Uncover - S22 E7: No More Secrets | "The Band Played On"

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

There's a confrontation as a victim demands accountability from the institution he says failed them all. Meanwhile, the drama heads back to court, with more charges and fresh convictions. Survivors gather together with Peter Hamer to laugh, heal and shed the secrets they say are no longer theirs to keep. Listener discretion is advised.

Hi there, I'm Gavin Crawford. I'm a writer, an actor, and a comedian. And for the last eight or nine years, I have been navigating life with my mother's increasing dementia. Has it been sad? Yeah. Has it been funny? Also, yeah. That's what my podcast series, Let's Not Be Kidding, is about. It's the true story of my life as a comedian, my mom, and dementia. Let's not be kidding. With me, Gavin Crawford.

Available now. This is a CBC Podcast. Just a quick note before we begin. You're going to be hearing victims of sexual abuse share some disturbing details. It can be difficult to listen to. This podcast is not intended for young audiences and it contains explicit language. If you find these stories affect you, please reach out to a mental health professional for help. I've come to realize guilt, shame, and self-blame are part of a three-piece suit

worn by many victims of sexual abuse, as well as some of the people who love them. You're reading it absolutely right. There's a lot of shame. There's a lot of false guilt. You know, there's a lot of, I should have known better. I should have caught this. I wish we'd all spoken to one another. There's so many of them and we all knew each other. A lot of us, I know a lot of these people. I wasn't strong enough to come forward. I just wasn't strong enough because I couldn't take the heat myself, by myself, even though I knew I wasn't the only one.

But no, that wrecked me. That bothered me for many, many years and many times and still today. I know logically that it wasn't my fault, and I'm understanding that now, but to retrain my brain after over a decade of convincing myself that I was the one that did this. It's a heavy shame that I'm fighting. I felt, certainly after I initially had him charged, like I betrayed him. And, you know, and that's where it came out.

When I finally said, okay, this is not my secret, right? And that was what goes in my head all the time. It's not my secret. Yeah, I feel a lot of guilt and I feel a lot of anger. And, you know, it's not just my brother, right? We've all been affected by it, right? My parents had to find this out. Like, it's not, it reverberates.

And I don't know how much people, like, realize how many victims there are all the time. Because every victim has the relationships that didn't go right and the problems with their parents and the, you know, it it's amazing it's just so much bigger than you would ever imagine. Now the victims, survivors, need someone to be held accountable. The school board comes into their line of sight. This is a very hard thing for me to do. My name is Mark Leach.

I was a student at... Mark Leach arrives unannounced at a public meeting of the Ottawa-Carlton District School Board. It's November 2018. Mark Leach calmly inserts himself into the meeting, but he's nervous. I stand here in front of you today as one of the victims of Bob Clark in the 1990s. That's Robert Borden. The paper in his hand is shaking. I have a few questions and statements today.

Mark Leach was an army brat. His dad, a decorated Canadian general, died in 2015. Mark never told his parents what Bob Clark did to him. He didn't tell anyone back then. And yet now he's confronting the school board in a very public way. I look at all of you, and I know you're not personally responsible for letting this happen to me and others. In the past, different people at this school board failed to act on several warnings about Bob Clark. These warnings came before Mark Leach was sexually assaulted by Clark in the music room of his high school.

You've taken on a duty to represent the organization that did let this happen to us. They're sitting in this vast boardroom in a building that happens to be right next door to his former high school. Twelve school board trustees, people elected to represent the school communities, sit around a big semicircle table. They look Mark's way. All we want is the truth, and we don't want the truth being hidden. Mark's wife is in the audience. so is Peter Hamer and his wife.

Peter's also a victim of Bob Clark. They're all here for moral support. I'm sure you're all very good people, and you want the best for students, which is why you're here. The trustees stare, blank-faced. I've heard in the news recently an administrator review found that nothing was done wrong in the past. Blank faced. Why is it that the CBC reporter did a detailed investigation to find all this out and you did an administrative review and found nothing? We can never forgive what was allowed to happen to us. I'm sure you tried to offer a sincere apology, but please do not.

