Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 977 | Kirk Cameron’s Plan for America’s Spiritual Revival & How Jase Fell in Love with Jesus

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

World-famous actor and author Kirk Cameron joins Al and Jase, along with Brave Books chief strategy officer Zach Bell, to make a plan for Christian values to reinvigorate America. Kirk explains the need for action from people of faith to restore the values of family, courage, and character, and Phil gets on board with the vision presented in Kirk’s new book. The guys agree that conservatives don’t have as strong a vision for the future as the Left — and that must change. In this episode: Colossians 1, verses 12-13 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashame. Still just the two of us. They should write a song, Jase. I think they did. I sang it at the end of the last podcast, and I'm not a very good singer. But you sing a lot, so you're kind of like, sigh. You're not afraid to make a joyful noise. Yeah, I've really sympathized with my wife over the years because she is a singer. She is a singer. She's very good.

I like to sing, but when you live with someone who is a singer, you know, I was intimidated at first. But somewhere in our relationship, I started feeling more and more comfortable. But I'm not sure how she... It would be hard for me because Missy is so good, but she was also like her mother, a teacher. She taught music.

She taught people how to do it. So you have to be, when you teach something, you have to be correct and you have to be critical. And say critical in a good way, not just as a critic, but you've got to, if you're going to help somebody, what happens is if you don't have the gift, that's why I felt like when we were in choir, I mean, I wasn't a gifted singer. Now, I could hold a tune, you know, and part of an ensemble of people, I was not too bad. But I wasn't gifted. And so I was constantly in trouble. So if I were married to that person, you just have to embrace, I guess, that you're not. Really the person who helped me the most on this? Because I mean, I mean, look, we're going to, we go through Colossians, and it does the same thing as Ephesians, where it talks about singing Psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. Yeah. So I'm like, babe, I am filled with gratitude.

But the person who helped me is Saa. Yeah. Because he's always my default. Soye is fearless. He will, his voice rises above. love all others when he sings. And it is not on key, as they say. And so somehow he gets away with it.

But what my line is to Missy is I'm like, well, because she's like, babe, are you okay? Because I was just singing. Yeah. And so I get the joke. Yeah. Are you okay? Are you in pain? He was given a little subtle, sarcastic statement that it was a distress call of some sort.

especially when I'm in the shower or whatever. Yeah. She's like, are you okay? I'm like, yep, I'm singing with gratitude in my heart. And I'll say, well, I'm better than sigh. And she finally said one time recently, barely. But look, I've been like, because we grew up singing an acapella, you know, because this is our heritage and our background.

And there's no place to hide. There's no place to hide it. Because, you know, I go to these places and. speak and they got a full band up there. I mean, you can sing as long as you want to. No one's going to hear you unless they're standing right next to you. But Acapella, especially if you're singing loud, you're going to stand out. Well, seriously, what I did tell her that I think we had a serious conversation about it.

I was like, babe, you got to remember when I first came to Christ, and I've heard Phil say this, and I was the same way because I was a teenager. And, you know, when I got with the little teenagers, it was not cool to see. sing. Yeah. And that came from a worldly perspective. Exactly. Because they're singing along to the radio.

Oh, they're going down, you know, free falling and all, you know, free fall. And then you're going to sing about living forever and you're looking up in your mouth because it's not cool. Yeah. And so it was difficult the first couple times post-new birth for me to literally open my mouth and just. assimilate with the other singers. And of course, I had no idea about the four parts of harmony in

a cappella music. And Missy helped me understand, you know, that it's not my voice, it's my ears. I can't hear that I'm not on whatever I was supposed to be on. And so I take that for granted. But when I told of that, and it kind of made her give me a little bit of compassion because I was like, because now I sing worship music loudly, but usually by myself. But Jay, I mean, one thing I appreciated about you, even when you were a teenager, you owned it.

Like, when you were in the youth group, because they had the sign me up song and you just, you got so into it. I let it. Yeah. They let me lead. It was my song. And I've sang it before on the podcast. So I'll save your, if you do have good ears, I'll keep you from that.

But I was so excited. I love the words of the song, I'm like, I'm in. Because really, I mean, that's what, how Colossan starts off. It starts off about your identity and who you are. I belong to Christ, and I'm not ashamed of that. Well, we were, so we started a little church. I say we, I mean, mom and dad and y'all did out here because it was closer to where we were. And we're just sharing the gospel of people.

And, you know, dad was, you know, he had been a Christian a few years. And, you know, but I had just come back home and come back. to the Lord and I just got married. And so I was 20 years old. We had this little church and so they asked me to lead singing. Well, again, I don't, I have no skill set for it. But they were wanting to get me involved and, you know, I'm newly married. And so we got this little church and y'all are there.

You know, our families there along with another 10 or 12 families. Well, I mean, I was scared about it because, but then I just thought, you know, I got a, nobody else is really wanting to do this. And so I just stepped into it and did it. it was really funny because back in those days, the only person that could really sing well was the preacher's wife. Yeah. Remember her?

