Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 959 | Miss Kay’s Phone Call Makes Jase Laugh Till He Cries & What the Bible Says About Slavery

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

Phil and Miss Kay nearly miss out on their fall Sunday afternoon ritual thanks to confusing television programing, and Missy must balance between navigating her parents’ old-school habits and her daughter’s tech-dependent approach to banking. The guys explore several passages that make the Bible’s stance against slavery very clear, and Jase points out that anyone in charge of other people should adhere to Jesus’ example of kindness and generosity. In this episode: Ephesians 5, verse 1; Ephesians 6, verses 1-9; 1 Corinthians 13, verse 6; 1 Timothy 1, verse 10. -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. I was laughing at Zach because I'm, you know, watching him through the, through my camera here. And he's put on like this heavy duty some sort of jacket or something before this next podcast. I didn't know if you were doing a wardrobe change, Zach. Did you get cold? Do you just try to. A little chilly in here. It's about 50 degrees last night. So we're, it's that time of year. It was actually 50 degrees here, which was front page news if we still had pages to read the news. Well, this is just, this is just, I wouldn't call it heavy duty.

I'd say this is more like a lightweight hoodie. So I went dove hunting yesterday. It was the second day of dove season. Jay had a lead on some doves. And so we went. And so I took a shirt that I wore long sleeves because the Mr. mosquitoes were still out, which was kind of shocking. I mean, it's 51.

I had another shirt that I thought once I got so hot and sweaty from dove hunting that I would wear on the way home. But when I got out of the truck, I put that other shirt on, I mean, when it's usually 95 degrees on the lows are 75 and then it's 51, you know, I was like, Burka, Zach there. I mean, I put those shirts on. went out there again it's a lightweight hoodie I wouldn't call it a

yeah it's a little bit of ever it's not an overkill I mean yeah it looks pretty burly it's this thickened you Zay so we killed a few dubs it was uh it was it was kind of an unusual hunt but I you know where we're at in Ephesians 5

so these guys of three guys and they had their wives Phil and their kids of course when we we were meeting up, I looked at Jay, like, what have you got me into? Because I mean, it was village. It looked like a village, you know, of people from husband, wife, teams with pretty young kids. And everybody had their guns. And so I told Jay, I said, wherever they post us up, we need to be pretty far away from that, just because I didn't want to get shot. Which happens a lot

deer in hunts like this. I mean, not like fatally shot, but I'm saying like you get stung with other people. With pellets, yeah. But I won't, now, having said that, that was my inner fear. But these people were excellent hunters. It was completely safe. I watched them the whole time. Me and Jay, of course, by removing ourselves creating a little distance for safety

and just not knowing what we were involved in here. well, they were in the hot spot. So we got strapped because more doves, which I broke a rule, you know, when you don't follow the owner of the land or the captain of the ship, well, you're not on the exact spot. So my fears, Phil, cost us some dove. Me and Jay killed about 12 between us, and they killed. Each little family pod, they killed more than that.

But it was a good time. But I really liked that because I thought, why are these kids such safety conscience? Why were they having such a good time? But I knew what went into that, the training, the love, the experience, the time spent. I mean, it's hard to get young youths that experienced in safety. Because dove hunting is chaotic.

You don't know where they're coming from or where they're headed. And a lot of times they fly real low. And you've got to watch out for where everybody's at, even though you're certain distances. But if somebody moves, I mean, I'm consciously looking at all that. And people don't take it quite as serious as other hunting. because you're using bird shot, which is not real lethal unless you're close. But still, you have to be 100% safety at all time.

So it was a wonderful experience. And cool weather was nice. We've got a mess of doves that I'm going to eat tonight. So it is that time of year of, you know, football, colder weather, hunting season, which made me think of another thing, Phil. Jay called me later on that day and said, I had an interesting conversation with your dad talking about you. I said, what's that?

