Uncover - S24 E4: Impact Statement | "Hunting Warhead"

Episode Date: February 3, 2024

Jenn was home alone with her children when she received a call from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. They needed to talk to her as soon as possible. It was about her relative, Ben Faulkner. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/1.5346693

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. The following episode contains difficult subject matter. Listener discretion is advised. If you want to learn more about how to prevent child sexual abuse, go to cbc.ca slash hunting warhead help. So what are we doing? We're going to go meet a close relative of Ben Faulkner.

She's probably our best insight into what Ben's really like as a human being. And we're going to hear her story. Hi, how are you? Nice to meet you. Thanks for having us. Come on in, guys. Thank you. Yeah, that was a beautiful spot.

Thank you. It's really nice. So, where are you most comfortable? I'll just sit here. You're in control here. So, as long as you know that, and if you need to stop, if you need to take a break. And I think, maybe most importantly before we get going, we've talked about this before. We're not using your name, and we're not talking about actually the state we're in.

We agreed to call her Jen. She lives in the United States. So I think it's bizarre, too, because this is something that I think maybe four close friends know, and then the family. This isn't something that you, like, widely advertise and just kind of, this has happened to us.

So it's a little surreal to be talking about it so openly, especially with people who know as many details about how far this went. I guess the natural question is like, why do you feel compelled to talk about the most intimate details of the worst part of your life? Like, why is it important to you? I've thought about that a lot.

It's difficult, but it's something that I felt, if I don't do this, I'm really going to regret it. Like, it's the truth. You've got to speak your truth. It kind of helps you take power of it, in a way. You feel less victimized, I guess. Do you want to read a paragraph or two of this thing? Sure, yeah. October the 7th, 2016 will forever be the worst day of my life.

We'd been contacted by and met with agents from Homeland Security who informed us that someone whom I'd considered very close had recently been arrested for something. My family was shattered. My life would never be the same. This, unfortunately, was only the beginning of the nightmare. I'm Damon Fairless, and this is Hunting Warhead. is hunting warhead. Yeah, I just want to hear about your relationship with Ben when you were a young child and he was newborn. What was it like to have a new member of your family?

I was right at that age, six or seven years old, where I just thought babies were fantastic and adorable, and I just wanted to play with him. So we saw him, I guess, not too long after he was born, and then the next time I saw him, he's probably a little bit more of a toddler, and playing with him like a toddler, you know, that was about it,

because then my family moved way far south, and we really didn't go back up. So we really didn't have a lot of communication there. So really all we got was the Christmas card updates. Ben's doing great in the band. Ben is playing trumpet. Ben is a star swimmer. And then that progressed to Ben teaching swimming. Ben is a star swimmer and then that progressed to Ben teaching swimming Ben is a lifeguard so it's just sort of like these yearly updates and just those really superficial catch-ups

once a year it really wasn't until he was 18 that I really connected with him again connected with him again. My husband and I were about to get engaged. I wanted to take the new guy home and hadn't seen Ben in quite a while. So we really reconnected on that trip because everybody was staying in my grandmother's house. And I think that's when I picked up on like just the self-care habits or lack thereof. He'd probably wear the same outfit

all week long if nobody noticed. He didn't clean himself. His hair was pretty gross. And I know that because I'm a licensed cosmetologist. I would comb his hair and check his scalp and cut all the gross. I mean, you could tell that from the why he wasn't showering because the chlorine was affecting his hair chemically. The texture of his hair was just almost like somebody who's overly bleached their hair because you're supposed to shower the chlorine out of your hair. And I also thought that was a little weird. He was permitted to live this solidary life in the dark basement with these weird hours. Like what kind of hours?

We'd be up in the daytime doing things, having breakfast. Well, is Ben going to come up for breakfast? Oh no, he usually sleeps until one, two o'clock in the afternoon. And I thought, wow, his parents are so cool because my parents would never let me stay up until 4 a.m. and sleep until, there's no way. So I thought, oh, okay, he's just young. He wasn't really interested in girls, but I also knew a lot of guys who were computer nerds just like him. So I was familiar with that sort of personality and just sort of blew it off.