I remember Brenda. Brenda. Brenda. She could sing really well. And then you had the rest of us. So, but I was just kind of getting it going and trying to get it on the right. I understood that if you got it too high, we were all on a bind once we got a little into the song.

And sometimes, you know, those are the ones you just have to stop. Yeah, I remember that was a big transition for me. And really why I came to Christ, when we, when we, when we made that transition from that little church to the church where you're now reaching 40 years later. 40 years later. But when I walked down to that youth group, because my youth group out there at Luna was about four or five of us. And there was only one girl.

And she was a couple years younger than me. And I thought, boy, if I'm going to marry in the church. And one of the kids in the little youth group, believe that Star Trek was real. That's a fact. He got so offended when dad told him that Captain Kirk was not flying around up there. He said, oh, no, you're wrong. I remember that.

Yeah. And so when we moved up there, just the sheer amount of people in the youth group really lifted my spirits. I thought, man, there's not, once I got there, I realized that a lot of them had some problems. Well, they weren't in love with Christ. Their parents were making them come. But even then when we sang, it was just so awesome to be a part of. And I remember the first trip, the first youth trip that I took from that church, we went to Tulsa, Oklahoma.

And I don't know how many people were there. That was a few thousand. Yeah, quite a few thousand. Just having a big workshop. And of all songs that really got me, I think it was the first time I ever shed a tear during a song, was the guy preached, and we're in this arena. There's not an open seat.

Here I am at that time about 16 years old. And they sang just as I am, which is a song I had heard many times. Oh, yeah, imitation. When you get 50,000 people singing it. Oh, yeah. Man, I mean, the hair stood up on the back of my neck. And you know what I thought of in that moment?

I thought of being in. the next life, heaven and earth coming together, we're imperishable beings. We see Jesus for who he is face to face. And I thought us singing a song. And I just thought, okay, this is, this is real. This is powerful. It really moved me. Yeah, there's power. And it really speaks of, you know, the setting in Colossians here. You got a few people. Rome is in control. You feel insignificant. You hear the simple story of Jesus and at first you're like oh this is awesome but then you look around and you're outnumbered you're like you're getting persecuted which i was in high school i mean it was the most difficult time of my faith because people were making fun of me but what i did is what paul's recommending

uh to the coloshans he just starts off with the the good news the gospel it explains everything in life what you and willie did and again my observation and was just kind of already being older than y'all, is you started with that group sharing Jesus, because obviously, like you said, there were some within the group. It hadn't really fallen in love with him yet. You helped lead them,

and that strengthened the whole group. Yeah, that's the point I was getting to. I think we do so many podcasts, and we talk about a lot of details and all, but the thrilling, revealing of who Jesus is is so powerful, and it stops people in their tracks. because when we there was an nt right quote about uh the story of jesus the power in it is that he explains and he and he transforms all in one motion yeah and so that's kind of what i've built

my presentation on uh i thought here's these people in the world i'm going to high school with who are ridiculing me because i have given my life to jesus i mean persecution to the 10th power, making fun of me, all sorts of things. But only when I opened my mouth and defended Jesus, did really the power get revealed because I thought they were going to have some reasonable explanations for their view of life. And what I found was nothing, crickets. And so when you start asking simple questions, you know, who are you? what are we supposed to be doing here?

You know, how can I do it? Because these are the kind of things Paul addresses, you know, he talks about their identity. He talks about right and wrong. Because everybody wants to know, okay, am I doing what's right in life? Am I on the right side of things? Am I with the right group?

Do my standards for right and wrong measure up. And, you know, in Christ, all of that begins to make sense. because we realize that it's not really, it's not based on our righteousness. He's going to work in us and through us. Right. And so, you know, that's why I started coming up with questions

because Jesus asked a lot of questions in revealing kingdom truths and introducing the kingdom. So those three basic questions, I started asking my buddies back when I was just beginning to sing for the Lord and different things. and they'd make fun of me on the oh you're up there singing you know what's that going to do but i asked those three basic questions how did you get on the earth what are you doing here and how do you plan on leaving and it's amazing that those three basic human questions literally put fear in their eyes

towards me it was like and so i think a lot of times when you think about why is the gospel good news why it bears fruit. It reveals who God is. There's only one God. There's only one God capable of knowing the humans because he created us. And I think just revealing that story, well, just think about it. We didn't choose to be here. You know, how did we get here? We got here somehow. Yeah. And you go back to Genesis 1, 1 through 3, and you're like, okay, I think this is how we got here. You know, you read Paul's sermon. in Acts 17, you know, when he goes through the, we were made on purpose. We were from one man.

He made all nations of men. He determined the exact places they should live in the exact times. God did this so that men would reach out and seek him. We're there for God's offspring. So I'm quoting that Acts 17. Well, that explains what we're doing here. Yeah. God created us to find him.

