Unchained - How Bitcoin Solved This Serial Entrepreneur's Problems

Episode Date: August 8, 2017

Afghan entrepreneur Roya Mahboob has launched numerous companies, but it was a blogging platform that presented her with the problem of how to pay her (mostly female) users, 99% of whom did not have bank accounts. And even if they did get paid, their families would often confiscate the money. She found her solution in Bitcoin, and later launched a new startup, Digital Citizen Fund, that trains girls in blockchain technology and Bitcoin. Mahboob, named one of the 100 most influential people in the world by Time magazine in 2013, funded the Afghan girls' robotics team that made news recently, and describes what went on behind-the-scenes. She also tells us about her other ventures, EdyEdy, her coffee/tea venture Digital Citizen Brew, and the marketplace for Afghan goods that she is launching -- which will accept Bitcoin or perhaps its own token.   Show notes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurashin/2017/08/08/how-bitcoin-solved-this-serial-entrepreneurs-problems/   Digital Citizen Fund: http://digitalcitizenfund.org/ Roya's Time 100 description, written by Sheryl Sandberg: http://time100.time.com/2013/04/18/time-100/slide/roya-mahboob/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Unchained, a podcast engineered by fractal recording and produced by me, your host, Laura Shin, a senior editor at Forbes covering all things crypto. Thanks for tuning in. If you've been enjoying this podcast, please help get the word out about the show. Share it on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, or on your secret Slack and Telegram channels. And if you have a chance, please give the show a rating or review on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Big thanks to our sponsor, OnRamp. If you're having an ICO, a token sale, a token allocation event, a token generation event, or whatever you're calling your offering that passes the how we test, you need a website.

Check out OnRamp. This full service creative and design agency provides its clients with attractive and persuasive branding, websites, and marketing materials. Spark interest in your project, generate buzz. Check out ThinkOnRamp.com. I am recording here on Sir Richard Branson's Necker Island, which is where the podcast was born a little over a year ago. I'm here again for the blockchain summit, which is hosted by the Bitfury Group and Bill Tai, who was a guest on the podcast last year and whose amazing episode you should definitely check out. This is where I met today's guest, Roya Makhbub, a serial entrepreneur and president of Digital Citizen Fund,

Digital Citizen Brew, and Eddie Eddie. And in 2013, she was named one of Time Magazine's 100 most influential people in the world. Welcome, Roya. Thank you, Laura, for having me here. So, Roya, out of all the Bitcoin entrepreneurs I've ever interviewed, I would say you have the most different and most inspiring story. And you're also using Bitcoin in one of the most different ways. So you're originally from Afghanistan. How did you get your start with technology?

Well, at age of 16 years old, I heard about that. There is a box that, a magic box, that you can touch and you can connect with the world, and you can ask any question that you want. And then also you can talk with the people. way that meeting with them and they are ready to answer your questions. So for me at age 16, I hear that there was interclub just opened in Herod and I went there and that's for the first time when I used the internet and used the computer and I found out that there was a new world outside writing for me to explore it. And that's what everything's changed for me.

From that point on, I decided to make technology the center of my carrier. So what were you doing back then? like was it just like you were googling questions or what? I mean, before using the computer or? Yeah, like when you started. When I, yeah, it was Googling. When you put any, like any words, you could get thousands of, I mean, news or you could get a lot of the articles. That was very interesting because at Herod in 2003, you know, the Taliban just left it.

And it was very limited books in the library. And it was very old books. and then mostly coming from Iran and then we didn't have any updated information. And it was, for me, was fascinated at this small box as you can do, we can find any information. Thousands of the books or millions of the books are available. And did you speak English at that time?

No, it was in Farsi. You could also find a lot of information. But I learned English actually through social media, I mean, through chatting. I hear that there was a Yahoo messenger. You could go to the public and then you could chat with the people. And for me, it was interesting, but I was very shy and a very unconfidence person. But when I started chatting with people, it's increased my confidence. And I learned more, and I'm trying to learn, and I had a book to checking the words and in English, and I can write.

So that's how I learned. Wait, are you serious? Like, did you have any formal education in English? Not that much. There was, like, some books that they were available. And then, but later on, I had classes in office. our university that I talked it because we were lucky and we had the German as our teachers. So the only way to communicate that our teacher were English.

That's amazing. I'm so impressed with that. So then you also started a company at a young age. How did you come to start your first company? Well, I started working in a hierarchy in a university coordinator for three years. And then I went to move to Minister of Higher Education. work as IT project manager of the IT departments. And then at that time, I met with Powell Brankley and another Skoy,

that they were, he was on the Secretary of Defense at that time. Like an American, I guess, okay. And then they were coming and then they had a concept to bring, like, building a technology center in Harad and that we were discussed about that. And but, but at that time, I said, okay, we were, we created a lot of the soft and it was mostly free. And we showed those software and applications to a team that he brought from Silicon Valley. And everyone wants to encourage us.

