Uncover - S17: "The Kill List" E6: The Pier

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

New documents, witnesses and a renowned forensic scientist all lead to the same, unsettling conclusion about what really happened to Karima. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/the-kill-list-transcripts-listen-1.6514561

Hi, it's Thomas Leblanc, host of Celine Understood, a deep dive into the cultural, political, and economic alchemy that created Celine Dion. And there are more seasons of Understood. Follow our feed to learn more about other big stories in the news like the rise and fall of crypto king Sam Bankman Freed, or the controversy behind another notable Quebec institution, Pornhub. And if you're already a follower, thanks! Please tell your friends about us. This is a CBC Podcast.

The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to suicide. Please take care. Please take care. It's Monday morning, February 14th, 2022. I'm on the phone with my producer, Alina Ghosh. She's in Toronto. I'm on the east coast of Canada. Midway through our conversation, Alina asks if I would mind turning on my tape recorder.

So I'm just going to record you on the phone here. We've been talking about new information I just received about Karima's last days. I feel self-conscious a bit right now, talking about this. No, no, and again, we're not going to,

we don't have to use any of this, it's just that I think it's important to just have a record of what you were feeling in this moment. No, no, I agree. I just, I couldn't sleep last night. I just laid in bed thinking about her. Late last night, I flew back home to Nova Scotia. Anyways, I've just gotten back from Toronto. I haven't been in Toronto to do any in-person interviews because of COVID, right, Alina?

Yeah. Yeah. We'll have to just walk through what we know, Alina, for people. Yeah. Maybe we'll go back to when I first saw the police report with Samir, which was yesterday. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

So. report with Samir, which was yesterday. Yeah, so. I had gone to Toronto to meet Karima's brother, Samir, for the first time in person. Over the past year, talking on the phone for hours, we've become close. And it didn't seem right not to meet face-to-face when he was entrusting me with perhaps the most crucial documents of this investigation. And yesterday, I received the Toronto Police report on Karima from Samir, and I also received the autopsy.

And we've just been going through some of it. We still have to go through it in more depth. But I didn't want to record what we were saying because it's about someone's life. We're talking about someone who, well, it's about Karima, and we've become very close to her. Yeah. And it seems very intimate details that we're learning about right now.

She was a very real person who faced very real persecution. But all the things that we're about to tell you about this police report kind of points to one thing, eh, Alina? Yeah. It's really hard. I just got off the phone with Alina, and I just want to say that I'm just sitting here sick to my stomach.

My name is Mary Link. This is the final episode of The Kill List. I'm not sure what we're calling it yet. I'll tell you in a second. Episode six, the pier. Two days before that phone call with Alina, I'm on Toronto Islands, a short ferry ride from the city's downtown, the ferry Karima took a year ago. It's blustery and freezing, not unusual for midwinter in Canada. for midwinter in Canada.

From the ferry docks, it takes me about 10 minutes to cross the island to the other side, to a walkway that hugs the shoreline and seemingly goes on forever. No one is on the path in front of me, just trees to my right, water to my left. Off in the distance, I see the Centre Island Pier jetting out into Lake Ontario. And that's where I'm headed, taking the route Karima likely did that day. With a wild wind blowing, I reach my destination.

I'm standing at the end of the pier, where Crema was most likely last alive. Down below, about 30 feet or so, the frigid water crashes up against the pier's concrete posts. It feels almost unreal being here. I've been picturing this place for a long time in my head. And besides being so damn cold, it's extraordinarily beautiful here. You feel like you're in the middle of nowhere. And I'm standing here looking at the endless water.

It looks like it goes on forever. I mean, I know it's a lake, but it feels like I'm back home along the ocean. I can understand why Karima liked to come here. For its beauty, for its solace. But why Karima? Why did you come here that last time? That's what I'm thinking. Why did you come here?

I keep going over in my mind what I already know about Karima's last days, but it's a story full of holes and blurred edges. It's a picture out of focus. Until it isn't. Hello? Yes, send him up, please. The next day, I'm in my hotel room in downtown Toronto. Samir is on his way upstairs.

We're meeting in person for the first time. Come on in, Samir. Thank you. Thank you. How are you? How are you? You bought coffee. I bought you water. You're better than me. No, I just, I was thinking maybe you're going to need a coffee. Samir is 38 years old. He has thick, dark hair and a radiant smile.

There's a gentleness about him, a kindness, and also a hint of sadness. He's been suffering profound grief, first for his best friend Sajid, and then his sister Karima. But we're happy to see each other. It's surreal seeing you in flesh, after living in your life for this past year. Yeah. Samir and I take a seat at a small table. We talk for a long time like old friends, but there's a brown envelope tucked away in his backpack. I have the police report with me. It's printed. Samir also has the coroner's report. Okay, I'll just read this. Further to your request, I have received...

