Uncle Joey's Joint with Joey Diaz - #554 - Gordon Warnock

Episode Date: January 30, 2018

Gordon Warnock, a literary agent and publisher who is working with Joey on his book, joins Joey Diaz and Lee Syatt LIVE in studio. This podcast is brought to you by: MyBookie.ag - Join now and MYBookie.ag will match your deposit with up to a 50% bonus of your first deposit. www.mybookie.ag. Use Promo code CHURCH to activate the offer.   Blue Apron: Go to blueapron.com/JOEY to get $30 off you first order.  Onnit.com - Use Promo code CHURCH for a 10% discount at checkout.   Recorded live on 01/29/2018.


greetings from podcast value filthy animals this podcast is brought to you by Blue Apron the leading meal kit delivery service in the United States and while many people know what we do many don't know what types of meals you could eat when you cook with Blue Apron. Blue Apron delivers fresh pre- proportioning ingredients and step-by-step recipes right to your door that can be cooked in 45 minutes the menu changes every week based on what's in season and customers can pick two three or four recipes best on what fits their schedule now listen what we do Blue Apron we're gonna take care of the

family you're gonna get $30 off your first order when you visit blueapron.com slash joey again that's blueapron.com slash joey check out this week's menu and get $30 off blueapron.com slash joey Blue Apron a better way to cook now unless you live in a fucking cave unless you live in a fucking cave you don't know what's going on this weekend but let me tell you what's going on this weekend everybody's worried about North Koreans sending missiles and this guy in the Russians and who gives a fuck this weekend two fucking powerhouse states are gonna go up against each other and that's in New England fucking Patriots

aka Boston against Philadelphia aka what's Philadelphia and Pennsylvania okay these are two US powerhouses you understand me and this is how we make fucking money are you thinking of getting paid this weekend is the way you're gonna get paid the big game is here and it's time to cash in big and bet the game with my bookie.ag if you haven't checked them out this is the motherfucking weekend to get into the action have a hunch who's gonna win the coin toss or what color the Gatorade the winning coach gonna be wearing log on now check out the props and get it on the fucking action don't just watch the

game lay some Geeters down invite some hookers over get your pipe sucked and watch the fucking money grow join me and thousands of online players and start betting on my bookie.ag now join now today right now let's get the parties started white fuck around you're gonna score free cash to play Super Bowl wager on the house right now my bookies giving away up to a thousand dollars to every new player all right you understand me sign up today to score an instant 50% bonus on your first deposit that's right if you join with a yardstick that's a hundred hours for you Gentiles you get a hundred and fifty to play with

use promo code church CHURCH to activate this offer that's right that's Uncle Joey Rose go ahead turn over to your little fucking girlfriend have a pinch to see if you're fucking dreaming you give me a yardstick I'm gonna give you 150 to play with all right use promo code CHURCH to activate the offer and most importantly you play your win you get paid and that's what it's all fucking about take that fucking meal at least I'm gonna stay proud of you don't wanna fuck oh oh January 29th

church of what's happening now ah here we go oh shit What what I Won't even talk over fucking Tupac that drop is so fucking good Welcome to the church of what's happened now. Happy Monday. That's it. January's over. You're still in the same fucking predicament

It's your fucking dilemma. We're gonna help you out today. I get my main man brother agent Mentor my man Gordon Warnock and as usually the Christ killer with his little coke shirt on Fucking support in the anti-war effort of Vietnam Who gives a fuck? How you doing buddy? Everybody good? Everybody have a good weekend. Oh, yeah It's beautiful. What's better than loving especially when it's cold on the east coast and fucking 87 degrees Living like doctors out here today, and you're over there. We're in a fucking penguin suit. What are you doing? I'm saying thinking about shoveling the ice off your fucking attic anyway If you came to the shows at the comedy zone in Charlotte, I thank you

There were five great shows you guys were sensational audiences I want to thank the green guy with the green hair who gave me those fucking THC lollipops I was fucked up the first night and then the on the flight home I was kind of fucked up myself and that's it. I had a good weekend Charlotte. So I love you Thank you very much for making me feel at home. That's it brother. What's going on? Let me open up the door It's a little fucking warm in here. Hold on Yeah, that's crazy about charlotte. It's uh, it's been pretty cool because the last couple Times like I went to Austin with you. It's cool getting to see the other people show up from the podcast

It's really cool to have a full show Well, it's uh, it's been a family. It's like big that he's fucking family Thursday night was a lot of church I think friday early, which I mean they would they all come out man And I owe my my heart for coming out and that's it. So what's up with you g money? That's it man. Just uh out here spend some time seeing family and uh, take care of some shit. It's uh It's been a good trip. Good. Gordon. Uh for those who don't know is my agent aka mentor in the writing world We've been talking for four years now, you know when florin team was on here last week I said, I want to think you to write the book. He goes three years ago. I don't feel that fucking bad

It's a trial and everything. So he was in town. I figured I could get him on here Maybe you people want to write a book or you have aspirations of being a writer And uh, I think go ahead and open up your eyes and a lot of different avenues and stuff like that because it's it It's a really interesting Thing to do. I never I wrote comedy for years. That's great. You write comedy And then years ago. I started putting out a story a week on my space And it was fucking the hardest thing I ever had to do and it's like I tell people all the time Did you go to sam your french? I did I got you know, I got the book the day it came out

The new one the new one. I'm so excited. Yes. Yeah Well, he got a book for a commercial agent or whatnot, but when you went to sam your french Oh, it was crazy. How many books are in there? I'm writing. I'll write, you know what? You know what? I got a couple of the books. I got a book on uh, acting for tv commercials and I got a book of uh Because a couple people told me to try writing tv. So I was like, all right. I bought a book of uh, Seinfeld scripts just to see what like a good one would look like Like, all right, let's see what it was a written. They had they had plays there

I spent like 30 minutes there was awesome If you ever go into a store guys and you ski And you see a script for one of your favorite movies or a movie that you watched a few times And they wanted to 10 bucks buy it Take it home and read the script and see how it different that was like the original draft Yeah, and then you see the movie. It's pretty fucking interesting how it changes From the original draft because when you get it, you don't you don't know what draft it is When you buy it on the fucking like I bought good fellas. Yeah, and the godfather

On the road in toronto. They have a great store. Yeah, they have a store. They just sell scripts. That's so cool Every fucking movie you want. Well, I didn't know till I got home. I put together on my own That it's the revisions that you that's why the film is different than the script Yeah, and sometimes they'll do that too with a they'll publish a whole book that is just about that movie and the script and all the notes and Photos behind the scenes and all that kind of shit and it's like it shows you More than you get from just the page. It shows how that movie came about There was one from the godfather just came out a couple years ago and

A few others out there if there's a movie out there, you're really interested in yeah, get the script It's pretty fucking rad to read it and go wow I didn't see this scene in the movie and then you'll see it Somewhere else in the script how they moved it So if I wanted to be a writer like how many books did you see I'm writing Natalie? Oh my god, Jesus christ And it was cool because I mean Gordon. So you you were mainly in books. Yeah, okay So yeah, like that's they had stuff on that but then They had stuff on writing plays. They had stuff on writing. Yeah tv shows films

You know just becoming right and When I first got here like anybody else I lived in Samuel french. I really enjoyed the place. Yeah There's no have you been to them? I don't know if you maybe on the way home stop and you're gonna have a ton of traffic Shoot over lower canyon and look a left. Yeah, they have parking. They've the only place in Hollywood parking Yeah, they have parking and just it's a half hour experience And you know what the funny thing is they were all scams like I used to go there and spend the hundred by shoplift 50 Yeah, right because that they still have the labels at the door When you go to pay they have labels

So when you come to this town the biggest thing is getting representation So you go to Samuel french And you buy a book that comes out quarterly and it's called the agents Or the guide to commercial agents. Yeah, they have those for books, right? And if you go to page three You break it down each commercial agent will tell you what they're looking for hypnotist jugglers A guy with one eye a guy with missing limbs. I mean, they don't put it that way But in other words it tells you what they're what they represent what they represent stand-up comics You know that when they put stand-up comics, it's very gentle

That means that that means you could be a improv comic a stand-up comic or cleaner. Doesn't matter That's why talk Lee into if you live in LA you might as well go out for commercials because They're right in front of you. Yeah, it's a ride and you get to meet other people and you mingle and you Get to see people that now Go in for the same class as you They fit everything you'll go in for Lee. You see the same people there And now you'll see the commercial on air Right, so now you know he booked it and now next time you see him at the commercial with you

You start giving him a fucking dirty looking shit, you know, it's but you say hi, man. Nice to see you again Man, great luck. You're lucky on the commercial. You did great. So it's kind of weird When you see the finished product and what they were looking for Yeah, and it's it's weird for a guy like me because I moved here Working in post-production. I had no at all no thoughts of acting and everyone I talked to It's not like they're not mad at me But everyone I talked to is like you're gonna book at least two or three things right away because you don't even want it Because he doesn't know what he's doing one two. He doesn't need it. He doesn't want it

