Unchained - Is Hunter Biden's $LAPTOP Coin a Scam? He Says the Wallets Prove It Isn't

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

Hunter Biden walks through the $LAPTOP launch, when thin liquidity sent the token to a $317 billion market cap in a minute, and why he says it isn't a scam. ======================================================== Thank you to our sponsor! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Visit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 1inch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to swap tokenized securities, crypto and more. Simple. Secure. Self-custodial. Whatever asset you’re buying - swap it at⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 1inch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ======================================================== Quick favor: We're deciding what Unchained does next; new shows, stream times, what's worth paying for.⁠⁠⁠ Our listener survey⁠⁠⁠ takes five minutes, it's anonymous, and I read the write-in answers myself. Everyone who takes it can enter a drawing for a free year of Unchained Premium or Bits + Bips Premium. Open through Sunday, October 18. — Laura ======================================================== In June, Hunter Biden replied to a small account on X that "fiat is a sham" and the banking class is corrupt. His next move was $LAPTOP, a memecoin he says has the opposite tokenomics of the $TRUMP token. Hunter joins Laura Shin to trace his path into crypto, from the UN World Food Programme’s digital wallets for refugees (originally covered on Unchained in 2018) to The Internet of Money. He walks through $LAPTOP's first minutes, when a market maker seeded about $5,000 of liquidity and the token briefly showed a $317 billion market cap, and answers critics who call it a scam. He also lays out the token's prediction market burn mechanism, argues the Clarity Act died because the administration wouldn't bend on ethics rules covering the Trump family, and challenges Elizabeth Warren for siding with the banks. Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained Guest: ⁠⁠⁠⁠Hunter Biden - Artist, Author, and Recovery Advocate Timestamps 🎨 01:26 How a blockchain-related initiative at the UN World Food Programme led Hunter to crypto 🏛️ 07:34 Why Hunter says most Democrats only know crypto through Trump's 'grift' 💧 12:47 1inch Aqua: See how LPs back multiple positions with one balance at http://unchainedcrypto.com/go/1inch-yt 💻 13:46 Why Hunter launched $LAPTOP and what he says went wrong at its debut 🔍 21:14 Hunter answers critics who call $LAPTOP the scam he accuses Trump of 🎲 23:52 How $LAPTOP's built-in prediction market burns tokens or funds charity ⚖️ 33:35 Hunter's case against World Liberty Financial and the Trump family business 🗳️ 46:47 Can Democrats revive the Clarity Act if they take back Congress? 🏦 50:01 Why Hunter can't understand Elizabeth Warren siding with the banks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I don't want this to be personal at all. But Elizabeth Warren basically is taking the side of the banking industry. Like what? Like what? Like, what are you talking about? Like, so, I mean, I don't get it. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Unchained.

You're no hype resource for all things crypto. I'm your host, Laura Sheen. Thanks for joining this pre-recorded live stream. And first we'll take a quick word from the sponsors who make this show possible. This episode is brought to you by One Inch Aqua. the shared liquidity layer from one inch, back multiple liquidity positions with one wallet balance, and keep your tokens in your wallet until a swap fills. See how it works at one inch.com slash aqua. Before we get started, I want to ask you for something. We're making a bunch of decisions right now about unchained.

What we make next, when we go live, what we should be doing more of, and I'd rather hear from you before we make them than after. So we put together a survey. It takes just a few minutes. It's anonymous. And there's a box. where you can tell me what we could be doing better. I read all the responses. The link is in the show notes, or you can snap the QR code on screen, or go to unchained crypto.com slash survey. Thanks. Today's guest is Hunter Biden, artist, author, and recovery advocate. Welcome, Hunter. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you. So as far as I can tell, Your foray into crypto was a tweet reply in June to someone who at least currently has about 2,000 followers. You knows how many they had at that time.

And this person asked you, quote, thoughts on the entire fiat and financial system being unicorn fart dust? And he responded, fiat is a sham. The banking class is corrupt. Decentralized digital currency and the blockchain are the inevitable future. And the incumbents will fight it to the death. So before this, no one knew you were interested in crypto whatsoever, at least not in the crypto community. So given the relationship your father's administration had with crypto, suffice it to say people were pretty shocked and surprised. So what's your origin story with

crypto? How did you fall down the rabbit hole, as they say? Sure. What began with me as a strange entry point, which I was the chairman of the board of an organization. organization called the U.N. U.S. UN World Food Program, which is the largest humanitarian organization in the world. And they're responsible for feeding over, I think, 75 million people in 80 different countries. And they're the first responders to any disaster, whether it's manmade or a natural disaster. And so we dealt with an enormous number of refugees. And those refugees come into communities or neighboring countries. and by virtue of our generosity through the United States government and through the UN and other nations that contribute to the World Food Program, they end up cannibalizing economies that can't afford to be cannibalized. And so we had started a program at that time at the World Food Program, but the UN portion of the World Food Program started a program to create digital wallets for people.

