Unashamed with the Robertson Family - Ep 998 | The Supreme Court Loophole That Allows Jesus Back in Schools TODAY!

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Jase gives a rousing Jesus presentation to grade-school and college students. Joel Penton, founder and CEO of LifeWise Academy, a nonprofit that provides Bible education to public-school students during school hours, offers a plan to get Jesus back in schools. Since Christian values were removed from schools, generations have progressively suffered from higher rates of suicide, depression, and anxiety, and the guys ponder the ramifications of such a devastating decision. In this episode: Colossians 2, verses 15-19; John 19, verses 7-8; John 19 verses 12-13 -- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I am unashamed. What about you? Welcome back to Unashamed. Welcome back. You sound like you're in a tunnel, Al. I'm so, I apologize. I'll run off the bat. We have literally had duct tape and baling wire to get me on air today coming from the Southern Lair. My computer is having to update some something. Maddie's having to talk me through it. Lisa's here. It's just a disaster.

But we're here. We're going to do our best to try to get you unashamed today. Zach, are you with us? Can I hear you? I'm here. I'm here, ready to go. Jase seems like he's comfortable. I'm as comfortable as I've ever been.

I actually took a siesta before we began. I had a long weekend. So did I. Where did you go, Josh? You know what? I had... An event in my hometown or right next to it. You know, we technically live in West Monroe.

But showed up on my Instagram feed as a promotion side. I was going to come, but it was an 11-hour drive, so I couldn't make it. You had a promotion show up on your Instagram feed. I don't know what all that means. But here's what I did. I went to ULM Friday night, and I actually spoke to the football team. And they won. Wrong.

They lost. Oh, sorry. So for the next day... I was trying nobody would have ever known, except for our local. Well, but for the next day, I was the honorary captain, which I didn't know what that meant.

And so I get into the locker room because it was 11 a.m. kickoff time. And I heard the two-minute speech before we ran out into the tunnel. It was the most intense speech I've ever heard. I literally was looking around for some pads in that moment. I thought,

you were ready to go? Let's go. Yeah. So it wasn't because they didn't have an intense speech before they ran out because I'm going to tell you, it would think Gladiator, not Gladiator, Braveheart. Yeah. When we're fixed. Yeah.

It was one of though, we're going to war every snap, leave nothing behind. I mean, wow. You need to talk to your buddy. You just baptized and see if you can't get maybe in a couple plays for the 49ers. You're getting into the football game now, Jace. You know what? I actually talked to him. I've talked to him every day since his born-again experience,

and it's been fascinating. 99% of it has been, now I'm reading over here in this. What does this mean? I mean, I've just had questions fired at me, which has been good. But yesterday was, which I don't know when this will be out, but yesterday was Sunday for us. And it's the first time I didn't talk to him because he was actually playing football. And so after the game, I was like, what a game. It's the most I've ever watched the offensive line in my life.

And it was really interesting. And he immediately, he was like, hey, win or lose, give glory to God. I mean, he's fired up. So then Saturday, so look, we do the speech, we go out there, I did my job. I had to flip the coin. You know, I'm out there, the team, you know, they have the captains. I'm yacking it up with the referees and the umpires. I mean, this is after the Star Spangled Banner.

I mean, it was just, you got to remember something. It is raining sideways. I mean, I don't mean just raining. It is boring. So I had full slicker Topped about them Cammo Of course Al

Okay And I was like Look I'm going around on the sidelines I mean this is duck weather We're hunting You know I mean I'm just Grunting and so I Flip the coin

The opposing team Called it tails And it was heads And for some reason I like went Yes I did my job I mean, I come to the sideline.

It was like, I did my job. Let's go. And so then the head coach says, you stay here. Get behind the white line, but you can stay here. Because usually when you're a guest, I've gone to many LSU games. You don't get like within the team behind the white line. You're off to the side behind the white line. And so I was like, all right, I'm not leaving.

Which turned out to be a really cool experience. And so that's where I watch the game from. You're in the bowels of the defense comes off. They sit on the bench. Of course, they had tents because it was raining so hard. So you look up and the next thing you know, because it's raining sideways, and we're down 28 nothing at a half.

And does it seem like we're down 28? It was one of them games where it's raining so bad. Just things happen. You know, we fumbled the ball. They came up with a trick. play and they scored. Then we tried a fake punt because you can't throw the ball. I mean, it is raining sideways. And just everything that could have gone wrong went wrong. So after that first speech I heard, I thought, what is this speech going to be like at halftime? I think I'll pass.