He said, when I walked in, he was like, Stone, you're not going to believe this. He said, the football people that put on the football games, they have now decided to try to watch all the games at one time. And Jay was like, What are you talking about? Phil's like every few seconds, they're switching to another game. Of course, Jay then realized that there's a channel called the NFL Red Zone.

And it was designed for fantasy football. And Phil, somehow another you thought or you got to that channel. So I was just going to see what your experience was instead of taking his word for it. It was the biggest bunch of bull I've ever said in my life. You'd be looking And I'd say What team is that And they'd go from there

To the next one To the next one So you just see Just excerpts Just little excerpts From this group That group This team, that team

I would look at their helmets And say Who is that now? Was it like you Were 30 seconds behind the whole time? That's it Well look In your defense

My wife and I watched the same thing yesterday because she loves football. You saw that. Well, I watch it every week on purpose. I like it. But we watched the Saints game first. You can find a game in your area that shows the game. We watched that.

But then she was just in the football spirit, and she was so excited that the Saints just absolutely destroyed Carolina. She started watching it. But about 20 minutes in, she said, babe, I'm not sure I can watch this. I said, what do you mean? She's like, everything's happening so fast. I can't figure out who did what I'm trying to process what just happened,

and they're already on to the next thing. She said, it's really giving me a headache. You get one minute of one group, the next minute of another group, and they'd get out on the five-yard line, then they were up, there's another buck. They're over, they're scoring a touchdown. I mean, you know, look, I'm trying to show. I mean, with every group, I mean, they had about three or four teams at a time.

Yeah, they split screen. They'd have four screens. But the reason they call it the red zone is because every time a team enters the 20-yard line toward the go line, they're switching to them. So you're watching every NFL team in the red zone at the same time. But if there's four teams in the red zone, they show all four. You have to pick a box now. So look, I met the guy who's the commentator for that. And I want you to think about if you thought what you experienced was that maddening,

this guy sits there for seven hours without a commercial break. Yeah. And calls every game as it happens. I saw it. I met him. Yeah. And he's actually a believer in the Lord. Really?

Oh, wonderful guy. Todd Hanson is his name. And he's unashamed of his face, so I feel like I can say that. But it made me think, which I didn't ask him the question when I made him, but I wanted to. I mean, if you talk for seven hours, there's no bathroom, there's no snack, there's no water. I mean, because my first thought was, is there a bucket under that table? I was trying to watch it go. Pocket captain.

moving so much and one team to the next. And I mean. But if that guy hasn't won an award, that's right. He should. He should win an Emmy. Yeah, I think so. And also yesterday was Tom Brady's first.

Of course, this will release a week away, but it was his first broadcast, I guess, unless he did some preseason stuff. But I had never heard him. But he was good. He was pretty good. You know, you never know these guys how they're going to be, you know, like, and he kept saying, I'm, hey, I'm just a rookie now, you know, I'm, I'm learning as I go here, but I thought he was insightful. He did the Cowboys Browns game. But I wanted to tell my

favorite mom and dad stories. So it's mom loves football as much as dad does. So they watch it together. But last year, during the playoffs, I came in and they were watching this game. And they were like, oh, can you believe this game? Mom was like, can you, can you believe this game? And of course, I realized that the game, like they were, it wasn't time for a playoff game. And so I was like, well, who is it? And it was like, was the 49ers and the Eagles. And they're last year? Yeah, it was from the year before.

And mom was watching. She was like, I just don't know what's going to happen. I said, do you want me to tell you? Because I know exactly how this is going to end. Well, what's funny is, is I caused you those problems, Phil, because Kay called me. And she said, I can't find the game. and I was like, what do you mean? You can't find the game.

