Uncover - S25 E7: Love, Vanessa | "Fantasy Meets Reality"

Episode Date: March 31, 2024

When the fish met the bait. Roberto has a broken heart and lost thousands of dollars to scammers. Vanessa had her images stolen by scammers and her life fell apart. An emotional finale.For transcripts of this series, please visit here.

This is a CBC Podcast. A BBC World Service and CBC Podcast production. Before we start, please note this series contains adult themes and strong language. I am logging into my Gmail to see if we can find this guy. Okay, here we go. Vanessa sits cross-legged on her oversized blue couch, laptop perched on her knees. Hi, I have the need to talk with the Rio Janessa Brazil.

Is the email managed by her or from someone else? She's reading an email we asked her to look for, a message from Roberto Marini sent in 2016. I replied, I am the real Janessa Brazil. This was like an hour later. Is you the person in this Yahoo video chat? I've never used Yahoo before. So, and then he sent another one. And in this second video call too. Sosia. So that was a widely used name for me.

Sosia. I remember that name. Vanessa tells me she doesn't remember this exchange. She says she's had so many like it. An email out of the blue from a stranger who thinks they know her. Whether that's Sosia or Shirley, Janessa or Vanessa. They ask convoluted questions based on a life and relationship that doesn't actually include her. Despite the disconnect and inconvenience, Vanessa seems to care. She says she can't and doesn't answer all the emails now. There are just too many. And they keep landing in her inbox.

Some days, it's like a light rain. Some days, full downpour. When she does answer, Vanessa takes time to figure out what they're asking and why. I replied on the same day at 11.23 a.m. And let's see. I did say it same day at 11.23 a.m. And let's see. I did say it's a recorded video. They're using it to scam you, so I did answer his question. Roberto and Vanessa are strangers who live an ocean apart.

They've never met before, but their lives are intertwined in a very deep, if indirect, way. You'll recall Roberto was in love with a version of Vanessa for years. He believed they had a true connection. He sent her affection and money. He says it was $250,000 in total. He travelled the world hoping to rescue her from a life of camming so they could be together. But Vanessa wasn't actually on the receiving end of those grand gestures or bank transfers. She was everything to him. He was nothing to her.

When we found out we were going to meet Vanessa, we reached out to Roberto. We wanted to know if he had a message to share with the real Janessa Brazil. He said he needed to think about it. He wasn't sure what he'd say to her. Then he sent us this note. After thinking last night about what question I would ask, two only have came in my mind. One is if she would be okay with having a talk with me for a few minutes just to hear each other voice and share some closure about all of this. And the second one is if she would ever decide to visit Sardinia and meet me for one day.

So two requests. And Vanessa's response? me photo one late. So two requests and Vanessa's response? The answer to question number two, no, I'm not willing to meet. Obviously I'm human. So I understand the need for closure. And if I can provide closure to somebody about the situation and it doesn't take anything for me to just say hello to him on video. I will do that for him, absolutely. From CBC Podcasts and the BBC World Service, my name is Hannah Ajala and this is Love, Janessa. The story of my wild quest to find the woman whose face and body is the bait used in catfishing schemes around the world.

Episode 7. Fantasy meets reality. Now that I have a better grasp of Vanessa's story and the evolution of Janessa Brazil, there are some facts that I need to confirm. I do have a few follow-up questions to ask Vanessa. Okay. Have you ever scammed anyone online? No. No. There are also details from Roberto and Simon's stories that I want to address. Have you ever lived in Ghana?

No. Was your father ex-Brazilian military? No. You've never been to Italy? Nope. Never been to that side. Never been to Europe. Have you ever been to Toronto in Canada? Never, never been up there. The closest to Toronto I've ever been was in Vermont. Then I ask Vanessa if she's ever heard of Sakawa boys. Why does it sound familiar? I tell her what I've learned about the Sakawa subculture in Ghana. The groups of mostly young men who trade handbooks, names and images and create fake profiles to dupe their victims. How some Sakawa boys make a living this way. The most successful ones live flashy lifestyles and even have high status in their communities.

You've got to be kidding me. I didn't know it was a business. I thought it was just like random people. As I've discovered, there's nothing random about Sakawa. They're involved in hyper-organized crime rings. And while Roberto was caught up in the Genesis games, he sent money to Ghana. Hannah, the first woman he met online,

told him she was living there for a while. To me, this sounds like a crime. he sent money to Ghana. Hannah, the first woman he met online, told him she was living there for a while. To me, this sounds like a crime. Someone impersonating Vanessa's alter ego took money in her name. So I have another question for her. Did she ever go to the authorities to report someone who used her image to scam people? No, because what are they going to do?