I didn't even go down there. I wouldn't want to come back because I thought if that was when he was excited what's going to happen when he's angry so i didn't want to know but they came back out and uh and we got the kickoff drove down and scored then stopped him through and out then got to punt and drove down and scored again that's 2814 and the whole vibe has changed and so now i'll go back to what happened Friday night in the speech because i thought what do you tell a bunch of football players and i'd actually talked to the coach before because he was grilling me like You asked me to speak. He's like, they hear me all the time, you know, motivate them.

And so then he was like quizzing me about what I was going to talk about. And it was like, everything was football related. I was like, I don't know anything about football. I'm not going to talk about football. He was like, what? I was like, I'm talking about life. I was like, you know, we got to build them from the inside out. Let's talk about character, you know.

And so what I did in the speech is I said, I want to talk to you all about the greatest. come back ever and i i just hesitated because we're in a little banquet hall they're eating supper because what i didn't realize is even though they're at home all the starters or they call them the travel team whoever goes on the travel squad not the entire team they go stay in a hotel even though they're at home together because obviously for 11 a.m. start they want to make sure everybody's in bed by nine. So it was kind of awkward, you know, we're in the banquet and there's no podium.

I mean, I just stood up. And I said, I want to talk to you about the greatest comeback ever. And so I did a, you know, like a few things just to kind of build the drama, you know, talking about sports. I mean, what could be the greatest comeback here? Because I know most of these people have no idea what I'm fixed to say. Do you all know what I'm fixed to say? The greatest comeback ever?

Yeah. I would say it got to be something about the resurrection. Well, hallelujah. We got that right because if you had got that wrong. No, it was. It meant when the bills were down, wasn't it the bills or they were up? 35 to 35 to 3. You know, yeah, see, that's where their minds were going.

But I was like, I kind of went through, you know, God coming to earth, what he did, just off the top of my head, you know, he fought in justice and he healed the sick. and showed he had the power to right wrongs and everything can be all right. We just went down that journey, you know, and he kept meeting opposition, and he kept meeting resistance, even from religious people.

And he just kept going, he wound up in front of the Roman authorities. And they're like, okay, that's it. We're fixed to kill you. And they did. And three days later, we experienced the, greatest comeback ever and we're still talking about it 2,000 years later in Monroe, Louisiana

at ULM. So it was just crickets. I tell you that story. Of course, then I tied that in to the new creation that you can experience that and technically you can become part of that comeback in your own life called a new creation. I thought his packets pretty well. So I tell you that story because it's 2814, and now all of a sudden people have stopped ignoring me

because I've been positive the whole time. He was 28, no, I'm like, here we go, let's go, never say die. But I didn't want to bring up the greatest comeback ever. And that defensive end after they stopped them, the next time after we scored three and out, he come off the field and he said, the greatest comeback ever. And I thought, yes, because even if we don't come back, he has that in his brain about Jesus.

And, of course, the next play we threw an interception, and that pretty well ended that comeback. However, the analogy blew up at that point. No, it really didn't. I'm saying things happen. Difficulty is going to come your way. I talked to the team about the greatest comeback ever, and then I talked about transformation. And I talked about maturity. And I'm like, this is not easy.

That's way more important. And when I said that about the greatest comeback ever, I said, now you may think, what does that have to do with football? And I said, not much. But I'll tell you this. Does the actual football have a lot to do with what's happening in football? Crickets. They're like, what?

What did he say? I was like, this is not about football. This is about a group of men coming together. to fight as one. A football is involved, but you're playing another group of men who are trying to come together and fighting as one.

It does involve the football. It is as close to a fight as you can get, and sometimes it boils over into a fight. We're at Barris football game. He had a football game on Saturday because all the schedules are messed up here in western North Carolina because of the storm. So they had a game,

and when I tell you, they lost in the last two seconds of the game. I mean, it was down the last minute. And they lost. And then during the transition period where they shake the hands, a real fight breaks out. So we got to witness a high school football brawl on Saturday. So sometimes it can boil over into an actual fight. But they probably could have heard, I might need to bring you up here, Jace, to give that same lesson to these young high school.

school boys they may they may need to hear that well i mean it may not mean you're going to win obviously i mean i got the coin toss right and i got the resurrection right but we still lost however i'm like you know it it kind of goes to your defining winning so and it's it's not going to happen to go back to who i'm now effectively calling old big one uh the right tackle colton It's like winner, I mean, they won, and he was like, win or lose. Lord of God, here we go. I mean, I'm like, okay, yeah. But there's a difference in someone's perspective once they become a new creation.

