Uncover - S23 E15: Voir Dire | "The Pit"

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

The judge finally rules on what evidence he’ll consider at the trial. The Crown and Greg must decide how to proceed. 

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. In Saskatoon, a major decision in the Greg Furtuck murder trial is expected today. Furtuck is charged with first-degree murder of Sherry Furtuck. He has been on trial since September of 2021. Today, the judge is expected to rule on whether to admit Furtuck's murder confession. Furtuck told undercover police, posing as criminals, that he killed his... This ruling from the judge has been a long time coming.

So many delays. But now the wait is over. Justice Richard Daniluk can finally share his decision on whether the evidence from the undercover sting is in or out. If he allows it, the trial carries on. If the judge rejects it, the Crown's case against Gregg becomes incredibly thin. The evidence that was called and the law that has to be applied to it is an important area and obviously a significant test the Crown has to meet. The question he seems to keep coming back to repeatedly is, did Greg Furtack ever have a reason to lie about murdering his wife Sherry? Greg will always deny things, but the fact that he did admit to the undercover officers of what he did, I truly believe everything that he said he did. Everything just adds up. Too many other things add up. This is just a minor thing that I think he's just grasping at, trying to find a way

out. I'm Kendall Latimer, and King's Bench in Saskatoon. It's the last day of summer in 2023, a little more than two years since Greg Furtack's murder trial began. And of course, that's why I'm back here, just moments away from learning what evidence, if if any the judge will accept into the trial. As I head to the courthouse I see my colleague Dan Sekreski. He's there notebook in hand. I feel so much for you know in some respects Mr. Furtuck for also for Sherry's family that this this is finally going to be moving forward. I sit beside

him. I'm feeling skeptical. This decision has been called off many times before. It's just a general feeling of surrealism that this is the actual day after all these years. I think the other interesting thing is, you know, Justice Daniluk is in the middle of another Mr. Big trial. So he's going to be taking a break from the other Mr. Big trial to come into this to give his ruling.

And in recent years, he's emerged as the Mr. Big Sting judge. He will give, I think, what would be described as the bullet points of the judgment, which will be long and complex, befitting the material, distribute copies,

and then go back to his other trial. We head inside. The courtroom is packed. The room is humming with anticipation. The lawyers are there at the front of the room. I see the Crown prosecutors, Corey Bliss and Carla Dewar. And then there's Greg, sitting at the other end of the table, wearing his orange jail shirt. He's about to turn 70. His white hair is longer and he looks worn out. The judge takes his place at the front of the room. He tells us the decision is 161 pages, so he'll share a brief summary now and we can read the rest later. This is not about finding Greg guilty or not guilty. This is

about what evidence the judge will allow into the trial. And then we hear it. All of the evidence gathered by the undercover officers will be admissible at the trial, including Greg's confession. This is good news for the Crown and it means the trial will continue. Outside, we gather on the courthouse steps. Crown Prosecutor Carla Dewar is taking questions. The Crown is obviously happy about the decision that was made today. The evidence that was called and the law that has to be applied to it is an important area and obviously a significant test the Crown has to meet. So we are happy with the results and we look forward to the continuation of the

trial. I certainly hope this is what this will get things back on track. The family of Ms. Furtuck has been waiting for obviously a substantive period of time for matters to get to where we are even today so I think everyone's very happy that we finally have concluded this portion of things. And we can hopefully, yes, hopefully the next part of the trial will not take nearly as long and we can get things back on track. The court sends out copies of the written decision. And like the prosecutors, I start at page one, working my way through it. In this case, the judge needs to consider many factors. Did the police follow the rules? Was Greg a fair target? And is Greg's story of killing Sherry reliable?