They're going to look at me and they're like, you're a porn star, and laugh at my face. We've got better things to worry about. I want to tell her she's wrong, that she should report the crimes. Scammers should be held responsible for all of the drama, nuisance, and heartbreak they've caused, not to mention the money they've stolen. But she feels she has no recourse. This is something that Vanessa has in common with Roberto.

Both have been unwitting parties, playthings for criminals. Hi! Can you hear me okay? It's been three months since our first interview with Vanessa and since she agreed to a call with Roberto. I have my dog here, so excuse if he's like jumping on me, you know how he gets. Like so many parts of this story, it took a while to get here. Calendars, technical difficulties. I kept waiting for one of them to back out.

So I'm relieved when all of the faces appear on the video call. My producer Laura manages the introductions. So Roberto is here. This is Roberto Marini. Hi. Hi, Roberto. How are you? I'm very good, thanks. And you? Ah, good. Look at you. Very handsome. Thank you.

Roberto's at home in Sardinia. It's nighttime there. He sits back in his chair, still sporting an animal print cowboy hat, after spending the day harvesting grapes in a vineyard. Vanessa's at home too, in her small town in the US. She's curled up on her living room couch. I'm in London. Hi, Hannah. Nice to see you again, Vanessa.

What a reunion. I know, right? We'll call it that. This is something. Something very special, actually. Yeah, it is. I'm excited. I'm nervous, a little nervous, but I'm very excited. Just relax and breathe deeply.

Yeah, that's a good one. Thank you. I love the accent. You do. I do. Roberto looks calm but focused, ready to launch into this moment that's been years in the making. It's very interesting for me to finally have had the possibility not only to see in real time Vanessa itself,

because after all that has happened, it has always been something that in my heart was a true desire. So I want to thank you for real to be right now physically dedicating this time to make this possibility become a reality. As Roberto speaks, I can see Vanessa begin to relax

like she'd been holding her breath and just remember to exhale. I do want to start this off by saying, I truly am sorry that you went through what you went through. I know the pain is not the same, but it was painful for me too. It is not, it's not okay for that to happen. So I truly do apologize from the bottom of my heart. And that's why I'm here. I just want to put a smile on your face and kind of give you some kind of closure so you can move on. You can be aware and know that I feel okay. Okay.

And I really want you to be able to feel okay as well. Then Roberto takes a moment to reflect on how and why he became the victim of such a long con. For me, obviously, it has been a situation that has caused a lot of stressful situations. The whole thing was like a continuous fight, even with my family or with my friends. Even if maybe other people would actually warn me about like, just get to check everything properly, don't fall for this. I would just keep going on it, you know.

I wanted to get to the bottom of it because it's not even possible for my own self to let something undone. It's hard to reconcile this Roberto with the man who sent thousands of messages and hundreds of thousands of dollars to a woman who doesn't exist. The man who pleaded with her to quit camming and start a new life with him in Italy. This Roberto seems so clear-eyed, so measured. He sits noticeably still throughout the meeting, like if he moved, the moment might cease to exist. Regardless of everything that has happened, I am grateful because I have learned so much,

not only for my own self, but also for all the connections and relationships that I had, and even the ones that I am experiencing right now, because I truly know that it's possible to communicate heart to heart, even with someone that has never been able to be physically one in front of the other. You do learn from these unfortunate experiences. That's part of life. And I just feel like I definitely learn about myself too.

So it's just kind of looking at the positive light. It's strength, the one that I gained after all these years and after all these situations and all the time and all the energy. And it came from the fact that I could actually feel love within myself. And it was because of you. Because of you. You made it happen for yourself. It takes was because of you. Because of you. You made it happen for yourself. It takes a lot of strength. You got to dig deep, you know, but you're there. You just got a permanent grin on your face, a permanent smile. And it

just makes me feel really good. I wasn't sure how I was going to find you today. Like, you know, how you felt. And I'm very pleasantly surprised. Usually I don't come across these meetings, you know, about the situation. Of course you don't. With someone that has a smile on their face and has found happiness. So it's a breath of fresh air.

It's a blessing for me right now. I'm telling you, it's something that I have been dreaming about for years. I could be watching a movie unfold, scene by scene. But these aren't characters. They're real people who've suffered in different ways and are now healing. It's all going so well.