And then we said that why we don't make it commercialized. And then that's how I started to Afghanistan's software. Oh, interesting. You developed it for the ministry, but then you... We developed it for university and ministry, but it was a team of the girls, mostly. And also there was boys as well. but we built most of the educational software free and giving to the public.

We didn't tell at that time that maybe we might be able to make it commercialized and make money. But then when they came, they're discussing about big projects and then why we don't start it. And then I started my first company, and at the same time, task for businesses of sustainability operation, they built an incubator in Harad. And then I was like, who was it that program? Task for Business and the Operation.

Okay. It was a program by DOD of US. So they brought the Department of Defense. Yeah. Okay. They built an incubator, the first incubator in Rod. And they brought IBM and Google, but the IBM were at the IBM advisor, mentor, reminder.

We were like, I was one of the seven companies that we were in that incubator. And what did your company do? And what was it called? It was called Afghan students software. Before that incubator built, we started to working in a coffee shop and restaurants because we didn't have a place to work. And my work was we provided services in IT infrastructure, procurement of the computers, building the networks for like universities. And then also we building the software or giving the consultancy on the application. So like IT services?

Yes, full IT services for. And how old for you when you started that company? I was 23. Wow. That's amazing. Yes. And who were your investors and clients? Like how did you find business?

Well, I was trying first to working with the U.S. government. And then it was good working with the U.S. government. We could make money with the contracts. But the problem was that people were conservative and because we were mostly female in genera today. They didn't like that. with them. So there's other rumors and giving our names to do call the one conservative leaders. So we decided to work on the government,

African government contracts. But then the other problem was having government contract was that based on the law women could get participated. But once you get a contract, they make your lives like a hill to giving paying your payments. So my biggest problem was that corruption was existed at that time and many of the contracts and with the government. And then the other problem that I had, it was that they don't pay on time. And I want to go back earlier when you were saying, like, when you were trying to get private clients, they were giving your names to whom again? No, the private clients didn't give us our names. I mean, when I was starting for working

for the U.S. government for some of the contracts or NATO, so then conservative and the people who didn't like that, they're giving our names to the local Taliban and informed and that, oh, these people, they are women, they're working with military. So that was the purpose of that. They're giving meaning to the Taliban. Because they send other threats to us. They didn't want that to be working. Yeah.

Like, they trades or they were just telling you that you shouldn't work with them or you are, like, not anymore Muslims. So, like, they're making a lot of names for you. It wasn't only that you work for the U.S. government. Also, it was the broader problem was that if you work with a man outside, it wasn't at all acceptable. And I was a friend, like, when we were, sorry. in technology, we were the first company as a female. I was the CEO, but we had also male, like a co-worker, but the problem is that our, most of my, it wasn't problem,

but it was a problem for the society of conservative and male dominated that many of them my employees were women and the young girls. So that wasn't unacceptable if we're giving Hensland or we work with it. We go to the military places and became everyone's making, like, a lot of rumors that, Oh, they never like mentioned that we very get to this contracts or if we work because of our ability, because of we have the ability and we have talented to work together. They make it rumors. Oh, they do blah, blah. That's why they get the contract.

So they make that rumors was created, was danger for our reputation as well to living in that conservative society. And you also mentioned that they put a spy in your company? It was after that I became as a time 100. They started to be a spy my company because my company grew very fast and then I started to hire a lot of the women's and also the men to working instead of my company and also work online for me. And then my competitors that didn't like that and they are mostly, we call them mafia of IT industry

because they get the most, at that time they got all the biggest countries. So they put it on the spite to giving information of my whatever I had in projects for what I'm doing and everything is outside. Wow. And also the government, it sounds like, was making things difficult for you. So how did you solve these problems? Well, it was very difficult because in government at that time, it was like it was elections going on. And then a prison care say didn't sign the agreement from a prison guarantee. He didn't sign the agreement. The security was on that. It wasn't only for my company, it was for many of the companies at that time. They had the challenges of very difficult times with the government. And the problem with the government, they didn't support my work. So that was the biggest challenges.

Because when I went to complaining and asking them to support, they never were like really very supportive of to help me at that time. And you also mentioned during the summit that your employees were even attacked. What happened? Well, when it was in 2012, I backed that why what's this, what's happening after then I did a contract, what was a contractor? Then I pushed back by society because they started to make rumors. And then they also put a day, they broke in our window off our office. And then they send a trades in my house.

And then that's, I moved to Kabul. And then I decided my team were in Rod, but I decided to be staying in Kabul to not only to be more safe, but also just because Kabul was. the bigger place that we could find the clients. And then I decided that, okay, I should not be relying on the contracts anymore. And I shouldn't be relying on the private sector that they don't want to work with the women. And I decided to become as a digital citizen and using the advantage of the free market and finding the clients outside of the border. So that's why I reach out through the LinkedIn. Someone has invited me to the LinkedIn to credit. account and I went there and said, oh wow, that's a great place. I started to find a clients there.