Okay, so... On the morning of December 21st, 2020, I was informed of the death of a Central Island political refugee. According to her family, she had spoken out against the state and been threatened online. She moved to Canada in 2016. Well, that's a mistake. It's 2015, but yeah. Samir and I are making our way through the tall stack of papers before us.

The Toronto police have sent more than 170 pages. I'm sorry for having to even go through all this in front of you because I feel like it's just so personal. As I start reading, it's clear the police took the family's concern for Karima's safety seriously from the start. A family member called Toronto Police at 10.37pm on Sunday to report Karima had gone missing. The last time her family saw her was around noon that day. And within 11 minutes of their call, police units were dispatched. And soon I see why the police reacted so quickly.

It says here, Karima is listed as a missing vulnerable person because she made a recent suicidal ideation known to... So it's saying that she told someone she was suicidal. Who? It doesn't say who. The name of the person Karima told this to is blacked out in the police report. I don't think, I don't, I, I, I, I don't know this one. And this was never, you know, this occurred to me or she said it to me. I mean, I was the closest person to her. And she never said she's suicidal.

She never said that. So who do they, do you think, it's your wife that they're saying that she said it to? According to the report, three family members were briefly interviewed by the police, Karima's husband Hamal, Samir, and Samir's wife. And Samir's wife is the only one who didn't give her consent to the police, Karima's husband Hamal, Samir, and Samir's wife. And Samir's wife is the only one who didn't give her consent to the police for her name to be released in this Freedom of Information request. Throughout the copy of this report, one person's name is repeatedly blacked out, along with some of their comments.

Samir says this person is his wife. I had wanted to interview her from the start because of how close she was to Karima. However, Samir tells me his wife doesn't want to do an interview. But what they're saying here is that your wife would have said that Karima was thinking about suicide before this. I'm not sure why she's going to say that. But that day what they said, they want to grab police attention. And the conversations they are having, my wife, she's, English is not her first language. You imagine one of your family members missing. You will say anything to convince the police to go look after

her, right? Karima had only been gone about 10 hours when Samir's wife reported her missing. The family told police Karima had been depressed, but Samir says it was too complex to explain to the police why exactly. My wife just don't want to tell them that she's a political activist, she's going through this one, her friend's been abducted. That would be very hard to explain also to the Toronto City Police because they don't know what's going on back in Balochistan. Then, about 30 pages into the report,

I come across what police meant by suicidal ideation. It says here, and I'm sorry to even talk about this, it says yesterday... On the page before me, police have documented an interaction Karima had with her sister-in-law the day before she went missing. Something I'm learning for the first time. And it says yesterday Karima showed, it must be your wife, a photo that she took from Toronto Islands and mentioned that she wanted to go into the water. When reporting Karima missing, her sister-in-law told police that Karima had mentioned that, quote, she wanted to go into the water.

I am stunned by this statement. Samir less so, who thinks Karima is being misquoted. I know Karima. She's being here like, she will not say she wants to go into the water. Samir says his wife likely meant to say Karima wanted to go to the water, not into the water, which would be a much more innocuous statement, he says, especially since she liked to go for walks on the islands along the shoreline. What Karima precisely told her sister-in-law is confusing

because the message is mentioned several times in the police report, but the actual wording, and therefore its meaning, varies throughout. I don't know what they understand. And you see this conversation in different, you know, in different versions. I'd already been told that Karima liked to go to the islands and that she'd gone there shortly before her death and stayed late. But I didn't know how recent that last visit was. In the afternoon hours of Saturday, December 19th, 2020,

she went to the Toronto Islands by herself. Karima had actually gone to the island the day before she went missing. I continue reading. She sent a photograph and a text message to your wife. The photograph was taken on Centre Island Observation Pier looking out over Lake Ontario to the southeast. Accompanying the photograph was a text message which stated to the effect, I'd like to come here because I feel at peace.

We should come back here one day and go for a swim. That's not the same thing as jumping into the water. And there is a mention of we. We should come back and have a swim. And yet, this is still an odd phrasing and doesn't really ring true. As Samir adds, Karima couldn't swim. While this page contains the most detailed version of Karima's message, it still seems to be paraphrasing her words.

I keep reading. Police note the sister-in-law's reaction to the photo and message. While your wife was concerned, she did not have major concerns, thinking that Karima wouldn't die by suicide. And then she came home late in the evening and seemed her normal self. The text message and photograph were not discussed. But the exact words of the message Karima sent to her sister-in-law are still a mystery to me. That's why I want you to ask your wife, because this is not the same thing.

What they were summarizing at the beginning is not the same thing of saying, someday we should come for a swim. But Samir doesn't ask her my questions, as he doesn't want his wife further involved. But he tells me no matter what his wife told police, or how they interpreted what she said, the police too quickly assumed Karima died from suicide. To him, the investigative work by the police, detailed in the report, remains insufficient. Go do your investigation and come up with some concrete evidence and give it to us. But you've gone through this, what do you think?