But then there's a shift in the conversation. Roberto has a question he wants to ask. This video is a message from a little boy named Salman. He disappeared five years ago in Syria during the war to defeat ISIS. He still hasn't been found. My name is Poonam Taneja. I'm travelling to Syria to find out what happened to Salman and the thousands of children like him,

lost in one of the most dangerous places on earth. From BBC Sounds and CBC podcasts bloodlines listen wherever you get your podcasts I just have one question that may sound stupid but this is for you it's really the first time that you actually get to talk with me and see me and there has never been any kind of connection within messages between me and you in the past. Despite evidence to the contrary, does Roberto still believe that he once had a relationship with Vanessa? That maybe the relationship was real? Vanessa's caught off guard. Um, I, I don't know. I think Hannah,

did we, did we look for the email from him? The email Vanessa's referring to is the one and only exchange from Roberto that she found in her inbox. Someone was using a piece of my private show or like a member show and they cut that a piece out of it but it was me in the video but you weren't speaking to me you know it was a recording so that's what it was other than that email one of hundreds she sent to the scorned men in her inbox. She says she'd never contacted him. And any proof he thinks he has, that was faked by scammers. So no, Vanessa doesn't have a past with Roberto. Roberto spent so much time among photos, videos,

messages that featured Vanessa's face on body. It's like she imprinted on him. He believed his own eyes. that featured Vanessa's face on body. It's like she imprinted on him. He believed his own eyes. Underneath his big cowboy hat, Roberto sits with this reality for a moment, frowning a little. Eventually, he nods.

Okay. After an awkward pause, I asked Vanessa how she'd felt as she was getting ready for this conversation with Roberto. I'm going to be completely honest. I had like a little panic attack because I'm so used to having such a negative outlook in regards to this situation. And I haven't been on camps in so long. So I didn't know the reaction that I was going to get from Roberto.

And I was shaking and I wasn't feeling very well. But I knew this needed to be done, not only for him, but for me as well. It's part of the process, as they say. This is definitely a healing process.

So that's how I felt. Roberto, how does it feel like seeing Vanessa on screen right now? A blissful sensation. Because it's something that, as I said, I always envisioned for so long. That right now, having it manifested, even if it's just because, as I said, I always envisioned for so long that right now, having it manifested, even if it's just because of this situation, and I may not be talking with her ever again in my life, it's something that really got me into the position within myself to say, okay, I finally am seriously seeing and talking with the person I thought I was talking to

all this time. Oh, here it is. It happened. You manifested it. If you had a message for people who have been in a position like Roberto's, what would you say to them? The first thing I would say to them, be aware. If something doesn't feel right, possibly is not right, do your research. toters, what would you say to them? The first thing I would say to them, be aware. If something doesn't feel right, possibly is not right, do your research. I was just telling this to one of my friends the other day. Love is blind. Don't send money to somebody you've never met. You know, I don't care if you bet online or a video can be fake. Everyone is smart. But when it comes to love, we can be so dumb. I know I've been there. I kicked myself in the butt, you know, it's like, damn, I'm smarter than this.

So it happens to all of us. With all the information and the accessibility that we have right now on the world internet and the world infrastructures that we have developed, it's very easy to detect that something is real or not. But right now, all those people that have been kept in a naive state, like myself, for example, may still fall for that. Because you can actually be fully, deeply in love, even with someone that you have never met physically. And that love is seriously healing for not only the one that is experiencing it,

but also for the one that is receiving it. Because directly or indirectly, you actually got my love. Aww. The call is starting to wind down but Roberto has a few more questions for Vanessa and he takes his chance He knows he might not get another Something that I actually had always talked about

like how is she really feeling about all this catfishing and all this stuff that is going on It's very sad I have like PTSD, you know, I'm very traumatized. I didn't want to get on cam anymore. I didn't want to do anything with it anymore because it was just so depressing to encounter these gentlemen going through these things and being so angry. And I did understand. I could feel their bad energy through the videos, through the cam and it was growing like cancer inside of me.

I just couldn't take it anymore. So I completely quit. Then Roberto asked something that's clearly been nagging him for a very long time. Have you ever thought that those kind of situations have presented themselves because of the lifestyle and the choices that you have made in your life? You know, when I first started doing Janessa, this whole scamming thing wasn't anything like the way it is today. This whole scamming thing wasn't anything like the way it is today. When it started to happen, I thought it was just going to blow over.

It just got worse and worse and worse. I was just doing my job, what I had to do. It wasn't a lifestyle. It was a job. It was like I went to work, came home. I was a different person. I did what I had to do to make my money. I had a whole separate life. I was married. I owned a house. I had dogs. I had a normal life, completely different from the online person. Are there some things I could have done

differently? Maybe. But it just grew to be a monster of a thing. At that point, there was no going back. I accept and respect the fact that you say it wasn't a lifestyle, it was a job. But a lifestyle contains also the job that you make. Because it makes part of your time being used as a way to express a part of yourself. Right. But most people don't have an alter ego on their job. I had to be a different person, completely different than a normal person.

So I had to be careful to not let Janessa become Vanessa or vice versa. You know, my ex-husband didn't marry Janessa. He married Vanessa. So I needed to stay conscious as to not have both of them mixed together. You were never in my shoes. You don't know what I had to do to survive or the work I had to do. So unless you walk in my

shoes, you can tell me all day long what I could have done and I couldn't have done. This is Vanessa. Vanessa has panic attacks. Janessa doesn't. Do you see what I'm saying? Janessa does that. Do you see what I'm saying? Few victims of online romance scams have the chance to resolve the messy and deceitful relationships they get caught up in. But Roberto says he's come to terms with his scamming journey. Finally, I can have really the last step of this whole chapter of my existence to be fully understood. Because it's something that I was really longing for from so much time.