Jay's, you are a spiritual new rotney. That's what you are. You're the old gipper. You're the one that gets them fired up, but all about spiritual matters. And you're using football as your launch pad. I like it. I think you could do this across the fruited plains. This could be your new thing.

It may have legs. It may have legs. So what's crazy, so we did that, which I'd had a bad sinus infection. So I figured out one of the worst things you can go do is stand in the pouring down rain for four hours. Yeah, not a good combo. But we did, I actually did a pro move and brought a wardrobe change, and I brought two slickers. and so at halftime because, you know, I went out,

they introduced me. Look, they treated me fantastically. I mean, they introduced me to the crowd. And it was a bigger crowd that I would have expected in a monsoon. And they gave our podcast publicity. And they were actually, this was on TV somewhere. Not that I noticed it. Oh, okay.

Did you see Jason get out there? Oh, I looked like a wet, rat. You miss me, yeah, I didn't miss you. When I plugged it, it was in the second half by the time I found so they were coming back. But then, so last night, the next night,

I'm back at ULM, and I spoke at it was called Field of Faith and it was all the FCA groups college and high school in North Louisiana gathered up on the same field, which I thought was ironic because the day before

they were playing football. and the next day you had people who are in athletics who have voluntarily decided to get together, have Bible studies, share Jesus amongst the public schools, you know, on their own time. So, and it was good. They had three or four testimonies. We did a little worship, and I spoke, you know, maybe 20 minutes. And I actually did something I've never done. Missy came in from Nashville, so she was with me last night.

Because you know how you don't know what the setting's going to be? And I usually just have one kind of speech go through how all this happened. But it hit me two minutes before I was fixed to speak. I thought, all these people know me. We're in North Louisiana. We're in my hometown. Yeah. So I actually just...

You got to be careful. The Bible says no man's a prop in this own hometown. So you don't think about that before you got up there. That exact thought went through my head. So I thought, you know, I think I'm going to do the greatest comeback line. So I did that, resurrection. And then I actually just launched into answering the question why Jesus, I went chapter by chapter the entire book of John.

And when I got to about eight or nine, I was thinking, are you going to actually be able to remember the theme of every chapter of the book of John? Why are you doing this? But you know what? When I said the next chapter, boom, it just hit me. I went all the way 21 chapters. I'm laughing so hard, Judge, because I've been there so many times where I'm speaking, but in my mind I'm talking to myself as my

yeah you got two conversations going on I've done it many times well here's the funny thing out there were no note so it was like and there's no retreat and I thought it you know I thought it went good because I you know the reason I did that is I always tell people at the end my biggest invitation is go home

read the book of John ask yourself who is this Jesus and make him your Lord. But I mean, do this not because you're feeling guilty or you're scared you're going to go to hell or your parents want you to or just look at Jesus. He draws all men to himself, John 12. And I just thought, well, why not just go through the book of John and do it?

How did they respond? Oh, fantastic. I told Missy, I was like, I feel like, It's all like young students here. Well, it was a lot of college age, a lot of high schools, some junior high. And so we just decided to stay, which is usually, you know, when you go to a event, which resulted in a lot of pictures and all. But I did something different last night.

So, because they, once the damn broke on that after it was over, I thought, I think I'd rather have Jesus conversations than take pictures. So everybody came up. can we take a picture and I was like are you fired up for Jesus they were like yeah I was like that's the price of the picture and so they look you know what it actually broke the ice that little funny conversation and I'm way more excited about what's fixed to happen in this area after those conversations with young people who are ready to go on offense that was kind of a theme that I did after the book of John, that we're going to have the spread offense going forward,

and we're not going to worry too much about defense at this stage. I was like, the churches can handle that because they're trying to get you to not do stuff. Don't do this, don't do that. I was like, I'm presenting the offense. Let's go declare Jesus. There will be resistance. Well, that's the, that's the Colossians text we're in. you know, it's not the defense.

It's an offense found in Christ. Exactly. It's crazy. That's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah. So there's your segue to Colossians, Al. Al, I just made the greatest segue ever. Yeah, that's pretty good.

