Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 972 | Jase Denies Being an Empty Nester, Mia's New Role & From Nearly Aborted to Saving Babies

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

Jase reveals the very beginning of the Mia Moo Fund, which Mia has now fully taken over, and how well she’s doing at heading up such a large project. Phil offers wisdom for families going through struggles, and the guys are joined by guests Lisa Robertson and Heather Lawless, founder of Reliance Ministries and Reliance Center in Lewiston, Idaho. Heather shares her journey from nearly being aborted to running a successful and growing pregnancy resource center that’s saving the lives of hundreds of moms and babies. To learn more about Heather’s ministry, visit http://relianceministries.com today! In this episode: Ephesians 5, verses 17-21 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? So, Jace, welcome to Unashamed, by the way. Are you welcome in me? Noel, I was just about to start a conversation. I realized I hadn't said anything to our audience. Actually, you know, I was just a guest that showed up and never left. That's true.

Because when this podcast first started, this is, and I mentioned it maybe a time or two, spent a long time. It was originally going to be just me and, well, it was just going to be dad and, uh, because he was doing a show for Blaze. But then I was thinking, well, man, I don't know. Dad's just going to be just, you know, preaching every episode. So I thought maybe I ought to just like help host it and maybe kick some ideas to dad.

And then dad said, well, I want to have Dan on there because Dan will bring some interesting stuff. So it was me, it was me, dad, and Dan. And we did about 20 episodes. I call him the law. lost episodes. Oh, really? Did they ever air?

They never aired. And because in the interim, we weren't, we didn't have a contract. We were just seeing how it would work. I'd never done a podcast before. And I was temporary too, Jay's. I was just like, I was producing it. So I was just like sitting in to like see if we could get something going. And then the next thing I heard is asking, well, we got Jay's on board.

I said, really? And then I started getting excited. I said, well, this might be pretty good because, you know, this was, we could have some arguments. We could have some fun. You know what's funny is. So that's how it became. Dan got booted and Jay's was in and unashamed was born.

I didn't apologize to him. I didn't know I took his place. He took his spot. But I did the first podcast and I didn't know what a podcast was. I really didn't either. I wasn't sure exactly what this was. Yeah. And when I told Dad, I said, Dad, they want us to go 48 minutes.

And Dad said, what? People don't listen to us for 48 minutes. He said, we may get 20 minutes out of them. That's how we'll get, you know, thinking like a preacher. I've seen a common theme here because when they introduced the idea of us being on TV on a reality show, you know, the duck people. I think me and Phil were the two voices louder than most that said, that'll never watch. No one will ever watch that. So 22 minutes of family frivolity.

but they did. They did watch it. And it set the platform for this. So what I was going to say was, so I'm driving out here today. And this happens sometimes. I was curious if it ever happens to you, Jay's. And so we've been driving the road out here since we were teenagers. I mean, when I got my license, Dad, you pulled over up there at the mill in the

Safeway parking lot. You got out. You didn't say anything. You just got out and walked around to my side of the truck. At the time, I was 14. And you just nodded like, I don't. right now's the time i don't know if that's how you you were taught but that's how you taught me so i just got in behind that old blue chevrolet pickup with the gear shift remember on the on the steering column

and i kicked it a couple of times and it went dead and you were like not you got to ease the clutch out you can't just pop it out so i eased it out we took off down the road and i figured out the gears and i've been driving this stretch of road every since and now we're talking about you know 45 years ago. But every time I come out here now, sometimes I'll just have like a flashback memories like because we grew up here. Like you raised us here. This was our home.

This was, I was a little older than Jay. So I had been at other places. But pretty much for you and Willie and Jeff. And this is it. I mean, this was your growing up place. This is where we were, we were trained. This is where we were tall. This is where we learned how to forage and hunt and fish and all the stuff we got to do.

So you get those ideas. from time to time, like, wow. You know, it's just like, look at all that's happened over the course of 45 years. We were raised up to be the men we were. Now you and I are grandfathers. Yeah. I could be a great-grandfather. Well, I realize, you know, somebody came up with a slogan that once your kids grow up, I guess,

and, you know, my last natural-born kid is now over-term. 21. And so they came up with this term. They said, well, you're now an empty nester. And I'm here to tell you, that's not true. That's never true. Because what I've learned is as a human being, you know, we got a responsibility when it comes to kids, especially as members of the kingdom of God. You know, I turn to Matthew 18 because I know we have a guest today and we're going to talk about, you know, kids and helping kids. And life. Yeah. Yeah. And because kids, you know, they got to be trained. And I, you know, my daughter who is now, she's the head of the Miyamu, which what that is,

and we have that event coming up just in a couple weeks. And so what we do, we call it the Miyamu, which is a nickname that Willie actually gave my daughter Mia. Yeah. There's no meaning there. He used to just call her Mia Muamu. And it kind of stuck. Willie's like dad like that. He has nicknames that stick.