My next point, pictures of Mr. Clark still hang prominently in the hallway towards the music room next door at Stroud and Borden. I ask that you remove these pictures. For almost 30 years now, students have been walking past pictures of a sexual predator that was allowed free range on students that was never stopped. Lastly, the most important part of my statement is this. important part of my statement is this you are to ensure every single person here you are to ensure past this point and is now your responsibility that this

will never happen to anyone ever again thank you for letting me speak the school board chairperson turns on her microphone thank you very much for your delegation I know that must have been difficult. We appreciate it. And then there's silence. Not one of the board trustees says anything more. They look down at their agendas, ready to move on to the next topic. I'm shocked. So is Mark Leach. I'd now call for a mover and a seconder to confirm the board minutes of 30th. When I go looking for a comment, one trustee tells me the board was advised against saying anything for legal reasons. So no one does.

Mark Leach walks back over to his wife, looking a bit stunned. Peter Hamer and his wife get up. They put on their coats. They all walk out of the boardroom together and into the lobby. I follow. So what do you think of how the board responded to what you were saying tonight? I had no expectations, so I came here with the sole purpose of reading my statement and saying what I had to say, because I've had this overwhelming urge to tell them how I feel and how this made me feel.

I was hoping maybe someone would recognize us and come over and say, you know, thank you for coming, we want to hear what you have to say. But no, I had to sign up and this and that, and they didn't even know my name. we want to hear what you have to say, but no, I had to sign up and this and that, and they didn't even know my name. It's like an adversarial sort of climate here. We're the people who are trying to hurt what they've been working on. I don't get it. I turned to Peter Hamer.

I expected more than Mark expected. I came here to support him because this is a difficult thing, but there's no way they didn't recognize us and I expected them to at least provide a little bit more acknowledgement and even though Mark said that he didn't want an apology it doesn't matter they should have apologized they should have said something and you know I guess maybe this wasn't the right forum for that to happen but it still makes me angry that that was the response that we got. Has anyone from the board ever reached out to you or Mark or any of the other victims of Bob Clark in the past? Nobody has reached out and my name has been out there since March 21st. I'm pretty easy to find,

and nobody has said a thing to me in the last eight months. I'm Julie Ireton. After more than a year, this investigation has found answers for 44 former students abused by teachers. And now they're demanding accountability from the institutions they say failed them. Revealing their secrets is helping them heal. What we've learned in a year is astronomical. Like it's just mind-boggling to know where we are now to where we were.

It's obviously been very good for him to take this secret off of him and put it where it belonged. I am grateful for Peter because I will not get my justice the way I imagined I would get justice. But his ability to have his abuser pay the price that's my victory too. They now have proof. Warnings were ignored. Authorities didn't act. The band played on. Episode 7, No More Secrets. secrets. Good evening. It's seven o'clock and minus three degrees with light snow in Ottawa. I'm Lawrence Wall from the CBC Ottawa newsroom. Some victims of sexual abuse at two Ottawa schools are calling for the school board to investigate three former teachers. The CBC has revealed that school administrators ignored warnings about two of those teachers at Bell High School.

November 2018, CBC produces a series of investigative news stories. And for the first time, victims disclose publicly what went on at Bell High School over the decades. The CBC's Julie Ireton investigated these cases and files this report. Instantly, emails start pouring into my inbox. Hundreds of them. A CBC investigation has now found that two other teachers were abusing students at Bell High School. There are intimate details of historical sexual abuse at the hands of different teachers in different towns. From the Maritimes to British Columbia to the Yukon, from New Zealand and Britain.