because what we found is the ubiquity of cell phones among even refugees and the ability to transact digitally. And to do so on a micro level. And we extended that out to places like Kabira and Dadaab and to other what were former refugee camps or fifth generation refugee camps. And then to subsistence farmers that were able to enter into a kind of a global economy that they had been locked out of because of the international banking system. And so I then handed a copy of a book called The Internet of Money, and I became kind of a, at least I felt like I got a better understanding through the eyes of someone who is a kind of a Bitcoin Messiah, but more than that. anything learned about the blockchain. And I think I'll be proven, right? I think that blockchain as a technology and as a tool is the future. And, you know, obviously what I said about that saying fiat currency is a sham is a provocative statement in one way. But fundamentally, it's not a very

provocative statement at all. Historically, if you look at for instance, the U.S. dollar, and I know these are kind of like, you know, traditional talking points for people in the crypto space, for at least people to think about this, is that U.S. dollar in and of itself has lost, what, 97% of its values since 1913. And any country and any government that can print money at will, or excuse me, print currency at will, it's fundamentally is not any real relationship to money, to anything that is real. So at the same time, obviously, central banks and what they have been able to do of the course of the last, you know, 150 years in the United States is potentially save us from depressions and major recessions. But if you just look at what happened in 2008, I mean, we printed trillions of dollars.

And we have this sticky inflation now that everybody just bakes into the idea of what fiat currency. is. So there's that piece of it. The second piece of it that seems to me to be not a very controversial statement is this idea that I just fundamentally disagree with that cryptocurrency is kind of a cesspool for nefarious actors. It allows for criminal behavior just by virtue of the tool. I'm a believer in this. I think a hammer can be used to build or it can be used to destroy. And just like that, the blockchain, cryptocurrency, is a tool. And it depends upon whose hands it is just like any technology, just like any institution. And I would say this, is that if you want to look for criminal behavior, I'd start with the incumbents. I would start with the

banking industry and the history of the banking industry, and particularly history of the banking industry in my lifetime and the way that it has operated, not just to, exclude entire swaths of populations from being able to enter into the global economy, but also in the way that it moves money on behalf of really, really bad people. So that's where I came into it. And what year was that? Well, at beginning and I think with the World Food Program all the way back to like 2015, 16, 17.

I didn't lead the Internet of Money until probably. probably 24. But yeah, but that was my kind of introduction to it all. Okay. Yeah, I think I might have even discussed that UN program on my show. I definitely at least met somebody who was working with that. Yeah. But yeah, what's so interesting to me is that essentially then there was a period where

you held these views, but privately. And so I'm sure when you kind of came out of the closet about your views that you knew in advance that that would. put you at odds with at least, I don't know, potentially the majority of the Democratic Party. So I'm curious, you know, once you went public with these views, what the response was from them and what, you know, how you responded back. Yeah. Well, number one is that I didn't, I mean, I, I, I didn't have, I kept my views about a lot of things to my, while my dad was president. Because I think that's, that's the role of

a son or family member when their, when their father or their brother, their, their, uncle or whoever may be, is the president of the United States. I didn't have a job in the administration. And I didn't ever want to be perceived as speaking on behalf of the administration, particularly when I disagreed with it. It's just not appropriate in any way. And involving yourself in industries while your father is president is also just not appropriate in any way. And so I say it out of everything in the White House. I literally paint it for four years. And I continue to paint. And it's a passion of mine that's beyond just a passing thing. I've done it my whole life. And that's how I, you know, put food on the table over the course of that time. I don't think it is in any way shocking or,

you know, I know that he doesn't care what I think about cryptocurrency. But I don't think that anybody, the truth of the matter, I'm not an elected official. I don't intend on, I'm not, no intention I'm running in anything. And I also think this. I think so much of the reaction of the Democratic Party, I can't speak for the administration. I think that they were wrongheaded in many respects, but I can't speak about it specifically, and I don't want to, because I don't want to criticize. Let's talk about now. I think so much of the reaction to the Democratic Party comes from, number one, a kind of fundamental ignorance. And I don't mean that as a, in any way, a slight or an accusation, or I'm not putting anybody down. I don't think it's a willful ignorance. I

I think it's just a, it's also new to them. And their only introduction to it has been through Donald Trump's grift. The only introduction to it has been is to be in opposition to it purely on a, I mean, of the vast majority of Democrats. I'm not talking about the people who have sunk their teeth into this issue for years. I'm talking, though, about the vast majority of Democrats. They don't know, they don't listen to this show. They haven't read anything about cryptocurrency. And it's not because they're stupid.