You know, what's amazing is she was born, you know, with a craniofacial issue, cleft lip and palate, which one out of 800 kids are born with that condition in some capacity. Granted, hers was kind of on the more severe side, and the kids we help are on the more severe side. But it was her idea when she was eight or nine years old, we had done an event. because Missy and I have been doing events for the last 20 years. And she was like, when am I going to tell my story? And I was like, well, you're eight or nine, you know, however old she was, like you're eight years old.

You're still, I was thinking, your story's developing here, you know. I was like, I tell you what, write your story and we'll, we'll get back to you. But when she wrote her story, because I just thought she'll forget this or, you know, And then I read it and my wife read it, of course, we both cried. I was like, yeah, this story needs to be told. Her perspective on it, which led to, you know, now years later, she's heading up an organization where we help kids with similar conditions that she had. And what's interesting, Jase, was the episode on the Little Duck Show where she was going to do her first speech and you guys read it.

And it happened to be the episode that was all. All our family was here. It's the only one where all our cousins were here, a lot of our uncles and aunts. And that was the wrestling episode, too. Remember the one we did out there? Y'all read her first speech on that episode, which was touching and powerful. Powerful thing. Well, so just last week, she sent me a text and said,

Dad, for the newsletter, because she does a newsletter. I'm not sure how often for the Mia Moo group. And she said, I need you. to write a little article on your favorite part of the Mia Moo Fun Day, which we call it fun day, but it's a whole weekend. And which, like I said, it's coming up. We've been doing it for years, I guess. And it's evolved, especially with her assuming the, you know, being in charge of it.

And by the way, it was way better when she took over. And I think it's just because she has lived the last. life that all these kids are and she's one of the older members of it and just the wisdom and experience and understanding and how the day is set up the fun day and then we do a little worship service which is a volunteer thing for the families because not all these families are believers in christ but last year was the first time that all the families that came and we invite all the families we help which is almost 200 families now and we connect them to each other, which I think is the real beauty of what we do.

But I think last year was the first time that all of the families came to the worship day on Sunday morning at the hotel, which was awesome. And most, if not all, you know, there's tears of joy and there's a connection there. But when she asked me that, it took me back to my childhood. Yeah. Because I've always, you know, in my roots, in my name. DNA have been a loner and I was real shy as a kid you probably remember that up until I came to Christ and so that very question was always a fear of mine because if somebody said you know what are your thoughts on something that means I had to speak in public which was probably my

biggest fear and I mean in public was if there's any other human standing in the ear shop we're Two or three are gathered together. I was the person in school that I was like, do not ask me a question. Because if you do, I'm leaving. I do not want to answer. And now we can't shut you up. Look what God does. It kind of hit me in that question.

You know, here's my daughter, 21. What is your favorite thing? Because I'm like, always my initial reaction to that is, oh, boy, I don't want to screw this up. Yep. and so uh but what i did was i wrote a couple and she's like just one paragraph piece of cake whatever so you know i found myself struggling with writing there and and uh because it's so moving to me so what i ended up with writing was after i told her i was like this reminds me my childhood about you know my fear of basically speaking because i was i was i was

was shy, and realizing that it's a lonely, that's a lonely existence. When you have that fear or being shy and kind of all teenagers, I think, go through it, you know. It's their number one issue is what other people think of. Exactly. But I wind up kind of saying that. And then what I went with is what happens at the Mia Moo is all these buses pull up that we ran out to bring them, bring them here. I mean, we pay their whole trip. to come be a part of this because you got to remember all these families are when i'm talking about

in the battle they're constantly going through surgeries multiple surgeries and the reason we only have an average of 30 to 40 families show up because all the other families we help are usually having surgeries at the time of recovery and because it's just their whole lot the whole kids life yeah but when those buses pull up and those families get out especially the families that is the first time to participate in this. There is a look on their faces and a sense that I get that there's a saying,

which was kind of the title of my little paragraph for the newsletter, you can see it. And what their bodies are saying is we're not alone. And it is overwhelming. They all become emotional. Because here they are trapped,

just like my daughter was, all these years of being different, looking different, going through all these pain, the pain and suffering. And it almost is the equivalent to what I've learned through counselors of like military guys in wars, PTSD kind of thing. You're recognizing the perishable nature of yourself and having other people suffer all around you. There's so much loneliness of recovering when other kids are in school.

You're somewhere in a bed, coughing up blood. I mean, it's just a lifestyle of this. And that recognition of we're not alone is a very powerful tool. So it's really the first thing is my favorite part of that. And even though it's a little awkward because a lot of families don't know each other as the weekend evolves and it becomes kind of a community of, you know, we're in this thing together. It's just a powerful transformation with all these people. I love it. You got a text for us, Dad?

