Unchained - Oslo Freedom Forum: How NFTs Helped Chinese Dissident Artist Badiucao Evade Censorship - Ep. 369

Episode Date: July 1, 2022

Badiucao, Chinese artist and activist, talks about the importance of NFTs for political activism, the role of China in his career as an artist, the significance of blockchain technologies to resist censorship, and much more. Show highlights: why Badiucao became an artist and how the censorship in China brought him to NFTs how Badiucao only learned about Tiananmen Square when he was 22 years old  why Badiucao took up work as a preschool teacher in Australia how anonymity is important for Chinese activists for their family’s safety the intention of Badiucao’s art and what is he trying to express the repercussions of Badiucao’s activism why Badicuao eventually gave up his anonymity why Badiucao decided to issue art as NFTs and what possibilities he sees in NFTs how Badiucao enabled people to write a message of protest in the blockchain with the launch of his NFT and how this represented the first large mass protest written into the blockchain whether the Beijing Winter Olympics is an outrage and a disgrace for the international community and how this inspired Badiucao’s NFT collection Beijing 2022 how Niki approached the issue of the possibility of having the art taken down how Badiucao used NFTs to help Ukraine due to the war the reasons political art has so much value, and how NFTs enable possibilities for all political artists around the world whether NFTs are much more than just some apes, and how learning about art is important how to get started as a political artist and the importance to remain truthful the significance of using power as an artist Thank you to our sponsors!   Crypto.com: https://crypto.onelink.me/J9Lg/unconfirmedcardearnfeb2021  Ava Labs: https://avax.network   EPISODE LINKS   Badiucao Twitter: https://twitter.com/badiucao Website: https://www.badiucao.com/   Niki Website: http://nikiselken.com/   Documentary about Badiucao: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10601676/   60 Minutes interview: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/badiucao-60-minutes-2021-12-26/   Unveiling his identity: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/04/world/asia/china-tiananmen-cartoonist-badiucao.html?searchResultPosition=1   The importance of NFTs How Activists are Using NFTs as Civil Disobedience: https://www.jumpstartmag.com/how-activists-are-using-nfts-as-civil-disobedience/ Nadya Tolokonnikova on NFTs with social messages: https://editorial.brytehall.com/nadya-tolokonnikova-on-nfts-with-social-messages-and-shock-value/ Unchained Coverage: This Noble Family’s Art Was Taken by Nazis, But Is Being Saved by NFTs: https://unchainedpodcast.com/this-noble-familys-art-was-taken-by-nazis-but-is-being-saved-by-nfts/ Unchained Coverage: Punk6529 on the Significance of Bored Ape Yacht Club and CryptoPunks: https://unchainedpodcast.com/punk6529-on-the-significance-of-bored-ape-yacht-club-and-cryptopunks/ Unchained Coverage: Why This Environmentalist Doesn’t Blame Creators for the Carbon Footprint of NFTs: https://unchainedpodcast.com/why-this-environmentalist-doesnt-blame-creators-for-the-carbon-footprint-of-nfts/   Beijing 2022 Collection https://www.badiucao.com/nft Badiucao launches NFT collection to protest against China's human rights record on eve of Beijing Winter Olympics: https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2022/02/01/badiucao-launches-human-rights-protest-nft-collection-on-eve-of-beijing-winter-olympics     NFTs for Ukraine Collection https://www.badiucao.com/ukraine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey all, this recording is from a panel I moderated at the Oslo Freedom Forum back in May. The panel was about the work of Badiou Cho, a Chinese distant artist who has used NFTs in his artwork. You absolutely must listen to this discussion. Barrio Cho is one of the most interesting and creative people I've ever interviewed, and the story of how he became the artist he is today is riveting. I think you'll also love the twists and turns in his journey to using NFTs and learn a lot from the challenges he and Nikki Selkin, the director of creative development. at Gray Area with whom he worked on his NFT projects faced. One other note, due to the upcoming holiday and the fact that after four months, I think my book tour and catching COVID and everything else that I've been doing in the whirlwind ever since I released my book has all finally

caught up to me. So there will be no weekly news recap today. Other than that, happy Fourth of July, everyone. And now on to the show. Hey, builders, looking for one of the best scaling solutions in crypto? That's easy. Avalanche's breakthrough subnet design lets you minimize transaction costs and maximize your speed, consistency, and user experience. To experience Web3 like never before, head to avox.network to learn more. With the crypto.com app, you can buy, earn, and spend crypto in one place.

