Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 992 | Jase Opens Up About Being a Mean Kid (It Was All Willie’s Fault) & Zach’s New Podcast

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

Jase is accused of being “the mean one” during his childhood, though he’s prepared a defense that lays the blame squarely at Willie’s feet. Jase participates in a neighborhood tradition that he’s ignored for decades, and it turns out that he enjoys it even more now. Al looks back on his legacy in the pulpit as he witnesses two young preachers delivering a powerful sermon he authored decades ago, and Zach drops big news about his new podcast, “Not Yet Now,” premiering November 19. Check it out: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/not-yet-now-with-zach-dasher/id1770712976 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5AfQIyrbRtYuQNN9kIqFw1 iHeart: https://iheart.com/podcast/238399575/ In this episode: Colossians 1, Colossians 4, verse 12 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. We're still in our places. I'm still in Gulf Shores. Enjoying some fantastic October weather down here. And Jason is at Duck Call Room, which means that we still don't have Dad back. He's still recovering. So keep him in your prayers. I think they're going to start charging me to rent to keep doing. doing this. Well, I thought we were supposed to get a new studio at some point.

That's what I mean, I'm waiting for that. We're trying to, we're tired of piggybacking off of other people. Since Willie owns this place, I would say that is a high probability because the last time we did this podcast, he actually walked by, opened the door. And you know what he said to me? What's that? Get back to work. But before I could answer, he left.

I thought. Did he forget where it was and thought he was in an episode of Dut, was it, was the moment for you when he did that, was it a moment of a beautiful, glowing nostalgia, or was it post-traumatic stress syndrome? Which one did that induce?

I think he just gets a thrill on telling me what to do. And even though now he has zero power to do that, he just couldn't help it. Well, you know what? Here's why, though, Jase, because you had the power. If I remember childhood correctly, you had the power. You were the alpha. You were the mean one.

You were the one that, like, you had the, I remember you were the one that everybody was kind of, we were afraid of. Yeah. Yeah, that's true, but I was not mean. Well, I don't know if I'd say that. It's kind of like. Jay's, they have childhood trauma, Christmas things. going on the dashers. It's kind of like,

Sa, he all the time says I'm negative. And let me tell you what that means. That means I don't agree with him. So he's like, well, you're just being negative. I'm like,

no, I'm saying you're wrong. Yeah. And so, look, you know how tough it was down there. That was, you know,

my parents were trying to work out a way to put food on the table. And they kind of let the boys run wild. And so. We had very few rules. as young men we had to work it out and the only reason i earned that title is because i would you know come out on top in various fights and because it was always seemed like we all were the closest though that's why you fought the most yeah and you were a couple years older which is always a big deal

yeah it was kind of funny when we had uh edward grandma because he was the youngest in the grand family but then he finally got really big and strong and he wound up whipping his older brother, and that kind of changed the dynamic it sounded like. Well, yeah, I just, I just, I wasn't bluffy, you know. Yeah, but I think with y'all, it was, there's a, actually a guy I've been reading a bunch lately, whose name is Renee Gerard. I've mentioned it on the podcast for him. He has this concept that he came up with called the, oh man, I forget the escape goat mechanism.

The scapegoat mechanism. Well, you're getting deep early. This is deep, but I'm telling you, this is going to explain my childhood to you. And by the way, the scapegoat is a biblical notion. It's founded. Well, honestly, he got to the end of his philosophy. And at the end of it, he came to know Christ because he had a, you get cancer and he had this existential crisis where he thought he was going to die and he had this encounter with Christ.

And he's like, wait, all my philosophy that I've developed is pointing to the ultimate scapegoat, which was Christ. And that actually was the conclusion that he came to. But in the end, but I, The idea is that societies or people, like they inevitably have a conflict. Like you can't avoid conflict because we all mimic each other's desires. And so you have two kids and they want the same toy. And so you basically fight to the death to get the – humans are the only species that he says will consistently fight to the death. Typically, like, when two bucks go at it or two lions or whatever, they'll go.

they'll fight until one proves their dominance and then it's settled. Humans are different that will fight to the death. And so he said what happens in societies is at some point in the, in the, whatever the process, and I don't agree with everything he said, but this is kind of interesting. He said these societies break out, wars break out because we want the same thing and we can't both have it. So we fight. And somewhere along the way, two groups were fighting. and somehow they both got mad at another group,

and they focused on the other group, which became the scapegoat. And for a moment, they actually became friends, and they found that through finding the scapegoat, they could actually attain peace. And I think that's what was happening at y'all's house, is that y'all were fighting,

but then we would come in, and it was like, if you were visiting all the rage, the anger, the hostility, the pain, the, you guys had grown up. It was all directed at the cousins. And so we were literally the scapegoats for you guys. And so I'm not bitter about it.

