Uncle Joey's Joint with Joey Diaz - #364 - Big John McCarthy

Episode Date: March 21, 2016

Big John McCarthy, MMA Referee and veteran LAPD Officer Joey Diaz and Lee Syatt live in studio. This podcast is brought to you by: Onnit.com. Use Promo code CHURCH for a discount at checkout Club W. Go to www.clubw.com/joey to get 50% off of your first order of wine curated just for you 
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Recorded live on 03/20/2016.


This show is brought to you by ClubW at ClubW. Never come home to a wine free house again. Just go to ClubW.com slash Joey right now. Check it out ClubW.com slash Joey. Take a 50% off of your first order. That's right ClubW is offering our listeners 50% off of your first order when you go to ClubW.com slash Joey. This show is also brought to you by Meondies. Go to Meondies.com slash Joey right now and choose from either a subscription of a single pair or get 20% off of your first order when you go to Meondies.com slash Joey. Go to Meondies.com slash Joey. Check out all the great t-shirts, underwear, socks, all the great

products. When you go to Meondies.com slash Joey you're gonna get 20% off of your first order. And don't forget shipping is always free in the US and Canada. And the show as always is always brought to you by Onit.com. Go to Onit.com and use code word church to get 10% off all of their amazing optimization products like Alpha Brain, New Mood, and Strongbone. Just when you thought it was safe you went to church you were feeling good about yourself. Now the real church shows up. You understand me? Leigh Sayat, Big John McCartney. It's just a little thing on a Sunday. A little get

together, a little chit chat to get your Monday morning drive on fire. Great album. The car's first album. Bring back a lot of memories. Who gives a fuck about memories? It's 2016 bitches. What's happened gentlemen? What is up? What's going on? Post St. Patty's Day. We got Big John. You know what I'm saying? I didn't celebrate I never once did in Boston. I'm not a big drinker. I never once. They're open at like 10 a.m. 6 a.m. Did you ever even go to a bar just to see that it's like going to the zoo? No, I'm so much I'm that big of a nerd. I never went. Now I

wish I had gone to a parade or something. I just never, to me, the thought of waking up at like 6 a.m. and going and drinking a beer just is the last thing I ever wanted. I wish I could do that. Like there are people doing whiskey 6 a.m. You wish you could do that. I wish I was that much of a man. I wish I could destroy myself. I wish I could get up in the morning and have a whiskey and stuff for breakfast or something. I could never even think of doing something like that. The craziest thing I did was one year. My buddies got together. They had a bar called Gregory's Seven Day Weekend. They went to the bus and they

all got on the bus and it was the craziest thing I ever saw in my life. And after the third bus stop, I said, that's it. I just left them there. You tapped. You just quit all of them. It wasn't even about the alcoholism or nothing. It was just about, it wasn't me. It was just too many people, too many guys dressed in green. And I'm like, it's 10 in the morning. People are drinking already. One beer with your steak is good for lunch. Everything after that. I don't know how people survive it. It was funny as hell. I saw it. I went to lunch with my wife, St. Paddy's Day. We just went through a

lunch and we walked past an Irish bar. And it was, you know, studio scene. It was packed. Black people, white people. They don't care. No, no, you're all like, listen, man, it's just an excuse to drink. That's it. That's all of this. Like that's people who can't wait for St. Paddy's Day. That's it. Dude, we were going to breakfast. There's this great breakfast place out where we live. It's called Mrs. Olsen's, man. It's a classic. It's on Zagats and stuff. It's got great food. And they just moved to a new location and it's right by this bar. And when we're going there, it's, you know, 9 30 in the

morning, whatever. And there's all these people. I said, God damn, Miss Olsen is going crazy today. No, they're all going into the lookout bar. It's St. Paddy's Day. They're drinking already. I go, man, they're a lot better person than me. I'm too old for that shit. I can't do it. No, I never really did it. I got, I got it. I understood, you know, it's just a good day to get hammered, but I can't sit in a bar. I never was a bar guy. Do you know that? I mean, for about a eight month period, I was forced to it in a way, but I grew up on a bar. My mom had a bar growing up. So once I saw that click in the daytime, I

used to go, how do people do this? Drinking the dark. The sunlight is out. You know, I could see getting hammered at night. That's fine. But in the daytime, the sun's out. You're in a dark bar, smoking cigarettes and stuff. What do you think, Lee? I think if I started at six AM, I'd probably be like 11 AM, I'd be done. I don't even think I'd make it to 11. You don't think so? I have a beer on the Southwest and I pass out on the flight. I have a, you know, they give you those little business select coupons. And I'm like, why do I, what's wrong with me? I'm going to Vegas. Let me loosen up. So for a year, I would only

drink an Irish cream, like Bailey's Irish cream on ice. Why would you do that? That's just a waste of time. So finally I was looking at the menu and I saw Dewars and Ginger Ale. And I go, you know what? Now that's not bad. What a guy like me drinks. That's good for your circulation. Do a couple acupuncture needles after that. You're brand new. And I do that now. Every flight I'll do with Dewars and Ginger Ale and pass out for the rest of the flight and wake up a little fucked up. I know both of you guys spend a lot of time in Vegas. Have you ever done like one of the big cups that you have to like wear? Like the

30, 60 ounce slushie, alcoholic slushies? And even though. No. No. And when you see those people in Vegas, you actually think for a minute, I really feel bad for you. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to feel like shit in two hours. With all that sugar and all that booze, you're going to feel like shit. Listen, there's, if you talk to old boozes, they'll tell you what, like the, who was telling us that he went somewhere and that they drank coconut water now with vodka. It's no hangover recipe. They drink no coconut water with vodka. No, no hangover or something. The biggest thing to hangover, man, you dehydrate, man. You dehydrate. And that's

those sweet drinks. When I go to Vegas and I see those girls, those sweet drinks early on, I look at them and go, well, they might as well have a Cosby cocktail because they'll be done in three hours. Those drinks will kill you. That sugar kills you. I wasn't cool enough for these either. But when I was growing up, the cool thing was scorpion bowls at Chinese places. I never had one. At the Aku Aku and Worcester, people would drink those things while you were on stage. And every show you had to walk over a bottle of vomit. It's like a little swimming pool. Oh my God. You ever see those?

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I grew up in a place to Micai and every Saturday we'd go up and four of us would get the zombies on fire. And you put the straws in it and you only drink out of it. They're great going down too. Until like they're good coming up too. They're good coming up too. Big John, what's the story, brother? Dude, I'm just having the time of my life, man. Just enjoying life. You look good. I'm doing good. You're working a lot. I work too much. Yeah, just about every week. This is your first weekend off in a while. Yeah. I had to take this one off. This is my dad's wife, my stepmother's. It was her

78th birthday. And so I had promised long ago that I would take this day and off because he says having her family come out and our family. And so it was, it was important to them that they had the whole family there for the most part. The only person that wasn't there was, I guess, my daughter is in the military. She's in Alabama. So she couldn't be there, but just about everyone else was. So that, that made it a, it was nice, nice for them. It was a nice day to see everyone. It's nice. Sometimes just sit around with family and sometimes on the way that you're like, well, I got to do this shit. As you're

driving on the freeway, fucking brother, deal with that fuck. He stole me 600 from three years ago, but then you get there and it's family. And that's when you realize what family is. You just, everything goes away. You know, if it's you said you loosen up, you stop playing with your nephew or something. That's it. And all of a sudden you have yourself a great afternoon. Before this started, man, we were rocking and rolling in here about the point system. The first thing we were talking about was last night with Hector Lombard and Neil Magney, which, you know, when would you have called that fight? I would have

called it the second round. Oh, the second round. Absolutely. Yeah. The real thing is what people are looking at, you know, a lot of people are going to sit there, but well, why wouldn't you stop in the first round? Because Magney was really hurt. He was, he was hurt. And this is, you know, our job is to try to let those people get through when they are hurt, but they are still actively trying to compete. When we talk about long ago at UFC three, I came up with, look, I'm going to stop the fight if the fighter cannot intelligently defend themselves. And you look at what happened in the first round with Neil Magney and Lombard,

Neil was hurt, but he was actively trying to protect himself. He was doing the right things. He's moving. And that's what we're asking of him. In the back, when we talk about you, you hear us in like, when we're going to talk between two fighters for a main event, we say, protect yourself at all times. We've got over the rules, protect yourself at all times, we'll bear commands, all that stuff. When we say we've gone over the rules, what we've gone over is about conduct and what we're looking for. And what I'll tell the fighter in the back is, look at, if you get hit with a shot and it hurts you, similar to what, you

know, Hector Lombard hit Neil with a shot, it hurt him. You could see it. And you get into a position where this person is coming down and they're attacking you. And I, if I don't think you're defending yourself in an intelligent fashion, if you are still able to consciously hear me, I'm going to be telling you, and I would tell Neil, Neil, move, get out. If you hear those words, move, get out. It's telling you, Neil, if you stay with what you're doing, I'm going to stop your fight. So what I expect of you is you hear those words. I want you to try to move the position, try to take away what he's attacking you with. Show me

that you want to be part of the fight. As long as you're trying, I don't care if you're successful. I care that you're trying. As long as you're trying, I'm going to let the fight go. It's when you don't try or you can't, you're stuck in a position that you can't get yourself out of, and you're accepting damage, the fight's going to come to an end. Well, what do you mean by defending intelligently? Because there's times where they'll still be putting their hands up or something. So what is, where does the intelligently or where does the line come in?

When you talk about intelligent defense, you're talking about if a guy is coming with heavy blows and you're putting your hand up to the side of your face, we'll say, and he's sitting there with a heavy blow coming down on it. It doesn't matter that his hand is hitting your hand because your hand is attached to your head. And what it's doing is it's scrambling your brains. That's what we can't have. But if you're doing things as far as taking my hand and putting it up and trying to move myself and just move the position. So now I make the person on top of me alter what they're doing.

Altering, they have to stop. They have to wait. Now they try for another shot. All of those things are someone who's doing something in an intelligent fashion. Even though they're accepting damage, what they're doing is they're fighting intelligently. You look at that first round, Neil fought intelligently. He was hurt, but throughout it, he was going, he was, he, he pulled himself into guard. He tried to get himself back up. He went back to guard. He did all of the things that we look at that we're saying he is still in that fight. You get to the second round and Hector's tired.

He, he burned himself out trying to put Neil away and then he gets hurt and then he's in positions where now it's different at the end, near the end of that second round. He's got Neil on his back. He's what we call rear mount. He's got hooks in. And if you look, his legs are up off of the ground. So he has no hips. His hips are gone. And all he's doing is getting hit. And he's in that position where we'll say, if you hear me tell you, move, get out and you don't try or you can't because of the position you're in, the fight's coming to an end. And that's why that would have been the

difference in why you stopped in the second round. You didn't stop in the first. Were you given any guide? Was any of this guidance given to you by like the UFC, the athletic commissions? Like, where are you? I think that's my answer. Like that. That's beautiful. And you know, that, that, that's the whole thing is, you know, now I teach classes and stuff and I try to get people educated as far as why we do things, what, what we want to do. And it's so people don't make mistakes that I had to make. But, you know,

I had to learn on my own, you know, back when the UFC started, you know, there was nothing like it. And I was the pariah. People looked at me and, you know, the other referees from boxing, you know, I was the bad guy. So none of them wanted anything to do. I had to, I had to figure things out. I had to do, I had to make a mistake, look at it, say, okay, how did that mistake happen? And what can I do to make this better the next time? And it was trial and error. And so, you know, now I go and I give that information to every referee I can in MMA because that's what's right for the

sport of MMA. Whether the, the referee uses it, that's, you know, upon them, you know, I can't tell them, you know, what they have to do. I can tell them, this is what you should do. And this is why, and then it's on them to do the right thing. When Neil Magney got hit in the second round, he went backwards and he landed right in his guard. I remember something like that, correct? Hacked him like a straight and he went backwards.