Zach, you're the segue king. I was actually on a college campus myself. I was at Kentucky Christian University, Jason, when you were at our local university at ULM. And so it is kind of a right. Kentucky University, Kentucky Christian University. Although I did fly into Lexington, so I did go through Kentucky University of Kentucky land, but I went up the road about an hour and a half to Kentucky Christian University, the Knights. And I had a great time with those guys.

Look, and I had asked them, you know, I always ask people about how many of you ever watched Duck Dynasty? And, of course, you know, it's probably 95% of the hands go up. But this time, I asked them that, but I also said, how many of you? have ever listened to an episode of the Unashamed podcast. And I would say half the audience out of, you know, I don't know, seven or eight hundred people raise their hand. So. Well, look at that.

And that goes. What was your line after that, Al? I was like, are you unashamed for Jesus? Let me hear anybody in here is unashamed? I'm going to give you my line. You know what? I've done that same thing. I was like, how many have y'all watch the Unashame or listen to Unashamed

podcast? And so people raise their hand. Well, then I say, what's wrong with the rest of you people? They always laugh. You got to publicly shame him, Al. That's the difference in me and James right there. He went for the public shaming. I went for the cheap applause.

I like the public shaming. It's kind of one of those things. I'm kidding, but not really. You know, one of those deals. Well, you know, last night, some of those kids come, the younger ones, I bet I'd say at least half a dozen said, hey, I just started watching your show. And so I thought they were talking about my treasure hunting. I was like, hey, we found a lot of good.

treasure they were like we'd show you're talking about they were like no duck dynasty and uh it hit me that these people are recycling it's like coming back yeah coming back they won't stop watching the show well it's one of those shows you can get out you can get like a you can do like a binge you know what i mean you just kind of get into a a vortex a duck dynasty vortex well i wouldn't know but you've never watched it well i like to binge the book of john Or Colossians recently, right? Yeah, or Colossian. But what I'm saying is, I mean, Jesus, he's telling the people at Colossay, look at Jesus.

Well, John is revealing Jesus in human form, God in human form, Jesus. I mean, the maturity aspect is Jesus, getting to know him better. Yeah, because you read that 16 through 19, which is what we left the last podcast. Let me read it real quick. I would let Al read it, but he sounds like he's in a tin can. Well, before you do, I wanted to talk about 15. We never talked about 15. Oh, I'll read that.

And then. Yeah, because I want to, I'm going to geared up for 15 because I think it's really good. All right. So 15 is this, and I'm reading from the ESV version, he disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame by triumphing over them and him. By the cross? That's not what my answer. You have the N.I.V.

Really? It don't have by the cross. Mine says the same thing yours says, having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them. By the cross. By the cross. Yours don't have that in there? No, but I grew up on the NIV.

No, well, I don't think it matters. Oh, I want to make a point here because I noticed something in my dissertation of John that, I mean, we studied John, and I don't even know how I missed this. So in John 18, you know, after his prayer, when he's arrested, because I thought about that. here's Rome who can we say were probably the most famous kingdom when it came to killing people as far as the matters. They were pretty brutal. Pretty brutal. I don't know about the all time, but that's why I win rumors.

You can at least put them in the top five for sure. All right, let's put them in the top five in a negative count. But just think about this, even when there were rumors that they might steal the body, they wanted to make sure that if there's a problem, they wanted to make a public spectacle out of crossing them, which is why they had a cross. It was more about the show of it all. They're sending a terroristic type message.

You mess with us. Here's what happened. It's a public display. don't cross the line or you're hanging on the cross. Would you all agree with that? Yeah, I would. So before you even get there, though, what I find fascinating in John 18,

it says, I want to read this. When he had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples, crossed the Kidron Valley on the other side. There was an olive grove, and he and his disciples went into it. Now, Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place because Jesus had often met there with his disciples.

So Judas came to the grove guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns, and weapons. So now it kind of gives you a visual. I mean, they're coming. And so then Jesus, knowing what was fixed to happen to him, went out and asked them, who is it you want so then it gets kind of weird here till he knew what's fixed to happen but he asked them like typical Jesus ask a question who is it you want

Jesus of Nazareth they said now then he says this which is a form of his nickname because he says I am he Jesus said and Judas the traitor was standing there with him when Jesus said, I am he, the soldiers drew back and fell to the ground. Why have I not noticed that before?

