Uncover - S23 E11: Testimony | "The Pit"

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

Greg's children testify against him in court. Police reveal what set the Mr. Big operation in motion, as observers consider whether the judge will accept the confession from it.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. A high-profile murder trial continues in Saskatoon. Greg Furtuck is accused of killing his wife Sherry in 2015 near Keniston. Her body has never been found. Several witnesses have already been called at the first remurder trial since it began last week. It's difficult to convey just how much information is presented in court during the first month of this long and complicated

trial. Some 40 witnesses take their turn in the witness box. There's the top cop who led the investigation into Greg, and Sherry's children who appear as witnesses against their dad. At times, the testimony can be confronting and emotional. We promised to tell you as much as we can about the trial, so we're going to do that now, taking a closer look at key testimony from the first four weeks in court, including new theories from the defense as Greg's lawyers take aim at the police and point to other suspects. I don't want her to get caught up in the legal shuffle, you know, and it be just about Sherry, the missing person or, you know, and it be just about Sherry the missing

person or, you know, Sherry the murder victim. We were talking about the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Transpose it to a southern state in the US where they execute people. Are you going to put a man to death based on that evidence? I don't think so. They're strong kids.

I think they're probably doing whatever they can to go through the process just so that, you know, they can have some justice. I'm Alicia Bridges. And I'm Kendall Latimer. And this is Episode 11 of The Pit. Lucas, Lauren and Lana Furtuck have never spoken publicly about their mum's disappearance. Understandably, they've kept the curtains drawn on their private lives. But at the trial, they're asked to tear those curtains down and put memories of their personal lives on the record, even if it means being candid about some really horrible situations. Sherry Furtuck's youngest daughter, Lana, took the stand this afternoon.

She described how her father, Greg, had been violent to Sherry and threatened her on multiple times. been violent to Sherry and threatened her on multiple times. Lauren Furtuck says she never saw her dad physically attack her mom Sherry but she saw bruises Sherry said came from alleged assaults. She says that she heard him say I'll kill you and I'll gut you like a fish. Lucas Furtuck talked about his father's indifference in the wake of Sherry's disappearance from the gravel pit near Keniston, how he didn't seem overly concerned about Sherry or Lucas and his sisters. Lucas testifies in person at the courthouse. He's the oldest sibling, he's tall with dark hair and

dark features and a few tattoos on his arms. As he walks up to the witness box, Greg stares, tracking Lucas through the room with his eyes. Greg keeps his eyes on Lucas throughout the testimony. Crown Prosecutor, Corey Bliss, tries to put Lucas at ease. We learn Lucas was in Boston for a football game right before his mom went missing. Corey asks about the teams, but quickly the questions turn back to Sherry and Greg. Lucas remembers good times with his dad, especially the times they went fishing and hunting. Like his sisters, Lucas also remembers that Sherry and Greg would fight a lot over money and Greg's drinking,

Greg would fight a lot over money and Greg's drinking and the confrontations escalated. Sometimes they became physical or scary. He remembers seeing his dad threatened to shoot Sherry between the eyes. They're strong kids. I think they're probably doing whatever they can, you know, staying as strong as they can to go through the process just so that, you know, they can have some justice, hopefully, at the end of this. Sherry's sister, Tika White, made sure she was there when Sherry's kids were testifying. I feel bad for those kids that they lived that many years of the shit that Greg put them all through, all of us through.

Tika says she's relieved that the kids are one step closer to putting all of this behind them. They don't have a mother now, and now they have to testify against their father, right? So it's got to be tough for anybody. When Sherry's two daughters testify, they appear by video. Lana is the youngest. She was 17 when her mum disappeared, but she's 23 now. Her hair is bright blonde, her makeup is flawless. She talks about the threats her father made.