And I thought she meant the Saints game and whatever it was on, I said. But she just hung up on me, you know, and Missy was like, oh boy, what does that mean? So I guess that led y'all to the NFL Red Zone. Yeah. So I guess that was my bad. I should have been a little more clear. But technology has its challenges. It made me think, though, not too long ago, Missy had a situation.

where in the early morning her parents had come over to our house and they were describing, like, handling their finances and all. And they started talking about receipts and, you know, there's boxes full of receipts. And my wife was like, you know, there's at this stage of technology, you don't have to have boxes full of receipts at all. you can just go to a digital account, and that is your receipt. And I remember her dad was like, what you mean? She was like, well, let me just, and she logged into their bank, you know, and pulled it up. And when he saw that, because he's got boxes of like every transaction, there's a box, you know, with a receipt, his response to that was like, whoa, wow. And we were kidding around because we were like, you know, we also have cell phones and

computer, you know, and it was like, whoa, when did this happen? And so we laughed and they were good spirits about, you know, it was just like all this time and effort and worrying on. It was like she fixed that in a minute. In one minute. It's like moving forward, here's how you do this. and they were just incredibly grateful. And then it wasn't an hour later in one of our kids called

because somebody had committed fraud on them and got into their account, so they had to shut everything down. So she couldn't use her card and all. And she was so stressed out because it's like, you know, mom, I don't know what to do. And Missy in some moment in that, because I was listening to the call.

She's like, well, you know, know you can just walk into a bank and say who you are and show your ID, and they'll give you money out of your account. And she was like, they will? I just thought there in that moment of all the relationships we have, you have two extremes, the one who knows nothing about technology, and then the other one who doesn't realize you can actually talk to a human being and say, look, my account's been shut down. Can you give me some money? And they're like, like, yeah. And it was the same response. Wow. I can get money out of the bank without putting it into a machine. It happens. They're like, no way. When did that start happening? That's like, that's been

happening all along. You just missed it. So my, so it's opening weekend of football, which is big, you know, because we love watching football. Unfortunately, for me, we're also moving, which is not good. And because for, I don't know if it's like this for all men, but for me, and y'all will probably agree, like, I'm really good at, like, you know, hauling stuff off, tearing down boxes, moving stuff into the house, you know, just kind of grunt work. But I can't tell you where anything should go at all. And I really don't care about anything.

So yesterday, this is the first day of football games, and there are four women, four, and they're all helping Lisa, three other ones plus Lisa, and deciding where stuff goes. And they want me to, like, comment like they keep asking me about it. And so I did, first I was going to try to stay in there and watch a game. And I realized that it can't be done because it's just maddening. Plus, they're, you know, they moved this. Al, can you come pick this up? and we're going to try, you know, they moved the couch.

They put lamps in the place four times. So finally, I just left. I went downstairs. I found another TV. And they were like, well, we didn't know where you, you've been gone for two hours. I said, yeah, that was on purpose. I mean, I wouldn't have been able to take it anyway, but this is all happening during the first football games is putting stuff up in the house. And it was like, it was a nightmare.

It was like the worst possible, like man place to be was in my house yesterday. That's funny. Well, I mean, with our, with my wife, she loves like, you know, Phil's situation the same way. I mean, my wife loves it just as much. And so I've seen like when people come over, she's like, okay, you can watch football with us. Or can this way, I mean, she, she's, she, she's, she doesn't care about it. Yeah. So, which is funny, but we enjoy it.

And it all started in our life when our kids started playing football because it brought all of us together. I mean, that's what we talked about. And so once she understood the game, and we, you know, we support all things, Louisiana because that's where we're from. So we, you know, we watch the Saints and LSU and different things like that. Well, Alex, so Corby decided to play football this year, and he's never played. He's baseball has been his thing. And so, so I called Alex, you know, they had a scrimmage Saturday. And I was like, so what, tell me, you know, what's going on because, yeah, I wasn't there.

So I wanted to know what was happening. I said, is he playing an offense or defense? I don't know. I haven't really. And first I said, what position? She said, I don't really know the positions. Like, what is he in offense or defense? I don't know.

I don't think he's in there. I'm not exactly, I'm not sure what his number is. I just felt like it was too much. Hoopla? Yeah. It was too much. Yeah. I get it.

