Unchained - Why Congressman Ro Khanna Is Hopeful the Democratic Party Will Embrace Crypto - Ep. 679

Episode Date: July 26, 2024

The Democratic Party has faced criticism from the crypto industry for its stance on the sector, but House Representative Ro Khanna is determined to change that narrative.  In this episode, he talks about his efforts to shift the party’s approach, his thoughts on the current regulatory environment, and his vision for a crypto-friendly future. He gives his insights on the implications of the Supreme Court’s overturning of the Chevron doctrine, the potential for a crypto bill this year, and his upcoming remarks at the Nashville Bitcoin conference. Plus, if you are a single-issue voter, he’s got something to say to you. Show highlights: 00:00 Intro 01:36 How Rep. Khanna is working to change the Democrat approach to crypto policy in the U.S. 04:54 What Rep. Khanna's response is to formerly Democratic crypto voters, such as Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz, who have decided to vote for Trump this election 07:12 What Rep. Khanna would like to see in a potential crypto plank of the Democratic Party platform 07:58 Who Rep. Khanna believes should be the next SEC chair under a potential Harris administration 08:41 His thoughts on Christy Goldsmith Romero's nomination as chair of the FDIC 09:37 Rep. Khanna's perspective on how to convince Democratic Party members about the benefits of crypto 11:21 How Rep. Khanna views the Supreme Court's overturning of the Chevron doctrine and its implications for crypto 13:29 What key points Rep. Khanna will address in his upcoming remarks at the Bitcoin conference 14:16 What broader implications Rep. Khanna sees in the vote and its potential impact on the crypto industry 15:43 Whether a crypto bill could pass this year in Congress 18:11 Crypto Recap Visit our website for breaking news, analysis, op-eds, articles to learn about crypto, and much more: unchainedcrypto.com Thank you to our sponsors! iTrustCapital Polkadot PlayFi Labs Guest Ro Khanna, U.S. representative from California Previous appearance on Unchained: Congressman Ro Khanna: How to Get More Democrats into Web3 Links Recent coverage of Unchained on politics and the elections: Congressman French Hill on Crypto and His Top Pick for the Next SEC Chair Anthony Scaramucci on Why He Supports Biden and Thinks He, Not Trump, Is Best for Crypto Why Many Democrats, Including the White House, Have Come Around on Crypto Senator Cynthia Lummis on Why Crypto Now Has Bipartisan Support in Congress Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We have a lot of good next generation Democrats that are for crypto. Look at the voting records of people, Fit 21, who voted for it. Look at SAB 121, who voted to overturn it. Look at people's crypto and blockchain platforms and ask them the difficult questions. And judge us based on our platforms on this. And I do think, and I'm hopeful that the Democratic Party at the convention will take a turn and reject the hostile policies of the president. past.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Unchained, your no-hype resource for all things crypto. I'm your host, Laura Shin, author of The Cryptopians. I started coming crypto nine years ago, and as a senior editor at Forbes, was the first matriameter reporter to take over cryptocurrency full-time. This is the July 26th, 2024 episode of Unchained. Pocod is the original and leading layer zero blockchain with over 2,000-plus developers. And the Pocodot 2.0 upgrade will be a massive. accelerator for the ecosystem. Join the community at PogoDot.network slash ecosystem slash community.

With I trust capital, you can buy and sell crypto in a tax advantage retirement account. Enjoy significant tax advantages, 24-7 access, and the industry's lowest fees. Video accounts for over half of total internet traffic. Playfey's protocol turns content into data with cutting-edge AI and blockchain. Learn more at playfi.a.ai. Today's guest is Congressman Roe Kana. Welcome, Representative Kana. Thank you.

Thanks for having me back. The crypto community has suffered unfairly under the Biden administration. For example, various judges have found that the SEC in its dealings with crypto companies has acted, quote, arbitrarily and capriciously in the words of one panel of judges and has perpetrated, quote, a gross abuse of power in the words of another judge. There's also been Operation chokepoint 2.0, which aims to either shut up. down banks that service crypto companies or to keep crypto companies from being able to bank at all. And as an example of that Barney Frank, one of the co-authors of the Dodd-Frank Act said that the closing of signature bank happened because, quote, regulators wanted to send a very strong

anti-crypto message. So this election cycle, we've seen numerous members of the crypto community come out in support of Trump, including people who have previously been solidly Democrat or Biden's supporters. And I understand it's only been a few days since it looks as though Vice President Kamala Harris will become the Democratic nominee. But I wondered what you had to say to the crypto community about how it could expect to be treated under a potential Harris administration or just even broadly by the Democratic Party going forward. Well, I'm working very hard to change the policy. I voted and worked with Patrick McKenry on Fit 21 to make sure that we have the CFTC to regulation and the SEC, but a more balanced approach. And I led to get over 70 Democrats to vote

for that bill and worked closely with Patrick McKendry. I also voted to overturn the president's veto on SAB-121 because banks should be able to hold cryptocurrency without declaring them as liabilities. And third, I convened a roundtable with Anita Dunn, the senior policy advisor for President Biden and with Mark Cuban and Mark Novograd. and those that in recent Orowitz and other technology companies. And I'm now working with them to have a follow-up discussion, including with the Vice President's office. So we are going to make a case that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies more generally

are decentralizing, are helping make payments faster and cheaper, and that we need to be the party of decentralization and innovation. And do you get a sense yet of how the Biden camp is what their stance is on that? I think they're open to listening to the next generation of Democrats. I'm going, as you know, to Nashville, the keynote speaker for Democrats at the Bitcoin Conference, Donald Trump will be there. I think I'm one of the only Democrats going. But I think that is the important for our party to be on the right side of this issue.

And people like me, Jake Ockin-Klaus, Richie Torres, Darren Soto, we're making the case that this shouldn't be a partisan issue. And so for that roundtable that you held in D.C., what are some substantive changes that you think the crypto community can expect to come out of that meeting? Well, one, we had so many Democrats across the aisle to vote for Patrick McKendry's bill, and then after that we had many Democrats across the a lot to overturn the president's veto on SAB-121. I think almost 24 Democrats did that. And so you're seeing a new generation be more pro-keeping innovation, blockchain, Bitcoin in the United States.

And that is incredibly important. So as we alluded to earlier, Mark Andreessen and Ben Horowitz recently did a podcast where they talked about how the Democratic Party has kind of stomped on what they call little tech. And by that they really mean crypto in terms of the way that crypto can take on big tech by decentralizing a lot of different internet products and services. And they said that the party, the Democratic Party, drove them away. They called it self-sabotage. And that's how they ended up in deciding to endorse Trump. So I believe they're voters in or at least near your district. And I wondered what would be your pitch to them or to any other crypto voters who are typically Democrats who are now planning to vote for Trump this time around?

Well, I would say that we're pushing to get crypto in the Democratic platform. So hear us out at the Democratic Convention. We have a lot of good next generation Democrats that are for crypto. Look at the voting records of people, Fit 21, who voted for it. Look at SAB 121, who voted to overturn it. Look at people's crypto. and blockchain platforms and ask them the difficult questions and judge us based on our platforms on this. And I do think and I'm hopeful that the Democratic Party at the convention will take a turn

and reject the hostile policies of the past. So the Republican crypto platform says, quote, Republicans will end Democrats unlawful and un-American crypto crackdown and oppose the creation of a central bank digital currency. We will defend the right to mine Bitcoin and ensure every, American has the right to self-custody, their digital assets, and transact free from government surveillance and control. Are there any parts of that that you disagree with? And what parts do you agree with and what parts would you like to see in the Democratic crypto platform? Well, I think we need to be for the crypto work being done here, the mining being done here.

You can have a lot of clean energy to do that mining. And we want to make sure that we're leading in the crypto industry and the Bitcoin industry and that we're doing that here. I also think that we want to make sure that we have the openness to having Bitcoin as part of the Federal Reserve and as a reserve asset because of its potential for appreciation and because of its potential to allow America to set the financial standards. And so you said that you and other Democrats are working on the crypto platform. What particular aspects would you like to see in the Democratic Crypto Plank? One, that we want these industries in the United States. Two, that there's got to be fair banking. You can't

discriminate against crypto companies or people are invested in the crypto space. Three, that banks should be able to hold their assets. Four, that we need clear delineation of the rules between the SEC and CFTC. And five, that, like I said, that we should explore having Bitcoin as some part of a reserve asset. Okay. And what are the chances that you do think that that will become part of the Democratic Party platform? I'm pushing hard. I'm pushing hard. We'll say by August. Okay. So let's say that in a future Harris administration, perhaps Gary Gensler would not remain chair or I don't know. What do you think? Do you think he would remain chair of the SEC? I think she would appoint someone else who had the consensus of different community groups, industry groups, someone who comes

with a clean slate. Okay. And do you have anybody in mind who you'd like to see as share of the SEC under Harris? I don't. But I think that there has to be someone who every group can agree on, the consumer groups, industry groups, I mean, so that there's someone who's fair and is not seen as using the agency power just to go after any industry. So as I mentioned earlier, Operation Chokepoint was another point of contention from the crypto community. And Biden recently nominated Christy Goldsmith-Ramor to be chair of the Federal

Deposit Insurance Corporation, which is a key banking regulator. She has a record of saying things that are not super positive about crypto. For instance, she said, quote, one word should guide the federal government's approach to crypto. That word is risk. And generally, her comments about crypto tend to express concern about traditional finance, integrating crypto, things like pension funds investing in crypto, et cetera. What do you think of that potential pick to head up the FDIC as it pertains to I have concerns. Those concerns were raised with Anita Dunn at the roundtable and with Kirsten Gillibrand.

I definitely have concerns about that. And I think she would have to at the very least clarify that she's going to be fair on crypto and Bitcoin and not block the banks from holding those assets in ways that are discriminatory. You know, as you mentioned earlier, you were one of the Democrats who cross party lines to vote for the financial innovation and technology for the 21st Century Act, Fit 21. What has been the conversation like within the Democratic Party, or at least, you know, this pro-crypto wing of it, like from your stance are looking out at, you know, what the party generally is doing? You know, how is the conversation with other members of the Democratic Party? Is it hard to persuade them?

Do they not get it? Are they just obstinate? or are these conversations not happening? They're happening. I think the next generation, younger generation that Democrats get it, that Joe Naguces, Richie Torres, and Jonathan Jackson's, but I think there's an older generation that is a very negative view for whatever reason.

And it takes persuasion that this is something that's going to make it easier for people to be banked. It's going to make it easier for them to transfer money. It's going to make it easier for them to have tokens in a company that allows them to have some kind of ownership. It's going to make it easier for people, people to vote on how collective money should be used. And it is decentralizing a finance. So when you make the argument, people are open-minded, but it takes making an affirmative case. And do you have a sense of why it is

that Biden decided to veto the overruling of SAP 121 that the Senate had voted for? I think he defers very much to his agencies. He's an institutionalist. And typically I do too. I think there's a first time I've ever voted as to overrule a Democratic agency because I have a lot of respect for the agencies. But I just didn't think that rule made sense. I mean, how do you say that an asset that you need to declare every Bitcoin, every crypto asset by a bank is a liability when they have a certain value? We don't do that for any other asset class. And so you clearly, you know, don't seem to be a super fan of what the SEC has done in terms of the crypto industry. And we recently saw the overturning of the Chevron doctrine by the Supreme

court, which generally I have understood Republicans to be more in favor of this than Democrats. But I wondered what you thought of this ruling. And do you think that's a positive thing or negative thing? And what do you think it means for the crypto industry? Well, I think it's a very negative thing. And that's one of the reasons I was hesitant to vote to overturn SAB 121. But I did because it was such a bad decision. But in general, I mean, gunning agencies will mean that we have less protection for our ear, less protection for our clean water, less protection for drugs being safe at the FDA. And I think you need agencies and expertise in agencies to keep the American people safe, to stand up for labor, stand up for environment. Obviously, the gutting

of agencies may create initially some more breathing room for entrepreneurs, but I don't think long run that's good even for the industry, because what we want are predictable laws. But for crypto, what do you think it means? Well, I think it probably means that agencies will have a bit less power. But I think that the concern with the agencies is that they're often, there are no clear guidelines. And that's something that Congress needs to provide, which is clear guidelines. Otherwise, you still could have lawsuits. And yeah, fine.

Maybe ultimately they would be thrown out by the Supreme Court appellate courts. or what company wants to go through being sued by agencies. Okay. So ever since the end of the initial coin offering craze, we've seen that token teams just have really not wanted to issue or even airdrop tokens to users in the US, which is a point of contention in the crypto community. What do you think would be the ideal way for new tokens to launch in the US

or be issued to users? Well, I think this is where we need FIP21 to pass the Senate and be implemented, because if it is, then the SEC and the CFTC would have to come out with guidelines. and how to do that. And right now, there's been a lot of freezing effectivity because of regulatory uncertainty. All right. So you're speaking at the Bitcoin conference this weekend. Can you give us a preview of your remarks? I'm going to talk about why Bitcoin matters. I mean, why Bitcoin matters in terms of allowing cheaper transactions, allowing overseas transactions, being an asset class that's going to appreciate, having America lead in such an asset class so that we are making the rules,

making sure that we are open to it being an asset for the United States, Bitcoin being easier to store than gold and not having the same costs and obviously not being subject overseas to inflationary pressures. So there are a lot of positives to Bitcoin and a long-time appreciation. And I'll be making those points. As you probably have heard, the crypto community has had some internal fighting about whether or not they should be single-issue voters. And as we've discussed, Trump has embraced a pro-crypto platform. He's speaking at the Bitcoin conference this weekend. As you mentioned,

you're the only Democrat. All the others tend to either lean Republican or be more in that camp. He's also selected J.D. Vance, who's a bitcoiner, a former venture capitalist as his vice president. And I wondered what you would say to voters who have already decided they're going to vote for Trump to think about how you would think about the broader context around that vote and how that could affect the crypto industry. Well, look, I still think there are fundamental issues in this country, abortion rights, voting rights, immigration, climate. And I respect how anyone votes, but I would just urge them to look at the complete picture. And then to know that I admit that the Democratic Party has not been as good on crypto, but people like me and a young generation are pro-crypto.

You can do have people understand it. And ultimately, I hope this can be an issue that transcends. partisanship and that we have people supportive of it on both sides. I mean, who would be against semiconductors or against AI in a blanket way that crypto and Block and Bitcoin are just technologies. And let's have sensible regulation to use the technology for good while protecting consumers. But it makes no sense to say we're the anti-crypto party when you're talking about just a technology. Last quick question before you go. Some people are saying that there is potential that we'll see a crypto bill that gets passed before the election or before the years, years end? What do you think

that might be? And what do you think the odds are of that? I'm hoping it's fit 21 and McHenry's bill has passed the House. It's time for the Senate to pass it. It would make such a big difference in regulatory clarity. And it also, part of the provision overturns SAB-121. So we have the bill. We need the Senate to act. And then I think having some regulations on and predictability on stable coins would be good as well. Great. Well, thank you so much, Congressman Kana. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Yes, enjoy the conference. Don't forget, next of is the weekly news recap. Today, presented by Wondercraft AI.

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Perfect for GameFi and Defi to build, grow, and scale. Get your Web3 ideas to market fast. Think big, build bigger with Pocod. Join the community at Pocodot.network slash ecosystem slash community. Welcome to this week's Crypto Roundup. In today's recap, we cover the SEC's approval of Spot Ether ETFs and their significant market impact. Cracken's distribution of Mount Gok's Bitcoin to creditors after a decade. The launch of a documentary on Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin, D-IDX's plans to sell its derivatives trading software,

Swan Bitcoin's cancellation of its IPO, and closure of its mining unit, BlockFi's completion of FTX creditor distributions, Gito Foundation's release of an open-source restaking service for Solana, and a surge in Ava's price following a new governance proposal. Thanks for tuning in to the weekly news recap. Let's begin. CC approved spot ether ETFs. Trading begins with high activity. On Monday, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission gave its final approval for several spot ether exchange traded funds, setting the stage for their historic launch. This approval comes roughly six months after the SEC Greenlit 11-spot Bitcoin ETFs indicating a significant regulatory

shift. Trading of the new ether. ETFs began on Tuesday with remarkable activity. The grayscale Ethereum Trust, ETHE, generated nearly half of the $1 billion total volume. Other notable performers included Black Rock's I-Shares Ethereum Trust and the Fidelity Ethereum Fund, which recorded $266 million and $204 million in inflows, respectively. On the second day of trading, the ETFs generated $937 million in volume with grayscale, BlackRock, and Fidelity leading again. However, there were $133.16 million in net outflows on Wednesday. On a negative note, the market has reacted quite negative. On Wednesday, the price of ETH fell 8%, and at the time of recording is trading below $3,200.

On that day alone, there were $290 million worth of liquidations in the market. The price is now at a level similar to the one before the ETF approval was announced. The historic launch of spot ETFs in the U.S. coincides with concerns over Ethereum's growing supply. Since April, Ethereum's supply has risen to 120.2 million ETH, its high. highest level since November 2023 due to reduced eath burning and declining layer one activity. In the past 30 days alone, the supply increased by 59,312 eth. This trend challenges the ultrasound money narrative, which suggests ETH could be deflationary. Despite this, the amount of staked ETH has reached a record 33.7 million, potentially mitigating selling pressure and

supporting ETH prices. Crackett distributes Mount Gawks Bitcoin to creditors after a decade. For the first time in 10 years, some creditors of the now-defunct Mount Gawks Exchange have received their Bitcoin and Bitcoin cash. Crypto Exchange Cracken announced on Tuesday that it has successfully distributed these digital assets from the Mount Gawks estate. Cracken CEO Dave Ripley wrote on X that it's been nearly a decade since Cracken was selected by the trustee to facilitate the investigation and return of client funds. It was our

privilege and it was our duty. Something notable about these repayments is that they happened on the same day the Ethereum ETFs were launched in the U.S. Therefore, the market saw a bullish event, the ETFs, and a bearish one at roughly the same time. Kai Yung-Ju, CEO of analytics firm, crypto-quant, observed on X that there was no significant spike in trading volume or Bitcoin outflows from Cracken immediately following the distributions. However, there was an increase in outflows during Asian trading hours. Bit Stamp, another exchange involved in the restitution process, received $340.1 million worth of Bitcoin on Wednesday and is set to distribute more funds to creditors.

The distribution marks a significant step in concluding the lengthy Mount Gawks saga, which began with the exchanges collapse in 2014. In related news, a wallet associated with the U.S. government transferred nearly $4 million in Bitcoin, seized from Silk Road vendor Ryan Ferris to the crypto exchange coin base, likely indicating its intent to sell. Supporters can mint Vatolic documentary trailer to fund release. On Tuesday, the Anchin minting of the trailer for the documentary Vitalik and Ethereum story went live, inviting crypto enthusiasts to fund the decentralized release of the film in theaters

and on streaming platforms. The documentary chronicles the last three years. The documentary chronicles the last three years of Ethereum through the eyes of its co-founder, Vitalik Buterin, focusing on pivotal moments like the merge, which transitioned the network from proof of work to proof of stake. The film, part of the Ethereum story series, highlights significant events in the crypto space, such as the creation of Constitution Diao's bid to acquire a copy of the U.S. Constitution. What I hope is that this is the perfect time to be telling stories that are human in the space, because there's this big global spotlight on Ethereum, said director Zach Ingrossi. The documentary's world premiere is set for September 18th.

Ingrashi emphasized the unique funding model, stating, with the mint of this trailer, we can actually power the distribution of this film and series. That's so unique to the crypto space. The project has already raised over 1,036 ETH, around $3.2 million, through a crowd fund, supported by more than 660 contributors. D-YDX considers selling derivatives trading software. Meanwhile, hashtags filed an S-1 registration with the SEC for an ETF that will initially hold Bitcoin in Ether, with the potential to also include other assets pending regulatory

approval. Decentralized finance platform D-YDX is negotiating the sale of its D-I-D-X V-3 derivatives trading software to a group of prominent crypto market makers, including Wintermute and Salini Capital, according to a Bloomberg report. The deal, advised by Porella Weinberg Partners, aims to transfer the software for an undisclosed amount, according to sources familiar with the matter. Launched in 2017, D-YDX allows users to trade perpetual futures contracts for various cryptocurrencies. The platform transitioned to its own blockchain with the V4 software last year, though the V3 version remains popular due to its high

liquidity and low slippage for large transactions. Shortly after the new news, broke, D-YDX reported a security breach on its V3 website, advising users to avoid clicking on any links until further notice. This incident does not affect the V4 platform. Hours later, the team noted on X that the issue was resolved. Swan Bitcoin cancels IPO plans. Swan Bitcoin has scrapped its plans to go public and is shutting down its managed mining division, leading to layoffs in various departments.

CEO Corey Clipson announced that due to the lack of the lack of the last. of expected revenue from the mining unit, the company had to abandon its IPO. He noted on X that Swan is scaling back its spending on core financial services, which regrettably includes staff reductions. Despite these hurdles, other mining companies, such as Genesis Digital Assets and Northern Data, are still aiming to go public. Previously, Swan's mining unit operated with 160 megawatts of computing power and secured over $100 million from institutional investors. including stable coin issuer tether. Now the firm will concentrate on offering Bitcoin-related financial services and educational resources.

BlockFi finalizes FTX creditor distributions. Defunct crypto lender BlockFi has completed the sale of its FTX claims, significantly exceeding their face value. This transaction finalized with an undisclosed third party will facilitate the final distribution of 100% of eligible customer and general unsecured creditor claims in Fiat. terms. BlockFi plan administrator Mosin Y Meggi reported the sale to the U.S. bankruptcy court, noting that the sale process, which began on June 24th, concluded on July 10th with the best possible bid. The substantial recovery from the sale enables BlockFi to wind down its operations and distribute funds to creditors sooner than anticipated. The final distributions will commence very soon with Fiat claims managed by Kroll and digital disbursements and in-kind crypto distributions

to be processed via Coinbase. Gito unveils open-source restaking service for Solana. On Thursday, the Gito Foundation released an open-source code base for staking and restaking on the Salana network. This service, the first of its kind for Solana, allows any protocol to use different assets for economic security. Restaking enables blockchain networks to leverage the value of staked assets as collateral in order to maintain network integrity.

Gito's new code aims to facilitate this. for any Salana-based application, termed as actively validated service. Unlike Eganlayer's Ethereum-based restaking, which limits collateral to ETH and certain derivatives, Gito's code permits using any crypto asset to secure Avess's. Ava token jumps on proposal for new tokenomics. The price of AVE the governance token for the largest decentralized finance lending protocol surged 10% on Thursday, following a new governance proposal aimed at updating its tokenomics and hitting a two-year high in the amount borrowed.

The proposal suggests a roadmap for implementing a fee switch for staked AVA, turning it into a liquidity sink to collect rewards from protocol revenue. If approved, the new buy and distribute program will purchase AVA from secondary markets to distribute to the ecosystem reserve, creating consistent demand for AVA assets. The proposal will be open for community feedback before moving to a snapshot vote. And that's all. Thanks so much for joining us today. If you enjoyed this recap, go to Unchained Crypto.substack.com that is Unchained Crypto.com and sign up for our free newsletter so that you can stay up to date with the latest in crypto. Unchained is produced by Laura Shin, with help from Matt Pilchard, Juan Aronovich, and Margaret Karan. The weekly recap was written by Juan Aronovich and edited by Nelson Wang. Thanks for listening. Unchained is now a part of the Coin Desk Podcast Network.

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