It's just because they think that they're big things going on. And so they kind of take the talking points of the people that are on the committees that have a leadership role. And all they have to hear is this is World Liberty Financial and a $450 million investment from Abu Dhabi. All they have to hear is about Don Jr. And what they're, I mean, look what I just read about, you know, the control of the currency and Coinbase and the, and what they did with, uh, uh, were really financial in terms of the banking industry. I mean, every single touch point that Donald Trump has, has come into cryptocurrency, has been purely as a max, max extractor and for the benefit of him himself.

And not for the community, not for cryptocurrency as a whole, not for the policy. We didn't get, listen, think about this. You can blame the Democrats for, for not passing the clarity up. But the reality is, the reason we didn't get. the Clarity Act is because the administration refused to bend on the ethics laws as it related to them and Trump's family personally. That's the single biggest reason that we did not get the Clarity Act from my estimation. And so it may have shocked some people. I don't think that the truth of the matter is that most Democrats pay attention to the issue. And the reason that I got involved

and the reason that I launched a coin was to get them to start to pay attention to the issue. I created a coin and a token that is the exact opposite tokenomics of the Trump token and the Melania token and all of the other things that they have created to show that you can do this the right way and you can do it in a way that potentially builds community and potentially builds an audience and to do it for all the right reasons too is that you know I mean a meme token is a joke that's the whole point about it it's a troll it's the ability to attract attention and to be able to sustain and maintain that attention over time and potentially benefit community. So that's why 50% of my coin is dedicated to community and not to me.

And instead of 80% of the coin being to insiders, 30% of the coin is being to insiders, of which not a single token that has been touched and will not be touched until the vesting period starts six months from now or five months from now. Yeah. So in a moment, we'll talk more about laptop. but first we'll take a quick word from the sponsors who make this show possible. $540 million. That's how much concentrated liquidity sat idle in a given week in the first half of this year.

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The link is in the show notes. Back to my conversation with Hunter. So as you mentioned, you recently launched laptop, which is your meme coin. Explain why, well, I guess you started to explain, but expound a little bit more on why you decided to launch a meme coin. Was it purely to troll Trump or was there, like, expound on that? Okay. So, yes. One of the principal reasons, one of the legs of the stool was purely to troll Trump.

troll Trump on that exact idea, that he entered office and he made promises, you know, similar to the promise that he made that he was going to end the war in Ukraine on day one, or that he would, you know, never, no more new wars. And, I mean, I could go down the list. And one of them was that he was going to be, you know, the crypto savior and the crypto king. And it turns out is that he not only is not, but he is, I think, done more damage to this community than good by a long shot. And I think that the cardinal sin of what he did is not just purely the max extraction, but who it came from. And it came from his most devote in hardcore followers.

And he literally took the money out of their pockets and put them into his. directly. And I just, I can't believe that a sitting president in the United States, let alone anyone would do that. And so I started to think about it and I started to talk to people about it. And I said, could we build a coin that was virtually unrugable that could, that is not max extraction, where we could give an enormous percentage of the coin literally away to people, where we could devote a portion of it to charity that would not, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, so negatively impact the liquidity of the coin and the cell pressure on the coin that you could really give potentially millions of dollars away to the things that I care about in the

recovery and addiction space. And we did. And in conjunction with Coinbase, which we believe that we were going to have a day one listing with, we did that. And what ended up happening was, is that there was a major error. We had three market makers. I'm a confidentiality and I can't say which of the market makers, but it's all on the blockchain. Well, it's actually, it's in the disclosure on the website. So people can read it. I read it. Yeah. So go ahead and read it. And the point is this, is that instead of putting in, they had 30 million tokens and 15 million that were dedicated to the decentralized exchange, which were where we had to launch. We knew that there was going to be an enormous,

amount of interest in it, or at least attention to it, and that it would attract, you know, both real and potential and not investors, but interest in it and also snipers and bad actors. And instead of putting in the adequate amount of liquidity, which would have been around anywhere, I thought it should be around 25% of the available token and cash that enhance. They put in $5,000 out of the $1 million that was available and or $500,000 in real money. And it put in 29,000, just approximately 29,000 tokens instead of 5 million tokens. And so a $6 purchase in those first seconds, a buy increased the market cap of the coin by 5% and then just do the exponential math there.

And within one minute, the coin went from where we launched at a $50 million FDV to $317 billion market. Which obviously is pure fiction and is not related to any real money in any way. And then within minutes, it dropped back down. And now it trades around between, you know, seven cents, eight cents, 70, 80 FDV, and, you know, which we're up from our launch site. But it gave the impression of this not just Christmas tree. of Mount Everest in those first minutes. And from my perspective, it was just a incredibly poor decision

or a mistake or, you know, a negligence on the part of the, of a market maker. And, and, and they, they, you know, internally have admitted that. But we've been, we got back on track. But getting back to your question of, of why, I also believe this.