It's not for everybody. But people like me. change the teams. Yeah, people like me who do fantasy leagues and all that. It's fun for us because we know everybody and we're just seeing if they score. I mean, I'm a Saints fan, but I'm also a fan of the dudes that I have on my team because I'm trying to win. So if they score, I score.

It's too much cutting off and starting and this group, that group. Yeah, I'm with you, Dad. I don't like it. I quit doing fantasy. of football because it just took away my enjoyment of just watching the game. Oh, yeah. Well, they've been doing it about 15 years, so somebody likes it. Oh, it's huge.

It's huge. Yeah. In fact, Corbyn, I said my grandson is 10 years old. He drafted his own team and he won his first game. I mean, the young boy knows the stats and the foot. I mean, he's way. It's literally anyone can do. Yeah, in my league, I mean, there's kids and, you know, and it's embarrassing if you're

getting beat by a kid, but literally it's just luck, you know, you get to play. So they have, you know, formulated drafts that tell you who to pay. Well, Jay, you and I, I hadn't thought about a long time. We used to have a church fantasy football when it first started, and me, you and Willie were, because you couldn't hardly get in. It never left. The name of our team was the cartel. And guess what?

The cartel has never left. So you're the cartel now. No, me and Cole. The cartel went from three brothers to now father's son. Okay. And, yeah, we actually won the least two years ago. Oh, it's still going. Oh, it's a waiting list to get in it.

You couldn't get in. That's why we had to go in together and become the cartel, which was the coolest name. I was in with Willie at one point. Yeah, because he's, Willie couldn't deal with me and Jay's. He was, you know, he, Willie doesn't play well by not being the big boss. Well, both of you have been disfellowship. And now you just got kicked out due to like them. Trust me.

I don't, I don't mind because I did not like it. It was a touchdown only league or something. Oh, it still is. And it's the greatest league in the world. We are, we're dinosaurs that people, once they experienced it, they like it better than all this fantasy junk that's out there today. With the points and all that. Oh, they have points and it doesn't make sense.

Our, ours are a real football game. If your guy scores, you score. So all these touchdown vultures they called in other fantasy leagues, those are prize recruits for our league. And that's the way it should be. That's the way it was. We're playing football here. Get it across the goal line.

When you started, when that league was started, there was no like calculations. It was all calculated based on what was in the paper. So you had to go in and do the work. There wasn't. Oh, yeah. There wasn't like now, it's all done for you. So you can have, I mean, they're calculating yards. We're still doing the work because.

Back when we used to do the March Madness and I started our March Madness League, literally I had to compute the scores after every round. And so it was up to the, it was a ton of work. But it was way more fun. Like Jay said, it was much more organic to the sport as opposed to just now it's just plug it in a computer. And I don't know.

Well, my whole point for bringing it. this up because people say, well, what's the point of all this? Look, any time spent with your loved ones, especially your kids, because this is unlike any other thing that I can think of, because most people say quality time is better than quantity, but not with your kids. With your kids, quantity is the quality. And so I find different ways, you know, to be. You know, to be in my my kids lives especially when they get older and uh you know my son co he doesn't say a whole lot would you agree with that yeah uh so you know you think you think of creative ways to get involved where you're spending time uh with your kids so and look it works both ways jays because

mom will call me like during a game and do that kid are you watching this game and i said yeah I'm watching. He said, can you believe Patrick Mahomes what he just did? I mean, like, this is my 76-year-old mom, you know, calling me about football. And you're right. I mean, I love it. It's great. She called the other night and we laughed so hard we almost feeding her pants.

Because she talked for 15 minutes. I had her on speaker and we were all watching the game. And I never said a word besides, yep. she talked 50 she just started into the game and I went yep did you say that yep yeah yeah and it went on and then we all started getting tickle I went yep and then at the end I thought she was going to say well how are you doing she was like all right I got to go bye and bong and we laughed and laughed and busy said you never said a sentence for 15 minutes I was like nope well you know what this It's the same thing with Dad except no yep.