It was just this, that's how he was. He was just an odd dude. Faulkner struck Jen as someone who needed to leave the basement and explore the world. Faulkner struck Jen as someone who needed to leave the basement and explore the world. My husband and I were kind of like, oh my gosh, like, he's going to go off to school, maybe come down to the U.S. So we kind of threw that out there. Hey, if you ever want to come down, we might be able to help you get an internship or a visa to work somewhere and maybe go to school or just expand your horizons out of northern Ontario. So long story short, eventually he came down. Your husband got him a job? Yes, he got a job in IT at my husband's company.

He lived with us for a couple of months. And that's when I took him around because then he was 21. I could take him out in this really cool college town and maybe introduce him to some girls or friends or new interests, something that might get him out into the sunshine or just maybe garnish a little more interest in life. My husband travels a lot so it was just the two of us hanging out and he connected with some of my friends and I mean I brought him to parties and when I was freaking out because I didn't know anybody he was cool as a cucumber and could walk up to people and just start a conversation.

I just remember being over at a party once. I looked over my shoulder and he's in the corner with a drink in his hand with like four girls standing around him and they're all laughing. And he's just completely in the zone. And I thought, where did that come from? Like, is this just like blossoming all of a sudden? And then I just, you know, you don't think anything of it. I just thought, okay, yay, he's doing awesome. Good for him. And how long was that?

It was like a few months, right? He came down at the beginning of November that year. And then he left right around New Year's with the idea that he was going to come back and take a permanent position. And then at the very last minute, he sent me a message. Hey, thought you'd heard I decided not to take the job. So that's when I realized, OK, you're going to make your own life choices. Have at it. Kind of left it at that.

But not too long after that, that's when my grandfather got really sick. And he ended up in the hospital before he finally passed away. And he ended up in the hospital before he finally passed away. But that was a good 11 days that we were all sitting in that hospital room. So we spent a lot of time in the hospital watching my grandfather pass away, just sort of talking. I think that's when I really opened up to him. So I got all mushy on him. You know, when you watch somebody pass away, I was like, you know, you're like a brother to me. This is, this is really important. I'm so glad you're here.

A few years go by. Faulkner is in college studying internet security. In 2016, you get a text or a Facebook message from him saying, hey, I want to come. Yeah, totally rando. We really hadn't even spoken that year. It was kind of out of the blue. July, I want to say. He says, hey, what's up? I got my tax return and I want to come down and see you

and the kiddos. My kiddos were very close the time. So it was a handful. And I'm thinking, okay, cool. I haven't seen him in forever. I was just pumped. I thought, oh my gosh, he's growing up. He wants to come back down and hang out. I just jumped on it. Yeah, come on down.

I'll get your room ready. Let me know when you're going to be here. We'll pick you up. No problem. So he shows up. We hang out as usual. He's sort of back to his old schedule, but I'm like, dude, I have two babies now. They get up at the butt crack of dawn. And if you want to hang out with us, you're going to have to get up. Plain as that. Yeah, cool. No problem. So I was really surprised he was actually getting up. No problem. Hanging out with the kiddos, helping, still doing his thing. You know, it was still Ben. He was having meals and engaging, but it was,

he still had his little laptop moments. Can't even call them moments. They're like long lapses. Was he doing that around you guys or he'd go into his room? Always. He was always on a laptop. I always joked that I always recognized the bridge of his nose and his eyes and his forehead because all the lower half is just always covered by a laptop. He just always had a laptop

in his face, always. My husband was gone most of this visit, so it was me and Ben in the evenings. And that's when we'd hang out and talk and watch Stranger Things. Anytime he got too close to him when he had his laptop, he'd grab the top and bend it towards his chest. And I'd be like, dude, I don't... He's like, okay, I'm treating him like a brother. I don't want to see your porn, dude. I don't want to see the boobies and stuff on your computer. And he's like, ha ha ha.

And I was like, no, really, it's probably like some stupid Minecraft, isn't it? And he's like, yeah. It was always one of those situations where I'd be like messing with him and he'd just roll with it effortlessly. just roll with it effortlessly. So one of these stranger things nights, I was like, screw this. I'm going to pry a little bit because nobody else does. So I'm like, what the hell are you doing? And then I just sat there and listened about a forum he'd created he was the moderator he was the big kahuna and it was amusing to him that he had x number of followers and he could post puzzles that he called them and they would scramble. I think that's the word he used. They would scramble to solve it because the first one to solve it would get a prize.