Download and get $25 with the code Laura. Link in the description. Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for coming. So I had actually never heard of Buddy Tzu before being asked to do this panel. But I have to say, I was really taken by the kind of life story that brought him to his distant art. Especially for me, as an American, I remember as a teenager watching what happened on the screen, on, you know, the TV in my living room. or maybe it was my bedroom at that time, you know, what was happening in Tiananmen Square in

1989. And his experience of that, even though he was living in China, was completely different. So can you just explain that story and how that kind of set you off on this path to becoming an artist? Well, that's exactly why, you know, I want to entering different community, including the community of crypto brothers and sisters. I feel like now we are really leaving, in our own grids. Like, I can have a grade follower and the reputation from the dissident community, the new circles, the China-related circles.

But maybe I'll be completely strangers to the people who are into the cryptocurrency or NFD unless I bring my arts to the community to introduce myself. Well, the very reason for me to paying attention to NFD or the blockchain is because the very censorship that is happening in China. I grow up in China.

When the Tiananmen massacre happened in 1989, I was only three years old. So for me, I wouldn't have a real memory if no one from my life, like teachers, doctors, parents, schools, TV, publication mentioned that. And that is the reality in China.

So up until university time, I never have any idea that what happened in 1980s during the movement and the massacre in the end. I only know the event because I accidentally downloaded a pirated film from internet and there's someone inserted

a documentary about a Tiananmen's massacre into that pirated fire of film. And that's how I know it. And when I know it, I was only... I was already like 22. So in 22 years, nobody mentioned it. And when I'm watching those stories, students marching on the street, protests, and eventually gone down, crashed by tanks by the Chinese government.

I'm really shocked because I'm also in the university time. And like those young kids being killed by the government. However, in this gap, nobody filled this black hole for me. Nobody tells me what happened. And if not, for some genius doing their own things in the business. pirating film industry, I would never know it. You know, it's really shocking to make me angry that how the Chinese government can easily erase memory like that and just steal away from the people so that in the future we cannot

reflect on that. So in the future, we'll remain in the darkness. Yeah, and actually one comment I want to make on that is people know that HRF is really known for using technology in its work, and you may know that they have worked with sending flash drives into North Korea in this very same subversive way. So I actually find it so fascinating that the way that you discovered this historic event that is known around the world but happened in your home country was through something that was a very, very similar strategy to what HRF uses.

So the other part of your story that was so interesting to me was that later you went to Australia and I think most people in your personal life thought that you were like, a preschool teacher. So talk about that period of your life. So I actually started in a law school in China. Believe or not, there are still law schools in China. And when I grow up, because my family history, my great parents were actually like the first group of filmmaking in China. And they all got persecuted during a campaign against intellectuals in 1957. So for me, you know, this is a family listen. is don't be an artist, it's dangerous. Two is don't stay in China.

It can be dangerous in any time. So I end up going to Australia, but it's not easy to be an immigrant. You have to choose a major that's allowing to stay. And in Australia, nobody wants to be a teacher, especially a preschool teacher, because it's very hard work, it pays very bad. But that gives me a chance to stay. So that's why I choose to be a preschool teacher. I started my degree for education and kind of doing this detour.

for four years until I have the green card and started making art. And so talk about that period because you were not known as an artist at that time. There's an amazing documentary about Barriozal. And in the beginning, he is wearing a mask. And it's not the kind of mask we've been wearing in COVID. And you really were hidden. And I think, you know, during this conference, we've been talking a lot about privacy and you really like lived that lifestyle for a while.