The judge also has to consider, from every angle, whether Greg had a reason to make up a confession. You know, the big question always around Mr. Big Stings is whether they're reliable, fair, and accurate. Dan and I have debated for years how the Mr. Big ruling would shake out. Now that we have those details, we go through it together. One of the things that was so interesting about Justice Daniluk's approach is the question he seems to keep coming back to repeatedly is,

did Greg Furtack ever have a reason to lie about murdering his wife Sherry? Or was he just so afraid of the undercover cops? And did they threaten or scare him? That's what we've heard over and over and over and over again. Greg Furtack says he lied about killing Sherry because he was afraid of the undercover police. And we'll talk a little bit later about what the judge said about that. But before we get there, I think we just need to set the scene of the sting, just like Justice Daniluk did in his ruling, because it really was just unusual in every single way. Well, starting with the length. Yes. It went for 10 months. And Daniluk has done a

number of Mr. Biggs as well. He said it was ultimately okay because the case was just so complex and strange. Among other things, they had no body. Sherry Furtuck has never been found. And for the bulk of the Mr. Biggs sting, there was no murder weapon. And then partway through, of course, Greg Furtuck suffers this major head injury and was in the hospital for weeks. I remember how that threw us. Did the head injury advance the sting or did it blow it up? Let's talk about it.

Let's talk about this expensive, lengthy, elaborate sting. We know it began with a contest at the liquor store. Greg Furtuck easily took the bait and he was hooked. He entered a bar contest and he didn't win first prize. Second place. It's not Hawaii, but nor is it just steak knives. Right. It's a trip to Canmore with my girlfriend. And the whole sting revolved around this blue collar organization that he was introduced to through the contest. He was hired on as a casual worker to do jobs involving cars, and that's getting them, moving them. Greg's welcomed into this crew,

and they start going out, and the sting is underway. They're going to restaurants and pubs, and it's on. Greg Furtack seems to really get into it when he's let on this little secret. And the secret, of course, in this case was that not everything that this group did was legal. No. And so he's slowly brought into the criminal side of things. He learns the scope of the organization. They're transporting some sort of illegal goods. But not only that, they've got these connections with crooked cops and corrupt border guards and there's loan sharking. And he gets to see this big money

that they're dealing with. They've got guys that take care of things. They can manipulate DNA evidence. There's even a cleanup guy. Justice Daniluk had to assess these things. You know, the idea that is Greg agreeing to go along this stuff because he's intimidated or threatened indirectly or directly. And he decided that it just wasn't the case here. You know, that there was plenty of times during this sting when Furtuck probably should have faced or at least witnessed violent consequences for people doing things in this criminal organization. And he just didn't act like somebody who was scared or being coerced or being pushed. And you're thinking, at what point did you not get suspicious about this gang? You know, like they would introduce these scenarios where you had a character who owed the gang a lot of money.

So they took his car away when he didn't pay it back. But then when he did pay, they gave him his car back. You had another guy who lied and was kicked out, but then he admitted to the lying, so they let him back. So it seemed like the only real consequence for people who didn't follow the rules in this gang was they got a stern talking to. We're not going to cut off your toe, but you can't sit with us anymore. I mean, I don't know why I'm laughing because it's so manipulative and so effective. Justice Daniluk wrote in this judgment that the nature of what happens in stings has been toned down so much, it's hard to believe

that the targets even fall for it ever. But they do all the time. But they do all the time. And he said it boggles the mind how people just willingly accept the notion that there is an all-powerful criminal syndicate which can fix any problem with hitmen, cleaners, criminal masterminds on call. And then this organization just deals with betrayal by saying, get out of here, buddy. Greg Furtek tells us he made up this story because he was afraid. But based on the evidence before the court, that's just not a very believable story. And I guess, you know, the other thing

that Justice Daniluk has to consider is if it's not fear motivated, maybe he's just lying because he's greedy. He wants money. So he had to consider, did Greg make up this confession because he just wanted to keep the cash train going. But still, when Justice Daniluk did the math, he figured Greg was basically making minimum wage over the course of the 10 months. Greg, at this point, he was retired, so not working,

but he had this solid pension from three decades at the railway. He was living modestly, sharing a home with his girlfriend Doris in a core neighborhood. And throughout the entire sting, like he's spending money freely. He's paying for his own liquor, his own clothes. He's buying gifts for his new buddies. There was one time they were at a strip club and he gave a worker 500 bucks, apparently thinking she would then give him sexual favors. Which she obviously did not. Much to Greg's disappointment, we heard. thinking she would then give him sexual favors. Which she obviously did not.