And I remember thinking, Ben, that's stupid. Is this for money? What's the prize? And he was like, that's stupid is this for money what's the prize and he was like it's a picture i made like another puzzle and it leads to another puzzle and i was like okay and he was just go back to the I mean, it really amused him to have people rushing to do his command. It's still, it just creeps me out in retrospect. Little things that you kind of go, huh. and then you don't know why it's just that energy i wish i could explain it better it's the same energy i felt when he wanted to take her down to the pool to go swimming. And I'm thinking, cool, lifeguard, safe. But that, huh, in me made me literally sit at the window with the window open, shouting down to them as I was folding laundry. I couldn't just leave them alone. And it wasn't because I suspected he would do anything. It's just because my own insecurity, it didn't matter who it was.

You also mentioned something about, I think he wanted to buy one of your kids a toy or something. Oh, that's right. That's right. We were going to get some goggles um, some goggles so that he could give them to her. I think I even paid for them. I was like, here, I'll let you give them to her and she'll think that's really cool. So yeah. Um, yeah, we went and bought little toddler goggles so that they could swim together. little toddler goggles so that they could swim together. So yeah, those weird little tugs now, when I get them, you're damn right I pay attention.

Because there was a few that happened during that visit. Like, he wanted to give her a bath. He wanted to give her a bath. Your eldest. Yeah, he wanted to give the eldest a bath. And my first reaction with two kids this age, hallelujah, somebody wants to help me for a second and maybe I could go nurse the baby or change a diaper or something but I had that tug I had the

tug okay so the real need of our house is over here where we spend all of our time. You have such a beautiful home. Thank you. So Ben lived up here when he stayed with us. This was his room. This is my daughter's room. And then here is the bathroom.

This is my daughter's room. And then here is the bathroom. I remember leaving the baby and I kind of rushed upstairs. And they were just turning the faucet on. But I rushed to the top of the stairs and then snuck the rest of the way to the bathroom door. Because I was like, hmm, it's just weird. You want to know how people are interacting with your child when they don't know I'm around. And I remember like sort of sneaking.

And I just heard them talking totally innocently. And I sat there and just sort of waited. And everything seemed fine. Honestly, everything seemed fine. And that's when I made myself known. Hey, guys, I'm here. So did he end up giving her a bath? Yeah. I mean, I was there.

He was in the room talking to her and interacting kind of in and out. I'm like, hey, can you go grab me this? I'm up and down the stairs because I'm grabbing the baby. If they were alone, it was for 20 seconds, 15 seconds, long enough to turn around and grab the laundry basket, long enough to grab the next diaper or pack of wipes. Then he left pretty abruptly, right? He did. He did. Yes. Um, he was talking to Patrick and he was like, you know, since I'm down here, I might swing over to Tennessee for the last couple of days of my break and go see my buddy. Are you sure you don't want to stay another day, dude? Like you're totally welcome. We have plenty of space here.

We have a swimming pool. The weather's great. One more night. What do you say? No, no, no, no. I got to get going. I really got to get going. So this is like a Facebook.

This is my phone pictures. Because I keep everything. But, you know, that was right when he first arrived. I've got one kiddo just mindlessly in a diaper. And you can see how little they are. Yeah, and there's Ben. That's him. Playing with the kids on the floor. Me and my babies.

That's my oldest. And then there's the goggles. Oh, the goggles, wow. Those are the goggles, and there he is crouching behind her. Huh. Yeah. He's holding after the pool and a towel. I'm sure this is kind of weird for you guys. I've never actually seen a lot of photos of him.

Oh, really? I've seen, you know, a couple that have been in the press clip. Well, after seeing like his mug and stuff, I bet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's not a lot of pictures of Ben. I got a lot, though. Oh. And then this is right before he left. We get up the next day. We take him to the airport.

So when we drop him off, my kiddo is in the back losing it. No ben and he looks at me from the curb and he goes oh my gosh my heart oh my heart i feel so bad and i'm like that's okay kiddos do this it's okay it's totally normal we'll see you soon. There'll be more visits. And that's that. We wave you bye and we pull out of the airport. And that's sort of it. That's July. And then when we have August, September, October was when it happened.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. So you're at home. You're here. Typical day. I've got my two kiddos and my phone rings. It's like 8 a.m. And my phone rings. It's like 8 a.m. And this gentleman says, I'm with Homeland Security and I'm headed to your house right now. Is your husband home? My husband was traveling. I think he was in the air at the time. And I'm thinking, there's a stranger on my phone wanting to know if I'm home alone.