And that was lead me to find an investor there, that he was Italian-American leaves in New York. We never met and he contact me and then we discussed about different projects and then he interested in one of my ideas and one of our projects and he invested. And then my, that investment helped me to make money with advertising and, um, um, um, to make money with advertising and, um, network and then that's what traffic and then I decided to giving back to the community so when I started giving back to the community we we're building the IT centers inside of the schools and then we're teaching the girls about how to work with the computer and is all of this the digital citizen fund digital citizen funds yeah now they are all moved to the under digital

some funds umbrella at that time my campaign building with the profits that we made it did with the platform called Vuburnanx. Okay, but keep going with how you were doing that. You were building these education centers? So, I mean, at that time, I feel that, okay, I mean, I could overcome lots of the challenges, and it's because of the technology on the Internet. It's helped me to not connect to the border of country

of domestic life or a country that some people can make a decision about my life or my company. And I overcome a lot of challenges, the struggle that we had. And it's also break down the barriers for me. But I knew that there are still many obstacles who are outside. They're just like me. They're curious, but giving no vision to explore the world. They wanted to know more, but they don't know what's truly possible for them.

And that's why I decided to give them. And I talked with my partner and my business partner, and he was totally angry. And then he says, and he said that it's 50% of free art profits, there was 100% to building the centers. And that's how we started to building the IT centers. We first decided with one of schools. We're building one IT centers for them. And we got a lot of the positive and see the girls.

When I see these girls go online for the first time, it always would break the memorize of the first time I used the Internet ad in the cafe in Harad. You could literally see the changes in your face. These women and girls, they have their entire life. just talk with close relatives and the family member. And they said that they are connected with the world. And they have a digital voice. They have a voice to talk about your stories that no one wanted at that time listen to them.

And the other thing is that these women and girls, their entire life, depending on the men. And for the first time, with the skills of the technology, with the skill of the Internet, they fill the financial independence. And this has the power how the kids. conservative nations can change their view on the woman. So when I started building these centers, we also started to provide a training for them. And then we says, okay, they're learned. So what's the next? Finding opportunities to find a job for them. So the platform that we built with Francesco was called Woman and X. It was a technology that allowed the women to write

blocks and upload movies and they're working online. And we pay to those who write the original content and better content. We paid for some of the content provider for it. And that's lead us that we can keep continue. And then at that time, I had hundreds of people who started working for me online. And then we had built two office, one in a couple. And then we started to hiring people not only from female, but also from male that they do marketing. It was easier to do it to men to go to work with the private sectors and talk.

is the year than the woman to deal with them. So that's how I started to work. With Amex Platinum, almost every purchase made with your card can be covered with points, including new tastes, new fits, and virtually everything in between. That's the powerful backing of Amex.

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They put that shit on everything. Breakfast available until 11 a.m. At participating Canadian restaurants for a limited time. Franks Red Hot is a registered trademark of the French's food company LLC. And I actually want to go back to when you stopped working with Afghan companies and the government and found your own citizens or your own clients outside. where did you find this clients? Most like for LinkedIn.

Right, but like what countries and? Mostly it was in America. And then the good thing is that when I found this, my business partner, and he started to, like when he was in my company, in my idea, we shift our contract base to only focusing on working on that platform, woman and X and develop the software. So we shifted later. So eventually it was just the blog.

Yeah. Okay. And that platform will make us enough money that we keep continuing on. And the money you were generating revenue from ads? It was from advertising and ad network and also the traffic. We got 6,000 of the public domain and also from private filmmakers donated in our platform. So we created, generated views. And then we had like 2 million some of the month.

And then we had also the months that we had 5 million viewers. they came to our platform. Great. And I actually just also wanted to ask about your family. Did they fully support you and all this? Or did they also have reservations? When I was started, before I started my company, my family, my father was very open mind. And that's why, I mean, he was very supportive of what I do, my mom as well. And then my brother were at the beginning conservative.

I mean, of course, they were living in conservative and very male-dominated country. and that's why they were at the beginning not happy, but when I started to, social media really empowered me and I started to talk at the home and then giving the ideas, and the beginning I started to ignoring whatever I had an idea, but later on, they started to think differently. And it's very, very important when you're living in such conservative societies to have support of the family.

If I didn't have support of my family, I wasn't be able to do any of these things. Of course, I motivate my family. I involved with everything that I did. And that's why they keep continue to support me. And I went there was a time that the new bears and the men and our rot community, they came to my father. And they told that they have to stop me. He has to stop me. He had to stop me because I am disordered.