Much to Greg's disappointment, we heard. So he was just out $500 and that was his own cash to spend. And that was just one of many examples showing that, you know, he had money. So Justice Danilek, you know, also addressed an issue that we heard a lot about at the trial. And that's Greg did have money issues with Sherry. Right. about at the trial, and that's Greg did have money issues with Sherry, you know, when they were pre-Mr. Big talking about possible motives for what had happened. You know, he hadn't been paying her child support. They had issues with a big loan that he had taken out. And there was a huge issue with property division. We also know, though, that these issues, the family financial

issues anyways, were resolved before the sting and after Sherry disappeared. So those were two major concerns scratched off, I guess, the Mr. Big checklist. The judge found that Greg didn't seem threatened into confessing, nor was he desperate for cash. Was it the emotional or social connections? Was there incentives there? Justice Staniluk kind of found the opposite. And he felt like Greg Vertak was exactly where he wanted to be socially. He spent time alone when he wanted to, but he had his relationship with his girlfriend, Doris. He had friends, family members, a home, a vehicle, a dog. He wasn't down and out on the streets.

He wasn't some loner incapable of interacting with others. And his relationships weren't in jeopardy. His relationship remained strong with Doris, even when he had a girlfriend on the side. But beyond all of that, you know, the evidence shows that Greg was an independent man. He wasn't a follower. He wasn't blindly obeying the directions or wishes of others. Justice Daniluk is making these comments because he's trying to satisfy the requirements of the Mr. Big, the thresholds.

So he talks about how Greg readily asserted his free will and didn't bend his behavior to be just like the undercover cops. He asked to work for them. They set the table, for sure. But he's the one who made the overture. He didn't have to work on the criminal side of the organization. He had money. He just liked it.

It was the sexier, more fun side. And he embraced it. You know, Justice Daniluk just determined that Greg Furtuck was not a vulnerable or suggestible person whose will was – he was just beat down by these powerful personalities. During the crime boss confession, the crime boss asks Greg where he sees himself five years from now. And Greg tells him, if my health is still good, I like doing this. It keeps me feeling young. If my health is still good, I like doing this. It keeps me feeling young. Greg stayed with the organization because he liked the work and he saw a future for himself there. Sure.

And I think that comes through in Justice Daniluk's sort of final take. And that's that he found from the evidence as a whole that there was a relationship of trust and respect. Yeah. Even friendship. Yeah. Between Greg and some of the officers. And Greg didn't change his behavior to curry that sort of favor. So according to the evidence, he wasn't socially stunted or completely uneducated.

And he wasn't tempted so badly by the prospect of friendship or money that he made up a story of murder just to stay in with his buddies or because he was so scared that that was his only way out. One area of vulnerability that the judge did dwell on though or did take a close look at was the alcohol addiction. Greg drank a lot. Justice Daniluk pointed out that this was something police were mindful of from the beginning but Greg's drinking was escalating and he was drinking alone. Like he was showing up to scenarios and events under the influence. It honestly just kept getting worse until Greg was outside of business and he slipped and cranked

his head on the ground. And Justice Daniluk wrote that during his assessment of Greg Vertuck's mental and emotional state throughout the sting, the only thing that really caused him to take pause was this, this head injury. it's, you know, probably a testament to the effectiveness of the sting at this point. And in terms of how much the cops had fooled Greg and Doris, that she doesn't call his brother. Greg has family. She calls his buddies. So then, you know, you have two of the undercover cops go to the home and they see how he's doing. They're stunned. This guy's dying on the floor. You know, they show up. Greg is saying there's no way he wants to go to the hospital. He's saying, if you do me that, I'm leaving you guys. In keeping with the whole weirdness of the whole scenario, that was a credible threat because they wanted Greg in their life so badly that they would do whatever they're going to do. But in this case, the police made the decision that went beyond the sting. The police made the decision that went beyond the sting.