Sometimes a guy gets hit, he hits the canvas and just by looking at his eye, or you guys catch a little bit that he goes out, it's over. Like once he goes out just a little bit, you guys see that. I don't see that at home. I don't have the eyes. Like it's very weird that you knew Magney was doing, he was hurt, but he was just at home. You were that experience that you could watch on the TV and you pretty much know, I didn't know at times if he was hurt or... Well, when you look at, you know, let's take a look at that.

And there's different types of knockdowns. And obviously there's a ton of different knockdowns, but I'll break knockdowns into five different categories. All right. And Neil Magney had the very first category. When we have a guy, we can all fall backwards. Okay. We're not meant to go backwards. We're meant to go forwards as a human being. That's the way our body is set up.

But Neil gets hit with a shot and he goes back. But when you see him falling down, the first thing you see as he's going backwards is you see his hands starting to go backwards with him. And they're going backwards to actually brace the fall. Okay. That right there tells you his brain is connected. He knows where he's at. And it doesn't mean that the guy can't come and follow up and hurt him more and put him out. But at that moment, I'm going to let the fight go

because I see that his brain is still working. He can still function and he's in a position where he can defend himself. Then you'll get to the next type of knockdown. The second type is going to be where he gets hit and he's going backwards. But the difference is he doesn't put his hands out. And sometimes guys are still, they're not completely out, but they're going down and their hands are starting to try to go that direction. But they're still either down by their sides, out in front of them, sometimes up.

That's one, that's a step up by far. And that's, you become more acute to looking at the fighter and getting information as quick as you can as far as am I going to let that continue on? Or am I going to take him out? Then you'll get ones where guys fall to the sides. We as human beings don't fall going sideways. All right. If I, if I stand you here sideways and I push you, your foot's going to automatically step out and catch you.

But when your brain is disconnected, your foot doesn't go out. And so when you get pushed, you just start doing the leaning tower and you end up going down. And so that's the next evolution of the knockdown. Where someone is going down, going sideways, it's telling you they're having a problem. Their brain has been at least disconnected, where the neurons aren't firing the right way. The next type you get is they go forward. We don't fall forward.

If I see, you know, come up behind you and I push you as hard as I can, you're going to start to almost run to stop that momentum and slow yourself down and keep yourself from falling down. Because we've got these big flippers in front of us. They're called our feet. But if someone goes forward and goes down, it's telling you they've been disconnected. And the last one you'll see is you get the ones where sometimes guys just

they get shut down like a computer. And, you know, Cro-Cop, when he got kicked by Gonzaga long ago and they do this, it's almost like they're a building in Vegas, a hotel that's being brought down and they implode upon themselves. Their brain's been completely shut off. It's telling you, well, those are things that as a referee, you're looking at, you know, so they help you as far as that time. You don't have a lot of time.

So you utilize those things to give you an idea of how hurt is that person. But there's times when we'll get guys that Benson Henderson was the first, you know, was the one that a lot of people talked about. John Couch is Benson's coach. John Couch is an outstanding coach. He just does a great job with his guys. But Benson fought, you know, Jafael Dos Angeles and I did the fight and he gets hit with a shot and he gets hurt.

But as he's going down, you can see his hand going down and I'm coming in to look at him, but I know he's OK. I'm going to let him go. And as he comes up, he gets hit with a shot and I watch him. He just implodes. He goes out and I'm telling myself, I'm stopping the fight because he cannot defend himself when he's out. And as he hits the ground, he kind of comes out,

but I'm already pulling Dos Angeles out and John Couch, you know, his coach is going, John, John, you got to give him a chance to recover. And I said, John, he went out and he goes, no, you got to give him a said, John, it's over. And, you know, John and I have known each other for years and we kind of had this thing. And finally, you know, I told him, you know, shut the fuck up. And he looked at me and I said, I don't want to hear a goddamn thing. And later on, you know, he comes up to me and says, hey, I'm sorry.

I said, no, I'm sorry. I go, but he went out, John. I said, how many shots do you want me to take when he's unconscious? How many shots do you want me to have him take? And he goes, no, I want you to protect him. You did the right thing. But these are those things we can never predict the future. We can always use hindsight to look back and go,

and, you know, that would have been better if we did it this way. But your job is to protect the fighter when they can't protect themselves. And that is a decision that is not an easy decision because you want to let the fighter go as far as they can go in the competition. I always say, I want the guy, you know, I'm going to let him swim into really deep waters, but I am not going to let you fucking drown. OK, that's not my job. My job is to keep you from drowning.

And if you're starting to drown like Hector Lombard was yesterday, fights over, you know, it showed you look at what happened. And he got a minute's rest. And then he comes back out and right away. What happened? He's done because he has pushed himself past a point where his cardiovascular is out and he's accepted so much damage at that point. He just doesn't function as the fighter that he really is,

because he's been altered by what Neil Magney did. I've seen it a lot where a guy gets clocked and the floor wakes him up. Absolutely. I see it a lot. And the more the more the sport has progressed since I've been a fan, maybe eight years, I see that you guys catch it right away. Even the guy goes, what? What? You're out. And also like, oh, what happened?

Also, I see the replay and sure enough, just a tap. You see the eyes, you see the hands. And then once they hit, yeah. Yeah. Now they're back or whatever, but they're not really back. They're just back and like, you know, I got hit in the head with a few pipes. I don't know exactly what it is. It's that feeling. Get that buzz. How quickly this time moved for you during the fight?

I would imagine it goes really slow. You know what it does. And that's when people are asked me all the time, it's like, they'll sit there and they go, wow, you did that really fast. And I'll feel like, you know, Jose Aldo fights, you know, Conor McGregor, 13 seconds. It's not a lot, a lot of time that was in that fight, but, you know, I can tell you every second of what occurred where I was, what I saw.

And, you know, when they first came out, you know, Conor does a little kick and then he throws a left hand and it touches him stuff. And you can see Jose starts to bounce a little bit and he comes forward and he goes to throw the hook and Conor does a beautiful job of stepping up. Boom, he lands the left hand while he still got hit. And, you know, as Jose is going down, he's out. He's out. He's out. When he hits the ground, he actually wakes up with. Yeah.

And Conor comes down and one hammer fist, he goes out again. And I'm rushing in. And as I'm rushing in, it feels like forever. It feels like I can't get there. I'm running in mud. I'm trying to get as fast as I can get over there because I'm seeing it and I want to get there and it always feels like as soon as you get done with it, I should have done that. I should have been there faster.

And you look at it afterwards, you go, yeah, that was actually not, you know, that was I got there faster than I thought because you do. You do kind of run in slow motion. When does the when does it start? Is it when like when you get in the cave? Like when do you start going in slow mo? Now, you know, the slow motion is only when you have that you're trying to get somewhere to stop something.

You know, during during the regular fight, you know, everything is the same. You know, speeding, I'm seeing things exactly like everyone does. I look at things differently than the fans looking at. I'm looking at where shots are landing. I'm looking where things are are at because that's part of my job. But as the fights go on, I, you know, people ask me all the time, you get nervous and stuff like that. No, I don't get nervous at all. You know, I get excited for certain fights because I want to see him.

I think it's going to be a great fight. But, you know, I have a job to do it. I'm busy doing my job and everything's normal. It's always the time when you're wanting to get somewhere that it seems like that time is like it slows down. Do you ever get caught like enjoying a fight or or like, of course, let's say someone gets knocked out and you're like, oh, shit. And then and then you don't realize, oh, no, I don't go get this guy.

That hasn't happened as far as I've gone to a different place. You know, but I enjoy, you know, while they're fighting at times, you know, there's times inside I'm going, oh, fuck, that was awesome. Right. Or somewhere there. I'm not saying anything. Everyone thinks I'm still mad because everyone thinks I'm angry all the time. But I mean, I'm, I'm enjoying the hell out of it because you, you're close to what some of these guys are doing.

It's incredible sometimes. And what's incredible is some of what they take and the damage they take. And they keep on coming back. You look at, you know, a Robbie Lawler against a Rory McDonald, you know, in that fight, you look at what went on in that. And I could tell you, you know, from the first round, you know, it was fairly even and stuff until Robbie landed a left hand that it broke. Rory's nose, you could see it.

And then Rory started having a lot of problems that most people don't, they don't see, they don't understand, they don't even realize it's happening. You know, he's starting to get more damage as the, as around goes on. By the end of it, he's got a cut inside of his mouth and he's got a broken nose. And then by the end of the second round, he's got another cut inside. And then he's got a cut underneath his eye. Well, the cuts around his eyes and stuff are not that big a deal.

If, as long as he's able to see, he's got a cut on the nose of his bridge, but the cut inside of his mouth, one of them is bad. And it's bad that he's having a lot of blood in his mouth. The blood in his mouth is not that big a deal. The nose that's broken is he's bleeding down his throat. That, you know, as far as it going into his stomach, that's not a big deal. You know, if he ends up taking so much, he'll end up throwing the blood up. But because his nose is broken, you know, a fighter breathes through his nose

and he's, he can't breathe through it. So he's got his mouth open and he's sucking in these big gulps of air as the fight's going on, because he's becoming more exhausted with what's going on in his effort is still out there at a high level. But when he's sucking in the air, he's sucking in the blood is starting to actually get little droplets that are, you know, they're aspirating the droplets of blood and going into his lungs instead of dropping down into his stomach. And he's breathing that blood and that blood is now starting to stick inside

of his lungs and it's starting to make him slow down. And so as the referee, I'm looking at it going, when is Rory going to fall off the cliff, because he's working at this high rate and I can see what's occurring and I can see that he's aspirating blood. So I'm having doctors come in between rounds to look at him to say, hey, can he continue to go and, you know, they keep on saying he's okay. And it comes to a point where, you know, he gets hit with the one hand and the one hand, you know, his nose was already broken.

It hurt him, but it was the accumulation of everything and the exhaustion because he is not having his lungs work the way that they normally work. He's got this blood that is now inside of him sticking. And so that oxygen transfer to his muscles has been, you know, depleted by, we'll say 50% he's, he's running on these fumes and he's continuing to push and go hard to the point where he just, you know, like anything, like any mechanical, you know, car or plane, it just gets to a point where the pressure builds too much and it busts.

But those are the things that as a referee, I'm looking at while the fan is going, this is a great fight. That was a great fight. Oh, it was a great fight. It was one of five fights. I know from, uh, you know, getting hit in the nose, a lot of things happen. And yeah, people at home don't know these things. So it really gets me, the MMA community is so intelligent in so many ways.

There's so many other ways. They're so lost, you know, they're so fucking lost, you know, and it's, that's why I started going to Jiu-Jitsu. That is the reason why. And now I understand a lot more what's going on. Well, not a lot more, but I understand breathing. And he's on his back and this guy's on top of you, the hole for four rounds. The guy's on top of you.

There's a lot of pressure on pounds on just throwing punches. I can't even imagine. I can't have somebody in my clothes guard for four minutes. I can't imagine a guy throwing bombs on you and you're trying to get an underhook or whatever the hell it is. But that, that's amazing about Rory that you wouldn't know that at home. I just know his nose is broken and he's having a hard time breathing. Cause once, what happens when your nose gets broken?

