that's what you're going after in poker. You want people to be shocked when you turn over something like that.

So this guy says, well, let me see the rest of them. And I thought, well, the rest of them don't matter. I think this is all I need. But he wanted to see, well, what were you betting on before those two, nine's came out. That's what he was angry about. Well, I turned, so I went ahead and turned them over. And he went, you didn't have nothing when you bet. And then he went on about a, I'd say, two-minute tirade about, you're talking about lucky. I mean, you were behind the whole time. So you said, what is that called? That's called angry because you just lost a bunch of money.

You see what I mean? It got personal. You mean I will never food with anything like that? No, I know. But I mean, I go through that hand. That's why there is a pattern that's emerging here, Jase. I mean, you're putting yourself in situations where there's a lot of anger. There's a lot of things going on.

I'm just, this is out of love. Well, you know what I was thinking? I didn't say a word. As I was stacking my recently acquired chips, I thought, play better. Figure it out. Here's the truth. If you want to see anger at a level that is shocking, I figured out where it's at. It's in youth sports because bears play in football.

and I mean the other night there's a guy sitting in front of me that I mean it got so unbearable just the the anger that was being spewed out at the coach primarily the coach but the refs the whole nine yards I mean and I'm just sitting there thinking this high school high school football coaches most of them they don't I mean they're not sitting they're not in it for the money I mean you look at the hourly rate of what these guys are making I'm like you know what I'm not going to do it. it. I mean,

I'm thankful that the guys out there taking us time coming into a program that's been decimated for the last, you know, six years. Like it takes, I mean, it's his first season. I'm like,

I'm not like, you know, I'm not coming in, but manned up. But it does. I think you get in these competitive situations. And you do see it come out. And I,

going back to something you said in a previous podcast, and when you were talking to the guys of the golf course, you got to ask yourself, man, if I'm getting this worked up about, you know, JV football, I need to ask myself this question, like, what kind of life do I have? You know what I mean?

Like, there's got to be more than winning a poker hand and enjoy those things for what they are. Enjoy the golf game. I mean, I enjoy watching my kids play sports. But if they lose, I can promise you one thing. I'm not losing my cool. And I'm not sitting there sweating at the next day. I'm not thinking about the next day.

I want them to win and be successful. But I'm much more interested in the formation of their care. and I want to see my boys become men, you know, my, my daughters to become, you know, young ladies. I mean, I'm more interested than that. Enjoy the competition for what it is, but once you kind of elevate it to that level of where you're losing, you're cool. Yeah. It's, uh, so, it's dangerous. Well, here's what I did.

I reached back because I had my bag at the poker table. And I jotted down right after this hand, because I have my, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, Because I thought, you know, I have a podcast tomorrow, but I got invited to the card game. Wouldn't it be awesome if I could get paid to study for the podcast? And I pulled it off. But after that, so I wrote down anger, because I saw this happen. And I put raise voices, slamming doors, because not long after that, The only way to go to the bathroom is you have to go through the outside door.

And I noticed the sound of the door after that hand made a louder noise than usual when people go out the door. And I thought, yep, still better. There was more energy. You're saying there's more energy being exerted in the shutting of the door than normal. Yep. And then it was because then the guy never said another word to me the rest of the night. So I put down silent treatment. Yep.

Because sometimes it's not just with words, you know, unwholesome talk. I mean, this is, I got all this from the text, you know, four letter words, negative, putting down, you know, because there was quite a few insults in how I played the hand, you know. Manipulation, and it created an uncomfortable setting. And then I put in parentheses for kids. Like if kids were watching, they would be like, it's uncomfortable. You know, the game's supposed to be fun. We're not losing or playing for any amount of money that's going to hurt anybody, you know?

But it's just, it's that competition. And when you're dealing with people and you feel like you got tricked, which is what it felt like because that was the design of the story. It was a trick, you know. Well, it's a game. That's part of the game. Yeah, it's part of the game. It's the only place that I know as a Christian that lying is part of the game.