And it's a good thing, I guess, for them that they did and for Greg because Greg was really messed up. He was hurt. He was in the hospital for weeks. He had bleeding on the brain. He had clotting issues. He had memory issues. He had other physical complications. And when Greg came around, I think he appreciated what they had done. And then that dovetailed quite nicely into the continuation of the sting because suddenly they became the concerned friends who stayed with him during his time of recovery. And that came out in the voir dire decision that it was legit. Like they put everything on hold. They didn't pump him for information when they had him in a vulnerable state. They did visit and they brought him food. They acted like friends. Justice Daniluk said that it was these actions of care and empathy during the sting

and the fact that they got him help when he said he wouldn't speak to them again if they did. got him help when he said he wouldn't speak to them again if they did. That actually goes a long way towards showing that there wasn't an abusive process. I think what's fascinating as we worked it through is that this health scare actually made Greg a better candidate for the sting. You had a Greg Furtuck who was happier and healthier as he recovered. He was practically sober. Yes. And Justice Daniluk wrote that he found he has absolutely no medical evidence before him to suggest that some catastrophic or highly serious or irreversible brain damage occurred, such that Greg Furtuck was in a state of health that he shouldn't be subject to the ongoing sting.

Nothing that was before the court convinced Justice Daniluk that Greg Furtek was, that the incapacity was anything but temporary. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. And so all of those complications set aside, we should talk about what Greg said about Sherry during the sting. Because ultimately that was the intent of this operation was finding out whether or not Greg Furtuck played a role in Sherry Furtuck's disappearance. And that's also what the police keep coming back to. And it's, I mean, you can take it with a grain of salt. They say, you know, this sting is not to find Greg Furtuck guilty of killing Sherry Furtuck. The sting is to find out what happened to Sherry. Slim but critical distinction. Justice Staniluk, he looked at everything Greg Furtick said and found that Greg spoke about Sherry multiple times before he was ever in the room with the crime boss. Now,

at the time of the sting, this is three or four years after the disappearance, he never had to bring her up, but he did often. And again, all these statements, they were not prompted. They were not solicited. And, you know, all that being said, the casual unsolicited, let's not forget what happened in that hotel room. You know, whenever we get too far into the weeds on was Greg Furtuck tricked or was he unprompted, this guy acted out shooting his wife using a stick as the rifle. The judge, Justice Daniluk, had to look at this. Did this have the air of being something made up? Again, when Justice Daniluk talked about the big reveal, he noted that Greg instantly fastened on to that being the topic of conversation. Like that was important. And the topic being Greg Furtuck murdering Sherry.

Justice Daniluk just went through it, you know, box by box. He found the way in which the Mr. Big interview was conducted was proper. You know, Furtuck was sober. The boss was asking open-ended questions, even suggested Greg was taking credit for the murder. He gave him the out, something that falsely taking credit for the murder, which Greg denied. And he added that he wished he hadn't done it. You could assume if Greg Furtuck was making it all up on the spot, perhaps he would have contradicted himself or told a slightly different story.

