Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 955 | Jase Shifts His Views on Demonic Spirits & the Best Advice for Visiting Las Vegas

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Jase realizes that his studies have shifted his views on the presence of the demonic, and his trips to Las Vegas for annual trade shows result in hard-earned advice for anyone who visits Sin City. The guys connect the themes between Jesus’ relationship with the church and how relationships between men and women should be, and Phil wants to make sure that the next generation gets all the best marriage guidance on offer. Zach gives insight into divorce customs in ancient Judaism and compares them to modern perspectives on divorce and marriage.  In this episode: Ephesians 5, verses 1-20 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We were talking through our last podcast in between recording the next one. And, you know, this idea, Jay, this Greek word you found, which is really interesting. I think it was profound. It literally changed my view. When I hear people get up and start preaching, they're like, you know, we got these demonic spirits out there.

you know, and then I'm kind of do the OI roll and think. How do we know? How do we know? It's very nebulous. But after seeing that, why throw that word in there where Jesus used exclusively talking about

the casting out all these spirits? You know, remember at the graveyard with the guy who was chained? Yep. Same word. The pigs going down and drought. Same word. Then you get in a revelation and you're hearing all this.

the spirit of Babylon under Rome and their children with the unclean spirits, basically spawning legacies of curses with a breakdown of the family. And it's just this spiritual war that's going on and declaring war against churches and God's people. And the context, by the way, if you didn't hear this, the previous podcast, was Ephesians 5.3, where Paul says, among you there must not be even a hint of sex and morality or any kind of impurity. That's the word Chase is referring to. Do you know what it made me? You know what it made me realize is when he says in verse 7, don't be partners with them?

Because a lot of people, they'll read Ephesians 5 and they're single. They're like, what doesn't apply to me? Now, after reading this, you're married to something. Yep. Yeah. You're married to the, because you have a spiritual force of evil world, and you have God's Holy Spirit and his world in the body of Christ. You're married to one or the other, and unlike our podcast, there's no points in between

ZZ Top. That's what we do. Look, you have a special segment for the podcast and call it all things in between. There's a ZZ Top song. There are some things in there that we don't want out there. I mean, you know, those are like the raw conversations. Zach, at this point, do we have any pride or embarrassment or shame, Lill? That's true.

You can't do a thousand episodes and not, you know, we've, I mean, we probably, there's so much dirt in this podcast you can get out of us. But, you know, I was thinking that when you were talking about that picture of this impurity, I just keep thinking of this framework of Ephesians. it really is the impurity and the immorality or the demonic attack. It's all meant, like, what's the end goal? The end goes death, obviously, but it's death by division. It's death by separation. Yep. It's death by alienation.

It's death by loneliness. It's death by isolation. And then the opposite is true of life in Christ. What is life? It's life through unity. Life through community, life through communion, life through connection. So everything that the other is not is what Christ is offering. So when you get to the end of it, I just look this up in the New Living Translation,

when he says, this is a great mystery. It's verse 32. This is how it says in the NLT version. But it's an illustration, talking about husband and wife being one. It's an illustration of the way Christ and the church. church are one. And you think about that whole thing about this whole book of Ephesians, there's so much in here about oneness bringing these two different people groups together, Jew and Gentile, into one body. And I think that we can't overestimate Paul's emphasis here

of that there's life in oneness. There's life in unity, life in connection, life in community, because that's who God is. Well, there's no doubt. But I also think that when you read this, it kind of gives you a playbook, an introduction to what a godly marriage is, revealing that God is creator. There's more to it than husbands and wives because he leaps from wives and husbands and the advice. And then goes to the children. Children obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise,

that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy life, long life on the earth. Well, think about it. What is the best thing? There's a lot hanging on marriage between a man and a woman in the church. What is the best thing a child can see? It is that his mom and dad have separated themselves from any hint of a relationship. that does not involve each other. They love each other.