Her testimony gets graphic as she repeats the words her dad used in front of them. And a warning, there's some strong language coming up. She tells the court that her dad would call Sherry an evil witch and a cunt. When she speaks to the court, she's composed. Later in the trial, we see a recording of Lana. It's from 2017 when police bring her into an interrogation with Greg. She cries as she pleads with her dad to tell the truth. And the officers in the room try to use her presence and her emotions to manipulate Greg,

maybe get him to disclose something new. It's a distressing scene, and it hints at how much this family has been through since Sherry's been gone. Lana's older sister Lauren tells the court that even after Sherry was gone, Greg would call her a snake and say the only way to get rid of a snake is to cut its head off. Lauren is the middle child with long brown hair and soft features. When she's testifying, she cries, talking about Sherry. She says they were really close, even though they weren't getting along, during the early stages of Lauren's first pregnancy. With tears streaming down her face, she says Sherry ended up spending as much time as possible with the baby.

He was Sherry's first grandson. Lauren tells the court that after Sherry disappeared, Greg wanted to see his grandson. She kept making excuses for why he couldn't come over. But Greg kept asking. So she gives him an ultimatum, saying Greg can visit his grandson if he takes a polygraph test with the police, something Greg's lawyer told him not to do. The message he sends her in response is shown in court. It says, You didn't hear what my lawyer said, you brain-dead little girl. And I'm not telling you again. You didn't give a shit about me after that bipolar witch got through with you. This will be my last text.

which got through with you, this will be my last text. Based on what you've heard so far, it might sound like Greg is just a really bad guy. We're still in the portion of the trial where the prosecutors lay out why they and the police think Greg killed Sherry, and they're calling evidence to try and prove that. It won't be too long before Greg's lawyers can make their arguments for why they say Greg is not guilty. But for now, we're essentially hearing the case from the Crown's perspective, and a lot of the Crown witnesses are saying what Greg's lawyer predicted they would. Back in March, just before the trial was supposed to start,

Greg's lawyer, Morris Bodnar, told us we'd hear testimony about Greg's bad character. And unfortunately, I think that's the attempt by the Crown, is to show, well, he's such a bad apple, therefore he must be guilty of getting rid of her. Just because he's a person that's not a nice person, that may be obnoxious, may be violent at times, etc. Doesn't mean he killed anyone. At this point in the trial, all we know about the defence is what we've heard through cross-examination. But before the trial began, Morris gave us some idea what he might focus on.

If Greg told me that it's sunny outside today, I would go to the window and check it myself. Because there are so many examples in the disclosure that he's untruthful. And his kids even say that Dad lies. Now, if that's the case, then how can I take his word for anything? I go by the evidence that's there. Because judges all too often accept the evidence off the police and don't accept the evidence of the accused.

And why don't they accept the evidence of the accused? In the courtroom, Morris looks at home. He's soft-spoken, but when he's questioning witnesses, he becomes calculated and animated. He's working with another lawyer to defend Greg, Mike Nolan. Mike is louder, more aggressive in his approach. He becomes passionate, especially when he's arguing a point to the judge. Sometimes Greg tries to get the attention of his lawyers while Crown witnesses are testifying. He whispers and motions to them. But each time, the lawyers shoot him a stern look and raise their hands at Greg as if to shush him. Greg is supposed to let his

lawyers speak for him in court. As the trial moves on, we start to hear some new theories from the defense perspective. Sometimes it's not totally clear what direction these threads will go. Other times it's more obvious, like when they suggest someone else murdered Sherry. The RCMP say they interviewed a lot of people in the early days after Sherry disappeared. And during this early phase of the investigation, just days after Sherry's last seen, Greg's name comes up multiple times. And there are two other names that emerge. The first is Sherry's younger brother, Darren Sorotsky. He was one of the last people to see Sherry.

Sherry and Darren didn't always get along. Sometimes they would fight, but they both still worked for their mum's business. The police made a note about Darren from the day after Sherry disappeared, that he was acting weird at the pit, possibly drunk. But Darren had an alibi and the police believed it. He was treating his daughter's head lice that day. Darren never spoke to us for the podcast, so we don't know any more about his memories of that day. The second name that comes up from those early days is Jeff Sagan. He's another gravel hauler from the Keniston area where Sherry worked. We spoke to Jeff back in 2019, and he told us what he remembered about the day Sherry disappeared.