But as Justice Daniluk says, he did not. He stayed consistent. He didn't just give a consistent narrative to the crime boss. He repeated all of these salient details to the cleaner and the details that he added, as they say in court, were all confirmatory. They just added the color and just gave it that ring of truth. You know, there's just the confirmatory evidence, all the confirmatory evidence that Justice Daniluk had to consider. And this is the evidence that's used to show the reliability of Greg Furtuck's statements about these alleged crimes. And then there's, you know, the one key element, and that's the rifle. Justice Daniluk launched into this long list of factors that strengthened the gun as a piece of confirmatory

evidence. And that's important, at the risk of saying the obvious, when you don't have a body. He went through how it was found independently, how it was found in the general vicinity described by Greg. The Crown's firearms expert, Mr. Chan, said in his expert opinion that the rifle left the two shells found where Sherry disappeared, exactly where Gregg told Mr. Big the murder happened in the pit. There's an elegance to the way the tumblers all start coming together. There's.22 caliber ammunition found at Gregg's home, but no.22 gun was found. Really, the only flaw that the judge found with the gun was that it wasn't at the exact location of what Greg described to the crime boss.

And so that's an issue that he'll address in his final decision. Now that the Mr. Big evidence is in, now it's going to be a test of whether the Crown has established the guilt of Mr. Furtuck Beyond a reasonable doubt For the most part, the voir dire ruling focuses on police investigations. But the judge also writes about Sherry. Because after all, this trial is about searching for the truth about what happened to Sherry at the gravel pit on that December day. The judge talks about how Sherry was healthy and strong. She was responsible and dedicated to her work. The judge calls her a tough customer. She stood behind her word and expected people to do the same.

She did not put up with very much nonsense. He says Sherry was a devoted daughter and a protective mother, a woman making plans for the future. The judge also points out the troubles between Sherry and Greg, the domestic abuse and the arguments over money. He talks about how the tensions between them were escalating right before Sherry vanished. When the judge makes his ruling, Sherry's sister is there to hear it. Tika White says she's relieved but not surprised. I was actually quite confident that the judge was going to make the right decision and he did. So it was a good day in court. Today is an important day for Sherry's family and so is tomorrow.

So actually tomorrow would be Sherry's 59th birthday. I guess today is a good day maybe for that. Sherry was 51 years old when she was last seen and after eight years her family still doesn't have closure. For Tika this decision is a long-awaited step toward that. Greg will always deny things. He's been a pathological liar his entire life but the fact that he did admit to the undercover officers of what he did. I truly believe everything that he said he did. He fully did those things. And I go back to the day that Mom told me Sherry was missing. I've reiterated these words many times, and I will say it again. I knew that she wasn't missing.

I will say it again, I knew that she wasn't missing. I knew that Greg had killed her because he had said many times to Mom that that's what he should have done. And on December 7, 2015, he followed through. Now he's facing the consequences of that. While the undercover evidence is in, the judge has rejected some other parts of the investigation that were gathered before the Mr. Big Sting. An interview with Greg, just days after Sherry vanished, is out. Greg was too drunk to participate, and the police should have stopped the interview.

The judge also tossed out some parts of an interrogation from 2017 when police grilled Greg for hours pushing him for answers about Sherry. From the judge's perspective most of the interview was okay but he is rejecting one portion when police used Lana, Greg's youngest daughter, to try and get a confession. They bring her into the room. She talks to her dad saying things like, you'd rather sit in a cell for the rest of your life than tell the truth right now? The judge says Greg wasn't obligated to say anything, but this made it sound like he had to or he'd spend his life in prison.

And police didn't address this at that moment. So that part of the interrogation was struck. But beyond this, almost all of the Crown's evidence will be considered. A Saskatoon judge says he will admit a videotaped confession from an accused killer, Greg Furtuck, as evidence at his murder trial. This means the judge can consider the confession when it comes time to decide the verdict. When court resumes, the Crown says its case is closed. Now it's time for the defense. That means it's Greg's turn because he's still acting as his own lawyer. In Canada, people on trial are presumed innocent, so

they don't have to testify in court. The defense doesn't even have to call witnesses. Greg can choose to say and do nothing. But the judge reminds him, if he wants to give his own personal evidence at the trial, he has to testify under oath. In court, Greg doesn't say if he plans to testify, but he tells the judge that he plans to call a witness, a different gun expert. He's got a guy in mind to cast out on the Crown's evidence. Later, I speak with Michelle Kish, another one of Sherry's sisters,