I saw the way in which the entire industry, cryptocurrencies a whole, had been kind of held hostage by this administration, and not just by the administration, but literally by its family, and the way in which they treated this. And I thought they were doing an incredible disservice. But I also saw this. I saw the power of the industry in a, which I always thought was at best libertarian, but at, but certainly nonpartisan up until that last election. And I think that they had a, an outsized impact on the way in which people viewed Donald Trump. They, they, they, they, I don't know this. When I go out and talk now, if you're between the ages of 18 and 35, then you, like, I can talk, I can have this conversation with you.

And you understand it better than I do in many ways. And you're engaged. You understand that there's no real value in a mean point. There's nothing. I mean, it's like, you know, I mean, it's like a Pokemon card has more value in the cardboard and ink. Like, it really does. I mean, it's a collectible, but it's an idea. And it connects people.

And it has connected people. And there are things that you can do that I still believe that you can build. That it doesn't have to be this celebrity, you know, max extraction, you know, political token BS. And I wanted to be the person to be able to do that because I find the audience incredibly interesting. And one of the reasons I find them so interesting is how they connect to me with my own narrative. And the reason to call it laptop was that is me reclaiming my narrative. And I've found that an inordinate number and population of the people that call themselves DGens and, you know, crypto Twitter and they're awful to me and they're mean. But I get it.

And I get it because I think that they are dumped upon by the mainstream so much, so misunderstood in their own lives and in what they think is the wider mainstream community dismisses them and dismisses the way in which they connect with each other as being. fake or a grift or not real. And I just think that's bullshit. And I wanted to be able to have that discussion and to be a part of that and to enter into it in a way that was additive rather than extractive. Yeah. I mean, you said so many things there that makes sense to me, like, you know, about reclaiming a negative that was kind of a moment that was a negative moment in your life. that is something that really resonated. But of course, as I'm sure you know, there are people who they look at what you did and they say, well, he's saying that he's trolling Trump, but he's also doing the same thing.

You know, I saw this was an account that had 18 followers who tweeted at you. And this account said, you criticize Trump for doing a scam, then doing yourself. So this account with 18 followers got almost, 4,000 likes for saying that. And I was wondering how you respond to those critics. Okay, well, here's how I respond to that. Look at the blockchain. All you have to do to see if it was a scam on my part is look, every wallet is completely transparent. You can see the exact tokenomics of it, and you can see that the 300 million tokens that are part of the founders portion of this token have never moved and are not going to move. And there's

the vetsing schedule and you can go read the Michael report and you can go to the website and you can see every single wallet. You can see how much the foundation has. Not a single dollar has come out of the foundation into the pockets of any of the insiders, quote unquote insiders in this. It is me and two other individuals and that's it. Both of them are Americans. And I stand by this with an enormous amount of pride in what we built and embarrassment in the and the regardless of whether it was a market maker's fraud or not. It's my responsibility. And I don't know how I would have dealt with the black box with market makers. And you can probably tell me more about that industry than I could tell you myself and my own experience. But that was outside my

control. As soon as that we were able to get into control, we got it under control. And I have been completely transparent about it. So I would say to that account with 18 followers, where's the scam in that? I haven't put it, but I haven't put a, I haven't put a, I haven't put a, a, I haven't put a, a penny in my pocket. And if you're telling me that anybody, if the value of a token is completely dependent upon, the ability to attain, sustain, and maintain attention,

then you better hope that there are people like me that build a coin going forward that actually has tokenomics and transparency in the way that I did. Otherwise, everything becomes a pure max extraction play in this industry. And so I just challenge them, go look and continue to look. And not only watch what I do, but excuse me, what I say, but what I do and what happens on the chain, because it's all there. Well, you mentioned earlier that there's a lockup of six months for the portion allocated

to you and other founders. So what are your plans at that time? Well, we'll see. We'll see where the coin sits, but there's a linear vesting schedule that goes out over 18 months. And what we did with this coin was the first ever coin and innovation that I think is really, really actually cool. We build in a prediction market into the token. And that prediction market makes three, excuse me, 30 predictions that go out over a two-year period of time. Actually, it's through 2029, parts of 2029 in which we predict i predict well democrats win the midterms did i mean from from political things the things having to do with bitcoin hits an all-time high to zcash to you know look uh i mean a whole bunch of different ones in the crypto world and then just fun ones which were like

my team eagles win their their home you know the the opening game and when that happens if the if the prediction comes true uh we bring earn tokens. And if it doesn't come true, that percentage goes to charity. And there's a 5% minimum of charity, but obviously by the numbers, it could go up to 35, not now, because some of the things that predictions have already come true. So it could go up to, and probably around the range of like 5 to 12 to 15% of the token to charity that will not create cell pressure because it vests on the same schedule that we are on. And so the predict. market in and of itself sends the life and the attention of the token out for two years.