And we sing about what matters. And that's why if all that matters to you is Taylor Swift, you know, that's, you're going to sing it. Well, ask her how she got here, what she's doing here, and how she's leaving. And that's why I think when, in Colossians, when he got to that, you're part of the kingdom. Yeah. I'm just saying the simple story of Jesus being declared, especially among those who don't believe it. It's amazing how all of a sudden they go from persecuting you to being on the defensive immediately. No, you're right.

They're like, well, it scares them is what it does because these are, this is real. Right. All right. So we're going to take a break. Won't be just Jason and I? We do have a guest today. We're excited about a very famous person that's a good guy. And I don't, not sure.

I think we've had him on the podcast before. But lately, my record of remembering who's on the podcast is not too good. So we'll take a break. When we come back, we'll have our guest and we'll tell you a little bit about it. So here's our guest, by the way, Kirk Cameron. And we have Zach. Zach, what's your last name on there, right? Zach Bell.

Zach Bell from Brave Books. Yes, sir. He's with us as well. And he just got recruited in. He was just hanging out with Kirk and traveling with him. And it's like, hey, we don't have anybody on the podcast. We need a Zach. So there you go.

Hey, so it's a pleasure to be here. There we go. Is this your first podcast? Yeah, you know, I've done, yes. Pretty much. Well, didn't y'all just do the duck call room with Si? Yeah, we did. Yeah, we were just there.

Zach wasn't on. No, he wasn't on. I was just listening to in. What was that like, Kurt? Because it's the Sci Show is what I call it. Oh, my goodness. That was the most fun I have had at a podcast. It was so much fun.

And so we had a great time talking about America. We had a great time. We had a great time listening to Cy preach. Yeah. I mean, he's just, he turned into. He's got the bug. He turned into, he reminded me a Phil. Yeah.

He's, hey, hey, listen, listen, hey. How many times did he hit the table? Yeah, like that. So many times. And he just kept coming back to Jesus that why should we be afraid of anything when we have a relationship with a man who raises the dead? It was just awesome. He's actually volunteering to come on our podcast and he's been on a few times in the last few weeks.

Yeah. Because I think for years, he always said, well, I'm not a priest. And because he just, he felt weird about that. He's like, I'm a behind the scenes man, you know, servant, whatever. Yeah, right. I was like, I've seen him in his rhinestone suit at the front of the stage with a guitar. I think he's come out of his shell. That is right.

He had a surgery a couple years ago. And I, you know, when you have surgeries at his age, he's like, because he told me before he went in, he's like, hey, you may never see me again. I was like, great lines. I was like, I will see you again post resurrection. Yeah, we're all going. He's like, well, yeah, I know, I know, I know. But I think in that moment of saying, well, this may be it and he come back, all of a sudden, he feels better.

Yeah. He has been on fire for Jesus. And he's just speaking to everybody he sees, which is awesome. I've deemed him psycho for Jesus. Psycho for Jesus. Which is pretty good. That's accurate, and I bet he loves it. He does.

So, Zach, you're a brave books and which, of course, Kirk's written, is it several now? Several books with brave books, yeah. The children's books, and then Missy did one as well. Jeff and Jessica did one. So you kind of have a good connection with all of us through Brave Books. Yeah, it's been super fun working with the Robertson family. It's been a blast. Every single time we've gotten a chance to partner up with Missy and or Jeff and Jess to create a book.

it's turned out phenomenal. And the topics that we've gotten to hit, family, adoption, you know, love within the home. So it's been super great. And you guys were a part of, this is the new book that we're going to be talking about today, born to be brave, which I thought that was good, that you weren't brave in the town. That's pretty good. And you guys were also a part of this as well. Yeah, yeah.

Kirk's been phenomenal to work with. And, yeah, got to partner up with him for this nonfiction adult book, Born to Be Brave, How to Be Part of America's Spiritual Comeback. the topic of this book could not be more timely. Well, I've read it, and I love it. So we're going to talk about it. But first I wanted, so I didn't, first thing I realized, Kurt, that I did not know when I was just reading the jacket on the book, is that you are no longer in California. So, so all these years we've known you, you've been on our show, we've been on your show.

You've always been a California guy, so where you were born and raised. Of course, you're a famous actor. But now you're in Tennessee. So you are officially a southerner. So what's that like? What's it been like? How's your family, your kids? Just tell us how that it came to be. You know, as a believer, it is so easy to feel comfortable calling Tennessee my home because of the community that's there and the values that are generally in the water and in the air. You've got your East Tennessee and I'm sorry, you're East Nashville and you know, you've got your you've got your purple hair platoon everywhere in every city.

But you get out into the country and there's good people out there. So I'm very excited. California has always been my home up until recently, but when our kids started moving out of California, because it's going to pot. You know, it's the land of fruits and nuts. It's the land of loose nuts and bolts, and everything's falling apart. It's quite literally going to pot. Yeah, exactly. Quite literally fruits and nuts.