If you blow it, you're fucked. No, that's if you, if you break, if you, if you break an orbital, one of your orbitals in your eyes, which is these really small bones that on top and bottom of that, you know, it basically holds your eyeball in place. They're a very thin bone and they can crack. But if they crack and you blow your nose, the pressure of you doing it is going to send air from your sinuses into that cavity because now there's a bone that's been split.

So that in your eye kind of goes blows up like a balloon real fast. Like Matt Matrione, like, well, Matt Matrione's was blood. There's a difference. His was done by a break in the orbital and then there was blood that filled into it also. That's why it got some big and kind of purplish looking right away. What does a bone sound like when it's being like smashed into a thousand pieces? Like, that was the thing when I went to the, I've only been to one UFC and I

like just hearing the kicks and all that stuff was crazy. But like being three feet away from a bone, just smashing to a million pieces. It's well, they don't smash, but they do snap and it's kind of like a stick. So you hear it. You definitely hear it when it goes. So when I was about 17, I was playing basketball one night in a car pulled up. There was a buddy of mine. He was got to get in the car.

Our friends get into a fight and he's by himself over there. Let's go. And we went over there and as we pulled up our friend, there was like eight guys there and our friend had a t-shirt off. He had his jeans on and he had work boots on. And as we were getting out of the car, the guy was like, ready, ready. The guy threw one punch and our friend came up and caught him in the face with a workbook with the steel tip.

And it was like something out of a move. He caught him right here at the guy. I, you know, all I, I, I didn't see as much as the foot hitting because there was a circle of people already. I just heard, uh, like Lee, you should just, and you just, he just went backwards and his nose was open, like it was busted here and blood was coming on already, but as the minutes were going up, all this was starting to swell. It was horrible.

I had to get in the car and get the fuck out of there before the cops got there. His name was Compa Compa and he was just a karate guy. He was a bartender and he went to this bar and he was having problems. And it was like, we want to fight you. Okay, I'll fight you. Hold on. At least let me wait for my friends to get here. So I feel comfortable and they let him.

And he just first fight, bam, done. And I saw that and I was like, you know what, I ain't going back to karate. Can you explain that again? That's something that I don't think most people deal with. He kicked him in the face. He was at a bar. He was at a bar and we're playing basketball. My friend pulls up, lefty Cortina.

He's a teacher now in Washington High School and he goes, get in the car, our friend, whatever, Compa's getting into a fight. He wants us to go down there. It was like a, he agreed to fight them at a bar and called you guys in. Yeah. Just so he had the backup. So, but I'm a young kid. This guy's 24, 25.

He's a bartender in the city somewhere. I just know him because we used to play basketball. My friend left his backyard and he was always there. Lefty's father was a fucking doctor. He had a huge backyard growing up. So we'd play hours of basketball back there. And he was one of the guys that played. So the night that I happened to go back there with him and he calls me over,

this guy got kicked in the face with a work boot. You have no idea, Lee. You have no idea. And he just lay there. He just lay there. Another night I see the friend of mine, Tommy Russo clocked this mother fuck outside of Tom and Gorky's and the guy went down and his eyes started blinking. I ran like 15 blocks before I stopped.

I was never so scared because, you know, I grew up on, if you're there, you're an accessory like that type of shit. I wasn't there there. I was standing outside hanging out with these guys. And all of a sudden these guys got into a fist fight. It's scary. I can't, I don't want dog. I don't even want to be a part.

I got beat up a couple of times and that's the best one, man. You want to, I think what like Lee's talking about. You get these, some of these guys, you know, gypsies or travelers or, you know, these, these guys live by the bare knuckle boxing as their way of settling disputes and they set it up. You know, they got this guy, they got to dispute with him. And then they set it up to the point, boom, you know, and they fight it out. Sometimes, you know, for them, you know, they, they still don't like each other,

but it's been settled. You know, and you get a lot of these guys, you know, the bare knuckle boxing champion right now that because there actually is, there's a guy named Bobby gun, Bobby gun was a cruiser weight in boxing. He was world champion at one point. And then Bobby has been fighting, you know, bare knuckle boxing for a long time. And he's smart about it. And then you watch some of these guys fight in these bare knuckle things.

It's not like people think, you know, it's intelligent fighting. It's all set up, but they're all staged up together because someone had to dispute over here and this guy didn't like it over here. So we're going to settle it. It's when you were a kid in the second grade, this guy stole your fucking erasure, what did you do? You met him outside in front of the school at three o'clock and everybody was happy. That's it.

That's when I was growing up. There was a fight once a month at three o'clock. You could count it like the, like the after school movie. It counted. There was always a great little fist fight, something now, you know, whatever. What are you going to do with John McDonnell? Hey, dude, you know what? If you grew up like with my dad, man, you know what?

It was okay to fight. The big thing was you weren't supposed to start it. But if someone wanted to fight, you better stand up to him because if I find out that you didn't, you're going to be taken down there and you're going to. Until you beat his ass every day, you're going to be going back. That's just the way, that's the way I was raised. Now what I'm completely lost on when it comes to MMA, you know, people, again, the MMA community is very intelligent.

And then at the other end, it's a complete whatever. And I'm part of that complete whatever, but I don't make points about it. It's the point system. It, I've never etched to find out because it's not my occupation. And I don't want to sit there with people and argue what I saw and what they saw. And after a fight in Vegas, we go to eat and every fight is a fight on the car. That's the decision. And they sit there for two hours.

What do you think? I don't know what the fuck to think. I saw him punching him in the face 18 times, but takedowns are big. And at the end of the round and controlling somebody on the gate and who's the aggressor. There's so many little things that I don't really know. Like, even if you punch me in the head eight times black, I chase you down. Oh, fucking night. I went, you know, no, you don't, you lose.

You got punched in the head eight times, but if I was the aggressing you, like chasing you and maybe who knows. So Lee had, what, what, what, what was, what the fuck you say before? I was just wondering if there was a reason why there couldn't be some sort of scoreboard. I know they do like significant strikes and they do all that, but in my head, what I was imagining was if you've ever watched like World Poker Tour, they have like their percentage chance of winning.

They show you the guy's hands. You're saying they will, they show you their hands and, and they show you the percentage of their chance to win. I just for the average fan, it would, it would get rid of a lot of those arguments, but actually maybe the UFC likes that. It keeps them talking about the fights. Maybe that's, maybe that's why they do it in boxing. They tried, they put up what they called publicized scoring.

And at the end of the round, they would project the score of the judges up onto a screen so you would know who was winning in that fight. And it's like anything, a certain type of scoring system is going to work in one fight where it doesn't work as well in another fight. And so what they ended up having is they had fights where it actually made the people so that, you know, seeing it, they realized I'm behind and they're going after the person realized I need to win this round or both fighters know I need to win this last round and it makes for an exciting fight.

Yeah, sounds like it. But what they found out also was that many times we had this person that was winning and he won the first six rounds of a 10 round fight and then he just decided to take it off and cruise because he knows that he's, he's up. The only thing he can, doesn't want to have happened is get knocked down. And so the fighter ended up actually making it a boring fight because he's not fighting. Now he's just being a defensive fighter.

And so they looked at it and said, it helps in some and it hurts in others. And so they kind of got away from it. I was going to say it could be only for the TV, but then they'd have people text me, exactly. If you're going to be, you're going to put it out there. You're going to publicize it. They're going to have a way of knowing. And so the fight will look both ways.

The fight will go, but this happened in the UFC maybe a year ago. I think it was maybe the Greg Jackson camp in between rounds. You had a microphone over there, the UFC, and he sent this fighter in and tell him that he was ahead in points and he really wasn't. And Dana said something after a fight, sending your fighter and letting him know you were ahead of points. So I don't know how it went down. I don't know if you remember how it went down or somebody said something

in between a round to one of their fighters and letting them know they were down in point. I don't know. I just, I get fucking confused. Well, I mean, you get a lot, you know, that Greg Jackson and Mike Winklejohn, you know, they have a system, you know, and people, it's, it's funny because they're, they're one of the best I've ever seen. They influence judges and because if you have Greg and Mike are together, Greg's

the grappling guy for the most part. Mike is the striking guy for the most part. And so if they have a fight where the fight ends up on the ground, you're going to hear Greg giving instruction, he's going to be telling his fighter what to do. And you're going to hear Winklejohn become the cheerleader and he's going to start, you're doing beautiful. That's it.

Beautiful, beautiful elbow from underneath that away, you know, and he starts cheerleading. If it's opposite and it's a standup fight, you're going to hear Winklejohn giving the instruction and you're going to hear Greg Jackson, beautiful, that a beautiful left hand. That's the way that's what we're looking for. And it gives all this stuff because they've got it down to where they know they have codes that they say and they're telling the fighter, you know,

what they need, but they're also kind of trying to influence the judge who's sitting somewhere by because there'll be one and I can tell you, you know, I've gone, I normally don't look at, you know, scorecards, but I'll watch a fight and it'll, and you'll have, you know, one of Greg's fighters in it and I'll watch the round and I know his fighter lost. There's no doubt about it. And I'll go up to the corner that the judge is sitting near his corner and I'll pick up the scorecard and God damn, if he didn't give it to fricking, he gets

influenced and you've got to learn how to keep that from happening. That's part of being a professional and stuff. But when you're looking at the scoring, the scoring is not like people think. And that's the biggest problem is, you know, the UFC, and this is not, not against the UFC, but they put information out on the screen. Joe Rogan says things at times, you go, no, that's not right. You're putting out bad information and the information they're putting out is, they sit, you know, they basically put up on the screen before the whole show

starts is, you know, this is a judge, you know, our judges are scoring the fights on, you know, effective striking, effective grappling, ring or octagon control and effective aggressiveness. Okay. Well, they're making someone look at and say, well, those are all the elements. And so you score them all evenly. No, you don't. Okay.

There's only two elements of a fight. All right. If I sit here and, you know, if Joey and I are going to fight and Joey decides to move forward, okay, and come after me and look mean and he doesn't hit me once, he doesn't grab a hold of me and clinch and take me to the ground. He does nothing as far as striking or grappling. What do we have? We've got ugly guys dancing.

Okay. Doing nothing. That's not a fight. Okay. Let's talk about where it's the cage control. We'll, we'll say I stand in the center of the cage and I make, and Joey's, he's bouncing around the outside and then, you know, I'll take steps towards him. He kind of backs out and then, you know, I'll let him come towards me and I'm

still in the center and boom, I'll make a faint and he backs out again. Again, it's bad dancing. It's not fighting. There's only two elements that make up the fighting as far as that's scoring. And that is effective striking and effective grappling. And it's your ability to understand what is effective striking. Effective striking is not being the one. And you get these, the USCL put out, you know, the significant strike stats.

Whoever pushes that button is a fucking moron. Okay. Has no idea of what the judges are looking for as a fight and doesn't understand what's important in the fight. Cause it's not how many times someone takes their hand, hits another person in the head, body or anything like that. It's how much force did he do it with? Because if I ask you right now, I'm going to sit here and say, I'm going to

hit you with four jabs, bump, bump, bump, bump, quick jabs. Okay. Or I'm going to hit you with one giant right hand that hits you upside the head. Which ones do you want? You want the four, you want the one? Four jabs. Bingo, because you're an intelligent human being because it's not going to damage you as much.

So you're not going to take the big right hand that's going to damage you more than the four. But if we look at a significant strikes, we have four to one, right? Which one is the one that's more important? The big, powerful right hand is the one that's more important. And so that's what the judge is looking for. We had the fight with Carlos Condit against Robbie Lawler. And it really came down to one round.