Stories they've never shared with anyone before. But I also hear from people who were assaulted by the three Bell High School teachers that I've been investigating. People like Rob Farron in Northern Ontario. Because my story precedes the stories in your article. And I thought, if I'd have done something, maybe all these people, the people in your stories that were exposed to him, maybe that wouldn't have happened. Rob Farron's encounter was on a canoe trip in 1968. We heard from him in an earlier episode. It involved the coach, Don Grenham, and abuse in a tent on a canoe trip.

People did go to authorities. They did report these people. They reported him, and he still sailed on through his career as if he was some hero. Then I hear from Sarah Hahn, a victim of the music teacher Tim Stanitz. She was his student in the 1990s and she says he took her to his home and to his bed. I couldn't help but feel like this is my time. I may not have come forward at the time when it was happening to me and I may not have come out when it first came out in 2016 with the other girls but you know what I have to do something because too many people are getting hurt.

And then there was the call that came from John Cody. We heard his story in episode one. He was in Bob Clark's bands at Bell High. I've been broken since this. John Cody is a musician, a songwriter. He's worked with Tom Cochran. He sang with Joni Mitchell. He didn't come forward when Peter Hamer and the seven other men first made allegations against Bob Clark. He wasn't even aware of the allegations at that point.

But Cody knows Clark is in prison now. You know, he's fucked my shit up. And if I had to see him, which I don't want to, it would not be a good day for either of us. John Cody went to Bell High in the late 1970s. Your name was contacted by email, so I did. Because I wanted to say I know that guy, and I told two teachers about him, and I thought that that was significant to the story, especially since the teachers that I told, they were great teachers. And so the fact that they did nothing, I just couldn't believe it. And I thought, well, I better reach out to you.

So that's what I did. He's angry. And like other victims, he I better reach out to you. So that's what I did. He's angry. And like other victims, he wants accountability from the school board, Clark's former employer. It's the fucking school board. Like at first, you know, I'm going like, what is this, the Catholic church or something? And then I think, no, no, it's worse. People choose to go to church. People choose to be Catholic. You are, as parents,

mandated to send your children to school. As a child, you're mandated to go to school. All of these things. So you have to trust the school system. I feel sorry for the teacher that I do for those people. At least he knew he was fucked up. You know, he knew it. Five days after he heard the news stories, John Cody went to police. It was a tough decision to come forward. At that point, it was like,

I don't want to fucking think about this dude, you know? I don't want to go through all that shit again. And talking's not exactly hard for me to do. This is some of the hardest talking I've ever had to do. I write music about my life, though, so it's not like I'm unaccustomed to revealing things. I don't think you can make art without revealing something of yourself. Just before Christmas 2018, police detectives came to Cody's Montreal apartment, and he told them his story.

I'm enjoying this visit better. Bob Clark was already in prison when police laid new charges against him in John Cody's case. Cody braced for a court appearance. And I thought, well, if he pleads not guilty, that's just so that we're going to have to go to court and go through this whole fucking thing in front of people. We're going to play this cat and mouse game. I'm not doing that.

And then I go, hold on a second. No, I am fucking doing that. No more secrets for John Cody. Yeah, because I'm not a secret keeper. Back at Bell High School that back room still exists. Peter Hamer showed me the back room months ago. It was the evening we visited Bell on the night of a band concert. Where are we now? We're in the back part of the music room. The little room is where he would take people to do their music tests.

It wasn't, you know, right now there's an organ in the desk. How many times I was in his office, or how many times I was in his like after hours for detention or being in the practice room all right and in the practice room there's a window in the door and he would just I'd be I was locked in that room so and he would just look through the window you know and it was creepy there is there's two windows. He would stand facing the windows and I would sit in his office chair facing him. It would be very cathartic for us to go in with sledgehammers and get rid of that office because there isn't a need for it. There's no,

the windows that are designed for safety so that people can see in are actually, you know, a predator's defense because they can see who in are actually, you know, a predator's defense because they can see who's coming and, you know, act quickly to cover up something. The back room, I wanted to brick it up. I want to knock it down. You know, because you go to the, you take math, and the math teacher doesn't have an office

behind the math classroom, right? It'd be very fun to go in there and remodel. Yeah. Back rooms should not exist. It's just, it's a temptation for anyone who has one, and we hear that they're constantly misused, and they're still there. Sexual abuse in school isn't ancient history,

and it's certainly not limited to Bell High. Abuse of children at school still happens. In fact, between 2017 and the spring of 2019, just 18 months, more than 100 cases of sex crimes against students in school have been reported in Canada. And those are crimes or allegations of school staff members harming kids. If that's not telling that we still have a problem, I don't know what is because really that's hard fact data. Noni Klassen. I am the director of education at the Canadian Centre for Child Protection. When it comes to sex abuse in schools, Klassen's organization did the research and crunched the numbers.

Between 1997 and 2017, the center found 750 sex abuse cases involving almost 1,300 kids. Most of the predators were teachers. And sometimes I think people get repelled by it because the thought is terrifying that this is where our children go. And that's why Klassen is now working with school boards across the country. We know that 1 in 10 children in Canada will experience child sexual abuse before they turn 18, and that's a contact offence. That's an epidemic if we looked at that as a disease. So the more that people can understand that when they think something or they see something,

that they should get in and disrupt and question it without relying on the child to do it, or the child to say something, that that's our responsibility as adults to be doing that. If we are going to put kids first and really want to protect children, that it's critical for people to start being more aware. The Bell High School abuse scandal did catch the attention of the Ottawa Carleton District School Board. It's taken action, and Noni Klassen is playing a part. After the initial investigation was published,

the board engaged this national charitable organization to help. The Ottawa Carleton District School Board has been really taking a look at this, and they're really committed in working with our agency to start learning about how they can be putting some policies in place, how they can be doing training and education and awareness to help. And she gives me a practical example of the kind of policy she means. And if someone might say well why do I have to get permission for this? Why can't I just drive the student home after school? Why do I have to get permission for this? I'm not going to harm a child. It's about turning around and going, I know I'm not going to harm a child, but it's not about me.

It's about our commitment to put systems in place that safeguard children in case someone's trying to do that. And we know that that's high risk for people who are grooming children and who can gain sexual access. So we have to put things in place. Like if we're going to be transporting children, there's policies around that and there's more than one child in the car. There could be more than one adult in the car. So the Ottawa school board is working on some new policies. Old photos of music teacher Bob Clark have finally been taken down and it's all a credit to these victims and their courage to speak out. I've found 44 victims connected to these three teachers and I've spoken to more than half of

these men and women. Many went to police and when charges were laid their names were under a publication ban to protect them. Then several of them decided to tell me their stories. So at their request I went to court several times to ask a judge to lift 10 different publication bans. My investigation led to more than 100 interviews from people across North America. hundred interviews from people across North America. Survivors weren't sure if talking publicly about what happened to them would make things better or worse, but they didn't want to keep it inside their own heads anymore. You know, you're 64 years old, you're going, ah, I dealt with that a long time ago. Forget it.

But you can't. You never will. This was someone that I was supposed to trust and who was supposed to take care of me and be responsible. It's heartbreaking that kids and their innocence are preyed upon. And I might have been hungry for attention, too, you know? Like, what kid is not hungry for affection? He was a predator, and it wasn't my fault.

And I was a child, and he abused my vulnerability and my trust. This guy stole my soul. He stole my soul, and I had, you know, I couldn't figure it out throughout life. And being silent so long, it's been, been you know I talk about it now because I should have been talking about it back then nobody knew about it do you just think well this this has only happened to me it doesn't it hasn't happened to anyone else so you know you don't want to be the odd bird so you don't say anything and make it safe for people who've kept their mouths shut for 20 or 30 years to step forward and say, yep, that happened to me too.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. It's like ripples in the water, you know? It just keeps going and going and going. This is an unlikely group of people meeting on a weeknight to drink wine and eat lasagna at Peter Hamer's house. They're socializing, as new friends do. We did it before it was cool. Yeah that's right. Before me too. They've come together as an informal support group. Men and women from different generations. Victims of different abusers. But they all went to the same high school. That's how I shared it on Facebook. The conversation here is surprisingly easy, but the humor is dark. There's no getting

away from what drew them together. Peter uncorks the wine. It's Australian. It's called Hope's End. That sounds expensive. Dark side. H-E. Mark Leach and his wife are here. So is Laurie Howitt. And another Clark victim is at the table. A publication ban still prevents me from saying his name.