And now my kids are in Tennessee. We moved to Tennessee because we want to be with them. And then two more children moved to Tennessee, and then we have a granddaughter. So we're reconnecting as a family in a place that's all about family values and we couldn't be happier. Yeah, it's the old what we do here, we call it compound living. You know, there are kids nearby. Of course, Jase is in the, he's the only one out of all of everybody, all the other Robertsons, all our kids are right around us. And Jace's kids all moved to Tennessee.

They all moved to the Nashville area. So the next thing I know, we have a little farm just outside Nashville because I was like, babe, I can't live in Nashville. I mean, in the town. In the town. No. I was like, no. So my son, Reed, found us a just wonderful little place in the woods on the top of the hill.

And everything was going lovely till a tornado came. But we're four months into the cleanup and renovation, which Reed does houses. So he's taking the initiative of that. So, but we had the same deal because one of those grandkids started coming out, because now Reed has three under three. Wow. So just imagine what's going on there. That's why people say, why don't you just stay with them?

I'm like, are you crazy? No, we're visiting and we love it. But there's a time where it's time to go to our house. Yeah. So. And you tell me, one of your daughters is dating a young man that's part of our unashamed nation is what we call it, listens to our podcast. Yeah, yeah, he does.

He really does. And, you know, he appreciates something about you. or y'all as i've learned to say now that i'm a good job you're coming around slowly is that you have a way of explaining the bible and the fact that you could do a bible study on this podcast and communicating the gospel in a way where uh it's it's real it's authentic it's transparent it's not polished up it's not dressed up in a three-piece suit and it's the kind of gospel that can reach anybody yeah whether you're rich or poor whether you're country or city, whether you're sophisticated or simple, it's a heart transformation that happens to

anyone who will believe. Yeah, that's kind of what sign I have in common. You know, my biggest fear as a kid was public speaking. You know, I, in the eighth grade, I got up from a class at public school because it was called speech. And I thought, I need this because the English language where I'm from is messy you know i thought it was gonna i'm gonna be able to articulate yeah the english language because i you know y'all heard sigh half of what he says you're like what uh you need subtitle and they english they said no you're gonna get up and give speeches so i got up and walked out of the class and the teacher followed me she's like where are you going what's your name i mean it was first day i was like i'm back then i was just

Jason Robertson, I said, I don't do public speeches. And she's like, well, you're not dropping my class. I said, oh, yeah, I'm dropping. I'm not coming to this class. I will never get up. It's a peek in front of people. But so to finish that story, I bribed the principal with white perch and ducks when those seasons came in to get out of that class. So I actually won.

By the way, learn that from dads because dad said that's what got in through college was white perch and ducks and deer, you know, to the right professors. Which is a true story because the guy said, well, you don't want to take speech. He said, well, what do you like to do? I said, well, I hunt and fish. And he said, so you pick a lot of ducks. I was like, yep. He said, I tell you what, I'll let you take an extra P.E.

But when the moment comes and I call for you, I want you to help me with a duck. So that was the arrangement. I didn't really know what that meant. But what that meant was when the winter came, I was out in the park. lot picking his ducks and that's how i got out of that's how they do it in california right oh yeah that's what gets you through your education yeah but i tell you that long story to say uh you know and now i speak all over the country and because it occurred to me and my opening line is always the same thing i'm like my biggest weakness you know how in the celebrate recovery programs

people get up they're like i struggle with whatever yeah and i'm like i struggle with public speaking, which people laugh when I say that. It's my opening line. Yeah. But what I've learned is that God takes your weaknesses and turns them into his strengths. And that authenticity that I think you were describing from our podcast, that is all we got. You know, I say, I'm not a preacher, but I'm a believer. There's no hidden agenda. And so that's what we did in the first segment before you got here. The simple story of Jesus really explains everything that needs explaining. life how you got here what you're doing here and where you're headed well as human beings i think those are pretty big questions if you're living on the earth and you realize i'm perishable i'm not sure

where my what my purpose is and i've often wondered how i got here where did life come from and so he explains it but then he he also transforms us into new creations and you know lived out it makes sense to people and it's appealing because it's based on faith, hope, love, loving your fellow man, bringing people together. And truth. And truth. We're not making this up. What's real. And I think, you know, even we were kidding about Sa, even in his growth process, because we're all growing in the Lord. I think he finally realized in the last couple years, even though he was saved, he was influencing others, he just, he's been so lit by the fire of Jesus. that he can't be quiet about it.

He's like, I'm telling you, boys, this is it. We're being resurrected. And maybe some of it has to do with the older you get. The resurrection looms larger. But I think he doesn't want anybody to miss out on this. And really, when you boil it all down, that's what we're all sitting here talking about this. Don't miss this. There's a way to live forever.