And three, you know, it's it's I mean he's gonna get pissed off eventually Some commercial auditions you got in there running an hour behind And you got to walk back to the meter and put a quarter in it Yeah, and you're most of them on Santa Monica and Fifth Street And they all want to see They always want to see your age group at 4 45 All right, that's why when that guy won the oscar He said by the way, I went to every audition

Even in Santa Monica at five o'clock because people fucking hate those. That's well known Going back to Samuel french when you go to Samuel french Guys over the years my first five years here. I don't have to lie to you I lived on couches and I spent 50% of my money on books in Samuel french And the other 50% on cocaine And if I know what I know now, I would have spent 100% on cocaine Because those books you get so caught up in reading them That you don't write

You keep thinking that the more books you read it's gonna come to you one day the hemmingwayism Yeah, right And it helps to educate yourself like that and get some of those books and and realize what's important to them to the folks who are Ultimately looking to sign you or buy whatever you're you're trying to sell But at the same time and you got to be an artist too You know, you can't be a hundred percent scientific about it. You know, it's you just got to have soul to it You know, it's weird that Okay, so I want to be a writer. I'm a write for the school newspaper in high school

I do the sports section. What's my next move jord gordon? Well, it depends on what kind of writer you want to be if you want to be a sports book writer Then you got to keep writing for uh sports publications write articles things like that If you want to be a novelist if you want to come up with your fantasy novel or whatever Then you got to start, you know working on your craft start reading You know what other fantasy books are out there that people are buying and see what they do And kind of you know, read them with a pen in hand and and see how they put this book together and And then it's just it's what you've been doing man

It's it's writing and rewriting and you know throwing that away and rewriting and just it's a process But you know, it goes through Over and over again with you and then you send it to people and they help you edit and all sorts of you know Back and forth with the agent with the publisher Um, and by the time it it spits out as a book You know, it might be very different from what you started But it'll still be something that you know, hopefully if if you You know still believe in that story and really want to get it out

Then it's something that is uh, you're gonna celebrate somebody like nick titura. Yeah, who's a yankee fan who knows every fact About the yankees He writes and let's say he writes an article to you And he goes gordon. I'm having a tough time making money. Is there any way I could write an article for somebody How does that process go somebody just wants to write articles? For like muscle and fitness or if somebody is an expert and whatever their field is or not even an expert Yeah, you've done it for 15 fucking years. You know what the fuck you're talking about You know, there's a trade magazine that you've been reading

50 percent of it is bullshit. You know what? Gordon before I became electrical contact tractor. I went to school for four years and I took creative writing Yeah, I've written some articles. I've sent them to you. They're not bad pieces of right, you know, maybe you could use some help How do you go about getting a job in those situations like Well, those are a lot of just kind of being on top of what you Uh What you're writing into like the types of of magazines that you're submitting to you need to also read those and and make sure that You're not sending something that's you know, too long or meander's optopic or whatever

You need to make sure that it's it's that specific style writing For say sports illustrated versus espn magazine, you know, you kind of tailor it toward that magazine's aesthetic and uh and from there I mean, it's a lot of a lot of submitting a lot of a lot of work You don't usually need an agent for these kinds of you know magazines and stuff like that It doesn't hurt But you don't need to uh have someone sending in on your behalf when it gets the book world

That's a little bit different, but when uh, if you just want to write Freelance, yeah, yeah, it's freelance. You want to be a freelance sports journalist or whatever then that's uh That's something that you do And you start small you start local You start writing, you know sports articles for your local newspaper or or what have you and then you build up a A resume and from there you kind of you know, keep going steps up until you get to uh to the big leagues Now are there writing colleges lee and i we're talking about a friend of mine. We're talking about uh syracuse uh

usc Emerson has a huge emerson. Yeah, you know that that you go to college and you Fucking come out of here because most of the agents i've had have either gone to syracuse university miami Uh emerson, you know, they're all the same now. Who are the writing? So i'm in fucking high school I'm not thinking about writing a fucking book like the kid i grew up with He's a nice kid. He wrote for the uh the paper all his life But since that guy cinderella man

What was his name since that guy grew up in our hometown? He co-wrote the book that eventually Was the movie that was made. I mean he sold the right. Whatever. I don't know what the fuck he did But he was just a regular sports writer like in uh, oh, yeah In uh, and in the hudson county paper. I forget what his fucking name is. I spoke to him about two weeks ago The um But cinderella man Grew up in north bergain. So the boxer or the yeah the box is so james bradding james bradding

I mean hudson county park is bradding park. Yeah, so we all knew little bits. I didn't know all that stuff about him But even he went he made the transition Well, you know what happened. He knew the knowledge Somebody else was the writer they got together and they co-wrote the book. Yeah, that happens a lot Something that I've been It doesn't it doesn't have to be writing but something I've struggled with and it it seems like something you must deal with on a daily basis is People who are writing submitting stuff to you want it to be perfect Want it to be almost be like a finished draft rather than like a rough draft

It's like how do you deal with coaxing someone through? like almost like To get past their perfection like perfectionism like that part Well, you do need a certain amount of drive and perfectionism too, but um at a certain part You got it you got to send it out, right? You can't sit on it forever and ever and keep making little tweaks And you eventually do have to let go and kind of be able to you know, let it leave the nest so to speak But you know how hard it is to send that work out

Yes The idea was how hard it is for me to send you something After I keep reading it and reading it and reading it and then you find the missing word and But it's it's it's it never ends. It's yeah, but now sometimes I read a book And I see a fucked up word and they go whoo I don't feel that bad the steak slip, you know that happens and no matter how many people they take Go through it and take a look at it. You're going to have some typos and finished products But that's that's the number one thing that whenever we have a phone call

I always tell you man, don't worry about making it perfect You know just get it out of your soul and onto the page and then we're going to work with it from there And we're going to edit and make it better and then you know the publisher is going to do the same thing so For you it's it's mostly a process of just you know Taking your heart out and putting it onto the the piece of paper and then From there we go back and forth and cut it up and all the rest of it, but it's uh Yeah, it's a process the worst is when like this last chapter I wrote like I did great with the other chapter

I outlined it in this chapter. I outlined the kidnapping This is the one after I turned myself in the day after the kidnapping and I outlined it and I ended up It It started off With the state of mind which I always like to include in there like what Was I going through and then I told you too much information? Once I looked at it it was finished and I go I'm not sending this out this middle piece I do not like this middle piece because

It kind of went into three different stories that I was missing the whole story the guy bailed me out You know, it was like the last person in the fucking world Like I hear I was beating the wrong bushes and all of a sudden I get a call and they're like My father wants to talk to you He just wants to come down and visit with you And I was like, I don't think it's a good idea and he goes I think it's a good idea and he came down asked me what I had done And he fucking bailed me out and I was like Jesus

And it's like I was telling Lee You know when you get out of one of those situations, I can't imagine getting out of an insane asylum Like let's say if you go crazy one night and they put you there for 60 days Because the feelings you get when you walk out of there You think everybody is watching you Everywhere I went for two or three weeks I had this think on me that everybody had known what I had done and I didn't make eye contact I would go to the supermarket in and out. I didn't talk to the butcher anymore

And it took me three weeks to You know, so it's really hard. That was what I wanted to get on paper But that's not what fucking came out on fucking paper because I get high sometimes I write at night My best writing is in the daytime, right? Yeah, sometimes I get so bored at nine o'clock at night. I go, let me give it a shot Yeah, and I get good I get two hours in or something and the next morning I wake up and I go, what the fuck is this? I gotta stick to my 9 a.m. 10 10 10 a.m. Writing, you know, well the the most important part is Actually doing the writing whether or not it ends up. That's it. That's it. Yeah, that's the muscle

That they don't tell you in any Of the books. Yeah, that you're not gonna get a perfect first time and that's okay. That's that that All you need to do is keep writing. Yeah, just it's just like the the thing I say about keep showing up Yeah, you're a fat fuck keep going to the gym Eventually it all clicks keep on but joey. I went to the gym and I gained four pounds. That's okay. That's right now But if you keep going it's gonna twist in your mind you'll twist your mind That why are you killing yourself to be a fat fuck and all sudden you'll start looking at your diet But it all starts somewhere. Yeah, it has to start with

Not potential energy, but kinetic energy energy and motion Well, that was my question for you joey because I know you wrote a blog before you started doing this but Like that's something that I've all It's you want it to be perfect so you don't even start like how long did it take you to start trying to write the book My problem with the book was and with anything I do I double question myself, right? Okay, I'm a I'm a human being I bleed just like everybody else and I have insecurities like everybody else You start double guessing yourself

At every level. I don't that's my biggest Fucking problem in this whole fucking thing whether it's fitness That's always been my biggest problem the problem. Yes, but also You know, that's kind of what makes you good at what you do what you do. Yeah artists I found Are way more introspective than the average person And so that could be a good thing help them come up with some really good stuff But it could also be a little aggravating kills you. I don't know kills me kills me guys

That's why I've been working a lot with my therapist on just noticing My patterns in life what I've done for 29 years how the situation changed But my reactions really don't like whether school work and I have to like I'm in the process of trying to kick myself like Just in just do something like This is off topic of books, but there's this guy this vlogger and Casey Neistat He's a great has millions of followers sold a app to cnn a couple years ago for millions cnn just closed it

He's back to vlogging And some people would look at that as a failure Which it it did fail a little bit, but he still made millions Like he still had that so like just seeing that really like was like wait There's never any fucking failure though. Oh, that's the fucking thing that What finally got me going with you with the book was i'm like this guy's the sweetest guy in the world He believes in me, but I don't believe in me How come I don't believe in you? You don't fucking believe in you

He's telling me the stories right there right at joey And for a year I would write three paragraphs and go he's not gonna like this And I just said enough is enough this book isn't gonna write itself Nothing right it's not on itself. You know, that's the thing about the arts karate jujitsu writing stand-up Along the way you get to find out about your faults And that's the biggest fucking hurdles that kills you the most to accept these faults and try to redo them Or to keep falling into that trap. That's what happens as an artist or that's what i'm a criminal

I don't know about the art what i'm trying to tell you is that that's your biggest trap Yeah, it's it's always it's it always has been for me Well, it's always there, but it's it's also, you know, again, it's beneficial because you have A whole bunch of people who it's their job to kind of tell you what your faults are And through their help you kind of you know become a better writer Yes, but then that that one product that you're trying to get out also gets polished up and And and good to go and and I mean you have a lot of people pointing out a lot of faults before something comes out and You know, it's all it's all for the best

But people pointing out a fault and you finding a fault Well, that's it's two different observations. It really is when you find the fault And you attack it some people I attack it, you know, I attack it like today. I called doctor. I gotta go for this tetanus shot I already can't Only once no no i gotta go for the tetanus shot and they're gonna draw blood the same day. That's a double whammy that means i'm going down Either one street or one bad street You know, I haven't let you flat I get the same thing man the intramuscular needles are the ones that freak

Me the fuck out because I could feel the serum going into the fucking thing Yeah, I fainted years ago from an ass shot Didn't even see the needle. I just bent over and never bent back up I just stayed there. They kept tapping me. You okay? You okay? I was fucking pale But so okay, so now I'm in high school. I want to be a fucking writer What college do I go to? What type of courses do I take? If if you want to work with a specific writer a lot of writers like literary writers are also Professors like one of my favorite authors Lancelsson works out at the the university of utah

And so if you write works like him and you want to learn from him then you apply there Or um, I mean brown is is uh, another really big one. That's very exclusive. Iowa is another one. I've heard about that one Yeah, yeah, oftentimes you'll see like when their uh industry announcements of an author gets signed or a book gets sold They'll say oh, they worked on this at Iowa and then you know that you know, it's it's really gotten a close eye but it's not So much the the schooling the education is uh, what you get out of it I've read some work from students of brown. It was complete shit

And some you know go on to become really well published successful authors You know, it's what you do with it rather than just what school you go to or whatever I mean, I know plenty of people who you know went to state schools or or didn't even go to college who You know have book deals and have writing careers. It's you have to have that drive How like similar to stand up How do writers get their work critiqued when they're not getting it purchased like how do you how do you like okay? Well, this is I because I'm I'm sure they don't send it back to you. Hey, we didn't buy it and this is why we didn't buy it They probably just say no, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, we can't really um

Give detailed feedback usually just because of the volume that comes in is just crazy. But uh It's you know, you have to work on it and revise it and do as well as you can And then you have to show it to other people So it helps to have a a critique group or a writing partner or someone who you you share work back and forth And you kind of mark it up and say well This is I was confused at this point or this character probably needs something else here They they are a fresh set of eyes that look over your work for you and that's the kind of working out process of You know, you going up on stage doing open mics or doing, you know, five minute spots or whatever

And it's that kind of thing and sometimes, you know, they're not going to be meeting and discussing your full manuscript it'll oftentimes be 10 pages or a chapter or whatever that they'll They'll trade and then meet up a week later and sometimes that's um, you know, that's how you work it out And it must be because I know joey's worked with a few people um And like for me when you told me about the peer group I started thinking about about school and how much I hated

Giving my writing to other people, especially if I didn't like them. I was like, you know, I don't care what you think about my writing So it must be pretty It like that must be an important part of it is finding the right people to work with because like if you send it to someone And you hate their opinion, you're like, well That doesn't I'm not going to learn anything. Yeah, and you got to find the right people too I mean if you find someone who doesn't know what they're talking about or if they're uh, you know, not your kind of Writer, they just don't know your genre. Then it's going to be

You know detrimental even getting bad advice is worse than getting no advice at all. So like I know the style of writing That I like as soon as I open up a book Yeah, like uh, the last 10 years or so writing has gone into this avant-garde That's too many words. What are you trying to fucking tell me? You know what I'm saying? It's too many words What the fuck you're trying to tell me? I'm very happy that you're intelligent And I'm very happy that you're insightful But it's too much guy just like, you know people send me books all the time and those are the books I read everything. I try to read

everything and like You know, my favorite authors obviously are Hemingway and Stephen King. I I love the The process of somebody scaring the shit out of me on paper You know Without even talking to you as soon as you open up, uh, kujo, you're scared, you know That's the first Stephen King my book. I read it in prison, you know I did that's the first book I read and diagnostic Why are you reading? Why are you reading horror books in prison? Because what do you think?

Hold on. What do you think they got a Barnes and Noble in there? And you still are in there with your credit card and go can I have the works of fucking now? They have a card a black guy comes up to you with six books Three of them are about basketball two of them about criminals and the other ones about world war fucking one You got a choice pick one fair enough. Yeah, and one of the other books I read that was very enjoyable was on wings of eagles It was the pseudo biography of uh to do with the big ears from texas That was ran for president. Oh perro. Bro. Yeah, Ross. Yeah, like that was just another great book

I read was uh the sound to the lambs. It was weird I used to only read books when I was a kid that had movies attached to him Because I wanted to see and then after a while I'm like, why do I do this? This is the dumbest thing in the world to read a book with a fucking movie Either watch the movie or read the book pick a fucking country and then now I read But it's funny like when I read Hemingway's biography I read Hemingway's biography when I lived in Aspen 83

I don't know the name of the book now. There's a lot of my buddy went to brown I think he's the one that gave it to me and the one I read It sounded so fucking insane like yeah, there was no Nothing in the book that described work Do you know what I am? like That's what pissed me off in hindsight Like I used to see hunter s. Thompson hunter s. Thompson wrote some great books

But I used to cop weed at the woody creek fucking tavern Once a week and I'd see hunter s. Thompson in there and from what I heard from people He was always in there. Yeah, when did he fucking time write the fine time to write books? Everybody was always party and all the guys I liked except Stephen King I read on writing and his yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, he blasts music and shit Oh, yeah, whatever he faces the window towards the fucking thing. Yeah It's very interesting But except for steven king's biography

Nothing and became the illusion of work It was like they went and got up and wrote three sentences. Well, it's the same thing went to a bar You know what I'm saying like that's like, you know with um Probably with any kind of art, but you know if you uh, if you don't know stand up you think that Some guy just gets up on stage and talk shit for an hour. That was me I thought that you just got up on stage. You said, hey, you mind taping my second I got some shit to say and somebody just came and hit record. This is gonna be good Yeah, but no, I always found writing to be

like How I wrote a joke for years was that I have an idea I wrote a tag for it and then I went to the comedy storm work to that Yeah, and that's why my career was shit Because I wasn't tagging. I wasn't really putting heart into it or telling a story Or telling the listener why I have this opinion on this subject compared to my life I wasn't doing all that, you know, yeah, and then I heard a special Where the guy's joke sounded like mine. He wasn't stealing or nothing. It was the type of jokes I was doing

And I realized how come he was so unsuccessful Was the same reason why I was so unsuccessful because our material was shit. Yeah, which my material I'm no comedy writer. I just tell you what's in my heart. I mix in a different way But even like when I watch like to me great comedy writers Neil Brennan Is definitely up there right now to me. There's some people who are just brilliant joke writers

Rogan comes into mind from time to time Uh, chappelle writes a different type of joke. I think but it's all their voice Yeah, they were talking about the same thing as when you when you're writing You um, the hardest thing to do is find your voice and that you can only do through repetition So like we were talking about uh, ralphie before the podcast said he last time he was on here. He talked about Um, when he first started doing stand-up. It was all fat jokes And he didn't really find

His his voice and what he was going to be talking about and he was just going to the easy way which is talking about his weight and uh, someone pulled him aside and and said hey, do you want to be Uh, a fat comedian or you want to be a comedian who happens to be fat? And so it's it's the same kind of thing of you know finding How you want to tell your stories what kind of details you want to focus on and just it's the same thing It's finding your voice. But here's the funny thing if you read judy codder's workbook Which i've never seen it perform. So when you read her handbook, but again The coach of the fucking chicago bulls was a horrible player phil jackson

And look what he became. That's why I don't I don't believe it any of that shit when people like wow This guy won the nationals or whatever. I did that. I like that. There's people who are just great teachers who know how to get it to you What are we talking about? Who we talking about finding your voice comedy writing and uh, and Well, yeah, I mean, it's I know that I mean that makes sense for Ralph. He may not only talking about his weight Oh, oh, so judy codder says that the second joke. Okay the old Uh blueprint. I'm sorry. Lee the whole blueprint

For comedy is that you open with your second best joke and you close with your best joke So you judy codder and her workbook Says that she wants you to open with your second best joke But she wants your second bet your second bit To be about the most noticeable feature you have You see now I disagree with you in a box. I wanted that at the end over the years Like I had a friend who had a glass eye And he did comedy

As you go on stage and he would say one joke and then he'd attack the glass eye Well, guess what now you gotta know where to go. Yeah After the glass eye, you need an explosion in your asshole to get him. That's it Because they laughed at the glass eye, you know, and he would do 10 minutes on you think I'm watching you But I'm really looking at the clock and it was all funny stuff I kept telling them dog. You're slipping. Yeah, that's your last five minutes You could keep adding to that like my friend Roger Rittenhouse has a fucking hook Okay. Yeah, well Roger Rittenhouse would come on stage

He'd address the hook But then later on he would do the thing about That his arm fucked up one time. He took it in the game of foot by mistake So he had a foot, you know, I don't like the Noticable thing. So there's two avenues to that So that's when you start first of all you have two Blockades when you start you have the blockade of if you're fat or skinny or ugly You've got a big nose or you're missing an eye

And you also have the blockade of Something else I was gonna tell you what the fuck is going on with my memory to that and take my alpha break You have two blocks. Oh You're doing who you admire. Oh, right. Yeah, like I think I don't know if it was you I sent you something in the beginning and you were like, I don't think that's gonna work because I was trying to be Stephen King what you were um You were you said something about You know, I'm I'm no Hemingway where I said, you know, good. I don't want Hemingway. I want Joe Diaz. Right, right

Yeah, it's um You know, yes, you're going to pick up some tendencies from some authors and and sometimes you'll hear some advice And uh in writing books that you know, it's common to say oh, don't use adverbs. They're weak words. Well, they are Weak words, but sometimes you need a little connective tissue or sometimes you need a little dynamics like Like Dean just reshot is special Because the first one was too good His uh cd taping the first one was just he said it was at 10 the whole time and he needed a little give and take And so he just uh just re-recorded his cd because the first one was you know crowd was too into it

That seems smart. Yeah it was um Just going back to like if you do you don't want to set yourself in a hole I'm sure but and I'm sure this happens with writers too I've been going to open mics and it's I like I enjoy seeing Like there's a guy there last night who plays poker. So he had a joke about that There's a couple guys who are waiters. So they had jokes about so it's you Even though they don't have the joke writing experience that Joey does

It's I can tell when they're writing a joke and when they're actually like Oh, this happened today. Yeah when I was working or the like and it actually you can see you making a bigger connection with it Yeah, and some of that advice that you'll hear sometimes someone will say write what you know And there are you know reasons to do that and reasons to not do that But it definitely is a source of of material when you have even if you're writing fiction And but you know a guy that was kind of a little certain way that you know, you want to make your character sort of like him You know, you you appropriate reality for what you're making up You know, whether you're writing fiction or nonfiction your life is going to influence that so it's going to be

You know something that will creep out onto the page. We'll get something like tj english for example We'll just throw his name out like I discovered from 98 To about 2004 I spent a lot of money on the road on barns and nobles. I would go to a town And if the condo was close to barns and nobles I'd go in there and just destroy they crude True crime section. Yeah. Yeah, I always loved whether it was a book on oj or something I always was mesmerized by those topics. I read

every mafia book that had to do from 1965 up I didn't really like the capone air and all that stuff and I read all of that In honesty with you because I always want to be prepared for those roles When I moved here and especially after the sopranos, I noticed I was always getting called in For mafia roles. So I read those books about different guys. That's research. So I could relate Uh A character to that guy. So when something like last week when I auditioned the guy's name was taffy

I give that guy a name. So his name is joey taffy taffarelli And I give him a background. So when I go in there, I have a certain thought in my mind To play that guy. Okay Let's pretend like tj english He's a fucking white little jewish guy from fucking the bronx that probably grew up around And saw mafia people, but he wrote a book about the westies Then he wrote one of the best books I've read for me

Havana nocturne And then now he's writing a book about Cuban numbers He grew up fucking white. He don't know nothing about Cuban numbers. So how much research goes into that like How much fucking like those those are that those are the things That have like cherry capisi He's a crime writer and he wrote a lot of new york pieces a lot of gaudy shit. Yeah They have contacts

Oh, sure. Yeah I mean a lot of it it depends on what you're trying to dig up But yeah, you'll talk to people and you'll you'll take notes You'll um, you know if you need to if you're writing about france sometimes It's it's beneficial to go and actually walk the streets How the fuck are you gonna go to france and write a book but that's what I'm saying like It's like, I don't know anything about half the shit Joe rogan talks about so I would never write a book about that stuff He likes martians and animals. Yeah, but he lives in that world. Yeah, he lives in that world

So I would never write about something like that But if I was I wanted to write something like that for example what happened with my buddy He grew up in north berg and he had all the knowledge in the world about Cinderella man And when they wanted to write a book around him, yeah, he wrote whatever and they consulted him. They used him as a consultant Are you I always see in movies or whenever you see a writer on a tv show They're always like going on a police ride along to do just just to like put themselves in that Oh, yeah, that too, you know, just whatever you need to

To get that firsthand knowledge, you know and and sometimes It's uh, it'll significantly alter what you're trying to write You know, you find the new story or or whatever I have a an author is working on a book right now and and the more research He does the more kind of twists off the original path We take but it's ultimately, you know, I'm working with him and we're making making it stronger It's going to be a lot more interesting of a book because of some of these side streets. He's gone down and and Turned it into a big, you know rope that we're all going to braid together and make this into a really interesting book So sometimes it works out in your favor and sometimes you can get distracted and

You know waste time, but you know it comes with the territory, you know out of all your clients Are they all college educated writers? No, no, no I mean some are yes and and some have you know been published in literary magazines and stuff like that but For the most part. No, they're just people who um who want to write and put in the work and and actually get those results and sometimes You know that will that will come with you know having Critique groups and partners helping them out and sometimes it's just you know blood sweat and tears

You know draft after draft and you know reading doing research, but but putting the time in I've seen the process Yeah, I've seen the script writing process. You know, I'm living through the book writing process And I'm not doing too well, but I do all right every every got some good stuff You know, I when I took that breather That was the most important thing about those five weeks to get myself in that rhythm What people understand sometimes you just got yourself into a rhythm Remember to do this second every day. You know what if you write a paragraph is great If you write fucking a thousand words, it's great

And I read the second book you sent me and that put me on a thousand word a day limit That really had me buried the only problem was my back was starting to hurt too much So I cut it down to 500 and I break it up into two different sessions. That's still good. What's the matter? You got heartburn or something no, I feel good All right, you're looking at me all week You didn't even eat in the edibles and you fucking got that fucking out of space. Look, you know Fucking guava and cheese thing is on the balance. Yeah, you'll be all right. I'm fine Do you do you have because I don't know even what

What genre consider this with joey if it's autobiographical autobiographical or like stories But do you work a lot and just bait straight fiction? I do that too and uh, it it really depends. I have um, I don't work with everything Naturally, but there are some types of of works that I gravitate toward and memoir is one of those. It's um It's kind of an interesting distinction that it's not straight autobiography like the entire story of everything that happened. It's uh, it's uh, uh, a memory of a big change that you go through and we're using You know events from all over your life, but it has this one thread this one change

that you're um, you're going through and that is uh, You know, that's that's what makes it a memoir rather than like a chronicle or an autobiography, but it's uh Yeah, it's I like a good story But I'm also a very very very big fan of the biography. Yeah And my thing is I always read multiples But really you read multiple biographies on the same person the same person just to see. Oh, yeah, what the author What was important to him to let you know that was my take on it for some reason like I've read

multiple biographies on Hemingway and I read a couple books on fucking my favorite comedian that the crazy guy From the 60s Lenny Bruce. Yeah I've always enjoyed biographies. That's why I like telling them biography. I love you know, I I don't know how many biographies I read But they just interesting people like I said rose. They're great ones out there And that's I even read fuckos the guy who got his sick duck was his dick suck when he was the president

Oh clinton clinton. Yeah Yeah, Texas guy tell him to put the air on Because I'm sweating like a fucking I'm sweating like michael jackson the dickhead center. Look at me. I'm fucking drenched the pieces Did they include the monocle ones you stuff in the bill clinton biography? No, this was before this I also read like the kennedy one the john f kennedy one. Yeah, I didn't like his father's fucking biography I've read Isn't that did I see a patty hearse one coming out? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I like all that shit, you know

Uh, I've read a lot of sports people like julia servings come from. Oh, yeah, I love that perspective That's my big thing. I've always been a big big fan Of autobiographical stuff for some reason or another so yeah, and that's one thing that you know, sometimes You know certain people like to shit on Reading rock biographies or reading romance or something that's perceived to be a little fluffy or a little, you know, not too serious But no man, the the important part is is you're reading and you're taking in information and it's it's stimulating your mind, you know, it's it's You know enough people don't read it all, you know, this is uh, and if you find something that is Your jam, you know by all means go for it. It's crazy that I you would never expect this from a guy like me

But I've read all my life. Yeah Like I there's something about that piece That I love listening to music, you know, I'm an old child. I love listening to music But my other thing is a great fucking book like there's no better feeling than getting stoned And knowing you can go on a plane and that you're gonna be uninterrupted. Yeah Right now I gotta I figured out how to download these books on my little fucking pad Yeah, and I got Nicholas Gregorius's jiu-jitsu book on there and yesterday was a fucking five-hour flight back You could just watch so much fucking tv

Yeah, right and I said, let me read that for a while. I read that like 30 pages and it was well. I love Being able to read uninterrupted and I don't mean that a park under a tree. So people take your fucking shakes, but yeah I mean like just finding a nook in your house and Getting sure I think that is one of the great and I don't and I also felt And this is how I felt especially after I started writing comedy that to write you got to read Yeah, I don't know why that always has driven me crazy that I'll speak to comics and they don't read As much as I read I read. I don't know why I just like to read and some shit is garbage Well, I mean Joe you I know you said you started rating in prison again, but

like For me, I know there's a lot of people like me who I haven't really read On a consistent basis since I left high school or college I guess because they make you do it. So like you kind of get turned off to it Yeah, and there's some people who love it and some people continue to do But I'm I'm one of the people who I haven't read and I bought books and I finished a chapter two and I just I never cracked them again. So how do you get like how do you guys get in the rhythm of reading? I was a bullshit artist reader. I would take a book and read what I wanted to read for years

I did that because I too In the seventh grade had a teacher called mr. Kingwell Who would make you read a book every fucking month and do an oral Book report which were fucking nightmare. You can't buy those He would ask you questions about the book and that really pissed me off because I'm the type of guy that if I'm into a chapter And it's got nothing to do with what I'm thinking about. I'll fucking Not read that chapter and somewhere along the line. I think When I quit high school

It fucked me up so much mentally. Yeah, it really did like deep rooted because It made me feel what I didn't want to feel growing up, which was just plain fucking stupid Like it was bad enough. I got to live back But now I got to quit high school and come on. I didn't really need to get a job That was the story I made up because I wanted to snorkel and have a certain lifestyle Which it still didn't but the point is that that's When I got into reading like that. I still remember one of the books. I read jimmy pier saw fear strikes out about a

Boston red sock player that was crazy And he's we used to run around the games the bases backwards and shit really and he ended up in a padded room And you know, I remember all these little books Yeah, I'm not one of these guys that is going to read a book and put it in the shelf behind me So when you come over you're going to see that you can see your display, you know I have favorite books that I've kept Just because I'll read a book over once in a while. Yeah. Yeah, I'll do that every two or three years just to get To learn something you pick something up. You didn't oh sure. Yeah

How does somebody get signed? So somebody goes to college they graduate college. They got a degree in creative writing. What are the other writings? Journalistic literature any kind of so when they get a literature Already when you're in college, you should if you're in a writing program You should already have a fucking book out by the time you go to college No, that that's asking a lot But you're going to learn a lot in college and then you're going to learn even more after you graduate and you're trying to To write and sell books for a living, you know, it's it's a tough gig

You know and and a lot of people a lot of really famous writers too will have three four manuscripts in the drawer that nobody's ever going to see Because they had to do those three before they could write one that was good enough to sell And now they're, you know, major bestsellers and stuff like that. So I mean, it's it's a process of just repetition and and You know building up that muscle and I know Uh, there's a lot of people who are in college right now who listen to this and Even though you're you are still learning Yeah, the the thing that one of the things that blew me away coming from college was

Even though how I thought I was really busy how much free time I actually had in college So joey's right even though it might not be good You could have a book by the time you graduate because if you're in college right now when you get out and you're starting a job You have way less time even though you don't have homework It's a way you have a way less time to sit down and write so you could in theory Yeah, that's that's knowing what you know now back in college, you know, you didn't know you had all that free time it's like oh, shit, I got to finish this assignment or there's this party or this whatever that I got to do and and uh, you know all drama and stuff that goes with it and you don't realize that once you get out it's uh

You're going to have a lot more responsibilities and it's all on you at that point. But um Yeah, so I don't blame them if they don't have their shit together. Oh when they graduate What's that book that came out years ago the war warriors way the warriors remember everybody was doing the warriors way way When I got into comedy and when I got into comedy in 91 I was just a fucking But in 94 and a half for some reason I said that's it. I have to document all this. Yeah, like I had notebooks to write jokes in

But I also took and this is what I also did for writing. I also have Now in my calendar, and I've always had this you have you look at your calendar. This is january 1 through the 30th All right, and if you turn the page again in the new calendar is now it has Uh your day and what time your appointments are you know what I'm saying? Yeah, so I have This things I have to do every day I even made a log for writing. Yeah So when I'm writing there's a notebook next to me And I have the outline out and I have how long I spend on it

That's a checkpoint every day like that really helped me getting into the groove Yeah, if you want to get into the groove of reading Put it in your list, you know, I have to go to the gym. I gotta go to doctor 230 I'm doing a podcast with joey at five And then 30 minutes a day before paula comes home Rip out a book about tom brady. First of all start with shit that you like, right? Yeah That's the number one thing don't read a book because some guy told you that Just read a book that you like when you when I go to barns and nobles. I look for shit

You know and sometimes I go in there looking for one thing and you end up finding this sometimes that that's Love it. Love it. Love it. Love getting surprised. Yeah, love leaving there. It's like a record store We're going in for you going in to look for the warriors, but you find Fucking a concert. It's it's a surprise. I love Just start with reading what you enjoy You enjoy bad food Right if chef write a book read a book about a chef with bad recipes and listen Listen to me. Yeah, and then read a book about you like new england. You like

We have the the bobble lingus has given me a couple of patriots books. I have to read So I would love to read those bobble lingus is the best guy to give books Nobody gives a better book than bobble lingus. Some people are like that. He's giving me the jimmy page biography. He got me the fucking I think he got me. No, he didn't get me peter grant. He got me the Led Zeppelin book There's one other one. He got me that's sensational Not the Hollywood Henderson one, but The one about the fucking guy from the Detroit Pistons Marvin bad news bonds like he's got yeah, you know those reads for me. That's a day

Oh, sure. Yeah, I can read those in a day And it's great fun and it's it's something that you know, you get into your head and you um, it's a relaxing experience But you also if you're trying to write a book at the same time Yeah, you can relax and have fun with it too. But you know if you have a pen with you and you can you know underline You know how he introduces certain characters or how he starts this chapter or you know how you know He refers back to this point and stuff like that you can kind of see how the pieces all fit together It's uh, it can be a good exercise too if you're trying to write, you know, you could still read for fun

Yeah, but uh, you can also get something out of it Joey's been asking a lot of questions about like how how you like get a job and all of that how much has this changed in the last five or ten years with digital right because like I went like Joey's coming with questions that I think would have been a lot More complex for you to answer. Maybe 15 years ago. What are you saying cocksucker? I'm asking back questions. No, no, no, no. Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah

Yeah, well, it's it's really kind of opened up things into different directions that people didn't anticipate and when it came out you know when when the kindle came out a lot of people were We're kind of Building their their end of the world shelters and stuff like that Like they thought it was going to end books as we know it and you know that it's if you look back You know, they had that same kind of panic when they started doing paperbacks like cheap paperbacks like oh, this is going to kill publishing but You know the e-book is now just another format some some people prefer to read

On a candle and be able to take you know a thousand books with you wherever you go or Some people really have to have that page that you that you turn and you feel and and so it's um it's just another segment of the market and it's uh a different um Different types of writing are better suited to digital than others, but at the same time it's just Gone to consumer preference. You know whoever likes reading paper versus digital I like reading and i'm gonna tell you something. I I like having The book

Yeah, i'm an i'm an older Gentleman. I still like having the book. Yeah, but i do both though But I really enjoyed reading on the ipad the other day on the flight home. I really enjoyed that In fact, i'm gonna have more books and yeah Because everybody always sends you exercise routines and you have to download them Yeah, i'm just gonna download them on that that's the best thing in the world Well, and it depends on on how you uh, you know what situation you're in what you're doing What kind of time you need to fill and then uh, you know that could dictate what's best for you and and uh

Sometimes it's good to you know open your your mind to different methods like just a few years ago I started really getting into audiobooks when uh, yeah when I I found myself You know doing most the cooking at home or doing most the driving and things like that and and uh Having this free time where my hands are occupied And I have to focus on something else But I can also have an audiobook going and and some of the books are even better that way like if you if you get uh If you get stan hopes last book get it on audio Does he do it? Oh, he does it several other people. It's like his podcast. It's great

and sometimes You know with especially with memoirs where it's that person reading it It's a different experience, you know I'm definitely reading my yes to scare the shit out of people. Absolutely. That's gonna be a party. That'd be a good time Let me give some shout outs real quick my man. Jeff from queens Uh, anthony something the stonemason Thank you for your oh, don't a fucking this guy offered me a job As a stonemason, so uh

Something stonemason tony zeo tyler howl renee and costione took a picture of fucking the shit I used to drink when I was a kid That'll put 92 pounds on your fucking condensed milk with orange juice and a ton of sugar I forget what the fucking dominicans call it, but that shit's good. My man, dude, aron michael stein My man, frankie barker running tenth plan in australia Kanye twitter and dave wilder. Thank you. It was always a pleasure seeing you in austin again cocksucker And don't forget my 55th birthday show February 17th 730

At the ice house and then february 23rd bitches Lee and myself invade the denver comedy works We're gonna be grin chili nine times in three days. So I'll see you guys at the comedy works those tickets are posted already. Listen guys. It's I'm doing clubs I'm not a star to do theaters. So I still do clubs. So It's the comedy works. I've been selling these tickets. Get them quick if you want to see me I don't add shows. I'm too fucking old. So comedy works february 23rd

To the 26 to 27 the 24th 22nd to the 24th, and then we get the ice house on february 17th So the main question is gordon jordan. What are you fucking calling it jordan? I've been called worse I'm a college kid. I'm getting one of these degrees. What do I do? I just graduated I got my fucking literature degree. What's my next move? How do I make a fucking living? You get a job at starbucks while you write and you're trying to uh to make a name for yourself Um, how do you make a name for yourself from writing? It depends on what you're trying to write if you're if you're writing fiction Let's say literary fiction right something. Oh, let's start from this. Yeah, because I always get confused. Oh, it's all right

Fiction is bullshit, right? Right fiction. Yeah is bullshit and nonfiction nonfiction and non bullshit. All right I gotta always remember Is real okay, so if you make shit up you have to get really good at making up shit Through short stories and uh and sending those out for publication um You can just try and and draft your novels. Uh, but I do highly recommend if you're writing fiction Um, especially literary fiction or some genres like science fiction does a lot of short stories too and and mysteries sometimes but Um, you can you know, write those short pieces get a little bit of a name for yourself

And then once you're finished with your book your manuscript then you have a little bit of a name to send out with that What kind of short what are you saying? So if if you're writing a novel then sometimes Depending on the novel that you're writing it helps to have short stories published So there's a magazine or whoever you're writing for that that prints short stories Um That has kind of at that point given the stamp of approval of oh, this is a good enough writer for us to publish And there are some of those magazines out there like one of their names

Oh, if you get into like a like a gargoyle or um, it depends on on what your preference is the los angeles review is one of my favorites and and uh, there are tons of Of other options depending upon what kind of stories you're writing and this is something that that you writing memoir You don't have to worry about Um, but if you're writing uh fiction if you want to be the next Hemingway, let's put it that way Then you got to start writing into these these magazines and uh and find something that that connects with your style and then You know build up a name for yourself Sometimes you can win awards and then people start coming to you. I have uh, I have one client who wrote a

Short story in a local literary magazine not even a big publication and it got nominated for a big award and it won And and at that point we have you know publishers calling me saying I want to read whatever she has Because we know she's a good writer and so we're working on on her book right now um But yeah, that's that's definitely one way to do it to kind of give yourself a leg up make it a little bit easier So it's just like comedy you got a day job like anything else. Yeah, you got to pay the bills You find yourself you just write six seven hours a day and you're up time Yeah, you got to find the time it's the same fucking struggle. Yeah, it's the same struggle and it's um, you know, you you find the time you make it work

they're um I'm trying to remember the name of the writing group I think it's the the 4am writing club or something like that of people who wake up at 4am because that's the only time that they have They have families or they have jobs and things that they have to take care of But they can make some time out for themselves at at 4am to put down, you know, 500 words a day or whatever they do and And you just make it happen. I know um good friend of mine dug rice is a novelist who wrote his second book

Literally with a pen in one hand and his baby daughter in his other hand and so If you want it bad enough, it's just like comedy. You got to find a way to make it work. You got to find a way to put the time in Wow, I thought I had no fucking idea that you struggled that much. I thought that let's say I always thought like freelance writers Just wrote different articles send them out. Is there a living in freelance writing? I mean, oh, sure Yeah, that's a lot of people make a good living that way and a lot of A lot of novelists will also write freelance to uh to supplement their income and just whatever they need to do to make it work

They want to be a writer then They're gonna be a writer, you know Doesn't matter what they're the writing for as long as they're doing that You know, my my wife is a fashion writer I was just gonna say for her loves to do for the og listeners of the church When we first started there was a girl living on my couch Yeah, and she she moved back to boston and now she's a technical writer So she writes blogs for websites to help them with their seo stuff and she does that all day every day

Yeah, blog writing manuals, whatever you need to do I mean, there's everything that you read has to be written by someone And so you got to find that job And uh and do what you need to do and and and then you can in your spare time Do whatever you want if that's if you want to write to pay the bills you can write to pay the bills It's gonna be really hard But um there's work out there to be had what do you look for When you sign a client do you ever sign somebody right out of college? Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean even before that too we had uh

We we had one author who is um, she's working on her new book now that um First two contracts, uh, she signed including a really lucrative one Had to be co-signed by her parents because she was underage She was I think 15 when we sold her first book and 17 when we sold her next or something like that She's not my client. She's another at our agency, but you know, sometimes people get a head start on it like that and uh, sometimes people come into it late in life and It doesn't really matter as long as they can deliver the goods And then I mean that's one of the

Wonderful things about the digital age is that that you found that 15 year old girl. That's amazing. Oh, yeah Or she she found us she reached out to us, but but yeah at that point It's like oh, we can really we can really do something with this person and one of the biggest changes when I worked at another agency before I started this one and uh one of the biggest changes is uh the previous agency we would sign A new contract for each book and I saw that as being way too short-sighted So instead of signing the book we signed the author Saying okay, what do you want to do for your career and then what kind of long-term trajectory?

Can we have you on and we'll brainstorm different ideas of you know, write this one then write that one and stuff like that And uh and really make it make it work make an investment in that person so most the time Almost always I'm looking for someone who I can make an investment And who is going to grow rather than just one book that I can flip and you know make a little bit of money I want more than that what um What would somebody have to send you?

To tickle your fancy to be an author if they want to be represented and we have to send you the manuscript or Yeah, they um It depends upon the agent you're reaching out to um, you have to be able to write a query letter, which is just a one page Short bit about the book short bit about you and uh, and then whatever else they ask for like I I say if you're a fiction writer, I have this on my website and all agents have this on their websites for for lit They'll have exactly how you want submissions Um So if you're writing novel write me a query letter and paste in the first chapter underneath so that I can see what the book is about

But I could also see your writing style And if that is something that catches me then I'll ask for more I'll ask for the whole thing and read the whole manuscript and see you know Uh, does this fall apart does this fall apart or does this you know have some potential? and uh, and it's different for every agent so always go to the agent's website and check them out first before you send but um, you will need to Have if you're writing fiction, you'll need to have the full book finished Uh, the whole manuscript written out if you want to write nonfiction

Then it's sold on proposals So you don't have to write the whole thing first But you need at least one to three really good polished sample chapters and then this book proposal That's like a giant sales document of you know, what's all of your your media experience? How are you going to be able to sell books and and that kind of stuff? and uh And from there, you know, we we go to uh, you know working with this person if we want to or on to the next one if we don't So I just because i'm a cynic

You're a cock sucker. I'm gonna cut that too. You're a lot of things. I'm too many things Do you like for people out there who are writing and submitting and not hearing back Do do agents and stuff really read those submissions emails and and like and so like Like sometimes they feel like you're all i'm just wasting my i'm throwing these and no one's ever gonna see them But they like people actually look at them Uh, yes, people actually look at them the um percentages of getting through Uh are are very slim Um, and it depends on who you submit to uh, sometimes they have uh,

You know interns or first readers or you know, some people, you know, sometimes a college kid is a writing student Who's looking to get more experience? You know, we'll be trained to be a first reader For submissions and then the agent will then read after that and stuff like that, but I've I've always Read my own submissions because i'm a bit of a control freak that way I don't want to trust some kid who may or may not know Uh what it takes, you know, I'll put in that extra time to go through the inbox and and pick out

You know, what I see is being good And uh and from there it's um, just you know a process of is this something that Can be edited is it something that is um, you know, what's the level of of success potential there? Um, is it a a subject that is that is coming gone? You know, are you writing about, you know, teenage vampires and stuff like that or are you writing something that hasn't been done to death? Um, you know all these things that we have to think about before we uh, we sign someone And one of the biggest turnoffs when somebody sends your package Like what was the first thing you look at?

That you would just close the package and toss in the garbage while sending me a package would be one I tend not to to open things that writers send to me just randomly is all through the email these days Very rarely are you going to be physically stuffing envelopes and sending them out? Um, sometimes I would walk into your fucking office with a manuscript because yeah, I'm old school I don't know anything about you have someone helping you out of the building at that point, uh, But But it's um, that's actually it's a good point because that's that's one of the first things that we look for is do they follow submission guidelines? And so we'll spell it out, you know on our website. Sometimes it's in guidebooks that list agents, you know, how to submit to this agent

And um, we are as open as we can, you know, as open as possible about that process of how do I want? You to submit to me and if say I were to ask for Send me your query letter in first chapter and they send me a query letter and First five chapters, then I know that at the very least they can't follow simple directions, you know And from there, you know, it's like well, what is the editing process going to be like and when we have to Have really in depth You know how to take care of this problem in the manuscript before we could send it out You know, we have to go through that the editing process and and if they can't follow simple directions and submissions then

How can I trust that they're able to do that? I don't know that person you know, sometimes it's uh It's um, it's not a perfect process, but we have to make those assumptions That's uh, it's a rough world. Yeah, I just you know For years I just read books, you know, and then uh I think it was the art the war of art got me going and uh There was something else I read and I finally Started my uh my space thing and that was rough. Oh my god, but I really stuck to it

Yeah, like I remember being at the Dallas improv and fucking Like being pissed because I had to work sunday night So I went out to the hallway computer Yeah, I had to write my blog on facebook and the hallway computer because I wanted it out by monday at six Oh, yeah, and I outlined in those days guys. It would take me 12 hours to write 200 fucking words And I had shit misspelled

But I knew I was working a muscle. Yeah, I really knew myself. That's when I came to the conclusion That all those books are bullshit Nobody could teach you how to write. I could give you Uh An outline on how to write a what to write But you have to do the rest. Oh, yeah, and then on writing push me over on writing And then I heard like stories about mitch headberg. I mean mitch headberg wouldn't answer his phone before 11 This was way before the drug use

He would lock everything up his girl from left to work at eight. Yeah, so he would write comedy from 8 to 11, you know and That's what it takes to be a fucking writer. You have to sit down Avoid the distractions, which is youtube facebook twitter. You know, that's why there's nothing on that Computer except netflix for the flight On that little computer. My wife got me is just that writing app. Yeah, it says youtube and all that shit I can't access it. Yeah, I'm stuck on the weekends. That's why I bring that computer I got twitter on my phone, but I won't have it on facebook, you know, because I want to Uh, commit that was the part of it. That was and even today

I had a rough morning, but I still wrote 200 words. I was okay for today. No, it's because tomorrow I'm gonna have a cancellation and I'll write 500 in the morning and then 800 at seven o'clock when I have nothing to do That's that's it man. I'm happy that we met online. I'm happy that you've been a great writing mentor and I uh I'm happy that you're in town and everything worked out. I could move the podcast and you come on and just Talk about writing any other questions you might have for the master disaster brother I mean, how do you Because I when Joey asked and how it's similar because we we talk a lot about how actors go through it and At least with stand-ups. They have an audience of one or two people to see if the jokes are working like how yeah, like what how do you

Talk when you talk to a writer who's three four five years in and still working at starbucks Like what do you tell them to like help them continue going or is that just self motivation? I know it's partially self motivation, but like is there's any sort of Silver lining or happy rainbow you can give to a writer who's half like in the struggle. Oh, yeah, absolutely I mean again sometimes people make it right away and sometimes it it takes them You know a long time before they can really find that success And so if you keep putting the work in it's um

That's what you need to do It takes different amount of time for different people and there's no magic formula or or you know book that you have to follow this You know xyz steps and and you can become a successful writer Yeah, it's good to read those kind of resources, but you know You have to put the work in And sometimes it it takes a while and sometimes it doesn't but if you want to be a writer You know whether or not you're getting published Right, right every fucking day

My first real experience is writing and I've been doing this for This is 1995 And that's what I said that with calmly I learned that That notebook That notebook that makes you accountable. Yeah, you know wait watches works because it makes you accountable, right? You know, I have this thing called the jiu-jitsu workbook Yeah, where I ordered on amazon when I come home. It makes me accountable

It makes me go in there right what I did what I learned if I drilled it if I got tapped What techniques I used and I do that with everything now and yeah when I added to my writing my writing really changed I have one notebook that has a sticker of a devil on it And in there I have different outlines for stuff and it's weird that over the years I've like uh desperate housewives Desperate housewives was a scripted guy out on a shelf for 10 years And he dusted it off one day He put some adjustments and he sent it out Excuse me. It became a huge show on abc

That's crazy because there's people who write things and they just keep adding things throughout the years No, I haven't for 10 years. They'll be sitting on it's like get get shorty Okay, that was about a on author that got killed But he had this script that was sensational and his wife bet mittler wanted fucking three million for this script And everybody in town knew he had it in this shit that takes forever. You know, I knew this I just wanted to get the gift of sitting down every day because that's the most important thing if you're gonna be a writer Yeah, and sometimes I said, you know Over the years I would sit down and do that comedy bullshit writing

Which is the guy in the coffee shop drinking the coffee with the pen in his mouth Thinking of what to write and then I changed it all around I get to the coffee shop and I have two notebooks and I write a story Me and lee went to austin last week. It was hilarious. We went to fucking pop of those Lee saw the bread and while i'm writing that story Now a joke comes in. Yeah So i'm never just sitting there. I'm never just sitting there You follow me? I'm always writing this story that i'm writing ain't nobody ever gonna see it doesn't matter

I'm working the muscle. Yeah, there's a lot of that in books too. And it's just you got you got to treat it like a job You get a clock in you got a clock every day You know, and that's that's how that works, you know, you have to um, you know make the time and Really at the end of the day Only you can quit You know, you can write forever whether or not you're getting published, you know, if you want to keep writing Nobody's stopping you You know, it's um, it's something that yeah, you can get a little frustrated and sometimes it's a little hard or you

You're not selling as many books as you wanted to or your ranking is not where you want it to be but you know You can bring yourself out of any hole Really, you know and and the first thing to do is to just keep writing and sometimes if you get Shot down, you know, maybe the next one will go we had um Really successful author actually we um, we just sold a uh a new series by her And it was her first series that didn't sell way back in the day

And her next book was a big new york times bestseller It was she kept writing she got shot down with the first one and then the next one one hit And really helped make her career and she's written Dozens of books after that and now we came back to the first concept and said okay now that you're A better writer knowing what you know now What can you do with this and it just um just sold for quite a bit of money And she's uh going to be able to write those books that she wanted to way back in the day So, um, you know, it's only you can tap out

You know now let's say you're a writer a spying writer You're uh, you know, you're not struggling. I mean you're just down on your luck And you think you got something good. You ever see those commercials that light for christian writers. We're looking for stories Are they scams? Like all those e-book writing things. I mean Some of them are some of them aren't it depends on what you're trying to get out of it sometimes It's like you just need You know $200 to pay a certain bill and there's this uh, you can submit to

An anthology that will pay you $200 and and you don't then get rights to the story after that But you solved your problem, you know, it's whatever you're trying to do And i'm not going to say, you know, turn that down unless You want to do something else with that story, you know, and it's it's your choice. Do you want? Do you want to maybe You'll be able to submit that to a magazine and maybe win an award and launch your career or do you really need the $200 and i'm i'm fine with You know people who need to write

To make a buck, you know, whether it's doing that or it's getting a job technical writing or Um, whatever you need to do, you know, that's if you want to be a writer you can you can write One of the top three books you would recommend for an aspiring writer just top three books That they don't have to waste their money on a thousand fucking books Get a notebook get the three books go ahead and tells you and get the right and get the fucking feather with the incock sucker

All the three books, man, it depends on there's so many out there as you know But it really depends on on your personality like i sent you the the war of art for writers And that's not even one of my clients, you know, that's just a book that i know it was a great book guys war of art For writers completely different than what we've spoken about before. Yeah red cover easy read Very to the fucking point and that's what got me in a thousand words a day. Yeah, james scott bell and he knows his stuff James scott bell he's written several other books too and and sometimes when you find A writer like that who is able to connect with you and and instruct you like other writing books don't You know, that's oftentimes they'll have another book you check out see what else he wrote say if if he wrote a book on

Uh on setting and you're having trouble with setting then you know, you know, you can go to this guy and and he'll help you out um And sometimes these people are also uh writing coaches Who can uh can work with you and and help you to uh You know fix up certain areas or you're writing if you need that sort of thing and if you have the money to spend on that um, again, not everybody else needs to do that, but um You know, I would say If you do find a book that connects with you you see what else the other see what else he has

Um, so he would be good on writing you brought up is another good one And that's one that's just kind of uh, no nonsense write Right to the heart of things. Uh, he is um He will lay it out for you, you know His process what he went through and what he found worked for him And you know, take all this with a grain of salt, you know, when if someone is telling you how to write It's how how it worked for them And they may have theories and and things that maybe they teach in class and and it's something that they found out works

Um, so it's a good thing that you're asking for three because You know, if you just go to one then you'll get a very narrow view of of what works No, you have to get three. Yeah, like I said, you have to It's good even with the biography I read three biographies because I see three different points of view And what was important? What point that author wanted to get out there? That's what you learned from reading those type of books. And what's your third? My third, uh, I could name drop a client and help her sell some more books nina amir

If it's good, let's uh, nina amir has some writing books that are fantastic. What's the name? Uh, nina amir amir Yeah, a m i r she uh, she wrote a new book called creative visualization for writers that uh, if you are um Not so much a Reading learner as you are like an active learner or a visual learner That's a kind of book that you want to get because it's more of More of exercises and and drawing and making lists and and it's very active You mark up the book and you do a whole bunch of different things

And uh, and that will help you kind of you know Connect to writing that way if that's how you learn So, um, you know that one's great. Um, and the motts bird by bird is another one. That's great um, there are just so many that are out there that Uh, you can find something that you'll connect with and and at the very least it'll be enlightening You'll get someone's point of view of of what works for them and uh and help you out. So Um, it's good stuff Well people if you think of it being a writer, I hope this helped you out to

Yeah Gordon's helped me out. He's a very fascinating guy. Uh, I would give you his email, but fuck you You'll be torturing him with fucking questions write a book and get back to me And then I'll hook you up with fucking gordon. Yeah, but uh, gordon I want to thank you again for coming on just a lighting, you know I wanted to ask these questions I wanted to ask for a few people because there's a couple writers that hit me up with questions And I don't know I'm lost. I can't say

Yeah Yeah, you can you can tell them what works for you, but you know, they're going to have to find out what works for them and and you know, the the the biggest thing that I could I could give as far as like, um Words of wisdom or what have you is you know, if you want to write write, uh, don't worry so much about how, um How other people are going to perceive it or is it going to get published or whatever there are many reasons to write You know your memoir for example

Even if you don't want anyone else to read it, you know, it's an experience. It helps you change it You learn stuff about yourself And uh, you know, I I say, you know often at at writers conferences and I meet different aspiring writers that You know, everyone should write memoir even though maybe not everyone should publish it It's uh, that's the truth though. It's the truth. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you learn it's a great writing exercise anyway Yeah, uh, one of the first writing exercises dug stand. Oh, yeah told me he goes write a story about yourself write the story of your life Oh, yeah, and oh, it was a rest back then I found those notebooks years ago Brother, thank you very much for doing no problem. You mean the world to me

Likewise, you've inspired me and uh, I'm not gonna die till I write this fucking book if it kills me We'll get it out. Let me give some shout outs real quick. We'll get the fuck out of here We'll close with Tony Bennett And then like that nobody gets their fucking feelings twisted up like I was telling you in the beginning of the show home delivery Food services are growing but one of the best ones in the country is definitely blue apron They're the leading meal kit delivery service in the u.s. And while many people know that well What we do many don't know about the types of meals you can cook with blue apron

Okay, you need just having burgers for dinners You're making short rib burgers with a happy child cheddar sauce and a pretzel bun You're preparing seared steaks with thyme Pan sauce and mashed potatoes. I mean, this is the type of uh Meals you'll be and you'll be learning how to cook Which is the most important thing and it's all under 45 minutes and without a trip to the grocery store Because their mission is to make incredible home cooking accessible to everybody And they achieved this by supporting a more sustainable food system

Setting the highest standards for ingredients and building a community of home chefs Now they offer three different meal plans a two person meal plan A family meal plan and ready for this one a wine plan six bottles of wine from renown Renown wine makers delivered monthly. So listen, let's cut this shit Let's cut to the to the chase here. Lee. What'd you get in the mail? Oh my god? I have three delicious ones. I can't wait to cook. I have steaks and steak and cheesy mashed potatoes I have roasted chicken and rosemary vegetables and then I have middle eastern baked chicken and rice It's the I can't wait to cook all three look at the menu this month again

It's drip steak with potatoes spicy maple collard green A steakhouse favorite a steakhouse favorite Inspired with a delicious twist a chili infused maple syrup chili infused maple syrup With incredible ingredients and chef designed recipes brew Blue apron lets you see the power of the food That you can cook All right Now they'll deliver proportioned ingredients and step by steps recipes right to your door

The menu changes every week based on what's in season and is designed by blue aprons in the house culinary team Blue apron offers 12 new recipes each week 12 new recipes and customers can pick two Three or four based on what fits their schedule blue apron also sends only non GMO ingredients with meat and no added hormones. Okay. Now. Here's the truth You're gonna learn how to cook you're gonna learn how to save money But most importantly, you're gonna it's a family you want your family to grow You grow you cook together and everybody has a good time Some of the best parts of your day happen over dinner. So we want you to share that perspective. Okay

So blue apron is taking care of the family the church Listeners by $30 off your first order if you visit blue apron Dot com slash showy $30 off your first order So check out this week's menu and get $30 off your first blue apron order at blue apron dot com slash showy again Blue apron dot com slash showy blue apron a better way to cook It's probably the best way to cook right now If you're busy and if you got a hectic life and if you want to eat healthy and if you want to learn how to cook Blue apron is the way to go again. That's blue apron dot com slash joey

A better way to cook number two Bitches, it's time to get paid It's super bowl time The big game is here. It's time to cash in big and bet the game at my bookie dot A g my bookie is the industry leading online sports book and its players enjoy the fastest ready for this Fastest payouts in the business when they win. I would only recommend the service. That's been good to me and our listeners That's why I urge you to make your way to my bookie. You know why?

You win they pay no drama. No hassles. You're wasting your time betting anywhere else. All right You're putting the betting with three monkeys. You don't even know if you're gonna get paid They even have an in-game live betting So you can place a bet after the kickoff. Did you hear that after the kickoff? So you got a hunch on who's gonna win the coin toss or the gatorade or who's gonna score first Or who's gonna get off safety? Go to my bookie dot a g join now And score free cash to place your super bowl wager

On the house right now. My bookie is giving away up to a thousand dollars to every new player You like joey. How ready sign up today to score an instant 50 bonus on your first deposit. That's right. If you join today with a yardstick, that's a hundred bucks You'll get 150 bank row to play with use promo code church Chu rch to activate the offer. All right, you play your win you get paid My bookie dot a g again. I want to thank blue apron I want to thank my bookie dot a g and I want to thank my main man writing mentor and dear friend gordon warnaugh

It's been a great podcast Lee sciat. I'll see you wednesday Gordon i'll see you fucking whenever but we always talk And i'm really happy you got a chance to come on the show see our office and uh Partake with us on what we do. Thank you for your advice and your knowledge over the years I will have a book out for you cucksuckers by the end of the year if gordon fucking wants it Lee kick that mule. We're just gonna close the tony benet. I'll see you guys wednesday night tip top magoo Ready to go. Don't forget

February 22nd to the 20 whatever the fuck comedy works denver But my 55th birthday party. It's just a i want to have comedy show is uh, February 17th 7 30 at the ice house. I'll see you in those places. If not, I'll see you wednesday. Thank you gordon. Thank you, lee Stay black. Have a great fucking day I Want to be around To pick up the pieces when somebody breaks your heart Some somebody twice as smart as I

Do For somebody who will swear to be true as you used to do with me Who'll leave you to learn that misery loves company Wait and see I mean I want to be around To see how he does it when he breaks your heart to bits Let's see if the puzzle fits so fine And

That's when I'll discover That revenge is sweet As I sit there a plodden from a front row seat When somebody breaks your heart like you Like you You You