Just silence. I've seen Dad just sit there looking at her and she's talking, talking, talking. That was pretty funny. But I think it's a good, you know, the things that last are the fundamental principles. And I think it's love, which has been the theme of Ephesians. Let's read those, the first nine verses, Jays. You want to read, Zach, you want to read it in your version? Yeah, read yours because I'm curious to see what yours, how it uses.

Read us 6-1-9, Zach. We're in this little book called Ephesians. Zach, on this podcast, we study the Bible. The Bible. The Bible. So most of us have our Bibles open. You said 6-1-9. Yep.

Children obey your parents and the Lord for this is right. Honor your father and mother. This is the first commandment with a promise that it may go. well with you and that you may live long in the land. Fathers do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. Bonds servants obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling with a sincere heart as you would Christ, not by the way of eye service as people pleasers, but as bond servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, knowing that whatever good good

does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a bond servant or is free. Masters do the same to them and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their master and yours is in heaven and that there is no partiality with him. That's interesting. So just to reset from the contextual part of this, we've been talking to husbands and wives, and Paul basically does these three illustrations of this idea of submission to Christ. And really the whole text about Christ and the church, but these are illustratively used to show how the relationships matter. So we talked about marriage first. Now it's parenting inside the home. And this works both ways. This is both for children, even adult children and their relationship with their parents and vice versa. And then he gets into this situation with the bond service, which I like better because the NIV says slaves. But that's such a, the word itself is so toxic. it's hard to even having a discussion,

but bond servant is much closer to the sort of domestic situation that was going on. So anyway, that's just to set it up. Yeah, and as an overview, continuing that thought, so most people, when they read this about the bond servants or slaves,

it's immediately, well, now why in the world would God be promoting slavery? I think that's the question that I've heard many times from people who don't believe in God. But in their family units, back at this time. And the reason we, you know,

I was glad we talked about technology and all the things we talked about. These were the family units back in the day. And for where we have electricity and, you know, all these inventions, telephones and computers. And back in their day, people functioned as those amenities. And what's crazy is, It wasn't really based on anything other than a need for money or, you know, if your country lost a war, then the people that you were fighting became your servants.

If you couldn't pay your debts, you'd go to prison and, you know, then your family would have to serve some other family to pay out the debt. And it's just the way it was. Yep. It was much more domestically driven. That's why when you read about the household, I mean, it's. It was part of their family, their household. And you'll even see people who were converted in acts. And that was everybody.

I mean, that was the people that worked for them, the indentured servants, everybody. So the first century situation and what we're reading about here is way different than 19th and 20th century slavery where basically you were just abducting people and then selling them and not even looking at them as people. I mean, this is a whole different situation. They are based on their color or race. Yeah, it was just absolutely an atrocity. And I'm sure that even in their setting, there were abusers and bad situations.

No doubt. So to me, it makes, you know, and a lot of that, I think NT, right, does a good job of explaining this because it's the same vein of that with, you know, technology and indoor plumbing or getting water. And, I mean, now you turn on the faucet, but, you know, back in their day, somebody got to go get it well you pay them and they they live with you all from room and board or whatever how it works but i see similarities even in our economic world to this because when you think about authority figures well we have we've all had jobs and the guys the boss and basically i'm his servant you know i work construction for a while i showed up guess what he told me

where to go, what to do, and there was no doubt that he was in charge. And if I, you know, didn't like it, well, I get fired, you know, kicked out. But to me, now how he treated me and how bosses treat people, it's going to come to these same spiritual principles that interlock faith and the character of God. And remember, Jace, you're exactly right. These are used illustratively. therefore the application in our world today is exactly what you just described. We understand management and bosses and employers and employees and how we treat one another.

And remember, this whole context starts out by saying, look, in Christ, we're one. So what happens if your boss is, you know, a believer and you are as well? Then whether he's your boss or not or she's your boss or not, you're one in Christ, but you still have responsibility. you're trying to run a company, you're trying to make money. Decisions have to be made. And his point is, however you make these decisions, whether you're the employee or the employer, you want to do it as Christ would do it.