Tell the audience a little bit about that, why you were doing that. You know, not like Banksy, you know, he is being anonymous for it's a commercial trick. For artists who want to seeking the truth from China, you have to hire yourself. Because once your identity is revealed, then your family will be harassed, then personally you will be putting into the danger. And I learned this in 2018. So from the first cartoon that I did in 2011 to 2018, I remain anonymous. I would not, you know, having a event like this. If I have to do a public, like a performance, I will have to wear a mask.

Actually, I have a whole collection of masks that I wear it for these seven years, and it was turned into insulation now exhibiting in Prague. Oh, wow. Yeah, they're like full-on mask that covers entire face. You can sort of see his glasses through them. But talk a little bit about the art that you started making. Like what were the messages you were sending and was your hope that people in China would see them? Or like what was your intention with that art?

I think as an artist, it's something very important that we want to express things. I do not just believe art should only for the sake of art. Art is a form of language. It's because you want to communicate with the people outside of China and inside of China. But I guess the difficulty that being an artist is a form of language. in China is you have to deal with the censorship. And this censorship is very hard to going around, especially when your language is written language.

Because in China, they have this huge internet censorship. It's called Great Firewall, and it's much based on words. So they have a database that goes through every vocabulary, like Tiananmen massacre, Nobel Peace Prize, or Badu Tzu Town by Aras name. They are all sensitive words. So if this was appearing in any sentence, we're taking down swiftly, however, I think, aren't providing this very unique chance

because every time we create a new image, we do not use the old language of vocabulary that we use in literature. So in that way, you know, the Chinese authority have to find this artwork, recognize it, understand it, log it, then delete it. So regardless how, you know, efficient they will be, there will always be a window for me.

as an artist to talking about those issues. And among these years, another, I think, silver bullet I found, is if you manage to kind of bonding a very political censored image with something very popular and lovely, like Winnie the Pools. I don't know how many of you knows, but online does it mean that compares Xi Jinping with Winnie the Pools. And then the Chinese society just freaked out. They're like, oh shit, we have to be serious.

this is the supreme leader right we have to take it down but when they take it down people ask questions because it's so common because it's so loved because it's so welcome and then every time you manage to do that you create a catch-22 for the authority because if they do not take it down then the joke goes on the power being diminished but if they take down people ask questions and whenever people are starting to ask questions you create cracks in this authority Yeah, and just a few other examples of some of the artworks. There was one kind of showing how it was when Xi Jinping, I guess, became, what was it, dictator for life or whatever, it's probably not that phrase, but that's, you know, what we would say.

And he did three portraits, and one, you know, looks just like Xi Jinping does now. And then one is of him, you know, older. And then the last one is like a skull. And then what did the phrase say? She forever, but actually I cheated it because I used to face app. Oh, okay. To make it look older. And then another one was like talking about China's influence in Australia,

and he showed the koala, you know, which is this symbol of Australia, with a painter painting it into a panda, which again, you know, is this kind of commentary on the influence of China in Australia. So in general, it sounds like... your career, you know, there's this blend of elements. It's like criticism of China, but also like trying to get around the censorship regime in there to get your message out. Oh, by the way, actually, before we go on, let's just explain to people how you made the shift from wearing the mask to now revealing your identity. What happened at that time? And then I'll go to my next

question. I think it's so hard to keep anonymous. I've managed to do it for seven years. But in 2018, I suppose, I have a very large especially in Hong Kong, and we were inviting like Joshua Wong and Pussy Rights to the opening. However, just three days before the show, my family in Shanghai got taken by the police to the police station, the National Security Police. So it means my identity got compromised at some stage, and the message was sending to me via my family saying that I have to cancel the show, as it was I will be in trouble, my family will be in trouble. Well, they also say they are going to sending the police to Hong Kong in 2018.

Now Hong Kong is a very different city because the whole national security law. But in 2018, Hong Kong still has its freedom and autonomous. It is kind of unsinkable. The Chinese authorities saying they're going to sending police to Hong Kong. So that makes everyone freaks out. And the show was actually canceled in 2018. But then the question was wrong to me. You know, obviously I can choose to stopping, making the art that I believe in.

In exchange, maybe I can have some extent of safety. You know, authority and dictatorship like that, they never forgive, they never forget. And also, if I'm giving up the art that I've been working on years and years, it's a betrayed of my own identity. And I do value myself in the artist. But the bottom line for artists, I think, is the freedom of speech, is that I do not compromise because of some pressure. I do not draw red lines in the creation. So I decided to reveal my face after half a year, and here I'm now, you know, how I look like.

So as I was saying earlier, you know, you see these themes of kind of trying to stick it to the regime in China, getting around the censorship. and also, you know, thinking about technology. Like, you know, I just love what you said about how the regime, the censorship regime is really built around the words. And so using images is such a powerful and, like, sneaky way to get your word out. So at some point, obviously, you ended up turning to NFTs, and now you've done two collections as NFTs. How did you stumble upon NFTs?

What problem did you think that solved for you? And, you know, why did you decide to issue some art as NFTs? Well, firstly, you know, when I firstly hear about NFT, I think it's a great idea. I do not see it as a genre or style of art. For me, NFT is a form of ownership that kind of authorize a possibility of original digital art. And for that, it really opens the door to all art and artists. And however, I think now it really goes into a kind of weird end that when you think about NFT, it's not a diversify word.

What do you think about it is those bought iPad and boring collection just repeating itself. For me, it's problematic, but the original, the possibility of NFD that also rise, the digital original version, or limited edition, is actually opening door to all artists

and all kinds of arts. And also, I think with my collaboration with Human Rights Foundation, and particularly with Gray Area, that give me a chance not just practice as an artist, but also knowing or exploiting this technology to extending my platform from just traditional social media, street art, gallery practice, to a new community.

And Nikki, can you tell us a little bit more about Great Area's role and helping him with the NFTs? Yeah, I met Vodachau, or gosh, over like a year ago and saw your work that was in the last year's Freedom Forum in Miami. It was a series of posters and ones you see above me. And I had seen your doc and other work of yours, but I decided that that would probably be the best set for us to launch as an NFT collection. And you and I had a lot of discussions about how that could be made interesting or activist, right?

Because many people are using NFTs for, you know, monetary gain. They're not thinking about them in a way that they're protest pieces. But what we decided to do was do a custom contract, which means that we wrote our own blockchain contract, where in which the participants who purchased an NFT, also the price was pretty inexpensive for them. They were allowed to write a message that was irrefutably written into the blockchain, a message of protest against the CPP. And so every single person who bought one of those NFTs, they minted them themselves, and that went into their crypto wallet and also an open sea, and those messages will live.

So in China, this is my favorite part about what we did is, first of all, it was the first large mass protest action written into the blockchain, which is the tech stack that runs crypto and NFTs. But the cool thing is that if China doesn't like something you do, for example, there is somebody who made a fake Bada Chow website that we try to take down. and other things, they do all kinds of stuff to discredit Baudit Chil all the time.

But they cannot turn off his artwork. They cannot turn off things that are listed into the blockchain, because the blockchain, as you guys, if you went to any of the talks before this, all those Bitcoin talks, they were discussing how it's a bunch of servers all over the world. It's a decentralized server network, so you can shut off all the servers in China like they did. They shut down all the Bitcoin servers,

but you can't shut off all the servers all over the world because they're everywhere. It's like playing whack-a-mole. And so what we did was make something that was pretty impossible just to stop and a message that can't be taken down. So I think that that was the power of what Bada Chow did in having hundreds of people

these NFTs and make protest messages against China. And just out of curiosity, do you remember any of the messages that people wrote? Yeah, there is a lot. I mean, some of them were just saying, solidarity to Bada Chow, take down China. There was some that were like longer and kind of poetic. But the issue is that they're actually written into the code.

So you have to kind of go into EtherScan and click decode and then it will reveal the messages. But the value of them is that they are written into the code. So they aren't. And also like you were saying, they can't just scan them as language because of the way they're encoded. So it's a really cool tech stack. And I love the idea of Badracha using blockchain. I know one of your mentors and folks you've worked with before who I think, did he win the Havel Prize? I Weiwei.

He was here for something. Yeah. Yeah. So he did a blockchain artwork, protest piece. Pussy Riot also did an NFT series. But nobody has done something like what Baduja just did. No one has done a protest message, NFD collection. So it was a really exciting experience.

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Scale with subnets. Head to avox.network to learn more. And can you just talk a little bit about the artwork that you chose, like what these images represent? Sure. Probably in the very beginning of this year, the most discussed China-related topic is this Winter Olympics is going to host in Beijing. A lot of us actually call it genocide Olympics

because it really disgrace the shame for the international community to allowing a country that have a genocide against Uyghur community ongoing and still have this chance to celebrate humanity. So I decided to launch this kind of fake advertisement for the games using each of the sport, but discussing about different human rights issues in China,

like the Uyghur genocide, the Hong Kong cracking down, the self-of- Tibetans, the very censorship in the early stage of COVID-19. And so I think this is the thing that the people should know. And also, people should know it because it seems like it's inevitable the Olympic world beyond. But at least we should use this as an opportunity to discuss. those works. And this is not just NFT. It was firstly released in Miami last year in the Freedom Form. Then it has merged as street art, it has merged as posters, all of the world,

a lot of major cities. And then the last step was also moving those works into the NFT world. And also the difficulty is it's very hard to exhibiting those works in a conventional venue. I just had a show in Prague last week it's opening and the Chinese government just calling the museum as well as the foreign minister's office of Czech Republic in order to kill the show. So this is the pressure that I'm facing in a conventional art venue.

But obviously, in the digital world, on the blockchain, the gatekeeper is much lesser. I think the Chinese influence is much lesser. So in a way that helped me to doging all those censorship and easily creating a new community that introduce those very important message to new groups and peoples. And do you have a sense of how much your art actually gets through to China

and whether or not when you use the NFTs of that had any kind of material impact on how easily people were able to see the images? Well, I think it has two stages. Firstly, we need to make sure it's still online, it's still accessible. And for traditional platform, yes, I can put it on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, even on Google. But we all know all those companies, more or less, have a history of a compromise. Google has its Dragonfly Project. Facebook, oh, come on, Mr. Mark Zagba is running in the Tiananmen Square

and pretending he really enjoys the bloody kind of air on that massacre site. So it's not stable. I do not think the traditional, even online space would be that safe. But for me, I think the cryptocurrency world, the blockchain, are providing some mechanism much stronger and safer than those conventional venues. So there's one criticism of using NFTs in this way, which, for those of you who understand the technology, actually what it is is kind of this indelible pointer,

but it's to a file that is stored elsewhere on the internet. And so, you know, just like any other file in the internet, it could technically be taken down. How did you address that issue? Well, one thing we did was it goes to something called IPFS, and that is a file storage system. So the record of your NFT is pointing back to that. And actually, because Badiqa is really interested in open access, you actually gave the files on Twitter for anyone to print. So people all have print quality files already. all over the internet, they've been distributed, and people printed them.

So one of the things I actually did for record holders and non-holders, anyone who joined our Discord, was create links to files and send multiple links through, I think, Google Drive and other ways for them to download, like multiple times. And so, you know, a lot of the protest activity that is going on, and just in general, like the crypto community and NFT community is going on through things like Signal, Discord, telegram, Twitter. So we are doing ad hoc and community organizing on the tech stack tools. And frankly, we're constantly jumping from tool to tool, depending on what's safest.