I'm working with military, I'm working with a fire and I'm taking pictures. It's not a good for a Muslim woman. Wait, I'm sorry, who was this that came to your family in today? When you, like my, our society is different. Like the community members are like the Shora or the people that they know of my father. So they reach out to friends of my father and the people who work, my father worked with them. So they came and they told my father, he has to stop. And it's otherwise I might be end up to be.

very disordinary families. They have to stop it now. And what does your father say? My father says that he said that he fully trust me and he knows what I'm doing and he involved in everything's and he

won't stop me and that's why I keep continuing but of course at that point when I received attacks and it wasn't a good time that's staying in Harad so that's not left to Kabul. Okay. And then is it a Digital Citizen Fund that you were having difficulty paying your users?

It was a bit of a woman and ex-platform. So we had difficulties because when the number of users increased, and then we had the problem after paying the students. And many of these female students didn't have a bank account. I mean, almost 99% of them didn't have a bank account. And why not? Because based on the law of Afghanistan, women can have a bank account when they become as 18 years old.

But based on the culture, it was mostly cultural and barriers. And there are many of the family they didn't believe in the banking system. Or still, when it's not about female, I guess that maybe only 30% of the Afghans trust bank,

they're still using the Hawala system. I don't know if you hear about how well the system is, a havala system is started this 8th century. is for many years was the only way a trustful transfer of the money. So it's like I trust someone

and then I give the money to this person and this person knows that another person's and then that person, he called that person to give a code to that person and that person gave the money to others. It's like, oh my God. It's kind of like a similar to Bitcoin but it's not like really.

But it's kind of a that many still in Afghanistan and many other countries are still using the howlis system. It's like an eighth century Bitcoin. Yeah, they call the bitcoins as the 21st century of howlis system. So that's hilarious.

Yeah, and then so we, the problem that, and then there was also other issues that the women, I mean, the bank is the same, they have to go to the bank and Roger said they have to have every of like documents and they have to have permission.

of the families and family didn't want to open a bank account for them. So it was a lot of the struggle that we had and then we decided to use a PayPal account and PayPal didn't work in Afghanistan. And then we decided to use mobile money, it was a

pay says, and then the problem with mobile money was if we send the money, it still was expensive because the receiver and transfer still caught the money. So if it wasn't very affordable, we sent it through. And at that time, it wasn't really worked. They had this concept for years through the

program, but at the time that we wanted, they didn't really implement it in a way that we could use it. So we were just looking to find a base because the number of users get increased and we didn't know how to pay these employees. And for me it was difficult because the money came to my bank account and it was also dangerous for me because if people find out, oh, she has a lot of money. And they keep snopping and the selling the money was

exist and every time that I went to the bank to get the money to distribute it, I had to brought my brother, cousin and also my other male employees to go with me to the bank to get the money and then we go together because it was difficult and then the other problem

was with the money is when you distribute the money we didn't only had the female who write the place but we also had some male but some of them, especially from male, they They get the money and then they came back in and did deny. And you show them the signature and they said, this is not my signature. So that's what?

Wait, I don't understand. They deny what? They deny that they get the money. Oh, like they want to be paid a second time. Yeah, for the second time. And then it was another challenge is for my employees to managing how, like keeping the recourse of these people that they get paid and then like they want a second time. So it's like we had this difficulties.

a lot and actually i also want to go back when you said you to go to the bank with your male relatives and employees like it the bank account was in your name right yeah so i don't know the reason i to protect us to get the money from the bank and going back to the home and at that time there were there were a lot of like criminal that if you find out that you have a lot of money in the bank and when you go and coming back on for that It was more safe to go with a couple of men. Right. And then it was more like, I think we didn't have to trust to the people in the bank or we didn't trust the environment.

So we decided to have some people to protect us to go and back. And then the other thing, these are issues that I have to give the money to the different schools and different people to come and then they distribute it to the money to the users. And it was a challenging for us to keep record of every person. Banking was good. if we could send to everybody and we could keep every records, but unfortunately they didn't have a bank. So then how did you hear about Bitcoin? So then my former business partner, Francesco, one day sent me an article about Bitcoin and he says, what do you think about this? And then

I was reading, I was a bit skeptical and then I said, what does it eat? And then I was reading and then he keeps sending me the article and he was so fascinated about Bitcoin. And he said that, Roy, I'm going to move to Bitcoins. And I said at that time, I think the price of Bitcoin was $800 in 2013, I guess. But then I said, yeah, it's interesting. And then when I read about the concept, it was so similar to howell it system. And I was like, okay, so maybe I can explain to the people easier. And then when I started to tell students that how we, the users, how are we going to pay them, I was used to how wallet.

And then I just told them that this is a new version of digital of the Hala. I love it. And it's crazy to me that the system didn't change from the 8th century until the 21st century, but they replaced it with the digital version of the same old system. That's amazing. But I mean, Bitcoin has a lot of future. I mean, blockchain and Bitcoin has a lot of features that they can keep the records and a lot of other things.