And so it's not like, oh, six months come, I go like this and walk away. I'm in it because I'm in it because the token has a lifespan that's much longer than that. And here's the other thing is that, you know, it's not like this is some kind of niche industry. It's not like, and I think this is the way some Democrats and other people think about it because they don't take the time to kind of try to at least be able to figure out the like the fundamental pieces of what this is. There's 10 million meme tokens. I mean, there's over 10 million. There are how many hundred millions of people have crypto wallets between your finance, Coinbase, Robin Hood, Revolut, O KX. I mean, like, it's like, it's not as if there are not a

huge adoption of a, what's the percentage of Americans right now that have a, uh, a, uh, crypto in some form or another or crypto wallet on an exchange. Do you know that number? I don't for recent times, but I think when I researched it a couple years ago, it was like 20% or more, like 20, 30% around there. Exactly. And we in the Democratic, because I'm not the we of this, but people in the Democratic or of my political persuasion or in my age and in my demographic. We act as if it's like some like, you know, like, you know, like it's like a alternative world where, you know, but it's like what if one out of every five people? I mean, what are we talking about? And by the way, and how offensive to that one out of five

people when you say what they're doing, what they're engaging in is not just stupid. Literally, these are kind of the words that they use, but it's a sham. It's a, it's a grift. It's all a big lie. Bitcoin's going to zero. The blockchain is bullshit. The whole thing. And I'll tell you, I just think that how short-sighted? How completely ignorant do you have to be to not understand the value of the blockchain, just that alone in the A of AI. And being able to figure out what is real and what is not real in the world of the most widespread misinformation and disinformation in human existence. And so anyway, now I'm just, that's why I got involved with the token. And then when I see involved, it's mine. That's the other thing. I don't think anybody that's come out here that's had, I mean, I had a disastrous first hour of the launch of this.

But the rest of it, I'm very proud of. And I'm very proud of my team. I'm very proud of the people that help me build this. I'm very proud of the, and I'm going to stay in it until my, be, you know, until the end. Yeah, no, I agree with you about the prediction market mechanism. I think it's really interesting and novel. One other part of the tokenomics that I liked was that some of the airdrop is going to go

to people who have a loss on buying the Trump meme coin, which I thought was funny. Another part of the troll. But, you know, I'm sure you're aware that, yeah, you have gotten a lot of criticism. for it. And so I am also curious, there's so many ways to participate in crypto. So, you know, why did you choose this out of the other potential options? Well, because I think that it was the most effective apples to apples troll that I could do as it related to Trump. And I will tell you one thing is while I did not speak on behalf of Democrats. I don't speak how many have a I don't speak on behalf of any partisan political party. And, and, and, and, I, I don't speak on behalf of

any partisan political party and and no intention to. But I do, I will say this. I think that Donald Trump and everything that he does is an existential threat to a constitutional republic that we live in today. And I know that I'm not winning many fans in in crypto world, but I think people are waking up to that. I think that particularly independents are people that aren't just registered independence, but independent thinkers. which I always believe that the crypto community was independent thinkers, and that they're waking up to that. That there is a, the threat that he opposes to the promise of our Constitutional Republic is profound. And so the trolling piece of it played a big, big role in why.

And here's the other reason is that I don't come to this with institutions. unconstitutional backing or a bank roll of my own. I don't come to this in the idea that I have a, you know, a portion of some kind of wealth that exists in my life that I'm going to, you know, put, you know, put all in with Michael Saylor or, you know, buy Bitcoin at the diff. And so to me, this is the way to be able to talk to the community most directly and to do it in a provocative way and that would get an enormous amount of tension. And it has.

I mean, one thing is true. It's gotten a lot of attention. And if that's the coin of the realm, so to speak, is that I think that I have a real shot of turning around a bad launch in a way that is productive and secures the intent of the reason. And how do you plan to turn it around? Well, look, I think one of the ways that we turn around is that we kind of reimagine the launch of the token. We still have the events going. Hopefully that we, as we get away from that kind of disastrous launch, we can sign up some more of the centralized exchanges, which we're working towards. And, you know, I mean, it all depends, too.

I think the rising tide lifts all boats. We'll see what happens to the industry as whole. into, and, you know, I mean, if, if we see a bull market, then, you know, hopefully we can get back on track. And here's the other way. It's just to keep talking about it, to be going out there. I mean, I, the only thing that I can do is talk to you and push back on Twitter. I do get frustrated with crypto Twitter a little bit, though, is that they, they went, I mean, look, man, I, look, I am at one point in the last six months. I was given the crown of the king of trolls myself.

So I get it. Okay. I like, I kept the thing. But man, oh man. I mean, I understand their profound skepticism about anybody that's getting involved.

But I, what I should have done is I should have spent a lot more time talking about it before I did it. So that they could at least know that I don't come to this. like somebody, you know, somebody, you know, met me at a, you know, dinner party and said, hey, can we slap your name on something and see what happens? That is the exact opposite how this happened. And I met somebody at a dinner party. I'm going to say, hey, I want to learn everything I can know about this.