Do you have a seating plan for us? No. Please find a spot. That's the seating plan. That's massive for me. Can I trade this with you? No, you're the one who cut it. That's too big for me. Thank you for coming to my house. And thank you for being a part of the club.

I've waited for this for a long time, and I'm hoping the next time we'll have even more people. Not that there should be more people. Yay, more victims. Peter sits with his elbows on the table, chin resting against his clasped hands. The tattoos up his forearms are in full view. One forearm has Latin writing from wrist to elbow.

Vitem impendere vero. It means seek out a truthful life. Lori has never noticed the tattoo before, but she instantly can translate it. I remember that was in my head before I even went to Bell because I saw it.

It's the motto for Bell High School. So I knew it before I got it tattooed on, but I'd already booked the tattoo and I wanted it. This is, if you go to Bell High School, like the Wikipedia page, what's the motto? Vitem impendre vero. Those Latin words have deeper meaning now. You weren't truthful back then.

It shouldn't be your motto, but it certainly is mine. I thought, fuck you. Like, that's not not you did not live up to that you didn't live up to it you never lived up to it in decades you didn't live up to seeking the truth you didn't you didn't you didn't stand up for the truth you stood up for the institution you protected yourselves you protected the school you protected the school, you protected the school board, and you hid the truth. Then Mark Leach chimes in. I'm gonna get my whole fucking arm tattooed next week right there. Get out. What kind of tattoo are you getting on your arm? It's gonna be, it's a big spiral. It's

gonna start off with the like the inside of a nautilus shell and then go to like a tree and vines and then it'll fade into like wind and wispy sort of cloudy stuff it'd be nice it'd be like the whole arm the whole right down the wrist mark has a thing about spirals really that's mark's wife salim we go snowshoeing and he'd always walk in a circle it's the spiral of contemplation and once you get to the center and work your way back you've worked out the problem and so you focus on it all the way in and you solve it on the way out and it's resolved and so for years and years and years he's been doing this it's like the closest thing to like a religious symbol for me too right something

that's happening like are you guys wanting to get tattoos i didn't get my ears pierced so i was 21 i'm not ready for that it's i think it's better than some of the other things you can do. The experience did mark them. It defines each of them in different ways. Are they victims? Or survivors? Or both? I don't identify as either, and it bothers me when people call me either. And victim is the only word that I can find that fits. But it doesn't define who I am now.

No, exactly. But it certainly defined who I was as a teenage boy. My dad says you're not a victim, you're a survivor. But I don't feel that way yet. I feel like I haven't survived it yet. I feel like I'm in the middle of the hurricane. And it's scary. And I can kind of see sky over there.

But I don't know if I'm going to make it through yet. So I feel like I can't say I'm a survivor until I get there. And even then, that word kind of sounds cheesy to me. I don't like the survivor. But yeah, victim fits me right now because of the fact that I feel like every day I acknowledge some part of my life that has been taken or changed because of him. This shared experience is helping Lori Howitt, the youngest of all the victims I've spoken to. She's 31. Tim Stanitz, the teacher who preyed upon her, died before her case got to court.

Today is a good day. But Lori finds some solace that those abused by Clark were vindicated by the justice system. She says it's a win for all of them. That's a victory for every single victim whether you know they come forward or they don't or there's a conviction or there isn't. It's a win for all of us because it encourages everyone to you know learn that they're not at fault and that what happened to them isn't unique, unfortunately, and that there are other people suffering just like they are, and it's okay to talk about it, and it's okay to get help for it.