Does this prove suicide or does this make you feel more that she committed suicide by going through this report? Or do you think that this report is insufficient? If you ask me, they just look one angle of the case. They try to, you know, whatever they got from the conversation and everything, they want to look this angle. And they are convinced maybe that because maybe they have a lot of experience of dealing with such cases. But for me, I think they don't do any other investigation other than that, like interviewing people or at least looking into the history. That's what my concern, that's what our community is concerned with. Why don't if a person who's saying, if a family member is saying, you look into the history, check at least what happened when she was here.

They don't do it. I guess the strongest thing here is that she showed a photograph that she took at Toronto Island to your wife and stating that she wanted to go into the water, that's a very strong statement. As I keep reading, I uncover another piece of information I didn't know about. It says here that the family wanted to search the area was because of the mention of wanting to go into the water. that the family wanted to search the area was because of the mention of wanting to go into the water. According to the report,

members of Karima's family went to the island to search for her the day she went missing. Samir then tells me it was his wife and Hummel who went there. The family had access to an online record showing Karima had taken a subway and streetcar to Toronto's waterfront earlier that day, indicating most likely she was heading to the ferry to take her to the islands, a place she liked to go.

Samir believes his sister went there for solace and nothing more. Every time she has some depression or something, she's visiting that spot. Everyone knows that. Samir wasn't part of that search for Karima on the island. He had to stay home and look after his kids. I can't ask Karima's sister-in-law about it, and I only had one interview with Hummel, and that was before I knew this information. But we can speak to two men who were there that day.

We care, she care. Yeah, hi, is this Tyler? Yeah. Hi, Tyler, my name is Mary Link, I'm a friend of... Oh, yeah, how you doing? Good, and she gave me your phone. Tyler Ganton lives on Toronto Islands and has a truck for his tree care company, one of the few vehicles on the islands.

I was told that when Karima Belucci went missing, the woman who came over in December... Oh, yeah. Yeah, and you were driving around her sister-in-law. Yeah, I was. Early that Sunday evening, a few hours after Karima first went missing, Tyler helped Karima's husband and her sister-in-law search the islands for her. Can you tell me a bit about that day?

So, me and my friend... Jeff, right? Yeah, Jeff was on the boat with him. He's like a really caring guy. Jeff Temporelli was on the same ferry to the island as Karima's family. Noticing they were upset, he went over to talk to them. They were pretty, they were definitely pretty worried, shaken up. Like they were heading to the island and we just noticed, because it was Sunday, I can't even remember, it was the middle of winter.

It was just weird to see two people going to the island. Weird, as he says, because it was winter, uninviting to visitors who didn't live there. They usually come in the summer, and it was dark around 6 p.m. They explained, she showed me the video, I think. A video? And what was it of? It was of the pier. Okay, I was like, well, that's the pier. In the police report, this visual of the pier that Karima sent her sister-in-law is always referred to as a photograph.

With Jeff saying that it may have been a video, I take a closer look at the image. The police had included a picture of Karima's cell phone in the report, with that image of the pier opened up on the screen. And there it is, a small play button and mute button indicating that it was indeed a video, not a photo as the police had been reporting. Police wrote it was accompanied by a text message, but there's no photo of a text in the report, so maybe it wasn't a text. Maybe Karima recorded her voice while filming the pier, recorded a message for her sister-in-law,

and police interpreted this message as a key piece of evidence that Karima died by suicide. But if it had been an audio message, why hadn't police transcribed what she said word for word? We asked Toronto police why the exact wording of the message or any mention of the video was not included in the report. They did not give us an answer. On the ferry, when Jeff is shown the video of the pier, he becomes concerned about how Karima's husband and sister-in-law will get there

once the boat docks. And I was like, that's like, you know, two kilometers away, and it was freezing. Like, they were not dressed for it at all. So I said, like, maybe I can get my buddy to drive you down in his truck. So I texted Tyler.

I think Tyler actually met the boat, like, 10 minutes later. And I remember it was a cold and pretty windy night. And then where did they want to go right away? To the pier? We went straight to the pier, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we went straight to the pier, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, we went straight to the pier, and I had a very, very kind of eerie feeling when we got out there. And I go out there all the time. So, yeah, Jeff, so you guys went directly, you drove directly to the pier. Did you get out when you got to the pier to look around? Yeah, we went to the end of the pier. The Centre Island Pier is a long concrete jetty reaching out into Lake Ontario.