You want to have that same attitude and that same mindset. Well, yeah, and I want to throw into that point, because you see a hint of that. What Paul does do that is different from people who are just trying to use this as some evidence that, you know, there's no God or whatever, is he does something really different in that he speaks to the people in charge in both of these examples that were at today as like you have a responsibility. I mean, if it was just about them being in charge, mother and fathers being in charge, he wouldn't say fathers, do not exasperate your children.

Yeah. Well, he's talking to them, saying, don't do that. When he got to bond servants, he said, don't threaten them. Well, he said, you have a responsibility wherever you're at and whatever I'm using the word authority. I don't know if there's a better word for that, but whatever role you have as the leader or the one in charge, in quotations,

you have a responsibility to be like Christ. And that's why I said, that trickles down to your job. And even in church settings with pastors and anybody can be abusive and ungodly in any situation. Yeah. And so as members of Jesus and us humbling ourselves to do that, we find ourselves in these societal and family roles that we do. And how you use that and navigate, it should reflect God and who Jesus is. There are passages in the Bible, even in the New Testament, that actually forbid slavery.

One of them is in 1 Timothy 110. It forbids slave traders as being people in opposition to the gospel. There's passage, I believe in Exodus about when you kidnap someone into slavery, which is what happened in the Transatlantic Slave operation. So I mean, this is – and so I would say first of all that what we know of this slavery was never, never condoned in the scripture. And two, well, even what we see is more of a concession to a cultural, I guess, economic setup that they had, the way they were conducting business and the way they were dealing with debt structures and stuff. But it wasn't God's plan, just like polygamy was never God's plan.

Yep, or divorce. Yeah, divorce was never God's plan. It's the whole concession that Moses made when he gave their certificate of divorce. Correct. Right. Jesus' whole point was, yeah, he gave you a concession because your hearts were hard. So you can't read a lot of this that we're reading. We can't read into it that God's saying, oh, yeah, that's good. We want more of that. I condone that. A lot of this is a concession of our heart and then dealing with the economic reality of what they were in and then speaking the gospel into that. But make no mistake about it, if you go back and look at the abolishment of slavery in the U.S., And you go back and watch the link, or not watch, but read the Lincoln Douglas debates, the argument that Lincoln was making in those debates was an argument from scripture. It was an argument from the Amago Day, meaning of Genesis 126, man is made in the image of God.

And so the question he was asking are, are these people men or not? And the answer, yeah, they're men. Okay. Then the Amago Day applies to them. What was written in the Declaration of Independence applies to them? And then when you move forward into even the civil rights movement, if you go read a letter from a Birmingham jail that Martin Luther King Jr. wrote from a jail cell in Birmingham, he appealed to the same exact argument. He's going back to, quote, Thomas Aquinas and other spiritual intellectuals, Christian intellectuals throughout history who have made this argument. So it's actually been the argument from Scripture of what does it mean to be human.

It's that argument out of Genesis 126, 127, that's been the anchor for how we've actually seen advancements in civil rights and the abolishment of slavery. So it would be, people would be misreading the scripture if they think that God is condoning slavery. I don't believe he is condoning slavery, particularly as we know it. He's not, and you're exactly right. It goes against the principle that we started here that we're unified. He says there's neither male nor female slavery.

slave nor free. He brings the idea where human beings, we all have the opportunity to follow him. You know slavery was wrong in America because there were laws written that said human beings weren't a full person. They were three-fifths of a person. Well, that tells you right out of the bat that the whole system was off. I want to read a quote from MacArthur. I came across when I was researching this, and I thought it was really good. He said, New Testament teaching does not focus on reforming and restructuring human systems, which are never the root cause of human problems. The issue is always the heart of man, which when wicked will corrupt the best of systems and when righteous will improve the worst. If men's sinful hearts are not changed, they will find ways to oppress others,

regardless of whether or not there's actual slavery. And I think he's right on target. That's why the Bible goes at the heart of people, because when that has changed, then the results and the attitudes change after that. And you would never be able to say, I can accept slavery or people aren't a full human being. That's insane. Yeah, exactly. I was going to read the same passage out in Galatians 3 where you said that. And there's other passages. The 1st Corinthians 12 says the same thing about, because that's always, it's kind of like this analogy that we're married to Jesus. Oh, and then how shall we show Christ in our earthly marriage? And it's the same way in the church.