So the last time we had sound, Kerr, you appreciate this. He and dad, and dad, you know, was. got into it that day too, but they got going. They got so loud. Jason and I were sitting over here laughing at the two of them because they're yelling. Yeah. At each other. At each other and the audience. And Maddie got so nervous over there. I saw her up flitting around trying to, you know, control the volume levels on what was going on. This is, I guess what you just experienced. Yeah, in fact, we said that. I said, look, we're all sitting around here, the four of us, yelling at each other. Yeah. But we're not, we're not, we're not angry. We're encouraging each other.

reminding one another of the things that matter, and it's gonna fire us up to go out of this room and love our families and do what's good. Well, he actually gets angry at me, but, because I, because when you, when you were talking about, now what is, his name is Jason. When you said a non-fiction or fix, you know, because Si, 95% of what he says is absolute fiction,

but it's done in a way to entertain. The five percent I'm leaving for anything he's talking about Jesus, you know, but he gets so upset at me that I don't believe that there's large cats roaming the woods, Black Panthers, Cougars, Jaguars, they're around every tree, according to him. Yeah, because Zach mentioned nonfiction book a minute ago, but with Sa, that's a very blurry area. What's fiction and what's non-fitting? In his mind, it's all real. It's all real.

I mean, in his mind, he was chased by wolves when he was a teenager. and it sounds like an interesting story until he says his tennis shoes burst into flames. They literally were melting. From the friction because of the speed at which he was traveling while being chased by wolves. And he set every Olympic record. He shattered them. He said he ran the 100-yard dash was the way he put it, 100-meter run for 10 miles. Like at that level.

How long ago was this story? When did this take place? When he was a teenage. But his, he smelled burning rubber during the wolves chasing him. And he was looking around. He thought someone was burning a tire. And I've heard this story many times. And then he realized it was due to the friction of the rubber shoes on the asphalt.

And they literally first into place. And they started melting and burning. He was running fast. He was running real fast. Well, then, so I talked to one of the cuts. from the family years ago because we had heard of this story growing up and it was like they saw a coyote. I mean, so it went from seeing a coyote to this story. That's how side tells us. It's how big is the fish, right? You know, the fish gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.

There's a reason why America was also. He set all the basketball records because Phil had got, got involved with a skunk. And their mom, my grandma, made Phil bury the skunk. And so, Si was having a problem getting separation on the basketball court. So he digs up, the skunk rolls around in it. Then when he played basketball, he looked like LeBron James. And no one to be near him. Yeah, because he said it was this coming out. I was like, Sa, this can't be real.

People were leaving the gym. He said he scored 100 points that night. 100 points that night. Never missed a shot. People couldn't stay with him. He's like, he had the secret weapon boys. It was the three-month decayed skunk or whatever. So I'm like, I don't believe you.

But I'm the only person in the family that challenges the story. And so we argue a lot. So when Sa did his first book, and you'll appreciate this, Zach, they were going to do something like a little gift book because they didn't think Sa had it in him to write a real book. And the publisher called me and asked me what I thought because I had helped with Dad's book. And I said, oh, you're missing the boat if you do that. size's book needs to be him telling his life story through his stories and just just and and I'll help I'll go to the interview and I'll cue him up I know all the stories and it'll be the most entertaining and touching book because size life is amazing and that's that's the book

psychology so I mean it came about because they were going to really blow the opportunity and just do sayings from the shows or whatever you know so so we're we both we're we're all on television, Kurt, but you did it the traditional way. We did it the reality way. And it's funny because I thought about this a minute ago talking about public speaking. Whenever, I never was nervous about us doing the show because we were being ourselves. Yeah, you get to play yourself. You play yourself. But the one time when I did a cameo on a movie and it was a Roe versus Way was the name of the movie, but they were trying to get people that kind of had big followings and stuff on social media so they could push the movie because it was kind of a low, low tech kind of

movie. I was so, I had one line, but I was so nervous because I was with real actors. Well, I'm not an actor. I mean, I couldn't be myself. I'm playing another person. And I was petrified. I mean, like, I got through it and the scene turned out okay. I was only in two scenes in the movie, but it gave me an appreciation for guys like you that can play other people well like it's really you. I mean, that's a whole different ballgame than what we did. I mean, we were ourselves like we are on this podcast, but what you do is amazing. Well, that's interesting that you say that. And I totally relate to what you're saying because it is hard to remember all those lines and it's hard to get up there and be somebody that you're not and you're performing.

Like right now, you're not really performing. You're just being yourself. But for a lot of people, it's interesting. It's the exact opposite. You notice that there are some introverted people who are so shy, you put them up on a stage in a costume and they play another person and all of a sudden they come out of their skin because they're not comfortable being themselves around other people. They feel like I'm not worthy. I'm a piece of trash or I'm not talented enough or I'm just awkward. But if I can play somebody else, all of a sudden they feel like I'm a superhero.