The judges were exactly the same on every round, except for the third round. Two judges went with Robbie and one judge went with Carlos. Carlos being out of Jackson Winklejohn. Okay. And you can sit there and you can watch that fight. I can break it down perfectly for you because significant strike wise, the UFC counters basically had Carlos throwing three times as many punches as Robbie Lawler. They're right.

He threw 80 punches in that round while Robbie threw 26. All right. But if you look at the true significant strikes, the ones that landed, the ones that actually had an effect in the fight out of the 80 that Carlos threw, and I was the one referring it. So I'm telling you, as I was in there the whole time going, he's missing. He's missing. He's missing out of the 80 that he threw.

He actually landed nine that I would give as significant. Now, if you want to count his front lead leg kick to the lower leg of Robbie, which doesn't do anything, you can bounce it up to 14. Okay. That's what he landed as we'll say significant, but not any of them were that heavy. We look at Robbie Lawler, 26 is all he threw, but he had 12 that were significant that landed with heavy power.

One being the best one, which was an elbow that he hit Carlos with it, that made Carlos react and go back and you look at everything. And the judges, the two got it right. Carlos won the round. It's not who throws the most. It doesn't matter how much you throw. It matters how much you damage, how much are you connecting and how much damage and how much deterioration are you doing against that fighter?

That's what they're looking for. It's not about, it's not a game of tag. If it's a game of tag, then it's how many times you tag them. But in MMA, when it comes to the striking, it's effective shots that have power. The judge is looking for damage. He's looking for big shots that do damage to that fighter. That's what they're looking for first. Then they're looking for quantity.

The Nick Diaz land a bunch of shots, but I'll tell you, being someone's been there with Nick, he lands a lot of shots, but then he'll land ones that have power too, but we'll give over a couple, if we're going to say two powerful shots, he landed the whole thing, but this guy landed 43 shots. Well, the 43 are going to win. Quantity is going to beat the quality and that because it's so much. But this is what the judge is weighing out. Then you get into the grappling and you have all these people thinking that a

takedown is this giant element in the fight. It's not. It's what you do with the takedown. That's the element. If you take so many down, there's a way to get points on the judge's score. I believe the points you get for a takedown. There's not a specific point thing, but it's what type of takedown do you hit them with? If you get a takedown where, you know what, you work and all of a sudden you, you know,

I hook, you know, hook the leg inside trip and then we both go down. There's nothing really that that takedown did other than change the level of the field instead of us being now both vertical or both horizontal. So what are you going to do with that takedown now that we're on the ground? That will let the judge say, okay, I'm giving you that was a takedown because now you're doing good work on the ground. You get credit for that takedown. But if you take the fight down and you don't do anything with it, it was no

different than if we're in the standup and I take this great angle on you and I go to throw a shot and it misses and nothing, I don't get credit for the angle I took. I get credit for what I was going to do with the angle. Same thing with a takedown. Now we can have a takedown where, you know, I get a hold of you and I get behind you and all of a sudden I'm suplexing you over. That's a takedown that has what we call amplitude. It has elevation and impact.

If we get a takedown that has elevation of the fighter and boom, he comes down and there's big impact, the judge is going to give a good score as far as they're going to put that into, you just did something that affected the fighter in the fight. I'm going to put that towards you winning the round. Doesn't mean, you know, if you don't do anything else, you're going to win it just because of it, but that is a takedown that's going to score for you with the judges. In their minds, that was significant. If you have that type of takedown, we have it, but we can have takedowns where I get

somebody really high and then there's a struggle and all of a sudden we end up on the ground, but there was no impact. So what are you going to do with it? That's what the judge is looking for. So when the judge is now looking, you take the person down, you stay in their guard and you put your head in the middle of the chest and you go body, body, head and you do that for a minute and a half. And this guy on the bottom is hitting with elbows and stuff.

You're not doing anything to win yourself the fight. The judge is not going to be giving you credit for that takedown because you're not doing anything that's impacting the fight. Now you take the fight down and you hit him with heavy shots on the ground. You make that person have problems. They're going to say that that was a good takedown that led to more things. They're going to give you credit for it. Frank Yeager comes once in every time Frank comes once in through a fight.

Frank Yeager got him with that little thing he has and he takes you down like George St. Pierre. What did he do with the takedown? Cub was in trouble. Right. Frank, he was on top of him. No, he's getting credit for the takedown. Okay.

This was an education for me. I knew nothing of this. I thought all takedowns were like Jiu-Jitsu. Four points to the top three. That's how confused I was. And that's what we'll get up. We'll get a lot of guys that come from Jiu-Jitsu and they're sitting there doing, but he got mount.

He did nothing with it. The judge isn't going to give you any credit for mount. It's not four points. All right. You get side control. You don't get three points. It's what do you do with the side control? What do you do with the mount in fighting, especially because of

strikes with MMA? There's a lot we can do with that mount. Well, just do it. Go after them. We're looking for the fighter to try to do things to end the fight. Your job is to go in there and from the moment the fight starts, your job is to do things that are going to cause you to be able to end the fight down the road, be it 10 seconds down the road, be it 20, be it two minutes,

be it 10 minutes, be it 15 minutes. You're always working to end the fight. That's what we want out of the fighter. Why doesn't the UFC just have rafts do the judging? Because they have a few rafts there. Like, why isn't it just not Ron Robin? Because the biggest complaint I've heard about the judges is that they aren't aware of the rules of the sport.

Like they're my boxing judges, so they might not know grappling. You know, and that's not true. Look at, that's not true. No, I hate to say it. You get these, it's like painting the broad strokes. Are there people, what happened with MMA is when MMA started to get really going with a lot of regulation, a lot of these states were not prepared to have people judging.

And so they had people that were martial artists or boxing people that said, I can do that. And because they were people that the Athletic Commission knew, OK, and they put them in there and those people had no idea how to truthfully do this the correct way. And so that caused problems. And it's taken a long time. But if you look at the people that are out there judging fights, you know,

now, you know, the Derek Cleary's, the Salamados, the Chris Lees, you know, all these people that are, you know, the ones that a lot of people are seeing a lot, they're very good at what they do. And they're very serious about what they do. And they're going back and they're, trust me, if I show you my phone after a big fight, if there's a decision, those guys are all texting me, John, did you watch the fight yet? Because they want to know it.

Did I see something wrong? Did I do something wrong? And it is the one thing that, you know, off of judging is judging no matter what, we try to objectify it as much as we can. But it's always going to be subjective. And the one thing that most people don't get is we get this where we have these judges, we put them at these three different positions in that, you know, cage, the UFC doesn't give them good seats.

They give one, a good seat. Two of them have the cage door, right? By them. So they got posts that are blocking their view a lot of the time. They have a referee that's moving around inside. So there's many times that these two judges are going to see something occur where this guy doesn't see it at all because he has something in his way. And that's, you know, what they're doing in that position.

It's, it's not the best seats that they can give them. The worst thing that we do is we put judges here down on the floor and we have this octagon that's up here. And so they're looking up the whole time. If you took them and put them above that octagon, they're going to see more. They're going to be able to see a lot more that goes on and they won't miss as much, but we don't put them up there because then they're blocking people's views and I can understand that too.

But, you know, we don't do our judges any favors in how we, you know, where we put them and what we expect of them. There's a lot that's expected. It is not an easy job and there's always going to be, when you're watching a fight, most times you have people that are, they're rooting for one person over the other. They want, if it's, you know, Frankie Edwards is going to fight, you know, Conor McGregor, there's, we'll say 50% that want Conor McGregor and 50% want

Frankie Edgar. So the, the 50% that want Conor, whatever Conor does, they give it more credit than it deserves. And whatever Frankie does is not quite as good as it really was. And so by the end they look at it, oh, it's easy. Conor won that when the judge is not, they don't give a shit who wins. All they want to know is for five minutes, I'm going to give constraints. I'm going to watch everything that I can.

And I'm going to look and I'm going to, I'm going to read what the fighter is telling me, because fighters speak, they're not talking verbally, but through body motions, they're telling the judges what hurts. Sometimes they do things that it really didn't hurt him, but they have this habit of doing something that's telling the judge it hurts by how much they'll give and give ground and, you know, flop back into the cage fence or something like that. And you tell them afterwards, dude, you're doing stuff that's telling the

judges that hurts you, that had impact. You got to stop doing that. But the judge is reading that fighter, because the fighter talks, you watch Johnny Case when he was fighting yesterday and you see him, you know, he's doing really good. And all of a sudden this kid throws a front kick to his, his body and he gets hit and you see him just do this and he sits down on it. That body motion is telling the judge that hurt.

It's going to get credit in my score. And those are the things that they're looking for out of the fighter. Do you get any input at all as a referee or no input into who wins? Yeah, like, no, no. Well, I get input when it's, oh, that guy does not, are you ever going to be able to protect yourself or what percentage of these controversial decisions could be fixed by those issues that you said the problem is when you sit there and you say controversial decision, most of the time it's not

controversial. It's a close fight. And again, you have half wanting one fighter and half wanting the other fighter. And so all this half says those judges were absolutely right. They're smart. That is a great job. And this half saying those judges sucked.

It's not, it's there are close fights. So the media is just feeding into that and saying it's controversial. Absolutely. The media puts it out there. It's a country. They go right away. You had Benson Henderson fought Gil Melendez up here in San Jose. Yeah, it's probably about three years ago.

Benson Henderson was a champion. Gil Melendez was coming out of strike force. He was the champion there and they matched him up. And it was a close fight. I was a referee for it, man. And I'm telling you what, at the end of it, I was like, thank God, I didn't have to judge that. Okay, because I knew it was that close and all the scores were the same, except

for one round, two judges went one way, one judge went the other. And Benson Henderson wins a split decision over Gil Melendez. One round is the difference. Same as Robbie Lawler fighting Carlos Condit. One round, one judge goes one way, two goes the other. That's the difference. And everyone goes, it's controversial. It's not controversial.

It's a close fight. And the judges are telling you it's a close fight by what they're seeing, and that's just the way it is. When you've only got three or five rounds, you know, sometimes they don't work themselves out, you know, to the end. I hate when people come, you know, after a fight, what'd you think, Joey? Well, how do you score it? I don't.

I don't, I don't know, even know where to start. And that's the best part is you sit there and go, dude, I don't know how to score a fight. I just, I just know how to enjoy it. Now a fight's coming to Glendale. UFC is coming to Glendale and I raised my hand. I want to be a fucking judge coming to Glendale. What's the process?

You want to be a judge? I'm just hyper hypodermic. Whatever the fuck this is hypodermically or hypothetically, hypothetically. I want to be a judge. I'm a blob. I'm a black belt and traditional karate. I've won a couple of competitions. I have my own school that a baby.

Okay. Let's pretend what is my process? The true process now here in the state of California, since Glendale is California, if you want to be, we'll say a judge. First off, that's awesome. We love the fact that you want to be a judge. So now we're going to tell you, okay, so what we need you to do is go to the gym and start learning everything that these guys are doing.

Okay. Everything that there is, you, I need you to understand the ground. I need you to understand every submission there is. I need you to understand what that submission is, what it's affecting and how it needs to be defended. I need you to understand the standup game. I need you to understand what those kicks are, exactly where they're targeted at, why they're targeted there.

What's effective, what's not. I want you to tell me exactly when we talk about standup, I need you to be able to tell me who's winning the standup and why, when we have these certain elements occur. So I need you to start going to the gym. And that's going to take you, honestly, you need to be there for several years before you're going to have an idea of what to do. I've been a martial artist since I was a, and I walked into.

Okay. So then, all right. So we'll say that you're a martial artist. Let's pretend I'm a black belt and traditional type one dough and a purple belt in your jujitsu school. Okay. Okay. I'm 35.