Now, you can, you know, if you don't, it's not like your lying, but it's just like if you don't show your cards, it's acceptable. Do you know the game, Mafia? No, I would never play a game named Mafia. Yeah, there's a game called Mafia that the kids play. There's a whole lot of lying in that. Well, we need a team meeting over that. And my kids came into me when they were there and said, hey, dad. You want to play Mafia with me?

I'd say, sit down here, son. Let me tell you something. There's two kinds of godfathers out there. One is the creator of the universe and you. The other are into crime. Extortion. So, yeah, extortion. It's a game.

Murder. It's a game. So that's my take on that. So out on Mafia. That was a game of deceit. Well, I want to clarify this, though. You said it. We've all said.

it. Phil said it in the last podcast. You said it and one before that. Being angry in and of itself, just to clarify, is not a sin. Mark 11, Jesus himself got angry. The Bible says when he went to the temple and saw that they had turned it into a den of robber. They had taken. Jesus, and you took this temple that my father's house that was actually meant to be a place for all of the nations to come together and to worship him. him, you've taken that and turned it into something that it wasn't supposed to be. You turned it into a den of robbers. And he was extremely angry. And I'm sure that his voice was elevated. He was turning over tables. So there is a righteous anger.

To your point, you know, earlier, I think you quoted the scripture, says, in your anger, in your anger, don't sin. So it's obviously drawn a distinction between anger and then you can sin in the anger or you can have what's righteous anger. So there is, just to clarify again, there is a righteous anger. And anger in and of itself is not the issue. It's not the problem. It's what do you do out of that? Even the story Jay's told, you know, like if you would react strongly if the way it worked out in a card hand, the story, as Jay describes it, that you lost when you really thought

you had a good chance to win. And it just kind of lined up against you. The idea of it shocking you or even you being angry that you, you know, you got kind of the raw end of the hand is one thing. But then it was the stuff you wrote in your book. It was the reaction. So why in verse 31, Ephesians 4, he had already talked about anger, but then he says get rid of bitterness, rage and anger together, brawling and slander and malice. So those are all reactions that come from anger. And that's where you start getting into the problem.

It's the way it goes from there. And so the point we were making in the last podcast is that now people are through science, through Big Pharma, even political. I was going to bring this up last time. You know, the whole Robert F. Kennedy, I mean, Robert Kennedy Jr. joining with Trump, his whole thing is what we've been talking about. He believes strongly that Big Pharma is out to really harm. people and harm children in particular. That's his big thing. And so the reason he, a lifelong Democrat, joined him with Trump, is because he sees an opportunity if Trump gets elected to deal with this particular issue

that we were talking about, we're offering another solution. We're offering a spiritual ultimate solution. But then at the same time, we deal with it. And I know some people I list the podcast, what qualifies you for people, you know, to talk about mental health? Well, one of the things that qualifies us is we have had a life of dealing with mental health. health issues in our family. You saw it in the blind. I mean, we've dealt with it. So we understand the idea of dealing with things that seem under control. And we also understand the idea of, you know, medicine can help. But if you have a foundation of that which is spiritual, you can deal with anything, including lifelong mental health, dementia, and a lot of other things that we've

dealt with in our family. We're saying that's the way to deal with everything as a foundation. Start with the Holy Spirit being in you. Start with imitating Christ and being different, and you won't react the way the world does to everything else. And I think that becomes the foundation of this text, but also how we're living our lives and what we're trying to offer people as a beginning point. Because we know depression is real. We know people are struggling out there. We're just saying there's a starting point that's way better than just what a doctor is going to prescribe you. It's so funny because we were talking about the concept of limer.

in a previous episode when we were in Ephesians 4 there was that idea of I forgot what that is so explain that. It's like a I guess it's a clinical term I mean how you said you had heard it

used with what's the guy's name? Joe Bean. Is there any alternate pronunciations? Can you use it in the form of a sentence? I cannot. Do we have a bail? Limer. Do we have a bail?

