Uncover - S16: “Kuper Island” E8: Every Child Matters

Episode Date: August 2, 2022

The team tracks down the last person to ever see Richard Thomas alive at Kuper Island Residential School. Donnie Sampson was just 10 years old at the time and has disturbing memories of the day — that include a familiar and problematic name from the past. Host Duncan McCue takes the results of the investigation back to Richard’s sister Belvie who must decide what to do next. In Penelakut, the community rallies around their children — the new generation, the adult survivors still healing, and all the ones who never came home. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/kuper-island-transcripts-listen-1.6622551

Hey there, I'm David Common. If you're like me, there are things you love about living in the GTA and things that drive you absolutely crazy. Every day on This Is Toronto, we connect you to what matters most about life in the GTA, the news you gotta know, and the conversations your friends will be talking about. Whether you listen on a run through your neighbourhood, or while sitting in the parking lot that is the 401, check out This Is Toronto, wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Before we start, this is a podcast about Canada's Indian residential schools,

and it contains descriptions of sexual violence, suicide, and abuse. If you need support, you can find information about where to turn for help at cbc.ca slash keeperisland. Every child matters. That's the slogan that's come to represent a movement to acknowledge the damage done by the residential school system. In this podcast, you've heard one child's name over and over. Richard Thomas. The boy who died at the Cooper Island school who so many wanted us to know about. Here's the official version of how he died. On June 2nd, 1966, he's last seen by the Oblates at breakfast. It's not until late that night they realize he's missing. Then,

two oblates find Richard hanging in the gym. Police are called in and conclude it was a suicide. During the investigation, police interview three of his classmates. Two of those boys have since passed away, but one is still alive, the one deemed to be most credible by police. but one is still alive, the one deemed to be most credible by police. He's now in his 60s. He's hard of hearing, which he blames on all the hits to his head delivered by the oblates at Cooper. He was extremely difficult to track down. So, after months of trying,

when I finally managed to reach Donnie Sampson on the phone, I asked to record the call. Did you know Richard? Yeah, he was my senior. It turned out to be the kind of call I'd never be able to recapture in person. So that's why the audio sounds the way it does. He was your senior? Yeah, he kind of gives you guidance on what's right and wrong at the school.

Yeah. What do you remember about him? He was caring, but sometimes he got quiet, but I think it had to do with something with the school. What do you mean? Well, he hung himself there. Donnie tells me Richard got quiet, and it had something to do with the school. Through the muffled receiver and memories over five decades old, he and his wife Janice add one more piece to the puzzle of how Richard ended up dead,

hanging in the school's gym. I'm Duncan McHugh, and this is Cuper Island. Episode 8, the final episode, Every Child Matters. So Monday, I started getting on the horn with Donnie, and I tried about four times, nothing. And then Tuesday afternoon, I got them on the road. And a woman answered, and she's yelling at him, and he's driving, and he's deaf, and can't hear anything.

I'm like, who's this woman? And I'm like, okay, we finally got him. And like, should I do this thing on the side of the road? And we're like, oh, we're driving down. How about at dinner time? I'm filling in my producers, Martha and Jody, on my call with Donnie. So Richard was Donnie's mentor. So the senior boys were assigned to junior boys.

And there was a lot of brutality from the seniors to the juniors. And Richard wasn't like that. He took care of the other children. And Donnie feels very lucky that he had him as a senior. So then we started to get into it about what happened, and he knew that the questions were coming. So you mentioned Richard hanging. Yeah.

Can you tell me about that day? We were playing in the gym. We were playing, I don't know, it's called shadow tag when you turn the light off. He was in the gym that night and they were playing shadow tag, which involved turning lights on and off. So the kids were all running around and they'd turn the lights off and they'd all run around in the dark and then they'd turn the lights on again. And Richard was the one that was operating the lights. And then he remembers the lights going off for a long period of time. And them not knowing what to do.

And then when the lights came back on, Richard was hanging. Oh, my God. So you found him? Yeah. When you turned the light on, I was closest to him, eh? He was hanging on that light fixture so this is where i started to get very confused like very confused because i was like how long were the lights off was it an accident and he said no it was not an accident

he was very emphatic. At this point, the woman starts intervening quite a bit because she's basically translating for me. And then she says, tell him about Dufour. Oh, my God. Ugh. And so Donnie says, I think DeFore was abusing Richard. And I said, what? So it turns into a three-way conversation.