That's the best thing they see is they love each other. And the best thing that the two that love each other can do is love God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength and their neighbor is their self. So that is the picture that kids can see, which is the greatest advice. Those are the big things. Which also is the very mechanism through which new worshippers of the all, Almighty God are created is through this union. And so you think, man, I wonder why there's such a, why is a main focal point, it seems

like on everything in society, like where are our division points at? They all revolve around sexuality, family, and life. And that's why, because this is the battle right here. What you're seeing in Ephesians 5 is that because this is the true reflect, the most pure reflection, I would argue, of who God is. Is it, is it a pure reflection? No, because we have sin. And it's really hard for us to understand concepts like oneness, mainly because even in the best of our marriages, we still position ourselves against our spouse. And I mean, I do it. I still do it. I mean, I would say Jill and I have a great marriage, but there's still manipulation that goes on

on on both sides. There's still positioning that goes on. There is still like, like, I just, Two weeks ago, we got in a big fight. It was like one of those two-day fights. And I was ignoring her and she was ignoring me. Then it became this, you know, you get into those. But what is that? Like that's positioning. That's not the picture of who God is in his inner life.

So, you know, we had to both repent of that and come back and confess that to each other and find unity. But the picture of what God is, there is none of that. There's no like positioning against one another. So when we talk about submission, for example, submission sounds bad in a world, and it is bad in a world where people take advantage of you. But in the context of who God is, submission is not a bad word. That's why he says submit to one another. And then he calls for the submission of a woman to man or wife to husband. But there's a lot of submission going around in this Ephesians Five passage.

It's not a one-way submission. I would add that to the discussion. it set up beautifully, both of y'all went to Genesis 2 and 3 in the last podcast, and you see that there. Literally, they were made from each other. But Paul went there. Yeah, exactly. And the reason why is because when you see the breakdown, Zach, you talked about disunity

and how it divides. You're exactly right. And where did it start with wanting to know evil? And the first people it divided was the first husband and the first wife. But look, there's no accident that we just get the next chapter in Genesis we get Genesis 4. Well, guess who got affected next? Two sons. One of them gets jealous of the other one, you know, because his sacrifice is too godly.

And what does he do? He kills his brother. And then we go another two chapters and what happens? The whole world is so full of violence in two chapters. I don't know how much time that was, but in two chapters in the Bible that God said, I'm grieved. I even made humanity. Exactly.

I mean, that's how quickly it gets out of control. But even that graphic thing trickles down into our lives, which was what Zach was talking about. I call that, you know, when you're mad, you're like, I'm going to be silent. But you're, I call it violently silent. It's violence, silence. Because you're so angry, especially for somebody like men, Zach, you know, we can't help but talk. And so the amount of restraint that we. We're showing, and I'll go two days and won't utter a word.

It's almost borderline miraculous, how I can tap into the evil world and do something that's almost impossible. That's that impurity you were talking about earlier. Exactly. And I'm saying you see a train here of when you want to have unrestrained sex and you want unlimited amounts of money, you create a system. That's why he said such a man is an idolater and you tap into the demonic forces on this planet to justify it in the name of whatever your religion is. And I mean, I'm saying there's a religion of the world. We try to put labels on it. But it is justifiable homicide, immorality, pornography. That's just what it is. And so the answers are really simple because people say,

I just don't know what to do. Oh, I know what to do. I mean, especially when you're in the husband-wife relationship because now we have digital phones that give you unlimited access, you know, what you would call triggers to your sexual impulses. And it's just available 24-7

and you just get lost in it. You say, what's the problem with that? It's like, do not be partners with them. There has to be a separation. This woman who's getting paid for this and taking your money, she's not your wife. That is the answer.

It's not some, I just don't know what my problem is. That woman who you're viewing in a pornographic way, which is out there, she's not your wife. It's false. This is false. And however you've justified it,

gets into the debonic world. And then Job's point, way back in the ancient days, was by the way, his pornography, they were wearing, you couldn't see them with their eyes and their ankles. And he said,

I made a covenant not to look at a girl lessily, and that's why. And then he said, well, how would you like somebody sleeping with your wife and doing the thing? That's the way he put it. The context of this is McGregan was right. You know, it's God against the gods, little geez. And look at their setting. This is Vegas. This is the dirty poppers, which to define the dirty popper, you can't go.

Missy said they outlawed now, so I don't know. I haven't been to Vegas in a while. but you know these guys are standing on street corners and they'll pop their leg to get your attention and then hand you a card with the naked woman on it yeah saying come here and all your aspirations and dreams will come true yeah but you look on the sidewalk and there's just hundreds you know that have people that didn't want a hint that declined the offer but they did take it so that's what i always tell people i say when you go for go to Vegas you Keep your hands in your pocket. That's exactly right. Keep your head down and get to your destination with your wife, your Bible, and your duck calls. Because the offer here, I think the misleading perspective on this is that this is some kind of oppressive rule structure that Paul's laying out here. And if you see it that way, you really miss the entire thing.