and we talk about Greg's plan. To her, it seems like he's missing the bigger picture. They again they didn't do anything wrong so I don't know what what he could come up with other than this gun evidence that he thinks he knows or has and really that's a small part of, like, in my mind, it's sort of a small part in the whole, you know, story that he told in his confession. So everything just adds up. Too many other things add up. And this is just a minor thing that I think he's just grasping at, trying to find a way out.

Thank God it's finally coming to an end. The delay and the ongoing waiting and just wondering. It's just a huge relief that this is finally coming to an end and I guess we can try to move on. It's not long before another update comes from court. There's a quick meeting about the trial. Dan was there, and I catch up with him after. Okay, so the intent of this morning was they have to decide what the next stage of the trial is going to be.

Because we're into the trial proper. He tells me Greg is still fixated on the gun and those shells found at the gravel pit. He wants to call his firearms expert. It's a fellow named Daryl Barr who runs the forensic lab for the Calgary Police Service. He's got a company called like Bulletproof Forensics. So he's a gun guy and very credible. What became immediately apparent though was the follow-up was that Mr. Barr is not available until at least January to start considering the material. 2024? Yes 2024. We were all checking our phones in court. The trial did start in 2021 so we're into coming up

to three or four years into the trial but that's not all of it the other elements were greg also indicated he wants to probably recall the other firearms expert again again to cross-examine him on the findings of his expert the other final card is that greg himself hasn't decided whether he will testify What this all shakes out as meaning is that they are looking at probably May. With Justice Daniluk, as he sort of turned ashen on the bench when these dates become apparent, just said, I am not going to be sitting here in October of 2024 on this trial. This is going to be wrapped up one way or the other. And the other thing too

was Mr. Furtuck again reiterated how he's now been in a six by eight cell for 1500 days. And Justice Daniluk said, put in an application for an interim review. So what was the mood like in the courtroom as it became clear this would drag on well into 2024? I think everybody in the courtroom was honestly taken aback when we started seriously talking about moving well into 2024. I think there was maybe a secret hope that between the release of the voir dire decision and today, both sides would just rest their cases. But Greg still has gas in the tank. And it's his life. I mean, as we've observed in the past, he has nothing but time. And the other thing that sort of came up and got headed off at the pass was Greg wanted to talk to

Justice Daniluk about the errors and omissions in his voir dire ruling. And Justice Daniluk said save that for the Court of Appeal. After all the delays, the end is near. But first, we hear from the defense, from Greg. He gets to present his case in February 2024, about eight years after he was first suspected of killing Sherry. Greg will call witnesses and he might even testify. If he does, the prosecutors have promised a lengthy cross-examination. And no matter what happens, we'll be back with all of the details. The Pit is a CBC Investigated podcast. This episode was written and edited by me, Kendall Latimer.

Dan Sikreski is a reporter at CBC Saskatoon. Corrine Larson is our senior producer. Editorial guidance came from Paul Dornstouter. We want to extend a big thank you to Alicia Bridges, who's been with this podcast since the beginning. This is a message to say goodbye and thank you for caring about Sherry Furtuck's story. This podcast was a huge part of my life for a long time. And the people who spoke to us didn't have to. They didn't have to share their stories.

They didn't have to trust us. And they did. And I'm so grateful for that. This story is still so important to me and I hope that Sherry Furtuck's family can finally find the answers they're looking for. I've been back in Australia for three years now so it seems like a good time for me to step away. Kendall is closest to the story now and has been for a while, and I'm so pleased to leave it in the hands of someone I trust. Thank you for caring about what happened to Sherry Furtuck and for listening to The Pit.

If you like what you hear, please tell a friend. You can get in touch with us by email, thepit at cbc.ca.