Lori Howitt and other victims are not finished with the courts. Lori Howitt and other victims are not finished with the courts. Lori Howitt is suing, but she's not the only one. Several civil lawsuits have been filed against the Ottawa-Carlton District School Board, the employer of the three teachers. The lawsuits claim the school board was negligent in the historical abuse suffered. Casey Morris and Lori Howitt were both victims of Tim Stannis. They went to the same lawyer. Casey Morris filed the lawsuit at the same time as Lori. It's not about money. It's about getting the chance to tell someone this really happened and someone has to be held accountable for it.

What do you hope comes out of all of this? I hope that there's a change. I hope that there's an accounting and that people recognize that you have to speak up, that you have to talk when people, your colleagues or people in power are doing this, that it's not okay. Some of it was about closure for me of just being able to tell my story. Yeah, I think it was ultimately just forcing responsibility somewhere. Lawyers for the school board have filed statements of defense in response to all the claims. In each separate statement of defense, the board says each of the three teachers was, quote,

a model professional educator, respected and admired by students, parents, co-workers, other educators, the extended education community, and the school board, unquote. The board denies the teachers groomed and abused students, but the board says if such actions did take place, it was without the knowledge of the school board and contrary to the board's policies. Combined, the sex abuse victims are seeking more than $25 million in damages, but that figure is likely to go up as more survivors come forward and file suit. Peter Hamer, Mark Leach and several others are still considering a lawsuit.

I can't deal with the long dates way ahead, you know. You mean the civil lawyers? Yeah, yeah. The civil suits could take years to go before a judge or reach a settlement. In the meantime, Bob Clark's new criminal charges are about to land him back in court. Like this is real. criminal charges are about to land him back in court. Like this is real. And it's real for a lot of people.

John Cody has one more smoke before he heads into court. He holds his cigarette between gloved fingers. It's a cool, bright morning in March 2019, almost a year after Clark's first conviction. Oh my god. Cody, the singer-songwriter, met a new friend today. Someone else who went to Bell High around the same time. They didn't know each other back then in the late 1970s. 40 years later, they meet outside the courthouse.

Tell me your name on tape just so I have the proper pronunciation. Oh, Chris Hilkiss. Robert Clark was a big community person they meet outside the courthouse. Tell me your name on tape just so I have the proper pronunciation. Oh, Chris Hilkis. Robert Clark was a big community person and that he needs to take responsibility for what he's done. Other victims, including Peter Hamer, join the men. They're here for moral support. It's kind of a little overwhelming to see, you know, I knew more victims had come forward, you know, to have their day in court

so that they could give their statements to Bob Clark. And, you know, it's a powerful, like, it's a powerful thing to do. It's intense. Inside the courtroom, Bob Clark is brought in. Clark's hair is messy. He's wearing dark blue jeans and a wrinkled white dress shirt. And this time, he sits in the prisoner's box. Just like last time, Clark has spared the victims a trial. Clark is pleading guilty to historical crimes of gross indecency against both men. A judge gives Clark a sentence of 15 months. Most of that time will be served concurrently,

included in the prison time he's already serving for abusing eight other students. abusing eight other students. The group slowly ambles out of the courtroom following behind John Cody's wheelchair. Cigarettes are passed around. Relief hangs like smoke in the air. I feel relieved that it's done with. It's been a long journey. It's part of the healing process.

And it's something I'm going to have to live with the rest of my life, I believe. It's not of the healing process and it's something I'm going to have to live with the rest of my life, I believe. It's not going to go away. I'm just going to learn the tools to survive as I always have. Chris Hilkes is new to speaking into my microphone. He's now in his 50s. He wears a blue dress shirt and a winter coat. Hilkes looks nothing like the 40-year-old photo I found in a Bell High School yearbook. It's a minimal charge in our Canadian society. We need to look at that, I think. He needs to change. I walk over to John Cody.