Lemurance. is a state of mind that involves an involuntary, obsessive attachment to another person. It's similar to addiction and other compulsive behaviors and can feel like an intense form of love that's irrational, intrusive, and involuntary. Limit's is different from love or lust because it's based on the uncertainty that the low also desires you. that you're such a you're such a intellectual let's talk about limerance i mean but jace that you did the simple word i think in the last

podcast it's a high it's just a different yeah it's a high well let's just say that because i'm not going to look at something but i was trying to i wanted to repeat what the counselor had told me well you know what i should have told that guy when he said well what are you doing i said quit being like a limerent Yeah, that's why I didn't want to use it in a sentence because I don't think I think you pictured that. Maybe not. Well, let's just do this from down.

If you can't use it in a sentence, let's just not use it. Well, typically I would, but this one, I just had this conversation that was relevant to the discussion because, you know, you think about like when people get into like affairs, for example, in the irrationality that comes out of that. And you, in a pastoral role, I mean, I guarantee you, I could. probably asked you the question and we have the same answer, all of us would. How many times have you heard someone say when they're in that position and they justify their infidelity by saying something like God wants me to be happy, some version of that?

I've heard it a thousand times, one thousand times at least. It's just like it's like a pattern that you see. And they, oh, and oh, I married the wrong person. We didn't, we made a mistake. I never really loved them. And then they had this revisionist history of their entire marriage. It's like the same exact story over and over and over again. And over the last 20 years of walking with people in this,

I just started to think, man, maybe there's the same script writer on all of these stories. And maybe his name is Satan. You know, maybe he's lying to us. Yeah. Now you're getting that. I remember one night my wife and I was talking to a couple that were contemplating in a divorce. And one of them said, we've never, we've never.

we've never loved each other. And I just, I didn't mean anything by it, but I said, well, how did you have those kids? Because I was thinking, if you've never loved each other, I mean, you got a house full of kids, you know? And I remember them just looking at me, kind of dumbfounded like, that's a good question. And I just, I said, baby, you're exaggerating,

you know, the current situation. And using a blanket statement of we've never loved each other. I was like, well, you got a house full of kids at some point. Did they drop out of the sky? Or was that not approved by both parties, which they didn't, you know, of course not. But it was like maybe it was a limerick moment, I guess. I'm not, I read the definition and I'm really still not sure what it means. Well, it's what it is in the context of an affair.

it's the false and not real connection that the people who have the affair that they have reached. It's not real. It's actually, it's limerence. It's not a real connection. It's an irrational connection that's built. It feels like it's real. It feels very powerful. It feels extremely intoxicating.

But it's not real. And eventually once the, once it's all done, you wake up in bed next to this person that you had this affection for. we're going to, oh my gosh, I'm in the same boat I was before this affair started with my previous person. It's consuming, I get it consumes you. Which is why those divorces tend to pile up for people who are just looking for limerance in relationship after relationship because you keep realizing you're the same person.

I would compare it's similar to pornography and endorphins that are released. And again, that's another fake things. I mean, if someone's looking at it. it feels real in the moment because, you know, it's affecting me in my psychology and the endorphins are being released in my brain, but we know it's not real. Well, it's like where that's how the sexting got started. You know, once you, it's the people are excited. Nothing's really happening.

You're just typing words on a script, but it's so graphic that it becomes addictive and it's being played out in your mind and you just get into it. and waste huge amounts of time, you know. And then there's the meeting, you know, and then it turns out it wasn't even the person. Oh, you envision. Yeah, it's like, oh, what happened here? Well, you know, you just waited, wasted two years of your life pursuing, you know,

some guy named Jacob that you thought was Victoria stripping down. It happens. It's a whole TV show, Bob. But look, but here's where it's called catfishing, but not the kind of catfish. Yeah, we're not noodling catfish like we're talking. Phil's not opalism. C smokes coming off Phil's head because he's like, I've never seen that in the cat fishing. We're all there.

Like the, you know, the connection to the text is, is in that Ephesians 4 where it says, the language is it's the futility of, of their minds. Yeah. Darken in their understanding. And it also says, Empty words, the one that says empty words, which I think is just like, hmm, where's that where it says empty words? Oh, it's a, Ephesians 5, 6th, let no one deceive you with empty words. Yeah, because it's in such things God wrath. Yeah, because it's in the context of sexual immorality, all kinds of impurities are greedy.

Well, you just think about it. You were convinced this is the way to go. the empty words, I thought about that sexting, you know, is that, that, that is the definition. Yeah. It's like empty, it's an illusion. Hollow, uh, the Colossian says it's hollow and deceptive philosophy, which also, if you read in that text, it has a, um, a picture of, of sensuality. You know, they give themselves over, you know, to the, a higher level of sensuality.

And I think that's the, if you look at like the, the two lanes that are going here, it's, he's pointing at like one way of living versus another way of living. And you see it in like, don't do these things, not because these are just these arbitrary rules that God came up with. He's actually saying, there's a pathway to death. And here's a pathway to life.

And life is in him through the power of the Holy Spirit. So all we're really saying is, I mean, it's pretty simple. We're just saying that the Holy Spirit is the agent of God. He is God who reveals to us. the pathway to life, which is himself. That's why I love in the previous podcast, we ended it with the fruit of the spirit.

And I love what you said at the end, Jay. So you remember what you said at the very end of that? No. You said, which is Jesus, a description of Jesus. Oh, yeah. Well, that's the big thing that I wanted to get to in today's podcast, because he spent the first three chapters talking about in Christ 36 times. He gave multiple appeals about knowing him better.

And then now he's leading to all these practical things that the church does in dealing with other people that's fixing to lead to marriage and kids and the social aspects of life. But really, Jesus's DNA becomes real evident. And I noticed this when I was studying last night in between card hands. that you know what the three things that are really highlighted in chapter five come out that he's mentioned before love life how you live and light well what is the book of john about yeah those three things the book of john about jesus is all about he's the light of the world I am the resurrection and the life. How much he talks about live.

Greater love has no one than he lay down his life for his friends. I mean, John 316. God so loved the world. I gave my flesh for the life of the world. This is Jesus's DNA in us through the Holy Spirit. And what did Jesus do more than any other thing? He interacted with people and not just people. every kind of person from the sickly to the most powerful to political leaders to religious people

to a woman at the well from people called in sin from the demon possessed and all these different interactions with every conceivable imaginable person and so when you read these list of all these things and to think that Jesus never did one of these negative things is incredible. Yep. So, I mean, I think that's really what this is all about because it's going to, it's like he gets to the midway point of chapter five and he's like, look, you got to submit to one another in 21 out of reverence for Christ, which makes you realize how submissive and humble he was and dealing with all these people and how he kept his tongue.

He didn't say anything unwholesome. He wasn't doing any kind of back behind the scenes, sexual immorality, or you didn't care about money from a greed standpoint, although he talked about it a lot. And then it's like, oh, by the way, and then he gives this picture of marriage that leads to us being married to Christ, but I just thought about in our marriage.

Everything that we've read before in Chapter 4 and five is really leading up to that defining the roles in marriage. But most people when they teach on marriage, they go to chapter 5 and verse 22 through the end. But just think of all this stuff that are in our marriages as far as bitterness, rage, anger, slander, you know, every kind of form of malice saying things that, you know, raising your voice, fits of rage, hints of sexual immorality, greet, What do we fight about? We fight about money, sex, power, impurity.

I mean, it's like all these things we're just here about relationships. And then we're like, well, do I have to submit to my husband or what does that mean? I mean, it's like all of a sudden then we just forget our brains and realize that most of the stuff that's causing all the problems have nothing to do with how God define our roles, but it's more with our heart. and how we're responding to daily issues. Well, it's hard to answer some of these questions, these cultural questions around this text and other things because you just say, okay, I have a question, and I'm going to ask a question in this context.

What does the Bible say about this? And then I'm going to wait to answer it until I get over here in my cultural context. I'm going to answer it over here. And you're like, man, that sounds horrible. Well, yeah. Yeah, that's a good depiction of that. That is. It's like you can't, like, that's the hard thing about these discussions is because if you try to answer that question, like, for example, about roles in marriage and you want to, you're asking it, what does the Bible say?

And let me interpret it in 2024 American culture. Well, yeah, it sounds horrible. But you don't even understand the basics of who God is and is try you nature. Like, we got to go back and like, you got to understand what he's doing here. Oh, exactly. And I think, I think one of the biggest things that is. that we have missed in the teachings of the church, and at least in my lifetime,

and how I grew up, was we have separated out the word life from the kingdom. And we don't see that they're interchangeable when Jesus used them. If you look in Mark chapter 9, there's that really hard passage where Jesus says, if you're, I think he starts, if your hand causes you to sin,

he's like, cut it off. He said, it is better for you to enter life. Here's the phrase, to enter life crippled than with two hands and go to hell. If your foot causes you to do the sin, what does you say to cut it off? It's better for you to enter life, lame, than with two feet to be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, he says, tear it out, better for you to enter the kingdom of God. So Jesus uses the term kingdom of God to enter the kingdom of God and to enter life, He uses it interchangeably.

And I think that's the thing that's so hard for us to get is we understand that life itself is in the kingdom of God. Life is the kingdom of God. Why? Because that's where the king's at. So when the Holy Spirit is revealing to us the way to life, he's not revealing to us a way for us to exist autonomously on our own forever. No, that's hell. What he's revealing is he's revealing his own nature. What is the nature of the triune God?

And that's what the Holy Spirit is revealing to us. And he's saying, this is where life is. And if you really want all the things that your heart was made for and that your desires were created for and that your longings were created for, if you really want that, let me tell you where it's at. It's only in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and you are invited in to participate in me. That's the offer. That's the offer from the Holy Spirit.

And I think that's, we have to get this. All these texts are going to sound ridiculous. I think you got to remember, though, in Chapter 4, this is what, all this stuff we're talking about practical life and relationships and the Holy Spirit was launched because of the role of the church in our world with people. people. We're supposed to reveal God's presence on earth through how we interact with people. And something Al said in the first segment that popped in my brain when he said, you know, how are we qualified even to talk about, you know, the medical world or drugs. And he, rightfully so, we've had a history of mental illness in our family and dealt with all that. But I think you can make that argument about anything because most people respond who are under the influence of the

evil one their initial response when you try to challenge their life is well who do you think you are you're you're perfect i mean you're a hypocrite but i think a sister passage to what we're reading in ephesians four is in colossians and i wanted to read this because it popped in my brain and he he ends up in the same place course paul wrote colossians also but when he prayed in verse 10 of chapter 1 he said i pray that pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the lord does that sound familiar phoesians 5 1 and 2 Ephesians 4 1 and 2 also and then it says and may please him in every way which is the bottom line we're trying to please god which is always especially when you before we get into your roles

in your family because you know sometimes even in my family i've had people in my family, so, well, you're not taking my side. You're not supporting me. And I've had to tell my wife and all my kids at some point, rarely, because most of the times they may have a point. But there have been a few occasions that I'm the leader of the family. I'm like, I'm trying to please God first. So the reason I'm not supporting this idea is I don't think it's godly, you know, which is a very difficult conversation to happen. But I do think that's number one. We're married to Jesus also.

And so if something is not in line in how we're acting or what we're going to do that's good for God, you know, I'm out, despite whatever, how strongly you may feel about it, you know. So then it says bearing fruit and every good work as you grow. in the knowledge of God, just like Ephesians, where he says, get to know Jesus better, being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience and joyfully given thanks to the Father. Well, here's the statement I wanted. Who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light?

So that's why we're qualified. And God gives us his spirit, and that qualifies us. So we're, read that last line again. He has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light. And I want to bring up this light action because when he gets midway through Ephesians 5, when he says have nothing, in verse 11, have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness. Well, that's basically where our Christianity ends a lot of times. But he doesn't end there. He says, but rather expose them.

And then in Ephesians 512, you know, he says it's shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But this is one of my favorite texts in the book of Ephesians is this Ephesians 513. And it's like a formula that he gives that only the Holy Spirit could write something this beautiful. It says, but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, for it is light that makes everything visible. So in another version says that once it's illuminated, it becomes

visible. And Christ is the one that's illuminating it. So that's his point there on the qualify. But then, where does he go in Colossians? He says, for he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness, brought us into the kingdom of the

son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins, Then he goes through who Jesus is, one of the most famous passages in the Bible, 115 through 20. It says, you know, he's the image of the invisible God. All things were created by him, for him, on heaven and earth, visible, invisible, thrones, powers, rulers, authorities. All things were created by him and for him.

He is before all things. In him, all things hold together. But then he, then to my point in verse 18 of Galosians, and he is the head of the body. the church. He's the beginning and the first born from among the dead so that in everything he may have the supremacy for God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven by making peace through his blood. So I'm saying that is the response as church people. We are qualified

to expose things done in secret and in darkness. And God, you, uses that for his good. That's the difference in, oh, I'm just trying not to be angry. It's like, no, we need to get that out and expose it and deal with it, and Christ can forgive you, and then we'll make it a testimony for Him and the power of God. Yeah, and we're not prescribing medicine for you, and we're not telling you to get off any medicine and go to see your doctor about that, but that's not what we are qualified to have a discussion, you know, we are qualified to share with what's in scripture.

And I was saying another qualification is that, you know, if you are a believer in Christ and have the Holy Spirit, the Bible says that you're a priest. So you're part of a priesthood. So that gives you a qualification as well to go into the world and proclaim the kingdom. You know, now we're not, we're not, we're not, none of us are speaking with any authority on any of this. I mean, we have no authority other than the word rightly lived and the word rightly taught. I mean, we don't have any, like, divine revelation that's outside of scripture that we're like, oh, God told me and now I can tell you. I mean, if you have the Spirit of Jesus, you're actually speaking on His authority. All authority on heaven earth has been given to him, and you have His spirit in you.

So in the name of Jesus, I do, I mean, he's qualified you. I think you can speak. Because if you go down that road saying you can never share Jesus with somebody, because you're sinful, well, now you're viable. well, now you're violating the whole reason and means of how he's reconciling the world. And it always becomes, it comes back to that submissive heart. Well, that's why he said that. Yeah, submit to one another out of reverts for Christ. Exactly. And so that becomes, you both mentioned earlier in something so true,

people's approach to the Bible. If you look at it as the simplicity of Jesus, his Holy Spirit, and this is the way he wants me to live, instead of going to the Bible and say, well, what does the Bible say about divorce? And that becomes your framework to go into it, usually to try to prove something you want to do or not do, based on something that's going on inside your heart. It's a terrible way to approach the scripture.

But if you studied in the context of as it was written by the Holy Spirit, your heart is prepared and you'll realize when something is fake and when something he isn't. And, Zach, you said this earlier. It was such a good point. You said the evil one. when you see a movement of something that doesn't make sense, or Jase, you described, it's a story that doesn't, you're watching it unfold, but something doesn't seem right.

That means that the evil one is somewhere working in that. So usually when you look at that fake thing and you see it, because you mentioned love, life, and light in the book of John. And Jesus also was very clear in the book of John 8, when he talked about Satan being a liar from the beginning and a murder. And then in John 10, he said he came to kill, steal, and destroy. And he gives us a clear idea. So when you see people react in a way that sinful and wrong, when I look at that,

I don't just like get mad at the end and say, oh, that guy, you know, I say, oh, man, that's so sad. He's submitted to the evil one, which is why he's reacting with dark behavior and dark things. And so when you can look at people and he just needs some light, he needs to understand who God is. And it'll change everything for this person instead of being so bitter and angry and responding the way you do and following after these false things. So it's really understanding the clarity of who Jesus is versus who the evil one.

Well, because you hit on the text there that what you described is in 5-5 when he said, for this you can be sure, no immoral, impure, or greedy person. And then he has a little dash here and says, such a man is an idolater. And you say, well, why would he say that? Because those things do not characterize Jesus, the Son of God. You're not deceiving. Because remember, when he started off this saying in verse 3, there shouldn't even be a hen of sexual immorality.