Police questioned us to see if we had seen anything or heard anything. Me and Warren heard some jaking, like really loud truck jaking from the shop that day. He thought he heard someone driving too fast in a semi truck on the day that Sherry disappeared. You know when you go to slow down with the semi they jake, they make that loud noise. If somebody was going down into the valley too fast and wanted to slow up they might hit their jake brakes. It must have been calm and clear that day because it echoed up the valley pretty good. Yeah I often think about that that might have something to do with your disappearance. The defense says Jeff Sagan had a clear motive. They tell the court that Sherry beat him on a $2 million contract.

But the project manager looking after that contract testifies too. And he says there never was a two million dollar contract rather there were several smaller contracts jeff actually beat sherry on one of them but he got into a dispute with the company so sherry won the next one jeff also testifies during the trial and he says he knew sherry got the contract the second time around but he didn't really want it anyway gravel hauling wasn't his main business he was busy farming he insists he had nothing to do with Sherry's disappearance. In 2017 it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell.

over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. During those first four weeks of the trial, Greg's lawyers point to Jeff and Darren often. They cast suspicion onto these men with their questions. Did police get it wrong when they zeroed in on Greg? Did they let the real killer walk? It's an idea that Greg's lawyer, Morris Bodnar, is starting to push through his questions to police. He gets dramatic.

Morris whips out a John Grisham novel in court and he reads a quote from the book about tunnel vision. The quote says that when police embrace their own theory, they march off in the wrong direction and ignore facts to the contrary. Morris brings up this idea of tunnel vision a few times throughout the trial, but he really pushes it with one of the officers in particular, the lead investigator. Tiffany Kleimanhager spent years working on the case. We met Tiffany early on. This was her case.

She's a major character in the story. I was curious about Kendall's first impressions of her, so I asked her about it later when we talk on the phone. We have a lot of these phone calls where Kendall helps me stay up to speed because I can't be there in person. My first impressions about Tiffany Klamenheger was that I was a bit surprised by her. I'm not sure why. I just felt like she seemed very down to earth she was talking as if you would talk to a friend in the pub um she was offering up information

she would expand on answers without prompting she would talk how you and I would was saying um and like and you know and it was very bubbly at times even though the matter was very serious and just very easygoing which you don't typically see from it presented in a courtroom from more senior type officers yeah so she she differed from your stereotypical police um police officer and you know I guess what I'm thinking of is sometimes they're very formal. They use very few words, but it sounds like she was quite different to that. When Tiffany comes to testify, she brings a huge stack of notebooks with her. On the second day, she brings a coffee. It's a bit of a power move. Witnesses don't usually

bring their own refreshments into the courtroom when they testify. She has dark brown hair with highlights. She looks confident and relaxed. Sherry's mom, Julianne, had her own thoughts about Tiffany. Tiffany was the lead investigator, so she kept Julianne up to date on the case, sharing what she could, even as the investigation seemed to slow down. My head investigator says she will never give up until they get enough evidence to arrest somebody or they find Sherry's body. She is very, very good.

But yeah, there has been some progress made, I think, you know, in terms of gathering more evidence and, you know, resubmitting evidence to the labs and that kind of thing. So, yeah, there has been progress made in that respect. So yeah, there has been progress made in that respect. But in order for them to present it to the Crown prosecutors, they have to have it pretty foolproof so that it doesn't get thrown out of the court system. That's what Julianne told us in early 2018. At the time, these were the only clues we had about what might be happening with the police investigation.

But when Tiffany appears at the trial, all these years later, we find out a lot more about what was happening behind the scenes. Her testimony reveals a lot about how police investigated Sherry's disappearance and the evolution of that investigation, how police came to the conclusion that Greg killed Sherry, not the other people that Morris has suggested. She takes us right back to the beginning, and she remembers the reasons why Greg's first interview caught her attention.