So we have a discord. We shared it through that. But also the other thing to keep in mind is that even if we lose the pointer to the actual file in China, the blockchain record with the protest statements are not images. and they are in the blockchain and they can't be deleted. And even if China wants to say, oh, I'm going to take down EtherScan, you guys remember, like, if you were anyone of any certain age, like how we used to have, like, we still have a Pirate Bay and Torrents

and all that stuff, and there'd always just be a new Pirate Bay, pirate bay dot, whatever, we could do the same thing, and the same thing does happen with EtherScan. So they'll just make a new website that points to the same files again and again and again. So in a way, the value, like I said again, of blockchain is that it's almost impossible to take down the actual servers holding the things. And then you can just keep making new domain pointers repeatedly from different locations to the same information, just like we've seen with like Torrance, you know. So I guess it matters, but it doesn't matter because it's so easy to distribute information using the technical tools we have today. Yeah, because EtherScan is basically just a website for looking at the Ethereum blockchain, which is indelible.

And it's sort of like, you could sort of think of it as you could use like Firefox or Chrome to look at, you know, some domain that you own or even like the New York Times website or whatever. So yeah, if either scan went down, no worries. Somebody else will create some other block explorer. So you actually did a second campaign using it. NFTs. Can you talk about that and why you chose to do this? And it's slightly different. The second drop was not that carefully planned because it's right start from the Ukraine war, you know, by the Russian invaders. So when the news outbreaks, I guess it's really hunting everyone around the world, especially the people in Europe. And I started to making

arts alongside the development of the invasion. And among the image, There are a lot of online means merged, like, this very famous sunflower seeds. The old lady, like, giving a handful of sunflower seeds to a Russian soldier said, like, well, at least when you fall down here, there will be sunflower popping out. So a lot of those very interesting and powerful elements has merged and become my inspiration. And I created a body of new work that is dedicated to the fighters from Ukraine as well as denouement. announcing the support from the Chinese government to putting the war. And now this work has been released as NFT on the super rare, as one-on-one works, and I'm going

to donate all the profit from the selling to the people in Korea. I mean, because of the NFT technology, because of the existing platform, it allows you to act this very fast. if you have to do an exposition and sell and an auction, it takes a long time in this way. We did it in two weeks, one week? Yeah. We did it in one week. And we've already sold thousands of dollars in Ethereum.

And we just sent one to, what was the group we just sent it to, that we were talking on Signal? Right. Actually, Ukraine government have, they posted their wallet to accepting cryptocurrency. Right on Twitter. It's like, send us your money right here. But we just worked with another aid group. We just sent another piece for auction from the collection, and we did it in like a week and a half.

Like that's unheard of in the art world, you know, and to make that kind of revenue directly going to aid someone. It's just, and it was just being a botched out, just like texting back and forth. So it's pretty inspiring, you know. I love it. I love it. It's super interesting. And do you plan to work with NFTs more in the future?

Definitely. I think, well, now, I guess most of people are kind of worried the market is crashing, but I think the ones crashing are those boring monkey heads. It's kind of a good thing. I mean, yeah, well, this evolves. And then, in the end of the day, you should see what's really valuable and meaning for. I mean, buying NFT is almost like buying two things. One is you're buying a piece of art, an image.

So firstly, you should understand the value of the art. For me, I think political art and art about our time particularly important because of course there are arts for the sake of art, they are exploring the sensory beauty, but there are also a history of world art that is talking about the most important issue in the time. It is like a footnote that of our history

and because of a certain regime like China, they're deleting almost every existing footnotes. And then the art become one of the voices can be lefted. So that is why political arts particularly has its value. And secondly, for NFT. And because all the things that we discussed on the online censorship and everything, that makes political art very rare. And it makes it very hard to be purchased in conventional venues like galleries because the Chinese government could just call and cancel the show. And then it makes the NFT. probably is the most valuable platform and way for political arts to uploading and make this

into a collectible artwork. So I'm not here just to calling help to the political artists who are trying to FT. I'm also one to shelling to the people and the collectors that you need to learn about art, you need to learn about why political art well-bearing. be important and valuable in the longer term. Yes, you should earn some money by flipping with the monkey heads, but you should also think about diversify your investment. Think about some blue ribbon stocks, which will be the political art. I mean, let's imagine after 20 years, you have to explain to your grandchildren that what you collect as an FTA. Do you have to say that, oh, you know, Justin Bieber

have that monkey hat, so that's very valuable and important. Then you have to go through the whole trouble to explain who Justin Bieber is. But imagine if you collect something that recording the changing time of our world,

that recording the brutality of one of the most powerful country like China, and foreseeing the change which is coming, then it would be much valuable and easy to explain to her grandchildren. So for the sake of the future,

try to diversify your investment, not just monkey heads. Great. So we started quite late. Does anybody have any questions? What if you're not a formal artist, but enjoy doing art on the side and then decided to post an NFT, what's the rationale behind that

if there's a project you're working on, done in the platform, but just doing it for fun or just want to get started. I think platform is always the problem for not just political arts, for any emerging artists. And what an NFT providing is a platform, a showcase as well. But also a possible way to help you financially. So why not try that? I think the most important thing is as artists, you should be faithful and truthful to your art. Do not just create art that can be sold on NFT.

platform. Do your own arts. Put it on the NFT. That's how you be truthful as an artist, but that's also how you can help the NFD market to not just making the same standard work and make it an interesting and diversify board as any artwork outside of the digital space. But what if you're truthful to your art as well? Then you're a businessman. You're not an artist. Artists have to do new works. Yeah. That's my understanding. The other thing I would say is, you know, if you do well, let's say you mined an NFT and you do well, one of the most important things about the NFT community of artists

that I've been part of for a little while is that you support other artists. So using your voice, your platform and your energy to, you know, tweet, retweet, repost, share the work of others and by their work, the hit, which was, I know this is like a very blockchain heavy conference, but Tesos and Hick-Ecknunk, which is now defunct, but that community of artists on that chain, which, by the way, it's like $2 to buy a Teso, so it's much more affordable and a great entry point for a new artist. They are all about, we're all about retweeting, buying, and there's a movement called Object for Object or Tesos for Tesos to retweet buy and share the work of others. And particularly diverse groups, women, people of

color, queer people, you know, making sure that you're creating a space for the voices of not just the hegemony or whatever, the mainst. stream, like Bada Chow's saying the monkey heads, but actually, you know, diverse people and amplifying their voice, using your power to do that. So if you do suddenly get power, like, use that power, you know, share, retweet Bada Chow, everybody. Like, it's all about collective action and NFTs are no different. Yeah, but just share the work you like. Don't share the work for their support. So I'm really curious, as we're making this movement from, um, from NFTs as revenue for artists who are operating commercially into the realm of political artists who are raising money for causes,

socially engaged artists who are raising money for communities that are working in, what you've seen out there in the world and what you're thinking through this experience about revenue split models that can benefit artists who also need support while supporting communities that they are caring for, want to stand up for and what you've seen out there. So for me, because, you know, I am not an NFT artist. I can only talk through my little experience. As political artists, you know,

the censorship does not just come from you do not have chance to exhibiting, but also the collector will have hesitated by your work because once the financial record reveal who they are, they will be revenged by the Chinese government. But NFT and blockchain was providing this possibility for buying things anonymously.

At least it's very hard to tell or trace. So definitely opening supporters. And in that way, it actually supporting young artists like me. And for me personally, what I really want to achieve in the future is somehow establish this platform to encouraging emergent artists like myself when five, 10 years ago. Because when I started making political art, it's really not. no money and no support, no platform. And I only insist in the continuous work

because somehow, sometimes someone helped me, give me a hint. So I do think it's very necessary to actually establish this platform, dedicated to political art, dedicate to art that's serving a community and kind of branding them together as a way to support each other. All right, well, I think that's everything. Thank you all so much for coming. Thank you to Buddy Channel.

And thank you. Have a great rest of your form.