At the end, there's a large observational deck that branches out into two directions, to the east and to the west, like a Y. It was on the eastern side, by the pier's edge, where police would later find Karima's purse. So did you look around? Because her purse was left there. You never saw her purse? No. You know what, personally, I think it's a bit weird that we, depending on where the purse was, like, I don't know, I remember we definitely got out of the truck, we walked to the end of the pier, we walked around the whole pier. Are there lights at all on the pier? I believe the pier is pretty well lit up. And you looked around, is this funny that the four of you wouldn't see her purse.

Yeah, no, that is a bit strange for sure. We don't know exactly when Karima died, but we do know when she arrived on the island, three hours before her family. And it seems unlikely that four people would have missed her mustard yellow and green purse sitting at the end of the pier all by itself, the same area they were searching. And maybe because they were looking for a person, not a purse, that they simply missed it.

But it is possible if Karima's purse wasn't on the pier at that time, she was still alive somewhere else on the island. A heartbreaking thought. After searching the pier, the four of them, Jeff, Tyler, Hummel, and Karima's sister-in-law, continued driving around looking for Karima. Tyler said, okay, well, I'll check a few other spots with you while you're here. And they were in the back of Tyler's truck.

And she was, like, calling out her name. It's really, like, ugh. I'm even thinking about it now. What did she think happened to Karima? She basically told me that, like, she knew she was in trouble. She said, like, she had sent her a text or a video or a picture, I can't remember, a combination. She was just concerned, I'd say, that she was in danger,

like, whether it was suicide or what. I asked Tyler what he remembers. And what were they saying to you? They had to stop her, but I didn't get the impression that it was a typical suicide situation. Like somebody had lost all their money or somebody was on drugs. It just felt like something else was going on, and I didn't want to pry. I mean, there was obviously a task at hand, which was just trying to focus on locating the person before anything happened. It was more like she said that she was going to jump.

But I don't know if there's specific words like she's suicidal. Right. I think she just said that she was going to jump. I just knew that somebody might be hurting themselves for some reason or another. Tyler and I were both like, oh, this is so brutal. Just like it was just a tragic situation. Like it was sad. But then we went from the pier, yeah, and we drove to like, you know, a few other different spots.

But I kind of said to Jess, like, like, I think she's gone. And we continued to drive around and everything, but after, we both kind of just, like, we had a really bad feeling. And then my friend Brian Jones found the body in the morning. And so the Monday I was at work and I was doing a garbage run and I saw a heavy police presence on the island at the pier.

So we don't have that very often here on the island. Brian Jones learns police are searching for a missing person, a person they believe may be in the water. I don't know how long they were there for. Right. I don't think they were there for very long. Some of them were walking in the completely wrong direction as far as if uh they if they thought she'd drown but you never know like um you know some

they they check everything right they check the bushes around the beach but i knew i knew with the southwest wind and it wasn't very much. It wasn't enough to really move somebody around that far. So I looked at the water. I'm a fisherman here in the lake, and I looked at the water and knew how the currents worked. And it was the same wind day as it was the day before, and I knew exactly where she would be. It was at my favorite swimming hole on the island so i went there immediately and looked over the break wall and i saw i saw her i didn't go and try and i didn't go down close to her um so at the most of the time she was

probably 100 feet away from me and as soon as i her, I waved over to the pier where all the cops were. And as soon as I waved, there was a six-foot drone, cop drone, above my head. That must have been an incredibly difficult moment. Well, it was actually, I was secretly, not secretly, but I was happy that it was over. You know, he stopped looking. There was no more questions as to if we're going to find her. Because some people don't ever get back. So if the wind had been different that day, we might never have found Karima.

Absolutely. If it was a north wind, she probably would have gone further out into the lake. I'm glad she was found. It was me, but I'm glad she was found. Yeah, I'm glad you found her too. You know, I felt relieved to end it. Because like I said, sometimes the body's never come back. I asked Brian if there's anything he'd like to say to Karima's family. Um, I just, I hope you find some closure. I hope you find what you're looking for.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. The day after I returned from Toronto, I combed through the police report. It details every step taken by police, from the moment Karima is reported missing, to the discovery of her body, to the rationale for the conclusion of suicide. To respect her family, some more personal details I will not share. But here are some of the key parts of the report. The police refer to Karima by her family's last name, Mehrab, and where the name is redacted, we've added sister-in-law. At approximately 12.30 on the afternoon of Sunday, December 20, 2020,

her sister-in-law drove Mehrab to the NIMAR clinic. Her sister-in-law offered to drive Mayrab home, but she declined, stating she would walk home. Mayrab left her cell phone at home, which her sister-in-law believes she did on purpose. Then it's noted in the report that Karima meets with a doctor who prescribes her five sleeping pills, each at a dose of five milligrams.

I consulted with a pharmacist who told me this is a mid-range dose of this particular sleep aid. At 22.37, the complainant called police to report Karima missing. 23.03, officers arrived on scene and commenced an investigation. an investigation. Officers begin at Karima's home, searching her room, her phone, and social media accounts. They find no notes or writings that help the investigation. But they do find something in her email that is telling, indicating that before she even left home, her plan that Sunday was to go to the island.