Now, let's keep reading. Again, he asked them, who is it you want? So I ask him again. So something happened here. And then he says again, who is it you want? and they said, Jesus of Nazareth. So it's a deja vu here. Then he says, I told you that I am he.

So this time he adds this, if you were looking for me, then let these men go. And then this happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled. I have not lost one of those you gave me. Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it struck the high priest's servant cutting off his right here

Jesus said put that away till I'll not drink the cup the father has given me so I read this and going in with what I said in John 12 here's what hit me that when Jesus predicted his death and his resurrection in John 12 he says when I'm lifted up I will draw all men to myself piggyback that with what he said in John 10, 17, and 18, which is no one is going to take my life. I'm going to give it voluntarily. I'm going to give it up.

So here you have this strange happening. In kind of what we're reading in Colossians with Jesus, how did he make a public spectacle out of them? Well, number one, I think this is different. That was probably the first time a bunch of Roman soldiers went to arrest somebody and he spoke some words, I am he. And I actually looked up as many scholars as I could find, and they all kind of said the same thing.

They said, you're tempted to say something miraculous happened here. But John is clear about when things that happened were miraculous, he spells it out. So no one from a scholar viewpoint wanted to jump to that. they were like maybe it was the way he said it maybe it was because of all the times they've ever done this there was just something about jesus maybe it was their guilt because they knew his reputation maybe it was the way he came across but somewhere in there when he said i am he they fell back which i would argue was public spectacle number one i'm just not sure that it ever happened

to a bunch of Roman soldiers coming up to an unarmed man. Yeah. And something happened here. So I continued to read all the way until Jesus died, and I, you know, I jotted down several instances

where I seemingly, you know, found the same thing. If you look at, this is when he's in front of the high priest. Look at 19. It says, meanwhile, the high priest questioned Jesus, about his disciples and his teaching.

I have spoken openly to the world, Jesus replied. I always taught in synagogues, right at the temple, where all the Jews came together. I said, nothing in secret. Why questioned me? Ask those who heard me. Surely they know what I said. When Jesus said this,

one of the officials nearby struck him in the face. Is this the way you answered, the high priest? And I thought about that. Why is that triggering a response from the high priest when all Jesus said was, I've spoken openly, I haven't done anything in secret, and there's a lot of witnesses that you can go ask. And it caused him to hit him. I mean, that just kind of struck me as who does it.

It wasn't like he was denying anything. He was just like, look, my life's an open book. It wasn't being provocative or antagonistic. No, but it caused rage. Yeah. because this is not normal is what I'm telling you. So then you try to break him. You want him to act like other people who are usually being interrogated or usually being arrested, but that's not happening.

And I want to make the overall point that I believe all this happen because God doesn't force. He doesn't bully. He doesn't coerce. Jesus didn't have bombs or bullets. or that was not the way that he was going to take over the world. He literally. Which is what Peter thought. I mean, that's why he pulled a sword out.

Exactly. It's the old hymn that we sang. He could have called 10,000 angels. So he could have. I mean, in his sovereignty, I mean, he certainly could have do whatever he wants. I mean, but, yeah, the way of the kingdom seems to be the way of the crucible. It's the way of the cross, which vindicated by the resurrection. Yeah.

So then when you go down when he was before, Pilate's like, so now he's moving up, and he's like, Pilate in verse 33, are you a king? Is that your own idea, Jesus asked, or did others talk to you about me? Pilate replied, it was your people and your chief priest who handed you over to me. What is it you've done? Jesus, responding like no other human being ever, my kingdom is not of this world, if it were my servants, would fight. He's not going to bully.

It's not about muscle, that kind of power to prevent my arrests by the Jews, but now my kingdom is from another place. Oh, so you're a king then. Now we're getting to a typical question. You're right. And saying I'm a king, Jesus said, in fact, for this reason, I was born. And for this, I came into the world to test. to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me. And what I find fascinating is that later

when Pilate is speaking in verse chapter 19 and verse 7 and 8, the Jews insisted we have a law, and according to that law, he must die because he claimed to be the son of God. When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid. And I thought, Now, isn't this weird? The guy who's fixed to die is not afraid. And the guy that's going to put him to death is in terror. He's afraid. Now he's more afraid.

And then when you read verse 12 and 13 of chapter 19. From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free. But the Jews kept shouting, if you let this man go, you're no friend of Caesar. anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar. When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge's seat at a place known as a stone pavement. And eventually we know that Jesus died.