That's always the backdrop that there's not male or female or slave or free or Jew or Greek or, you know, where you're from. That's always a reflection of, well, how should our churches look? So we immediately go to Sunday morning, but, you know, when we gather up at the temple, we talked about that last podcast. But your community, the church should look like your community. I mean, that's just the way it should look. So, I mean, to me, if it's different races and different types of people, well, that's what the church is going to look like because that's who we share Jesus with, whoever you're in earshot of. There's somebody guiding the entire thing and it's either God or not God. Exactly.

And unless it's something ungodly, right. You know, we voluntarily submit ourselves in those situations, either to earn a change. check or for whatever reasons that we decided to do it. You know, I ran across an interesting stat, as you were talking about earlier, about the domesticated situations of the first century. And it was estimated that in the Roman world, 25 to 40 percent of the entire population were indentured servants in the Roman culture. So you think about it, that's, I mean, that's a quarter to almost half of the people

in that system. we're a part of what we're talking about. So, of course, when you read the Bible then, Paul's going to go with the attitudes. I mean, that's affected a lot of people. And so he's telling them, no matter what's your circumstances and situations, and this is a new thing. Christianity is just going full force. And entire households are coming to Christ.

And then all of a sudden, it's like, well, what am I going to do? Because my boss or, you know, my owner or whatever the situation it was that they were in, how am I going to relate my Christianity in these settings and situations? So it would have been a very real discussion affecting people's lives, just like we may, it's hard for us to even imagine having that discussion in the 21st century. But in their day, it was very real. Exactly. Good point.

But that's why I said it comes back to love, because when you look at Jesus' example, you know, there was nothing that love itself could be capable of that he didn't prove out. And that's why when you look at what love is, it's this self-sacrifice, this surrendering. And you read 1st Corinthians 13, you know, that gives a great definition of that. And putting that into your relationships, wherever you are, you know, in their world. And it goes both ways. That's why Paul is even challenging the guys in charge of the servants. And, you know, it gets down to the end, which Zach's version says,

and he doesn't show partiality, which the NIV says favoritism, which I, you know, I like that word because it's like, well, God doesn't show favoritism. We shouldn't either. I think it's a key point because you know what the underlying problem with all this is where all the problems in society happens is when other people think they're better than other people. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. And you can come up with a thousand and one reasons why they come up with it. But at the end of the day, that's where really sin starts to show itself. When you look at somebody, anybody, and think you're better than them. It is interesting, Jase, that you brought up a minute ago that Jesus is the ultimate example.

And it's interesting that in all of these illustrations, Jesus is at the center of, you know, the illustration. Husband and wife, he said, well, Jesus was never married. Yeah, but it says the church is like his bride. I mean, that's how he treats it. Yeah, he is married now. And then when it becomes the children discussion, you think about what he did. He's the son of God. He realizes, as he's, remember back when he was 12 years old, that he even knew then he had a special purpose.

And what did he do? He obeyed Mary and Joseph. I mean, this is the son of God that submitted himself to his earthly parents. And knowing that he had a plan and they had a father. in heaven. So not only did he submit to the Father in heaven and do his will on earth, he had submitted to his earthly parents as well. And then when you look at this situation about serving, he told his disciples, the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve. And so he shows in every one of these situations the proper example.