Are you going to read the text? Well, I was just looking at. Since you're our patriarch, you get to close us with the text. In the book of Ephesians, and a lot of Bible verses cover husbands' wives and how they should behave. And children. And children. Come next. Like Ephesians 5, be very careful then how you live, not as unwise, but as wise.

These are parents. making the most of every opportunity because the days are evil. Well, if you look at our current situation, as far as what days we're in, therefore do not be foolish in the middle of all this, but understand what the Lord's will is. You don't get drunk on wine which leads to debauchery. You say, so stay sober, you know, give rich returns.

Mm-hmm. You just make it a way to live. In priority. Speak with another with Psalms, hymns, spiritual songs, sing and make music in your heart. You just start singing away, always giving thanks to God, the Father, for everything. In the name of our Lord Jesus.

Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. All these things we're told on behavior is make God, your focus and what you shoot for and talk about him, sing about him, put it in their hearts. I love it. Because if you don't do that, you'll have children who know nothing about this. There's been a push in the country of the United States of America. They literally ran that kind of talk. They've run it out of that.

That's exactly right. It's not there. And we wonder what we're reaping. And what is, you reap what yourself. What has produced has been something bad. So we're about to take a break. Dad, we don't tell you enough, but thank you and mom for raising us up to believe what you just read. Yeah.

We do appreciate it. Now we do the same with our kids and grandkids. We're going to take a break. Got a very special guest that's going to join us on Unashamed. So we'll tell you about her after the break. Welcome back to Unashamed. Jason, we've had what we call an upgrade, at least in terms of beauty. We traded Dad for head.

Lawless, Heather Lawless, Heather, thank you for coming to Unashamed, and Lisa as well. And so it's always good to have you back in the house, Lisa. So yeah, I'd call that a beauty upgrade. Yep. And we didn't, I guess I didn't realize that we met before. We have, like 10 years ago. 10 years ago, which sounds terrible because you're like, how could you forget, Jay? I'm sure.

That's okay. I do a lot of events. And so we had an event in a little place called Idaho, which is where you're from. Yeah, Lewiston, Idaho at a casino called Beards and Babies. That's it. That's all the podcast. That's all we had to. I mean, can we just walk out now?

Because that's to drop the mic. How did I forget? That was a good title. I'm a genius. And we met at a casino. I did an event there. You remember being there? I mean, I know you didn't.

I didn't at first. But then when she told me the backstory, I could never forget this because I flew. to your event and y'all provided a jet. Yeah, one of our major donors, Peters and Keats provided a beautiful private jet for you. It was awesome. I don't remember that the time I came. What happened was. Wasn't in your contract.

Yeah, that's true. Another event. He's a much bigger deal than me. Another event emerged in Idaho and they were kind of piggybacking your event. Right. They're like, hey, you're in the state. So after you do that event, come over and I was like, well, I'm already in Idaho. Well, somewhere the travel arrangements got lost and confused

because y'all had a very nice jet. And then when I did your event, they provided they set a jet, but it was a crop duster with literal duct tape on the wings. And I shared this story in a podcast. Yeah, the first time Alan talked about us, you shared it. And I said he should have said that it wasn't us that made him take the bag plate. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it actually took me longer to go across Idaho in that crop duster than it did from me going to Louisiana to Idaho on the gym.

And so, but I survived. And it was actually good because, I mean, my assistant was not happy about getting in that crop duster. And it, because it was a little, it was really a two-seater and three people got in it. Because she was just like, I'm not sure I can do this. I remember being on the runway, and she's like, I'm not sure I can get in this plane. I was like, well, stay here. I'll go. Yeah.

But I was like, hey, we're going to put your faith to the test right here, and we did. So Heather is the director of Reliance Ministries, which also includes the Reliance Center. Is that how that works? Yeah. In Idaho, in Lewiston. Yeah, I founded Reliance Ministries, and we have Reliance Center, which is a holistic reproductive health clinic, otherwise known as a pregnancy center. a men's program on mobile unit,

and then we're getting ready to open our maternity house called Reliance House, and then we'll have Braveheart coffee, a coffee shop that the women that live in the maternity home will work in. And you guys are getting close to that. I want to mention this, because as we go through our conversation,

it's reliance ministries.com slash give if in our conversation you guys want to help these guys and what they're doing, which is amazing. So I'll tell you, our experience with Heather Jay, so we come in, we've never been to Idaho before, which is beautiful, by the way. That beautiful.

I mean, when we were driving in, we flew into Washington, I think, and then drove. Cof Canton. Yeah, drove over to you guys. And we were so high coming in. I mean, you're like on a mountain, and you're looking way down there at the bottom. You're like, there's a city, but it looks like it's 150 miles away. And we switch back down that mountain. It's a beautiful community around the river.