It was weird. I really did. Is this supposed to be a soundbite? I'm not sure if a good... It's not a soundbite. I don't do soundbites. Because I'm not sure if I give good sound bites. He squints at me as the sun shines on his face.

I'm glad it happened, obviously, and I'm glad he took accountability for what happened. It's not the same thing as saying, yeah, I did it. But it is the same thing. He pled guilty. John Cody has the ability to turn most things in life into poetry. He's turned his pain into a song. He's now recorded it, straining his damaged vocal cords to sing the words. I'm sharpening my weapons through new found tears.

The pain is old, eyes dry for years I wanna build an armor new Impervious, stoic, impregnable to you But all my scars are mine a twisted valentine these wounds

are heaven sent a teacher to repent the sand that makes the pearl. There's an impact, and I can look back on my life and almost remember every moment where it played a factor. And I didn't even know it at the time.

See, this is why it's good to get older, because when you're young, you don't know. You know? And so I never regret aging for that reason. I wouldn't want to go back to where I'm stupid. But anyway. Are you glad it's over? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's not over. It'll never be over in a particular way. And I don't like the word victim. I think casualty might be better. I've learned a lot about myself in the last few months, and I don't think that could ever be a bad thing. I think I did as best as I could in the situation.

That's a pretty long-ass soundbite. It's okay, I'm not looking for a soundbite. The far and wide Our love will fill The great divide There was three people on the side. The Great Divide. We're at the suburban split-level home where Peter grew up. His parents still live here. They're both now in their 80s.

But Peter had mentioned that you wanted to meet, which is really nice. I've actually heard some stories about this house, so it's kind of interesting to be in it. The Hamers sit side by side in comfortable armchairs. Okay, my name is Misha Hamer. And I'm Colin Hamer, obviously, Peter's father. My producer, Kristen Nelson, is here too. This time, she holds the microphone. Why did you want to meet Julie?

Actually, it was me. I wanted to meet Julie because I was so pleased that somebody was helping Peter. We've ended up where we started, in Peter's parents' living room, the same living room where Bob Clark sat when Peter pointed a gun at his head back in 1985. We're in the living room of the house that I grew up in, the house that my parents still own since 1970. But what happened here in the summer of 1985, I don't know if I told my parents this, so I'm not 100% sure whether they're aware of it

as they sit here. Peter's mom and dad are about to hear some details about the gun story for the first time the night his teacher Bob Clark came to this house. He came in the store. Yeah yeah he came in the front door. I remember him sitting down and he and I distinctly remember him asking like you know what's up where are the kids, where are the bedrooms? Peter's mom is nodding. His dad is listening intently. I had a little bit to drink and I was angry. And I thought, okay, I'll go get the shotgun. I brought it back upstairs and I pointed it at his head.

And I threatened him and I said, my brother is going to be starting in a year and you can't do this you know I'll kill you right now now this shotgun wasn't loaded I'm not Peter's sister Nicola is here too and she was here on the night of the guns I was irritated with Peter for being a jerk and I was irritated with Clark for sticking around like a kind of idiot are you and that was it as far as I was concerned everybody was for sticking around. Like, what kind of idiot are you? And that was it, as far as I was concerned. Everybody was being stupid. It happened so long ago, but it still leaves their mom with questions.

The fact that you didn't come to me, that Nicola didn't come, yeah, to tell me what Peter had done. I kept his secrets. You kept his secrets? I kept his secrets, and you guys hadn't heard that. Did you hear that story before? Not in the detail. Not in this detail.

We were aware after. We would have been rather upset, I think, had we known he'd taken out those guns. I feel tremendous guilt for not having done something. I mean, yeah, no, I feel tremendous guilt. And I hadn't protected my brother. He's only a year younger than I am. And, like, I looked after him when he was little.