We can't play you a recording of what Tiffany says in court, so I think the best way to share it is the way Kendall told it to me, when we talked on the phone after. She said reading that statement kind of made her feel like she was living in a twilight zone because what Greg had been saying was basically the very opposite of what other people had been saying. Like other people had been talking to police about the previous history of domestic violence um that Sherry had told people you know if something ever happens to me look to Greg uh that they were having problems over money that the kids some of

the kids weren't talking to him and Greg's statement was kind of like very vanilla. Like we were reconciling. We could have gotten back together. I was what was coming from Greg seemed to be very, very different from what they were hearing from other people. While Tiffany is noticing there might be holes in Greg's story, she's also thinking about other potential suspects, Jeff Sagan and Darren Sarotsky.

She said that they were never really considered suspects, but she went over what police did to firm up their alibis because their names were being mentioned. And so, like, looking at receipts, verifying with other people that could confirm where they were, checking in their alibis. The police believe Jeff and Darren, but they didn't believe Greg. So they keep building their case, gathering forensics and collecting financial reports, until October 2017. And she said by October, she had gotten kind of all the files and reviews that they were pulling in and reports about money. And at the same time, she was learning that Greg was in financial distress.

And Greg, you know, he had told the police that he had been waiting for Sherry to call him about coming back to work on Tuesday. He was saying that, oh, he didn't know if they had finished up, she would still need him. But Tiffany was talking about Dylan, Sherry's other employee, who had been told on Friday that the job's wrapped up. Sherry would take it from here. She no longer needed his help. The season was coming to a close. It was about to get colder. And then she went on and was saying, well, then we go into the forensics and we have Sherry's blood in the hatch of Greg's truck.

There's the cell phone pinging at the pit. And Tiffany says all of this gave police reasonable grounds for the 2017 arrest. But remember that in the end, it wasn't enough to press charges. Tiffany says the idea of using the Mr Big technique had come to her early on. Mr Big is the police tactic where undercover officers pose as criminals and befriend their suspect to try to get a confession. But it's not until after the 2017

arrest that she starts to really consider it. It's percolating in her mind. And a few months later, she gets a call from Lana, who says Greg has damaged her rental car with a baseball bat. This is something Julianne told us about back in 2018. Lana was so upset when she phoned me. She said, Grandma, you'll never guess what happened. And she was crying so hard I couldn't hardly understand her. She said, Dad was here and he was knocking on the door. I thought it was going to break down and and

she said I wouldn't let him in and I said no and don't you ever let him in and and she said when he left he broke the window because she heard something bang or smash or whatever she heard and so when he was gone she went out and looked sure enough the window was broken so. and so when he was gone she went out and looked. Sure enough, the window was broken. At the time, we didn't know what happened to Lana was the catalyst for the Mr Big Sting against Greg. Back in court, Kendall hears what happened next. Tiffany apparently took this information to her supervisors

and said, like, this behaviour is pretty erratic, it's violent. I think we should seriously consider this. So I think around June 2018 was when the approach was really like given the green light. But it's not as simple as people in Saskatchewan just deciding to do it. She made it sound like they had to escalate it through various levels of different rankings in the local RCMP and then send it off to Ottawa and then they would send it back. So Tiffany gets approval for the Mr. Big operation and she puts the case in the hands of the undercover police. When it's time for the defense to question Tiffany, Morris Bodner takes the lead. They've both been involved with this case for about the same length

of time. They joke with each other on this case for about the same length of time. They joke with each other on breaks, but the back and forth seems filled with tension. This continues as Tiffany testifies. At times, the questions and remarks seem personal. Morris hammers on the point of tunnel vision and police incompetence as he tries to poke holes in the Crown's timeline. He says there were people who saw Sherry driving after she was supposed to be dead. Morris even suggests that Sherry's old friends. She knew Greg and Sherry, so we're hoping to catch up with her and see how she's doing. So we're hoping to catch up with her and see how she's doing.