I competed a couple of times. I got a couple of gold medals, whatever. I love it locally. No, you couldn't come up with silver head family guy. I just want to, I want to know how the, the neighborhood additional martial arts. All right. So we'll say that you're a guy that's been involved in fighting like that. So you're that guy that's been involved.

So you don't have to start going to the gym. So now what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to pick and you're going to have to go to a certified course. All right. Here in California, there's only two that you can choose from. All right. That's going to be John McCarthy's or Herb Deans. Not your, not your gig, the judge, the guy who scores judging.

Okay. Okay. Here you go. So you got two courses that you can go take. You can go take Herb Deans MMA camp, I think is what he calls it. Or you can go to John McCarthy's command course. Okay. So if you're going to do that for judging, it's going to be a two day course in

mine. It's a one day for Herbs. So in the two days, I'm going to go through everything that is the criteria for you for judging MMA. We're going to talk about those things. We're going to talk about what the criteria is for it, what you need to be looking at, breaking things down into quality over quantity. All these things, demonstrations.

I am going to have you sit down and you're going to, we're going to go through submissions and we're going to go through, okay, look at this is what an eviscerator is. This is what a Vaughan flu choke is. This is what an anaconda. Here's a dars. Here's your arm bar and we're going to go through all these things. We're going to go through takedowns.

We're going to go through, here's your double leg. Here's your single leg. Here's your Uchi Mata. Here is your Sianagi. Here's what Hada Ghosh is and we're going to go through all those things. And then we're going to start watching fights and we're going to put fights on that are fights that are going to demonstrate certain things that I want to point out to you.

We're going to have you judge the fights. We're going to have you talk about why you judge that round the way you did. We're going to talk about, you know, what you needed to look at. And then you're going to get tested on this. And you're in that test, you're going to end up having to, uh, in mind, you're going to end up having, you're going to have to take a techniques test. So you'll get 120 different things that are going to be put out there. This could be, you know what, a suplex, it could be, you know, a arm bar.

It can be an Americana. It could be positioned basically, you know, side control, uh, X guard, you know, mission control, all these different elements of fights that you see the element. I need you to be able to tell me, that's exactly what it is because you need to understand what you're looking at. So if you can pass that with a 90% or above, then you move on. And then you go to, you're going to have to go. And now you're going to take a written test.

The written test is going to be things that you need to know about MMA for, you know, the association of boxing commissions who governs all the regulatory bodies throughout North America. That's the test that, you know, we, they want you to have. So you have a written test, then you're going to take a test on a fight and you're going to watch a fight and you're going to watch that fight and you're going to judge the fight. And as you're judging the fight after the round, you're going to write down your

score and you're going to tell me exactly why you picked the fighter that you did in that round. What elements were that changed you from saying, I'm going to go with this fighter, I'll go to this one. And this is why this is what he did better. This is where he was, you know, the more effective fighter and you'll do that for a five round fight. And if you don't get, you don't get that score, right?

You, you're going to fail that. And so you've got to fail all, you got to pass all of these things at 90%. You pass that, you pass the course. And from that point, you can now go to amateur MMA. We, in the state of California, we have the camo, which is California amateur mixed martial arts organization. They do all of the amateur fights here in California and your name will go to their database and you can sign up to be an official with camo.

And eventually what they're going to do is they're going to bring you in as an inspector, someone that actually watches the fighters in the back, watches the taping hands, learns how hands are legally taped, all the different things that happen in the back. You're the one that's going to walk out with the fighter. You know, when they are going to the ring, you'll be in their corner. You're the one controlling their corner of things. They're going to start you out there and eventually they'll say, Hey,

we've got this show and we're going to have you shadow judge it. And you'll start shadow judging other judges. So you're going to sit next to the judge. That's actually the judge of it. And you're going to give your score while they're giving their score and you're going to turn your score in. And once your scores are in line where, you know what? You're judging things, right?

They're going to give you that opportunity and you can start to judge. And from that, you get to judge. You have to judge for at least two years here as an amateur judge before you can even think about trying to get a license with the state of California as a professional. And once you get the, if the state of California decides they're thinking about giving you that license, you're going to start doing that shadow judging thing again and going to shows on your own time, sitting next to the

judges and giving a shadow judge score until they see, you know what this guy does, we're going to give him a chance and then you're going to start off in the slow shows and your little small shows that you're going to be going to and you're going to be doing those for several years. And eventually if you've proven yourself and you've gotten to the point where you've proven that you understand how to judge a fight and you are in the upper scale of the people that they have. When that UFC comes to town, maybe after about six to eight years, you might be

put onto that UFC show. UFC Bellator, you know, yeah, one of those things. Yup. That's a long process. It's a lot more than people. No, I thought it was like a 90 day a year and that's why there was so many fucking bad scores sometimes. That's why I thought there was something, you know, from what you're telling me.

And what I'm thinking about, the only thing I could think about for bad scoring is which this is how naive I am about that stuff. Like I can't believe that you would judge a fight going 50% for Nate Diaz or 50% for Conor McGregor in your mind. I figure that'd be a way you to take that. No, no, no, I'm saying the fans 50% want Nate to win and 50% want Conor to win. So those 50%, no matter what they do, they kind of look at it and they're always, they're always siding with their fighter.

You know, the judge doesn't give a shit who wins. The judge is giving credit for what is being done in the fight. They don't care if Conor McGregor wins. They don't care if Nate Diaz wins. They care that the right person wins. And trust me, it's a huge difference. We did a thing here in California where we actually did a little, I did a small course and did a little teaching thing for the media.

And we're talking about guys from, you know, MMA fighting, ESPN, you know, guys that are, you know, the bigger, you know, MMA outlets as far as, you know, the media, they came and then, you know, they watched some stuff. We talked about it. And then we took them out of Bellator and we put them next to the judges and had them judge the fights. And afterwards they all said, I'm never going on the media anymore and saying, Oh, this is controversial because they got that feel.

They understood what it was like and the pressure that's involved. And they realized afterwards that, Hey, there's times that, you know, I didn't get to see that because the referee was in the way. I didn't see when that, that supposedly happened and it happens. That's just part of it. As the, you know, there's all these different things people are trying to do. Oh, let's put them in a room or something like that. Sound is a big element.

It's the same thing as what you were talking about with that boop. When it hit that man. That's all I remember. That's all I ever remember. What did that sound tell you? That his face was gone. That it absolutely hit him. Gone, gone, gone.

I didn't see it. I was coming this way. I heard it maybe 15 yards. And it was the weed, like everything he had caved in. Something I caved in. But that sound told you, Oh man, that had impact. Sounds important for a judge. A judge uses their ears to say that was effective.

That wasn't. And so, you know, all of this is not, there's nothing perfect. The problem is everyone looks at the UFC and goes, those are UFC judges. There's no fricking UFC judges. What the UFC does is they're smart enough. There's no UFC, the only UFC referees there is any, you know, if you want to say it was John McCarthy and Mario Yamasaki. Okay.

Long ago, I was working for the UFC. Before there was, you know, all the regulation. I was the guy that would, you know, go to the shows and stuff. And I was under contract with them. And then they brought in Mario after a while because they needed another referee and we were working for the UFC. But once, you know, this whole thing got, you know, bigger and stuff in state regulations, I couldn't do that anymore.

And that's why, you know, I worked for the state of Nevada. I worked for the state of California. I'm licensed in a lot of different states because if you're the state, if, you know, Andy Foster is the boss of California's athletic commission. He's the executive director. He has five bosses over the top of him that are the commissioners, but he's the one that's doing most of the legwork. And he's going to tell you straight out, you know, why do I put, you know, John

McCarthy or Herb Dean as my referee? Why do I want them? Because he takes the, they take the pressure off of me. If John McCarthy goes out there and makes a mistake in the big UFC, no one's going to look at me as Andy Foster and say, you screwed up. I make it by putting him as the referee. But if you put somebody in that is someone that a lot of people don't know or has less experience and they mess up, you know, you, you look at, you know, what

people are talking about with, you know, the Magny Lombard fight. Steve Percival is the referee. He's taken a lot of heat. Okay. Right now over that fight. And he's, that heat is now being secondarily placed on to the commission that's there in Australia because they use him. If, if you're Andy Foster and you use Herb Dean or John McCarthy, we screw up.

Everyone, everyone attacks John McCarthy and they attack Herb Dean, but they don't attack the state of California and Andy Foster because who else did you expect him me to put in there? Who's going to be better? And so, you know, that's what the UFC looks at at times with people, they try to get these athletic commissions. Hey, we will pay. The UFC is paying for my travel, for Herb Dean's travel, for Sal D'Amato's,

for Derek Cleary's, wherever it is, you know, when I, when I travel somewhere, the UFC is paying for my, my plane ticket. They're, they're paying for my hotel room because they're wanting to have these people that they believe in, that they, they believe, understand this sport to the point where the chance of the mistake is going to be less. And so they're willing to do that, but they still can't force that on these state regulations and these, these athletic commissions there. So you can have an athletic commissions, we'll say, you know, we'll say

North Dakota is going to, the UFC is going to do a fight there. They're going to have people that have been working there in the state. Now the UFC is going to say, Hey, you know, we have this list of all these people. You can pick who you want, but these are people that sometimes come to our shows. We will pay for them to come. We'll pay for all the stuff. You just have to, you know, pick which ones you want, but they can't force that state athletic commission to pick any of them.

And the state athletic commission is there and say, Nope, we're going to go with all of our people and that's what they'll do. And then hopefully nothing bad happens, but if something bad happens, then it goes back on that person. And then the state athletic commission is looked at as bad. So there's, there's this weird balance of people doing things, you know, trying to get, you know, people that they like, you know, you look at what happened in Massachusetts with the Matt Mitreon fight.

The person that was the referee there is from Massachusetts. He doesn't do a lot of fights. He doesn't do a lot of shows. There's not a ton of practical experience over and over. You know, I'm doing, I do usually two shows a week. You know, if you, if you're doing six shows in a year, there's, there's a, a difference there as far as just repetition and being able to, you know, be more up on things.

And so that's what happens with these places though. UFC, Bellator, they can't force these commissions to bring in these referees or these judges that are the guys that have proven themselves to be the higher standard of the sport. I've learned more from this podcast. And now I can, now I can say, you know, because the only problem I see is I like the idea of raising that you're absolutely right. Well, couldn't they just watch from like above in like a skybox or something?

You know what? And this is the whole thing. Again, sound. It is. It's sound, sound. I was there when Johnny Hendrix knocked out John Fitch. Yeah. It sounded like a fucking firecracker went off.

You know, I was there when what's his name kicked. And I had judges like those are the best seats for me. When Anderson kicked, what's his name in the face? Those are the first ones that Joe didn't get his floor seats. We sat on the sides and that was a better seat. I saw everything. I saw little things that and then at home, you see a lot more who's not yelling, go fuck yourself.

Who's not falling on the stairs. Who doesn't have a, you know, big breast walking down the thing who's sitting next to you, look at what is. So you get distracted. You get distracted. Oh yeah, you do get distracted. You know, there's something about being at the fight. You know, Dana says it all the time and he's being honest when you say

in it, fights are electric, you know, the, the energy in the crowd. And I'm going to tell you right now, if you want to watch the fight, the best that you can watch it at home, but if you want to experience the fight, the greatest way to experience it is be at the, you know, be there because it's the crowd and the energy and everything there. You're not going to see the fight as clearly when you're there, but you absolutely will get the entire, you know, experience more by being there. The experience is beautiful.

Oh yeah. Lee, we went a couple of times, it's a beautiful experience as far as, you know, the music, the sound, the, the, the, how loud it is. Who, you know, you're right. Faber sitting over here, who's not sitting over there. You know, this chick from my name is Earl. Remember when we were going for a long time? Yeah.

Jamie Presley would always go and, you know, that's the, but after a while, like getting the fuck out of there is a nightmare. Like I had it down to a science. Once the fucking, the last fight started, the first round went all the way. I got up, Jack. You're right back. Where are you going? I'll be right back.

I'm like, go up to the top of the stairs and take my time and watch. And then the fight went to the third round. You always went into the hole when they got TVs and you sit there like a doctor. Nobody bothers you. And as soon as somebody gets knocked out, I'm out of there. I don't wait in the hallway. I don't hear about who got robbed. It's a fucking bum decision.

Fuck you. Let's take a picture, but the experiences are amazing. I know that I get lost sometimes watching stand up. Dave Chappelle's at the store and I go back there and I'm in with him for three minutes. I'm fucking with him, big John. I'm giggling. And all of a sudden something happens and I go away for 10 seconds. That have happened to you just 10 seconds.

Never happened to me. And then it comes right back and you're like, okay, you know what I'm saying? Like, and it's not that you drift. You're still watching it, but something goes away for a little while. I'm going to just come back like that. Like what Elise said, holy shit, look at that knockout. And all of a sudden you're on top of that. Oh my God, I would die.

You know what, as someone, when you're working on your intent and your whole thing is what people don't realize is you have a huge responsibility. And it's a responsibility that, you know, it's not understood until you're put in that position that I've had fighters, wives come up to me after their husband has lost and they've come up and said, thank you, thank you for protecting him. And you look and you go, hey, my pleasure, you know, and I can't tell you how much I respect the guys that I get to work with. What I get to do, you know, I'm honored by being able to be in there and do what

I do, but I take it serious and I take it to the point of I do care about the fighters. I do care that they don't take what I call unnecessary damage. A fighter is going to be damaged. That is part of being a professional fighter. It's part of what they sign up for. You're going to get hurt. You're going to, you know, there's things that are going to be done inside that cage. Sometimes, you know, nothing, you know, you're Conor McGregor.

You went in 13 seconds. You still got to cut over your eye. Okay. You're going to get damaged. That is part of what you signed up for with this sport. But when it comes to being damaged, there comes a point where it becomes unnecessary damage, and that's what I can't take. I can't have people being damaged beyond that one point.

And when they start to take unnecessary damage, that's when I'm there to stop it. And because as the referee, you know, there's a club out there. All right. And that club is of people that don't want to be in it. Those are officials that have been in charge of fights where fighters have come in, they've given everything they could, and they were not able to walk out of that cage or ring. They died. All right.

This is serious sport. This is a sport where people can die. And if you allow that to happen, now there's some things that can happen to their completely out of your control, but there's that point where, you know, you should have stopped the fight, but you let it go because of all people in the crowd and you wanted you to or whatever your excuse is. You let it go. That person dies.

You're going to live with that for the rest of your life. You will sit there and replay that moment of when you should have stopped it for the rest of your life. That is something that will never go away. And there's a lot, you know, I can start naming them off for you. There's a ton of referees that have been part of fights where a person has died and they've all taken their lives. They've all killed themselves because they live with that thought of, I could have done

that differently. I could have stopped it and that person might still be here. That's what you are living with when you're working in the combat sports. Now, let me ask you a question because it was intelligent. We dropped before Rory McDonald. At home, we saw a busted mount. We saw a busted fucking face. Sorry, Lee.

We saw a busted nose. I know he can't breathe. I see the gulps, the whole thing. You talking about coming into the fourth round when you're sitting there, any point you say to yourself, maybe I should just knock them down. Oh, the other... I don't know what the fuck is good. These motherfuckers don't know.

You know, you're there. You're there with me. You go to Ugiaki me and I land on one knee and I still have the underhook under you. You throw a knee or something and you see me go up and you see it hit my larynx or something. The people at home just see it as a strike. You know what's going on right now. Little things like that. Have you ever thought, oh, trust me, there's a fucking guy because he's getting in the

head. He doesn't even know what the fuck he's going to feel like tomorrow right now. Maybe I should just... You know, there's all kinds of things that are out there. People can think what they want. I'll be totally honest with you. My wife's sitting right here. She's going to know what I'm talking about.

But there's fights. I get people all the time, especially from the early days. I used to tell fighters all the time, look, if you get hurt, you need me to get you out of the fight. Tell me. I'll get you out of the fight. I'll take the blame. I stopped the fight, referee stoppage, and people would say, you're an idiot for stopping

that. He was doing that. I said, you're right. You got it. I'm an idiot. You know. But it was the actual fighter saying, I'm done. I can't go any farther.

And I'd stop it. And I'd say referee stoppage, TKO. I wouldn't say he would tap out. I wouldn't say there was a verbal. And I used to do that. And then it got to the point where the sport changed to the point where you couldn't really do that. But there are fights out there.

Paul Buantello fought a guy named Caril Sidilnikov. And Caril was, he was called Baby Fedor. And I used this fight when I teach now, too, because I did the fight. It was a fliction, too. And Caril was supposed to be the next big thing coming up. And Paul Buantello was just beating the dog shit out of Caril Sidilnikov. He was hitting him with a jab. It was a stiff jab.

And he did it from round one into round two into round three, where Cadill was cut all over. He was having problems. And I could see the problems, but he's from Russia. He's tougher than hell. His corner doesn't give a shit. They're going to send him out for the end. And it gets to a point where I have a little signal with my doctor.

I stop it for a mouthpiece coming out. I call time. I bring him over to the doctor so the doctor can check. But I give the doctor a signal, which is telling him, we're stopping the fight. And now I'm going to use the doctor to be my guy to stop the fight, because everyone looks at the doctor as the doctors are smarter than John McCarthy. And that's good. They probably are.

But if John McCarthy had just jumped in and waved his hands, people would have gone, no, and thought I was an idiot. But if the doctor comes up and looks at him and goes, no, it can't go. And I turn around with my hand the fight's over. Everyone's, they're good with it. And even in that fight, the commentators look and at the doctor comes up and they say, oh, the doctor's looking. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. You know what? Yeah. That was a good decision by the ringside physician to stop that fight. The drill had had enough. It wasn't the doctor, it was me, but I sell it off a different way because it makes it more palatable to the, you know, 14,000 people that are there. They see, they can't hear anything.

They don't know, but they see the doctor and they go, oh, there must be something a lot worse than I know. Okay. Our whole job is to look at a fight and try to let the fighter manage his way through it. But if they are absorbing so much damage that they can be damaged for the rest of their life with what's going on, our job is to get them out. When I went to the GSP, John Fitzgerald, and I went down the wrong way with Eddie, me,

Eddie and I, we went down the wrong way and I ended up being in front of the ambulance. They put John Fitzgerald, when they wheeled him towards me, I cried. I cried like a man. I fucking cried. I couldn't believe that he had this beaten like, and GSP didn't look that good either. GSP didn't look that good either. He was walking around. He was a champion, but he was fucking hurting.

I couldn't imagine that. I went home to the hotel, that man, and I was like, how do you want me to do that? Because I can't imagine that. Those are all the things that, you know what? Every, every week you're dealing with, because, you know, you look at, you know, GSP, how many times do you actually fight? 27, 30? Okay.

That's how many times you fight, you know, if that, that's how many times you actually fight. I do 27 to 30 fights, you know, in the month, easy. And I've been doing it for 22 years. So, you know, those are the things you look and, you know, I deal with this all the time, and I deal with guys and, you know, what is occurring in the sport. And our whole job is to, you know, become more evolved as far as what we do. And our job is to, if we understand that a fighter's in trouble, take care of the fighter.

Sometimes you can't. Sometimes they're in that position where they're actually, you know, in the, in the fight to the point where you've got to let them go. You know, there's a lot of things that I'll think about, you know, when I have a fight going on and, you know, part of it is, you know, in my mind, does the fighter have the ability to win this on the cards? You know, now I don't know what the cards are, but I have a pretty good idea if he's been getting his ass kicked.

No, he doesn't. Okay. What's best for the fighter? What's best for the sport? What's best for the fans? But what's best for the fighter always overrides the other two. And you've got to, you weigh those things out at times and then there's times when you're going to let a guy go because he has won this fight up to this point.

He has been winning this fight. You know that on the scorecards, this guy is, he's ahead. This is the fifth round of a five round fight. You know that he's won at least three of them easy and he's in trouble. Now you're going to let him try to ride it out because, Hey, he does have a chance of winning this, but you will not let it ride out to the point where what's the best for the fighter at this point. If he is not in that position where they are fighting in a competitive or intelligent manner

at that time, it's time to get them out. This has been the most shocking. I almost got sick. You don't miss Mac. I almost passed out before I looked at you. He was talking about blood and shit. I had to start breathing out of my fucking nose and everything. Hey, we were going to talk about MMA, right?

No, let me give some shout outs here. You're in a rush, Miss Mac. No. All right. Hold on one second. Willa Postolos, the Greek, JB Beeson, Alex Castino, Henry Henderson. Good to meet you last night over at Bakersfield. My man, Mikey Steiner, one by one podcast, Heisenberg, Uki Spooky, Andre Silva, the

Australian warrior, my main man down under, and I don't know what the fuck this is over here, but I'll catch you tomorrow when I figure it out there. What's up with you, Lee? How are you doing? This is an education. Yeah, it's amazing. Guys, I'm sorry. I didn't say much for a long time.

I was just recovering. I really was. I was like, hike the lumbar in between rounds. When you were talking about blood and stitches and going down his fucking lungs, oh my God, I almost passed out. You know, I'm really prone to all that stuff there. Now we're going to switch it off from MMA, because this is, oh my God, you fucking blew my mind, and I haven't set a peak since our phone call.

As you know, the hottest show in America, if you're over maybe 34 right now, the People vs. OJ Simpson, I fucking love it. First off, I'm a law freak, and he's law and orders. That's my shit. Law and order, SVU, I can't watch because of the rape and shit. I can't tolerate it, so I don't even put that shit on. I don't have the stomach for all that woman stuff. It destroys me as a VU, but law and order straight up, I will watch it for the trial

and sit there and take notes at two in the morning and ask, oh, you know me, dog. So when this came up, I wasn't going to watch it, but I worked with somebody and they said that they had shot this series, and when it comes on, make sure you watch it, the People vs. OJ Simpson. I went and watched it, I lived it, and they're like, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. They're like, this is what was going on behind the scenes and the racism and all the, da, da, da, da, da, da, and then I called John McCarthy and he just squashed me. He just said, listen, fuck you, fuck racism, fuck all this shit, all right, this is exactly

what happened. And when you said it to me, it made all the sense in the world because I've been watching all those shows lately about the football players, you know. So what was your take on this whole thing after six episodes? Let's cut through the chase. Well, I mean, as far as the show, you know, the TV series, my wife hates it. You don't like him? Why, what's the problem?

She lived through it. She's right, you lived through it. You lived through it. What you lived through? You know, the whole point is this, you know, I'm not big in the race. I mean, I don't give a damn if someone's purple, okay? You fuck up, you fuck up. That's it.

That's it, that's it. You're either a good person or a bad person, okay? The color of your skin, you know, your religion, you know, where you come from, I don't give a shit. Be a good person. I'll be your friend. Be an idiot and I'll be your worst enemy. That's, you know, just the way I look at life.