But still, it was very easier to explain everybody. And then I said that, this is the money that you do. can keep it. I mean, you know, to explain to for Afghans when they don't touch the something, it was difficult that I said, but when you're talking about like how the system was easier that they can understand and we told them that they can keep their monies in digital wallet. And the good thing is also was in the way that we brought the Bitcoin in Afghanistan was that when the students at that time, when the female started to make money, some of the family took with it forced the money from them. And they like they couldn't buy the things that they

want. It was always when they make money someone's taking from them. And then and I wanted that they have a freedom of their what they make it. And of course it was totally support them that they can support your families, but also for those who wanted to save it and want to keep it

for their future, for their education or for whatever they needed for their lives, it was good to keep it in their digital wallet. So we teach them about how to build the e-wallet and then how to keep the bitcoins there and then then that's how we brought it. And then another challenge was that's how they make it cash in case that they need it. So then my company decided to also make them cash in the rate of what's in the market. And then we also talking with a couple of the shops that if that time, that if the students have to get received Bitcoin student college them, they can buy the stuff. So we talk with some of the shops that they had the closing and uniform for the school or going outside.

And they accepted in case that we immediately make for them a cash. And we discussed with them, we teach them about Bitcoin. So it wasn't going well. And then we decided also to talking about, and then there was also time that we decided to build. We also decided to build it. And then there was a call it. There was a card that we built it. The students who had made Bitcoins, if they wanted to buy online books,

so then we could do buying for them. online books. Oh, like a debit card. Yeah. And then we received books in our office and then we could sell that to Afghanistan and the service to the students. And we encourage many of these students to keep their work with coins to if they go on like if they couldn't go to university in Afghanistan, they can study online and paying for the university in Bitcoins or they can make it the cash later. And that was how we started in 2013 and 2014 and the platform worked very well. And then we

started working in Pakistan, we started paying the users in Pakistan, we started also in Egypt, we started in Mexico, and it's growing very fast. How many users were? We had more than 60,000 subscription, and then the user that they provide, at least, I guess, that 25% was trying to contribute it, but some of them rarely contributed and we make more money. And that was also another reason that we talked to treating into how to bring the changes, was when the user increase, the money that we had is get less and less because we have to distribute it to many of the content contributor.

And I found out that the Afghans, when they're writing the blogs, they didn't write in the quality that they get more money. So that was all a decision that we decided to make a new platform, new things that are to educate the goals that I saw that ADAD platform. And it still is in underdevelopment. But that's my next platform that I'm going to work on that. Okay, so we're going to break now for an important work from our sponsor, OnRamp, but we'll come back and learn more about Eddie Eddie.

With so many companies buying for people's attention now, it's important to stand out from the pack. If you're starting up a new decentralized project and want to spread the word about it, check out OnRamp, a full-service creative agency that helps projects maximize awareness, gain traction, and accelerate growth. OnRamp has helped numerous organizations do everything from create their branding and identity to redesign their existing website. plus they've helped blockchain startups and projects.

Whether you're launching a new project, repositioning an existing organization, or just want to freshen your company's look, OnRamp can come up with a tailored design project or a strategic marketing plan that ensures your lead in the market. Learn more and see examples of its work at ThinkOnRamp.com. So, yeah, why don't you continue with Eddie Eddie? What are your goals there?

So with ADD, we are trying to bridge the gap between education and job markets, and we are trying to educate in the kids and the teenagers, mostly, to learn about vocational skills that created a job for them later in the market. And right now, we are in very early stage, and we hope that that would be my next company. I brought the platform that we built in the U.S., and then we registered there, and we got the offer of investment. Hopefully, we get the money in the U.S., and we got the offer, we can decide to work on on this platform.

But what did you do with the, what's it, WomenX? Women and X, we, in the end of 2014, we closed the platform. And then we decided to just provide a training in blockchain and what the blockchain is and what the Bitcoin is, keep continuing through digital and funds. Through the same organization? Yeah. Okay. And then right now we train the girls.

They learn about Bitcoin concept. They learn about how to make a wallet. And then right now they are also started to learn. about Aetterium and they learn also about blockchains. So are you teaching them to code in addition? Yes, in additional some funds we provide training in coding. They learn about how to code and they learn about ICT. From first they started to learn how to work with computers because many of them,

they never saw a computer or they never had access to computer. So we provided training from basic. They learn about computer and then they learn about social media. After social media, there's students who are in advanced classes, then they can learn about code. When they learn about coding, they learn about coding, they learn about Bitcoin's concept, they learn about blockchain, they learn about Aetterium, and they learn about the concept of this. Because I believe the education and awareness is great things that we can promote and advocate that

how our governments can use blockchain in future. And that's how we have to start it from early ages, early ages that teaching the kids. And they are very willing to learn, and they are more interested. to learn. We also, through digital funds, provide financial literacy. That is just started, and we're teaching the kids how to manage the money from a level of home to entrepreneurship. So when we say that we came to advanced classes, we combine those students who learn about coding, we take the students to work with those who learn about financial literacy to start a business. So we have 100 women this year. They started working together or they started by them.

themselves sort of in five industries, agriculture, food, fashion, and craft, and robotic in games. Yeah. Well, so maybe you can give some examples of some of the companies, but then I want to talk about the robotics too. Sure. We have one of students that she learned, she came to our classes to learn about coding and also social media. She learned about ice cream.