Her plan that Sunday was to go to the island. At 11.54 on the morning of Sunday, December 20th, 2020, Meerab purchased a ticket for the Toronto Island Ferry Service on the City of Toronto website, receiving a copy of her ticket and receipt via email. According to the report, Karima didn't tell her family she had bought this ticket or that she was intending to visit the island after her doctor's appointment that day. They were still expecting her home for lunch. Based on the information that the decedent was at Centre Island the day prior and, quote, wanted to go in the water,

a physical search was commenced there by 52 Division and Marine Unit. Nothing is found until the morning. At 0614 on the morning of Monday, December 21st, 2020, Mayreb's purse was located on the Center Island Observation Pier. The purse was located standing upright, centered, at the very end of the Eastern Observation Pier. standing upright, centered, at the very end of the eastern observation pier. Among the possessions found inside of Karima's purse,

a half-empty bottle of water and an empty pill bottle in a prescription bag. At the bottom of the bag are two pills. Three are missing. They also find a printout of her ferry ticket. According to the timestamp on the paper, Karima had printed it off before she left home that morning. There were no notes in her purse. Karima's body was discovered three hours after the purse was located. The coroner found no signs of trauma before her death.

Traces of sleeping pills, the same she was prescribed, were found in her system. In the days that followed, police looked for witnesses and additional surveillance footage of Karima's last moments. They found none. In police report, there was no available information or evidence to suggest that Karima died as a result of her political activism and criticism of the Pakistani government. Two days after Karima was found, police write a conclusion report. These are the key facts they cite as evidence. A manner of death of suicide was explored and substantiated for the following reasons.

Mihrab's family stated she was depressed. Mihrab had sent a photograph to her sister-in-law that was taken by her, standing on the Centre Island Observation Pier, oriented towards the southeast, looking over Lake Ontario. This photograph was sent just 41 hours before Mayrab's body was located 395 meters east of the location of the photo. The photograph shows the very same pier where Mehrab's purse was located just 38 hours after the photo was sent. We now know what police referred to as a photo was actually a video sent by Karima to her sister-in-law.

sent by Karima to her sister-in-law. Mehrab had sent a text message along with the photograph to the effect of, quote, I like to come here because I feel at peace. We should come back here one day and go for a swim. Mehrab was located deceased just 395 meters from where the photograph was taken, less than two days after the photograph was taken. In the involved investigator's training and experience, a person who dies by suicide will often do so in a location where they are familiar with and feel peace and comfort.

Mehrab's purse was located 395 meters away from her body. It was standing right up, zippered closed, and appeared to be purposefully placed, as opposed to being dropped, forgotten, or discarded. Based on the involved investigator's training and experience, a person who dies by suicide in water will often leave personal belongings, footwear, or articles of clothing neatly placed on land at the point where they entered the water. This can be referred to as marking. Another key factor, according to findings listed in the report,

is a reasonable assumption Karima herself took the three missing sleeping pills, counter to the prescription's instructions. The prescription states the patient is to take one pill daily. By taking three pills in less than 24 hours, it is surmised that this in and of itself was a self-harm or suicide attempt, or they were consumed prior to making a suicide attempt by other means in an effort to potentially suppress or minimize any pain or discomfort and or to overcome any physiological defense mechanisms.

Here are the final words of the Toronto Police's conclusion report dated Wednesday, December 23, 2020. There are no suspicious or criminal circumstances surrounding Karima Mehrab's death. All information and evidence available suggests that she boarded a ferry at the Jack Layton Ferry Terminal bound for Toronto Island by herself at 1500 hours on the afternoon of Sunday, December 20th, 2020, and at some point thereafter, and of her own volition, entered the waters of Lake Ontario on the south side of Centre Island from the Centre Island Pier with the intention of ending her life. There is no evidence or information to suggest that another person or persons were present for or involved in Mayrub's Based on all available facts, evidence, and information,

when considering the totality of the circumstances, Merab's cause of death was determined to be drowning and her manner of death to be suicide. It's the day after arriving back home from Toronto. I'm talking to my producer, Alina, after I've had a chance to read the report more carefully. She was a very real person who faced very real persecution, and maybe life just became too much for her, at least.

This is what the report's kind of indicating. Yeah. I will never be 100% sure that it was suicide. I just won't be. But it's pretty sad signs. It's just very painful. It's very painful. And like you say, she was seemingly unstoppable. unstoppable. Throughout this call, I can't stop thinking about what I'm going to say to Samir.

He gave me this report in part so I could tell him what I thought of it. I feel like I have to tell him what I think, and that's going to be hard. But he asked me. I mean, I'm not a to be hard. But he asked me. I mean, I'm not a police officer. I'm not an investigator. I do think there should have been more questioning in terms of, you know, looking into what threats the family said there were, that there should be, yeah, there should be more investigation.