Is it the Snake River? Snake River, and then Clearwater, they meet right there at the confluence. You realize I've ducked. I've been to Idaho many times. Did you know that? We used to duck hunt there all the time. We took several trips.

I remember here. I've never been. I could live there. This beautiful. Because unlike, I mean, I'm getting into what, you know, my passion here about duck hunting. The reason I love it, though, is most places you go duck hunting, you have to like prepare the place. You turn it into a wetland or whatever.

But in Idaho, maybe I shouldn't say this, but you can just hunt. the snake river and you just go along the river put out some decoys whether there were ducks there or not and they fly the river and they just come in and you and you shoot them it was just amazing yeah and such a beautiful setting so so we go in and we're at the event Lisa and I are speaking and I'm hoping you remember this because I'm going to ask you to say what I said so we were sitting there and usually a director will give like a report on the pregnancy center from the year before we did this, we did that, and you were, you were doing this. But then you went into your speech, and I leaned over to you. What did I say? What are we here for? I mean, I've never

said that before. Just because you're here, but I really said that. I looked at least, I was like, why are we here? She's amazing. So just hearing you speak, your passion for life, you got into a little bit of your story, which I want you to tell today on the podcast, because it motivated us that night to be like, okay, we've got to step up our game here because Heather has set the stage. But it was great. I've loved it ever since. You now speak.

You're with the same bureau we are. And so you speak around the country. But tell us a little bit about your story, kind of what got you into this deal about being pro-life. Yeah. So my mom actually, she had kidney transplant the day after she graduated from high school. And the doctors told her she could not do two things. They said you can never go into the medical field.

then you could never get pregnant. And so she went to nursing school and got pregnant. She didn't like rules. And when she got- That sounds like you. Well, what was their problem with going into the medical field? Because she had had a kidney transplant, and so her immune system was super compromised.

And so they knew that her getting any kind of infection could compromise her, the kidney transplant. Her body could reject the kidney. I'm not very smart, so I'm going to have to clarify a lot, you know. But that makes sense. Okay. Yeah, so she, and then she got pregnant. And so her family was really upset about the pregnancy and said, you know, we have sacrificed a whole lot, our whole entire lives with your illness and your transplant to be able for you to live.

And now you're pregnant. So there was an abortion appointment scheduled to take my life. And my mom didn't go. She chose life for me. And so subsequently, after that, she got pregnant again. And the baby was, the doctor told her the baby was diagnosed. knows with trisomy. And so my mom had an abortion. And then growing up, she had 16 miscarriages when I watched my mom suffer through loss after loss after loss. And I was an only child. And do I

think that that was because of her abortion? You know, I don't know, but I believe that I was an only child because of some of those decisions. And, you know, my mom died. It'll be actually 14 years ago next week that my mom passed away. And before she passed away, I remember her telling me one time we were having kind of a heated discussion about being pro-life. And she kind of got in my face. And she said, you'll never know what that feels like to be faced with that decision. And I did what I thought I had to do. And I chose life for you. And you're the greatest joy I've ever had. But, you know, I had to choose differently after you. And so I knew I was pro-life. But, and then I had a, you know, a crazy life. I was pretty promiscuous as a child as a teenager. And then, um, I had a crazy life. And then, um,

Um, got married once, um, got to a pastor. Actually, we lived in Louisiana. We lived in, uh, Shreveport. I went to Louisiana Tech for about five minutes. I decided I hated school. And I was that when you met Stephanie. Yeah. Then I went to beauty school, um, in Shreveport. And, uh, that marriage lasted, um, a very short time. And then, um, I was dating a guy that I knew I should break up with with, but the night I was going to break up with them. Yes, me to marry him. And that night we got pregnant with my daughter. and I chose life from my daughter. And then that marriage also ended in divorce.

So I've had a very speckled past with that. But then I met my husband. We've married 18 years now, third times a charm. And he's here today. He's here today. He's the greatest blessing God's ever given me besides my daughter and his kids. But his oldest, Kendra, I was working for a pregnancy center. I was the development director at a pregnancy center.

And my heart was just getting turned on to the pro-life movement. and I was getting fully immersed in it, and I knew that this was my passion. But our daughter was, you know, she just graduated from high school. She's making some decisions we didn't love. And so we kind of had some tough love and we hadn't talked for a while. And my office manager called and she said, your daughter's down here and she needs to talk to you. And I thought, well, that's weird. And so I thought, well, she's either going to tell she's getting married or she's pregnant.

And so I walked down the stairs and she's standing there with a guy who I'd never met. And I thought, okay, for sure, she's going to tell her she's getting married or she's pregnant. And so I walked up to her. She said, hi, I gave her a hug. He said, hi, I shook my hand, and he was kind of white as a ghost. And she said, we have something to tell you. And I said, what is it? She said, I'm pregnant.