I mean, she learned how to make an ice cream from Italian recipe. And she went to back home and she told her father that she wanted to start business in ice cream. And her father was just crazy and he didn't want to listen. For six months, she had a struggle to convince her father to get a machine to make him ice cream. And then her father told her that she only can do it for her relatives, only in the family, not outside, because her father was filled at the shame or whatever he didn't want to support her. But then she started to do it And then the newbers and the and then relatives started to order

And giving for like the events and the parties that they had She made a very, very delicious list. Right now she's distributed to all the restaurants on her rod And her father, brothers and mom joined to her business And they're working as a family business And they're all working for her All working and she's their boss Love it.

Yeah and then we have another student in agriculture Her father had the big farms but her father had a struggle to how to make money with the farms that they had and icault business and her daughter parvonne is coming to her classes and she learned about the business class and how to make the business plan and marketing and i accounting and everything and she also learned about how to coding so she came to her father and she told about her business idea her father her father also didn't want to listen to him. And then she reached to her teacher.

And the teacher convinced her father came to the classes and then listened to her pitch. And then her father for the first time listening to her daughter's pitch of the business. And the ego of the men that, you know, that never like listening to daughters, her father was really, like, impressed with her daughter. And it was, has never came to her mind,

his mind that her daughter came up of this and she can do it she can be like a son and now her father changed whole of his business based on what her daughters suggest her and now not only they dry the Spanish and they make a pocket

and they bring it to market as it was interesting that no one has come to their mind that they can do dry the Spanish and making money and this is brought from Iran they always like for years and years we brought from Iran but no one thought to do it very simple things and she did

And now she's working on her website to making an online business into selling the dry fruits and everything that they have in their farms to make it dry and saw it out. Wow. So going back to the robotics, I also know that you sponsor that girls robotics team that made so much news recently, but it almost didn't happen. Tell the story of the obstacles they faced and how they overcame them. Sure. And the Afghanistan team, I mean, we started about. robotic end of the 2016 when just as a president of first schoolball contact me and he told me about the amazing program that he has and he wanted to do the first Olympic game in D.C.

And he asked me if I know a team of the teenagers at the high school that they can participate from Afghanistan. So I started reading the research about that to finding this team. But I couldn't and it was difficult. And then I said, oh, well, I have all the programs in my school, so why shouldn't start a team of the girl to come for robotic? Because everyone's 16,000 that time, robotics were boys. So we made it a tech test exams from 150 students. We talked 22 and then get 20, then 15 students to come to our program.

But the problem was when we started, we had the problem of the training because many of these kids didn't know about robotic. And some of them they a little bit know about the very simple concept of robotic. And there were the challenges of that the families talk to your daughters out of the programs because they said that first they don't want to let their girls go to U.S. and then what robotic means. So they talk it. Only six families, remind. And then we had problem with electricity, internal connections, and of course, again, with the training, trainer. And then in March of 2017, when first go about some robotic kids stay in our custom.

So custom dream wants to give the robot kids because they have never solved something like this came to Afghanistan. and they say that it might be danger, maybe it's come to the wrong hands and the ISIS use it against the government, so they didn't want to give to us. And then we keep continuing to talk with them, and we brought all the documents and showed them, but they didn't work, they didn't care. We told them that it's a competition when they hear that it's a female team, so they didn't care at all at that time. So they didn't want to give off their robots.

It's three months to stay in with them. This was just the components to build a robot. Yes, it was a, a, um, And then we had these challenges, and then the girls went for the first time to do the interview in the US Embassy. And unfortunately, with respect to the decision of the consular, they were rejected. And the entire team rejected, and they came back, and we talked with Joseph Sack, and then he talked with the State Department. And then they say, okay, we will give another chance to the girls to come for the second time. And then, in meanwhile, we still keep continuing to ask the government to give.

He was the robotic kids that we can work with that. And then they didn't. So then the girls started to working with the handmen, the stuff with the carton, plastic, and this is a stuff to building your own small robot to learn how to work. They build small cars. They build a trend. They build for themselves to dry hair. Dry hair.

Dry hair. And then the building is a small service. and to motivate to keep continuing. And then in the manual, and then they wanted for the second time interview. And unfortunately, the second time was in the middle. Their appointment was at the time that, if you remember, it was early June, and there was an attack in Kabul. There was a protest that going on.