I want to be able to figure out because I have an idea and I want to execute on it. And, you know, and I spend an enormous amount of time trying to, understand, learn the community, but also learn the technology, learn the language, and to learn how it could be done the right way. Yeah, I mean, so you didn't tweet about crypto very much before you launched it, but for sure you clearly understood the lingo is the best way I can put it. That's how it read to me. Yeah, yeah.

Okay, but before, so just in the interest of time, so you started. to talk about your beef with Trump when it comes to how he's used the office of the presidency and relationship to the family's business ventures in crypto. And you recently tweeted that Trump family's business, World Liberty Financial, is corruption at a scale we've never seen. And you went on to describe the legal battle between Justin's son and World Liberty. You added that World Liberty is borrowing $75 million using its own token as collateral, which you pointed out is. similar to how FTX was operating before it collapsed. You talked about business transactions between entities in the UAE with World Liberty.

And then you said, we are now conveniently engaged in a never-ending war in the Middle East. So it sounds like you kind of have a grand theory of what it is that Trump is doing with the Office of the Presidency and his family's business dealings in crypto. So explain more what that is. Well, look, the fact of the matter is that it's all being done. done right before our eyes. I mean, the, the, um,

uh, maybe the only shocking part about it is, is how, um, transparent it is. And I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, if you go to each family member individually, okay, and you see what they have done that has been reported in the

public, take that, okay? And then take, the accusations that they made about me, even though I literally did no business other than sell paintings when my dad was president of the United States.

I made an average of about $200,000 a year, over four years while my dad was president, okay? Forget about the time before and all of the things they talk about. But if you believed every single thing that they said, okay, their accusations against me are literally not a patch on their ass. I mean, it is a, it is like a speed bump as compared to the Mount Everest of corruption that they are engaged in.

And what I mean by that, and what I say is like fundamental corruption, take for once instance, Jared Kushner is the special envoy to the Middle East. He's neither appointed. He's not elected. He is not a part of the government in any way that requires him to, to adhere to any of the ethics laws or any of the conflict of interest rules or any of the security analysis that goes into giving people top security clearance. He is being paid close to, and has definitely been paid, but being paid in fees just from the Saudis alone, close to $100 million a year. While he's negotiating the future of their relationship, with the rest of the world as it relates not just to the war in Iran, but to everything. How do you think that the Saudis is the first country ever, ever, to get nuclear technology

built on foreign soil with the help of the United States government as we fight a war supposedly over ending a nuclear program in Iran? Meanwhile, the Saudis are principally responsible. for 9-11. At least should have taken principal responsibility for the origins of what happened in 9-11 and some of bin Laden and in the destruction of the World Trade Center and the deaths of over 2,500 Americans

and everything that ensued after that. He's getting paid $100 million a year. And I always say, if you want to figure out where somebody interests lies, figure out who's paying them. That's just one example. Take the example of Don Trembuds. Trump Jr. Don Trump Jr. started a private equity venture fund right before inauguration with a

couple of partners. Who I understand are decent guys? Okay. And what do they do? They focused all of the underlying companies. They've gone from zero, okay, to over $3.4 billion of contracts with the Department of Defense. They got a $630 million loan guarantee, the largest loan guarantee ever out by the Pentagon to a private company. And that's just Don Jr. in one instance. And just one thing. Eric Trump has billions of dollars in real estate deals, not with individuals around the world,

not with people, with governments, with the Saudi government, with the Qatari government, with the Vietnamese government. And now he's in a fight with the Albanian government, or Jared's in the fight with the Albanian government for, you know, the island that they do. discovered. And again, I literally could do this for two hours. Jared Kushner's wealth since

2025 has increased by $16.5 billion. $16.5 billion, people. And that doesn't even touch what the concentric circles around it. Look what the Lutniks are doing as it relates to tariff-free funds. Look what is happening in the Department of Energy in terms of gatekeepers for nuclear technology coming from the United States to Saudi Arabia. Look what's happening in each one of these places. Look what happened in the Department of Homeland Security, the largest government agency in the country when Christy Knoem and Corey Lewandowski were there. And it continues to happen to this day, just under different leadership.

Everyone knows now that you have to pay a toll to get anything done in Washington, D.C., through this administration, from foreign policy to pardons to anything. And this is not me coming up with like some subjective, like I'm a Trump derangement syndrome. There's nobody there's a. And what they're counting on is people just not being able to like, like there's so many balls in the air that it's like people don't know what to do. I mean, I don't think the media has any clue as it relates to like what to focus on next. Do we do we focus on the jet that the Qataris gave them or do we focus on the ballroom? do we focus on the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the

hundred, uh, uh, stock trades that he did just in the first quarter of 2024, which by the way, is 3,400 more stock trades than every other president has ever done in the entire time of the presidency. Yeah. I've got a recent episode. I use the word shameless. Oh, that's, I mean, I, look, man, it is, it is, it is beyond shameless. And I don't know what happens. I don't know, but I do know this, is that I think, and people say that I shouldn't say this way, but I really believe it. It said, you know what, if you pay attention, if you pay attention to history, you know, the United States is beyond not perfect. We have a lot of shit over 250 years that we're not be proud of. But you know what the feeling always was, is that we were striving and then failing and striving to get better.