So I went through all that to so that Jesus didn't try. He did it in love voluntarily. And when you think about the repercussions of what just happened here, Roman's kingdom would eventually fail. every other kingdom that's been based on power as far as I mean think Hitler the Nazis that we're going to take over the world tanks bomb they fail but Jesus his story flourished I mean we're

2,000 years later and we got a podcast there's millions of people that have put their faith and trust in this king he and he did it with a group of people of Romans who made public spectacles out of opposition people. But he in turn made them a public spectacle long term and in the short term because it affected their attitude, how they acted, them falling back. And when you read all of it, I think it paints a picture of God's love winning out. Yeah, it's not just of the Roman authorities either. I mean, it's also of the Jewish authorities and their entire temple system. I mean, he conquered the

whole thing or fulfilled one side and conquered the other and a new reality or the reality however is realized now in his presence. And I think that's the big, his presence alone is disruptive enough that he doesn't have to be antagonistic. His presence alone transforms culture. And I think that's the takeaway of what we see here. And that's why it says all authorities in heaven and or hurt. Let's take a break.

When we come back from our break, Zach has got a guest. we're going to add to our discussion here today. So let's take a break. Welcome back to Unashamed. Zach, we have a guest on today. We're super excited about. Tell us who our guest did. Our good friend, Joel's from,

now this is a young man played for Ohio State football. The Ohio State. The Ohio State. I keep messing that up, and you keep correcting me. But we did found a common love for Danny Wharfell. That's right. Love that, man. Because you won the second Danny Wharfill Award,

trophy? Yeah, the Danny Whorffle trophy. I'm the second winner. What do you get that for? Looking like Danny Wharfell? Well, we have the same haircut. Oh. That's been to say, you do look a lot like it. It's, uh, they give that, it's the community service college football award. You know, they got the academic award and all the different, you know, positions and that's for community service. So it was something noble. Well, congratulations. I didn't realize that, and you said, our, we all know Rudy Niswanger, because he's from Monroe, and I didn't realize that he won it first year. He was the first ever winner. I was the second. He and I are the only two former winners to have to go back, that we have been back to the ceremony every single year. Since I was just at

Rudy's house. And in fact, I just, when I was sitting over there, I just texted him, told him I was going to be on the podcast. Didn't he go to LSU? Yep. He's an LSU guy. Okay. Yeah. Well, what's interesting is, so you're over here on the Couts listing to Jace talk about the whole FCA football, because you, and your organization, lifewise, you guys get the word of God into public school. So there's a lot of, what were you thinking as you're listening to the conversation unfold? Well, I loved hearing that. I mean, I was involved in FCA when I was in high school. It was hugely influential to me. And then, in fact, I was on staff with FCA for a few years. And so I assumed that was a field of faith, field to faith event. That's what it was called. It was

called Field of Faye. Yeah. And so, yeah, I've had a passion ever since I was in high school. I came to faith in high school. And so I've had a passion to get the gospel to kids in school. And, yeah, our ministry lifewise, we provide Bible education to public school students during school hours under a little-known Supreme Court ruling that says you can actually students can be released from school during school hours to receive Bible education, but it has to be off-school property, privately funded, parent-permits. So we pick kids up, take them off-site, teach them in the Bible, and take them back. I love that. Well, this could be the second greatest comeback ever. There you go. That's exactly right. When was this statute,

written? 1952, right, though? That's right. So the Supreme Court rule, but yeah, it's funny. You've mentioned that. I love the comeback thing, but yeah, as we all know, decades ago, the Bible was removed from public education. But in 1952, in Zorak v. Klausen, the Supreme Court ruled that it is constitutional. And sadly, it's been 70 years, and almost nobody knows it's possible.

And that's why lifewise exists, because we provide the tools, the resources, the system, so that any community can implement. implement it, and it's spreading. It's at a super grassroots, which I love. So how did you even, like how do you go from playing football at the Ohio State to doing what you're doing now? Yeah, great question. So, well, I was not a marquee player, even though, you know, I got to win an award and I was a part of some championships. I wasn't a marquee player, but I was a very outspoken Christian. I would go and speak in the community, speak in churches.

The campus crusade ministry would even have me to just speak on the oval, like do open. and air preaching and stuff. And so I really honed the speaking thing. And so I had a 12-year career in full-time speaking. In fact, founded a Speaker's Bureau. And we focused on public high schools and middle schools. We would do a school assembly during the day, invite students to come back at night where they could hear a faith-based message. We would partner with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes a lot for those evening events where we would share the gospel. And then in 2018, somebody in my hometown reached out to me and said, hey, Joel, we want you to help us with with our released time program.