It was so bad. It was three days after after. It was three times attack. And then there was protested in the streets, and the security wasn't good at all. And the families didn't want. wants to let the girls to come at that time. And then many of these girls again, crying, and asking, banging their families to allow them

for the second chance at least they have opportunity to come and present their robots in this computation. But then the family allowed for one day. We brought the kids to Kabul and then with seven to embassy, with the hope that at least a few of them get accepted. But unfortunately, again, everyone's rejected. And it was quite upsetting to seeing that our entire team rejected. And what was the embassy's reason?

Well, there was a couple of things that they didn't tell exactly the reason, but there was a couple of things. One is that the limited number of the B1, B2 for African citizens. And then second, there was another concern is that maybe the girls staying always sank in the United States. So, which we believe that these kids were under the age of 18. They couldn't speak English. And then they had a problem of the family. It was very difficult to get their family's permission, which came for one week.

And in any case, the girls back and they were very upset, but disappointed with the decision. But then the girls decided to build their robot in any way they wanted to send their robots. So they built the robot during the Ramadan. and then before eight, the couple of robots and then they send it to the U.S. And then we try to find another team of Afghan Americans here to be representative of them. But in the meanwhile we started to also, when we find out that we are only one of two teams in 163 countries that they get, we are one of two countries that denied the Uri-Sah, we very get upset that. because my students

as Fatima says that I always thought the Americans are our friends because of 15 years of relationship with the United States and what the United States and other international community did for us like to in terms of women empowerment in terms of the education for women

in terms of the women rights and democracy so we couldn't believe that our team of a girl couldn't come here but our new birds keeps coming like Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, Iran, Sudan All of them could come in, but our team could get it. And then we started to talk with the press,

and we are very, very, very, thanks. Well, the first magazine wrote, it was Forbes, the first one. And then after they had a lot of other media in the press, who contacted us, and we continued to talk with them. And then, I mean, I think it was part of the media. So finally President Trump felt pressure Exactly. They made this stories

And then the congressman, Joe Carty and Susanna, they started to also write a petition that get 53 other congressman signature To ask pharmacy department to give us the visa. And then it was just when I saw that article said, Oh, something's going to be happening. It was the week before and we didn't get any preparation. We didn't know what's going to happen. And then the next day, President Trump, approved that the girls continued.

And then afterward, the reaction in Afghanistan was a little bit different than what you expected. What was that? Yes, and it was like, I mean, when the time that we didn't get the visa on, we started to do press. And everyone's talk about the media of the press wrote about showing the girls. And even Bernard Sanders, Sonatra Bendez-Sender, wrote in her, his Facebook and Sonato Shahin, And like everyone's talk about that, but my governments and my people get so silent and they didn't talk about this. And we try to approach them and ask them to just say one, a few sentences that they are proud of the girls. It doesn't matter if they didn't get the visa, just to create a hope for other girls and other families that we can continue the steam program in Afghanistan.

And unfortunately, it didn't work. But when President Trump approved, and the first person who recognized us of the Afghanistan team was Afghan administrator in D.C., and made a very very responsible to him, and he wrote that he's proud of our team, and he came to airport, and I think also a deputy on the Secretary of the State Department

also joined, and then, yeah, the girls' men came here to the airport, when they arrived, they're just surprised with all of this media and all the attention everyone's coming. And I think that was quite very, very proud moment for Afghans or I think

it's supposed to changing. For centuries, women's ability was ignored. Not only women, even our voice getting ignored by our community, our societies, our government. And but now, no, it

didn't. And then when they got back, President Ashafgani is on the car, and they meet with President Ashafghani and First Lady. They meet with Chief Executive Dr. Abdullah. They meet with former President Kaisi. They meet with the ministers. They meet with the parliament representative. And everyone's happy and proud of them. And it was for the first time that the girls from Afghanistan participated in science and technology.

It's something that it never happened in the centuries and past. And, and I mean, I feel that, oh my God, something's changed. They are become as a symbol of hope, but they become as a symbol of unity. And these girls bring a light in the heart of the Afghans. Of course, we got a lot of threads by a conservative. But I see also the men in our community, especially in Harad, they jump in and stand with the girls. And it's never happened in the past. I mean, if a woman get threats by local and conservative,

local Taliban or by Taliban or conservatives, usually you can see less people wants to be involved to support. But for these girls, we saw that this happening. Yeah, and it's interesting that it was a 180, like, just over such a brief time period. Yeah, and it's just, I mean, I was, like, surprising, reading the comments and treating that how many Afghansmen support. And they say that they are proud of these girls. And the great thing is that I feel that now our leaders,

our people believe the woman's ability in the science and other technology. So this is very important for us. And now I hope that the hear our voice are lit, not only for the female, the young girls, but also for youths, for men, for the boys as well, to give them an opportunity that they can change their lives and you can design created things that they can change their lives and dear communities. So this is very important.