I know Heather indicated or told us that she had wanted to come to the trial, but she's been swamped with work, so I'm going to her. It's a warm September day. Hi, Heather. Heather invites me to sit on her back deck near the garden filled with tomatoes, sunflowers, and corn. Oh, you're welcome. Well, she's very charismatic and, you know, she knew how to insult you and make you laugh at the same time.

She'll occasionally pause and puff on her vape as she thinks about her memories with Sherry. She was one of the strongest people I've ever met. And she had this amazing sense of humor. She was compassionate. She just gave her all to everything she did. She loved to work hard and she loved to play hard. Heather met Sherry through Greg. She was dating a man who worked with him.

The couples got together and the two women hit it off. They stayed close, even as life got in the way. It's important to Heather that people see Sherry for who she was, not what happened to her. I don't want her to get caught up in the legal shuffle and it be just about Sherry the missing person or, you know, Sherry the murder victim. I just want it to be about sherry she deserves that she's wiping away tears beneath her sunglasses in one moment and laughing deeply the next the four of us went to whitefish skiing and sherry had never skied before it was a green run and I remember her looking down from the top and going,

there's moguls on that hill. So anyway, I said, let's go. So I headed down the hill and for some reason I stopped and I turned around and there was Sherry plowing down on her face. There was snow up over her face and her head. She's careening down this hill on her face. There was snow up over her face and her head. She's careening down this hill on her face. Well, honest to God, we were both laughing so hard. Oh my word, it was hilarious. Heather holds on to those great memories, but she also remembers the times where she worried about Sherry. Sherry would talk to Heather about Greg. At the time you you kind of go oh Sherry like you know do you really think like I don't know if he would go that far and she's like Heather he absolutely would go that far and then I said to her well why aren't you

doing something about it like why are you still living in that house? Why don't you get away where he doesn't know where you are? Like, can't you take steps to do something? But she was just that kind of person that she didn't run from anything. Sherry and Greg separated in 2011. Greg moved in with a friend after he was charged with assaulting Sherry. Sherry filed for divorce not long after that, but they never legally split. At the trial, we learned that Sherry had conditions she wanted Greg to meet. She laid out what she believed was a fair way to split up their shared assets. And she also wanted Greg to pay years of outstanding child support. Sherry tried to settle with Greg outside of court, but they never settled. with Greg outside of court, but they never settled. At the trial, Greg's lawyers try to push the idea that Greg and Sherry were actually reconciling around the time she disappeared. The Crown

witnesses don't agree with that, and neither does Heather. I never, ever, ever heard that from Sherry. Never. There was never. I mean, I think at one point early, early in the separation, you know, I would talk to her and say, is there any possibility that, you know, this can be worked out? Like, can you and Greg find common ground? You know, maybe then she was like, I don't know, like maybe, like it would be best for the kids. But as things went along, it was quite clear to me that

that wasn't going to happen. As the trial continues the evidence is less about Sherry and more about Greg and soon it will be time for the court to consider the undercover police operation. This makes Heather uneasy. What happens now if that is not admissible? Is there enough evidence for or against? And that's concerning because everybody needs closure. Everybody at this point wants closure. And if the judge rules it inadmissible, then what? It's all the questions and all the worries and the wondering,

where does this go from here? We came across a case in Canada where a judge did throw out evidence from a Mr Big Sting, including the confession made by the suspect, a guy named Ken Dauphiné. So we got in touch with the lawyer who represented him. My name is Balfour Durr. Balfour is spelled B-A-L-F-O-U-R. The last name is Durr. I am a criminal defense attorney in Calgary, Alberta. Mr. Dauphiné was charged

with the murder of his wife. And it was a cold case that was brought back to life by way of a Mr. Big operation. And it had been dormant for a long number of years. Balfour's client was accused of murdering his wife, Terryann, in 2002, and he confessed during the sting. But the judge ruled that the confession shouldn't be admitted. So the murder charge against Dauphiné was stayed, and he walked free. The number of cases in Canada that I'm aware of that excluded Mr Big operations are very few, like no more than a handful. And by that I mean five, maybe less. In Balfour's case, the judge ruled that the police went too far.