Yeah. It's very interesting actually. Comedians who get up on stage like Jim Belushi and other types of people. And then in their personal life, they're all. often very quiet, introverted people who experience a lot of sadness. Yeah. But you'd never know it with their public persona. Yeah.

Yeah. And we've met a lot of people before who are celebrities and we're kind of disappointed because, you know, you're expecting kind of the person they were and they just weren't that person. Yeah. All right. So I want to talk about the book because it's so good. I read it and I told you that, Kurt. It's a...

Thank you for reading the book. It's so good. I'm honored. And by the way, dad told me, because he's down in his back. he's not here today, but that he read it. He doesn't read a lot outside of the Bible. And he said, you know, tell old Cameron that, you know, he got it right on that. You know, that was his endorsement of your books.

That was pretty good. That means it's really good. That's exactly what it means. You have to kind of interpret, Cy and Phil. So here's one of the things I wanted you to talk about because there's so much good in here. And I take notes when I read books that are interesting to me. And you have a, I want to read the, quote because we talk about NT.

Wright a lot on this podcast because he's just, Jason, I love him and his stuff is excellent. I mean, and kingdom-wise, I think he sees it like we do. It was like the kingdom just to set this up. And we've been studying Colossians, you know, and there's a famous couple of verses

when it says in verse 12 and 13, we give thanks to the Father who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light, which as a Christian, I always thought, oh, that's a future type thing that's fixed to happen. But then the next verse says, for he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the sun he loves. And when you think about it, well, we just switch timeframes here. Yep. We're talking about now. And he really helped me understand how as spirit-filled people, and going back to Jesus,

His prayer when he was teaching disciples how to pray. You remember when he prayed that the kingdom would come on earth as it is. You said this in the book. In heaven. And why, I tell you, with the first time I read that, I guess subconsciously I knew that were kingdom people. But it really made me put an emphasis on who we are now, making God's presence known now, especially when there's tragedy and there's storms. and here's God rushing in through his people, the kingdom,

with the explanations of life and the hope of life. Yes. The love of life. You know, and so it's when people say, where is God? It's like, well, check with his kingdom. It's spirit-filled people. You just articulated to me what the whole book is about. The idea is we talk about wanting to try to somehow change our culture,

change our country and do that. But then we sit someplace in a church building and have no impact on what, going on. And that's really your whole point. So I want to read this quote, and then I want you to talk about this idea of heavenizing earth, because it's so good. Here's the quote. It's from NTI writes the start of chapter two. Jesus's resurrection is the beginning of God's new project, not to snatch people away from earth to heaven, but to colonize earth with the life of heaven. That, after all, is what the Lord's Prayer is about, which is exactly what NTI writes. So the We're tracking. We're tracking. Yeah, man.

The chapter's called heavenizing earth. So tell folks what that concept kind of was to you. And really, to me, that's the theme that kept coming back to me that was so powerful. Yeah. Well, what comes to my mind is that if you go back to the beginning of the Bible, you go to chapter one, Genesis chapter one, you see that God's creating the world. And then he puts man on a mission. And he says, be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, take dominions, subdue all that he has created. And there you have. The man and his mission, it's going to happen through the family over the course of generations. You don't even have civil government at that point. You don't have armies and politics and all of this stuff. There is self-government, family government, under God, filling the earth, walking with God and fellowship, and you have the cultural mandate. That is, go out and create the culture. Go and subdue and govern.

Beautify, protect, mature. and develop God's world in ways that are consistent with his character. There's the cultural mandate. Jesus comes back as the last Adam, thousands of years later, and he, in essence, reiterates that cultural mandate. After he reconciles man back to God, that was the first thing that had to happen. We're dead in our sins. He's got to resurrect a spirit and give us a nature that is now loving.

God and wanting to do his ways and able to overcome sin. And then he reconciles us to that cultural mandate when he says, Lord, may your kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And then in the Great Commission says, now go into all the world and disciple all nations, teaching them to obey all that I've commanded you. So that cultural mandate and in that great commission, I think can be summarized by, boys,

I've made you a new creation. I've changed your heart. You're going to soon be filled with the Holy Spirit. We're reconnecting you with the mission of heavenizing the earth. Now go fight win. Go change the world. And I'll be with you on three. Go.

And they did. And they did. And they turned the world upside down. And today we have Christians so scared and depressed by the giants in our land, big tech, big government, big pharma, big business. that they're sitting on their couch watching Fox News crying in their chick-fil-a-soup praying for a rapture. Yeah, that's it. And we've created this self-fulfilling prophecy of a deteriorating future simply because we're not being salt and light in the culture.

And what do our kids see? Well, kids just get saved because we're going to be out of here soon and this whole thing's going to be a cosmic dumpster fire. Meanwhile, the extremists on the left, have a vision of victory for their worldview and believe that their ideas are powerful enough to create heaven on earth. Let's have love for everybody. Let's have freedom to do this and freedom to do that. No restraints. And those kids going, well, they're the ones who care about the environment. They're the ones who seem to care about loving people, especially the outcast. They're the ones that want to bring people in from other countries and give them asylum and a dream and a hope.