Right now, knowing that, I can be sure that from the other side of the world there, there is a person that can accept the fact that regardless of everything, there is nothing really to worry about or to be scared of, but that you can be sure that, from me at least, you will never get ate. They've been talking for over an hour and the conversation has come full circle. I usually get to the stage where they are in denial,

angry and in denial. For you, you've made peace with it. And here you are, a better man. It's definitely heartwarming for me. So I do appreciate meeting with you today. I am thankful to you so much. I'm glad we got to do this. All right, hon. Bye-bye.

Bye-bye. Have a great day. Vanessa's gone, but Roberto doesn't hang up right away. He's beaming. I hope you can feel it and see it. I'm just happy about all of this. I am really grateful. I can feel that right now, probably the weight on their shoulders

is lifting away a little bit more. And I am really happy for that. These two people really have went through something. What really happened in the life of these two people? What the heck did they go through? Hair parts made me realize even today how difficult it has been for her. Way more than I thought. Because in some moments, like I was feeling tears,

even during the call, like sensation of overflowing emotions, trying to move on. I felt that in my conversations with Vanessa too. She's matter of fact when she talks about how the stream of scams has affected her life. But the depth of the hurt breaks through from time to time, and you can see the toll it's taken. When I first spoke with Roberto all those months ago,

I had serious doubts about whether we'd ever find Janessa Brazil. I also didn't know who my producers and I were searching for beyond the obvious. The adult entertainment star who'd unwittingly become an online girlfriend to so many. But we were compelled to keep searching. And everyone we came across was searching too. Searching for connection, for intimacy, for the human touch in the digital space. Maybe that's a complicated way of saying this turns out to be a love story of sorts. The victims, many isolated and longing for affection, put themselves out there to find the one.

They're willing to see the good, believe what their hearts crave, despite the fields of red flags all around them. The Sakawa boys, unlike the other scammers, many live on the margins with limited opportunity. Some do it for money and status, some to support their families. They know the fuel that runs the scams is that search for love. And Vanessa, the bright kid from Brazil who

survived a difficult childhood, dreamed of a glamorous existence and used the internet to make it happen. She uploaded her life and she bore some of the repercussions, good and bad. But Vanessa says that shouldn't be surprising, especially when you're living and working at the outer limits of the human desire for connection. That's what love is. You know, love is not safe. You're just going to either dive in or not do it at all. So I don't do things half-ass.

I do everything full-ass. So if I'm not willing to love someone full-ass, I'm not going to give them half love. What's the point of that? That's not fair. Vanessa's literally working on her next chapter now. She's writing a memoir and training to become a therapist, which seems fitting.

She certainly has a lot of experience to draw on and share. Near the end of our interview, I asked whether she'd ever get her website up and running again as a way to make some money. Her response wasn't one I expected, but probably should have. I hate taking pictures. I hate taking selfies. I always did, but I had to for work. I can barely get a picture of myself now. My friends are like, come and take a picture. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm good.

You guys take a picture, I'll take a picture of you. But I hate taking pictures. Unless I really have to. Lucky for her, she doesn't have to take pictures anymore. Love Janessa is produced by Antica Productions and Telltale Industries for the BBC World Service and CBC Podcasts. I'm Hannah Ajala. Our producers are Katrina Onstead and Laura Regehr. Associate producers are Hayley Choi and Simona Ratta. Sound design and audio mix by Philip Wilson with help from Cameron McIvor. Executive producers are Stuart Cox and Jago Lee.

At CBC Podcasts, Emily Cannell is Coordinating Producer, Chris Oak is Executive Producer and Arif Noorani is the Director. At the BBC World Service, Anne Dixie is Senior Podcast Producer and John Manel is the Podcast Commissioning Editor. Our podcast art was designed by Natalie Weinberg Our cross-promo producers are Amanda Cox at CBC and Chris O'Connor at the BBC The CBC video producer is Evan Igard Special thanks to Simon de Bruyssel and Ben Asamoah At Antica Productions and Telltale Industries Development Executive Lisa Gabriel

Associate Producers, Zana Shami and Paula Santana. Development Consultant, Lena Presswood. Associate Sound Mixer, Cameron McIver. Additional Sound Design by Mitchell Stewart. At CBC Podcasts, Cecil Fernandez is Executive Producer. Tanya Springer is the senior manager of audience. Leslie Merklinger is the executive director. Everyone involved in the BBC World Service digital and social team. Cathy Derrick is the senior editorial policy advisor at the BBC World Service. Thanks for listening.