And I'm like, I have to ask, who are you? She's his wife. She went to the school. And she's Charlie. Turns out she's James and Tony's sister. What? Okay. James and Tony's sister.

Wow. Janice Charlie. Janice Charlie. Wow. So everyone's connected in this story. What are you thinking at that moment? What's going through your head? I was shocked that it was Dufour because we have had suspicions about Richard being abused.

suggestion that he was molested and killed by a different priest, which we've never been able to seek any other confirmation of. But that name was out there, and so we've been trying to figure that out. It put together so many different elements of everything that we've been investigating to hear that Dufour had this awful relationship with Richard. Back in episode two, Tony and James told me that brother Brian Dufour was the first school official to sexually abuse them in the basement of the Dufour family home in the suburbs of Montreal. Dufour was the one who took the Cooper Island Drum and Fife band to Expo 67. But this is the first time we've heard someone connect Dufour to Richard.

And then Janice starts to take over and tell her story. So everybody knew that Dufour had it in for Richard. He picked on Richard mercilessly. And Janice disobeyed a nun one day, and the nun sent her to the office for discipline. And Richard was there. and Richard was there. Then she said, get out and go see Brother Dufour in the office. So I walked out.

I went down to the hallway and there was Richard walking into the office and I was standing outside the door and Brother Dufour was saying to him, cry you savage, cry. And I could hear him hitting him with the strap. After a while he'd come out and he said, you're going to see me later on tonight. He said, I'm not finished with you. Then he'd come out. He says,

next. And I went in there and he strapped me right from my head down to my feet. That wasn't the first time I saw him strap Richard. He didn't hold back when he strapped Richard. Why was he strapping Richard so much? We don't know. And that one time I asked him, are you okay? But I think Richard just got tired of it. The way brother treated him, brother do for.

Janice, I'm sorry that happened to you yeah you said that brother dufour said to you you're lucky you're not a boy yeah what did he mean by that i don't know so i went back to try to figure out what happened that night. And Janice, they knew that there was something going on in the gym. So Janice and her friend ended up going into the gym. And they saw Richard hanging there. By that point, there was a nun there. And the nun told them to get out,

and they flipped out. The two girls freaked out. Janice tells me there were a lot of kids in the gym witnessing this scene. They were all screaming and crying. This is really gruesome, Janice, but I need you to... So, was he hanging when you saw him? Yes. He was just swinging back and forth. So, they described him hanging off the ground. That's not what's in the report. That's obviously not what's in the report, and it's not the ground. He had been turning the light on. That's not what's in the report. That's obviously not what's in the report and it's not the picture at all. It's not the photo.

In the police report, Richard's body is partly on the ground and police say it was Brother Dufour and another oblate who discovered Richard well after bedtime, not the children. The children must have been upset. Yeah, they were. They were crying.

And so how long was he there for? I don't know, because they told us all go back to the dorm, take a shower and go to bed. Some of the girls went to bed crying, seeing him hanging. So then I talked about when the police came and I started asking about the police and Donnie immediately goes, yeah, they interrogated me. I said, what do you mean interrogated you and he said oh he said they just kept asking me questions over and over and over and over and over again i remember them just the police asking me over and over and they wouldn't stop donnie can i ask you this we managed managed to find the autopsy report for Richard.

It details the police report into what they think happened. And so he talked about interviewing you. Would you mind if I read that to you? Yeah. Okay. yeah okay so this is the statement of donald samson aged 10 years of the cooper island residential school yesterday after supper i went into the gym you told him richard thomas was in there he was playing with a rope that leads up to hold the movie screen. Richard was making a knot and he made a loop in the end of the rope. He was lying on his back on the floor and he was pulling on the

rope. He threw the rope up in the balcony. Then he went up on the balcony and tied the rope around a fastener. Then he came down and asked us if we wanted to play basketball. We played basketball for a while and then Richard told us it might be our bedtime. Then we went out and someone shouted bedtime. Richard went up the stairs to the balcony and started reading the New Testament. Ray and Jimmy and I went into bed. So that's what the police officer was saying that you told him about that night. Does any of that make sense to you? And that's where Donnie started to get ruffled.