No, you're just your trauma. This is turned into a trauma therapy. This is a sad. I've been to the therapist. All of it. I mean, look, I love you guys. I really, really love you both. It was, it was tough times.

It was tough times. My dad was, you know, a man's man early on, and he would do things that, like, not wear shoes for a couple of years. So I just think it was a tough environment that we were raised in, and we were tough and you had to be. So there were lots of fights. But I didn't know that it was, I really never paid you no mine, you know. I don't have any memory of you even being around. around when I was a kid. So, well, if I was, uh, being, which is why you get a horn blow from I 40 when he comes

through Black Mountains that that's interesting. That hurts even worse, man. I just don't have any. That hurts worse than the pain I endure that you didn't even register. It didn't even register in your mind, but it's seared in my, in my memory and my very inner being of. Yeah. Wow.

But the fact is so funny to me now shows you how, how warped. our view of our situation was because you just have to laugh about it. It's like, I mean, look, all I thought about was hunting, fishing, and wins the next domino game.

And you weren't, yeah, you weren't like a tormentor. You were just like, don't get in your way kind of guy. That was it. Don't, don't try to.

But now Willie was a little more around the torment. Willie was a torment. He was, he was probably the one. Honestly, he probably was receiving from you guys. He really, what,

what I think about it. Yeah, he, you know what, now that we're talking about this, it really was, Willie. He was very, he was, he tormented me. You know, one of my favorite things that Willie said when he came on our podcast on Unashamed the first time, we were talking about something. He talked about it being intimidating to come in there to be on the podcast. I mean, I just thought I got so tickled because I never think of it, you know, he's the boss. Yeah, I was surprised he said that.

I was surprised he said that. I was so. So I think that went back to that idea. It told me a lot about the way Willie. was because he would like we talked about it recently he would run away because he was you know being abused by us or whatever and but he'd only run away till supper and he would go fix up some place and he was going to live there and you know there's only so many places around the property around the six acres that he could find but he wouldn't he jace he'd make him a little

fort and oh yeah he's well it was just you know because willie like to make fun of other people and i never like that even i mean look i have a good time make jokes but i don't do it at the other people. Yeah. And he would do that and it just, I would just attack him for it. I would take up. He is the best at it. I mean, he is a now.

Look, it's no big deal because we are witty. We laugh at ourselves, but I never crossed that line. I was like, I make fun of what people do, but not just, you know, their anatomy or like, but my dad and Willie have always had a way. Yeah. If there's a way to offend somebody, they'll do it. Yeah, and well, he's so good at it. We were at an event one time and what me and Willie were together.

And I just thought about this. So we got a table at the front of this event. And the guy that had basically put on the whole thing, a very wealthy individual, Willie comes up. And the guy is wanting to talk to Willie. He's wanting to shake hands with him and meet him. And Willie walks up to the guys, starts talking to me. And I'm trying to introduce him to this guy because I know this is the guy that's put on the event.

And Willie, literally shakes his hand or puts his hand on his shoulder. He'll take a coffee with two creams. The guy's like, what? Yeah, I took a coffee. And he's just messing, but he's like, I'm like, how do you get away? I don't know. Somebody gets away with it. I mean, yeah, I know.

My whole family does. I mean. All of y'all are like that, yeah. So we were in, when I was caddying for Willie, he was in that big celebrity, like, golf tournament thing at Lake Tahoe. We were doing the practice round. And one of the people, I mean, this is like a big money man. And, of course, you know, they arrange it all so they can play with one of the people who were there who are well known. And so, you know, they're all like meeting Willie.

Well, one of them had a son there. And he was, I guess, a teenager. And Willie looked over and he said, hey, bro cheesy, would you go over and get that ball out? I just hit out of the edge of that pond. And I just got so tickled because I was like, he called him bro cheesy. And they just laughed. You know, he's like, Mr. Willie called me bro cheesy. He was not offended at all.

And I thought only Willie could get away with that. The question is, did he go get the ball out of the pond? He went and got the ball out of the box. That's the magic. I don't know. Well, see, that's why we fault. Because when he called me bro cheesy, I fired a spent B battery at his head. So I wish we would have, all of my regrets, which I'm fixed to have, I got breaking news.