And I said, I'm going to be a grandma? And she said, what? And I said, well, didn't you just tell me you're pregnant? I'm going to be a grandma. And she said, you're not mad. And I said, well, I'm not going to throw you a party for the circumstances, but this is a baby we're talking about. So no, I'm not mad. I'm excited.

This is amazing. And I said, when's your ultrasound? And she said, right now. And I said, what? And she said, I came yesterday when you were on your lunch break and had a pregnancy test. And then my staff told me, which is great for HIPAA. But we went up and did the ultrasound. And she thought she was six weeks pregnant.

And she was 16 weeks pregnant. Wow. So I'm sitting at the top of her head as she's getting her ultrasound. She just keeps looking up at me as tears just running down her eyes. And she said, you're not mad. You're not mad. And I said, look at that baby. How can I be mad about this baby?

And so we got done with the ultrasound and they're wiping the jelly off her belly. And she's, you know, pulling her shirt down and getting ready to leave. And she said, okay, you can't tell dad. And I said, well, that's not how this works. I said, you have to tell your dad. And she said, okay, come with me. And I said, okay, I'll come with you. So I went with her.

I ran upstairs to my office real first. And I picked up the phone and I called my husband. And I said, Kendra's coming to tell you she's pregnant. be nice and hung up. And so I don't even know what he said after that because I hung up the phone. So she got in her car, I got in my car, followed her over to his office, which was... You wanted to prep him a little. Yeah, a little bit because he didn't know, you know, she probably just said,

Dad, I'm coming to see you. And I wanted him to, like, take a beat, you know? So it was a quick, quick beat. But so we pulled up to his office and we walked. I stayed in my car and she walked up to her dad. So my husband was facing me and our daughter and her boyfriend were facing away from me. And I watched her say something to him and he reached forward and shook her boyfriend's hand. And then I watched her say something else to him. And I watched him step forward

and envelop her in the biggest hug that I've ever seen. And I watched her shoulders drop. And she kind of sunk into her dad's arms. And I watched all the worries that she had just go away because she found that grace and that mercy that we talked about for all those unpaid pregnancies in the arms of her father. And he offered the unconditional love. And the first thing he said to her was, I'm going to be a papa, which is the first thing I said. And, you know, that was such a beautiful vision to me of what God's grace look like. And how these women with unpaid pregnancies have to know that they're loved first.

And so that's really what lit us on fire for this. And then I left that pregnancy center and we opened Reliance Ministries. And we just celebrated six years and God's doing amazing things. But Carter is now, he's seven and a half and is the greatest blessing that ever has happened to us. And we have two other grandbabies now from Kendra. And every time I tell it's story, my husband cries. But, you know, it's just a beautiful depiction of the way it's supposed to look like because every pregnancy deserves a congratulations no matter how it's rise.

And what you just described was when I heard you tell your story the first time, because I was a pastor for many years. And the biggest struggle was trying to deal with people in difficult situations, especially unplanned pregnancies, and not figuring out how to show grace and be there and to be celebratory about a baby. And so, and I look back on it, and I realize I wish I had heard. heard stories like yours way earlier to be way more graceful because we weren't and we weren't sure what to do. We didn't want to do baby blessings in public because then we're saying we're support

bad, you know, you get into these conversations. And so what I realize is no matter how a baby gets in a womb, it's a baby that needs to be celebrated and a mom that needs to be shown grace no matter what in going forward in a life. And so what you have done and a lot of other PRCs at least not do around the country gives us hope that this is the way forward. That's what I always say, unfortunately, what you guys are doing at reliance a lot of other sinners, that's the front line in the life battle. The churches, unfortunately, are much further back. Not saying we don't have things to contribute, but we're sometimes afraid to be on the front line because, well, what do we, you know, I mean, there was an immoral act that happened here. What are we going to do

about this? As if people don't sin every single day. It's like we miss the idea that we're all sinners, we all fall short, and a baby's not a consequence. A baby is a gift from God. The blessing. It's a blessing. It's a blessing. It is a blessing. And I always say this whenever I speak. I say, if you believe that God is the author of life, he authors life and he ends life, right? He's the author of life and the finisher of life. He authors life. And people, like, they get shocked, but I say he authors life in a marriage bed. He authors life in the back of a pickup truck. And he authors life during an awful sexual assault. He authors all of that life. None of that as a prize. It is a surprise to him.

And I think that people take that for granted because they think, well, not, you know, we're celebrating the sin. No, we're not. We're celebrating the life that God authored. That's right. Yeah. And then the only way to deal with sin and people's shortfalls is to first have them understand who Jesus is. Right. And then we can get about better decisions as we go along.