He started to say, I can't remember. I can't remember. And he said, I don't remember a rope. Do you remember Richard having a Bible? Do you remember Richard having a Bible? No. The cops said that you said he was reading the Bible. The cops said that you said to the cops he was playing with a rope. That's what you said in that statement.

I can't remember what happened there. Did you say that to the cops? Do you remember? No. So that's what I'm trying to figure out Donnie is that the police officer also says that it took a long

time to question you guys. And I'm trying to figure out if this statement because it's a little different than the story you told me. He's asking what really happened. Do you remember? No, I can't remember. It's been so long. It's been a long time, Donny, I know. Yeah. And you were just little. time Donnie I know. Yeah. And you were just little. I'm 65 now.

Yeah. And Janice jumps in and said sometimes he tells me this story. It comes up when he's dealing with things. For some days he'll bring it up and I just sit and listen to him. Yes. Because I know

what it is, you know, to go to get traumatized by something like that. Yes. He doesn't talk about a rope and he doesn't talk about a Bible. He just't talk about a Bible. He just talks about Richard turning off and on the lights.

And when the lights finally go on, he sees Richard hanging, swinging there. So you've heard him tell the story before, Janice. You've never heard him talk about the rope or the Bible before. No. Here's the last thing. She said, we were young. We were all small. And I said, what did the nuns and priests tell you about what happened? And she said they didn't say much about what happened.

They didn't talk about it. But she said the older students started talking about Dufour having killed him. And I said, what are you talking about? And she said, well, what are you talking about? And she said, well, after they left, knew the relationship that Richard had with Dufour, how Dufour picked on him. And they think that Dufour killed him. And that's how that story started to circulate. So I said, how is that possible? Given what Donnie just told me about this period of time that it was in the dark, how could that have happened? And she said, I don't know. She said, I wasn't there. But that's what the older students talked about.

But she said, I know that Dufour had it in for Richard. That's all I know. And then she says to Donnie, do you think Dufour killed him or do you think he committed suicide? And Donnie says, I think he committed suicide. I just want to say that that conversation was super hard because they're both traumatized. They saw him hanging. There's no doubt in my mind about that. How it happened, I don't know.

And then I ask a difficult question, but one I need to ask so I understand Donnie clearly. Whether he'd been sexually abused. And Donnie, what about you? Were you sexually abused by any of the priests or the brothers? Brother Dufour. Just to have those showers open so they can come in and out. So I don't want to ask details, Donnie, but I need to be really clear. You're saying Brother Dufour sexually abused you?

Yeah. He sexually abused you? Brother Dufour? He touched me, yeah. we've spent so much time looking at how he was portrayed throughout the expo 67 fundraising we have video of him he's a good-looking young man. And he is portrayed in multiple news stories as being this crusading young brother who is out to help the Indians. Yeah. Yeah. He writes a letter to the local paper saying thank you. Yeah.

To all the people of Cooper Island. I will miss the children. Yeah. Yeah. all the people of Cooper Island, I will miss the children. Yeah. Yeah. And then to hear this version of him was so up.

Like it was like the official narrative of what the police say happened that night. And the real narrative based on what the children know about. For and Richard. It's black and white different. And like the timeline, if you think about Dufour's victim in 66 is Richard by this account. One year later, June 67, his victims are Tony and James. And if the police had asked a couple more questions about what may have happened that night, then Brother Dufour doesn't exist anymore at the school, and James and Tony never happens.

I mean, this was, Brian Dufour was more than just one very odd and disturbing summer trip with two boys. One very odd and disturbing summer trip with two boys. And nowhere is he ever mentioned as being, he was never charged. He was never investigated. He's never named anywhere. Brian Dufour left the Cooper Island School in 1967 after the expo trip. He wrote the Oblates, asking to be released from his vows, saying he couldn't cope with religious life, though a news report suggests he ends up at a different residential school, St. Mary's in Cardston, Alberta. But by the early 1970s,

Dufour was working at a youth group home in Cornwall, Ontario. That only lasted a year. Soon he got married, moved to Hamilton, and started a family. His occupation is social worker in the voters' list from that time. About two decades later, alarming allegations start to circulate in Cornwall. Rumors have swirled for decades, unbelievable tales of a pedophile ring in Cornwall, Ontario. And the perpetrators were said to be leaders of the community. Lawyers, clergy members, local officials.