I think that when you, if you try to make sense of this whole context out of your point, you got to go back to that Ephesians 5-1, because this was all coming after that. The idea here is you're going to imitate somebody. I talked about this in a previous podcast. Your desires are going to, you're going to mimic somebody. And what Paul said is mimic God, be imitators of God as beloved children. And then he defines what that mimicking is, that imitation is.

He says, walk in love as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. So when you go to these passages or these examples of different kind of applications of what that looks like, if you notice each position that he's mentioning here, he's really just saying, whatever position you're in, then you need to be laying down yourself. If your children, guess what? You need to be obeying your parents. And you need to honor your mom and dad.

Okay, parents, dads, you don't need to provoke your children. So you can kind of see that depending on who he's talking to, it's a different instruction, but it really fits both into what he says in Ephesians 5, which is give yourself up. Be like Jesus. Be like Christ who gave himself up for you. So children, you need to do the same thing with your parents. It's better for everyone. It's better for everyone.

Whoever I'm talking to, it's almost like Paul's saying, whatever position you're in, like imitate who Jesus is. Be imitators of God. This is just practical application of what he already instructed in Ephesians 5. One, he's just now giving us practical, positional, a positional prescription, basically, of how we live this out. Yeah. And I think it's also redefining love.

I mean, I go back to love as a bedrock because, you know, when people read First Corinthians 13, they usually think, oh, it's flowery, you know, love is patient, it's kind, it doesn't envy. does it boast, it's not proud, it's not rude, it's not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record or wrongs. Well, if you put that in any relationship, it's going to be godly, no matter what the situation is. But that next phrase,

because all the people who come to these passages and try to blame God or say, well, this can't be right, but that 1st Corinthians 13, 6 says, love does not delight in evil. And always bring that up. When it comes to racism, that's evil. When it comes to a man abusing his wife in any way. Well, that's evil.

When parents abusing their kids. So whatever you think on that lines, we know what true evil is. And as lovers, that makes us angry. And it's supported here. And so there is a time to clean out the temple. and say, no, well, this is, this is not right. And so I think that always has to be an anchor in these discussions. I mean, being a leader of your family, sometimes you get angry if evil crops up in any way.

And I really want to stress that because we just have definitions of love like it's just something we fall in and out of. But it's having difficult conversations. it's always been on the prowl to keep evil out of any situation, whether it's at the workplace or in your family or with your kids. And so you identify that because that next phrase says, but rejoices with the truth. And God is truth, God is love. And that should be, you know, the background to where we make these decisions.

Well, you just think about how Christ nourishes us. That word exasperate. The New English Bible says, do not goad your judgment. children to resentment, which is, I love that phrase, God nourishes us and he did it through Christ. And that word that says, bring them up in the admiration in the Lord, that word there, that Greek word is the same one earlier that talked about a husband taking care of his wife as his own body to feed and care. So I love this idea that in Christ were nourished with everything, whether it's not just physical,

but it's emotional, it's mental, it's spiritual. It's a way to help other people go. I love your first, Jay, it's about the evil, which, by the way, is exactly where we're going, where Paul goes in the next context, that your husband or your wife or your children or your parents or your boss or your employee are not your enemies. But we do have one. Well, I know we're almost out of time, but I just want to throw this in. That same principle, because a lot of times, like when people come to me,

and they're like, it's a husband. He's like, I'm struggling with pornography. And I usually ask the first, the first question I ask, I say, well, don't you love your wife? And he's like, oh, yeah, well, I love my wife. And I go to this 1st Corinthians 13. Look, God has put you to your number one job is to protect your family and present her as holy and blamess and your kids. They're disassociating, I love my wife with when you're looking at pornography.

that's evil. Would you agree with that? They're like, well, yeah, that, that's evil, you know. Well, if you're going to say, I love my wife, there's your motivation. And we hadn't even got to the part of you love your husband, which is Jesus. And so it does not, it never delights in evil and you have to use that as a basis. I wanted to get that in there. No, that's good. All right, we're out of time. We'll pick it up next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little

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