And he says he's headed to my house. So I say, um, I'm sorry, can I get your number? I'm gonna have to call you back. So I call, I verify. That's when I'm like, holy crap, what is going on? So I call the guy back and I said, my husband is not here. Can you tell me what this is about? And he said, no, I can't. All I can tell you is that you're not in any danger. And I thought, okay, that's bizarre. When is your husband going to be there? And I said, well, probably towards the end of the week, I could schedule something.

I'm kind of like freaking out. to see into the week I could schedule something. I'm kind of like freaking out. So I have to wait from Monday until Friday wondering. And then my husband's coming in and he says, we have no idea what's going on. These people are not coming to our home. So let's meet them somewhere neutral. I call the sitter and we head over to the little diner down the street. We pull up and my heart's sort of pounding, right? And we pull in and this guy's looking real serious with his shades on. He's got his pickup truck. He looks like he's been doing some long hours and he introduces himself, does the quick badge flip and he says you know I have another agent inside waiting we have a

table and we'd like to talk to you about some things so he'll look at each other and we're kind of like Twilight Zone okay let's do this they were already here like they were set up and ready and waiting for us to sit down it was bizarre to me that they already had a table on this private side and that's when i started getting nervous like what the hell is happening? What's about to happen? And the blonde lady is sitting there. She introduces herself. I believe her name was Angela. And you know you're not really paying attention at this point.

You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's get to the point here. JB was sitting on the left. Angela was on the right. And she just had such a look of concern on her face. So JB says, do you know Benjamin Faulkner? And I say, yeah. And my brain instantly goes, what the hell did this kid hack into? What did he hack into?

I really was expecting them to just say like he was goofing off and hacked into some server he wasn't supposed to be in. And I almost didn't hear what he was saying because I was gonna hear Ben hacked into blah blah blah and we going to give him a slap on the wrist. Like this is truly what I'm expecting, but the words coming out, I can't even tell you what he said. I can't even tell you. So then he looks over to Angela, and she thumbs through this massive folder, like two inches thick. It's a big manila folder.

And she kind of opens it and thumbs and pulls out this image and says, is this one of your children? And I was like, holy shit. What has he done? And your brain is still like thinking, he hasn't done anything to my kids yet. Like the visual forced me there. Like whether I want it to be or not.

Because you're like, that's your playroom floor. That's your baby's clothes. That's their toys. That's their stuff. That's my house. And then another photo comes out and it's up in the bathroom. That's the bath mat. Those are the bath toys. Probably moments before I peeked around the corner or moments after. Who knows? They kept saying, he says he showed restraint. So you're grasping for anything that makes you feel like

you've got a foot on the ground right okay if he showed restraint then my kids are okay right your brain is still going my kids are okay my kids are okay something else has happened he's done something really bad we're okay everything's but it's it's like people are telling you that stuff's not okay and that something happened you're like like, no, but I was there. Everything was fine. You don't think of this type of abuse. Being so silent and sneaky and it's bizarre. Your brain just does not know how to compute that.

I'm still thinking this like, whoa, okay. Whoa, Ben's a pedophile. Ben is a pedophile. And then it just kept going further like it as you're still trying to process it just goes another step and we need you to go home and get the kids because we have an appointment set up for you at child protective services for a forensic interview for your oldest and i'm looking at them like my oldest doesn't even know what her bottom is how are we gonna do this she she has a pacifier and a blankie like so you really weren't sure about what he had done with your kids no no and at that moment like that sort of began the complete trajectory change for my life. Because it was a family thing. It was in my home, my safe space.

It was inside. It was my emotions that I had shared with him and exposed. And yeah, how do you describe the moment your core is blown apart by another person. So I came home and, you know, scoop up the babes, blankies, binkies in the car seats over to the other side of town. I met us outside again. There's like a team of people waiting for you and they already know everything that you just found out. So you're looking at everybody almost suspiciously like, what do you know about me and my kids and what's happened here? And then all of these people are like coming at you. Are you okay?