They're the people that want to end all the problems in the world that's caused by greed and capitalism. And all of a sudden, we have handed our biblical playbook of creating a beautiful culture over to the enemy who's starting to run our plays better than the family of faith is. Yeah. That's so good. Yeah, really.

And I love it because you use the Occupy Wall Street in there. I mean, we have to reoccupy our own culture. Yeah. Because we basically just walked away and said, you guys do it. And then we bought into separation of church and state and said, well, we'll just down here in the church building, dying. Yeah. As you down take that culture and honor.

So that is so good. A couple other quotes I love in the book. This is one from D.L. Moody. A revival means days of heaven upon earth. That's a great quote. And then one that you said, I think it was in the jacket, is we're not fighting. I'm going to use this on Sunday in my sermon.

We are not fighting for victory, but from victory, which I thought was really strong. Because the idea is we already know the outcome. We know we win. Yeah. So you're not, it's not like you're saying we're somehow finding, hoping this is going to happen for us. We're fighting from victory, which means you lead other people into the victory, which is such a powerful concept. So from an evangelism standpoint and a reaching out to people, that's what spoke to me through reading the book.

I was like, and you're right, it's get off the couch. You used it as a be a reformer or not a reporter. We've got a lot of reporters. Yep. Talking about all the bad things that are happening. That's right. We're complaining about the border. We're complaining about the economy and all these.

the hypocrisy and the double standard. Listen, but you know what? The enemy is more than happy to have us just congratulate ourselves on properly identifying all the lies and the deception. But if we don't have our own strategy, our own plan, and we won't have a strategy and plan for improving and turning the culture around if we don't believe it's possible. And that's why I love to put stories in the book of people like Ronald Reagan during the Cold War, up against the Soviet Union. Everybody thought that the best way to stop a world war was simply detente.

It was to gradually decrease the amount of nuclear warheads in both of the countries, which would guarantee a long-lasting stalemate, but at least it wouldn't lead to a war. Reagan said, no, I'm not for that. I want to win the Cold War. And he started ramping up the strength of it. And people thought that he's irresponsible, reckless, that he was crazy. Warmonger. It worked because eventually the people within the Soviet Union realized that this was all propaganda and lies coming from them.

And the Soviet Union fell quickly after Reagan was out of office. And it was all happening because he and a group of people thought that it was possible when everyone else said it wasn't. And that's true for King Alfred of Wessex in the 9th century, BC, up against the Vikings when they were slaughtering and Bush. and butchering and burning their way through the world, he said, no, there is a God in heaven who will come to the aid of our cause, who is with me. And he longed to return that society back to the golden age where England loved the Word of God and applied the Ten Commandments and the gospel to all of their society. And he did miracles. St. Patrick did the same thing, the Pilgrims did the same thing here. And we need to have that size mission for men in the

church today. If you don't mind, I just want to say this that, do you know, let me ask women who are watching this, do you know why guys like us watch football games and get crazy about it and why we watch MMA matches and why we will watch Russell Crow movies over and over braveheart, gladiator, and we just lose our minds for this stuff? Do you know why? Because most Most men are living their lives vicariously through other men who are doing bold, competitive, consequential things, and they feel like they're not doing it in their own life. And in our churches, I have seen that we have shrunk the mission for men down to the size of mice, rather than giving them a man-sized mission that God gave to the pilgrims or to William Wilberforce,

to end slavery. How about we say, instead of, hey, men, be nice to your wife, don't look at porn, and, you know, just keep your nose clean till the rapture. And by the way, could you please set up the chairs for the girls' bake sale on Saturday? We say, why don't we get every Christian in the country, 80 million of us voting for righteousness in the public square and end this nonsense? How about we end children's trafficking? How about we clean up the media and the arts by those companies and beginning to use them as tools for good. Well, most people think, man, because I've read the end of your book, the whole thing's going to come crashing down. There's no hope. Why polished brass on a sinking ship? Revelation says the whole thing's going to go up

and fire. So we're just wasting our time. We're postponing the inevitable. And I say, wait a minute, have you ever heard of the revivals that have happened throughout history? Thousands of years where great awakenings have come to Ireland through Patrick, through, Others in Scotland and in all throughout Asia and in South America today. And even five, you talk about here in America. And the ones in America, they've always come during times of spiritual apathy, moral decline, political corruption, and economic collapse. Yeah. Where are we at right now?