This is not about oppression of anybody, particularly women. It's actually about liberation. And there's another time that this Genesis passage is referenced, it's in Mark 10. This is when Jesus was actually talking about marriage, and he was set up by the Pharisees, and they were going to trap him in this question about marriage. And in chapter 10, verse 2, it says some of them, they came and tried to trap him with this question. Should a man be allowed to divorce his wife? And Jesus answered them with a question, well, what did Moses say in the law about divorce?

Well, he permitted it, they replied. He said a man can give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away. Well, if you go back and do the research on what that was written in Deuteronomy, but it was, it was, they could divorce their wives for any, pretty much any, any reason they wanted to. And so you go back and read it and understand the context of when Moses gave this, it wasn't actually a command. It was actually a concession because of their hard heart. So Jesus takes this. So think about if you're a woman in this. culture and your spouse could divorce you for any reason whatsoever.

Moses instituted a concession in that for the protection of women. But then when Jesus comes in, he kind of explains this further in verse five. He says, well, he wrote this commandment only as a concession to your hard hearts. That's why he wrote it. It wasn't like God commanded this from the beginning. This was a concession that he made because your hearts were so evil and they were so hard and you were putting these women out for no reason, and they had no means of income or anyone to take care of them.

So you had to put this stuff in a place. But then he further explains it in the same way Paul does. He says, but God made them male and female. So again, going back to the Genesis account from the beginning of creation, this explains, this explains why a man leaves his father and mother

and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one. There's that language of oneness again. So they are no longer two, but one, and let no one split apart what God has joined together. And I love that picture that Jesus is painting. He's elevating the whole discussion, and this was actually very liberating for women because they were really severely abused, I would argue, in that culture, because they were allowed just to be kicked to the curving. Jesus, his ethic is just a much greater ethic, and it resolves by the way in the culmination of life. Yeah, I think we're going to get to that pattern.

When you get to the roles, it is a reflection of our relationship with Jesus. Because you think about it, when you look at this as Christ in the church first, then you get into what Phil read last podcast about Colossians 3 when it says, we're all baptized into Christ and we put on Christ. But then it says there's neither Jew and Greek, slave, free male nor female you know we're all equal in christ and so a lot of people i think go there and misuse that saying well there's no roles and we're all we're all equal but no we have roles because of that fact just like god jesus and the holy spirit you think about and and we read earlier in

ephesians three where when when paul prayed to the father from whom all families in heaven and on earth derives its name. I mean, the essence of God is a family, and the reason it is a family dynamic, because if he's love, love must be shared, and if love is shared, somebody's going to have to humble themselves, be unselfish and sacrifice. Well, now you get into Jesus's role. That's why when you read the Gospels, Jesus kept acting like, even to the point he said, God, my father's greater than me. And people say, oh, my goodness, what does that mean? Is he saying he's not? He's saying he's not. God or what he had a role and he had no problem He had no problem submitting in that role he submitted and surrendered in the role and so then when you read

Ephesians 5 when you people can't get past you know the word submit after he just said speaking of how the church functions in all these things you know submit to one another at a reverence for Christ women what is your role submit your your husband should lead that's the impression. But so then it gets to the men, which I think Paul's audience, the women love this because they were being oppressed from every angle. The men were the ones grumbling there because now all of a sudden you get a picture that they got to be like Christ and be willing to die for their wife. They're like, no, I'm out on that. And not just die physically, but die every day by serving. It's an amazing thing. It's the attitude, Philippians, too. It's the, it's the

attitude of Christ Jesus, who being in the very nature, God didn't consider equality with God, something to be grasped, made himself nothing, became a servant. So you read that Ephesians, I mean, that flipping stew passage, and you say that's, that's how a husband is to serve his wife. Then you start looking at the whole, the whole thing gets, gets messed up here, is that we want to equate the value of something with the role, the role of something. And we want to say, if there's any distinction in roles, then that means there must be a, uh, uh, a distinction and value. And that's not true.

It's not true inside the Godhead. There is a role inside the Godhead. You have God the father. What's his role? He's a father. You have God the son. What's his role? He's his role.

He's the spirit between the two. They have different roles. Well, which one's greater in terms of their value? Well, they're equal. There's no higher person inside the triune Godhead. There is an equal ontological value inside the Godhead. Yes, they have a different. economic role.