I can see why the family wants that. But at the same time, everything's pointing to a different truth. But before I can tell Samir what I see in the police and coroner's report, I need to be sure that I'm not missing anything. I need to share the documents with someone who is an expert on matters such as this, and I want it to be one of the world's best. And I know who that is. Hello? Hey, Samir, it's Mary. Hello, Mary, how are you? Good, honey, how are you? I call Samir in late February 2022 and bring up the name.

What I would like to do is to have the new head, the new special rapporteur for the UN, if he agrees. Now, he might not, so I don't want to get your hopes up, my hopes up. But his name is Morris Tidball-Bintz is a UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary, or arbitrary executions. As a young medical student in Argentina, Morris worked closely with the grandmothers of Plaza de Mayo, who were fighting to recover children who had been abducted by the state. Morris specializes in forensic science, has applied to human rights violations, and he has conducted investigations in more than 70 countries.

You would have the top world expert on this, if he's willing to do it, to look at it. Yeah, I mean, Mary, see anyone credible and you can trust them with the report. You think if it can help. I mean, I don't have any objection. The thing is, my opinion, Amal's opinion,

family members' opinion, because, you know, Mary, whatever we say, there is an emotional aspect, you know? Yeah. We have a desire for the things to turn out differently. So at least if even they are not doing an investigation,

but we have expert opinion, at least we have a closure on this side. With Samir's blessing, I reach out to Morris, who lives in France. And despite his considerable obligations, he kindly agrees to review the police and coroner's report. So I send him the documents. Weeks later, Dr. Morris Tidbalpens has the time to share his thoughts on Karima's case. It's been a busy morning. He's in Geneva for UN meetings. Since we first talked, Russia has invaded Ukraine and a war has broken out.

And it's been getting worse by the day. Actually, I was at the Human Rights Council and running awfully late. So now we finally connect. Council and running awfully late so now we finally connect. I went through all the documents and most of them I read thoroughly and especially of course the ones that are of particular let's say professional concern to me but in addition to that I actually looked a bit more into the case, trying to put things together and, of course, discuss this with Professor Michael Polanin, Ontario's chief forensic pathologist, who was actually the person ultimately responsible for

the post-mortem examination and final conclusions, including sort of the background of the victim, the reported behavior of the victim, of Karima, sort of days, weeks before, as reported by the family, the video surveillance images,, of course, other details as a fact that, you know, she bought a strong hypnotic sedative shortly before actually boarding the boat to Toronto Islands. Some family-related information that is also in the police report. It's all sort of, it's fully consistent with, you know, suicide, a case of suicide. And there it is. Morris determined based on evidence available, Karima's death was caused by suicide. My first thought is how to tell this to Samir. I ask Morris what he would

say to Karima's family to help them better understand his conclusion. That's a very difficult question. I mean, in fact, it's an observation, an empirical observation of facts, that the incidence of self-harm or suicide among people who are under a lot of stress and out of their very active and committed engagement, either in politics, human rights, environmental issues, etc. The higher than normal levels of suicide is something that is a fact. I mean, no one has done a study of this, but it is a fact that I can recall several cases in Mexico, South Africa, et cetera, of usually young activists who commit suicide. And of course, there's always all kinds of questions about these cases. But for a number of them, there is no doubt whatsoever that they were suicide. That doesn't explain why Karima committed suicide.

But it's something to bear in mind, to understand why this person who was with us, all of a sudden, the burden and pressure and the conflict which such activism bring together may at times in some persons lead to levels of depression, at least temporary depression, which might be unbearable. And for me, that's relatively easy to understand. And perhaps then the family will say, well, why didn't we know? Well, according to the information that I was able to extract from all the files, et cetera, the family was aware that she was going through a depressive period. She had made some statements that, you know, on retrospective

were not indicative that, you know, I'm going to commit suicide or anything like that. You can't interpret it exactly that way. But put together, it gives a picture of alarm bells ringing. And it's a fact that in most family contexts and scenarios, we don't, and as a human being, we're not prepared to actually read those red signals. actually don't, we're not prepared to actually read those red signals. Morris, there was something too that always struck me about Karima in terms of being stoic, in terms of the pressure of being stoic and not showing fear, all those many years of being stoic. And one thing that really struck me was that at one point, Morris, she was flying to Montreal to go before an immigration judge. And just before getting on the plane, she found out her beloved uncle back in Balochistan,

who they had threatened to kill, to abduct and kill if she didn't come home, if she didn't stop her activism. But she refused because she believed in her cause and her family supported her. His body was found dumped just before she was going to get on the plane. And I remember asking someone her reaction, and I was told that she didn't react. And I know how much she loved him. And I know how devastated that news must have been. There you go.