After years of protracted police investigations, 115 charges were laid against 15 people in connection with the alleged sexual assaults of children. But only one person was ever convicted. A man comes forward to the police.

He tells them when he was living at the Cornwall youth residence in the 1970s, he was sexually assaulted by a youth worker, Brian Dufour. The police investigate. They charge Dufour with two counts of indecent assault and two counts of gross indecency. Dufour dies a day later, apparently of a heart attack. The charges were never tried in court. We contacted a member of Dufour's extended family to request an interview about his time

at Cooper Island and the allegations of sexual abuse. His family declined. We also shared what we learned with the Oblates, who responded, quote, the truth of what happened at residential schools like Huber Island is a tragic legacy that as a religious order, we're working every day to reconcile. This information about Brother Dufour, that he targeted Richard and may have sexually abused him, will all be new information to Richard's sister, Belvi. After all the trust she's put in us, I feel like the most respectful thing to do is tell her all we've learned.

But that's not going to be easy. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for your patience. We would now like to welcome Silver Tear for Lord Aramis

and get seated in Zone 2 to board. As I head for Vancouver Island, I carry two envelopes, Belvey's name on the front. Both contain the coroner's report into Richard's death. In one, I've included the photos of him hanging. In the other, I've taken the photos out. the photos of him hanging, and the other have taken the photos out. There's a quote from a Thompson Highway play that's always guided my work as a journalist. Before the healing can begin, the poison must first be exposed. I've always believed telling our stories can be part of our healing process, but I'm anxious about this. I don't want to disrupt the balance Belvey's finally found

after years of carrying the burden of Richard's story. What if this new information hurts her? Coffee delivery! Come on in. How are you? Good, thank you. Good. We get settled and I pull out the envelopes.

Belvi seems keen to hear what we found. Let me just tell you what I'm doing, okay? So part of what we were trying to do was figure out as much information about Richard as we could. And I think we've learned a lot. Really? Well, about who he was, yeah. I have a real sense of who he was as a boy. And I can see why you cared for him so much.

Yeah. He wasn't just smart. He was exceptional. Yeah. And the other thing that's really really come through and everybody that we've talked to that ever met him was just like he was extraordinarily kind in a place that was brutal he was not you talked to us about the death certificate but in trying to find the death certificate, we also discovered that there was a full autopsy done. Mm-hmm.

So there was a coroner's investigation. Mm-hmm. And they returned to us an 18-page report. Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay. Is there anything important in there that you think I should know? Oh, Belvey. I mean, you know, like if there's, if it's, if it says that he committed suicide, I don't want to hear it. I just don't want to hear it because it's not true.

Belvey decides not to read the report, but asks me to summarize it. What it has is it's written by the police officer for the most part. It lays out the version of events that the police officer observed or was told? By the priest? Yes. Yeah. Well, why do you ask that? Because they're liars.

So the officer's conclusion was that it appeared to be a suicide. The officer's conclusion was that it appeared to be a suicide. What the priests, the priest and the two brothers, based on what they told him, they said there was no apparent reason for him to do that. The principal said that he was doing well in school, that he was looking forward to going on further in school, that he didn't seem despondent or melancholy.

Yeah. Yeah. The officer then goes in to the writings, his journal. I wish he'd put more of the journal in, because it would really help paint a picture, I think. But he only put in four selections of writing. All of them involve death. All of them involved death, and the officer concluded that perhaps he was fixated on death.

Well, I think after Cooper Island, we were all fixated on death. I was trying to kill myself until I was about 45, I think. But, you know, like I still get those feelings sometimes, you know, like I wish I wasn't here still because I don't feel like I'm worthy. I don't like to hear you say that, Belvin. No, I don't. It's just, I wouldn't do it. But it's just... We just never lived a normal life.