And then I utterly failed him, clearly, as a teenager, and, like, it's all of us. We've all been affected by it, right? My parents had to find this out. Like, it's not, it reverberates. It's still difficult to talk about, but all the talking has made things better. Are you proud of him?

Extremely, extremely proud. Yes, certainly am. Well, he's grown in a way. And the fact that he's, you know, he's helping others with this problem, that's a positive that has come out of this. Peter Hamer and I have spoken numerous times over the past year. He quickly got used to our regular check-ins and there being a microphone in his face every time we were having even a very casual conversation. When we started down this path, Peter was weighed down with the shame of being a survivor of abuse,

and he felt guilt for helping put a man behind bars. But now, more than a year has gone by. Yeah, it's been a huge amount of growth. So there were parts when you were investigating and we were having these conversations where I would get off the phone and feel like emotionally destroyed. You know, I went through massive bouts of depression because I'm like, oh my god, we found out more horrible, horrible things. But frankly, the more we talked, like this has been kind of the best therapy for me.

Because I never would have thought that I would have been in this position to not feel guilty. But I still struggle with, you know, in my head feeling like this is, I don't want to feel proud about it. Like I don't feel that. Okay about it. Like, I don't feel that. Okay, maybe not pride, but empowerment? I feel very empowered now. I mean, I've had conversations with people from coast to coast. I'm in contact with the other survivors of sexual violence, not just from Bob Clark, but from Tim Stanitz and Don Grenham and others across the country.

And I feel like they turn to me and they want, you know, they want a conversation. They want to understand, you know, what was my process and what happened. And so I feel a tremendous amount of responsibility that I gave myself. You know, I'm, I'm working with a, um, a university in Kitchener-Waterloo that is studying gendered sexual violence. So I'm having these conversations with young students and they're trying to learn about how it affected me. But then when they learn that, then they can maybe change the future, which is really, really the most important thing. So maybe you've answered this, but what is the biggest difference for you, you know, since the day we met in March to today? The biggest difference is, I think I have something to say now, right? And people are

listening to it, and I want them to continue to listen to it. He's become a leader, a changemaker. There are no longer tears when we talk, and the nervous energy has faded. I've only known Peter for a year, but I see a confidence in him I didn't see last year. We have to make changes. I don't want this to be a flash in the pan. I want this to be a continued conversation that people have over and over and over again. And, you know, people that are smarter and, you know, and more intelligent, no more things need to take this and continue with it. It's not just me as, you know, the guy who suffered at the hands of his music teacher in the 80s.

You know, this stuff continues today. We have to be smarter. We have to do things better. Peter Hamer guided this journey, a search for answers and accountability. It's a really good place to be now. But there was more that came with the revelations than he had anticipated.

Along the way, he learned to forgive himself. It wasn't his fault. It's not his shame. And now, it's not his secret. The band Played On is reported and hosted by me, Julie Ireton. The podcast is written by me and Kristen Nelson. Kristen is also the series producer and sound editor. Chris Oak is our story editor.

Jennifer Chevalier is our investigative producer. Cecil Rosner is director of CBC Regional Investigations. We received additional help from Dean Beebe, Josh Block, and Kathleen Goldhar. Thanks for all the support from CBC Ottawa's communications team, Rochelle James, Kate Tenenhaus, Katie Hanshorst, and Ryan Garland.

The managing editor of CBC Ottawa is Ruth Zodu. Marissa Nelson is senior managing director of CBC Ontario. If you like this podcast, please subscribe for free wherever you get your podcasts, and please help us spread the word by rating, reviewing, or simply telling a friend. Thank you so much to all the people who spoke to me, and thank you for listening. who spoke to me, and thank you for listening.

If you or someone you know has been sexually abused, community resources can help. Reach out to a trusted person, a sexual assault center, or rape crisis center in your area. If you or someone you know is at risk of suicide, there are many community resources available, including the Canadian Suicide Prevention Service or the U.S.-based National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. For information, check online. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.