And then I would argue it's the same thing in our relationships here. There is no, there is a, there is no, you can't, you can't confuse the two. And then when you add into this idea, well, in God's economy, in God's kingdom, and there's this weird thing that he's calling us to where he says that if you want to live, you have to die. If you want to receive, you have to give. If you want to be first, then you should be last. and for so long I thought that meant go get in the back of the line and then he'll escort me to the front of the line.

But that's not what he's saying. He's actually saying the best position to be is in the back of the line. It's in the place of service. It's in the place of sacrificial love. That is the core of who God is. God is the core of his whole essence is sacrificial love. And so if you look at it as that is where a true life is, them in a relationship of a husband and wife where husband is laying down his life

sacrificial loving and serving his wife and she is sacrificially submitting to her husband in that kind of relationship the result of that is actually what you always been looking for intimacy oneness connection well yeah ultimately it's the i've said this many times it's the greatest sex on earth if you take god's design because you have a man and a woman. Let's say they were virgins when they got married. I experienced that. I wasn't, you know, my biggest problem on the honeymoon night was what's fixed to happen here, you know. It was not, but I knew one thing. I wasn't thinking about who she had been with or, you know, or how I was going to compare to that. So none of those stresses, because she had never been to anybody.

Right. She wasn't thinking that. I knew there was zero chance that I was going to get a sexually transmitted disease on my honeymoon night. I would think that would ruin the honeymoon? No chance of that. Never entered my mind. I'm just reflecting on it. Although you did get strep throat.

Yeah, I did get strep throat, but that was just weird, you know. I think that just shows you that no matter you do it right, things are going to happen. That's right. There's still a many tests. That's right. So, but what I'm saying is comparison-free. it's guilt free. Yep.

This is sanctioned by God. This is what he created us to do. It was comparison free, you know, shame free. It was beautiful, even though if, you know, if people were to get the gory details, they were like, we are.

Like, I don't know what you're doing. Oh, well, we didn't. That was kind of the fun of it, you know. But you kind of figured out. What you're describing is the picture that you see in the garden. I mean, there was no comparison. There was no, in their case, there was no in-laws.

There was no anything until, and what was the one thing that changed everything? The knowledge of evil. But you, that was the thing. You see this so much in couple. The point I'm trying to get is when you, to think about a hint of sexual morality and all that, and we deal with a lot of couples and trying to help them when things go wrong. But I've just seen this same pattern. These roles get messed up.

You know, and it's a combination. The man won't lead. And usually not in all-K, but usually it's kind of a domineering type woman who, when you ask what's happened, she's sacrificed this whole time and been unselfish just to keep it together. But now I've had enough. But what I've noticed is then both of them as they separate and are headed toward divorce, they both start getting. in shape. They buy new clothes. They,

because in their mind, you're like, why are you doing this? So I always ask those questions, you know. And, because I've seen even counselors, they're like,

you know, did you buy a new underwear? It's amazing that question. When I heard the counselor give it, I was like, who in the world would ask that question? But you know what the answer was? Yeah.

Why? It's not for her husband. You see what I mean? Because she's, back she's getting back out into the game and then the husband's sitting there saying well if you'd have been doing this you know getting in shape and getting all pretty and buying new under way probably wouldn't have these problems you know well well you're if you hadn't have been but it's just like once you see that oneness broken you start seeing the hypocrisy in how you're living all of a sudden

you're trying your best to put your foot forward because why you're putting all your hopes and dreams on, well, maybe if I find somebody else and go through the same process again that I'm going to find happiness. And it's just a spinning of the wheels. It's a tough world out there. Exactly. There has to be submission and sacrifice. You both get to look like Jesus in this.

Because when you don't do that, then you start believing lies. One of the biggest lies that you'll believe, and I guarantee a podcast this size, there's people listening right now who are believing this lie that I married the wrong person. And that's from the evil one too, because if you read the scripture here, he says that what God has brought together, let no man separate. So I married the wrong note. God brought it together. And I remember, like we went through that ministry reengage, Jill and I did.

And it was very, very good in helping us see the whole point of our marriage and who was the author of our marriage, which was God himself. And the goal of your marriage, ultimately, it's not the Jerry McGuire. You know, you, Jill, you fulfill me and I'll fulfill you. We'll complete each other. That's not the goal of a marriage. And the goal of the marriage is to glorify God. It's really not even to meet each other's needs. It's to glorify God to experience him and to reflect him. And I think once- Did you get that information into your daughter's years. I did. We, we, yeah, we, we, we, we, uh, yeah, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we're how much you're told this stuff. Some of it, you learn through your own kind of pain and struggle, but her and

Dawson, I mean, to be honestly, they've far surpassed where Jill and I were at that age in terms of, of, what they're doing. So I, I, I wish I could go back to my 21 or 23 year old self and have, really implemented a lot of this in my marriage early on. Well, yeah, I think we could all say that. But I've been trying to bring up these three points you had in that outline for two podcasts. It says separate, you know, from the world. And I think that's the best thing you can do for your marriage as far as the, when it comes to greed, hints of sexually immorality,

or any kind of demonic rationalization of the earthly gods. This is 7 through 14 is where it goes. Then you had dedicate. So you separate, then you dedicate, you know, to each other. Now,

he's talking about to Christ and to each other in the church, but it's going to be mirror of your marriage. And you think, what is dedicate? And it gets into this, you know,

find out what pleases the Lord, live as children, live as children of light. And I thought about that phrase, phrase find out what pleases the lord i mean look if you spend 15 minutes you know reading your bible every other day i'm just going to tell you that's not enough yeah it's not enough i mean you have to be i think absorbed with the life of jesus and his word to be a part of a family yeah you know i look at my wife now look we cannot be two different people in everything outside of jesus and and all of

You that know me. Y'all know that. I mean, it's like we are, it's like we came from two different planets. And, I mean, we're just now 30-something years into her getting over the fact that I was raised in an environment that frowned upon razors. You remember that, Phil? I'm learning as you go. Yard bruise. Yeah, what was the other thing that was frown though?

There's usually three things I mentioned there. Razors, lawnmowers, I'll feel free to jump in. What am I missing? Deodorant? I don't know. Yeah, deodorant was optional. But anyway, what I was thinking when you get married, you know, I marry this woman, you know, I was taught you don't mow the grass.

That's a waste of time. It's a waste of money. The frost will get it right there. But also, Phil would have that element of don't let society, take to you what is socially acceptable. Think of all the critters that love that high grass, and they're flourishing in nature, and he gives us a little speech.

Well, my wife was uncomfortable if people are driving through a neighborhood and everybody's yard is manicured, and then you come to ours, and it's a hayfield. Your mother comes about as close as anybody I can think of. It's just a follower. She didn't mind about your high grass. No. But you always lived at the end of the road, too, with nobody around.

That was the difference with Missy probably. But what I was going to say is, you know, she, if you start adding up the moments of sacrifice and submission and unselfishness, especially with our kids, but not just that with me on a daily basis. It would be tens of thousands. Watching from a distance, I've seen some great steps by your walk. Well, that's what I was going to tell you. I mean, look, she is. I mean, she may not think it's at heaven, but it is.

Yeah, it's tens of thousands of acts on a daily basis that are wrapped around sacrifice, selfishness, you know, especially for a kid, just a little thing. But it's every day, it's a daily thing. And what I was going to tell you is every time I see her not doing anything, like she's not doing an act of service, he's reading her Bible. And it's tens of thousands of hours. And, you know, it's hard to just step back and realize that until you kind of do. But I thought, well, I wonder, this woman is living a life of sacrifice,

but she's getting most of our ideas from the Bible because she just lives there. She was implementing children, obey your parents in the Lord, and this is right, for this is right. honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with a promise, that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth. That's a pretty good group of little...

Yeah, that's good advice, huh? Yeah, that's... And that's what happens you're passing on. I mean, I think I could say fairly for all of us because mom and dad had been 60 years, Lisa and I 40, UMissie 34, I think. Zach, what are you guys? 20 what 20 you need to be able to answer that yeah you need to be a little quicker there zay

that you're the least married person here years wise that 20 so look i'm gonna help you with that you have to think about this at least once a week during the year because a man's mind that's going to quickly escape so i'm all the time doing the math okay i got married 1990 i got married now once you get that as the foundation yeah because you have to have to get that as a foundation. I know when I was married. 1990, August 10. Well, I hope this text has lived out. I think it did pretty good. Fathers, just us, boys, do not exasperate your children, so the fathers can help exasperate

your children, which is not good. Instead, bring them up in the training and ensure, instruction of the Lord. So that says the biblical instruction is the place to be, and you won't exasperate. Exasperate is when they just like, I mean. Well, they make it rough on you. Yeah. And you can tell exasperated children because they typically don't have a very good relationship with their parents when they get older.

That comes from the things we're talking about. if you're hypocritical or rule-oriented. Too hard sometimes or too soft. But the hypocritical part, if you're acting one way in the world. Just come on so much. You just. Yeah, there are several things that are. We'll get to that.

When I was talking about us and our years of married, is it fair to say, would y'all agree with this, that as you have grown as a brother and sister in a Christ's community with your wife, it is made your marriage better. Oh, 100%. I think mine's more, I didn't really, I don't think about it quite as,

I think this idea of oneness is why I improve. It's like, I'm constantly having to tell myself, she's me. Yep. So why are you getting upset about it? You know, what would I do to myself?

You know, right. So to me. Which, of course, Paul is going to say that. You love your wife as you love. That's my biggest catalyst. Because your parents can't do everything, but they can live alive, you know, bring them up in the training and instruction in the Lord.

You got to have Jesus in there and for them to get to know him. Right. And it'll save them a lot of trouble. But James makes a good point. It's not just reading them scripture. It's living it. It's seeing it. That's what I was getting.

It's not a nut. We were like, oh, I'm going to read them Bible stories. I'm all for Bible stories. all for reading but you know there has to be a picture of jesus and a focus on jesus's life and how he acts and why i'm doing this and you know i think the bible's about jesus that's how god revealed himself and jesus was about relationships so i think all those have to be on the ready because it really is advice and i do think we're men and part of training them is helping them to find what that means.

And so we need men who lead and we need, you know, women who submit to their husbands and want to submit because you're leading. You're leading them this idea. I always say make it easy. Like live in such a way to make it easy for a husband or a wife to do what God has asked them to do. And the way you do that, which we'll get into this, we'll get into the text on an idea of love and respect, is we're more lovable, more respectable. In other words, we want to live in such a way it makes it easy.

I can follow the example of Christ pretty easily because he's the ultimate example to follow. And so you want to recreate that as close as you can. I'll give a perfect illustration. So I was telling recently about some of the things I had to do to help take care of Lisa right after her surgery. Stuff I didn't know I was capable of. You know, I got six drains coming out of her body, which means she's draining fluid.

Well, someone has to clean that up every day. She can't do it. Yep. So guess who did it? Me. Now, I had nurses. I had friends of ours that said, hey, I'll do it because I know that's really not your thing.

I said, no. Jay's to your point about dedication. I said, I am dedicated to my wife. I live with her. I'm going to learn how to do this. And I'm going to clean those drains every single day. Now, I raised a hallelujah when the last one came out. I won't lie because it wasn't easy.

But I learned something about myself. you have a capacity to serve your spouse in a way you didn't know possible until there was a need to do it. And I learned that actually from my next door neighbor in Gulf Shores, his wife was paralyzed. It was Jason talking about intimacy. So in one bad surgery, she comes out. They'll never have sex again. She's paralyzed now on the waist down. So that's off the table.

And now she can't take care of herself. She's in a wheelchair. And she gets sick easily. so she's always having to go to the doctor in the hospital. And I'm watching her husband, and they're maybe my age, a little older, I'm watching him serve his wife every single minute of every single day. He takes care of her. He didn't leave her.

He didn't put her in some place. When it takes two hours to get her loaded up in the car to go to the hospital, he does it for two hours. And I don't even know if he's a believer or not. But I know one thing. I learned about dedication by watching the way they operate. And so there are ways that we serve each other. And I love that you brought up that word dedicate because that's what it is.

But he's talking in that about dedication to Christ. But think about what that means for each other. And then the third word was illuminate. Yeah, I thought that was great. That was a great vision as a husband looking at my wife where I'm trying to illuminate her in Jesus, you know, to the world. And it's a full-time job because as I, I've clearly laid out.

Part of my role is to speak the truth in love. So, and my number one allegiance is Jesus. Yeah. I want to leave my family toward what we're supposed to be doing on the planet for Jesus right now and ultimately the afterlife. So sometimes it's hard decisions and hard conversations that has to be said, but the goal is that illumination. So part of that's wrapped around.

you got to expose whatever lies beneath. There's no secrets in marriage. There's no cover of. Because you really know it anyway, but you've got to shine light on it to deal with it. Yeah, that's the, I mean, that's, because you go back to the garden,

when Paul takes it back to the garden, and he references that passage in Genesis 2, therefore man shall leave his father, mother and whole fast as wife, and the two shall become one flesh. you think about, well, you just skip one chapter later, you say, well, what went wrong? Well, they ended up worshipping something they should not have worship, which was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And then the result of that was actually the opposite of knowing each other.

They hid. They hid from God and from each other. They covered up with the fig leaves, which is such a beautiful metaphor. I said it's not a beautiful metaphor. It's a very ugly metaphor, actually, for what we do. And so we hide and we protect and we do not let our spouse see us because if they do see us, then guess what? They're going to see how horrible we are and they're going to reject us.

And then they're doing the same thing. So then you keep this cover up going. And that's the pathway to divorce and destruction is actually covering up. But in Christ, in the gospel, you actually can pull back the fig leaf and say, here's, here's me. and a healthy marriage and where I think probably the emotional bond is repaired and built is in that place where you see that in your spouse and they see that in you and you still remain present just like Christ did. He's ever present in our need because when Christ looked at them,

you know, when he saw out of it, when God looked at Avon Eve, he knew they were sinful. And he said, why did you hide? You know, who told you you were naked? You know, he asked him that question. And they said, well, I made these fig leaves. Well, who told you you were naked? Did you eat the tree?

I told you not to eat up. They're like, well, you know, he kind of did. And they start making blame. But what is God's response in that moment is he ends up making them a suitable covering, which is a foreshadowing of the gospel that Christ will be our covering. And so this is the gospel, by the way, that God doesn't look at you and say, man, you are awesome. He actually looks at you and said, you're much worse than you think you are.

And I see you there. And I'm here. And the book of Romans says, I died for you there. While you're an enemy, I died for you. And if God can know me in that way, then I don't have to perform for him. I don't have to pretend for him. He sees me in my nakedness, in my flaws, in my shame, in my guilt. He sees all that.

And he says, that's where I died for you. That's where I loved you. And that's the bedrock of intimacy to be known in that way post fall. That's the same thing that Christ wants us to do in our marriage. marriage as well, is to love our spouses that way, particularly men, loving your wives as Christ loved the church, knowing her at her worst and staying present. All right, so I want to read this. So in 515, I think that's about where we're at.

It says, be very careful then how you live, not as unwise, but as wise, making the most of every opportunity because the days are evil. Therefore, do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is and that's been a constant thing find out what pleases the lord do not get drunk on wine which now we've thrown in the fourth aspect you've got you know this marriage problems has something in common with there's a show named date line and all the murders that happen on that show revolve around money, sex, demonic powers, or getting drunk or drugs, yeah, every one of them. And so you say, I know what's going to happen if I get into this.

Yeah, bad things are going to happen. I mean, I just find that fascinating. Yeah. I mean, we're talking about marriage, but I'm just saying the, and you look at the world, it tends to simplify it. Well, it's interesting, Jay, is because when you're young, a lot of people are drawn to that because, again, they want to experience it. I've got to know what it's like to be drunk, to be high, to be on this, to be on that. But as people get older, it's not, now they know, and it usually is not good.

It makes you feel bad. You throw up, you get in trouble. The results are bad. You drive, you stand to get an accident. But then when you get older, you're doing it to then take the play. It becomes the idol because it's taking the problem. place of what truly fills you. So now, even though you know it's bad for you, you continue into it.

And then it turns to, you know, drug abuse, alcoholism, all the stuff that goes with. Yeah, I'm just saying it's just weird that all these married couples and, you know, the ex-husband or the guy that's having a farewell, they was at a bar and the or she had a big life insurance policy or it's like over and over for a year. I think it's the number one show on TV for like 40 years. And you're just watching the trash. tragedy of life when you get hooked up into this and take it to its full form. It ends in death.

Pain and misery along the way. That's right. It's like if you've seen one, you've seen them all. And you can get to where you can figure it out five minutes into the show. This is what you do when you get over 50. You watch Dateline. Yep. The days are evil.

My wife and I have been. So it's funny though, Jay's you're watching it to say, man, you're seeing the spiritual implications. A lot of people are watching it because they think, well, it's not, At least we're not as bad as those people were. I mean, there's how a lot of people... I think people watch it because it's a true story. It happened and it's shocking.

But it's also you're trying to figure out... You know, the way they make the show, you're trying to figure out, you know, who did it. Instead of reading the mystery or watching this. You know, my wife is like way better than I am. She's like, oh, he did it. Or, you know, it's like, no mom would ever leave her kids. You know, it's like, well, we don't know.