But you know, that whole thing with OJ is when, you know, in watching it, you know, you look at everything that occurred with it and, you know, you know, straight out, you know, not a doubt. OJ did it. Okay. He got away with it. Because of lawyers and because of people, you know, at a time kind of wanted to prove something, I think, in a way, I don't know, but when I look at it, you know, back when

I was on LAPD, they brought the pictures of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, brought them up to us because we were supposedly the experts in there saying, hey, what, what, what would do this? You know, how big of a knife? And I remember looking at them, you know, the autopsy photos of her and the actual crime scene photos of her. I mean, he did a number on her if you look at it and there was a lot of violence there and there was violence with Ron and you could see defensive wounds on his hands and there

was a, there was a couple that was, you know, his eye on one of his eyes, he'd been poked twice. You could see with a knife and it was, you know, why? Because someone was saying if he was still alive, you know, they said, why, why would that be there? Because he thinks that he's still alive. So he's poking him to see that he's not, you know, and so, you know, you look at this and, you know, and I'm the first one to tell you, you know, back, you know, I was an O.J.

Simpson fan. I mean, I was a huge fan from when, you know, when I was growing up Monday nights doing it. You know, when he was playing for SC, you know, I was always a Notre Dame fan, but I loved O.J. Simpson, you know, and so it was okay if O.J. beat Notre Dame and then, you know, he goes to the pros and, you know, the 2003 or whatever it was, season or whatever. I can't even remember, I say 2000, 2003 yards, not the season, whatever year it was that

he did that. I mean, I was a huge fan. I even, you know, as an LA police officer, I stopped, you know, I was on a stop that he was part of and stuff and, you know, because he was O.J. Simpson, you know, I was, you know, hey, man, you know, let him go, man. That's the juice. But I look at it now and you look at what's come out in football and you look at what's you know, in fighting and traumatic brain injury and the CTE that has, you know, come

about and you have the show concussion that Will Smith just did the movie, you know, you have an idea of what's going on. But all of these football players, Junior Seau taking his life and Dave Doorson taking his life and Andre Waters taking his life, all with these problems of anger, depression, all of these things that we now know come from all of these repetitive hits to the head, all of these things that O.J. Simpson had for all of those years throughout his high school and college and then all the years of being a pro football player and he's close to 14 years as a pro.

He fits into the perfect category of this is a guy that is suffering from CTE and you look at the timeline, you know, he retired from football in 1980 and this happened in 1994, 14 years later. Take a look at what's going on with these guys and when they're having problems, you know, I'm not saying it takes away from what he did. It was, you know, absolutely horrible. It should never happen. But I think, you know, when you look at O.J.

Now, from what I hear O.J. being in jail, he's like a child. He has problems with memory. He doesn't remember anything. He doesn't understand why he's there at times and all of those things are exactly what you're looking at with a guy that has CTE, which explains that loss of control and that loss in that rage of what could lead to this one incident. I mean, how many fucking times has the cops go to that house?

Quite a few. She had six, sixty some different. Because when, when you said that to me last week, you know, when this went on, I was going through my own divorce. So I was taking a kill in that bitch myself. And this just fed into my fucking fire. You understand me? I mean, I'm dead serious.

I was going through Alan Bould on a, with a child in the middle. And then it was just, it would get worse and worse and, you know, money. And we've discussed, you know, but I followed it. Like, how can this guy do this? Who would, I mean, as soon as I saw the paper, I knew it was him. That's that whatever that Monday morning when I woke up in Boulder and I saw it, I had heard like years later, he'd be the one night and I just put two and two together. I'm just, you know, I, dude, I'll tell you right now.

I was one of the dummies to let him go. Okay. Back in like 19 and I loved him as much as you do. I loved him as a kid. I mean, he was everything, you know, I didn't want to believe it. But then, but when you see the horror of it, listen, you, you shoot somebody in the leg. You know, what that he shoots somebody is something. There's a big difference between shooting someone and using a knife and using a knife

a thousand times ahead and this and this. So I didn't know if there was two people involved, you know, and then I started, then I got to cut in the hand and I know that whenever you do anything for my criminal days, no matter what you do, something always cuts and you don't feel it because you're a gentleman's dog. Absolutely. You don't feel it to an hour later. Jesus, I need my hand.

I was hanging from a barbed wire one time with two cops and the dog chasing me. And, you know, I ran all the way home like nothing. I didn't know I want to take the glove off that it needed stitches and the whole thing. I didn't know. But my adrenaline got you there. So, you know, you get into a fistfight in the street, you get hit in the head. You don't even know what you got. You bleed from your head.

What happened? What are you talking about? Oh, shit. So I believe in, you know, something, especially when you use a knife like because the knife slips. It's not even that. You know, he's grabbing a hold and he's, you know, if you saw the thing, there was, there was multiple, you know, he had, there was a lot of punctures, which are straight out stabs and there was a lot of slashes, you know, and he slashed her across the, you know, I can't remember if it was left or right, but it was this giant

gash that went from almost her collar bone down here straight up to her ear. I mean, and it obviously the power behind it, because it, you know, it cut her trachea all the way through. It cut her all the way to the spinal cord, you know, to a certain cervical spine. So, I mean, there was a lot, if you're looking at it, you go, you know, that was a strong human being. A lot of people say, oh, he's an older man. No, he's, you know, look at, you know, I don't care if he's old or not.

He is a, he was an incredible athlete, very strong. And, you know, he could do that kind of thing, you know, you know, unfortunately, you know, we learned things this time go by and I don't know, you know, for sure. If, you know, this whole thing with CT is what happened, you know, and he had it, but I would bet that that was the thing that made him as far as depression on her being with someone else and just that rage that you lose it. And because your brain has lost the ability to utilize, you know, common sense and that rage builds and it goes because your brain has been altered.

There is a disease inside of it. It's based upon what he did for a career in football. It seems like one of the defensive main points is that the cops didn't, like, continue the investigation. They just focused in on OJ. Now here's the thing, what as a cop, if you have what they thought was a slam dunk case, are you still going around like looking for something even though we have the guy here, but we still have to like look around the corner.

You know, you can look, you can go back and look at that whole thing and, you know, this is what they had. That's as simple as it gets. You've got, you know, two victims that were attacked brutally. Okay. You've got Nicole's, you got Nicole's blood. You've got Ron Goldman's blood. And OJ was cut on the finger, but, you know, let's not say that we even know it's him.

So we have Nicole's blood and Ron's blood at the scene. We have OJ Simpson, who's got a Bronco that is seen leaving the scene, but the person went and did stories so they didn't use them and things, but it is seen. They go to his house. There's blood inside of his Bronco that is the blood of OJ Simpson, Nicole Brown Simpson, and Ron Goldman. Now OJ Simpson wasn't a friend of Ron Goldman's. Didn't know Ron Goldman.

Why would Ron Goldman's blood be inside of his Bronco? Doesn't make sense. If you, in his house, in his washing machine, he had all three bloods that were in the washing machine. Why were they, why were they in the washing machine? Because he was washing the damn clothes that he did what, right? In his bathroom, there's all three bloods inside. Now, if you want to sit there and think, this is the part that I love, you know, it was a

police conspiracy. Let me make this as clear as I can for you. Okay. I was a police officer and there's not freaking two of them that can hold a story. Okay. To sit there and think that the police conspired against OJ Simpson, this person that was this, he was an icon at the time, okay, doing all the different things in the movies, the sports, you know, Hertz rental car commercials, all that stuff, and you're going to get these

lowly police officers that are going to conspire to try to say that he did something when there could always be something coming out saying, no, here's the truth, boom, which only puts them in jail. All right. Yeah, sure. The police conspired to do it because police are so good at, you know, sitting there and holding on to this little secret and they're going to do it. It's the most ridiculous thing that anyone could ever go with.

Policemen are the first ones to roll on each other. You'll get doctors. You'll get lawyers that sit there. You know, police officers roll on each other all the time and you say, everyone says, oh, there's that blue, you know, that thin blue line. Bullshit. Okay. Doctors, if I'm a doctor and I know that Joe is a doctor and he sucks as a doctor and

someone asks me, yes, he's a doctor. I don't sit there and roll out. I'm saying that he's doing crooked stuff or anything like that. I just let it go. Lawyers, you know, they don't sit there and roll on each other. No one rolls on each other like police officers, but police are going to sit there and try to conspire to put OJ Simpson in jail for a double murder. Sure.

Just fucking nuts. It was interesting watching it. I kind of, to me, seemed like Blackjack where I learned, like, at first, you think you're trying to get to 21, but the whole point is to, like, have the dealer bust. Like, you're just trying to beat the dealer. The thing with the trial, it seems like everyone's trying to beat each other, but the whole thing is just trying to get the jury to think that maybe there's another scenario. So it didn't, it didn't even matter that the cops probably could have never done that.

It's an education. There's no, the way they did it, they passed off the blood. They had tubes and they took it home and they pour it into another one. And that's too much. That's too much. Listen, if there was one bad apple, I could understand. But three guys all that time, and you know what, man? They got the fucking Yankees against two regular prosecutors.

They got the Yankees. They got five of the most powerful fucking minds in law to attack you. Like they said, you know, this show is written, but I think it's written from, like, a lawyer's perspective to highlight how the attorneys bluffed these motherfuckers. You know, just bluff them. Just bluff them with magic tricks. It was just a bunch of magic tricks. It really was.

The whole thing, if you look at it, you go back and watch the trial. First off, Ido was about a pathetic individual as you could get as a judge. Okay. He lets stuff go. You go, you're an idiot. Okay. You know, you as a judge control that courtroom. The same as a referee controls a fight.

You're letting people fight, but there comes a point you go knock it off. Okay. Straighten your stuff out. Points, boom, whatever you're going to do. That's your job. You're the referee of this trial and he allowed just minutia to go out there because he didn't want anyone to go back and be able to say that he didn't offer the ability so it could go to an appeal.

Look at a murder case is always going to be appealed. That's just what happens, especially if you're someone that has the attorneys that he has, they're going to appeal. So what? That's part of the process. Let them appeal. Your job is to do things straight down the middle. And they gave a writer a front row seat.

Why would he do that? Why would he do that? Because he wanted to be famous. It was about Lanceto. That whole trial became this is my trial. It's not your trial. It's the people's trial, but you became involved in wanting to be bigger because of this thing. No one gives a shit about you.

It's like being a referee. No one gives a shit about John McCarthy. It's the two fighters that are important. Let that be fair. Let me make sure they're doing things right. Let it go. The decision came out like 10 o'clock in the morning, right? 11 o'clock in the morning.

What was the fucking mood at the police stations around? Oh, we knew. You guys knew going in and around? Yeah, dude. You know, look, it was his, you know, look, he did it and he's going to get off. Okay. And that was, oh yeah. There was not a doubt in our minds.

We were going to be shocked if they found him guilty. At the time, I really thought they were going to find him guilty. Like at that time, I didn't have any doubt in my mind that he was going to there was just too much fucking evidence. There was just too much evidence, I thought. Yeah, downtown LA. There you are. That you're looking everything.

If you look at that trial, you know, the one thing they didn't bring out in this whole TV show is, you know, Gil Garcetti was the district attorney for city of Los Angeles. Okay. And OJ, that crime where it was committed is in Brentwood. All right. That's West Los Angeles police as far as, you know, division wise for the LAP, it's West LA division.

And all those preliminary cases of everything that happens in that area goes to Santa Monica court as far as, well, it goes to first to West LA for preliminary. And then if it's found to go to superior court, which it would have, it would go to Santa Monica court. But Gil Garcetti, because he wanted his face on TV all the time with this, and he wanted it present, he moved it from Santa Monica court, which is where it should have been to downtown LA. It changed the aspect of the jurors that were going to be part of it.