But as parents or grandparents, like you said, we have to figure out how to introduce Jesus into the setting. One of the things that Lisa and I do, and this, I just, I just, started doing this recently. A lot of times we get to ask to do the ask at the end of a banquet. And it just, and some other people may do this as well, but it hit me one day. I thought, the creator of the universe could have chosen any way he wanted to to appear on this earth. He could have been fully grown. He could have been, however he wanted to decide to become a human being, he could have done it because he created everything. He decided to come through the womb of a teenage girl in an unplanned pregnancy where there was all the fear and the doubt and the

husband to be was unsure about what he was supposed to do. And so by coming through the scenario that you face every single day, the Savior of the world was born. And so to me, it's like the best reason to be pro-life because who knows what some child, it won't be the son of God coming again, but who knows what they're capable of doing once they come into this world. So it just struck me that out of all the things we sit about in the Bible, that's exactly the way God became flesh. Well, the rumor was true. I guarantee all the religious people were like, oh yeah, God made you pregnant. Yeah, right. I mean, they... Oh, she was ashamed. You know she was shamed. You know she had the rocks, you know, because that's probably why you didn't hear much out

of Joseph. I mean, which... You're talking about an unsent hero in the Bible, because God chose for his reputation to just be absolutely destroyed. Right. And he had enough compassion that he was going to keep it quiet, you know, and try to like, okay, we're going to do this quietly. And, you know, he had a concern for Mary, but he still thought, I got to get away from this situation. I mean, like a lot of people do. Yeah.

I mean, this is real close to my heart. I mean, I've told about a little one that we've welcomed into our family the last two and a half years. And it's a long story. But, you know, with this woman who my wife. showed Jesus and tried and just didn't seem like it worked. I mean, she went on her way because she wouldn't take a drug test. And so then a couple years later, you know, we get this call and have this baby signed over to us.

You know, they're asking, is this legit or is this woman crazy? But since that happened, you know, we're about three years into it. But it's really had a profound effect on us just from, realizing that we made a few decisions in a place in her life, which sowed this seed of, I'm going to have this baby. And because in her past, it just wouldn't have been an option.

And so now we're seeing this boy grow, and seeing her grow as a daughter of the Almighty now. And I don't know, Missy and I have both said. We've had so many dreams. And, you know, you wake up in the middle of the night, you think about because you see all the little subtleties in his personality.

And I keep thinking this boy shouldn't have been here. You know, he just shouldn't, he shouldn't have been here. And somehow another, that's what I'm wanting to figure out in a message to get to the world. It's like once a baby is aborted, they're just, that's it. It was, call it what you want, tissue or a woman's, you know, right, all the things. All these arguments, you know, I think they call it now reproductive rights, you know. Women's health. But, you know, when you see, like, in your case, it doesn't shock me that you turned out to be a pro-life advocate because you're looking back on it thinking, well, I almost wasn't here.

I mean, and so I'm wondering how in our messaging, because it seems like we're losing the battle from every poll I see, even in our political. climate, you know, there's fixed to be a president. But people are, seeing the polls that I'm seeing, they're more in favor of the most radical view of abortion. And I'm like, well, what is wrong with their messaging here? Are we not having these moments like I'm describing where I'm seeing a kid who for all intensive purposes was pretty fortunate to be born? And, but I'm just seeing him on a daily basis thinking, man, what a wonder, you know, what an awesome little guy. I mean, I'd get my life for this kid. I mean, that's how far we've gone in our relationship. What do y'all think? I mean, you can go first, but then Heather King, just the idea of a national political issue,

which abortion is that we seem to be losing. Jason's right. I mean, it seems to be tipping elections the other way, whereas people like us sitting there, I was sitting there and watching, I think, well, I don't care. Who says they're going to be this way, it's a human rights issue for me. I could never say any weeks are okay. So I don't know. Go ahead, babe. Well, I think that I think a lot of people have believed the lie, just like you said, that it is just tissue. I think they don't think past the moment.

You know, you got to think about, well, what about a year from now, what about two years from now? but they can't do it. When a woman is in this position, and most of the time it's girl, not woman, but whenever she's in this position, she's afraid, she's usually alone. She doesn't know what abortion is. She has no idea.

Just like you didn't. Right. I had no idea. And most of the time she's being pushed into this decision. And so it's up to us. us as PRCs, as people who speak around the country, to get this out and to tell people, to tell these women who are in these desperate situations that there is another way. God provides another way.

And that's what all these PRCs are there for, is to help you in that moment of need. but I also think that a lot of these people who are totally pro-choice or what I would say is pro-abortion pro-abortion. So much of it is guilt and shame in their own life. Absolutely. Because they have either done this, they've participated in it in some way, or they've pushed somebody to do this in some way. And so it's just guilt and shame. And if they say this is wrong, if they ever get to that point and say, oh my goodness this was a life.