I did something for the first time in 45 years last night. So before I tell you that, I was. And you're almost 55, so you would have been a nine-year-old. First time of 45 years. I did something last night I had not done in 45 years. And look, I actually did. didn't realize that people still did this. So, but before I tell you that, I was going to say,

I wish we had taken a picture of the room where we all stayed as kids, because every three or four inches, there was a hole in the wall. It was, it looked like a hailstorm had entered the inner room and gone sideways. And that was from the debris that we threw at each other three of the years. Nobody ever. I forgot about everybody was big about throwing stuff. When we had a trailer during the bar years from the movie, mom and dad bought a brand new trailer.

I don't know if you remember, Jason, because you were little. Oh, yeah. It was kind of yellow and white. And it was a dumpster fire. Yeah, it was brand new originally, but they're so cheap. And this was probably 1973 or so. And that every bed, every piece of furniture, that had legs.

Everything was on the floor, like broken down within the first year of that trailer. I mean, and it was just us, just roughhousing and wrestling and because Willie was little, and then Jace was probably about five. But it was crazy.

No, it was. But we used to do that. I mean, the last memory I had of that was somehow when my mom was a teenager, she twirled the, what he called it? Baton. Baton. Yeah. And somehow he had gotten hers, and he threw that thing at me,

and I just moved my head back, and it stuck through the door. That's how thin that door was. Just like six inches in front of my eyes. And I thought, man, what if that thing would have hit me? You know, I mean, it went through that door. And it was there for about a week until Miss Gay saw it. She threw a fit. You know, she's like, how did that, why did y'all try to open the door with that baton? I mean, nobody said what happened. She thought we were trying to somehow blushed open the door to get in it because it was locked. Well, they were so busy just trying to survive and run that bar.

They didn't realize that it was survival of the fittest going on out behind the bar. So last night, I actually went, of course, this won't, this podcast won't come out for a while, so I'm dating myself. But last night, for the first time in 45 years, I went trick or treating in the neighborhood. And I was shocked that there are people that still do this. Oh, gosh. It's a big deal. I really thought the, you remember back in the 70s when they had the razor blades and the fruits and the people getting sick? I thought that ended it.

That's how oblivious I have been of life, which usually during this time. a year, I'm getting ready for ducks. And I just didn't know people were still doing that. We took the little man. Yeah, the little man that we keep in his mom. I was actually the driver. And it felt like, you know, it felt weird.

I made an illustration that was kind of poor. Missy's like, that's terrible. I said, I feel like we're coming in and robbing a bank, you know, and I'm the getaway driver, you know, because I wouldn't walk up to the house because I didn't want to scare anybody. Were you doing it in a golf car? car. Yeah, and a golf cart.

I actually saw your two daughters. They were the first people I saw. Mm-hmm. And Alex was walking with her little family and friends. And then Anna had set up a station with Howard Carbo of all people. And so when I looked at him, I said, are you a trick or a treat? Because he had a Halloween helmet on with lights going on. He was a Randy macho man Savage hat.

He wears it every year. And he actually said, Chase, that offends me. And I said, I thought this was trick or treat. I'm trying to figure it out. He's like,

I'm obviously a treat. And I was like, well, it looks like a trick with your head lighting up. I didn't know. I thought you were actually doing the trick. So usually Jay's Bill Angley joins us, who's another old bachelor like Carbo.

And we were out there last year because we were home. And so we set up because the outside I just take the kids around the neighborhood like you guys did. And so we stay there so the neighborhood kids can get candy at her house. It's a big deal in our neighborhood. It's safe, which is really good. But Bill was there last year. This kid come up and he was wearing like a Captain America get up.

He had a lot of red, white and blue on. And Bill looks at him. He's about 10 years old. And he says, son, are you a Republican? And the little kids said, I don't. don't know. He said, well, ask your mother because you get two pieces of candy if the answer is yes. Oh, wow. So Bill is doing some political recruiting for the neighborhood. Oh, wow. He better be careful doing that around where I live. But we had 3,000. I bet we had

3,000 trick-or-treaters come out of the house last night. Because it's big in your area, right? Oh, it's about a four. Oh, yeah, there's a four street radius. It is a massive ordeal. My little story, we had, I saw about 50 people. walking around. But look, people there, they get on their porch. And so that's how it's not like back when I remembered it at 10, you knocked on the door and you didn't know whether this was going to be a good deal or not. You know, get off my property or.

But really, I remember back when we did this because we only had two houses, our house and my grandparents' house. So we just got dressed up, walked outside, and then knocked on our own door, got the candy, and they went to the grandparents, and she would give like an orange, which I always thought, what's the weirdest thing ever. Some dates, maybe. Yeah, that was my trick-or-treating memory, but it was actually fun. I got to meet the neighbors, you know, I got a little nervous because one of them there was a police car there.