You know, OJ was a person that lived in Brentwood. You know, those are the people that, you know, should have been the ones that were sitting on his jury, but they went and they moved it to downtown LA. So they took the pool, came from downtown LA juror selection, and that's what you got. And that's just politics of, you know, a DA looking at this like this is my chance to really shine and to put myself out there and to be on TV, because now I want to be mayor after this. And this is what he got for it.

I felt so bad for Darden when he went for the glove try. I just didn't feel, oh my God. You look at that and it's like, come on. The gloves were soaked with blood. Okay. So they're soaked with blood first. Then they're put into testing by the labs. And so there's more fluid that's being put on.

What happens to leather when you put a lot of fluid on? It shrinks. Oh God, you're a rocket scientist. I couldn't fucking believe it either. I couldn't fucking believe it either. I'm sitting there at home going, this isn't fucking happening. And then it's not only does it shrink, you're going to put a rubber glove over someone's hand to try to get it in there.

It's like the stupidest. And if you watch the original, not even the TV one, the original, he's fucking acting, boy. Of course, he's an actor. He's fucking acting. He may not be a good actor, but he's acting. He's acting and he's fucking going like this. Dude, it reminds me, the best representation I got of that was there was a fight in Japan. Bob Sapp was fighting Jerome Labaner.

It was in the K1 organization and I was there to do a fight. And Bob Sapp and Jerome, we're going to do this. We're going to do kickboxing in round one and MMA in round two. And then if it's kickboxing three and MMA in round four, it's going to be this four round fight. And Bob Sapp almost gets killed by Jerome in the first round, but he makes it through it. And so then they change the gloves from kickboxing boxing gloves to MMA gloves. And he goes through the second round and he takes Jerome down and he's mounted on Jerome and he's hitting him with these giant fricking hammered gorilla fists.

He's doing this thing, but he can't get rid of him and it goes to the end of the second round. And so now they're going to go back to their corners and take the MMA gloves off and put the boxing glove on. And Bob is, I'm tired. He'll get me out of this. And he's got Sam Greco and Maurice Smith in his corner. Sam's slapping him going, you're not quitting, right? Gives you another.

And they've got these four little Japanese guys trying to peel the gloves off his hand. But then when they're trying to put the MMA, Bob Sapp's doing the OJ, man. His, his hand is splayed like this. It doesn't fit. It doesn't fit, right? And they're trying to shove this boxing glove on his hand. He goes, it doesn't, it's too small. And it was like, hey, he's got the OJ thing down.

Perfect, man. Fucking Bob. So he's awesome. Bro, always an education to have you on there. I'm blown away. I was blown. I didn't know how the point system worked. I didn't know how they were seated.

I've been confused. That's why I don't talk about it. I don't really get involved in it because I knew there was a, by the way, involved in this whole fucking thing with the judges. I didn't know for sure. You know, I was under the impression that, but I knew I couldn't be that stupid. And I know the commissions couldn't be that stupid.

I was under the impression that you just raise your hand. They put you through like a little train. Yeah, there you go, man. You sit and then you talk to them for 10 minutes and there they are. Yeah. And that's why all these bad fucking calls or whatever people think. Like I said, if you get beat up or whatever, well, it's there.

It's all the cards. I don't know. I don't fucking know. You Lee. I have no idea. I have no idea. Look at the shape of fucking Lee. What's next for you, my big brother?

For me, you know, I'm just busy. I'm going to be working here for going to, what's the Philippines coming up next week? So I go there to do fights. I go to Italy. I go to all over. I'll be, I'll be doing like five different, six different shows and April here and just having a good time.

I just, I'm just lucky I get to do what I do. You look good. You're healthy. Mrs. Mack, you go to the Philippines a little. She's going with me. It's really Italy. Okay. All right.

Mrs. Mack. She cost me money every goddamn minute. Hey, listen to the Philippines. You got to those little, those little pigeons, but you got to eat the pigeons. You got to eat the pigeons, okay? And no fucking around. We go deep in the Philippines.

You got to eat the pigeons with the little foot sticking out. They're still clucking in there. You got to eat it. It's half alive. Lumpia. That's what they call it, right? I know that one. What's the one called Baloo?

Baloo? Yeah, they got a bunch of weird shit down there. You got to take shots to go down there? No, no, I don't have to take shots to go down there. They're the nicest people, man. Nicest people, man. I mean, they're so nice. Family oriented.

Yep, great. Worst traffic in the world. We even worse in LA, man, by far. Oh, you've been there before? Oh, yeah. Okay. Multiple times, but yeah. It's a, it's a great place, but great people.

Man, that's horrible traffic. How's the food? I love the food there. I love it. You eat monkey and all that shit. I don't eat monkey. Don't be bullshitting me. There's no reason to eat monkey, dude.

You see the monkeys there? Oh, yeah, dude. Oh my God. If I saw a fucking monkey in the street, Mr. Mack like hanging like that, you could, I'd die. I would die to see somebody like a monkey. Remember faces of death when we were young?

Oh, yeah. Remember they broke the monkey's head? Lee, you ever watch faces of death? No, I'm not going to watch faces of death. It's a little Hannibal Lecker thing, man. Fucking craziness. They took a monkey and they put him in a table and his head was out.

And you just beat him in the head with the fucking hammer and then you eat his brains or something like that. One of these foreign countries you went. Yeah. I'm out. I think they do it over at Magnolia where you get those tacos over there, those lizard fucking tacos.

Every restaurant I go to, he has a different animal and I'm eating this here. He's been convinced there's a lizard taco place. The dumplings are made at Kants. Listen, Emilio, I very told you last week that what was the percentage he said of fucked up meat is found in L.A. at the restaurants. They even have a percentage when they get tested.

He ain't bullshit and he picked your restaurant out. No, he didn't. You get the fucking dumplings down there. You come back with a different look on your face. Tell me that you're dead. No, they might not. His dad came from flight, took him for those tacos. I said take him for a nice burger or a trout burger.

No, no, he takes up the tacos, the lizard tacos. The guy's home for three days, shit in blood. Can't leave the fucking house. They got to take him for a di-comedy. What'd you take him for? Well, they put the thing, the coffee in his ass. An animal. I said, no, it's a...

No, the other one. A colonic. Colonic. You took your dad for a colonic? Yeah. What kind of dude? He couldn't go to the bathroom for four days. He went to the wholesale sushi.

He got sick in the sushi. It wasn't like a father and son colonic pass. That'd be weird. That'd be weird. Give me some paperwork, will you? The show's always sponsored by Anet. I love these guys. I'm waiting on my new shipment of the Doche protein.

I didn't even know Doche had... Doche's like the man of a thousand things going on. He's doing jumping jacks. He's making his own fucking protein. He's got good books. I love them. You cannot take it away from Anet. He's on Twitter at eight in the morning, pushing deadlifts.

People on there. What should I do for cardio? Deadlifts, you fuck. That's a deadlifts squat. Squat till you die. Squat till you die. Anyway, no, no, no. He's got some stuff going on with Anet.

So before we talk about it, I'm going to wait for my shipment. But you know what I mean? I live on the Shroom Tech. I live on the Alpha Brain. I even had to give my wife a couple fucking Alpha Brains yesterday. She gave me apple juice by mistake with sugar in it. Sometimes she thought it was fucking green tea. I go, where's your head at?

It was right in front of you. I just gave it to the baby. The baby likes apple juice. But, you know, Anet is always, it always works for me. Not right now, but it always usually does. Go to Anet web page and see the great new selection of proteins and supplements they have right now. Go to Anet.com.

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Both from time to time. You know me. I drink a little red wine. Do I know what the fuck I'm drinking? Not really. You come to my table and you want, you know, you want Pierre Cardin 1684. I don't give a fuck what it is.

Just kidding. Because I don't know what it is. I just drink a little wine. I get hammered. I don't drink. But I enjoy wine. And my wife has it with dinner or whatever. But again, what's the toughest thing?

After a long exhausting day, all you want to do is sip a glass of wine and relax. But unless you plan to head you, you probably don't even have a bottle of wine in your house. You already spent enough time bonding through the grocery store, looking for bottles. You don't know what to drink.

You're calling your friend. He's not answering the phone. You know, you get lost in the wine now. You just end up picking a bottle based on a label you don't really even understand. Thunderbird. Yeah, thunderbird. You go home.

You open. You realize it's like a Chardonnay as much as you thought. You don't like Chardonnay as much as you thought. All right. What I'm trying to say is this. All right. Go to Club W. With Club W,

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That's it. That fucking drama is over. Big John. I love you to death. I want to call next week. I'm going to Paducah this week. But the week after, I'm in home all week. I'd love to come on the podcast.

You're going to come on the podcast. Yep. I'll come up to you. Because I got to go to... Tell me when you're ready. I got to do something like that Tuesday. Like at seven in the morning. Rico and fucking Mambo.

I got to do radio. So I'm up there. There you go. That's all right. So I have a few tacos. That's a nice taco neighborhood. And right from there I shoot up to your place. What are you taping?

Most of the time I tape it right in my place. Okay. The other guy is way out in Kansas. But it's all right. No, we'll go to your house. There you go, man. And I'll take you out on the boat. We'll go out.

Look at some ocean. No, no, no. I got seasick. Come on, baby. We got to go look at some whales and dolphins. Let me tell you something. I don't know what happened. I went swimming a couple months ago.

And I went on a plane that fucked up my ears. And I've been getting car sick. But it's hereditary. Because the baby, I can't take her nowhere. I could take her locally. If I take her in the car and we go for a little ride, she gets car sick. All of us had it.

So we got to go on that drama mean shit. That's no good. But this last week I've got car sick three times. All downhill. Not uphill. I don't know what the fuck's going on. I got sick on the way down Laurel Canyon, on the way down from Bakersfield down the fifth.

I got sick last night. And I got sick the other day going into town on Laurel Canyon. But it's always downhill. So if something's going on when I'm sitting like this, I got to get like a fucking straight car or something. We figure it out cocksucking. John McCarthy, I love you, Mrs. Mack. Looking better than ever with the fucking head.

Dude, look at you, John McCarthy. Moving out the fucking nada here. Look at you. You're savage. Lee, what are you going to do? Sit there and stare at me. Everything all right over there? Everything's great.

What's going on with you tonight? We going out? Sure, let's do it. We got Ari Shafia's story telling show. You coming down there tonight? Hell yeah. All right. You all right?

I'm doing good. All right. Thank you for listening to the church. We'll be back Tuesday night. Don't forget about us. Stay black. Have a great day. God bless you.

Have a great Monday. This show was brought to you by Me On These. Get the subscription or a single pair. Get 20% off of your first order when you go to Me On These.com slash Joey. That's Me On These.com slash Joey. And please don't forget, the shipping is always free in the US and Canada.

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Go to On It.com and use Codeboard Church to get 10% off all of the great optimization product like Alphabrain and New Mood. Do you want to just end with, uh, I want to be around? And I want to be around Tony Bennett, you bad bitches. Just like that, Lee. What do you think you're dealing with, Joey Menendez? I want to be around to pick up the pieces

when somebody breaks your heart. Some somebody is twice as smart as I. A somebody who will swear to be true as you used to do with me. Who'll leave you to learn that misery loves company. Wait and see, I mean I want to be around to see how he does it when he breaks your heart to bits. Let's see if the puzzle fits so fine. And that's when I'll discover that revenge is sweet.

As I sit there applauding from a front row seat. When somebody breaks your heart like you, like you, profile.