And I said, what is that? I don't know what that is. They said, oh, well, in 2012, we started a program where we pulled kids out of the school, we teach them the Bible and take them back to school. And I said, well, that sounds illegal. I don't think, I'm not sure you can do that. And that's when they explained to me,

no, there's a Supreme Court ruling. And I came to find out that after I moved away from my hometown, they started this program and 95% of the entire school was enrolled, being taught the Bible on a weekly basis, So in the same way kids get art class once a week, music class, gym class. They get Bible class once a week. It's off-site, but they get it. And so they asked me, they said, Joel, you have all these connections and schools. You do all the speaking. Help us spread this thing. And so I went to the group and I said, I think the issue is it's too hard. You got to basically start a private school to do this. What if you put it in a box, make it scalable, make it repeatable? I think communities would do it. And they said, that sounds like a great idea. We don't want to do that. Joel, we think you should do that. And so I was kind of voluntold to do it.

I said, okay. And so we actually just as a side project of our Speakers Bureau, we started this a Lifewise Academy thing just to see if it would work. And now it's really going. Wow. Some person, Joe, some person Joe did to you like I used to do when I was a pastor. Somebody come and said, Pastor, I got this great idea about that. About this ministry.

And they lay it out and I said, when do you start? Correct. Exactly. If you come up with the idea, you're going to do all that. And I go implement that, which is a lot, though. I mean, but, you know, it's funny because I think back on my own, I was talking about this recently with our church, that I looked back at my life and think about what was the most, like, fundamental thing that shaped my love for Christ. And I've had a lot of great, like, mountain top experiences, like the camp highs and all that. And I would not want to take that away from my life.

but what really shaped my desire for Christ and for the kingdom more than anything else in my life, it was the mundane act of learning those Bible stories in Sunday school week after week. And my mom even would sit in my closet at night and she would just read me, the Word of God, just read this over me, teach me these stories of God that are all in the Bible. So I just can't overemphasize the importance of when children are, young, the rhythm of getting into God's word and learning the story of Joseph, learning the story of creation, learning about Noah, the flood, and all that. But that mundane act of teaching our children is so important. And unfortunately, a lot of churches now don't even do Sunday school

anymore. This is interesting how you guys are bringing it back in. You're partnering with Lifeway on the curriculum, with the gospel project. That's right. Yeah, what we really want to bring to the table is how do you make this possible in the community? So we developed the systems and the website and all those things. But we didn't want to necessarily reinvent the wheel for curriculum. And so we said, what's the greatest curriculum for kids on the planet? And we concluded right away, that's the gospel project that walks students straight through the Bible, Genesis through Revelation, teaches the gospel each and every week.

And so we went to Lifeway and we said, hey, could we take your curriculum, but kind of reformat it, make it kind of fit. And they said, hey, if more kids hear the gospel, you do it. And so we're really excited to be partnering with them. What are the age groups that you have now? Yeah, we tend to start at the elementary level and build it into the kids. Like I said, there's specials rotation, art, music, gym class, that type of schedule. We start there, but then expand the program up as kids get older.

And so we now do have more than 50 middle school. We have, we're confirmed in over 600 schools nationwide, 31 states, but that includes about 50 middle school programs. And now we have a handful of high school programs as well. So, Joe, I had a question. Do you, do you find that a lot of unchurched kids will come and participate? I know you have to have parental permission for kids to be able to enroll in this program. Do you find that kids who maybe don't have any background or are they kind of checking this out as part of the process? All the time.

I would say most, I think most of our students are not part of a local church, have no background. I mean, all the time we hear kids coming in, and we tend to hold them in a church down the road. And kids are sit, we'll say, this is my first time in a church. Oh, wow. I heard the story recently of the girl being handed the Bible in the first day, and she said, wow, the pages are so thin, because she'd never held a Bible before. We regularly hear from parents, hey, I'm not, I don't have my family in church. I don't have my kids in church, but I feel like this would be good for them.

Or sometimes they'll literally say, you know, it couldn't hurt for my kid to get some Bible. And then we see the whole family getting reconnected because the kid falls in love with Jesus. I love that. They go home and they say, hey, they keep talking about church. Why don't we go to church? And then you see the whole family get involved. I was just preaching outside Columbus. And a family came up to me afterward and said, we want to thank you.