And not just as a fake, but people that were a part of it that elected and whether they became misguided when they were elected, maybe one thing. But most of the people we thought that went there did so because they were patriotic and they believed in the promise of America, right? At least that's what I've always felt my whole life. They made a lie out of that. And the way that they have made a lie out of that is this. is that I don't think that, and I don't think this is a hyperbolic or in any way,

a melodramatic statement. Donald Trump does not care about anyone. I mean this, not a anyone, but himself first. And that is not even, and if you can't figure that out by now, and I think some people thought that was funny and some people thought that's what makes you a man. And some people thought that what makes him tough. and he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and get away with it. That's because he's like, you know, like this Superman and its superpower.

But you know what it is? It is absolutely 100% an indictment of not just him, but us, is that we accept that. You cannot have somebody sit in the office that is supposed to be the caretaker that is supposed to sit behind a resolute desk, okay, in that oval office, simply as a caretaker, my house, your house, our house. It is not his. It does not belong to him. It is not for him paved over the Rose Garden without congressional approval and the consent of the American people.

Yet he does. And he does it every day. He reminds us, it's not ours. It's his. Yeah. Okay. I agree with pretty much everything you said. At the same time, just to put it all in context. Yeah. You know, I, so I'm, I'm not a fan of Trump. Yeah. However, I will say he has done a few really good things. And if he had not been elected, the U.S. would not be on a positive path to maintaining its lead in the financial markets and in the frontier of technology if it weren't for Trump. So I have to give him that. I have to give him that credit. The trajectory, that the Democrats had our country on was in completely the wrong direction. Yeah, Laura, here's what I would say to that.

Is it Mussolini that was, you know, had the trains run on time. You know what I mean? I really mean that. And I'm not saying that he's a fascist. Actually, I am. But my point is this, is that yes. And you know what you can do through an election? Is that you could elect someone and you could make it.

argument in a campaign that the Democrats have to get on board with that. They have to come to an understanding. They have to come to your position. And you can point to specific things in which Donald Trump, I always say this. I understand why people voted for Trump, the first time and the second time, because they're angry. And by the way, sometimes they're angry because of the ignorance and the arrogance of the Democratic Party and its leadership. And that is absolutely, looks down their nose at anybody who disagrees with them and acts as if they're just stupid and they don't know what the fuck they're talking about

or they're just greedy and they don't know them what's the problem about or they're racist or they're misogynistic or they're whatever and what they don't realize is this this people are fucking pissed off by the way across communities and everybody thinks that when I'm talking about it oh it's like some guy in Appalachia

you know what I mean that you know watched Fox News all day you know that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about the suburban couple that makes an average of about $750,000 a year. And they have three kids, all of them are going to college, all of them are going to private college, trying to figure out how to pay that,

pay the mortgage in two cars, and go on vacation, and can't figure out how it is that they basically are living paycheck to paycheck. And they're the top 1%, the top 1% of income earners, $750,000 a year. And it can't figure it out.

And so they look out there and you just see that it's more of the, same. It's always more of the same. And who ends up winning? Not us. It's not, by the way, not even the rich. You know who ends up winning? The wealthy. And what I mean by wealthy, I mean the top 0.5%. Not even. The top 0.01%. 984 and 488, I always get the numbers mixed up, families are billionaires in this country, true billionaires. Who do you think writes the tax law? they're not breaking the law they're not cheating us they're following the rules not a single one of them pays income tax not a single one of them and i wouldn't either if i were them because it's not in the

rules because they wrote them and you know who they wrote them with they wrote them with the head of the ways in the committee when he's a republican and a democrat they wrote them with the senate leadership when democrats were in charge and when it was the minority leader they wrote them with i and go down the list. So there has to be radical change and understanding of the way in which technology is changing our future. Part of that has to do with financial instruments, cryptocurrency, and the blockchain. And if you can't get someone that can start to understand that and have a can be conversant in it, then I say, you know what, don't vote for them. All right. So in the interest of time, we do have to go, but I just have to ask you a couple

last questions. So as you know, the Clarity Act died due to this political. fight over ethics. You know, it looks like perhaps the Democrats might take either the House or the Senate. I wondered, you know, what you thought they could or should do. And I don't know if you also are confused by the fact that essentially they voted to keep the status quo, which has no limits on him. So, yeah, just that's the first one. But try to keep it short. Yeah. The truth of the matter is, is that, you know, I don't know what will happen. I have a little bit of an understanding of just being in and around it and the way in which legislation moves through Congress and an administration.