Do you need anything? Do you have any questions? Well, no, I don't have questions yet because I still have no idea what's going on. We get an advocate. They hand me the folder. And that's when I'm like, they have folders for this. Like this is a pre-packaged little folder with brochures for victims of family sexual abuse. And you're still thinking like, this is still not, it's still not real to me. Like what is happening here?

year. So it was terrifying, but they took my eldest out of this waiting room that we were sitting in. Like this lady came in and they just took her. And having a toddler, you want to put a bubble around them. And here's like all of these strangers taking my nonverbal little baby to ask her questions about what Ben may have done to her. She was gone for like half an hour. It felt like a really long time. It was at least enough time for me to nurse the baby and like pace the room at least 20 times and um I had this overwhelming feeling like do they blame me because I exposed my kids to him and then they brought her back and then they brought her back.

They handed, they gave the kids teddy bears, like, okay, thanks. I don't want this in my home. No offense, guys. But I remember driving home and just being sort of numb. And it wasn't over yet. Child services needed Jen to book a second appointment. This time for a physical examination. So we scheduled the exams

and I'm thinking we're just going in for a visual. So we show up and Angela's there, the blonde agent, and they take us to the exam room and Angela pulls the doctor out and they're whispering. And the doctor comes back in and motions to my husband. And my husband leaves the room. And I'm sitting there holding the baby. And I'm like, now what?

So they come back into the room, just the doctor. And she has this look on her face. Like this look of pity. And she has this look on her face, like this look of pity. And she says, we've gotten some new information. Ben is admitted to attempting oral sex with one of the children. And we need to do blood and urine samples to check them for STDs. And that was it for me. That was the moment where I said, Are you fucking kidding me?

Restraint my ass. so the first thing I did was I cleaned out my checking account painting and stripping everything upstairs I hired painters like normally I will get up on a ladder and tape everything. I like to do that kind of stuff. But this was like now, now transform this space. I didn't want to be in my child's bathroom wondering what happened here. I needed it to feel like a different bathroom. Like this was not the space that Ben was in. I did everything I could think of. I bought all kinds of sage. I left the windows open. I prayed to my dead grandfather.

I did everything. I mean, drapes came down, sheets were burned. It was my therapist who recommended that I do it. But I just, I wadded those sheets up and we went to Home Depot we bought one of those cheap little fire pits and I I threw everything on the ground first and I stomped and I screamed I screamed at the sheets like it was him. And then I stood there. I watched it burn for a long time. And I just fell to my knees and sobbed.

Because I knew it wasn't over. It wasn't going to take it away. It was just symbolic. symbolic. It's, it was a lot. It was a lot for that time. Broke me for a while, for sure. Ben Faulkner and Patrick Fawlty were sentenced in September 2017. This was for sexually assaulting the four-year-old girl in Manassas, Virginia. Jen was at the hearing. She was a witness for the prosecution. What prompted you to want to make a victim impact?

It took me some time to get to that point and even leading up to the victim impact statement, I was still like, I don't know if I can do this or not. Like with here, like speaking to y'all, it's one of those deals where I felt this tug. If you don't do this, you're going to regret it. This is your chance. And, um, I didn't understand it until I actually did it. You really do feel like you're getting some of your power back because you're in a courtroom he can't argue you just get to say how it affected you and that's really powerful if you can muster the it's probably the scariest thing I've ever done.

I was basically sitting there trying not to have a panic attack. But it's just like on TV. Like, federal court is all business. Wood paneling, floor to ceilings. Everything is very official with the seals. Oye, oye, all of it. And then he came in, shackled with the orange jumpsuit. And he looked exactly the same.

You were expecting somebody to look awful and like, Ben looked like Ben. The long, greasy hair was back and it was just him with the orange jumpsuit. jumpsuit. I got up and I walk up to the box and of course I'm like shaking and I took my knees and I turned them towards the judge because I didn't trust myself not to turn my head and look at Ben because I knew that as soon as I looked at him, whether we made eye contact or not, I was going to crack. I wasn't going to be able to do it. So I went into game mode, did what I had to do, sat back down and then felt like, did that just happen? And I remember asking my husband, did I read the whole thing or did I just freak out and sit down? And he's like, no, you did it. And everybody was like patting me. They were like, that was amazing. And I know there were people like crying and I don't remember any of it. I went back down and sat down and then, and then they gave him the

opportunity to speak. Do you have anything you want to say? Ben sat back in his chair and he went, With that tone, I am not kidding you guys. No, I'm good. And that was also shocking to me. No remorse. Patrick was very apologetic. He knows, like he fucked up. You can tell he feels remorse. He was apologizing to his parents and his family.