Well then they couldn't live with them. Then they got to deal with it. Yeah, exactly. You got to face it head on. What do you think? Yeah, well, we volunteered with an organization called Loveline. Abby Johnson started Love Line and Abby's on our board and I'm great friends with her. And we were helping this woman from Tacoma, Washington.

So we drove over to Tacoma. We had filled a baby registry for her. So we had an entire SUV fully gifts and drove over to meet her. And she was, before she started with Love Line, she was getting ready to have her, seventh abortion and four of them have been late-term abortions so 24 weeks which you know babies are being born at 22 weeks now and are viable and so she had had three or three excuse me not four three late-term abortions and she said the third one a late-term abortion is a three-day procedure so the the first day the amends for an injection into the baby and the baby um dies and then that

evening she goes home and that baby is is deceased in her womb and she said the last time i did it i remember laying in bed she's sobbing telling us this story she said i remember laying in bed with a dead baby in my belly and she said and i remember thinking how is this okay she said why isn't there anybody that fights for women like me to know that this isn't okay and i looked at her and i said i will I will fight until I die for people to know that this is not okay. But what she said was that, do you think, she said, I think people think that I'm just a monster, that I waited this long so I could, so I could end the life of a 24-week-old baby. And she said, it's not.

It's because I thought, well, maybe, maybe he'll understand me and baby daddy. Maybe he won't break up with me. Maybe my parents will help me financially. She kept hoping for the best and the best never came. So then this was her only option. And I think as a church, as the body of Christ, as we're believers of Christ, if we do not stand up in the face of transactional sex, pornography, abortion, it all runs together. If we do not show these women their worth and their value, they will never understand the value of the life inside of them. And that's the thing is that this woman had felt like she had nothing to offer, nothing to give.

She was relying on help from other people that never came. And so that resulted in almost seven abortions. And when she had this seventh baby that she had, she had, she had a little boy. And she sent me pictures and she said, I've dreamed of being a mom my whole entire life. And I finally feel like my heart is whole. And I know that her heart needed Jesus. But she felt like that baby completed a hole that was in her heart. And after that day, I thought, you know what, I'm never going to stop fighting, whether it's politically.

But here's the thing is that being pro-life might be a political stance, but being pro-love is an action. And so being pro-love means showing these women that they have value. We were at March for Life this past year, and a reporter was asking me at March for Life, what is one thing that you wish that people could know? And I said, it's that the woman comes first. And he said, what is that supposed to mean? And I said it means that we love the woman first. We will love her and take care of her, and then we will worry about that baby.

Because the woman's life, she needs to know that she has value. Otherwise, she's never going to understand the value of the life inside of her. And I think the opposite is true from the other side. They wouldn't admit it. They claim that they're out, they're looking out for the woman, but they're really not. No. Because they're hurting her emotionally, spiritually always. Well, what you just said when I told my story, that's exactly what happened.

I mean, I wish I'd have known that before. So we'd have probably fast forwarded that. But ultimately, it got to the mom, too. And, you know, we're working with her and helping her and that value in her. just it just came out of love from the situation you know that's why i said they're both are doing great and a fantastic and i think that's part of the process which is a rough process i mean i've shared this before of all the things i've been involved in this has been the most stressful dramatic emotional but it's been worth it because i truly see the love of god in this you know

and just the uh i mean i don't want to use the word magical, but there's just something when you focus on a little life that you think wasn't going to be here. It just does something to you on a daily basis. It makes you appreciate life of everything and everyone. When you chase a little two-year-old around that you watch that ultrasound and you watch that woman say, I have an appointment scheduled next week to take this life. And then you chase that two-year-old around and listen to him, laugh and look into his eyes. Your whole world changes because that is that is fruit and that is a living, breathing, laughing, running around miracle that happened because we were bold enough and obedient to God what he's asking us to do.

Oh, you're right. It's been a top five moment. I mean, outside of me coming to Christ and my own kids, just appreciating the gift of life. That's the same thing that happened with Zach and Jill, too. Yeah. And we were just with Ruth. Yeah. She's what, four now? Yeah. She'll be four this year. Yeah, I've actually shed more tears than the past two years. But they haven't been sad to her. They're just like, just out of appreciation. Which we talk about this, Heather, a lot on this podcast because we all, with Zach, adopting her with Jason Missy and sort of fostering sort of with what they're doing, that the whole

life deal is life. It's like beyond just, we're on kind of the front end, so are you, bring, getting this baby in the world. But then it's also, what do we do then? And the church has to be that, that body that is when. to do that and step up. Well, because we have to show grace and mercy. And if we don't show the grace and mercy to the women, they're not coming to us.