I mean, that's a classical, let's say, sign or symptom of an overwhelming, unmanageable angst, because the normal thing is to express cry, you know, curse, kick. That would be the normal thing. If you don't do that, you're doing it to yourself. She was so devoted to the cause and the cause was so important to her that she paid very less attention to herself, to her self-care. Zafar Jawed, while not saying Karima died by suicide, does remember she always put others and the cause before herself. A fellow Baluch activist in Toronto, Zafar knew Karima during her time in Canada. activist in Toronto, Zafar Nukarima, during her time in Canada.

And she did not care what happened to her because she knew that her family, her colleagues, her comrades and people who were with her in the struggle, they have suffered so much that for her being in Canada and suffering from a trauma was something very mild for her, laughable. She said over there people are not sure whether they're going to live to see tomorrow. And over here, I should be worried about my mental health. So a person who is under constant stress for half of her life, like half of her life was completely devoted to this and she suffered for that. But she never spoke about that. She just took it very lightly. And she always laughed it off. And she said, don't worry about me. Let's worry about people who are being massacred over there. But I knew that from many ways that she suffered,

that she was definitely suffering from these traumas. I'm preparing myself to talk to Samir to tell him Morris' findings about how Karima died. But in terms of who's responsible for her death, Samir has never been in doubt. This is from one of our earliest conversations. Who's responsible, if someone asks me? Of course Pakistan is responsible Whether Karima and Sajid died by suicide or homicide Samir holds the Pakistani state responsible

For more than a year, in conversation after conversation, Samir told me what the Baloch people go through at the hands of the Pakistani state. This war, this conflict in Balochistan, subjected our whole community to trauma, to agony, and helplessness. It never happened to a normal society like people die like this in their prime, one by one. It's not like it's not an individual thing it's a collective thing. We haven't slept for years without nightmares, without someone visiting from the other side in our dreams.

This is the common agony the whole Maloosh society is going through. Who visits you in your dreams? Sometimes it's Sajid, sometimes it's Karima. Sometimes it's just them alive, there, and it feels like real. Like you come to realize that, oh, I was worried about something. I was so worried that they left us and now they're here and then you wake up it's just middle of the night imagine waking up 4 a.m. or 3.30 a.m. and this is this is you know this is not only me and it's it's easy to say you know to tell a victim's

family that you should not feel survival's guilt, you should be happy. But our perception of our world and our reality consists on people we love. It's nothing without the people around us, right? Samir says for the Baloch who do escape the dangers of Pakistan, another type of trauma awaits them. Those people who fled their homes, they see every day the posts, the people even within our society, there are people, right, they will tell you, make you feel guilty,

oh, your friends are in jail, your friends are missing, and you're sitting in Canada. You're sitting in Sweden. Exile is a disease. Sajid Hussain wrote this line in a short story while living in Sweden. It is in part autobiographical, enlaced with dry humor and satire, but also speaks to the struggles faced by the Baluch who have fled their homeland. Sajid writes, Since I went into exile, people's taunts and reproaches are killing me. This kind of criticism always ends with the same admonishment, quote, Don't forget you got your asylum

by using the name of these poor Baluch. Sajid's piece on exile is featured in a new collection of Baluchi short stories published by Uppsala University. It's called Unheard Voices and is dedicated to Sajet's memory. Quote, There are many of us who miss Sajet very much. Let us take care of each other, help carry each other's burdens,

and never take each other for granted. Life sometimes ends far sooner than anyone had expected. Another book of Bellucci writings is being published by Uppsala University in 2023, this one dedicated to Karima. However Karima and Sajjad may have died, I do want to emphasize that during my investigation, it was revealed that Pakistani dissidents in the West have caused to be uneasy for their safety, for their lives. On January 28, 2022, a jury in London

convicted a British Pakistani man of conspiracy to murder Waqas Ghoraiya in the Netherlands. Waqas is a Pakistani dissident who had confided to me while in hiding in the spring of 2021, long before it became public, that an assassin was after him. Just after the verdict came down, I called Wakas. Hi Wakas, how are you doing? I'm good.

Yeah? What's your reaction today, do you think? It's a good president at least it is yet to be determined who was behind the assassination plot against wakas though british police say the investigation continues according to the prosecutor the hit was ordered by unknown persons who appeared to be based in Pakistan. The job would pay £100,000, and there was talk of two more jobs after Waqas was killed. The prosecutor also said the motive of those who ordered the assassination was evident.

Quote, Mr. Gariya was known for speaking out against the activities of the Pakistani government and appears to have been targeted for that reason. Are you still feeling very nervous? I hope this will put an end to lots of things. On March 11, 2022, Mohammed Gohir Khan was sentenced to life in prison in a British court. Wakas maintains that the Pakistani state was behind the plot. What Kast maintains that the Pakistani state was behind the plot. Western governments, they usually like very underestimate Pakistan. All the Western governments, they say, no, they cannot do it. It basically disproves everything which Americans, Swedish, Canadians are saying.