That's it. This could be our finest hour. Yeah. I mean, like one of the biggest Jesus movements ever was after the sexual revolution. Yeah. And you talked about that from 68, which, by the way, Kirk. says in the book, we're about due. You know, it's been about every 60 years or so, roughly, you know, 50 to 70 years is how

these cycles have run. In fact, I wanted to say one more thing, though, about that because before you came on in the cold open, I actually discussed that. It started, you know, it starts with individuals in their little world. I mean, here was me, you know, I'd seen my dad come to the Lord. Mm-hmm. And, you know, their lives changed. but it, I had, I had not surrendered to Jesus because just like everyone else, I was a bit fearful

of what my friends, I was a teenager. I was 14 years old when I was looking around at this while my buddies were concerned with booze, dope, and women, as my dad would categorize that. That was the topic of conversation. And so, you said it so much nicer than he says. Yeah, I left out the graphic, you know. Phileism. pictorial images that Phil Gills when he describes that.

But I remember being a scared, shy little boy thinking, you know, do I really want to do this? And so in a moment of studying the Bible to try to kind of disprove it, I was a skeptic. I was reading the book of John thinking, this guy was here 2,000 years ago. This can't be right. But the more I read, the more I was like, you know what? this is making too much sense. I literally fell in love with Jesus and I made my decision. But the hard part then was going to my buddies

because at first I just tried not to do wrong kind of your your illustration of that. Just try to stay, keep your nose clean, try to survive high school. Don't be as bad as somebody else. Well, I realized after a few months of that, this is not going to work. I'm going to have to draw a line. in the sand and the first time I uttered the reason why I was not fixed to go out

because they were planning what was fixed to happen and I was like no I'm not doing it and I uttered that but that moment is the bold brave adventure it started right there because look it became chaos and conflict and what I noticed was they didn't have any answers for the things I was discussing in Jesus. And what I love about the gospel is that the gospel is so much more than what is often preached in churches today. And NT Wright gets this almost as well or better than anybody. The gospel is a totalizing force.

Yeah. It is a force that doesn't just transform my heart and get me to heaven. And I'm just waiting for that event to take place. It's a force that transforms my heart. and then a man with a transformed heart is now beginning to transform his marriage, his family, his community, and his world. That's what repentance and revival is for.

It is to bring heaven to earth. In the face of opposition. In the face of the worst odds. And that's what happened to you. That's what happened to Phil. That's what happened to all of us. Atheist in Hollywood as a teenage TV star. What are the odds I would come to Jesus?

But that's what God does. And then my point is the gospel then moves its way out to nations and nations experience revivals. It's like the prodigal son. Here you have a boy who wants his inheritance. He's looking at pig slop thinking this is good. And then he realizes as he comes to his senses, I had it so much better before. As a nation, we had it so much better before when we built our families, our churches, and our civil government on the scriptures. what we need to do is come to our senses and turn back.

Hey, if I could give a shout out here to a song that I've been listening to that essentially sums up what I'm saying in my book, Born to Be Brave, it was written by my daughter's boyfriend, Alex Lambert. He actually sang the National Anthem at the Vanderbilt Alabama game. That Vanderbilt won. That Val and Vanderbilt won. You should take credit for this. He inspired Vanderbilt.

I think Alex's performance inspired. I was thinking it was a miracle, but now we almost have confirmation. That's right. But listen, he has one of his songs I love. It's called My Story. He says, I was running from myself. And again, this is your story and the prodigal son's story. But I didn't get too far.

He said, yeah, my shadow's weighing me down, even in the dark. I needed something to break these chains from who I used to be. If anyone's going to write these wrongs, I know it's got to be me. This is my story. This is who I am, good and bad. is my story. No one else can write it for me but me. That's the story of someone who repents and turns to God on the individual level. That's the story of a nation that comes to its senses and says, oh God, what have we done? Tear open the heavens and send down your grace and mercy.

Give us a revival and an awakening in this country. And I believe that we can do it because we were born to be brave. I love it. Awesome. And thank you for you guys at Brave Books for coming alongside, you know, because you have to have ways to be able to get messages out. Obviously, Kurt's got a great message. Great stories in here about some of the readings and all that stuff and stuff we, right of gains and stuff and missing stuff we've seen. And just, it's true bravery, which we love. So it's a book out? Is it? The book is out? And we're hoping to send it to number one on the New York Times bestseller list for the purpose of saying to the publishing industry, we want more books about spiritual revivals in America. Amen. I love it. So check it out.

Born to Be Brave by Kirk Cam, wherever you buy your books. And let's get it up the chart. I love it. Yeah, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, anywhere books are sold. You can get a signed copy at Born Bravebook.com. And we'll put that up on the header, too. So, Kurt's always a pleasure. I could have talked another hour.

Let me come back whenever fills down for the count again, and I'll jump in on the Bible study with you. I'd love it. Oh, you would, and you'd be great. And you like to hunt, too, so we love that. And Zach, thank you for jumping. Yeah, yeah, it was fun. It's a blessing.

All right, we'll see you next time on Unashame. Thanks for listening to The Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to Blaze TV at blazedtv.com slash unashamed.