Well, that's what's kept away from the churches. And they're willing to come to you because it's a sort of medical, professional environment. So they feel like you've got to listen to me. But they don't feel like they have a shot in the church. And to be honest, a lot of them, they don't. Well, that's what happened in our situation was unusual. You know, we got the baby.

The mom, you know, at the time was in prison. So, I mean, there was no loving the mom. first, although she reached out to us, you know. And, but the initial meeting was filled with love. It was like, we're so happy that you made this decision, you know, and great. But she already felt that love, Jace, from Missy whenever she worked for Missy. Years ago, that's right. It's had to have been something that made her choose.

That's it. That's what, that's what, which is ultimately why we agreed to do this, because I told Missy, I was trying to put it into words. I was like, you, you did something through the spirit. of God at some point years ago because she couldn't even remember how, you know, last time she saw her, she had lots of women in that program. And then Missy looked up and she's like, when God throws you a pass, you catch it. I was like, that's it. But what I'm saying is then as he grew, he actually, in a weird way, allowed her heart to soften. Because all of a sudden,

you know, it was a year before she even met her son. You know, a year later she meets her son. Well, it had a profound impact on her, which, you know, granted Jesus, the seed was planted there. But now all of a sudden, she's like, well, this guy's great. He's awesome. He's great. But, you know, she also found her value in herself in that year. Yeah, that's right.

So she knew that she was loved in that year through her recovery. So we only got a few minutes left. I want you to tell Heather, so God has taken you, I mean, you're still doing your work in Idaho, but obviously he's expanding your reach because of what he's grown new to do there, which is one of the reasons you're here in West Monroe is because you're helping out our local center, life choices, with ways to be able to do this better. Talk a little bit about that. And also, you had four, as I remember from your speech, you had kind of the four, you know,

I don't know how you put it. Pillars. I was thinking pillars. Our model. Yeah. What was, give us that in our last few minutes. Yeah.

So we have, the first one is the pregnancy center, which we call a holistic reproductive health clinic because we're using those words from the other side. You know, we offer well-woman exams and pregnancy tests and SDD tests and everything the Planned Parenthood does except for abortion and transgender drugs, right?

So we offer women's health care there. And then our men's program, because we know that you can't teach a man to be a dad until he knows how to be a man first. And then... I'm liking this. Yeah, because, you know, they teach men that they need to be big, strong man, and we teach men that they need to be men of strength.

And there's a difference between those two. And so then Reliance House, which is the third phase of our model, and that's the phase that we're on right now. And we're very close to reaching our goal to be able to purchase a campus that actually would be able to house our clinic and our house on the same campus. And then the fourth phase is Braveheart Coffee. So many of the women that we serve have never had. had been able to keep a job. And so we want to offer some grace-based employment so that they can

work in the coffee shop and learn job skills. And we believe this model of, basically we find out whatever the barrier to life is and we break it down. They want to have an abortion because they're on drugs. We get them off drugs. They want to have an abortion because they don't have a place to live. We get them a place to live. They're an abusive relationship. We get them out. So we find what the barrier is. We break down the barrier. And we believe that this model can work all across the country. And so we coach other centers on on how to do things better. They're all doing incredible work. So many centers are doing amazing things. And I'm not the expert. I just love to, we, you know, we want to see people, people, love people. And we say our goal is to love women,

save babies, and make heaven crowded. So yeah, so we're doing that. You've come a long way from beards and babies at the, you got to work with what you got. I still think that was a good title. It wasn't great. It was. Well, the place was packed, as I recall. Yeah, it was the biggest event our town had ever had at that point. Yeah. So when we were there, you guys were rolling out your brand new road model.

Mobile unit. Yeah, yeah, which was very excited. Come all the way across the country, which is an amazing story. Yes. So someone asked recently, and I get asked this a lot, at least I do a lot of Q&As around events, and they say, what is the best thing about getting to do what you do? You're on television show, now you get to go and speak.

And I always say the same thing. It's the people we meet along the journey. And so you're one of those people, Heather, and we've been friends ever since. We cross paths from time to time and Rick as well. And we're just, we're so grateful what you're doing. Just like us, it was more than you could do in one place. And so God decided to open some of the doors for you, which is fantastic that you're getting to do now. So I want to mention again reliance ministries.com slash give.

If you guys want to contribute to them reaching their goal, which sounds like they're close. and you can be a part of that as well. So it's always good to see you. I love it. We're in this battle together. We are. And we've got to get the word out. Jason is right.

We got to just keep, don't give up. Right. Because we're in this thing for the long haul because we're fighting for people that can't fight for themselves. So it's up to us to do it. And I love it because every time you see Heather,

she has got a gigantic, beautiful smile on her face. Her eyes are lit up and she's just excited about life and about what she's doing. I just love it. It's an honor to be obedient to God. Absolutely. We're glad to have you on Unashamed.

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