No, you didn't. How do you grow up to be normal? The last one was a journal entry. The journal entry was titled My Future. And he asked three questions. And he said, when am I going to graduate? What am I going to be when I grow up? And when am I going to die? I don't know what to think about that,

you know, like, about that last sentence. The officer took these four journal entries and said, he does seem to be unusually preoccupied with death. To me, when I read them, what I see is a boy who's writing about being scared. who's writing about being scared.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it, you know, like I said, more or less, that I just wanted to clear his name of suicide. You know, um... This is hard for me to say, Belvi, but I do want to say this, because I think you're going to hear this. I guess I've come to the conclusion,

based on what we've learned, that he was hanging, which is awful, and really upsetting. Yeah. How it happened... We'll never know, I guess. Which is awful and really upsetting. How it happened? We'll never know, I guess. There was one boy that, you know, he really wanted to talk to me.

And, you know, after Richard died, I just couldn't talk to him about Richard. You know, like, it was painful to talk about Richard when he passed away. And I just told him to leave me alone, and he never ever came back to me after. But I'm pretty sure two of them have passed away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But one of them was still alive. And

we found him. Oh, really? Wow. His name's Donnie Sampson. Donnie Sampson? He's traumatized as well. Deeply.

He hasn't told that story to many people, I would say. I don't think a lot of them did tell that story. So Richard was his charge. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. Holy cow. I ended up talking with Donnie's wife as well,

because she was like, tell him about Brother Dufour. And I, is that a name that you've heard before? I've heard that name, yeah. I wanted to tell you about Brother Dufour. His name was Brian Dufour. Brother Dufour, his name was Brian Dufour, simply because we have been told that Brother Dufour was particularly mean to Richard. We've also learned since that Brian Dufour was an abuser,

a sexual abuser. Oh, God, that school was horrible. It was horrendous there. Like I said, it took me 14 years of counseling to start to even talk about it and stuff like that openly. Can I ask you this, Belvi? Because I'm not a counselor, and me telling you this information has kind of had me in, to say nervous would not be the right word, but concerned.

How are you feeling as I share this information with you? I'm okay, yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty strong. You know, like, tears are, you know, like, my release, and I could get up and talk and cry all the way through. And I've done that. So the reason I ask that is just I don't know the right way to do this. Nobody taught me how to do this, and I'm just trying to do the best I can

to make sure, like I said, that I don't hurt you any worse than you've already been hurt. This must be hard on you too. Why do you say that? Just hearing all these stories. Oh, Belvi. I've been doing residential school stories for 20 years, so you think you hear the worst,

and then you hear another one. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I find really tough, And then you hear another one. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I find really tough, is that it just never ends, how bad the stories were, what you guys experienced. Yeah.

You guys did a really good job on getting everything that you could. You know, I really appreciate it, and I'm going to lay it to rest now. Why do you say that? Because, you know, like, in our culture, it's, you have to put them away, you know, like, let them rest and stuff like that. So that's what I'm gonna do for him. Let it lie and rest, that's peace, you know, like, I'll always remember him, you know, I'll never forget him. I'm the only one that really, you know, like, fought to find out about him.

I gotta let it go. about him I gotta let it go Belvi one of the things that I found out is that you've told his story for a long time to a lot of different people you haven't forgotten him and you have fought for him

for a really long time yeah yeah that's about time, I guess. You know, like, I'm ready to meet him. You know, 75, I mean, people don't, usually don't live until their 90s, you know, and I doubt if I'm going to live that long. Can I ask you a silly question? What?

When you see him on the other side, what do you think he'll say? Oh, gosh. I don't know. I don't know. It's been so long. Geez, you've gotten old. What happened to you? I hope you know what a pleasure and an honour and how much I've learned from just sitting with you.

It's one of the joys of my job is that I get to meet people and yes, I get to talk about tough things and that's not always fun but I learned so much from you and so thank you. On the opposite side of Penelaket Island from where the school used to stand, on a spit overlooking the ocean, there's a big pile of smashed up concrete and mounds of red bricks. So we just drove down this really, really long and windy road to a place called Penelaket Spit.

This is where the community dumped the remains of the Cooper Island School Building. Me and my producer Jody are now surveying what's left. Probably the length of a football field here on this spit is a pile of rubble. Big big cement blocks. Piles of bricks. It is evidence of what happened here. It is evidence of the happened here. It is evidence of the school. It existed.

I think of what James is saying, that you have... You can have a wound and it can scar over, but that scar is still here. Maybe that's what it's been a little bit like. They tore down the school, that wound, but the scar is still here. When the woman drove by there, it's kind of a big SUV and it's got paint on the side of it that says, Every Child Matters. And she's just taking her daughter for a walk on the beach. Because this is their land, this is their community.

I wonder if the kids ever say, what's all those bricks? And what you say, how you describe it. I like her nail polish. What color nails? Bright orange. Bright orange nails? But these decaying rocks are not the end of the story. Penelaket is a community that's kept their hurt close to their chests for a long time.

But that's changing. In the summer of 2021, the elders invited their First Nation neighbours to join them in a march to honour the children who died at Kewper Island. They expected 100 or so people might attend. 3,000 people showed up. Indigenous and non-Indigenous people, side by side. Many wearing orange shirts that said Every Child Matters. It's incredible. It's very touching. I'm very moved. James and Tony Charlie took the microphone on a stage in front of that massive crowd

on the unceded lands of the Hul'q'u'minim people. First James, who let his anger flash. This is private land now. We never sold it. They never got a bill of sale from us. Which is so wrong. And we'll be going do all these wrongs year after year, decade after decade.

When is that going to change? When? Then Tony, who spoke of healing. Children should never be buried at any school. Children go there to learn. They go there to share. They go there to have fun. They go there to learn. They go there to share. They go there to have fun. They go there to have friends.

When I walked down to the ferry this morning, I seen all the people walking down there with orange t-shirts. That is change that is happening here. It tells me you're learning. You're starting to understand what happened here. James and Tony didn't let Kewpur Island destroy what they have, love and survival. It's what sustains them still. But that's not the end of this story either. not the end of this story either. That's James's son Fergie, the teacher, gathering up the kids in the school gym on a Friday afternoon. This First Nations run school looks nothing like the ones their grandparents and great grandparents and great-great-grandparents attended.

It looks like a modern longhouse, warm and welcoming, hulking in artwork everywhere. This is no special occasion, just kids in oversized hoodies and running shoes, blowing off steam at the end of the week, dancing. And these kids, they're so into it. They're going to be doctors, teachers, journalists. They'll be land defenders and language speakers. They'll be parents. They'll be land defenders and language speakers. They'll be parents.

They'll be proud. Our people have been through so much. The governments and churches tried to Christianize and assimilate us and destroy us, but we're still here. They've been through enough, our elders. Now it's up to our generation to keep it going, to revive that language, to revive the culture.

And we're doing it. We are. We are here. Our ancestors went through a lot to get us here. Telling this story is my responsibility. Now that you've listened, it's yours. An estimated 167 children died at the Cooper Island Residential School or shortly after they left.

Here's who they were. Richard Thomas, age 16, died June 2, 1966, buried in the graveyard at the Halal Reserve. Annie Pappenberger died in January 1910, presumed buried in the Penelicate Cemetery. Francois Johnny, age 9, died January 13, 1894, presumed buried in the Penelicate Cemetery. Harry Johnny, not known when died. Presumed buried in the Penelakut Cemetery. Harry Johnny, not known when died. Presumed buried in the Penelakut Cemetery.

Norman Clarence Alec died June 24th, 1980. Eliza Lewis. Is it Adelina? No, Adelina. Adelina. Adelina. Adelina Paul No, Adelina. Adelina Paul. Amos Johnson.

Thomas Jim. Margaret Lewis. Emile Keith. Hélène Casimir. John-Baptiste Jim. Alfred William. Amanda James. Lucy Oshim.

Catherine Tom. Sophie Joseph. Patrick Joe. Patrick Joe. Patrick Joe. Patrick Joe. Annie Tommy. Which one? Henry Willie. Henry Willie. I do have an accent. Adeline Celestine Johns. Lena Rubin. Veronica Clastel-Canute. Anna Amy. Oh, my first name is Amy. Delfina Theokwald. Lucy Peter Norse.

Rosalina Johnny. Caroline Williams. Eva Hoor, Aloysius Daniel, Mary Josie Sia, Harold Arenita, Jasper Mitchell, Lizzy Johnny, Maria McClain, Mabel Moses Emma Williams William Jones Elmer Hardy Donalda Philip Peter Saia Marta Philip

Lizzie Joseph Edward Mildred James Lily Leo Charlie Elizabeth Smith Stanley Frank Joseph Edward. Mildred James. Lily Leo Charlie. Elizabeth Smith. Stanley Frank. Andrew Joseph. And that's my last name, so sure.

Raymond A. Brown. Rosie Michael David. Stanley Paul. One more time. Stanley Paul. I think the first one might have been better. Marie Thorne Beverly Joseph Nelson Sophie Caroline Felix sorry am I okay Caroline Felix Belinda Mary Jack okay Okay. Norman Clarence Alec. Cosmos, ja, i potle. But is it Cosmos or Cosma? But I think it's very important that we pronounce it right.

Well, the thing is, you know, since we don't know exactly how, you know, I did my best. Cosmos, ja, i potle. Felix Antoine. How do you think you pronounce that? Elaine Frenchy Did you say it? Amanda Frenchy Caroline Jacob Katherine Jacob

Simon Tom That's easy Simon Tom Francois Johnny That's it Okay Augusta Dreamy Samuel Engham Modeste Christina Gant

Teofane Johnny Josephine Jacob Jew Celeb Kempton George Baptist Johnny Jack Frank Johnny Herbert Gaboury Twice, it's just George George George Baptist. Johnny Jack. Frank Johnny. Herbert Gaborie.

Twice, it's just George George. Selena Thomas. Do you want to read all of them? No, just Angus. Angus Crocker. Thank you. Yeah, you're very welcome. Clotilda Willey.

I can try it. Okay. Etienne Harry. Philip Jack. Rosalie Moses. Okay. Etienne Harry. Philip Jack. Rosalie Moses. Thanks. Vernetta David. George Moses.

Everest Alex George. I don't want to get the name wrong. Oh, I can do that. Norma Pauline Frank. Simon Gontek. Ellen Moses. Norma Pauline Frank. Simon Gontak. Ellen Moses. Norma Pauline Frank. Josephine Norris. Mary Agnes Johnson. How old was she? We don't know how old she was. We only know what year she died. She died in 1907. Okay. Catherine Johnny. Joseph Jacob.

Alan Jameson. Bernadette Thomas. Bob Pierre. Charlie Bob. Thank you. Christine Harry. Eddie Bob. Emily Peter.

I don't want to mispronounce a name. Harry Johnny. Janine Jo. Jim Baptist. Joe Edwards. Joseph Basil. Thank you. Louisa Williams.

Maggie Bob. Moisee Jim. P. Williams. Pierre Bob Can you repeat what she said? Into the microphone? She's going to say a name and you've got to say it back. William Peter

William Peter Peter Thank you very much. Thank you. William Peter Sophie Baptiste Sophie Casimir

Tommy Alec Willie Henry Thank you Thank you Okay, thank you Thank you Thanks Thank you. Our senior producer is Jeff Turner. Our coordinating producer is Roshni Nair. Mixed by Evan Kelly.

Chris Oak is our story editor. And Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. Theme music by Zibiwan. You can hear more of their tunes on their SoundCloud page. Our awesome art by Elliot Whitehill. Check out his work at www.qualatsultan.com. Additional audio from Kyle Charlie. Heichka, Jimmy Gwitch, to Donnie and Janice Sampson, Belvi Breber, James and Tony Charlie, Fergie Charlie, the staff and kids at the Samanus Community School, and the community of Penelaket.

At CBC, big shout-outs to Tanya Springer, Leslie Merklinger, Dave Downey, Willow Smith, Eunice Kim, Andre Mayer, the CBC Reference Librarian and Archives team, and our transcriber, Natalia Ferguson. If you need support, you can access emotional and crisis referral services by calling the 24-hour National Indian Residential School Crisis Line

1-866-925-4419. Or for more resources on Canada's Indian residential schools, go to our website cbc.ca slash cupereisland. And thank you for listening to this series. If you liked it, we'd appreciate it if you'd rate and review us. It helps others find our podcast. Miigwech bizindayik. Thanks for listening. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.