I think it's going to be very, very difficult in the next two years to give the clarity act passed. And I don't mean by virtue of the fact that there's not going to be an enormous amount of interest to move it forward. but they're going to have so many more things on their plate that are important to Democrats and if Democrats take both and if they if they even if they didn't and they for instance you maintain one of the houses or I mean more likely if anything that would be the Senate but I think it's incumbent upon people like yourself like myself like myself like others that are not major kind of you know MAGA or conservatives or you know are ultra-conservatives that have a position on this to speak out to it and start to educate

people and realize that it's not their their lack of of willingness to come towards where you are comes from one thing and I really mean this I believe it for the vast majority of them comes from not being educated on it is not being is not having an understanding of it and it takes more and I and I applaud you for writing the essay but it takes more than an essay and they have to hear from, start to hear from their constituents. And they have to start to hear from people that, that will, that, you know, that are like real people to go in and say, hey, look, what, what about this? Well, what about this? Let me tell you something. One of the things, for instance, with the blockchain that I, that I first began to play around and start to understand and how it worked,

was because of art. You know, I mean, all of my art is on the blockchain. It is that, you know, What an incredible tool as an artist to have. I mean, in a world in which, you know, I can forever verify the authenticity of something once it leaves my hands. And it's even when it's in my hands. And so every penny of mine is a registered with Verasarton on the blockchain. I take cryptocurrency. No one has given me any Bitcoin yet, though. So if you're listening out there, I need to.

I got some really cool paintings right behind me here. There's about 50 of them. Unfortunately, I never sold any paintings as much as the New York Post said that I did. But they're really great paintings, though. Okay. Well, so I do also want to ask one other question about the Democrats in crypto, which is, I'm sure you know that in the fight over stable coins, it seems like the Democrats have been surprisingly aligned with the big banks.

This is yet another reason why I'm no longer a Democrat. But I wondered, you know, what your opinion. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. I mean, look, I personally like Elizabeth Warren as a person. And I mean, because I know her and she's in. I mean, I don't have a relationship with her, but she's always been very nice to me.

So I don't want this to be personal at all. But Elizabeth Warren basically is taking the side of the, of the banking industry. Like what? Like what? What like what are you talking about? Like so I mean, I don't get it. Like your first argument against cryptocurrency is the is the corruption argument? Is the idea of the nefarious and illicit actions that can occur by virtue of the anonymity of the blockchain?

And that's your argument? Like what the hell are you talking about? Like where's that where's that person from 2008 to point it out to us that literally the fucking entire banking industry robbed us of trillions of dollars and the only people that walked away from it were them were them i mean who paid we did and then what we did we want to know why fiat's a sham what do we do we printed trillions of dollars and who pays for that and inflation which is just an inherent tax that continues to go forward and forward and forward on american people who gets that money when it's printed and the value of that money first the people that get the value of that money

of the banks before the inflation hits. And so their value of money when it's printed and handed to them that they get to loan out is inherently more than what we get. And what do you do? I mean, and you're Elizabeth Warren and you're looking at the potential of a technology that frees people from that, that frees an entire globe from that, that frees an entire globe from 15% transaction fees to be able to send money to your people. family back in Ghana or in Mexico City or wherever else in the world or for subsistence

farmer to be able to bring their wheat to Nairobi to be able to sell sold on the open market. I mean, I don't get it. I don't get why. And maybe I'm fundamentally reducing her argument in a very unfair way. But if I ever got the chance to speak to her personally about it, that's what I would say. I feel like you pulled a script from my own dreams of my conversations with Elizabeth. You know, you and I both. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. All right. Well, Hunter, this has been so amazing chatting with you. But my last question is, so you tweeted hyperliquid, which I love that tweet. You tweeted about how Fiat is a sham. So I'm curious if you just, you know, have either certain crypto bags that you're holding or just certain coins that you think are interested. I'd be so curious to hear.

You know, what interests you when it comes to you? No, I don't. You know, I got to, let's see what happens in six months. And maybe I will have a little bit more, be more like truly interactive on my part in the space. But no, I don't. I don't. Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Well, I mean, this is the rebuilding phase. Okay. Okay. Well, we'll have you back on the show when you have one. have more to report. Absolutely. 100%.

All right. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing. And yeah, I just really. I really mean it. And I am not to be saccharin, but I really, really truly appreciate you taking the time to have me on to talk about this, to give me a chance to talk about it.

And hopefully to let people at least know that I don't enter this lately, this is not some fly-by-night operation in which I have not thought about what I'm getting involved in. And I have a lot to learn. And I get to listen to people like you that I think come to it all with a real intellectual, rigorous sense. So I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Well, thank you. And it's been a pleasure having you on Unchained. Thanks. Okay. See you. Nothing you hear on Unchained is investment advice. This show is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and my guest and I may hold assets discussed on the show. For more disclosures,

visit Unchained Crypto.com.