So actually, I want to go back to Bitcoin. I know you're not using it right now. Why not? And tell us what you're thinking about, maybe a token. Well, actually, I personally use the Bitcoin. I run on Bitcoin's and we do the trades with Bitcoin. What do you use it for to, like, hey, your sister? I mean, with my sister, Laughan, I do the trades and then using the Bitcoin at Ethereum, we invest it.

We lost a lot of personality. You mean, like, you're trading. Yeah, trading. My sister are doing it. She's doing it. She was also the first teacher to teach the kids how to wear bitcoin. And we lost a lot of, but I have to say that with the Bitcoin, we lost a lot of money as well, because the price goes up and down. but now what we believed on the Bitcoin, so we keep some of our Bitcoins.

But now we decided that to working on a new concept, because this is a woman who started a business, so what's the next for them? They have to sell their product. And still, the banking has this issue. And it's very difficult to buying and selling to the online banking system in Afghanistan, with a lot of proprosian procedure that they have. So we are going to start again.

new platform is online marketplace that this woman, all this skills that we have in our program plus the other business women that they can participate in the platform. And they can sell their goods online and buying the goods online and they will use the Bitcoins in this platform. And we also provide training. It's not only for just sell and buy. This platform also provided training for the females,

but what's the market. It's what's new in the markets and all the news about business, marketing, and everything is provided. And then this one has a platform that they can communicate. Do business together, do partnership, or do meet-up places. So all this is what are going to happen to this marketplace. And it's good things that coming here at a blockchain summit at Nekhaland, such a lucky I am. is that to hearing the others, like everyone's here has a beautiful story.

You know, they have very inspiring a story that they're working in different technology and using the blockchain and bitcoins for different industries. And I got some of an idea that we wanted to implement in our marketing place or Afghan marketplace. That hopefully when I back and I'm trying to make some partnership and visually are to be for that we will be able to to make this happen in Afghanistan because

we can simply use for giving loin, social loin to the women's to be P2B in this platform that the woman can start your businesses and get a loin with a loan yeah and then we can also using the blockchain for technology of insurance

for this women so they can send the products outside of the US outside of Afghanistan but using the insurance for the protection of hair jewelry or whatever they build it. So there are lots of technology that exist in blockchain that sometimes we don't aware, but in such kind of the amazing habits we can learn about others and how we can collaborate it. Right, but you were saying also because you were saying that you might use Bitcoin, but then you also said some people suggested to you to use your own token.

Are you not sure? We are trying, yes. We went to Singler University. two weeks ago and I talked with the students there and we discuss about this platform and some of them such as that why you don't use your own coins, building your own coins. So we are working on that as well to see that if we can building our own coins in this platform or we're using Bitcoin. So this is two things that we are still trying to figure out that which one is better for us.

Bitcoin has a value. So that's important about Bitcoin. it has a value. It could be for any things that we can use that. But if we have our own coins, it's also much easier, and it would be coins to support women, and that would be in the platform, and we can easily work with that.

But we have to work on the concept and figure out that, what is the best for us to use. And I have to mention that the marketplace is not going to be only for Afghanistan, but it will be as a pilot project for Afghanistan, because this digital sim funds has programmed Mexico, Brazil, and other countries that we wanted to try to make it a bright. I mean, bring it to other countries as well, to help the women that they are in the business. This is mostly for small,

small businesses and medium-sized businesses that they can support them. Well, this is amazing. I'm so excited that I got to meet you and to learn about your work. So where can people learn more about you and also get in touch with you? This has some phones as our website. We have to update it, but it's our website that they can learn about our projects. And that's digital citizen fund.org? Yes, dot org. And then I am, I can, they can find me through tweeters, my email other sister. And I'm always trying to respond to email fast.

And yeah, I mean, that's, we have a Twitter account. We have a website that they can contact with us. And I wanted to get the opportunity to announce one of our project. to support digital some fund. It's a new initiative that we started. It's called DigitalSizam Bru. We created a coffee and a tea that we bring a spice from buying the spice,

special spice like saffron from Afghanistan and from our students that are working on the farms. And we brought it, and we will bring it to US and then we bring this coffee from Central America. We made a very delicious blending of this formula of the farm coffee. It's very good for depression, for the health, for the heart, and as well, it's a

unique product that support educational technology access for developing countries. That women have the ability to learn about new skills and they can get their financial independence. Okay, great. Well, that's so exciting. Thank you. I will check it out. Thank you, Roya, for coming on the show. Thank you very much for having me here. Thanks everyone for joining us today. If you're interested in learning more about Roya, check out the show notes, which are available on my Forbes page. Forbes.com slash sites slash Laura Shin. Unchanged comes out every other Tuesday. Please share the podcast with friends and on social media. And remember to review, rate, and subscribe to it in iTunes or your preferred platform. Thanks again for listening.