So, I mean, they're living in emphasis. There's a lot of sex going on. There's a lot of money being made, and there's a lot of impure things that are happening behind, walls. And so they're trying to say, okay, I'd love to go to heaven, but I've got to figure out how to justify these impulses that I have, and that's what's the going thing around here, which is what everyone is saying creates happiness and joy, and it matches with

your internal cravings. And so you become an idolatier by trying to change what are not character traits of God. into your life. And so you change God into, okay, I'll take the stuff that I like, going to heaven that's in, which is kind of what we do in modern day. But the stuff I want to do in my normal life, I mean, gee whiz, it's not necessarily wrong if I'm sexting someone that's not my wife because we're technically not doing anything. And I think that's why this passage is here.

And I think this is all going to lead us into, I thought, I heard an interesting sermon on Jezebel and Ahab, because here was a union, a marriage that was, they were married, and they were very powerful. But it was a marriage for the evil presence, you know. And even to the point of Jesus brings up the spirit of Jezebel in Revelation, I think it was Thightire in one of those churches.

So I went back and just started reading that story. And I mean, it is the most horrifying couple that has ever lived that I've read. And the sermon I heard was very interesting because he made a point that it all started and they didn't even have the roles right. She was a controlling woman. He was a real passive husband. And she would use sex and influence as a weapon to get whatever she wanted. And even to the point of, you know, he came, I think it's First Kings 21.

He was mad and angry and didn't do anything about it because he couldn't get this piece of land somewhere. And so he was over pouting in the corner. And she's like, well, I'm going to take care of it. Well, so she murdered the guy who wouldn't sell him the land. I mean, she's committing murder because he won't stand up and be a leader, you know. And she's like, there you go. You know, you got it. And so then as all these curses from Elijah is put on,

you know, Elijah exposed them. And I really think you see that contrast leading up to marriage and how you can have a functional marriage that's evil versus having a godly marriage where roles are defined and you're trying to show the character of God. No, and when you see that, that verse that says, Jason 5, 7, do not be partners with them. that's the whole idea is that we don't we don't want to live in this you know partial immoral

you know innuendo life life with people we don't want to do that we want to expose that exactly yeah exactly to show something different that was my point I should have said is that she was highly religious they were worshiping bail and you everything was justified it wasn't I mean they were murdering people sex immorality all these things going on but it was all done in name of religion. And we tend to think, oh, these people are out in the world. No, he's addressing people who are claiming to be members of the church who are functioning like this. And I got news for you. The same thing is going on today. And the thing about it is it always leads to bad places, which, you know, it's this whole idea, the one word that I would hope our audience

gets from all this on the negative side is fake. It's, there's, there's no. There's no substance. There's no reality. And that's why when you chase after these things, whatever it is, that's fall. And he mentions almost everything that you can deal with in our lives in this text in chapter four and five. I mean, it's all there. But when something is real, when something is substantial in the relationships we're

about to talk about, we get to chapter six, the idea is those are the things that will carry through the long haul. That's how you make a difference. Let's say you make a stand. Those things are tangible. And even though times are difficult, you hang in there and do the right thing. Trust me, you will realize the substance of a real relationship and having, you know, a real one with your wife and not some other person that the evil one is put into your path.

Yeah. And I think those, I want to, I know I only have one more minute left, but I wanted to bring up those three Ls again that described Jesus in the book of John here in Ephesians. You know, in Ephesians 5, 2, he says, live a life of love, just as Christ loved us. Then in verse 8, he says, you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of the light. You know, and it starts to talk about exposing all these hidden secrets that we all have and struggle with.

That's our first inclination is to cover this up. You know, how you live matters, and we all make mistakes. but it's not like he doesn't have a way to deal with that. You bring it out in the light, let's deal with it, and move on, you know, as we declare Jesus. No, that's good. And we kind of popcorned through Chapter 5. We'll dive in a little bit deeper next time, but you see the gist of exactly what he was laying out. It's a very, very powerful stuff.

So we'll talk more about it next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to blazed TV at blaztv.com slash unashamed.