Because you got the guy talking old Helen or whatever. His name. He couldn't have possibly done it. Could he? We'll be right back after this break. It's just I can't stop watching. And it's just a train rate. But it makes me want to share Jesus with everybody and say, look, you're getting off into these things that is an illusion of promising, you know, fulfillment for you.

And it was right, you had it right there all along. I mean, having more money is not, is it not going to answer your problem. It's actually going to cause more. I used the illustration this weekend of David. You know, he was not, he was in a place he wasn't supposed to be in Second Samuel 11. And he looked down and he saw Bashiba bathing and he got an idea.

And it was not a good one. And he followed through on the idea and look how that unfolded into a dayline episode. I mean, it was a great illustration. Adultery, a murder, and his fellow soldiers got killed, him killing this guy. And then he was just like so corrupt, he was like, it's okay. War happens. People die. I mean, all of a sudden, this noble, amazing man of God is a sniveling coward because of sin.

It was terrible. And so then it says instead, be filled with the spirit. Speak to one another, Zach, not silence, not violent silence. speak to one another with psalms hymns and spiritual songs sing and make music in your heart to the Lord always giving thanks to God the Father of everything in the name of our Lord Jesus

submit to one another out of reverence of Christ so what a picture of Christ and the church and their marriage and then it's kind of like he says oh and by the way wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord

so you see what he's doing here yeah you can really these commentaries and do all this. He's talking about Christ and the church. And then he has this thought, you know what? It's like your marriage. This relationship of what Jesus did,

humbling himself to purchase the church, and now we're one with him. He's like, wives, you have a roll. Submit to your husbands as to the Lord. That's what it says. Inspired word of God. And I know why it says that. Because that's part of how God,

his love rescued us. So he compares the wife and the husband to Jesus, because then he says, for the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now look, this would bother me if Christ wasn't who he is. Yeah. That would bother me, and I'm a man. Right. I would, you know, I'm not saying, oh, goody, I'm glad that's in there. But I'm like, that would bother me if Christ wasn't who he was. But when you read who Christ is, you're like, okay, I want to follow that lead. Yep. Well, look.

That's his thought. And he showed you those glimpses all along. And probably the biggest one that illuminated his character and his integrity, he talking about Jesus, was the night that he was going to be betrayed. He got down on his knees and he watched the feet of the disciples. Yeah. That shows you right. I mean, he was the Lord.

He was about to die. for the sins of humanity. He was about to be raised with the dead. And what was he doing the night before? Washing the feet of the guys. He also went to a temple and cleared it out with a whip. Exactly. Not that he was whipping people, but he was it because it wasn't right. That's right. It wasn't godly. Which shows you that all those characteristics are what we should be. Exactly. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also why should submit to their husbands in everything. It's not, it's just not even a discussion. You're one, and that's how it's set up.

Husbands love your wives, just as Christ loved the church, and gave himself up for her to make her holy cleansing her by the washing with water through the word. So just, we just know, I mean, you have to say disclaimers. This is not about coercion, bullying. Nope. If you ever have to say that you're in charge, you're not. it's you've got a completely wrong view of this like carly i always used to say jess he said if you think you're a leader but you look behind you and nobody's following you're not a leader have men in the

church taking these passages and abused over and yes and demean what you all that has happened but that's not that doesn't mean that what he's saying is not beautiful right and godly and intended for how functional families should reflect the creator. All right, so let me finish this, and then we can talk about it next time. To make her holy cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, there you go, Phil, and to present her to himself as a radiant church without stain, wrinkle, or any other blemishes, but holy and blameless. Just think of the responsibility.

I'm supposed to present my wife to the world and to God in that capacity. well that's going to take that's going to be a full time job in the same way husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies he who loves his wife loves himself just think about that if you don't love your wife you don't love yourself after all no one ever hated his own body but he feeds and cares for it just as christ does the church I mean just what picture is that giving you we're all members of his body for this reason now here's where he goes back to the prophetic nature of Adam and Eve. A man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife and the two will become one flesh. This is a profound mystery, but I'm talking about Christ and the church.

However, each one of you must also love his wife as he loves himself and the wife must respect her husband. All right. We finally got it read at least. So we're going to talk about it quite a bit on the next podcast. So we'll see you there on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes.

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