He was apologizing to the family of the kiddo. And then my dick relative has the gall to just go, nah, I'm good. It just makes my skin crawl. Especially after hearing what I had to say. Have I ever gotten an apology or a letter or anything? Nothing. Benjamin Faulkner and Patrick Fawlty were both sentenced to life in prison.

How does it make you feel that some of those pictures of your kids are out there in perpetuity? Because these forums get shut down and other ones pop up. What's that like for you? I mean, it pops up in your mind in those quiet moments. Oh yeah, that's floating out there. The Australian police ran the site for 11 months and had to mimic Ben and his messages, which included an image or video.

How do you feel about the cops running a honeypot trap for 11 months and having to put on images to make it a legitimate site. Did you see how many they caught? Operation Artemis led to the arrest of at least 200 child sex offenders. I love that. The images are already out there. They're already there.

Why not utilize this and catch more of these guys? Like, I'm all for it. My kids' images, yes, they're among there. That's horrible. But holy moly, if we can catch that many people doing this, catch them. That many people doing this? Catch them. Catch them.

Because when you abuse these babies, you change their lives forever. They don't get a say. I'm, yes, do it. I can't even imagine somebody saying, don't go after these guys with images that are already there. saying, don't go after these guys with images that are already there. When I read how many they caught, I was like, yes, they're angels. I will continue to call them angels. I know I was sitting next to Paul in the courtroom. Jen is talking about Paul Griffiths, the investigator with Task Force Argos.

But I didn't know who he was. I know that I met him and I shook his hand and he was somebody who had helped us. But I did not grasp who he was. I get choked up thinking about him. He's like an angel that I didn't even know. It's gratitude. That's why I'm choked up. It's gratitude. And I wish that I'd known

so that I could have relayed that a little better. When I read the article and like saw his picture and like realized that's who it was, I was like, oh my gosh wow wow they're like rock stars to me it's like yeah amazing what they do take a breath Without this type of work and the cooperation of international police agencies, Warhead would still be online. And Ben Faulkner would still be free. What if he'd come back?

Not what if. He was going to come back. I cared for him. I trusted him. But when you give family members this implicit trust with your children, it's... Oh, that's why this violation is so... I wish I had a word for it because it's he didn't break me I mean I was for a while but uh I feel like a warrior now honestly I really do especially coming out of that victim impact statement.

I remember the first time I looked in the mirror, I looked like a different person to myself, if that's believable. I remember looking in the mirror like, who is that fierce lady? I didn't know I could do that. That's good. Thank you for everything. Yeah, safe travels. Yeah, you bet. Thanks. I interviewed Jen in the spring of 2019,

and I've kept in touch with her and her family ever since. I'm not sure I'd have the courage to publicly share such a traumatic experience. But Jen believes it's important to let other victims and survivors know they're not alone, that they have nothing to be ashamed of, and that by speaking out, it makes it harder for predators like Ben Faulkner to get away with what they've done. But I'm still stuck with that central question. It's something Jen and I have spent a lot of time discussing since we first spoke.

Why? Why would someone do this? What led Ben Faulkner to become Warhead? How do you stop other men from taking the same path? To begin to understand that, I'd need to talk directly to Warhead. This is a prepaid call from an inmate at the Davies County Detention Center. Hello? Hi. Hunting Warhead is written and produced by Chris Oak and me, Damon Fairless. Thank you. Original music by Olivia Pasquarelli. The senior producer of CBC Podcasts is Tanya Springer,

and our executive producer is Arif Noorani. Hunting Warhead is a co-production of CBC Podcasts and the Norwegian newspaper VG. Coming up on Hunting Warhead. I don't even know how else to explain it. It's like this existential misery that you know that you're never going to be who people think you are. I wouldn't necessarily trust that you're going to get 100% of the story. And you're never quite sure where they're going to draw that line in the sand of what they consider shameful or sick and what they don't. He kept telling me about the secret that he wanted to tell me

and I was excited to go to the Y to hear about the secret.