And I was like, oh, that's trouble. I don't go there. Missy's like, why? I was like, well, we're technically driving a golf. cart to the neighborhood. I'm not sure that's legal. And she's like, babe, he's not going to give you a ticket, you know, because now I'm gun shy.

I'm just saying you've had a bad experience, Jay. But they were sitting there. And she's like, look, he's out there with a basket of can't. So we pulled in. I was like, well, let's get in good with the police, you know. We have four police officers in her neighborhood. And so actually I said, I just want to say, because he was like, you know, happy Halloween or whatever.

I said, I just want to say no laws were broken that I know. of in coming up here. And he said, hey, I'm off duty. I don't care what you do. I was like, oh, we're going to get along great then. That's just like, dad, no laws were broken. But it was a good way to get to meet a lot of neighbors, you know, and I actually thought it was a very positive experience. It was funny because last night was a little bit of a ride of passage. So Corby, who's my oldest grandson, he's in fifth grade now, which is your last year of elementary school because next year he'll be in middle school and so he didn't want to go with his brother and sister and mom and the little crew you saw he wanted to go with his buddies so last night

was the right of passage you know now it's like the pack so it was like yeah i've never been into halloween because of the kind of evil side of it so i've always been that guy i'm like look i'm not in the ghost goblin's darkness and but all the people they were friendly there was one they look like teenagers that kind of had the scary look because little man was like he looked at me like he was literally scared yeah and then this old dude there was some movie that i never watch but they you wear a mask i had recognized it from just seeing the previews it was like i can't remember what the movie was maybe sloo scream or something you know it was just like a weird mask it was terrifying that guy was looking at me and i literally saved his life because while he was staring

at me with this mask, he was fixed to walk into a mailbox. And so I said, hey, watch out for that mailbox. And about the time he turned around, he had just enough time because it was literally fixed to hit him right in the head because he was walking fast looking mean. I was like, he's teenagers. Well, you should have just let that one go. I think I'd have just waited to watch the crash. I thought, what would Jesus do?

He's dressed up scary. I saved his life. Maybe I'll get an in-row. You did the right thing. So anyway, that's my story. We did it. It was good. Little man, like he went as a fireman.

Well. But he's a fireman every day. He's into firefighting. So did you missy dress up too? Because y'all usually have to dress up for him. Oh, this is my costume. I looked exactly like I do right now. And people think, oh, you're doing the duck thing.

It is ironic, Jay said about this Halloween discussion that for two years at the peak of our little duck show, Duck Dynasty costumes, which were a beard, a bandana, a beanie hat, you know, whatever, were the number one costume for a couple of Halloweens in a row, or at least on the top five. So it is kind of ironic, Jay's that you, your look, because it was mostly huge Willie signed ad, were someone else's Halloween costume. They dressed up to look like you. Yeah, that's weird.

I don't know where to go with that, but I'm just saying it happened. Yeah. Well, Phil Fells tells us famous story. So if he was here, this is what he would tell. But we were on a duck hunting trip. We've told this before, but, and we went into a Walmart and getting supplies. Because we would just, we would go film three or four days on the road for our little videos, but we did them.

And we walked in and the greeter at Walmart said, we have a winner. And Phil's like, what are you, what are you talking about? It's like, well, it's the costume contest. She was dead serious. We had no costumes on. We had come from hunting. We had black face paint on, the beards, and we won. I don't know what we were representing.

We literally won a contest at Walmart and got a cake that would have been better three days before. Winner, winter, scary dinner. Yeah, because we had no idea it was Halloween. Nobody knew that. So that was a precursor to what would happen later. Is that before we go to get into our Bible study today?

Let me say this first. I do have a Halloween story. Okay, good. Let's hear it. A Halloween story, maybe I'm debated with that. I should tell this not, but did this really happen? I'll correct you if it is. Yeah, somebody brought a pinata.

Now, I mean, we're talking about like, there's so many people you can't even keep up with them. But there was a pinata left in the front of our yard. And at the end of the night, the kids get around it, and they start beating the pinata with whatever sticks they can find to bust it open. And they're just whacking this pinata. And it cracks open.

And then the kid, we didn't see, I saw them hitting it, but I didn't realize everything that had happened until they gather the candy and other things and they go back to their parents to put the candy in their buckets. And inside of this piñata, I'm not kidding you, were bottles of liquor, the little bottles of liquor and condoms. And condoms? Yeah. In the pinata.

And in the pinata. And I thought they were kidding because they came up to me and said, hey, Zach, was that your pinata? And they were like telling me what was in there. Oh, yeah. I'm just making jokes. like and everyone's looking at me like are y'all serious was that really and they pulled it up they said yeah look at looking this is what this is what our kids came back with so there's something to be said for having the Halloween you know in a controlled environment controlled environment

so we're going to have security patrols next year and see that's such a shame this is what we got just what we got to back in the 70s you just get some weird old people and ruin something that's fun well because it's In the, well, in the, I think in the original idea, it was kind of based on a pagan ritual, which has been among the religious world, you know, which is why I've never really been into Halloween. I mean, I was just like, yeah. But I think if you dress up and you meet the neighbors and you give the kids some candy and make it, you know, more of a fall festival. It's kind of like what Sadie says, one time we were talking about TikTok, and she said, well, I've just decided I want to try to own that space. for God.

Yeah. And I thought, well, exactly. So that's kind of what you're talking about doing. Let's take something

that should be fun for kids and make it fun for kids. Well, it's an opportunity to, you know, you're also supposed to love your neighbor

and they're all out on the porch. So, I mean, I met a lot of people last night that I had never met before. Well, we ended, our night,

and this has become a tradition in the front yard. We end the night with worship. Yeah. And our neighbors come around and different people we know

and love friends will come around. We probably had 150 people in the front yard just worshipping for about 20 minutes and that's kind of like how we seal the night. So I think one year a few years ago, didn't y'all end it with the Max and the garage band. We're going to have a little concert. Oh, no, that wasn't Halloween. But that went over. That was a dumpster fire there. That was during COVID. Layland and Max threw up right in the center of cut dead center of the quarantine. They're like with that we want to do a concert, build a backstage in

they have their friends come in and play. And so we had about 100 high school kids in the yard. They were playing music. And, of course, the online, there's a whole lot of drama. On Facebook with our town, it's hilarious. It's like a message board. And everyone's like, who's playing a concert in the middle of a blankety-blank pandemic? And the cops show up.

And I mean, and the guy looks at me. He's like, is just like, are we breaking the law? all here's, man, I don't want to be like a bad dude. But I mean, do you care to just shut it down? I don't want to create controversies. I was like, you got two more songs. And so they played that they played it out. But yeah, we had a concert right in the middle of the pandemic.

So Zach, before we go to the Bible study, you've got a new podcast you're launching. And Jason, apparently, Zach is having to dumb it down so much with us that he needs another. platform to be able to go into his deeper thoughts. The deeper, yeah, I was trying to call it deep words, but our big words or something like that. What is it going to go? Zach's not dumbing it down now. We're dumbing it down for him.

Yeah, no, it is a little, yeah, we're getting into a little more of the philosophy stuff, but it's called Not Yet Now, and it really is, I mean, we, in a lot of what we talk about in this podcast, but it's even the title, Not Yet Now, a lot, it's a focus on, what does it look like life in the kingdom. So we'll be posting these every Tuesday, which is, so if you're listening and you're like, well, we don't have an unashamed podcast on Tuesday. Well, we all have this one on Tuesday for those of you who want to kind of continue in the discussion. So you could go anywhere, podcasts or heard.

By the way, honestly, we're going to be launching it on Tuesday. Let me get the right. Are you going to have an interpreter? No, that's what I'm saying. This is the warning. If you're coming, then you're saying, I'm ready. I'm not going to, but we're not going to make any judgments on what kind of languages you use. It's a free space, no judgment zone.

Say space. It'll be November 19th is when we'll launch it. Anywhere podcasts are heard, not yet now. You can also probably look it up by name or our YouTube channel is going to be at Dasher Zach. But you've got to be careful with YouTube because I got some other YouTube stuff when I ran for office that's out there. But at Dash or Zach will be the page that it'll be on. but um jace i'm going to have to have you on man because i want to because we're we're going to get we're going to get i want people to see the

jace is a lot deeper than he he puts on sometimes he's actually very very very very very intelligent so i'll bring me in when it's time to clean it up okay i will i'll bring you in jays that's just what you need another podcast to do yeah well we're going to get into some the more like it's a little more of a slower pace so that because there's some stuff like about politics and culture that I'll probably dive into a little bit more current events. But yeah, but if you guys go and go ahead and subscribe to the, it helps us get the algorithm up there so we get exposure and get this. I think it's going to be really helpful podcast.

Really, it's just an extension of kind of the ministry that we're doing here in North Carolina. And so I would say that would be a prerequisite for going to your podcast. if you know what the word algorithm means, then come join. Come talk to Zach. Not yet now. If you want to be able to use the word eschatology and without fear of judgment or ridicule, we have a place for you. It's actually kind of a sidelike title because, you know, when Saiz says, no, no, he means yes.

Yeah. And when he says, yeah, no, no, he means no. Yeah. Well, I got news for you, the kingdom is here. That's the thing. But it is to come as well. You will get new bodies at some point, which will then make you able to live eternally. Yes.

So, but you have the spirit. So there you go. I think it's a good topic. Because as we learned from back in Colossus 1, Jesus, Jesus, is the first born of creation, but he's also the first born from the dead. Yeah, the prototype. Just think about that. There's more to come.

If you have that power, you're going to be proud because I'm preaching Sunday, and I decided to use that text because we're doing a series, which is an acrostic from recovery, which, Zach, you appreciate acrostics, because your mom was the queen of acrostics. Tell me what that is. is. So that's when you take like a word and you, like in this case, we're taking the word recovery and then you do eight thoughts that come from the word recovery.

They spell out the word recovery. Oh, REC. Right. Like respect. You're going to read. I call that Aretha Franklin. Well, see, that's how Jay's can break it down. Yeah, that's good.

And so mine is, so it's interesting because we did this series 20 years ago. when we launched our celebrate recovery. Mack Owen, who's going to be on the podcast in a few weeks, Mac wanted to start this new thing that he had found out about. And so Mike and I were all in. And so we had just, Mike had just went to work for us at the church. And so we did this recovery series.

And so I kind of built the lessons out of the Beatitudes is where the Saddleback does it for for Celebrate Recovery. And so this Sunday, I'm up on the second, principle, which is the E, and here's what the principle is, earnestly believe that God exists, that I matter to him, and that he has the power to help me recover. So when they're doing their step studies, that goes along with a couple of the beatitudes. And so that's my lesson. And as soon as I read it, it's interesting because I look back at my notes.

I'm a very good note taker and keeper. And so in that recovery series that I did 20 years ago, I still have the notes from all the servants. And there was some pretty good stuff in there. And the ironic thing was because of my schedule, this time I had the two E's, this one and then the E at the end of the series. And there were two lessons that I didn't put together in the first series and had no notes for. You want to guess so if they were? E's.

The two E's. And so I had to build something totally new, which is probably a good thing. And so we were in this study and I thought, man, earnestly believed that God exists. what better passage is there in the entire Bible of why we believe in Jesus than Colossus 1 15 through 23? Oh, I mean. What's the other E? Ernest and everybody?

I can't remember. If you've already forgotten it, Al, that may be. Well, yeah, but that's like six weeks away. Oh, I see. I got a lot to do for it. You're going to come up with a neat. See, this is why I stay away from this kind of stuff, you know, because then I've got to think of a word it starts with

it. It's there. I just, I can't remember right now what it was. Oh, it has something to do with relationships. It's the, in the, for the Celebrate Recovery crowd, it's the men's point where you're asking forgiveness for hurting people.

Well, what about Colossians 129 when he says he wants to present everyone fully mature in Christ? This is for everybody. Everybody. It is. Exactly. There's your point, done.

There you go. So you've already happened, Jay. I will say this, Jay. I'll give you one little sneak peek. So, because I've got to think about this, what is the largest celebrate recovery meeting that's going on right now? Like in the whole thing? Yep.

Jesus in the presence of God? Ooh, that's pretty. You're close. It's from Luke 15. It's in heaven. because every time a sinner comes to repentance, there is celebration and rejoicing in heaven by thousands and thousands of angels in assembly, according to Hebrews 12 and also Luke 15. So the largest celebrate recovery meeting that happens is every time someone comes to repentance because someone has found Christ. It's the chip nights. The biggest chip night.

The biggest chip night in eternity happens. I was also reminded of that verse that says we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses that are cheering us on. Hebrews 12-1. I was thinking of Pelotians 12. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight without blemish and free from accusation. think Hebrews he went into the presence of God on our behalf to make the presence of God ready for us to live which is the not yet part of Zach's podcast title

because they did the same thing in the Jewish temple they had to do these sacrifices which goes back to the escape goat they actually just put the sins on the goat and they didn't kill him. They just send him out to the wilderness. Right. He carried the sins away from the camp. And they did it every year. And so it's a constant reminder that

your sin doesn't really go away. It just is still out there. Well, that's the having to be dealt with. It's kind of like the true Halloween. You take the sins and the evil presence and you get it way away from you out in the wilderness.

That's right. But all those things, you know, they were all think about if you live if you live before christ then everything was about like this coming of something but if you live after christ which we where we live then it's about something that came and something that's coming so that the title came out of that framework but i think it's not yet now but it's what we're doing it's what we talk about every every day in this podcast and there is a tension in that. I recognize that tension. I think that the writer of Colossians, Paul, also recognize that tension. But if you get off on one side of that or the other, if you're

only about what's to come, then you miss the kingdom that's here. But at the same time, if you're only about the kingdom that's here, then you're missing out on what's to come. And when you go through periods of life that are very, very difficult, which we all do, How do you deal with that? You know what I mean? But I think that's why Jesus came in and plants himself at the dead center of all of it. They accomplishes it, but also there's more to come at the end. And so the sin portion of it and the scapegoat portion of it, when he did it, he did it once and for all.

That's what the Hebrew writer says. It is once and for all, you don't have to continue to go back year after year. to shed the blood of goats and bulls, like all that's coming to it. And by the way, nobody does that anymore either, right? I mean, there's no more temple,

no more sacrifice, none of that. Like, that, that whole system is gone. And it ended in 70 AD, just a few, about 30 years after,

30, 40 years after Christ, or what is that, 37 years after Christ died that was resurrected? Yeah. And that makes the point that, but we've been making that some people are waiting around to build another temple to start it all back up again. And we're like, no need. Yeah.

Well, I think it's what happens is if you on this whole, like when you, when you get out of whack on this, it's, it's not that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. So grind it out and wait for the rapture and just cross your fingers. That's not the message of Jesus. But it's also not, man, boys, this is utopia right here. We're in utopia. It is a tension that you live in, but it is a reality that's here that we get to participate in right now. And I think the caveat to that and what really sets it up for me to understand it is the reason why that's possible is because you have to remove in your mind and your framework. You have to understand that the prize is not a destination.

The prize is not a place that we're going to called heaven. That's not the prize. The prize is not a description of the quantity of how we live, meaning eternal life is not about a quantity of life only. It's more about a quality of life, and it's a life that's in Christ, which is an invitation to participate in the triune nature of God to partake of his divine nature. The prize is him. The prize is an actual person, or three persons. I was just going to say that. I've used this illustration many times.

It's like wherever I go with my wife, that's more important than where we're going. I mean, just think we're going to make the most of it. I mean, she's my partner, my best friend. So it's like, and she really lives that out. It's like, hey, you want to take a trip? And she's like, yeah. You don't even know what we're doing. She doesn't care.

The journey. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Because if you go like, if you think about like a, like if you go off for a weekend and I was just talking to Jill about this today about our vacation, we're planning. I was like, honestly, Jill, I said, if we just go and get a house and just go out to eat with a family or now cook meals just to be together. I mean, but think about we'll pay to do that. But it's the same thing I'm doing here, right? It's just intentional.

What's the point of it? It's who you're with. That's a great analogy. Well, and it's also, it captures the thought that we were having in this text that we're kind of wrapping up, Colossians 124 through 25. The reason that the word, J, is you're contending or struggling, that Paul explained to the Colossian Church, who he did not know personally, but he was invested in heavily to see them succeed for the gospel. And I think that's part of that idea of paying forward what God has done for you. to then have it go, your legacy is,

I want other people to take that torch and carry it. And, you know, I never thought about legacy as a young guy, but now that I'm about to be 60 years old, last week, this series I was mentioning, we started it with two young guys.

One of them is Rucker, who you guys have seen on the podcast before, and the other guys, Derek, who had never spoken on Sunday morning at our church before. But they're the two leaders of our Celebrate Recovery. and they're the fourth generation leadership. And these are people that we help lead to Christ,

disciples, and now they're taking it. And so when I was watching their sermon this week, because they had the R, which is realize that I'm not God, I'm powerless. Who was given the sermon? This was Brian Rucker and Derek McQueen, who are the co-leaders now for Settlement Recovery. And as part of this series,

we're doing something we did 20 years ago. But I was just, I felt when I was watching it, I mean, I was just teary because I thought, man, to get to see guys that you trained, get it and get relationship and understand the power of Jesus and what gets to that moment and watch them. Now, they're going to be doing the series, you know, as we go forward. They're going to be the ones that are taking the mantle and going with it. So I wouldn't have appreciated it, you know, 20 years ago. But now that I'm 60 and you start seeing the people you train that take ministry and impact people. and you're like this is what it's all about because once I cross over,

it'll be who I've impacted with the gospel. Oh, by the way, he's a former gangbanger from a broken family that used to, you know, participate in drive-by shootings and what happens. There's that little nugget. Well, I'm just saying. He was in a little thing called a gang. Yeah, but I was actually on the podcast. But I'm glad you brought this up because one thing I didn't bring up last time

when I was talking about that contending, is that word is used again in a fantastic way. I was going to save it for when we get there, but now that we brought it up, I feel like I should. So, I mean, Paul didn't even know these people. They had learned it from Apophis. You remember Colossians 1?

Yep. In verse 7, he's like, this gospel, you know, came to you and you have faith, hope, and love, and you learned it from Apophis, our dear fellow servant, who is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf and who also told us of your love and the spirit. Well, when he gets to chapter 4 and verse 12,

he brings up Apaphras again, and he says, Apaphras, who is one of you? Because Paul had trained him, sent him out, he goes to Colise, he shares the gospel, it explodes, they face resistance like everyone does who puts their faith in Christ. so now they're getting a little wobbly and he says but listen to what he says

he said apaphras who is one of you and a servant of Christ Jesus sends greetings he is always wrestling in prayer well you know what that word for wrestling is contending the same one in Colossians 2 when he's speaking of himself of saying I'm contending for you

but I thought what a picture you know when you think it made me analyze my prayer life and realize how weak it is. Because I never looked at it as a wrestle match. You know, we all got into wrestling, but this is more of a realistic. When you think of wrestling, I mean, this is what me and Willie did as a kid.

Well, we wasn't faking. You know what I mean? It was a wrestle. It was about survival. But I thought, what a picture of that when someone is wrestling in prayer for other people. Yeah. It's the intensity is off the charts.

But look what he says. He's wrestling in prayer for what reason. He has always resting in prayer for you that you may stand firm in the will of God, mature, and fully assured, which is what I keep bringing up. A lot of this is about growing in Christ. I mean, you start off a little plant. You're born again. And you're real vulnerable at first because the resistance.

is coming from the evil one, the evil presence, just circumstances, because there are two forces in this world. And even though we have the king of kings, it is difficult as you go and go through difficulty, and he's asking you to serve and to perhaps suffer. And the other leg of that is when you're sharing Jesus, you're going to face resistance. And it's no different in our culture than any other. I mean, you're fixed to have people persecute you. It's just going to happen.

But that's part of the growth process and the maturity. And you know the end of that, think of the parable of the sewer. You know, fruit will come from that struggle. But I just thought that that was when you start looking, analyzing deep into this book, how these little nuggets on how they're passion about each other in Christ and getting them to grow and mature. toward the ultimate relationship like Zach described. But I'm glad you brought up prayer again too because we keep running into that

and all these books were studied and we've talked about it before. It's not because you'll hear people say, well, I wish I could do more, but I will pray. And it's like, well, that's the starting, that's the most important thing. Because when you pray, you're communicating with the deity. And that verse in Romans 8 always gets me with the, the Holy Spirit is communicating in language you don't even get, but that the father and the son hear your heart. So there's something that happens there at a supernatural level in prayer.

That is a huge impact. Yeah, just think like when you go work out. I mean, you know, I'll work out occasionally. And when I come out, I don't have to tell Missy that I just worked out. I'm sweaty. I'm exhausted. I'm sucking wind, you know. I'm just like,

but if there's things I want to do in life and I realize the older I get I got to do it. But if I came out looking like that and she's like, what are you been doing? I was like, I've been praying. You know, I think that's the visual image you should get. It should be more intense than what we're doing is my point. And when somebody's doing that for other people, that's just very inspiring. It is. Yeah, because we want to avoid that pain and want to avoid that stress, that struggle.

When you were talking, though, about that, I was thinking about something somebody told me last night. He's one of my friends here is going through a hard time. He's lost a bunch of his stuff in his shop during the storm and then just found out his dad got diagnosed with a terminal illness all within like a three-week period. And he came out of the house and where we were, I was cooking a big jambalaya. And I was explaining them what that was and how good it was going to be. And he was telling me his story. I just, let me just pray with you. And I just prayed over him.

And one of the things he said, though, he said, you know, I keep thinking about this seed. There's these certain seeds that are all, they only germinate in forest fires. And then the fire happens. He said, but these beautiful trees and plants, but they only come forth after an intense fire. And he said, I just, I've just been sitting in that that praying that God, like, germinate something in this fire of my life that's going to be beautiful. And I thought, man, what a mature way of seeing it. But we want to, we, we want to escape those fires and those storms alive.

And we don't want to, we don't want to wrestle because we like the modern convenience that we enjoy and comfort. But man, but I think the prayer, the kind of prayer you're talking about is a prayer that says, not, I mean, I don't want to go in it, but I also like, God, if you want me to go through this, help me, like sustain me through it, and then give me an imagination for what you're going to do out of it. No, that's it. That's what's called being all in, so, and unashamed. So we're out of time. We'll pick it up here next time and get back to our text on Ashame. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes.

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