They used Dauphiné's teenage children to try to pressure him into a confession. So the judges thought that that's crossed the line as to from fair game to offside. Balfour says his client's confession also wasn't considered reliable because his story changed multiple times and he seemed to be changing it to please the crime boss. A decision like I got in Mr Goffney's case, I don't know that that will slow the use of Mr. Big by the police, but it certainly should give them pause when they're dreaming up new and novel ways to try to convince people to give a confession to Mr. Big, that they now know that they can go offside, you know, because they've gone so long

with all these cases being admitted. And each case, I'm sure they push the envelope a little farther, a little farther, a little farther. And this one is, at least the line has been drawn. For the Furtuck case, Balfour thinks the forensic evidence is thin. He thinks Greg could walk if the judge doesn't accept the Mr. Big confession. And the fact that the man was at the gravel pit at some time during the day, I can't even see that that would be close enough, not even in the ballpark, to get a conviction.

See, the droplet of blood, the thing about blood and DNA is you cannot date it. And it could have been innocently there if she's at the gravel pit working there and he comes and goes from there. Balfour says that.22 caliber bullets are extremely common. How do they know it wasn't three weeks earlier some guys, some young guys were out shooting at pop cans or shooting at gophers or something? Like I get why people would be suspicious about that and why, you know, those are little pieces of evidence. But we are talking about the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

You would have to be sure that you're going to put this man in jail for the rest of his life. You know, you just need to just transpose this case, that amount of evidence, transpose it to a southern state in the U.S. where they execute people. Are you going to put a man to death based on that evidence? I don't think so. I don't think it comes close to proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Of course, no two Mr. Big cases are the same. And the operation used to get Greg has its own intricate narrative.

And it's up to Justice Richard Daniluk to sort through that. With the Mr Big stings, there are big concerns about prejudice against the target or abuse of process by police. Because of a Supreme Court ruling, there are a few things that Justice Daniluk will have to consider, including the scope and length of the sting. Was Greg threatened or offered incentives to participate? Greg Furtuck's personal characteristics are a factor too. Did he have any mental or physical disadvantages? Did the police manipulate him unfairly? The judge has to hear all of the Mr. Big evidence first before he can decide. As the court begins to scrutinize the operation, Sherry's family is grateful for it, including Sherry's sister, Michelle Kish. You know what, I have the utmost respect for these undercover

officers, well actually for the whole operation in itself all the you know I all the police officers of course that have been involved in this in the trial and the search and everything but specifically them it's unbelievable what they have to do to try to understand this double life kind of that they lead and for so many months and to think you know they they have families they have a life or and we i and i really appreciate that that they would do this for our sister on the next episode of the pit we'll tell you how the elaborate mr big sting unfolded costing the rcmp almost000. We'll hear how the police officers inched their way into every corner of Greg's life and took him across the country to business deals and strip clubs. How they pulled him deep into a world of sophisticated crime.

Stolen diamonds, fake passports and high-stakes poker games. stolen diamonds, fake passports, and high-stakes poker games. You've been arrested for murder contrary to 235. I didn't murder anybody. I told them that they're going to try to do a Mr. Big on him. And when I talked to him more recently, I said, I told you not to talk to them. The Pit is a CBC investigative podcast. This episode was co-written and produced by Kendall Latimer and me, Alicia Bridges. Our senior producer is Corrine Larson. We mixed this episode together. Editorial guidance came from Paul Dornstader and David Hutton. If you've been enjoying the podcast, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or just tell your friends. And please follow The Pit to get alerts when new episodes are released. You can also contact us directly by emailing the go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.