We as a whole family were just baptized. And we got connected because our daughter started going to lifewise. and then we started coming to church and now we're plugged in. This sounds like a project that we just helped promote. Dallas Jenkins did a movie called The Greatest Christmas Pagent Ever. And so they actually invited kids that didn't go to church. I don't know if they invited them. I think they just showed up.

And they wanted to be in the pageant. And it made everybody uncomfortable because they didn't know the story. But, you know, as it goes along, I won't ruin the movie for everyone, but I'm sure most people have read the book. So, I mean, that's very exciting that y'all are doing that. And I can tell you the reason why even unchurched kids are doing that, being a parent's hard. And you're looking at options. And I can see parents who don't even believe, say, well, I tell you what, we've tried everything else. Let's try that. But there's a reason where, you know, when we took God out of schools, all of a sudden it started producing

kids with less God characteristics. There's no question. Yeah, I think even the stats back all that up. Is that not right? I'm sure y'all've looked into all that. Oh, we certainly have. I mean, anxiety, depression, suicide, all at all-time highs, professions of faith, biblical literacy, all-time lows.

And you say being a parent's hard, that is very true. I tell you what, being an educator is harder and harder, because we hear regularly educators who say, you know, it's no longer enough to simply educate kids. You almost have to parent them at the same time. And yes, as we've taken the Bible out of school, we've removed the foundation, the very thing that kids build their life upon. And as we are pouring it into the hearts of students, as those of us on this podcast, we all recognize the spiritual, eternal value of the Word of God. But we are seeing immediate it measurable positive effects. I mean, there's a third-party study done on just our program

Lifewise and found that when Lifewise is implemented, attendance goes up in a time of chronic absenteeism. Kids just want to show up for school more when they have Life-Wise, when they're attending Life-Wise. They also see behavior improve in school. Now school suspensions go down. And so schools love it because they can kind of, in a way, outsource. They can say, yeah, kids can have this Bible education, but it doesn't have to be the state. It's doing it. Which is better, I think. I think your solution is better.

Yeah, I just read this year, Jonathan, Jonathan Heights book, Anxious Generation. I don't know if you've heard about his work, but he catalogs all of these statistics on our youth and just the rise in anxiety disorders, suicidal ideation, depression, I mean, all of these drug addiction, all this. And I think we were, there's this global conversation going on. right now of how do we address, you know, a lot of it's social media and whatnot. I just saw in Europe they're going to perhaps outlaw social media for students under the age of 16. So I feel like we're at this cultural moment where what you're doing is there's a conversation

that's already being had. And even if the world accepts this as a pragmatic solution, I think there's an opportunity here. So are you guys seeing that at all? Oh, we're seeing it. Yeah, majorly. I think that even compared to like 10 years ago, the pendulum, I think, reached its far point and is coming back. Yeah. That there's many people who were closed off who thought we need to secularize, secularize, secularize, who realized, oh, wait, that has created massive problems. And so we need a way to re-implement this, a way to reinstall this. And even though it's 70 years old, the solution, it's kind of new in the sense that nobody knows about it, that, okay, this is a way that the state doesn't, have to teach you. We don't have to put the Bible in the hand of the public school teacher to say,

you're now necessarily a Bible teacher, but this is a way to incorporate it, that the church can be there, the families can say, yeah, I want to opt my kid in. And that way we can keep it gospel-centered sharing the truth and not just teach the Bible as literature or history or something, right? We can say, no, this is the truth. And Jesus is the answer. I love that. So, Joel, we're out of time, but man, we are 100% behind what you guys are doing. I'm hoping this will be, uh, wake up call to other people in other states who don't know and hadn't heard of this before because I'd never heard about it until two years ago I met a couple of your guys at an event. So we love what you're doing.

Thank you for coming on the podcast, letting our folks know about an unashamed nation. Anytime we're getting the word of God out, too, especially young people, we're doing something good. So God bless you what you're doing. Keep fighting the fight, brother. Thank you. Appreciate it. It's an honor. All right.

So we'll see you next time on Unashamed. Thanks for listening to the Unashamed podcast. Help us out by rating us on iTunes. And don't miss an episode by subscribing on YouTube and be sure to click that little bell to get notified about new episodes. And for even more content that you won't get anywhere else, subscribe to BlazeTV at blazedtv.com slash unashamed.