Pakistan's Ministry of Foreign Affairs did not respond to requests for an interview to discuss the allegations against the state that have been reported in this series. After the decision in the London trial, Karima's death returned to the media spotlight. Wakasa's experience now proved the worst fears of Pakistani dissidents in the West could come true, and calls to reopen Karima's case began again. And just weeks later, I would discover that Toronto pleases justification for closing the investigation so quickly after her death. Back in February 2022, when I first read the report in full, I woke up in the middle of the night, unable to sleep.

It's 4.13 in the morning. After I went through the police report very carefully, I'm just recording myself on my iPhone. I don't know how to tell this to Samir, but he told me he was going to listen to me. But this is really painful, to have to sit down with Samir and say to him what evidence I see in this report, what this report is pointing to.

The last interview for this series is one I've dreaded, but it's time to talk to Samir. Samir is outside the country, visiting a family. Hello? Samir. Hi, Mary, how are you? Good, how are you? How are you?

Eventually, we start talking about Dr. Morris Tidball-Bentz. I play for Samir the tape of his conclusion, including that Karima's death, based on all the evidence... It's fully consistent with a case of suicide. evidence. It's fully consistent with a case of suicide. Is there anything in you that could accept that Karima could have committed suicide? Is there anything, or is that just

you can't go there? To tell you the truth, Mary, I'm not want to be in a position to speculate on someone so close, you know, to me. Yeah. On her death, like, what if I'm wrong tomorrow? That would be a betrayal to her.

Yeah. As a brother, I don't want to betray her. Because I know it is very difficult for others to understand. But where I stand, I don't want to speculate because I don't have any evidence. And I don't want to make it, you know, to tell my mom that, you know, you should have some peace, she might commit suicide. That would be a betrayal.

But the thing is, you cannot be sure. No. For me, it is not important if Karima, Sajid, or anyone else committed suicide, or somebody killed them. anyone else committed suicide or somebody killed them. The circumstances which they were being placed in, created by a powerful state that is Pakistan, the Western ally. And unfortunately, they were placed in a circumstances where they cannot continue living with human dignity. I don't think in the end it matters who killed her, you know, whose hand was there, you know. It was the circumstances responsible. For us, what difference it will make, it will bring Kareim and Sajid back. For us, it is the same.

We cannot see them. We will not be able to talk with them again. So, what can I say? We're going to hear the story, and people are going to hear the story of Sajjad and Karima and the story of Balochistan. It's not about how their lives ended as much as what their lives were about.

Yeah, that might bring some consolation to us. They will be part of our life, our memories, till the end of our life, that's for sure. For those close to Karima, for those in her homeland and around the world who looked up to her, Karima's death will always be seen as a killing at the hands of Pakistan, another name added to a long list. And in many ways, they will be right. In the end, the circumstances of Karima Baluch's death can never overshadow her life or her enduring legacy.

Karima is an inspiration for me along with all people, for all girls who belong to Baluchistan. Sami Baluch is part of a new generation of young women who have followed Karima into activism. Sami is now a leading voice for the disappeared. I am one of them who taught from Karima. These activities, these coming to the ground, fighting for your rights, fighting for your people. I learned this all from Karima.

Karima gave us a goal. People, I learned this all from Karima. Karima gave us a goal. People like us who can fight for her rights, who can fight for justice, who can fight for her land, her people. We really miss her. Still, we are following her path that which she gave to us, to all people,

to all the girls of Balochistan. On the one-year anniversary of Karima's death, protesters took to the streets across her beloved homeland of Balochistan. How many Karimas will you kill? Karima will emerge from every home. I'd like to thank all those throughout this series who shared their stories. I am grateful for their courage and trust. The Kill List is created by me, Mary Link, and written and produced along with Alina Ghosh. Mixing and sound design by Julia Whitman.

Studio direction by Nancy Regan. Our story editor is Chris Oak. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Fact-checking by Nancy Regan. Our story editor is Chris Oak. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Fact-checking by Emily Mathieu. Legal advice from Sean Mormon. Special thanks to Lateef Johar. Our senior producer is Cecil Fernandez. And the director of CBC Podcasts is Arif Noorani.

For their support on this series, we'd also like to thank Willow Smith, Damon Fairless, Raj Alawalia, Andrew Lathau, Jerry West, Jennifer Alford, Alison Zosky, Pat Martin, Kia Baluch, and Michael Link. If anything you've heard in this series has left you looking for someone to talk to, please visit cbc.ca slash tklresources. We have information there for those in need of support. And if you like this series, please help others find it by leaving us a review on your favorite podcast app.

Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening.