Unchained - Unconfirmed - Ep.003 - The Gender Imbalance in Crypto: Jalak Jobanputra on Why It's a Problem and Her Effort to Fix It

Episode Date: March 2, 2018

Future Perfect Ventures' founder and managing partner Jalak Jobanputra and I discuss the New York Times article earlier this week about how few women there are in crypto. We discuss some of the surprising comments we saw from women in the space who wish the story hadn't been written and Jobanputra's new effort to increase diversity in crypto, The Collective Future. The New York Times article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/25/business/cryptocurrency-women-blockchain-bros.html Jutta Steiner's tweet: https://twitter.com/jutta_steiner/status/968158503096471553 Meltem Dermirors' tweet: https://twitter.com/Melt_Dem/status/967983438945968130 Elizabeth Stark's tweet: https://twitter.com/starkness/status/968307972597272576 Wired article about The Collective Future: https://www.wired.com/story/for-women-in-cryptocurrency-a-new-effort-to-grow-their-ranks/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everyone, here is this week's episode from my new podcast, Unconfirmed, insights and analysis from the top minds in crypto. In case you haven't had a chance to listen or subscribe already, you can check it out here on the Unchained Feed. My guest this week is Jalak Jobon Putra, founder and managing partner at Future Perfect Ventures. We discussed the article on Women in Crypto in the New York Times and some of the pushback from women in the space about it. If you like the episode, be sure to go to the feed for Unconfirmed Insights and Crypto and Subscribe today. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Unconfirmed, the podcast that reveals how the marquee names in crypto are reacting to the week's top news and gets the inside scoop on what they see on the horizon. I'm your host, Laura Shin. This episode is brought to you by OnRamp. Your branding and website are the first things your users will see. And in the current Wild West of ICOs and blockchain startups you need to stand out from the pack. OnRamp is a full service creative and design agency that will help amplify your brand with a perfect website, logo, collateral, or custom design project. Get big results in no time by visiting Think OnRamp. My guest today for Unconfirmed is Jalak Jobon Futra, founder and managing partner at Future Perfect Ventures.

Welcome, Jalak. Thank you. It's great to be here. I brought you on the show this week to discuss one specific piece of news, and it wasn't even news, but a feature story in the New York Times about how few women there are in crypto and the sexism in the space. And I wanted you to discuss it with me because you recently launched an effort called The Collective Future to get more women involved in crypto.

But before we get to that, I wanted to hear what you thought of this article. I think general awareness of gender differences or the skewed ratios in the industry is good. I mean, what I was disappointed in the article was the fact that we weren't really discussing the actual work of what women are doing in the sector. And across like my five years of investing in this space, I've come across. brilliant women, many of them, and more and more as time goes on, who are involved in regulatory conversations, creating new regulation and starting new companies in the sector and investing in the sector. And I'd love to see some of those women highlighted. So it's interesting to me. I'm glad that you framed it the way you did because one of the things that surprised me was I

tweeted about this article and a number of women that I really respect in this space all took issue with it in a way that surprised me because I didn't feel like there was anything in the article that wasn't necessarily true. You know, obviously there really are, or there is a massive gender imbalance and there really aren't as many women as there are men. And there is a lot of sexism and misogyny in the space. And so I was. a little bit surprised, but I'm going to read you some of these tweets in their responses, just so you can get a sense of what they were saying. So Juta Steiner of, or Steiner of a parody technology, she's the CEO there. She tweeted, I wished Nellie Bowles, who's the New York Times writer,

had rather covered the amazing work that women in this space are actually doing. So it's similar to what you were doing, but she seems to be saying, like, I almost wish she hadn't even written about the gender imbalance. Melton Demirers, formerly of Digital Currency Group, tweeted, I have politely rebuffed every journalist who tries to spin this narrative. It would have been a better use of space to write about the actual work that quoted women do. Elizabeth Stark responded, and she's the CEO of Lightning Lab. She responded, same. This is exactly what I tell journalists every time they ask me to be quoted in an article about women in crypto, stop marginalizing, and write about the awesome work that women are doing. So do you agree with them that even an article like this shouldn't

even, or that any article about the space shouldn't even talk about the fact that there is a gender imbalance? I don't necessarily agree that there shouldn't be articles about the gender imbalance because the response I've actually gotten from the article has been awareness from people outside of this space who now want to do more to encourage more balance in the space. So I think it's definitely served a purpose, especially for those people who are not in the industry, who may not be aware that this sector is, you know, growing with the same imbalance that exists in the tech industry. I do agree, however, with all of these women who I know well and respect very much so, that we need to start highlighting the work that the women are doing and the influence they are having on this sector. And when we only highlight the imbalances, then it makes it just sounds like, you know, women are trying to get in and can't get in, which I don't think is the case because I actually think a lot of women are determining what the future of cryptocurrency and blockchain technology is going to be.

Yeah, my take on these tweets is, you know, so I respect all these people tremendously. but on this point I disagree with them and maybe that's just because for me as a journalist, I feel like telling the truth is an important thing. And I know from surveys I've seen in the industry, I know from, for instance, a survey I've done on my own podcasts. I know from even just doing a gender analysis of my Twitter followers that the gender balance does, imbalance does exist. Absolutely.

And I can understand. Yep, sorry. Oh, I was just going to say, I think, you know, pointing out that BTC Miami conference where the after party was at as a strip club came as a shock to a lot of people who are not in the industry, that things like this are still happening. And there are a number of people who are trying to work on inclusion or say they are, but they continue to speak at events without looking at, you know, factors like that. And I think to the extent that this pointed this out and pointed out that, you know, we need to change certain things. We need to have codes of conduct at conferences. We need to create environments where everyone feels welcome.

And there's actually nothing wrong with that. And that if it can encourage more people to pay attention to some of these conferences that are so and balance or do something about it, then I think it's served a really strong purpose. With Amex Platinum, almost every purchase made with your card can be covered with points, including new tastes, new fits, and virtually everything in between. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Yeah, well, speaking about the Miami conference, I have to make two, well, three points.

So first of all, last year after that conference, I saw a well, known male in the space, tweet a photo of him with this woman who was apparently at the conference painted, naked painted in gold paint. And I don't know. And he tweeted something that sort of indicated like he thought the conference was cool for that reason or something. And I thought to myself, I am never going to that conference. So you were ahead of the curve on that. Yeah. But what's funny or not funny, but it's somewhat appalling, frankly, is that then this year I saw that some men that I really respect in the space and consider almost friends at this point, they went. And, you know, maybe they didn't know, but, you know, even before the conference happened,

obviously there was a lot of noise being made about the fact that there were almost no women speakers. It was something like 88 men and then one woman. And then at the last minute, he changed two of the people, so it was 86 to 3 because people made a little bit of noise about that. But like, frankly, that's just dismal. And it doesn't have to be that way. Like, I've, you know, arrange things for articles or other kinds of media that I've been doing and managed to do, you know, like 40% women or whatever. And it's really actually not that hard if you're paying attention. But the other thing I wanted to say about the conference is that afterward, I wanted to do a podcast on Unchained, which, you know, is the longer four.

format podcast and have two women, because there was a lot of noise being made in the women's groups about how really reprehensible, frankly, a lot of the behavior of the organizers was. And they refused to come on my podcast and talk about it. And they said, I'd rather come on your podcast to talk about the work I'm doing, which of course I would like to have them do that as well. But, you know, this was an important topic to cover. And I asked multiple people. They all said no. And, you know, I am just, you know, when I found out about what you were doing with collective future. I was like, okay, great, this is my opportunity to have somebody discussed it. But what do you think of this trend that I at least perceive that there are a lot of

women in the space that would rather sort of kind of brush it on the rug or like pretend it's not happening? What do you make of that? Well, look, I mean, I would rather be here with you discussing the great entrepreneurs I'm meeting in the space, men and women. But the reality is, and I probably have a different perspective and that I invested through the early days of the internet. I started investing in the late 90s in Silicon Valley. So I've been in the tech industry for a while. I've seen the imbalance and cultures that have evolved and especially as an early stage investor. I've seen how important it is that in the early days of a sector, the early days of a company, it's important to set the culture. And that's what will persist over time. It's

very difficult to go back and change the culture of a place, as we've seen in cases like Uber. So I think it's imperative, and for this technology in general, for its broadest impact in the world, that we bring attention to the imbalances, lack of inclusivity at events so that we can start affecting change early on. And I have to say, there are no, there's no lack of talent amongst women or people of color who want to get engaged but are turned off by some of the cultural elements of some of these conferences. And I think we're all losing out as a result when we don't get everyone involved early days. And I want to actually ask you about something that I see a lot of my male followers on Twitter seeing to anything that I tweet on this issue, they will respond.

there are no barriers to entry in crypto. It's just that women aren't interested. And it seems like you were hinting at something earlier when you said that this space is sort of replaying the gender imbalance in tech. Is that you're feeling about it? Like that simply women are less likely to hear or be introduced to crypto because it tends to be tech people that get into the space? Well, I would say. So the first Bitcoin conference I went to was in 2013. I think there was maybe one other woman there, and it was Catherine Nicholson from Block Seifer,

who I ended up actually investing in after she had already, she hadn't started her company yet. But we just started talking about the space. I thought she was very smart and then thoughtful about the way she was approaching the space. And so since those days, you know, I've gone to a number of conferences, and I feel like there are more women getting engaged. I do a lot of events that are more kind of community-oriented, not necessarily for the crypto world, but to educate people in different sectors and different demographics about what's happening in the space. So they can ask, you know, the dumb questions, even though I don't think there are any dumb questions in the space because it's so early that everyone's still learning.

But just environments where, you know, diverse groups of people can come together. And, you know, there are always like 50, 50 percent men and women in the audience. A lot of people of color and people, Caucasians. So I would say that, you know, I see a lot of interest across the board. Now, we have to then take that interest to see who's actually, you know, able to benefit from the wealth creation that's happening that is to come in the sector. And I want to make sure that we don't have the disparities. in this sector that we saw happen in the tech sector.

So I do think there's interest. I just want to encourage everyone who's interested to get engaged, you know, whether investing personally or starting companies and, you know, encourage my male colleagues who are investors because, frankly, you know, most of them are still men, to be open-minded in terms of who they're funding and the backgrounds of the people they're funding. Great. So this is going to be the perfect segue to the collective.

future, which we will talk about in a moment after a quick word for our fabulous sponsor, OnRamp. If you're starting up a new project or need some design or branding help on an existing one, OnRamp has you covered. OnRamp is a full service creative agency that has helped numerous companies, including many in the crypto space, maximize their brand awareness, gain traction, and accelerate growth. OnRamp has a passion for assisting brands and boosting business results and can help with everything from website and logo design to social and content strategy. Focus on your core technology and leave the rest to OnRamp.

learn more and see how they've helped passionate entrepreneurs achieve their dreams, go to think onramp.com. So let's talk about the collective future. What is this new organization you're launching? So this organization came out of an offsite that I decided to host in Williamsburg, New York earlier in February. And over the last few years, I've met so many talented women in the space. And we'll see each other at conferences, we'll be speakers. But I always wanted to kind of get to know them and their work better. And I knew that, look, I mean, it's still, if you look at speaker lists, it's still not a lot of women. And I thought, gosh, you know, wouldn't it be interesting to just spend a weekend with these women. And also talk about the work we're doing. It was a very

cross-disciplinary group. So there were lawyers. they're entrepreneurs, investors, corporate blockchain people who are really all leaders in their respective areas. And these are the people that I look to and I read their blogs and their writings to kind of assess and for my opinions on the sector. So and it was really overwhelming response. I mean, I don't think, you know, we may have had one or two that couldn't make it. But everyone I invited, and these are women from all over the world who flew in to spend the weekend together. Not one asked who else was coming. So it was a bit of a leap of faith, and it was really the first time that we've done this.

And so we had a weekend talking about regulation and investing and global developments. I mean, we had Elizabeth Rosiello from Bitpessa there talking about what's happening. and how the Bitcoin sector has evolved in Africa. We had Sandra Rowe who launched CME Futures at CME and is now working on several projects in Mauritius around the blockchain. So very interesting projects, ideas, and kind of solutions to just general challenges that the crypto sector is facing in terms of custody and regulation. And then the last morning,

before we kind of parted ways, you know, I brought up the, you know, whether there was an interest in kind of capturing the energy of the weekend into something, a platform that could, you know, others from underrepresented groups get into the sector and support them once they got into this sector. And that was also an overwhelming yes. And that's how the collective future was really born. And we've had thousands of emails come into our site. And so it's going to continue to grow. I think we hit on something that is, you know, certainly has shown that there is demand and a desire for this kind of platform and network. And we'll certainly connect with lots of other kind of grassroots organizations that have popped up all around the world

to support diverse entrepreneurs. And how do you plan to get more women involved? Do you have particular programs or ideas in mind at the moment? Yeah. So we've already had quite a few women volunteer to be mentors and then requests for mentees. And so we'll be doing some matchmaking around that. One of the areas is certainly around visibility.

I'm a big believer in role models mattering. And I think, you know, everyone needs to be aware that is the case that people want to see people who look like them on stage, being quoted, especially if they're doing the work. And so, you know, visibility is certainly going to be part of this, highlighting projects that women are doing. Regulation they're helping right. And so it's going to be kind of a visibility as well as a knowledge sharing platform. form. And then we're also, I've been doing this personally quite a bit, but providing scholarships to, you know, underrepresented groups that may want to attend some of these conferences and hackathons specifically. And that's what I've been doing. It's, you know, just people I know who

can't quite afford to make it to one of these hackathons, but have the background and the passion, you know, just supporting them and be able to do that. So these are just some of the idea. And And then we're getting more and more kind of inbound on partnerships. And so we'll be announcing a lot more soon. And do you have any kind of theories on sort of what the root causes? Because when you were saying that people want to see role models who look like them, I started, you know, because I obviously have this goal with my two podcasts to have as diverse yes, as I can, but the fact of the matter is simply there are many more men and white men

to choose from, frankly, than there are other people. And so I just wonder, how will you kind of find those role models? Like, do you feel that there are enough that exists to create a bunch? Absolutely. I mean, the 20 women that gathered at the collective future is just to start. And these are people I admire in the space. Regardless of gender, I think these are real thought leaders who are contributing greatly to the conversation. And so I do believe that they exist. It's interesting. I have this conversation about women on boards and a lot of companies and men say, well, we can't find them. They don't exist. They're not there yet. And it's a pipeline problem. And it's, yeah, and yet, but everybody just wants the same women.

It's, you know, Cheryl Sandberg or, you know, maybe one or two other people. And yet, we don't hold that same standard for, you know, the men that go on boards. And so I think it's just really looking at who is out there and they may not be as vocal. And maybe they haven't received that visibility before because of the biases that also exist. Because certainly it's safer to, you know, interview. you, Tim Draper, than it is someone else because he's a well-known entity and he's always entertaining, right? So I think I've been on many panels with him over the last year and always enjoy it. But so I would say that it's really up to kind of organizers and the media to really, you know,

think about, like, who really is out there. And, and again, I think a good start is, is, is, the women who are part of the collective future and will be showcasing more and more of them over time. Yeah. And one thing I would also add is, you know, this is a space where people are building things that's very new and everybody who is in it, save for just like a couple of handful of people that were working on cryptocurrencies before Bitcoin existed. We're all coming from some other industry. We all have a background that wasn't in Bitcoin. And so for that reason, And I feel like a lot of projects when they are looking for people, you know, they could easily nab some woman from another industry who they think has done stellar work because all of our skills are transferable in this new space. And when you're creating in a space where there aren't well paved roads and aren't rules, then I think that is a time when you can get really creative about who you want to work with.

I agree. And that's why I was moved to start the collective future now before, you know, we get too far along along the way. And people turn around and say, well, you know, nobody was interested. Because I know by fact from all the events that I do that are more public that I organize, it's a very diverse group that that is interested. So it's really imperative on all of us to get everyone engaged. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Well, thank you for having me. It was great to talk to you. Thanks so much for joining us today to learn more about the topics we discussed. Be sure to check out the links in the show notes of your podcast episode. Also be sure to follow me on Twitter at Laura Shin. New episodes of Unconfirmed come out every Friday.

If you haven't already, rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts. If you like this episode, share it with your friends on Facebook, Twitter, or LinkedIn. Unconfirmed is produced by me, Laura Shin, with help from Elaine Zelvie and In fact, recording. Thanks for listening.